Hi Danny, thanks for putting up this accurate and informative video on power cables. For some additional reference for your viewers, here are links to two videos I made using an Entech power line noise analyzer that demonstrates *_with data_* the impact that well-designed power cords can have on reducing noise from our AC mains. Links here: th-cam.com/video/g2SAj7aKXGo/w-d-xo.html and here: th-cam.com/video/-X9gYpmtlxE/w-d-xo.html ASR likes data? Well, here it is...
Your test doesn't show what effect the noise reducing cable has on the output of your audio components. Instead you end your video with the statement "you can assume...". So far for objective data.
How come you're getting what appears to be just 1 audio signal? Around here there's dozens of FM and AM radio stations, so if your power did somehow manage to pickup radio signals, wouldn't it just sound like noise, and not like 1 radio station?
@@4everB2 All one has to do is plug it in and listen. A large proportion of the noise from audio systems comes from the components _themselves._ Specifically, their full-wave bridge rectifier power supplies. It's *alternating current,* the current DOES NOT flow just in _one direction_ like water from a hose to a faucet; from the wall rceptacle to the component, in only one direction. It's AC...the current goes INTO the component and back OUT of the component, at *60X/sec.* And, when the the current comes back out of the component, noise components from preamps and amp power supplies are distributed to lower signal source components. It's a SYSTEM: the power distributor prevents noise COMING IN from the AC mains and NR power cords prevent noise from coming BACK OUT of the components.
@@stephenscharf6293 I have tested those meters and the noise they make is NOT proportional to noise on the power line. To wit, I bet you were NOT hearing that Am station on your system. For that to happen, the bandwidth of your audio gear needs to go way higher than audio band. And some sort of demodulation to occur. This can happen with very long runs of audio cables and such but in home scenarios, it is very rare. To the extent your gear does play AM radio, then sure, you can deploy various means to get rid of it or better yet, buy audio gear that is not susceptible to such interference. As to interference from the AC cable, I had to put a giant transformer right next to the cable to induce any mains noise. And even then, it was way below threshold of audibility. Again, folks are not hearing such interference in their audio gear. Really, those meters are tools used to sell you things you don't need. Don't put your trust in a silly little meter that doesn't show the spectrum or even tell you what on earth it is spitting out. If you believe in measurements, trust the ones I show where I show the output of audio devices where no impact is shown at all with these cable and power tweeks.
Danny, I've bought your products in the past & probably will again, but, I think in this video one of your "proofs" can be painted with the same brush you use to paint Amir testing with no load. Specifically I am talking about your use of background noise as an analog for noise on a power cable. If you want to show how your power cable protects against noise, just show it. To show how much your power cable can reduce noise injected into a power supply, setting up a simple test seems pretty straightforward. I might suggest something like the following; 1) An AC power source. 2) A noise source on the same circuit, perhaps fluorescent lights, or some other device(s) which is/are noisy. Make sure the noise source is as far away from the actual test as possible. 3) An standard AC outlet. 4) A standard AC power cord of reasonable quality. 5) A GR Research power cord. 6) A quality power supply either switching or linear. 7 A resistor to act as a load. 8) An oscilloscope to measure noise. Hook the power supply to the resistor for a load, connect the oscilloscope to the resistor for measurement, attach the power to the power supply with the standard AC power cable. Capture screen shots of the noise artifacts. Then swap in the GR Research cable take the same screen shots and compare. Any differences will show the benefit of the power cable. The use of the power supply is simple, most if not all power supplies have circuitry to reduce noise in the output DC signal. Different power supplies are more or less effective at this. All audio gear have power supplies to convert the AC to DC and to provide various voltages to different circuits in the equipment. It also means the resistor we need is much more manageable. The reason for a resistor is it shouldn't inject much if any noise into the test. I don't have an oscilloscope or one of your power cords, or I would try it myself and post the results.
You can place an RCA"unbalanced" cable near a powercord and hear the buzzing in a speaker when the EMI is strong enough and the cable has poor shielding.
@@dannyrichie9743 No, you're the one who refuses to test your theory. Asserting over and over that "it must work because it makes an audible difference" is not testing your theory. It's making a baseless assertion that cannot be - and has not been - verified by anyone else in a properly designed scientific study.
I definitely noticed the long coaxial cable run in ceiling/wall bringing tremendous noise when I put in my Rel 212/sx subs. I had some cheaper subs and it didn’t really have any noise with the same cables. Once I switched to XLR, there was zero noise. So yes, definitely there is interference that goes on with cables, also, the higher-end gear usually will be more sensitive to it.
@@guillermomartin8248 absolutely, but that's with interconnects that carry the signal. An AC cord is a different proposition. And ask yourself - who has plugged in a piece of gear, heard all kinds of interference noise like you did with your Rel subs, and then solved that noise problem with a different AC cord? No one. Balanced interconnects, though, can definitely reduce or solve that kind of problem, and the mechanism by which they do so is well known, easily tested, easily measured, and easily confirmed. Can't say that for Danny's AC cord.
Danny, do the tests and show your cables make a difference and in what ways and I will buy them. Until them saying you "know" and have done tests doesn't make anyone come to your side. Your product show it and I will agree and buy.
@@ramencurry6672 No, it's the people who take a scope and plot a line and tell you how it sounds.....sound familiar? This is without going into a room with a revealing system and letting them show how components can change a system with cables, or whatever. The ones who deny without auditioning, are really on a bandwagon. Other than that
@@stever7638 I’ve done the comparison with high end power cables on gear costing thousands of dollars. No difference. ….Also the people with the best golden ears are studio engineers analyzing the tiniest nuances. You never hear them talking about power cables.
@@stever7638 Literally human ears are not anywhere NEAR as sensitive or precise as the high grade test equipment such as the Audio Precision System One and only a fool believes otherwise.
@@Turboy65 I think you're missing my point. High end tube gear can generally sound much better than solid state. But it's not gonna measure that way. And there seems to be a consensus between a group of people, that it doesn't matter how it sounds. It's only how it measures and that's not how it works. The human ear can distinguish a 1 HZ difference at 400 Hz, that's more than enough resolution.
Wow! Engineer with 20 years of electronics experience here. First of all, even a fresh graduate engineer would know that it just takes one single and simple step to prove that a cable (or any other product ftm) could reduce electical noise in audio: Record the same output signal from the same playback device under the same conditions with different cables and compare the noise levels. This video does everything but. Furthermore, the narrative is deceptive in nature. In the part where a red line and a green line are shown as noise graphs: That is NOT not isolated electrical noise. It is the actual noise of the surroundings being recorded by the mic. There is a fan running in the background while recording!!! A power cable can do nothing about it. It's like plugging a power cable to reduce the grains in an old recording or remove pop and scratch noises from vynil. Just like: It takes looking at a handful of objective indicators to actually understand earth is round, but they always get skipped or ignored by flat earthers. It's RICH to call anyone else flat earthers. I can't believe there are actual human beings praising this video...
You might need to watch it again. 25:30 mark. We are going to "illustrate" noise levels.... I explained that they were not the same, but for illustration purposes it worked great in showing how random A/C noise levels are.
Dear @@dannyrichie9743 the noise you're "illustrating" has NOTHING To do with electrical noise. While common AC noise may or may not be out of phase, however, EMI noise is on phase as picked up by two cables side by side. "Illustrating" room noise as analogous as electrical noise is misleading and irrelevant to the actual question: Can an AC cable actually reduce electrical or EMI noise? If it could, it could easily be proven with a VERY SIMPLE experiment I outlined in my previous message. You don't need a 40 min-long video to "talk" about it, just demonstrate it: Record the same output signal from the same playback device under the same conditions with different cables and compare the noise levels on the scope. It's that simple. You're also pretending as if modern audio electronics don't have purpose built internal electrical noise filters already. They do, and pretending that any AC noise makes their way directly into the audio signal path as-is, is pretty deceiving if not totally oblivious in the first place.
@@hankkirk944 Oh yeah, my illustration easily showed the randomness of noise. Everyone else got it. You are just being continuous. A/C noise easily finds its way onto the audio signal. It is even present on digital cables. If you think the power supplies will remove it all then you are very naive.
Are you sure about how the balanced signal works? It sure doesn't work like that in industry. The inverter signal and the non-inverted signal is feed to a differential amp. Since both lines were subject to the same noise environment the polarities of that noise should also be in phase. But since a differential amp is used on the input the noise will be rejected by the amplifier input stage. This is called common mode rejection.
Really? Is the particular cable in question remotely near a StarQuad config? No! Hos power cable isn’t even shielded! Sounds like you guys should go work with Amir.
@@izumispa2993 Did you watch the complete video? He jumps back and forth between the characteristics of a good power and cable and interconnects with differential inputs. I do have a lot more respect for Amir, he isn't selling snake oil and elixirs. He backs up most of his positions with science and good engineering. However, I have had my disagreements with Amir in past as well.
@@johndavidson6433 so have I. He seems to know enough about what he's saying so that a laymen would be convinced that he is non-bias. With that said, he's trying to convince the average listener; who has moderately good stereo equipment. Not to spend money on high end attachments that may have little to no effect on your equipment! In other words 89 octane works very well in most domestic cars. Changing to 93 or 100 octane will make very little to no difference to your car power. However, in a Bugatti or Porsche etc... going from 93 to 98 or even 100 octane. Can increase your engine power by 15 to 30%!
A salesman trying to educate an Engineer.............Danny you are quite entertaining for sure, I love most of your videos, but in all fairness YOU ARE DOING THIS AS A BUSINESS,....Amir is doing this as a HOBBY and is a neutral participant. You bickering with him over his measurements etc is protecting what you sell. We all get that. When you bicker about ASR you get more views also. We get that. But in the end, anyone educated in electronics or audio engineering sees it all for what it is. You mix 50% actual facts with a bit of snake oil, and hope no one realizes.
@As the World Burns he makes these claims that the engineering is superior. He also does not state that any of these specs make something sound better. He's using ACTUAL SCIENCE to provide usable data. ZERO SNAKE OIL.
