I sold all my hifi and spent the money on cables... They are amazing... Zero noise or distortion. My neighbour appoves of my purchase too. My wife is delighted how little space they take up.
Even after auditioning 3 separate AVR's, the same ambient sound of the room was still present! That told me the unwanted faint background signal noise I had been experiencing had nothing to do with the actual units. Therefore, my attention changed to the cables. And even then It was only on the third occasion after I finally purchased shielded cables that the noise floor within my small room finally came down to satisfactory levels. Cables often act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna. Probably explains why when I used to disconnect my heights and surrounds within 10 minutes, the faint background signal noise (RF/EMI) within my small room used to disappear/dissipate. The more cables I shield, the quieter my room becomes. In fact, the last group of cables I shielded were my HDMI's and Lo behold the room became slightly quieter again.. When friends came around, I used to show them how loud the system goes. Nowadays, I prefer to press pause and show them how quiet it goes. None of them gets it, of course 😂
You should try some decent speaker cables and power cables if your equipment is set up for it... you may be surprised, but as always, if another component is more of a "problem" ie: noise, grunge, just overall fuzziness you might not hear a difference. This might not be apparent to you if you don't know it is there, that is also an opportunity to try out some new gear and see if it is better.
@Weneedpeople power cables are snake oil they do not make anything measure differently or give anymore clean power than the stock power cord you're stereo equipment comes with. Speaker cables, yes, but they only really matter if they are not the same length.
@@timbabyfacesavage377your hearing doesn't' allow you to hear differences because they are there to hear. Firstly how long have you been involved with his end or good quality hi fi even this man was a doubter but is now reaccessing his stance also pays to have a complete cable loom to hear the largest difference and no it's not always better you have to experiment to find what suits your components
This a really helpful posting. I had never seen someone offer test results before, although I’ve watched a lot of TH-cam videos on the topic. It’s a tweak I’m considering. My [used] Music Hall MMF 5.3 came with the best pair of RCA I own, and they included directional arrows on them. They were supplied my the manufacturer, and shipped with the turntable originally. I intend to keep the price in the $100’s and not the $1,000’s. But then I thought I could build a decent system for $20,000. Passed that mark quite some time ago.
For speaker cable I use a double run of Kimber Kable 4VS to Bi-wire some Fyne Audio F502's sound is less muddy compared to regular copper cable. For interconnects I use Van Den Hul first ultimate mkii, these are carbon interconnects, sound is detailed yet not fatiguing. Plugs on the Van Den Hul are also very good and the cable contains a metal shield foil.
Power cables matter most, then interconnects, then spesker, then usb, then ethernet. I have a system bettering 1 million dollar retail system (all diy including the cables see "Doc Audio" videos on TH-cam for proof of this) and cables while I once felt the same as you, absolutely matter ONCE everything else is done like you pointed at (gear, setup, room treatment, ect)
I dropped my first comment about halfway through the video as I had to pause and go to work. You covered my question beautifully in the last half. Great analysis of a controversial subject, love your videos!
He thanked you, without knowing WHICH WAY you were thinking, as you were not clear about it. A reckless inference. Thats'better than what he did with me. He took my perfectly logical comment off. People who sensor almost always have a political agenda, and have a degree of serious phoniness about them. There are people a thousand times more qualified obviously, to speak about the merits of cables, and other things audio. When he meets one, he makes their comment disappear. He calls himself a scientist; I am beginning to HIGHLY doubt that. Real scientist are very curious minded and interested in any. interesting perspective or opinion. And they DON'T make reckless inferences. Was thinking of subscribing; but I don't think I'll waste my time on here. There are plenty of good audio channels, with less weirdoness.
BTW, pretty sure your comment is still there, dude! Also, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest, in the nicest way possible, maybe, you might want to consider, just saying: chill pill!
A few years ago I decided to try some Monster speaker cables. I had been using 16AWG stranded lamp cord for years. I did some A/B testing and like you I could hear some difference. I decided to stay with the Monster speaker cables. The most recent thing that I changed was going to Roger Russel's IDS-25 column speakers. That made a dramatic difference. I had been using AR-2Ax speakers in parallel with some AR-2Ax clones in parallel. I am using a Hafler DH-160 equalizer instead of the McIntosh equalizer that Roger had used in his system. I have a Dynakit PAS-3X preamp and Dynakit ST-70. I also changed cables between tuner and CD players, turntables to better quality cables. Much of the issues that I have with noise in my area are due to a FM station 4.5 miles from my house and Wi-Fi signals in my house plus LED lights etc. Shielding helps and some cables are better than others in that regard. There are so many sources of interference these days that solving interference issues is a daunting task.
I’m glad that you were open minded and took the careful time to do an actual comparison and did notice the difference. Between $100 and 200 spent on a cable is a sweet spot. As the fidelity of the system increases, the percentage difference of a cable upgrade will also increase. Cables will make a significant difference on a high fidelity system. Not so much on low fidelity or mid fidelity.
That's a great, honest take on cables. I know for sure that my "listening rooms" (my office and the den, ceiling fans in both) would need a lot of work before I would ever consider spending huge sums on cables. That said, I have started purchasing better cables to replace the old "freebie" cables that came with various components. A couple at a time seems to be a workable solution.
Also cables have better shielding. That helps. The one thing you should know. There's mega silly money cables. Why. Because there will always be people that buy them. Supply to demand.
A number of years ago I picked up a used book put out by Keithley tittled: Small Signal Measurements. One part of the book discusses wiring and cables. Keithley states that everything that goes into wiring and cables has an effect on the signal. Everything! Made for an interesting read.
Yes cables do matter and you are absolutely right that it depends on the rest of your gear if you can notice that difference, I think it is all about conductivity and shielding, old cables may have a bit of oxide on the outer layer and if i am correctly informed, electrons move across the shel of the conductor, so that would have an influence on the conductivity, Also, I love the Rickenbacker bass in the background, always wanted one of those, I love your content, greetings from the Nederlands
I've tried a lot of different cables cuz I'm obsessive. I've spent my way up to multi hundred dollar Audioquest Cables. When I had a sub $2000 system I was happy with Canare L-4E6S from World's Best Cables. It made sense to me to use what the recording studio probably uses, which is mostly Mogami and Canare. Synergy comes into play so I think it's worth it to try a couple $30ish cables to find what you like. It's great you found a measurable difference since some people claim there is none without actually measuring. With speaker cables I hear no difference which I think is because the higher voltage signal is more robust
Well, good luck finding an analog recording studio......................... Everything is digital now. In the entire massive studio chain, the only spot where analog is still used is from the microphones in or out to the headphones. And that's all XLR. Very few "bands" even coordinate for a "studio recording session" anymore. It's a bygone era.
@@TriAmpHiFi I don't doubt it is mostly digital now. Canare L-4E6S actually is an XLR cable but can be had wired single ended. I have no affiliation with the Canare or World's Best Cables. It's made in Japan, good enough for professional mic cable, and I liked the midrange better than the Mogamis or Belden I tried
@@TriAmpHiFiwhy go looking? Recordings start using digital in the late 70s... Digital have more users than the dying analog anyways. Not beating on it but thats the way the cookie crumbles
@@PlaybackMansion . Buying bulk multi-core cable & making custom single ended RCAs? I don't think recording studios are doing that either my fellow audiophile friend 🙂
It all true! I recently had a similar experience changing from monoprice 12 gauge speaker cable to Belkin 10 gauge. Could not hear or see a difference with audioquest hdmi cable.
Tank you, honest chat a bout music fans favorite fighting words. I have seen heated debate on that better cable thing, left me unimpressed you are right. So I am going to score some betta interconnects.
Quality interconnects and speaker cables matter to a certain extent in my experience. But it is nothing to go crazy about. A tiny inexpensive passive part of a ampfifier for example can have a way bigger impact on soundquality than a ridiculously priced interconnect or speaker cable. Just to give a rational perspective.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Well,i started with speakerbuilding (and construction) in the eighties and slowly added amp-renovation and where it looks promising also amp-tuning to the things a learned a bit about over time. BTW: Your line of thought i find always very traceable. 👍 So yeah,i abo`ed your channel some time ago. Good work. Oh, and OFC copper interconnect cables are imho the way to go. Im not that enthusiastic about silver tho. When i was young i could even hear if a OFC cable was connected the right way.....but now at over sixty,well aging kicks in and hearing doesnt get better with age.....😞
When choosing the 'right' cable, it's not just about quality, but also about the overall properties of the different materials and manufacturing philosophy. I have several cables that are all in roughly the same price range (around €300). There are clear differences in the sound that can't simply be described as 'better' or 'worse', but simply as 'different'. A silver cable, for example, definitely sounds different to a copper cable. And just as different components harmonize better or worse with each other, the same is true for certain components and cables. So it's a matter of taste which cable I choose... not necessarily a question of whether one is better than the other.
. But there is a type demonstrably better than the other type. Remember that the cable is only 1 part of the connection. All types include the plugs and socket outlets too but another type has DC powered PCBs attached to the outlets on both ends as well. Common mode rejection connections are less noisy than single ended. At best, a short $10K patchcord might equal a $30 XLR in certain circumstances. If patchcords are a concern for an upcoming system build, the direction to head from the start are components that include balanced connections. It's way cheaper in the long run, especially if planning on upgrading a chain over time. Getting stuck with single ended is a barrier to inserting upgraded components of a certain level. Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
You have a $500 preamp, a $400 CD player, whatever dollar that tube amp is... and a great pair of speakers.... adjusted for inflation, that system is easily 2K... in your system, you are under-cabled. This is a much more resolving system than most vintage gear and I, from experience owning or playing with, most of your equipment in the past that you are missing sound quality... also try the Micca speaker wire - cheap, but reported to be great wire for the money and (guessing) much better than what you are currently using.
It is a nice system. It helps that I built the power amp. 😁 I figured I was already overdoing it with the speaker cables by using 12 AWG. Some experimentation is probably on order. I might cover the concrete back wall first, though.
Great video and I appreciate the Analysis of the frequency response, harmonics, and your listing experience! If you really want to have some fun, grab a copy of Allen Wright’s Super Cables Cookbook, which goes into extensive detail about the theory behind Cable design and some easy do it yourself suggestions.
If you find that. Your signal conductor isnt big enough.make a custom twisted pair from lamp cord. Put your own ends on it. Or get a spool of belden.. and do the same.
I have found when it comes to experimenting with different audio equipment and accessories that I don't like to use the word better. I like to use the word appealing. Plus I have found i can really recognize the sound of my system when I'm listening but not trying to focus on the way it sounds if that makes any sense. Then make adjustments from there.
I am concerned more about reliability along with doing a good job. I still have entry level Audioquest interconnects from the ‘90s, and I use reliable speaker wires from Micca. Sounds fine with my “vintage” Nakamichi-Martin Logan system.
I want to use balanced outputs on one of my tables but I can't afford a phono preamp that has them. I think I will try a step up transformer first. I've got a few mc carts and 2 are low output. These are where cables really matter and I'm glad you brought it up. I got a set of what where supposed to be good cables but they where knock offs. So now I have a few sets of esoteric cables I got well used for a decent price. Panga and clear audio also these are what I use for the tables I have. I built 3 linns from bits I horded over the years. Along with an ariston rd11 so I got one pure linn and 2 scrapel decks one is even using the ariston motor and keeps time perfectly. That tells me that linn sondek did steal the design from Hamish who founded ariston. Sorry tangent over. I've made my Owen cables used shielded sliver wire from cardas as well as wiring up my best speakers and even though my other systems have a set of kef reference series 2 speakers and magnepan MG iiia speakers both are driven by bryston 4bs bridged and bi amped with a pair of hotrod hafler DH-200s. My reference system has a nakamichi pa5 mkii power amp driving a set of custom speakers that have usher woofers and planer tweeters that bested a set of byrilium tweeters with an nad preamp that has balanced outputs and ins thos setup has all silver wire and is just sounds so much better. All rooms have treatment as well though the reference system has it a bit better. I was surprised it made such a difference. So glad you had data to show the difference even if small. Small adds up. If you build a 100 foot wall and your a 1/4" off at 10 feet you will have a hell of a curve at the end. End of book😅
I have a nice system, I used to have some rather expensive cables in that system. I have gotten into a bind and needed to sell something... I sold my AQ $1300 balanced cables and my $1800 6-foot speaker cables... I have since installed my "back-up" cabling from Transparent and a little-known company called Audio-Tekne... these are nice cables - BUT - I am missing quite a bit of the sound my system used to have... realism... it still sounds great, just does not have the expansive soundstage and some of the detail it used to have. Hopefully once I am caught up and things go well in the future, I will be able to replace those cables - right now I just have to enjoy what I have. Cables make a difference but it is system dependent and should be one of the last things you tweak... Buy equipment, set it up properly, adjust room treatments... Live with decent cheap cables... then change out (borrow from a dealer) a cable at a time and see what works.