I am an engineer myself, but Amir is everything except being objective and neutral. In fact, he already wrongly advised people certain things, like EQ'ing destructive (port) resonance dips. Which doesn't even do anything (since it's a destructive resonance), it even can overload and damage your speakers. But the list goes on and on. Which is fine by itself, except that Amir is 100% closed off for any kind of critique. Kind of ironic when someone calls himself "scientific". I like the mission he's on, but definitely not his attitude. All that being said, I totally agree with the rest of what you said btw! :)
I also am an engineer. It not salesmen trying to educate engineers here but engineers who think they are engineers, but aren’t. Amir said it best…just because you passed a few courses in school doesn’t mean you understand the practical uses of the theory.
"there's NOISE in the AC Line" Yeah, but the Power Supply in any equipment is converting the "noisy AC" coming out of your wall socket into CLEAN DC before feeding it into the noise sensitive components, so...
That's one of the basics he chooses to ignore here. He knows this, but chooses his words carefully. His main goal is to keep selling the snake oil, obviously. This is all a performance, and attempt to keep scamming people who don't know this. I'm also pretty sure he bans all of our comments, too, if he can. He dug himself a too deep hole. Public cannot see this, I mean look at the comments, people know he's a liar.
So you are telling me, that the point of cutting costs(power supply) for more earnings in $ is so perfect it changes water into a wine??? LOL. Power conditioners that are a size of an amp is a compromise in terms of optimal signal. It's easier to clean power when it was pre cleaneg by some bit before. Especialy that cleaner biult in the amp is not so great.
@@sheerenergy8602 Isn't there a difference to cleaning power with an amp sized conditioner before a system and having a solid gold cable going from the wall to the system (ignoring all the qualities or problems from the power station to your wall socket.) I don't think a cable no matter how expensive can claim passive conditioning.
@@spudpud-T67 You are one of that guys who tells around that cables in the wall are shitty to the outlet and from there im using more expensive cables and you dont see no point in that. Well im seeing it and enjoying my improvments in sound. And you don't even know that gold is less conductive than copper.😂 And if you hace a house and you can do two or 3 separate electric circuts its recomended. Noisy machines on one and audio euip on the second. Power conditioner can be used in many houses when you move out or when you renting a condo/room. I dont need to crush any walls. Problems of conditioners they are expensive and limiting dynamics vs bare outlet.
Oh good ,another pissing Match between someone who knows what he's talking about vs Danny " I'm a salesman selling any high dollar contraption with 100 % zero proof of what he says ".
Yup, a cheap good speaker in a good room will sound way better than crazy expensive ones in a toilet. Room treatmemt is where people should dump their money in before anything else.
Judging by some of the responses below it seems that there are some folks that don't know what a 'double blind' experiment is. Yes is can be conducted for a cable test. Definition: "A type of clinical trial in which neither the participants nor the researcher knows which treatment or intervention participants are receiving until the clinical trial is over. This makes results of the study less likely to be biased." A third person administers the treatment or in this case the cable selection. Probable a single blind test is all that is required.
A lot to unpack here. 1st, I always thought the "flat earthers" reference belonged to the "we know", "it's common sense", "it's obvious" group and the "non-flat earthers" were the ones that used engineering, testing and measuring to scientifically prove their point. After all, virtually any 2nd year engineering student can prove mathematically that the earth is round. As in all conspiracies, he who labels a conspiracy 1st, has the high ground. 2. With cables, Amir's point was totally missed and misconstrued. Take a cable loop with an AC current of one amp and place another closed loop cable parallel to it and you can calculate the induced current! EVEN if they are a MILE from each other! It is simple mathematics and physics--not brain surgery. The question is not, DOES IT HAPPEN, BUT, DOES IT MAKE AN AUDIBLE DIFFERENCE! The same is true for a piece of wire acting as an antenna--as Amir said, any wire not properly shielded will act as an antenna! BUT DOES IT MAKE AN AUDIBLE DIFFERENCE!!?? I would have to go back and look at Amir's video but I believe Danny confused and misconstrued Amir's analysis and description of these two totally different effects---that is induced voltages and antenna affects. Amir frequently will tell you that a product does exactly what it is "advertised to", as in a power supply conditioner, but then he will tell you that it is not necessary, nor audible, and show the measurements to prove it and THIS is the point of Amir's test and reviews! Now, one can use all the soft spoken, not name calling words of "everyone knows", it's common sense", my "30 years of experience', etc but in doing so one has not proved a single thing to refute Amir's scientific, test and measurements. And yet, Amir has offered many many times a chance for one and all to prove him wrong by submitting a scientific, peer reviewed, double-blind study proving that one could HEAR the difference. He will even republish it! But of course, that would be a waste of time because the real flat earthers, "know', "have the common sense", have "the years of experience" etc that would make a peer review double-blind scientific study a waste of time and money. In full disclosure, I am an electrical engineer older than I ever thought I would be, coming from a heavy industrial background. I love watching videos produced by both Danny and Amir. Both have knowledge and experience that has helped me tremendously in my futile search for audio nirvana.
The problem there is that we already know and have proven hundreds of times that there are audible differences. Amir is just taking a handful of rudimentary measurements that don't show a measured difference and is theorizing a result. The fact is that we already know there is an audible difference and for Amir to get nothing to confirm it means he is measuring the wrong things. Also, anyone throwing out the terms "double blind" has never conducted a cable comparison.
Why I enjoy both Danny and Amir's videos, when it comes to cables making a difference I say show me the scientific, peer reviewed, double-blind study. If you can tell a difference as stated, the the study will not contradict that. If study does show that, then I will admit that there is a difference. But I doubt this outcome. Everything I have seen so far does not support hearing a difference in a power cable for example. For such a long and contentious argument, running a scientific, peer reviewed, double-blind study seems rather trivial. I have been waiting years for this and I challenge Danny and Amir to come together to do this.
@@todd8155 Good grief people. It is not possible to compare cables "double blind". You have no idea what goes into a cable comparison. We've made and have done blind comparisons all the time. It is how we develop products like these. So we know we can back up what we say.
@dannyrichie9743 - Sure it is. You are smart guys. You can figure it out. Here's a simple method requiring only three people, two rooms, a buzzer, and some paper: 1) A person (the switcher) in a separate room that would get a one-way signal, like a buzzer going off, then manually switch cables, noting the time and writing result on paper. 2) A Conductor that runs the test and presses the switch button. The conductor notes the time of the switch and the test results on paper. He is with the listener. 3) Listener(s). The test conductor, and listener(s) would be together in a separate room from the switcher and there would be no information flow from the switcher to the conductor or listener(s). Double blind, simple, cheap. What's so hard or impossible about that? Here is a more complex scenario: Create a switching box that is CPU controlled (a Raspberry Pi some relays, some code, and not much more). It would randomly switch the outputs when you pressed a switch, then spit out the switching results after the test. I would bet that some of yours or Amir's listeners would be willing to create such a device (it is beyond my skill level.) It is anything but impossible. This is an experiment that is demanding to be done, and should have been done decades ago IMO. I mean, with some support from manufactures, I would be willing to set this up. I am sure that you have two rooms, one that can contain the equipment and switcher, close to another listening room with the conductor and listener. We could challenge leading industry types and TH-camrs to take the double-blind listening challenge. Surely this would be one of the greatest experiments in audio listening to date. Blind is not double blind. To me this a basic tenant of scientific research. Until this is done, you will never convince some people. I myself would like to be proven wrong, but really, don't believe that I am. I can admit that I am wrong and ultimately I believe you to have integrity and the ability and humility to admit when one is wrong. I challenge Amir @audiosciencereview to join in. I challenge both sides to accept the results of this challenge, whatever they may be.
Why can't we measure and show the differences? Do we lack the resolution in the sampling equipment to show the nuance of change from one cable to the next? One thing I agree with Amir is that measuring electrical properties of a cable is somewhat useless when it's the net effect in the system that matters. Can we have a cable with better conductivity and noise reduction that actually results in subjectively worse sound at the listening position? And what is the cable changing? Because if it's frequency response, a cable would be a terrible way to accomplish that task when you could alternatively just... EQ
if equipment can't detect it … Shure as hell human ears will not... our ears are crap even in the animal kingdom domain, any cat or dog hears better than us
Such a huge amount of useful info. Thanks Danny. Also just to note, I changed all my Receptacles for my audio to the hospital grade, and used a 20 amp circuit. That alone made a difference. Great stuff.
You totally discount the impedance of the device the cable is connected. Power cable generally are supplying low impedance loads. Emf and induced noise cannot provide sufficient coupling to induce voltage. Also, what do you think the purpose of the power supply is...to convert the incoming ac to lower voltage and then rectify it and filter it. There is so much miss-information in this video you should consider taking up politics.
Definitely a good idea to keep interconnects from mains cables but in my time, no recording studio or mastering suite that I have visited had any fancy expensive mains cables.
Back in the day I had a friend who built recording studios as his business. The electrical systems in these recording studio he built are all custom built for purpose. I had even seen one studio with huge transformers installed in the back of the building. I assume that is why the power coming out from the outlets are clean and there is no need for power conditioning or the sort.
@@jasonleyson7825 given the amount of money audiophiles put into line conditioners and magic cables, over and over again, they could do the same for their home.
@@jasonleyson7825 Hi, there are a kind or triphasic power transformer used for "isolates" the secondary to the grid or primary circuit from electrical perturbations, noises, transitoires and electrical short circuit. It's made using a specific type i.e. of star delta connection and design. They are called "power transformer for isolation" . Could be this
Danny, I think it’s time to invite Amir to your premises so you can demonstrate and he can test - play around. Your knowledge and understanding will converge. Before that though - go and break bread, have breakfast or lunch together. Oblique ‘back and forth’ public conversations with an audience that will never promote collegial discourse has, predictably, got you off to a bad start, and no good will really come of it (except for TH-cam’s ‘click’ revenue)… whereas collaborative interaction may bring some really superb advancement of knowledge… and starve some trolls of oxygen. You and Jay set a terrific template for this recently. It was absolutely superb!
What's funny is well designed gear have power supplies with insane RF filtering (e.g. -30dB down from FCC Class-B standards in the case of the Mola Mola Tambaqui) and tight regulation of the output, so cable on the planet can possibly make any difference to an audio component which is competently designed.
All of the cable arguments STOP when when an experienced electronics tech tests all the cable nonsense with an oscilloscope! Period - end of story. An o-scope is millions of times more sensitive than even Superman's hearing. Shielded cables have their place as does balanced cable circuits. I'm just glad that I don't have audio OCD nor the money to spend on overpriced copper conductors.
Oscilloscope cant hear music. It only test and display voltage signals as waveforms, visual representations of the variation of voltage over time. Only test with oscp i would intrest of is from the wall outlet with generic cable transfering current to the amp, and with fat cooper shielded audiophile fancy cable measured with oscilloscope, but in point conection to the ampliefier. Put the volume on amp at 11 o clock. We want check if maybe fat cable will deliver more calories :) But it still not show all the components of the signal. Osciliscope doesnt know how to any parts of signal component tranfers into the sound, how many components are crucial to that sound. I give you an analogy. we got concred brige and an equivalet of osciloscope that is a machine that put freasure to that brige to test in tons how much can it handle. It showed 18 tons. But in practice you can safly cross that brige with 30 ton truck, cause the machine is limited to only point pressure measurment. The same thing is with oscilloscope. It's limited to it functions, and the data can be misunderstood if someone doesnt know all the components that makes an audio signal optimal. You dont know and oscilloscope doesn't know. Now there are two of you, that dont know :)
@@sheerenergy8602 Really? A highly sensitive oscilloscope can't measure every millionth or billionth of a second down to a millionth of a volt? Dang, you must be really smart and have decades of electronics experience. Thank you for your valuable input because I never knew that the human ear could pick up megacycles of frequency in the gaseous medium of air.
@@welderfixer First of all do the reading with understanding. I paste you a part of definition of oscilloscope. And it measures only that, nothing more. I said nothing about accuracy. I highlight that it cant maesure every componet of signal. Osciloscope dosnt know if it measures Panasonic or Krell. All of the componets of the audio signal combined cant be measured in one or a few devices. So the best overall measuring test bench are still our ears! Chnaging skinny generic power cord to a fat good quality one, make a big sound upgrade. Deal with it :)
@@sheerenergy8602 "Oscilloscope cant hear music." "Osciloscope dosnt know if it measures Panasonic or Krell." Why would it need to know that? Music doesn't pass through the power chord. You're obfuscating the real point of the measurement, which is about the delta between a standard power chord and a supposed "high quality" power chord. An oscilloscope allows you to measure a signal at any point in time with much higher precision than any of our senses. The data it captures fully describes the behaviour of the signal we are interested in, whether that be noise from the power line or musical signals further down the signal chain. It's built-in functions allow us to perform bijective transforms to anaylyse the data visually and not leave anything to chance or bias.
@@iliketoast-q9b LOL - tats your problem. That data analys is bijective to you and you dont want to hear anythig else. You can be simply even a "literate"(dont know how to read and write) and you can check for yourself swiching a cord can give you a more chunky substancial bass or/and some other aspects. Another problem of your is that, I know that measurments for more than 20 years But oscilloscope doesn't show "how come" (easy) current is when it's tranfered thru better quality of copper for instance. Even the same cable vary only in diameter 2,5mm2 vs 4mm2 measures the same, but we all know that ticker in most cases have more "oomph". And do you know why measurments looks almost exactly the same? Because you doing mesurments on the same gear/devices. It has its max consumtion and it wont take more. Oscilloscope dont "seeing" every kind of noise, influance etc.
i worked at a power supple company for over two decades and we had a high end Marconi receiver we used to test our power supplies for compliance with the UL requirement for conducted and radiated noise. That taught me how important conductor orientation as well as component orientation is when you want to reduce susceptibility to radiated noise. Quite a few of today's products use switch mode power supplies, if these are well designed they should not cause to much interference but be aware that quite a few small switch mode power bricks are not well designed when it comes to noise and some of the certifications you see stamped on them is just eyewash. Any country that would put melamine in baby food has to be watched carefully and their products have to be periodically checked to make sure they are complying with radiated noise requirements because they might change vendors and not realize the new vendors supplies are not what they think they are
I believe the Man who has the formal education in electronics, worked for Microsoft for decades using that electronics education and is using common sense science to debunk companies. Amir has compared $1000 cables vs $10 cables and further more he is not selling us anything. He recommends using cheaper cables and to save your money.
If you use any critical thinking, most of the stuff Amir claims does not make sense. Probably a reason he no longer works at MS, which is not a Hifi company BTW.
@Pete from across the street it makes perfect sense. You measure resistant/continuity between cables. They measure the same. Why pay $1k vs $5. He measures $5k vs a $100 Dac both measure same. He recommends save your money buy the cheaper Dac. That's common sense.
@@ichigobankai2343 I did try it for myself from the expensive cables, Dacs and speakers to the cheaper stuff. Heck my speaker collection consists of Paradigm, Polk, Infinity, Kef, JVC, Samsung and Sony.
Well, anyone that has ever done this stuff before knows that the guy doing the switching is going to see the cables. So it can't be double blind. However, we have done blind comparisons hundreds of times. I would love to have Amir over for one of those, but he will never come.
@@dannyrichie9743 sorry, I meant single blind with you listening and him switching, how many times out of 10 do you think you would be correct? I assume 9 out of 10 would prove the point?
I think its best tor try ot yourself and see if it works and you can hear the difference rather than listening to other people. Thats is what I did a very long time ago.
@@dannyrichie9743 You need to understand what double blind means and how it can be achieved. It’s not rocket science even though it might be too much for you to understand.
Double-blind testing. I've never seen a double-blind test showing an audible improvement for an expensive power cable. Until I see that test, I'm with Amir on this one. But I'll go with Danny on his improvements to stock Klipsch speakers. That improvement is both audible and measurable. It's like turning off the "loudness" button on an old receiver. The only audible noise I've ever had came from a ground loop. And that had nothing to do with the power cable.
Once I started listening to the music instead of listening to the audiophile mags telling how awesome raising my cables off the dreaded carpet and put expensive magic dots the size of a quarter on my speakers wall ceilings expensive magic clocks expensive cables makes dramatic differences, I realized how much shit recording there. The best test that had all the audio mags in a hissy fit was a comparison between speakers where all the speakers were behind a curtain and the same with amps where on both the listeners did not know what they were listening to. That mag was called Stereo Review. It was a cosmic eye opener. And a whole year of anger from Harry Pearson from the Absolute Sound Stereophile. That’s about the time I started listening to the music instead of looking and judging my equipment. Speaking of looking the other mag that at the time debunked audiophiles was Audio Magazine who pointed out how reviewers without realizing it describing the sound of equipment was in direct comparison on the look of the build. What’s Astonishing is the Absolute sound admitted it with the review of a massive amp in price size and tank build quality. The reviewer panned the amp by the way. I spent more time on my room and position and enjoy my music. I also do agree with your breakdown of some of the shit build quality on some high end speakers. Yup that’s life choices and different tastes.
I bought some bulk Furutech power cable years ago, and of all cables I have replaced in my system. The power cable is the one that I heard the greatest difference from. Which is kind of ironic since it was the one I was expecting the least from. I didn't notice a difference on every device I plugged in, but on some it was clearly there.
Funny stuff. I install million dollar lab equipment. Measures stuff to the angstrom level....NEVER had power cord issues, and it's all generic, computers, and hard use power cords, even inside the equipment, is some pretty generic, cheap wires........but somehow audio, is always different when it comes to electrical stuff. Funny, you ain't quite Seinfeld, but funny none the less
In my RF lab I have to network analyzers, Phase Noise analyzers, Noise figure analyzers, Spectrum Analyzers, various RF generators; from around 5Hz to 110GHz and every thing going on standard computer power cables. The most what I see is cell signal leakage for components that are soldered to open test boards.
Both you two refer to measuring s😅me thing we don't listen to, which is the problem of measuring sound. That v or amperage or capacitance or... It's like saying wine is 13% I measured it, but then it shouldn't taste different. Huh....
@@iBeaver1973 Huh? Wine is 13%, what does that even mean. Wait, yes when making wine they do MEASURE, alcohol content, and sugars, and all kinds of other parameters. Why is freaky home audio such a mystery? cus marketeers have you all bamboozles with total nonsense. the food you eat is measured, water is MEASURED, for it's contents and lack of contents...."audio" is such a mystery....oy vey. I guess telephones work, cus they just didn't measure nutin'.
@@iBeaver1973 Yeah because audio we listen is a reproduction. It is possible to measure the difference between the original and reproduction. Wine is wine. Audio measurements are not about how amazing audio sounds, they are about how different reproduction sounds compared to the original recording. That's why your wine analogy doesn't make any sense. Imagine a chef has a recipe and you follow that recipe. In this analogy, recording is chef's recipe and dac/adc/amp is how you follow the recipe. I can measure how different your meal tastes compared to the chef's recipe. That's what audio measurements show.
I like this back and forth. I watch you and Amir both I'll like your comment on his assertion that once power goes into a component it is filtered for noise and stabilized before being used. Thanks.
If the null test noise (regardless of it beeing a difference of random noises) was below 93dB in level you would have to play plenty loud and then wait for your ears to stop protecting themselves to be able to distinguish the noise at all. Every sound comparable in frequency also increasing the masking effect. It’s not really scientific to say the cause of the experience of sound difference is due to sound altered by the noise in cables? That would be a jump into a conclusion from interpretation ignoring the psychoacoustics.
@@DescartesRenegade So far 100% of everyone that has ever been over has not only heard differences but correctly and consistently identified what those differences are.
I find it bizarre how you measure speakers which is science to design a crossover but you accuse Amir of not being scientific by doing measurements to show two power cables have no electrical or interference differences. If you really want to put this to bed, organise an ABX test with yourself and Amir as listeners but run by someone independent.
Amir demonstrates through measurements the difference. I'm open to differences being immeasurable however I'm not aware of any ABX testing done where the people who claim a difference between power cables actually proved it. The burden of proof is on you and simply saying hundreds of people, who potentially have confirmation bias is not proof. No different than the millions who believe in Gods
Calling people names because they have a different opinion, or idea is not having fun. It is plain and simple bullying, something everyone should have learned when they were a child.
@@freone111 as long as you keep the right power cable on it and have it elevated the proper distance from the floor should sound as good as any McIntosh or Accuphase.