Speaker cables do make a difference but you don’t have to break the bank for great sound. The Micca 14awg pure copper cables are awesome and sound better than cables that literally cost in the thousands. They are $40 for a 12 foot pair. Check out the reviews and sound tests. You will be impressed and at that price why not give them a try?
Cables matter. Sometimes dramatically so. An Oehlbach NF 14 Master was horrible from my Adcom GPT-500 to my Sansui AU-317 power amp part. Much too bright. But from the CD-player tot the Adcom it was sweet. It is mix and match. Just do not use the shoe string and get some shielded cables. Cheap Goobay's are already better than free shoe strings. Just look at the used market for some brand cables, just to try. You'll pay 30 to 40 bucks and you can always sell it again for about the same amount. I got my Oehlbach's and AudioQuests that way.
One thing I want of good quality in the cables are connectors. Faulty cinch baked my speakers and I'm not willing to repeat this experience. That's why I don't want cables found on garbage pile. And stuff for $100 and more? Maybe if I want back of my cupboard looking stylish, sure, not that I would see it sitting in front :D
Cables fall under the tuning or tweaking category. Personally I have two principals when it come to that (purely for cost reduction reasons). In no order, try to do it your self and try to get something that is NOT made for audio. So a shelf comes from IKEA and was made to be a cutting board. And my phono cables are actually thermo-couple extension (or TC Type - N, thus dual copper) cables with RCA plugs (hard wired in the turntable because why not). In both cases the saving compared to alternative products made for audio are in the hundreds or even thousand %.
Non-coax cables will make a difference. Is it correct, or better. I suspect not. It looked like the other cable might be a quad conductor cable, originally designed for balanced audio rather than unbalanced single ended audio. I doubt you will see much difference between coax cables. But these other weird topologies, incorrectly used for unbalanced audio will be all over the map. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that.
In your system, I would (at least) try TWO AudioQuest Golden Gate RCA cables... one between the CD player and preamp, and the other between the preamp and amplifier... now THAT would be a test. I very much believe that it would be a great step forward for not much money, not as cheap as your Chinese silver-plated (maybe) copper wire (maybe) oxygen free (maybe) but with real metallurgy.
I suspect that the expensive thick RCA cables have lower capacitance between the inner conductor and the outer braid. That would make them sound different to the cheap cables at higher audio frequencies. Not worth the money in my opinion.
I upgraded my USB cable (yes, old school computer music player) from the AudioQuest Cinamon to Audience Front Row (bought used)… I had to sit down!!! Just blew it out of the water!
I am also very sceptical of the cable hype. From an electronic component point of view. You need to check the consistency of your samples. Like how much difference is there between samples using the same cable?
cabling my system of two loudspeakers, two subwoofers, pre, amp, and DAC cost around $400ish dollars. my runs are slightly long and none of the cables is "audiophile." the philosophy is "broadcast-standard" (Mogami XLR between analog devices, Blue Jeans cable to the speakers). is that expensive? i really don't think so, not compared to the total system cost around $11k. i have the feeling that i spent exactly enough 🤷🏾♂
This is like any other chain in the system generally more expensive electronics are made to a higher standard and are more revealing better built electronics the better signal transfer is needed so you can get the most out off your level of electronics,there are many criteria that effect signal flow education is the key as a electronic engineer I have studied all there is to learn about signal flow and simply quoting price is very childish,simply put better more accurate electronics need better transmission lines to achieve the absolute sound
First I love the styling of Adcom. Second You have access to your friends Cardas cables so you can freely have a cable orgy to see what a acardas Clear Beyond does for your stmystem and his..Then put your cables with his gear and discuss presentation, sound stagecdepth, and etc.
Never, NEVER, NEVER borrow equipment, speakers, cables to use in your system that you cannot afford or don't want to afford... if you like it, or love it... and you can't/won't buy it... your system will FOREVER suck, and you will know it. It is one thing to hear it at the store, to hear it at a friends house... but to hear it in YOUR room... trust me, that is bad.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi I'm going to give you a friendly challenge, and I think you'll find it interesting. Can you find some type of test or study done on audio cables, that meets real scientific standards, on any cable ever made?
That's just a guess, but couldn't good quality, shielded microphone cables be a good and not that costly solution for the connection of low voltage gear?
Maybe, but I have to admit I'm a bit wary of using shielded cables. That's based on my experience with RF and twinax. If the shielding wasn't grounded just right, with the grounding wire exactly perpendicular to the signal wire, then grounding the shielding was actually hugely detrimental. Moreover, perfect grounding yielded only a small benefit. This was with twinax carrying RF (134 kHz) over tens of meters. In the end we opted for leaving the shielding ungrounded rather than have a system that was sensitive to someone bumping the grounding wire out of position. That system was also complicated by the fact that the same cable was used for sending at high power and receiving at low power. I'm not saying you're wrong! Just that I was traumatized by how spooky that system was. If you're curious about what I'm referring to, see my other channel, "Geomorphdog."
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Thank you for giving a statement to my proposal, although it's kind of wasted on me, because my lack of insight into electronics. "I am Mad", a YT-Channel recommends in his latest Video, that the + and - of a shielded cable should be twisted together and connected to the +, and the shield connected to the -. He admits, that it's against common sense, but for him this would be the best way to go.
The big problem is that these snake oil vendors have them convinced there is something beyond wherever they are at the moment. It's the "New best thing ever" pitch and I can hardly believe anyone buys it, never mind the numbers that do.