I prefer the Inuit cables which need to be kept at a 15 degree inclination, with the highest end at the amplifier. Reversing the inclination tires out the electrons, causing a fatigued sound.
Hi. I'm a bit confused. You say your interconnects works like a filter. Do you mean a filter on the actual audio being transfered in the cable? If so, how do you secure you only filter the "noise" and not any of the actual audio signal. I don't get the science behind that?
How much do you know about power supplies? Everything I have that needs a power cable has a power supply. How does the noise and interference get through the power supply, and into the audio signal path?
I don't think ASR "hates" you. It's just that they do actual measurements, and you can't fight mathematics. --Which begs the question: Are you not sure that YOU are not a flat-earther?
I have done residential home theaters, whole house AV systems, commercial data and security for over 20 plus years and it is a known fact that running any kind of low voltage signals alongside electrical for closer than a foot for more than 3 feet will cause inductance and degrade the signal. Only way around it is to cross at 90 degree angles and when forced 45 degree angles at the least. This is industry knowledge that one must adhere to when running any low voltage cable. I won't go into anymore depth on this as the facts are simple. Ask any professional in the industry and they will agree. Look at BICSI standards even. You are absolutely correct and those who have done the opposite experience a much worse signal with many problems. Btw, love your videos and appreciate what you do, thank you!
You said in the video that, the burn-in is important, because the conductor and dielectric are changing their properties. According to this phenomenon, can you tell what is a life span of a power cable and how often should I replace it?
I burn them in for about 32 hours and then I find that the quality starts to deteriorate at about 50 hours so I use my cables for about 18 before I replace. I of course have a very resolving systems. For less resolving system you can probably use a cable for at least 50 before you notice deterioration.
i joined ASR as quickjack and posted seeking info about some Yamaha 6490 speakers ( the ones we are modding improving ) ! in several related areas, threads i posted something similar and thought it might stimulate discussion ina long dead thread and was falsely accused of being a troll and immediately banned ! this is absurd i am not and admin a dozen FB pages Amir is one of the most arrogant and obnoxious and unfair people i have ever met in m y life it makes NO sense to accuse me of that and ban me forever i am old and 100% disabled vet ( nam era ) and it would be nice to be able to read the reviews and info i have tried many ways to ask that i be forgiven and let back on to no avail this grossly unfair it is hard to imagine a man could be so cruel as he is . there is nothing i can do i feel an utter failure.
If a cable is connected on 1 side and not on the other side it acts as a capacitor meaning there is a current flowing when connected to an AC power supply. When connected to a DC power supply the current will flow at the moment of plugging untill the cable is charged. The current will be higher when the cable is longer. It is a low current but measurable. Please only say things that are correct. With high voltage these charges can be/are deadly. With low voltage and short cables as in your house the effect is still there but very low.
6:00 It blows my mind how a guy with a channel named *Audio Science Review* doesn't understand that a circuit needs to be closed to conduct a test like that. Either he's full Dunning-Kruger or he's intentionally dishonest.
I don’t think it’s a Dunning-Kruger effect or intentional. I like Danny and Amir. Amir is doing his best to test audio gear… taking it for the team. Danny is doing his best to make audio gear with value engineering. I think they should collaborate and make products that are indisputable.
@@epi2045 Look, I think that Amir is advancing his knowledge and appears willing to learn and grow. However, especially in his earlier videos, he exhibited a very poor understanding of certain concepts yet he reported on those concepts with absolute confidence and certainty which is in essence the definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect. But here's the thing. Most working professionals go through a Dunning-Kruger phase. You either learn to embrace criticism and grow OR circum to pride and stagnant.
Hi Danny! You made this video very educational and good! I still do believe that extremely many out there never going to understand the physics in this unfortunately, but hearing is believing, one have to experience this in at least some way to be convinced! I’ve been an audiophile my whole life, and this cable stuff really got my attention when I got older and definitely when I started to work as an audio engineer. I found a very simple way to make people really se the difference, literally. Just connect a ac filter to an older tv and show a black picture or a photo with a lot going on. I never tried your cable but it should do the job, it is stunning how extreme the result is when everything is quiet or when all noise is gone on a screen,. It’s a fact that we can measure what we don’t hear and we can hear stuff that we can’t measure. Thanks for all the interesting videos. I’m going to contact you privately I need some ideas and expertise for a crossover I’m going to build, /Lars Sweden
I'm so glad that I just turn on the music on my cheap, rebuilt RCA floor speakers, and enjoy the music. Non of this worrying about power cables and such. Non of the arrogance that comes with buying $2,000.00 speakers. All done through a mid-grade Marantz that was bought on sale as a closeout. I don't fret over the fact that the new crossovers dont use all air core inductors. As someone with an electronics degree, I totally get the whole components make a difference thing. But in today's economy where food and utilities costs have skyrocketed, I carefully choose the priorities.
Just read the comments on Audio Science Review and they completely rip Danny a fresh one. Destroy his woo woo logic with facts and figures! And SCIENCE Use the cables that are provided with the gear yall!
When part of his "testing" doesn't include actual listening, coupled with his level of arrogance, displays how foolish he and his fanboys are. Just mind numbing
Would listening to a 500$ magic audio crystal be part of your tests, or would you simply dismiss 'magic' as being silly? And btw, Amir does listen to components, in this specific case he explicitly stated that he could not hear a difference.
@@HD-Tech Don't think you're grasping mine. Snake-oil power cable sounds better = flat earth theory. Amir measured output of the device and found them to be identical; no difference to be heard. He disproved the theory. He doesn't need to 'listen' to it... It's like putting two dumbbells on a scale, scale reading 20kg for each, and you going: "But did you weigh them with your arms? derp derp". You don't need to, you just measured them with an instrument far more precise than yourself... 🤦♂
@@literalghost929 He did not test his theory. The fact remains that we know there are sonic differences. If he measure two cables and found them to be the same by his measurements then he is measuring the wrong thing.
@@dannyrichie9743 Can you link us the proof? A proper documented blind test where you or anybody else can tell 2 power cables apart under blind conditions? Your claim that there are differences remains unproven. It's a known fact that humans are fallible and often claim to hear differences where there are none. How do you ensure that the differences are real and not imagined?
Have you guys ever had a look at the cabling behind the drywall / wall-socket? This is so laughable but at the same time it makes me angry. You basically prey on gullible people and steal their money.
I didn't believe all cables sounded the same.... i just noticed thay when i had to use an extension cord in a pinch as a teenager, that it sounded the same as the higher priced popular mechanics cable. Later in college i had a guy quickly change cabkes for me between a budget pair and a multi thousand dollar cable... no difference. Last year in Texas listening to a D'Agnostico and Wilson setup, I was able to hear an issue with a DAC (later confirmed to be a firmware issue that caused some distortion on certain notes) that the participants noticed after I pointed it out and played the right part of the songs to highlight it.
Frankly I don't really care if cables change the sound of an audio system or not. The biggest differencee in sound quality will ALWAYS be the recordings you use. That's why the guys at audio shows still use Steely Dan and Dianna Krall recordings etc. Seek out better recordings not better gear. The value impact is a thousand times greater.
@@dannyrichie9743 Do measurements in the nuclear power industry "theorize" a result when it comes to exposure and safety? Or did Von Neumann and others accurately pave the way for real-world outcomes through data and mathematics? Can you name one thing John Von Neumann was incorrect about?
@@dannyrichie9743 Conservation of information. Every single thing in the universe can be expressed mathematically. That's how some guys started from ideas alone and built things to keep us from speaking German as a requirement some time ago. They were MEN. There is no reason for you not to have findings on paper except laziness or fear.
@@slofty Not everything is expressed mathematically, many things in life are difficult to quantify. What we easily sense by touch, smell, taste or what and how we hear are all good examples.
There is I suppose a hypothesis here that 1. Cables could measure differently/the same (capacitance?) 2. Cables could attract noise dependent on their construction or reject it 3. All cables could sound the same or differently dependent upon their construction or materials used The question is how does or can the above measurably improve/maintain the output from the audio equipment which creates a true hifi presentation from the music source? The main issue Danny has is that Amir measures whereby in terms of cables Danny is pitching a different case - primarily rejection of interference. Rejection of interference can maintain the audio signal since it could avoid distortion. But ultimately every listening room/equipment set up is not the same.
Danny, show us the measurement data from this cable, how you measured (what measurement devices you have used, and what audio equipment was used), show us the difference in audio data with a $3,99 wire from the super market, a "medical licensed" Supra LOrad, a $500 audioquest (or equal brand) and your cable. Only interested in audio signal. And to make measurements complete : use a class D amp, class A/B amp and single ended tube amp. Show us everything so we can replicate the setup. Here you are trying to make a fool of Amir (by saying he does not understand certain aspects). If something is changing the audio signal (as you say for the better), you can measure it Danny. Its as simple as that! Ironically, arent you guys the flat earthers? Denying actual measurements and only bringing asuptions to the conversation?
Taking a bunch of measurements and theorizing a result is what flat earthers do. That's Amir! In the end the test isn't if there is a measurable difference, we already have confirmed that. In the end the test, and real test is if it makes an audible difference. We have confirmed that as well. Case closed.
Dude, your power amp amplifies noise coming in through the PSU? Better replace the PSU because it's broken, I guess? SMDH on all this garbage. XLR cables are needed in pro audio, expensive power cables, however, are not. Because they do nothing for the sound.
Alot of people who dont believe Cables make a difference have not tried playing around with them enough. Alot of stuff matter in a good audio system even as small as the fuse.
Since you always measure your speakers to prove a point, which is great in most cases, why dont you show detailed measurements of your claims about this power cable?
@@dannyrichie9743 Pretty simple: you say noise is reduced. Show that the mains AC power noise is reduced and the same has happened in the output of the audio gear. As for layering soundstage, that is due to channel differential on either level of timing. In other words, the musical signal itself is modified. I showed in null testing this did not happen. But you are welcome to show otherwise. But I suggest first doing a proper blind test with half a dozen audiophiles to make sure said effects are real and not what you imagined with full knowledge of what is being played, or good guesses.
@@AudioScienceReview yes Amir you are the clever guy, all the rest are stupid that spend money in cables with no return, are you so stupid to believe that others spend money just for fun ? Yes, I believe you are.
Amir made a great point, if your cables require 200 hours to become able to achieve what you claim they do, and assuming you desire to put the best possible product in the hands of your customers, why not plug them in and do the "burn in" there at your warehouse? 9 days later you'll have an actually finished product to deliver.
I have said this before. I am from the car audio side. We used to say "keep ground and power cables from signal and speaker cables" If they have to cross, make sure it is as perpendicular as possible. I do the same in my home audio as well. It ain't rocket science.
With old ears & damaged hearing my audio listening skills are limited. Most of my music listening is via distributed audio for background. Bottom line, no need for me to spend gobs of money on expensive audio gear and accessories, I couldn't detect any differences anyway. I enjoy following ASR & GRR, and others, for the information provided. But apparently these people have listening skills far beyond my capabilities. I can understand "directionally correct" and some of the science being applied to hi-end gear. BTW, if I spend a lot of money on some expensive gear, I expect it to measure well scienfifically.
In the car audio world, they always keep power/ground cables separate from the speaker/line cables. If they have to cross, then it should cross perpendicular.
The entire body of the car is connected to negative, or ground as you refer to it. How the hell do these cables you mention run perpendicular to the very thing are enclosed in???
@@paulb4661 you have probably no or any experience troubleshooting noise in a sophisticated Car Audio. I will suggest to do skme research and stop your sarcasm.
Top class video, Danny, as always. Good to see you really state your case cogently & confidently, backed fully by incontrovertible evidence & scientific fact. Really enjoyed this one!
Amir's comments on Danny's selective use of measurements shows Danny is far from unbiased n objective.. He sells overpriced speaker parts etc... Money is Dan's truth
I put your cables on linn 350 active speakers, very noticeable difference in every department. Pure skeptical but pleasantly surprised. Helped my streamer too. It's a few quid but a good upgrade for the money.
silly idea to think the last few feet of cable after passing thru the wires, connectors, transformers, fuses, breakers all the way back from power station to the outlet is going to magically make a difference. If the power cord is of sufficient conductivity it will be just fine. That is science, physics and common sense. Lets be real for a minute please, the fancy power cord is far better at wowing your friends and making you feel like your high end equipment is complete. That is fine and lovely in it own right. There is a need for high end power cables just as there is a need for nice looking designer shoes. They don't perform a function better but they look nice.
You obviously have no experience in this area. Think of a power cable just as a water filter under your sink. Water passed through miles and limes of pipe to get there only to be filtered just before you drink it. Power cables and conditioners do the same thing.
@@dannyrichie9743 Once again, there is no evidence or physics stipulating that your cable filters any noise on mains power. You are working backward from thinking you hear an improvement to causes you imagine that sound good to lay people as an argument. After all, if your cable filtered anything, it would be trivial to show it. You have not which means there is nothing intentional in there to filter. Of course, best filtering is in the audio device just as you describe it! There, voltages and currents are much lower and we want DC anyway so we can filter the heck out of any noise and even distortion on mains. By your notion, it is better for the city to filter the water than you doing it at point of use!
@@dannyrichie9743 I was commenting specifically about power cables, not power conditioners . Conditioners are another topic. On that note, a properly designed power supply in the equipment would effectively filter and convert the power into what is needed. If it requires additional equipment it is poorly designed. Water filtering is a silly comparison. I do admire your efforts though. Thanks for writing back.
@@AudioScienceReview So myself and hundreds of thousands of people all "think" we hear an improvement. We are all just victims of a placebo effect and we don't know what we are talking about. Isn't that a pretty thin argument? You really have nothing to base your views on. You have a belief and you try to make everything fit into that belief system even if the evidence shows otherwise. You are going to have to want to learn if you are going to learn.
@@dannyrichie9743 Yes, you and all of others "think" they hear improvement. There is test equipment to measure difference in performance that fare more sensitive then any human ears.
Hey, where did your first post go? It was really good. I was going to respond to it that I agreed with all of that, but then I couldn't respond to it because it wasn't there anymore.
It's not the responsibility of us cable deniers to prove cables make no difference. It's up to cable believers to prove that they do. With lots of rigorous blind A/B testing.
So why is the last 4 feet worth hundreds of dollars when the walls are full of romex and unshielded wire all the way to the transformer at the street and on to the substation? 😂 I guess some people are just addicted to snake oil.
that's why if you run a serious system, it starts outside with dedicated circuits for your system. if you don't or you cant hear the difference, good on you, save your effort and be happy with it. in many ways, I wish I didn't hear the differences decades ago either.
@@happygil4698 If you don't want to hear the differences, just do a blind test; have someone switch the cables without you knowing which is which, and I guarantee you, 100%, you won't be able to tell the difference between a 2 buck cable and whatever power cable you own.
People that cry snake oil are the people that don't understand what is going on. Your water arrives to your house after passing through miles and miles of pipe. Just before it gets to your sink it passes through a filter. Power works the same way.
Have you ever bothered to test your beliefs? That's the difference between religion and science; religious have blind faith, science is based on experimentation, evidence and fact. If you're interested doing so, a blind test is the simplest and best way to eliminate placebo. Most 'audiophiles' aren't interested in the truth.
I don't know how much difference it makes, I probably don't have the best hearing anymore so perhaps it makes no difference to me personally but I run both my DAC and Power Amp with good aftermarket cables from a Furman Elite-15i power conditioner, my main reason is that this is for my second system in a large bedroom and I am able to put the Furman in the middle of the room away from outlets and place my DAC and Amp close to it without having to run long power cords, it's more of a positioning thing for me and maybe there are some other secondary sound benefits, I don't think it has hurt sonics.
did you try it on the DAC and the pre-amp rather than the power amp, as its supposed to be more of an improvement on the devices at and closer to the sources. and then to the power amps once the upstream coimponents are sorted.
@@stephenyoud6125 My Dac is both a preamp and DAC, it's a Peachtree Audio SONAdac, my amp is a Peachtree Audio 220 power amp, (not the 220se) This is my bedroom system, not my main system so I am not overly anal about it.
@@The_Story_Channel okay. yeah mine is both streamer and pre-amp theLinn Klimax Exakt DSM then the Linn Klimax Exaktbox crossover / DAC but i haven't aded any power conditioners or fancy power cables yet. It's a new built house in Germany. I know a guy who could probably measure the mains noise for me but am busy completing the Home Cinema room right now and then planning upgrades to my Linn Keltik active speakers first. Lots to do.
@@antoniobolgnameyerwe3844 Danny likely isn't the culprit here, what is commonly referred to as 'the YT algorithm' typically is. To give credit where credit is due, I believe him when says he doesn't, just read the comments... And that is very worthy, so for that he definitely has me respect!
@@antoniobolgnameyerwe3844 If a comment was deleted (depending on why) I may not have ever seen it. Once it's gone, it's gone. Profanity will get you deleted every time. Being disrespectful or name calling will get deleted every time as well. I catch and delete one every now and then for that. I don't mind an opposing point of view. Free discussion is a valuable part of our society. You opinions are fine. I do use my discretion to remove false statements that are not worth the time to respond to. For instance, one guy claimed I didn't know anything and didn't even graduate from high school (totally false). I am not going to waste time with guys like that. I hit delete.
@@dannyrichie9743 And my reply got deleted again. Can you please share the algo or setting you are using to delete comments? Because it's pretty pathetic. What word or term did I use that got my comment shadow-deleted? Amir? ASR? Ali? Ebay? I'm genuinely curious.
I have a decent listening system (mytek Manhattan 2, benchmark amps, focal sopra 3's) this is all in a professionally sound treated room, I even had an electrician run dedicated 20 amp power cables and we he took great care to make sure it was separated from anything else in the wall. I have tried many different power and interconnect cables ranging from Pangea to audio quest to nordost....... I have had many local audiophiles come in and do blind tests and the unanimous conclusion is by a fancy cable for looks not performance. The biggest improvement came from the room treatment and speaker placement.
I can see where you are coming from, the best sound improvement I have ever had was when I dropped home runs from the panel, or Main, direct to the AV corner in my living room. At that point, the electrical cords really did not matter on my modest system. Now, where I had a massive improvement in both sound and especially video transmission, was the addition of a filtering network switch. The TV simply POPPED in both color and contrast, it looked like a new TV had been installed. Others asked when I had bought a new TV. I have two switches, one of the $500 LHY units, and one $50 Netgear GS108eV3. I cannot tell the difference between the two, the $50 NetGear unit does everything the $500 LHY unit does, kicking self. Try a NetGear GS108eV3, it is the real deal. Amazon sells them, it does nothing, return it.
Of course the biggest improvement comes from room treatments as expected. But cables does change the sound. In Bass, clarity, separation. You don’t need to be an audiophile to hear it. There is a reason people uses cables to tame their electronics 😅
I'm a big fan of yours, In the UK we refer to the wall fitting as a socket the removable part connected to the power lead as the plug. In the UK in cities the mains power is very noisy.
The screen shot at 28:00 includes any AC noise from the entire system plus the room noise. I did not see any screen shot with the mic gain shut down (off) and just dealing with the AC noise from the mixer and/or the mic pre and the computer power supply. I have always used an MIT power cord on my computer which has lowered the AC noise in my system by -10db. I now also use Furman AC filters on all my gear to clean up all the AC noise from the breaker box. The other issue is what mic are you using? Many mics have close to -20db of self noise, others like the NT-1A from Rode have -4 to -5 db of self noise, extremely quiet. What is left in using those mics is the ambient noise of the room, including the blower from your HVAC system, which hopefully is off when recording. It is one of the reasons I have complained about a company that records in DSD as their room noise floor is over -50 db with their mics open in their studio. NOT ACCEPTABLE. Either their console is noisy from power supply issues, mic preamps, or the mics and the room? Start at the beginning and see what the noise floor of just your computer is with no inputs open into your daw. I am close to -80db.
Your power supply is going to deal with the noise, so it's largely irrelevant. The important thing is whether or not the output of the device (ex; cd player, dac, etc.) is affected by the cable. That's what Armin measured, and there was no difference. That's the only thing that matters.