"Snake Oil Saleman" if they really were that, never give free 30 day in home trials, and NO Questions asked money back guarantees. Even in THE OLD WEST! After selling their elixir which does nothing, they'd mosey on down to a far away enough town overnight. It doesn't make sense when someone says they're snake oil salesman. Complete nonsense and paranoia. Some of the prices are crazy though. But you usually do get something much nicer sounding in return though If you are not able to hear a difference; that's YOU. Other people DO hear a difference, whether they have far better perception or far better equipment or what have you. They are not brainwashed airheads, they are mainly doctors, lawyers, dentists, stock traders, musicians, and other professionals who can afford expensive cable and expensive gear. And yes, there are many places beyond, from the mundane sound quality that cheap unsophisticated & unadvanced equipment takes you. Vistas that doubters will never get to experience. Let's not pretend that more money can't buy you nicer things. Just because that is always not the case. Most of the time it is the case.
Did you measure the same cable playing the same note multiple times and compare differences? I would like to see a control in the experiment. Perhaps these are inherent differences from the speaker or environment. I think this would be worth testing. Fwiw, I am also willing to pay a slight premium for a better-looking and feeling cable. Also the quality of the terminations are important to me.
@AT-wl9yq He didn't measure an electrical signal(the cable) he recorded an audio sample(measured the speakers, room acoustics and everything in it,) something as small as being in the room and standing a single step out of place, in any direction could cause measurable differences. Temperature change, humidity, etc.) It would simply be a control for the experiment. If you measure the same cable several times, and have no measurable difference, you know with a greater degree of certainty that the changes you are observing are coming from the switching the cables out.(as opposed to any of the reasons I mentioned or others)
I have one listed on FB Marketplace, but I haven't offered shipping. If you're interested in an amp, we should chat via email: stephenDOTtDOTlancasterATgmailDOTcom
The cables from a TT are left and right channel not positive and negative. The ground is on a third wire so wtf is that guy talking on? Anyways it’s a DIN plug that improves sound, balanced is only for very long runs needed for studios (until the cable god realised it could be a good upsell for all the audiofools that is). Spend money on cables don't spend it who cares🤗
You need 3 pin conectors to have a shielded ballanced interconnect. Like XLR microphone cables have! RCA can't provide three. So i call bulshit on the "ballanced" RCA cables.
That's a pretty easy call because there is no such thing as balanced rca cables. Unless you're talking about a really odd setup like you have with some "balanced" headphones. They'll use 2 rca or 2TS connections to get 3 conductors. The 4th goes unused.
What is your weakest link? What, if anything, is causing a veil in your system? If you are running a 1980 Pioneer receiver, is it more of the problem than a solution? Are your speakers resolving of the signal to even let you know? If you try a $50 interconnect and don't hear a difference is it your equipment not letting your hear it? If you want the most out of your system, find a local hifi dealer and they will let you demo one or more cables to see if it makes a difference in your system, give it a try and see - that is what this hobby is about.
One of the things that makes these cable doubters so nauseating and uncredible, is that there is no other segment in the audio industry that offers so many money back no questions asked, in home trials than cable manufacturers They're really nice people.. If it was really snake oil, they obviously wouldn't offer long in home trials. That cable of his that has with locking collars, the locking is really for getting the connector to make as tight as possible a grip on the input/output terminals; TO IMPROVE SOUND QUALITY! A German company many years ago called WBT started coming out with collars that get tighter as you turn them. If you look at metal under high magnification, there's more craters than the moon. So even with a tight connection, there is not nearly as much metal to metal contact as you would think. Sumiko shortly thereafter came out with a product for audiophiles called TWEEK, which filled in those craters and potholes with a liquid which enhanced electrical conductivity. I still have a bottle. When my digital camera's batteries won't let me take any more pictures; one dab of TWEEK and it lets me take six or seven more pictures. Did he say where he is a scientist/professor at? I asked and he took my comment off again.
@@raygarafano3633 Speaking of SX-580, 780... SX-x50, SX-x90 series... low-middle line stuff in general... just as an example... I am sure SX-1250, 1280, 1980 etc are in another league.
I agree, but it can also be about one's own sensitivities. For example, when I used to turn my bedroom TV on, I could hear the signal before it even reached the sound bar! Even though an entry-level HDMI shielded cable helped, it was only when I splashed out and purchased an active optical HDMI cable did the signal noise finally disappear. The only problem is that it costs more than the sound bar. Hence, sensitivities
Here's a buyers guide for high end audio cables. Its so good, only Joe Biden could screw it up. 1. Try the cables in your system before you buy them. 2. If you hear a difference worth paying for, buy them. If not, don't buy them. (Where can I just get cables to try in my system without buying them!? The Cable Company. They are the largest cable dealer in the world. The reason for that is they keep demo units of every single cable they sell. If you need a new pair of interconnects, for example, they'll send you a box with 5 or 6 pairs, and you have about 2 weeks to try them. You're under no obligation to buy anything. I believe they started to ship outside the US, so if you don't live here, it wouldn't hurt to ask.)
I sold all my hifi and spent the money on cables... They are amazing... Zero noise or distortion. My neighbour appoves of my purchase too.
My wife is delighted how little space they take up.
I get it dude. Very funny🙃
Even after auditioning 3 separate AVR's, the same ambient sound of the room was still present! That told me the unwanted faint background signal noise I had been experiencing had nothing to do with the actual units. Therefore, my attention changed to the cables. And even then It was only on the third occasion after I finally purchased shielded cables that the noise floor within my small room finally came down to satisfactory levels.
Cables often act as antennas for attracting RF, and the longer the cable, the better the antenna. Probably explains why when I used to disconnect my heights and surrounds within 10 minutes, the faint background signal noise (RF/EMI) within my small room used to disappear/dissipate.
The more cables I shield, the quieter my room becomes. In fact, the last group of cables I shielded were my HDMI's and Lo behold the room became slightly quieter again..
When friends came around, I used to show them how loud the system goes. Nowadays, I prefer to press pause and show them how quiet it goes.
None of them gets it, of course 😂
I call thous cables make it work cable and that’s about all they do 😂😂 but mine don’t work at all because there in the bin. Good job 👍👍
I've used 14 gauge lamp cord from Home Depot for speaker wire for decades. I've never heard anything better..
someone with a brain 🎉 yay!
I think interconnect cables matter. It's when you get into power cables and speaker cables that's when I call BS. Good video, as always, brother 👍
I agree, but given these results, I may need to test those, too! Thanks!
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi I think that would be a highly watched video for sure.