@@literalghost929 Frustrated that I had to get this far into the comments to finally see some sense... pretty frustrating to see someone with this much audience having absolutely no idea what they're actually "measuring".
What good is fancy AC power cables if your wall outlet is wired with 12 gauge or at best 10 gauge wiring? I don't think many audiophiles would want to wire their wall outlet to the circuit breaker panel with that super AC power cable. With the exception of the power amplifier I run the entire system from a Sola 500 VA CVT (Constant Voltage Transformer) transformer to clean up the AC. Power conditioners are another way to do this. Speaker cables are an exception. I use 1980s vintage Monster cable speaker wires with four 8 gauge litz wire conductors.
80's vintage Monster cable? That stuff is going to be so oxidized through that PVC by now that it isn't even good for jumper cables. You might want to consider new speaker cables.
All true. In hindsight, I spent a long time with a stereo system but it was only in the last 15 years that I realized what a sound stage is and how to bring it out. Better late than never.
More then 20 years ago, I made my first power cable, based on a design from de "twisted snake" TNT site. I couldn't believe the diffrence was that big. It costed me only about 500 Bfr (before the euro, now maybe 15 euro for one cable) But then again I was listening to triode monoblocks and a VTL preamp on Alon speakers. Maybe, I was ready for it ;) So, I know that it's much easier to deny these fact's. (or "because you cant measure it, you can hear it" ). You did a great job of explaning it, in a simple way. 👍
Danny, from the top of my hat, I can’t think of anyone else that could make me watch a 37 minute long video on power cables. As always, you are breaking it down brilliantly for dummies like me. Obviously, this topic is divisive like many other audio related claims are, but it seems logical that noise will degrade the signal and ultimately sound quality. SOLD! 😊
@@sveneisenhauer1 you know what? Seeing how you seem to treat salesmen bs as gospel, you may indeed benefit from third party guidance. I'll do it for a reasonable fee, don't worry... 😉
![GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_7HbjdQRaAM/mqdefault.jpg)
![GR Research B24 AC Cable Review Follow up [Entertainment]](/img/tr.png)
Hi Danny, thanks for putting up this accurate and informative video on power cables. For some additional reference for your viewers, here are links to two videos I made using an Entech power line noise analyzer that demonstrates *_with data_* the impact that well-designed power cords can have on reducing noise from our AC mains. Links here: th-cam.com/video/g2SAj7aKXGo/w-d-xo.html and here: th-cam.com/video/-X9gYpmtlxE/w-d-xo.html ASR likes data? Well, here it is...
Great data and as always Shunyata Research makes great products.
Your test doesn't show what effect the noise reducing cable has on the output of your audio components. Instead you end your video with the statement "you can assume...". So far for objective data.
How come you're getting what appears to be just 1 audio signal? Around here there's dozens of FM and AM radio stations, so if your power did somehow manage to pickup radio signals, wouldn't it just sound like noise, and not like 1 radio station?
@@4everB2 All one has to do is plug it in and listen. A large proportion of the noise from audio systems comes from the components _themselves._ Specifically, their full-wave bridge rectifier power supplies. It's *alternating current,* the current DOES NOT flow just in _one direction_ like water from a hose to a faucet; from the wall rceptacle to the component, in only one direction. It's AC...the current goes INTO the component and back OUT of the component, at *60X/sec.* And, when the the current comes back out of the component, noise components from preamps and amp power supplies are distributed to lower signal source components. It's a SYSTEM: the power distributor prevents noise COMING IN from the AC mains and NR power cords prevent noise from coming BACK OUT of the components.
@@stephenscharf6293 I have tested those meters and the noise they make is NOT proportional to noise on the power line. To wit, I bet you were NOT hearing that Am station on your system. For that to happen, the bandwidth of your audio gear needs to go way higher than audio band. And some sort of demodulation to occur. This can happen with very long runs of audio cables and such but in home scenarios, it is very rare. To the extent your gear does play AM radio, then sure, you can deploy various means to get rid of it or better yet, buy audio gear that is not susceptible to such interference.
As to interference from the AC cable, I had to put a giant transformer right next to the cable to induce any mains noise. And even then, it was way below threshold of audibility. Again, folks are not hearing such interference in their audio gear.
Really, those meters are tools used to sell you things you don't need. Don't put your trust in a silly little meter that doesn't show the spectrum or even tell you what on earth it is spitting out. If you believe in measurements, trust the ones I show where I show the output of audio devices where no impact is shown at all with these cable and power tweeks.
Danny, I've bought your products in the past & probably will again, but, I think in this video one of your "proofs" can be painted with the same brush you use to paint Amir testing with no load. Specifically I am talking about your use of background noise as an analog for noise on a power cable. If you want to show how your power cable protects against noise, just show it.
To show how much your power cable can reduce noise injected into a power supply, setting up a simple test seems pretty straightforward. I might suggest something like the following;
1) An AC power source.
2) A noise source on the same circuit, perhaps fluorescent lights, or some other device(s) which is/are noisy. Make sure the noise source is as far away from the actual test as possible.
3) An standard AC outlet.
4) A standard AC power cord of reasonable quality.
5) A GR Research power cord.
6) A quality power supply either switching or linear.
7 A resistor to act as a load.
8) An oscilloscope to measure noise.
Hook the power supply to the resistor for a load, connect the oscilloscope to the resistor for measurement, attach the power to the power supply with the standard AC power cable. Capture screen shots of the noise artifacts. Then swap in the GR Research cable take the same screen shots and compare. Any differences will show the benefit of the power cable.
The use of the power supply is simple, most if not all power supplies have circuitry to reduce noise in the output DC signal. Different power supplies are more or less effective at this. All audio gear have power supplies to convert the AC to DC and to provide various voltages to different circuits in the equipment. It also means the resistor we need is much more manageable. The reason for a resistor is it shouldn't inject much if any noise into the test.
I don't have an oscilloscope or one of your power cords, or I would try it myself and post the results.
I was thinking the same thing about the noise tests. That is a real leap in logic.
Danny, did I miss the part where you posted all the measurements showing that Amir is wrong?
His own measurements showed that our power cable had noise rejection.
Danny, what is your parts cost for the B24 cable?
@@paulzukowski6551 That is not any of your business.
You can place an RCA"unbalanced" cable near a powercord and hear the buzzing in a speaker when the EMI is strong enough and the cable has poor shielding.
@@stever7638what buzzing? Like bees? Or a 50/60 Hz Earth loop?
Wait. The flat earthers on the ones who hold onto the engineering and measurements? I think you have it backwards dude.
Nope, real science means testing a theory. They don't do that.
@@dannyrichie9743 No, you're the one who refuses to test your theory. Asserting over and over that "it must work because it makes an audible difference" is not testing your theory. It's making a baseless assertion that cannot be - and has not been - verified by anyone else in a properly designed scientific study.
I definitely noticed the long coaxial cable run in ceiling/wall bringing tremendous noise when I put in my Rel 212/sx subs. I had some cheaper subs and it didn’t really have any noise with the same cables. Once I switched to XLR, there was zero noise. So yes, definitely there is interference that goes on with cables, also, the higher-end gear usually will be more sensitive to it.
@@guillermomartin8248 absolutely, but that's with interconnects that carry the signal. An AC cord is a different proposition. And ask yourself - who has plugged in a piece of gear, heard all kinds of interference noise like you did with your Rel subs, and then solved that noise problem with a different AC cord? No one. Balanced interconnects, though, can definitely reduce or solve that kind of problem, and the mechanism by which they do so is well known, easily tested, easily measured, and easily confirmed. Can't say that for Danny's AC cord.
@@mrubengmail Results of our A/C power cable have been easily confirmed.
Danny, do the tests and show your cables make a difference and in what ways and I will buy them. Until them saying you "know" and have done tests doesn't make anyone come to your side. Your product show it and I will agree and buy.
A lot of these audio guys are like politicians. Even if they’re likable and have amazing knowledge, you just have to be careful
@@ramencurry6672 No, it's the people who take a scope and plot a line and tell you how it sounds.....sound familiar? This is without going into a room with a revealing system and letting them show how components can change a system with cables, or whatever.
The ones who deny without auditioning, are really on a bandwagon.
Other than that
@@stever7638 I’ve done the comparison with high end power cables on gear costing thousands of dollars. No difference. ….Also the people with the best golden ears are studio engineers analyzing the tiniest nuances. You never hear them talking about power cables.
@@stever7638 Literally human ears are not anywhere NEAR as sensitive or precise as the high grade test equipment such as the Audio Precision System One and only a fool believes otherwise.
@@Turboy65 I think you're missing my point. High end tube gear can generally sound much better than solid state. But it's not gonna measure that way. And there seems to be a consensus between a group of people, that it doesn't matter how it sounds. It's only how it measures and that's not how it works.
The human ear can distinguish a 1 HZ difference at 400 Hz, that's more than enough resolution.
Wow! Engineer with 20 years of electronics experience here.
First of all, even a fresh graduate engineer would know that it just takes one single and simple step to prove that a cable (or any other product ftm) could reduce electical noise in audio: Record the same output signal from the same playback device under the same conditions with different cables and compare the noise levels. This video does everything but.
Furthermore, the narrative is deceptive in nature. In the part where a red line and a green line are shown as noise graphs: That is NOT not isolated electrical noise. It is the actual noise of the surroundings being recorded by the mic. There is a fan running in the background while recording!!! A power cable can do nothing about it. It's like plugging a power cable to reduce the grains in an old recording or remove pop and scratch noises from vynil.
Just like:
It takes looking at a handful of objective indicators to actually understand earth is round, but they always get skipped or ignored by flat earthers. It's RICH to call anyone else flat earthers.
I can't believe there are actual human beings praising this video...
You might need to watch it again. 25:30 mark. We are going to "illustrate" noise levels.... I explained that they were not the same, but for illustration purposes it worked great in showing how random A/C noise levels are.
Dear @@dannyrichie9743 the noise you're "illustrating" has NOTHING To do with electrical noise. While common AC noise may or may not be out of phase, however, EMI noise is on phase as picked up by two cables side by side. "Illustrating" room noise as analogous as electrical noise is misleading and irrelevant to the actual question: Can an AC cable actually reduce electrical or EMI noise? If it could, it could easily be proven with a VERY SIMPLE experiment I outlined in my previous message. You don't need a 40 min-long video to "talk" about it, just demonstrate it: Record the same output signal from the same playback device under the same conditions with different cables and compare the noise levels on the scope. It's that simple.
You're also pretending as if modern audio electronics don't have purpose built internal electrical noise filters already. They do, and pretending that any AC noise makes their way directly into the audio signal path as-is, is pretty deceiving if not totally oblivious in the first place.
@@hankkirk944 Oh yeah, my illustration easily showed the randomness of noise. Everyone else got it. You are just being continuous.
A/C noise easily finds its way onto the audio signal. It is even present on digital cables. If you think the power supplies will remove it all then you are very naive.
@@dannyrichie9743 Let's go your way, can you tell me how balanced XLR cables are able to cancel out EMI noise through reversing the polarity?
@@hankkirk944 That was explained in the video.
Are you sure about how the balanced signal works? It sure doesn't work like that in industry. The inverter signal and the non-inverted signal is feed to a differential amp. Since both lines were subject to the same noise environment the polarities of that noise should also be in phase. But since a differential amp is used on the input the noise will be rejected by the amplifier input stage. This is called common mode rejection.
...add to this the StarQuad geometry in balanced cables and the Common Mode Rejection Ratio of the circuit, Common Mode Noise is not an issue...
Really? Is the particular cable in question remotely near a StarQuad config? No! Hos power cable isn’t even shielded! Sounds like you guys should go work with Amir.
@@izumispa2993 Did you watch the complete video? He jumps back and forth between the characteristics of a good power and cable and interconnects with differential inputs. I do have a lot more respect for Amir, he isn't selling snake oil and elixirs. He backs up most of his positions with science and good engineering. However, I have had my disagreements with Amir in past as well.
@@johndavidson6433 so have I. He seems to know enough about what he's saying so that a laymen would be convinced that he is non-bias. With that said, he's trying to convince the average listener; who has moderately good stereo equipment. Not to spend money on high end attachments that may have little to no effect on your equipment! In other words 89 octane works very well in most domestic cars. Changing to 93 or 100 octane will make very little to no difference to your car power. However, in a Bugatti or Porsche etc... going from 93 to 98 or even 100 octane. Can increase your engine power by 15 to 30%!
A salesman trying to educate an Engineer.............Danny you are quite entertaining for sure, I love most of your videos, but in all fairness YOU ARE DOING THIS AS A BUSINESS,....Amir is doing this as a HOBBY and is a neutral participant. You bickering with him over his measurements etc is protecting what you sell. We all get that. When you bicker about ASR you get more views also. We get that. But in the end, anyone educated in electronics or audio engineering sees it all for what it is. You mix 50% actual facts with a bit of snake oil, and hope no one realizes.
Well said, brother
@As the World Burns he makes these claims that the engineering is superior. He also does not state that any of these specs make something sound better. He's using ACTUAL SCIENCE to provide usable data. ZERO SNAKE OIL.
@astheworldburns3590Amir is honest about the difference between objective testing and subjective testing.
I am an engineer myself, but Amir is everything except being objective and neutral.
In fact, he already wrongly advised people certain things, like EQ'ing destructive (port) resonance dips.
Which doesn't even do anything (since it's a destructive resonance), it even can overload and damage your speakers.
But the list goes on and on. Which is fine by itself, except that Amir is 100% closed off for any kind of critique.
Kind of ironic when someone calls himself "scientific".
I like the mission he's on, but definitely not his attitude.
All that being said, I totally agree with the rest of what you said btw! :)
I also am an engineer. It not salesmen trying to educate engineers here but engineers who think they are engineers, but aren’t. Amir said it best…just because you passed a few courses in school doesn’t mean you understand the practical uses of the theory.
"there's NOISE in the AC Line"
Yeah, but the Power Supply in any equipment is converting the "noisy AC" coming out of your wall socket into CLEAN DC before feeding it into the noise sensitive components, so...
That's one of the basics he chooses to ignore here. He knows this, but chooses his words carefully. His main goal is to keep selling the snake oil, obviously. This is all a performance, and attempt to keep scamming people who don't know this. I'm also pretty sure he bans all of our comments, too, if he can. He dug himself a too deep hole. Public cannot see this, I mean look at the comments, people know he's a liar.
So you are telling me, that the point of cutting costs(power supply) for more earnings in $ is so perfect it changes water into a wine??? LOL. Power conditioners that are a size of an amp is a compromise in terms of optimal signal.
It's easier to clean power when it was pre cleaneg by some bit before. Especialy that cleaner biult in the amp is not so great.
Depends on the quality of the power supply.
@@sheerenergy8602 Isn't there a difference to cleaning power with an amp sized conditioner before a system and having a solid gold cable going from the wall to the system (ignoring all the qualities or problems from the power station to your wall socket.) I don't think a cable no matter how expensive can claim passive conditioning.
@@spudpud-T67
You are one of that guys who tells around that cables in the wall are shitty to the outlet and from there im using more expensive cables and you dont see no point in that.
Well im seeing it and enjoying my improvments in sound.
And you don't even know that gold is less conductive than copper.😂
And if you hace a house and you can do two or 3 separate electric circuts its recomended. Noisy machines on one and audio euip on the second.
Power conditioner can be used in many houses when you move out or when you renting a condo/room. I dont need to crush any walls.
Problems of conditioners they are expensive and limiting dynamics vs bare outlet.
Oh good ,another pissing Match between someone who knows what he's talking about vs Danny " I'm a salesman selling any high dollar contraption with 100 % zero proof of what he says ".
Well said, Danny is clearly extremely ignorant.
If I was starting over with what I know now I would have treated my room before I upgraded anything.
I wish more people knew this
It is always easy to look back with wisdom.
@@dannyrichie9743 hindsight is 20/20
Fixing the room via layout or treatment is the best bang for buck there is.
Yup, a cheap good speaker in a good room will sound way better than crazy expensive ones in a toilet. Room treatmemt is where people should dump their money in before anything else.
Judging by some of the responses below it seems that there are some folks that don't know what a 'double blind' experiment is. Yes is can be conducted for a cable test.
Definition:
"A type of clinical trial in which neither the participants nor the researcher knows which treatment or intervention participants are receiving until the clinical trial is over. This makes results of the study less likely to be biased."
A third person administers the treatment or in this case the cable selection. Probable a single blind test is all that is required.
A lot to unpack here. 1st, I always thought the "flat earthers" reference belonged to the "we know", "it's common sense", "it's obvious" group and the "non-flat earthers" were the ones that used engineering, testing and measuring to scientifically prove their point. After all, virtually any 2nd year engineering student can prove mathematically that the earth is round. As in all conspiracies, he who labels a conspiracy 1st, has the high ground. 2. With cables, Amir's point was totally missed and misconstrued. Take a cable loop with an AC current of one amp and place another closed loop cable parallel to it and you can calculate the induced current! EVEN if they are a MILE from each other! It is simple mathematics and physics--not brain surgery. The question is not, DOES IT HAPPEN, BUT, DOES IT MAKE AN AUDIBLE DIFFERENCE! The same is true for a piece of wire acting as an antenna--as Amir said, any wire not properly shielded will act as an antenna! BUT DOES IT MAKE AN AUDIBLE DIFFERENCE!!?? I would have to go back and look at Amir's video but I believe Danny confused and misconstrued Amir's analysis and description of these two totally different effects---that is induced voltages and antenna affects. Amir frequently will tell you that a product does exactly what it is "advertised to", as in a power supply conditioner, but then he will tell you that it is not necessary, nor audible, and show the measurements to prove it and THIS is the point of Amir's test and reviews! Now, one can use all the soft spoken, not name calling words of "everyone knows", it's common sense", my "30 years of experience', etc but in doing so one has not proved a single thing to refute Amir's scientific, test and measurements. And yet, Amir has offered many many times a chance for one and all to prove him wrong by submitting a scientific, peer reviewed, double-blind study proving that one could HEAR the difference. He will even republish it! But of course, that would be a waste of time because the real flat earthers, "know', "have the common sense", have "the years of experience" etc that would make a peer review double-blind scientific study a waste of time and money.
In full disclosure, I am an electrical engineer older than I ever thought I would be, coming from a heavy industrial background. I love watching videos produced by both Danny and Amir. Both have knowledge and experience that has helped me tremendously in my futile search for audio nirvana.
The problem there is that we already know and have proven hundreds of times that there are audible differences. Amir is just taking a handful of rudimentary measurements that don't show a measured difference and is theorizing a result. The fact is that we already know there is an audible difference and for Amir to get nothing to confirm it means he is measuring the wrong things. Also, anyone throwing out the terms "double blind" has never conducted a cable comparison.
Why I enjoy both Danny and Amir's videos, when it comes to cables making a difference I say show me the scientific, peer reviewed, double-blind study. If you can tell a difference as stated, the the study will not contradict that. If study does show that, then I will admit that there is a difference. But I doubt this outcome. Everything I have seen so far does not support hearing a difference in a power cable for example.
For such a long and contentious argument, running a scientific, peer reviewed, double-blind study seems rather trivial. I have been waiting years for this and I challenge Danny and Amir to come together to do this.
@@todd8155 Good grief people. It is not possible to compare cables "double blind". You have no idea what goes into a cable comparison. We've made and have done blind comparisons all the time. It is how we develop products like these. So we know we can back up what we say.
@dannyrichie9743 - Sure it is. You are smart guys. You can figure it out.
Here's a simple method requiring only three people, two rooms, a buzzer, and some paper:
1) A person (the switcher) in a separate room that would get a one-way signal, like a buzzer going off, then manually switch cables, noting the time and writing result on paper.
2) A Conductor that runs the test and presses the switch button. The conductor notes the time of the switch and the test results on paper. He is with the listener.
3) Listener(s).
The test conductor, and listener(s) would be together in a separate room from the switcher and there would be no information flow from the switcher to the conductor or listener(s). Double blind, simple, cheap. What's so hard or impossible about that?
Here is a more complex scenario:
Create a switching box that is CPU controlled (a Raspberry Pi some relays, some code, and not much more). It would randomly switch the outputs when you pressed a switch, then spit out the switching results after the test. I would bet that some of yours or Amir's listeners would be willing to create such a device (it is beyond my skill level.) It is anything but impossible.