You should try some decent speaker cables and power cables if your equipment is set up for it... you may be surprised, but as always, if another component is more of a "problem" ie: noise, grunge, just overall fuzziness you might not hear a difference. This might not be apparent to you if you don't know it is there, that is also an opportunity to try out some new gear and see if it is better.
@Weneedpeople power cables are snake oil they do not make anything measure differently or give anymore clean power than the stock power cord you're stereo equipment comes with. Speaker cables, yes, but they only really matter if they are not the same length.
@@timbabyfacesavage377your hearing doesn't' allow you to hear differences because they are there to hear. Firstly how long have you been involved with his end or good quality hi fi even this man was a doubter but is now reaccessing his stance also pays to have a complete cable loom to hear the largest difference and no it's not always better you have to experiment to find what suits your components
This a really helpful posting. I had never seen someone offer test results before, although I’ve watched a lot of TH-cam videos on the topic. It’s a tweak I’m considering. My [used] Music Hall MMF 5.3 came with the best pair of RCA I own, and they included directional arrows on them. They were supplied my the manufacturer, and shipped with the turntable originally. I intend to keep the price in the $100’s and not the $1,000’s. But then I thought I could build a decent system for $20,000. Passed that mark quite some time ago.
For speaker cable I use a double run of Kimber Kable 4VS to Bi-wire some Fyne Audio F502's sound is less muddy compared to regular copper cable. For interconnects I use Van Den Hul first ultimate mkii, these are carbon interconnects, sound is detailed yet not fatiguing. Plugs on the Van Den Hul are also very good and the cable contains a metal shield foil.
Power cables matter most, then interconnects, then spesker, then usb, then ethernet. I have a system bettering 1 million dollar retail system (all diy including the cables see "Doc Audio" videos on TH-cam for proof of this) and cables while I once felt the same as you, absolutely matter ONCE everything else is done like you pointed at (gear, setup, room treatment, ect)
I’ll try to bring up some Audioquest King Cobras (1m $300) to the Tubesky group in Corvallis one of these days, so you can play with it for awhile.
I dropped my first comment about halfway through the video as I had to pause and go to work. You covered my question beautifully in the last half. Great analysis of a controversial subject, love your videos!
I like your style. Thanks for doing the work so we don't to. Your tests prove what we all have been thinking.
Thank you!
He thanked you, without knowing WHICH WAY you were thinking, as you were not clear about it. A reckless inference. Thats'better than what he did with me. He took my perfectly logical comment off. People who sensor almost always have a political agenda, and have a degree of serious phoniness about them. There are people a thousand times more qualified obviously, to speak about the merits of cables, and other things audio. When he meets one, he makes their comment disappear. He calls himself a scientist; I am beginning to HIGHLY doubt that. Real scientist are very curious minded and interested in any. interesting perspective or opinion. And they DON'T make reckless inferences. Was thinking of subscribing; but I don't think I'll waste my time on here. There are plenty of good audio channels, with less weirdoness.
BTW, pretty sure your comment is still there, dude! Also, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest, in the nicest way possible, maybe, you might want to consider, just saying: chill pill!
A few years ago I decided to try some Monster speaker cables. I had been using 16AWG stranded lamp cord for years. I did some A/B testing and like you I could hear some difference. I decided to stay with the Monster speaker cables. The most recent thing that I changed was going to Roger Russel's IDS-25 column speakers. That made a dramatic difference. I had been using AR-2Ax speakers in parallel with some AR-2Ax clones in parallel. I am using a Hafler DH-160 equalizer instead of the McIntosh equalizer that Roger had used in his system. I have a Dynakit PAS-3X preamp and Dynakit ST-70. I also changed cables between tuner and CD players, turntables to better quality cables. Much of the issues that I have with noise in my area are due to a FM station 4.5 miles from my house and Wi-Fi signals in my house plus LED lights etc. Shielding helps and some cables are better than others in that regard. There are so many sources of interference these days that solving interference issues is a daunting task.
Howdy.
Comprehensive evaluation aöright.
High Regards.
I’m glad that you were open minded and took the careful time to do an actual comparison and did notice the difference. Between $100 and 200 spent on a cable is a sweet spot.
As the fidelity of the system increases, the percentage difference of a cable upgrade will also increase.
Cables will make a significant difference on a high fidelity system. Not so much on low fidelity or mid fidelity.
That's a great, honest take on cables. I know for sure that my "listening rooms" (my office and the den, ceiling fans in both) would need a lot of work before I would ever consider spending huge sums on cables. That said, I have started purchasing better cables to replace the old "freebie" cables that came with various components. A couple at a time seems to be a workable solution.
Also cables have better shielding. That helps. The one thing you should know. There's mega silly money cables. Why. Because there will always be people that buy them. Supply to demand.
A number of years ago I picked up a used book put out by Keithley tittled: Small Signal Measurements. One part of the book discusses wiring and cables. Keithley states that everything that goes into wiring and cables has an effect on the signal. Everything! Made for an interesting read.
Yes cables do matter and you are absolutely right that it depends on the rest of your gear if you can notice that difference, I think it is all about conductivity and shielding, old cables may have a bit of oxide on the outer layer and if i am correctly informed, electrons move across the shel of the conductor, so that would have an influence on the conductivity, Also, I love the Rickenbacker bass in the background, always wanted one of those, I love your content, greetings from the Nederlands
I've tried a lot of different cables cuz I'm obsessive. I've spent my way up to multi hundred dollar Audioquest Cables. When I had a sub $2000 system I was happy with Canare L-4E6S from World's Best Cables. It made sense to me to use what the recording studio probably uses, which is mostly Mogami and Canare. Synergy comes into play so I think it's worth it to try a couple $30ish cables to find what you like. It's great you found a measurable difference since some people claim there is none without actually measuring. With speaker cables I hear no difference which I think is because the higher voltage signal is more robust
Well, good luck finding an analog recording studio.........................
Everything is digital now. In the entire massive studio chain, the only spot where analog is still used is from the microphones in or out to the headphones. And that's all XLR.
Very few "bands" even coordinate for a "studio recording session" anymore. It's a bygone era.
@@TriAmpHiFi I don't doubt it is mostly digital now. Canare L-4E6S actually is an XLR cable but can be had wired single ended. I have no affiliation with the Canare or World's Best Cables. It's made in Japan, good enough for professional mic cable, and I liked the midrange better than the Mogamis or Belden I tried
@@PlaybackMansionyes, select raw cable models from Canare, Mogami, and Belden can be made into great sounding DIY ic and speaker cables..
@@TriAmpHiFiwhy go looking? Recordings start using digital in the late 70s... Digital have more users than the dying analog anyways. Not beating on it but thats the way the cookie crumbles
@@PlaybackMansion .
Buying bulk multi-core cable & making custom single ended RCAs? I don't think recording studios are doing that either my fellow audiophile friend 🙂
Thanks
It all true! I recently had a similar experience changing from monoprice 12 gauge speaker cable to Belkin 10 gauge. Could not hear or see a difference with audioquest hdmi cable.
Tank you, honest chat a bout music fans favorite fighting words. I have seen heated debate on that better cable thing, left me unimpressed you are right. So I am going to score some betta interconnects.
If something sounds different, is it better?
Quality interconnects and speaker cables matter to a certain extent in my experience. But it is nothing to go crazy about.
A tiny inexpensive passive part of a ampfifier for example can have a way bigger impact on soundquality than a ridiculously
priced interconnect or speaker cable. Just to give a rational perspective.
Of course, I wonder about those passive components, too!
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Well,i started with speakerbuilding (and construction) in the eighties and slowly added
amp-renovation and where it looks promising also amp-tuning to the things a learned a bit about over time.
BTW: Your line of thought i find always very traceable. 👍 So yeah,i abo`ed your channel some time ago.
Good work.
Oh, and OFC copper interconnect cables are imho the way to go. Im not that enthusiastic about silver tho.
When i was young i could even hear if a OFC cable was connected the right way.....but now at over sixty,well
aging kicks in and hearing doesnt get better with age.....😞
When choosing the 'right' cable, it's not just about quality, but also about the overall properties of the different materials and manufacturing philosophy. I have several cables that are all in roughly the same price range (around €300). There are clear differences in the sound that can't simply be described as 'better' or 'worse', but simply as 'different'. A silver cable, for example, definitely sounds different to a copper cable. And just as different components harmonize better or worse with each other, the same is true for certain components and cables. So it's a matter of taste which cable I choose... not necessarily a question of whether one is better than the other.
. But there is a type demonstrably better than the other type. Remember that the cable is only 1 part of the connection. All types include the plugs and socket outlets too but another type has DC powered PCBs attached to the outlets on both ends as well.
Common mode rejection connections are less noisy than single ended. At best, a short $10K patchcord might equal a $30 XLR in certain circumstances.
If patchcords are a concern for an upcoming system build, the direction to head from the start are components that include balanced connections. It's way cheaper in the long run, especially if planning on upgrading a chain over time. Getting stuck with single ended is a barrier to inserting upgraded components of a certain level.
Acid Jazz, Funk & Brass 🔈🔉🔊
You have a $500 preamp, a $400 CD player, whatever dollar that tube amp is... and a great pair of speakers.... adjusted for inflation, that system is easily 2K... in your system, you are under-cabled. This is a much more resolving system than most vintage gear and I, from experience owning or playing with, most of your equipment in the past that you are missing sound quality... also try the Micca speaker wire - cheap, but reported to be great wire for the money and (guessing) much better than what you are currently using.
It is a nice system. It helps that I built the power amp. 😁 I figured I was already overdoing it with the speaker cables by using 12 AWG. Some experimentation is probably on order. I might cover the concrete back wall first, though.
Great video and I appreciate the Analysis of the frequency response, harmonics, and your listing experience!
If you really want to have some fun, grab a copy of Allen Wright’s Super Cables Cookbook, which goes into extensive detail about the theory behind Cable design and some easy do it yourself suggestions.
This is a good and realistic appraisal
I agree that the room management comes first
If you find that. Your signal conductor isnt big enough.make a custom twisted pair from lamp cord. Put your own ends on it. Or get a spool of belden.. and do the same.
I have found when it comes to experimenting with different audio equipment and accessories that I don't like to use the word better. I like to use the word appealing. Plus I have found i can really recognize the sound of my system when I'm listening but not trying to focus on the way it sounds if that makes any sense. Then make adjustments from there.
I am concerned more about reliability along with doing a good job. I still have entry level Audioquest interconnects from the ‘90s, and I use reliable speaker wires from Micca. Sounds fine with my “vintage” Nakamichi-Martin Logan system.
I want to use balanced outputs on one of my tables but I can't afford a phono preamp that has them. I think I will try a step up transformer first. I've got a few mc carts and 2 are low output. These are where cables really matter and I'm glad you brought it up. I got a set of what where supposed to be good cables but they where knock offs. So now I have a few sets of esoteric cables I got well used for a decent price. Panga and clear audio also these are what I use for the tables I have. I built 3 linns from bits I horded over the years. Along with an ariston rd11 so I got one pure linn and 2 scrapel decks one is even using the ariston motor and keeps time perfectly. That tells me that linn sondek did steal the design from Hamish who founded ariston. Sorry tangent over. I've made my Owen cables used shielded sliver wire from cardas as well as wiring up my best speakers and even though my other systems have a set of kef reference series 2 speakers and magnepan MG iiia speakers both are driven by bryston 4bs bridged and bi amped with a pair of hotrod hafler DH-200s. My reference system has a nakamichi pa5 mkii power amp driving a set of custom speakers that have usher woofers and planer tweeters that bested a set of byrilium tweeters with an nad preamp that has balanced outputs and ins thos setup has all silver wire and is just sounds so much better. All rooms have treatment as well though the reference system has it a bit better. I was surprised it made such a difference. So glad you had data to show the difference even if small. Small adds up. If you build a 100 foot wall and your a 1/4" off at 10 feet you will have a hell of a curve at the end. End of book😅
I have a nice system, I used to have some rather expensive cables in that system. I have gotten into a bind and needed to sell something... I sold my AQ $1300 balanced cables and my $1800 6-foot speaker cables... I have since installed my "back-up" cabling from Transparent and a little-known company called Audio-Tekne... these are nice cables - BUT - I am missing quite a bit of the sound my system used to have... realism... it still sounds great, just does not have the expansive soundstage and some of the detail it used to have. Hopefully once I am caught up and things go well in the future, I will be able to replace those cables - right now I just have to enjoy what I have. Cables make a difference but it is system dependent and should be one of the last things you tweak... Buy equipment, set it up properly, adjust room treatments... Live with decent cheap cables... then change out (borrow from a dealer) a cable at a time and see what works.
Speaker cables do make a difference but you don’t have to break the bank for great sound. The Micca 14awg pure copper cables are awesome and sound better than cables that literally cost in the thousands. They are $40 for a 12 foot pair. Check out the reviews and sound tests. You will be impressed and at that price why not give them a try?
Cables matter. Sometimes dramatically so. An Oehlbach NF 14 Master was horrible from my Adcom GPT-500 to my Sansui AU-317 power amp part. Much too bright. But from the CD-player tot the Adcom it was sweet. It is mix and match. Just do not use the shoe string and get some shielded cables. Cheap Goobay's are already better than free shoe strings. Just look at the used market for some brand cables, just to try. You'll pay 30 to 40 bucks and you can always sell it again for about the same amount. I got my Oehlbach's and AudioQuests that way.
One thing I want of good quality in the cables are connectors. Faulty cinch baked my speakers and I'm not willing to repeat this experience. That's why I don't want cables found on garbage pile. And stuff for $100 and more? Maybe if I want back of my cupboard looking stylish, sure, not that I would see it sitting in front :D
Interconnect cables can matter. Some of those cheap cables aren't even copper lol.
Cables fall under the tuning or tweaking category. Personally I have two principals when it come to that (purely for cost reduction reasons). In no order, try to do it your self and try to get something that is NOT made for audio. So a shelf comes from IKEA and was made to be a cutting board. And my phono cables are actually thermo-couple extension (or TC Type - N, thus dual copper) cables with RCA plugs (hard wired in the turntable because why not). In both cases the saving compared to alternative products made for audio are in the hundreds or even thousand %.
I used the same principle some years ago when I rebuilt two bicycles. Fox shock oil? Nah, ATF by the case from the auto supply store.
Non-coax cables will make a difference. Is it correct, or better. I suspect not. It looked like the other cable might be a quad conductor cable, originally designed for balanced audio rather than unbalanced single ended audio. I doubt you will see much difference between coax cables. But these other weird topologies, incorrectly used for unbalanced audio will be all over the map. Would be interesting to hear your thoughts on that.
In your system, I would (at least) try TWO AudioQuest Golden Gate RCA cables... one between the CD player and preamp, and the other between the preamp and amplifier... now THAT would be a test. I very much believe that it would be a great step forward for not much money, not as cheap as your Chinese silver-plated (maybe) copper wire (maybe) oxygen free (maybe) but with real metallurgy.
0:37 Nice amazon RCA cables! 40$ a pair of 1 m. I have them too
In germany the Sommer elefant cable 4x2.5mm/6€/$ m was testet very good. Cheap!!👍👍🇩🇪
I suspect that the expensive thick RCA cables have lower capacitance between the inner conductor and the outer braid. That would make them sound different to the cheap cables at higher audio frequencies. Not worth the money in my opinion.
I upgraded my USB cable (yes, old school computer music player) from the AudioQuest Cinamon to Audience Front Row (bought used)… I had to sit down!!! Just blew it out of the water!
I am also very sceptical of the cable hype. From an electronic component point of view.
You need to check the consistency of your samples.
Like how much difference is there between samples using the same cable?
Yes, somwhere somehow.
cabling my system of two loudspeakers, two subwoofers, pre, amp, and DAC cost around $400ish dollars. my runs are slightly long and none of the cables is "audiophile." the philosophy is "broadcast-standard" (Mogami XLR between analog devices, Blue Jeans cable to the speakers).
is that expensive? i really don't think so, not compared to the total system cost around $11k. i have the feeling that i spent exactly enough 🤷🏾♂
This is like any other chain in the system generally more expensive electronics are made to a higher standard and are more revealing better built electronics the better signal transfer is needed so you can get the most out off your level of electronics,there are many criteria that effect signal flow education is the key as a electronic engineer I have studied all there is to learn about signal flow and simply quoting price is very childish,simply put better more accurate electronics need better transmission lines to achieve the absolute sound
First I love the styling of Adcom. Second You have access to your friends Cardas cables so you can freely have a cable orgy to see what a acardas Clear Beyond does for your stmystem and his..Then put your cables with his gear and discuss presentation, sound stagecdepth, and etc.
Never, NEVER, NEVER borrow equipment, speakers, cables to use in your system that you cannot afford or don't want to afford... if you like it, or love it... and you can't/won't buy it... your system will FOREVER suck, and you will know it. It is one thing to hear it at the store, to hear it at a friends house... but to hear it in YOUR room... trust me, that is bad.
Yeah, he's offered to bring some different cables for the pre-to-power connection. I might have to take him up on that.
I get what you're saying, but surely I could suck it up for science!
@@Weneedpeople Good point. It would make a good video either way. Especially if he tries his cables on his friend's system.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi I'm going to give you a friendly challenge, and I think you'll find it interesting. Can you find some type of test or study done on audio cables, that meets real scientific standards, on any cable ever made?
That's just a guess, but couldn't good quality, shielded microphone cables be a good and not that costly solution for the connection of low voltage gear?
Maybe, but I have to admit I'm a bit wary of using shielded cables. That's based on my experience with RF and twinax. If the shielding wasn't grounded just right, with the grounding wire exactly perpendicular to the signal wire, then grounding the shielding was actually hugely detrimental. Moreover, perfect grounding yielded only a small benefit. This was with twinax carrying RF (134 kHz) over tens of meters. In the end we opted for leaving the shielding ungrounded rather than have a system that was sensitive to someone bumping the grounding wire out of position. That system was also complicated by the fact that the same cable was used for sending at high power and receiving at low power. I'm not saying you're wrong! Just that I was traumatized by how spooky that system was. If you're curious about what I'm referring to, see my other channel, "Geomorphdog."
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Thank you for giving a statement to my proposal, although it's kind of wasted on me, because my lack of insight into electronics.
"I am Mad", a YT-Channel recommends in his latest Video, that the + and - of a shielded cable should be twisted together and connected to the +, and the shield connected to the -. He admits, that it's against common sense, but for him this would be the best way to go.
Audiophiles always want to get closer to excellence, but it could take years and who knows how much money. It definitely takes time.
The big problem is that these snake oil vendors have them convinced there is something beyond wherever they are at the moment. It's the "New best thing ever" pitch and I can hardly believe anyone buys it, never mind the numbers that do.
"Snake Oil Saleman" if they really were that, never give free 30 day in home trials, and NO Questions asked money back guarantees. Even in THE OLD WEST! After selling their elixir which does nothing, they'd mosey on down to a far away enough town overnight. It doesn't make sense when someone says they're snake oil salesman. Complete nonsense and paranoia. Some of the prices are crazy though. But you usually do get something much nicer sounding in return though If you are not able to hear a difference; that's YOU. Other people DO hear a difference, whether they have far better perception or far better equipment or what have you. They are not brainwashed airheads, they are
mainly doctors, lawyers, dentists, stock traders, musicians, and other professionals who can afford expensive cable and expensive gear. And yes, there are many places beyond, from the mundane sound quality that cheap unsophisticated & unadvanced equipment takes you. Vistas that doubters will never get to experience. Let's not pretend that more money can't buy you nicer things. Just because that is always not the case. Most of the time it is the case.
Did you measure the same cable playing the same note multiple times and compare differences? I would like to see a control in the experiment. Perhaps these are inherent differences from the speaker or environment. I think this would be worth testing. Fwiw, I am also willing to pay a slight premium for a better-looking and feeling cable. Also the quality of the terminations are important to me.
What would you measure, and why?
@AT-wl9yq He didn't measure an electrical signal(the cable) he recorded an audio sample(measured the speakers, room acoustics and everything in it,) something as small as being in the room and standing a single step out of place, in any direction could cause measurable differences. Temperature change, humidity, etc.) It would simply be a control for the experiment. If you measure the same cable several times, and have no measurable difference, you know with a greater degree of certainty that the changes you are observing are coming from the switching the cables out.(as opposed to any of the reasons I mentioned or others)
I’ve been meaning to ask, do you sale your tube amps online?
I have one listed on FB Marketplace, but I haven't offered shipping. If you're interested in an amp, we should chat via email: stephenDOTtDOTlancasterATgmailDOTcom
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi Thanks I was just curious, but I'll reach out in the future when I'm thinking about buying another amp!
The cables from a TT are left and right channel not positive and negative. The ground is on a third wire so wtf is that guy talking on? Anyways it’s a DIN plug that improves sound, balanced is only for very long runs needed for studios (until the cable god realised it could be a good upsell for all the audiofools that is). Spend money on cables don't spend it who cares🤗
You need 3 pin conectors to have a shielded ballanced interconnect. Like XLR microphone cables have!
RCA can't provide three.
So i call bulshit on the "ballanced" RCA cables.
That's a pretty easy call because there is no such thing as balanced rca cables. Unless you're talking about a really odd setup like you have with some "balanced" headphones. They'll use 2 rca or 2TS connections to get 3 conductors. The 4th goes unused.
Problem..stop grouping it all as cables is wrong..next remove anything with lighting ballasts. Depending on length..there should be no difference..
What is your weakest link? What, if anything, is causing a veil in your system? If you are running a 1980 Pioneer receiver, is it more of the problem than a solution? Are your speakers resolving of the signal to even let you know? If you try a $50 interconnect and don't hear a difference is it your equipment not letting your hear it? If you want the most out of your system, find a local hifi dealer and they will let you demo one or more cables to see if it makes a difference in your system, give it a try and see - that is what this hobby is about.
One of the things that makes these cable doubters so nauseating and uncredible, is that there is no other segment in the audio industry that offers so many money back no questions asked, in home trials than cable manufacturers They're really nice people.. If it was really snake oil, they obviously wouldn't offer long in home trials. That cable of his that has with locking collars, the locking is really for getting the connector to make as tight as possible a grip on the input/output terminals; TO IMPROVE SOUND QUALITY! A German company many years ago called WBT started coming out with collars that get tighter as you turn them. If you look at metal under high magnification, there's more craters than the moon. So even with a tight connection, there is not nearly as much metal to metal contact as you would think. Sumiko shortly thereafter came out with a product for audiophiles called TWEEK, which filled in those craters and potholes with a liquid which enhanced electrical conductivity. I still have a bottle. When my digital camera's batteries won't let me take any more pictures; one dab of TWEEK and it lets me take six or seven more pictures. Did he say where he is a scientist/professor at? I asked and he took my comment off again.
Are u talking about a Pioneer rcvr made in 1980 OR an SX1980 receiver?
@@raygarafano3633 Speaking of SX-580, 780... SX-x50, SX-x90 series... low-middle line stuff in general... just as an example... I am sure SX-1250, 1280, 1980 etc are in another league.
@@sidesup8286 YES! Still have my bottle of TWEEK! somewhere, afraid to use it all up.... :)
I agree, but it can also be about one's own sensitivities. For example, when I used to turn my bedroom TV on, I could hear the signal before it even reached the sound bar! Even though an entry-level HDMI shielded cable helped, it was only when I splashed out and purchased an active optical HDMI cable did the signal noise finally disappear. The only problem is that it costs more than the sound bar. Hence, sensitivities
ok, so you leave your phono cables balaced...now u cant plug it in to any of your gear.
ProJect, ifi and Schiit all make affordable balanced-input phono amps. It’s becoming more common.
Yeah, I don't have any gear with XLR connections.
Definitely good to know.
@@Lancaster_Hi-Fi i have some. still SOL if i decide to make my turntables balanced XLR out.
Here's a buyers guide for high end audio cables. Its so good, only Joe Biden could screw it up.
1. Try the cables in your system before you buy them.
2. If you hear a difference worth paying for, buy them. If not, don't buy them.
(Where can I just get cables to try in my system without buying them!? The Cable Company. They are the largest cable dealer in the world. The reason for that is they keep demo units of every single cable they sell. If you need a new pair of interconnects, for example, they'll send you a box with 5 or 6 pairs, and you have about 2 weeks to try them. You're under no obligation to buy anything. I believe they started to ship outside the US, so if you don't live here, it wouldn't hurt to ask.)
seriously? this topic is beyond redundant. if ya don’t have anything interesting or new to bring, please stop taking up server space !
Wires do not matter one bit, the electrons do not care. Coat hangers work exactly the same as the most expensive cables.
Prove it.