This is an experiment that is demanding to be done, and should have been done decades ago IMO.
I mean, with some support from manufactures, I would be willing to set this up. I am sure that you have two rooms, one that can contain the equipment and switcher, close to another listening room with the conductor and listener. We could challenge leading industry types and TH-camrs to take the double-blind listening challenge. Surely this would be one of the greatest experiments in audio listening to date. Blind is not double blind. To me this a basic tenant of scientific research.
Until this is done, you will never convince some people. I myself would like to be proven wrong, but really, don't believe that I am. I can admit that I am wrong and ultimately I believe you to have integrity and the ability and humility to admit when one is wrong.
I challenge Amir @audiosciencereview to join in. I challenge both sides to accept the results of this challenge, whatever they may be.
Like I’ve said, it ain’t brain surgery.
Why can't we measure and show the differences? Do we lack the resolution in the sampling equipment to show the nuance of change from one cable to the next?
One thing I agree with Amir is that measuring electrical properties of a cable is somewhat useless when it's the net effect in the system that matters.
Can we have a cable with better conductivity and noise reduction that actually results in subjectively worse sound at the listening position?
And what is the cable changing? Because if it's frequency response, a cable would be a terrible way to accomplish that task when you could alternatively just... EQ
if equipment can't detect it … Shure as hell human ears will not... our ears are crap even in the animal kingdom domain, any cat or dog hears better than us
Such a huge amount of useful info. Thanks Danny. Also just to note, I changed all my Receptacles for my audio to the hospital grade, and used a 20 amp circuit. That alone made a difference.
Great stuff.
You totally discount the impedance of the device the cable is connected. Power cable generally are supplying low impedance loads. Emf and induced noise cannot provide sufficient coupling to induce voltage. Also, what do you think the purpose of the power supply is...to convert the incoming ac to lower voltage and then rectify it and filter it. There is so much miss-information in this video you should consider taking up politics.
YES! THANK YOU!
Definitely a good idea to keep interconnects from mains cables but in my time, no recording studio or mastering suite that I have visited had any fancy expensive mains cables.
That's why those old recordings sound like shit.
& they are usually a mess; cables chris crossing all over the place...mmm...
Back in the day I had a friend who built recording studios as his business. The electrical systems in these recording studio he built are all custom built for purpose. I had even seen one studio with huge transformers installed in the back of the building. I assume that is why the power coming out from the outlets are clean and there is no need for power conditioning or the sort.
@@jasonleyson7825 given the amount of money audiophiles put into line conditioners and magic cables, over and over again, they could do the same for their home.
@@jasonleyson7825 Hi, there are a kind or triphasic power transformer used for "isolates" the secondary to the grid or primary circuit from electrical perturbations, noises, transitoires and electrical short circuit. It's made using a specific type i.e. of star delta connection and design. They are called "power transformer for isolation" . Could be this
Danny, I think it’s time to invite Amir to your premises so you can demonstrate and he can test - play around. Your knowledge and understanding will converge. Before that though - go and break bread, have breakfast or lunch together. Oblique ‘back and forth’ public conversations with an audience that will never promote collegial discourse has, predictably, got you off to a bad start, and no good will really come of it (except for TH-cam’s ‘click’ revenue)… whereas collaborative interaction may bring some really superb advancement of knowledge… and starve some trolls of oxygen.
You and Jay set a terrific template for this recently. It was absolutely superb!
I'd love to. I'd welcome it. I'd even take him out for some Texas BBQ.
@@dannyrichie9743 - enough of the BBQ talk now. Next thing I’ll be on a jet over there 😆
He’s been invited a bunch of times over the years to many manufacturers. Free of charge! He flat out refuses every single time!
Power cable made mostly from rope makes the saying 'Money for old rope' literal.
The rope is used to lower capacitance.
@@dannyrichie9743 Makes it look substantial as well.
What's funny is well designed gear have power supplies with insane RF filtering (e.g. -30dB down from FCC Class-B standards in the case of the Mola Mola Tambaqui) and tight regulation of the output, so cable on the planet can possibly make any difference to an audio component which is competently designed.
Yet, the most well designed gear respond best to clean power, and allow differences in cables to be heard more easily.
All of the cable arguments STOP when when an experienced electronics tech tests all the cable nonsense with an oscilloscope! Period - end of story. An o-scope is millions of times more sensitive than even Superman's hearing. Shielded cables have their place as does balanced cable circuits. I'm just glad that I don't have audio OCD nor the money to spend on overpriced copper conductors.
Oscilloscope cant hear music. It only test and display voltage signals as waveforms, visual representations of the variation of voltage over time.
Only test with oscp i would intrest of is from the wall outlet with generic cable transfering current to the amp, and with fat cooper shielded audiophile fancy cable measured with oscilloscope, but in point conection to the ampliefier.
Put the volume on amp at 11 o clock. We want check if maybe fat cable will deliver more calories :)
But it still not show all the components of the signal.
Osciliscope doesnt know how to any parts of signal component tranfers into the sound, how many components are crucial to that sound.
I give you an analogy. we got concred brige and an equivalet of osciloscope that is a machine that put freasure to that brige to test in tons how much can it handle. It showed 18 tons. But in practice you can safly cross that brige with 30 ton truck, cause the machine is limited to only point pressure measurment. The same thing is with oscilloscope. It's limited to it functions, and the data can be misunderstood if someone doesnt know all the components that makes an audio signal optimal. You dont know and oscilloscope doesn't know. Now there are two of you, that dont know :)
@@sheerenergy8602 Really? A highly sensitive oscilloscope can't measure every millionth or billionth of a second down to a millionth of a volt? Dang, you must be really smart and have decades of electronics experience. Thank you for your valuable input because I never knew that the human ear could pick up megacycles of frequency in the gaseous medium of air.
@@welderfixer First of all do the reading with understanding. I paste you a part of definition of oscilloscope. And it measures only that, nothing more. I said nothing about accuracy. I highlight that it cant maesure every componet of signal.
Osciloscope dosnt know if it measures Panasonic or Krell.
All of the componets of the audio signal combined cant be measured in one or a few devices.
So the best overall measuring test bench are still our ears! Chnaging skinny generic power cord to a fat good quality one, make a big sound upgrade. Deal with it :)
@@sheerenergy8602 "Oscilloscope cant hear music." "Osciloscope dosnt know if it measures Panasonic or Krell." Why would it need to know that? Music doesn't pass through the power chord.
You're obfuscating the real point of the measurement, which is about the delta between a standard power chord and a supposed "high quality" power chord. An oscilloscope allows you to measure a signal at any point in time with much higher precision than any of our senses. The data it captures fully describes the behaviour of the signal we are interested in, whether that be noise from the power line or musical signals further down the signal chain. It's built-in functions allow us to perform bijective transforms to anaylyse the data visually and not leave anything to chance or bias.
@@iliketoast-q9b LOL - tats your problem. That data analys is bijective to you and you dont want to hear anythig else.
You can be simply even a "literate"(dont know how to read and write) and you can check for yourself swiching a cord can give you a more chunky substancial bass or/and some other aspects.
Another problem of your is that, I know that measurments for more than 20 years
But oscilloscope doesn't show "how come" (easy) current is when it's tranfered thru better quality of copper for instance. Even the same cable vary only in diameter 2,5mm2 vs 4mm2 measures the same, but we all know that ticker in most cases have more "oomph".
And do you know why measurments looks almost exactly the same? Because you doing mesurments on the same gear/devices. It has its max consumtion and it wont take more.
Oscilloscope dont "seeing" every kind of noise, influance etc.
i worked at a power supple company for over two decades and we had a high end Marconi receiver we used to test our power supplies for compliance with the UL requirement for conducted and radiated noise. That taught me how important conductor orientation as well as component orientation is when you want to reduce susceptibility to radiated noise.
Quite a few of today's products use switch mode power supplies, if these are well designed they should not cause to much interference but be aware that quite a few small switch mode power bricks are not well designed when it comes to noise and some of the certifications you see stamped on them is just eyewash. Any country that would put melamine in baby food has to be watched carefully and their products have to be periodically checked to make sure they are complying with radiated noise requirements because they might change vendors and not realize the new vendors supplies are not what they think they are
Hi!
I am an EE and I will just advise you that everything this person says here is babbling nonsense.
yeah...this BS is for audiofools only....people with more money than sense....
"I'm not gonna make fun" ... too late!
Sum (or difference) of uncorrelated RMS noise powers add.
I believe the Man who has the formal education in electronics, worked for Microsoft for decades using that electronics education and is using common sense science to debunk companies. Amir has compared $1000 cables vs $10 cables and further more he is not selling us anything. He recommends using cheaper cables and to save your money.
If you use any critical thinking, most of the stuff Amir claims does not make sense. Probably a reason he no longer works at MS, which is not a Hifi company BTW.
@Pete from across the street it makes perfect sense. You measure resistant/continuity between cables. They measure the same. Why pay $1k vs $5. He measures $5k vs a $100 Dac both measure same. He recommends save your money buy the cheaper Dac. That's common sense.
@@adaboy4z Dont blindly believe what other people say unless you've tried it for yourself first.
@@Pete.across.the.street Like what? Can you name 2-3 things?
@@ichigobankai2343 I did try it for myself from the expensive cables, Dacs and speakers to the cheaper stuff. Heck my speaker collection consists of Paradigm, Polk, Infinity, Kef, JVC, Samsung and Sony.
why not run a double blind test with your power cord, let Amir moderate and see where the dust settles.
Well, anyone that has ever done this stuff before knows that the guy doing the switching is going to see the cables. So it can't be double blind. However, we have done blind comparisons hundreds of times. I would love to have Amir over for one of those, but he will never come.
@@dannyrichie9743 sorry, I meant single blind with you listening and him switching, how many times out of 10 do you think you would be correct? I assume 9 out of 10 would prove the point?
@@peter3728 Not a problem.
I think its best tor try ot yourself and see if it works and you can hear the difference rather than listening to other people. Thats is what I did a very long time ago.
@@dannyrichie9743 You need to understand what double blind means and how it can be achieved. It’s not rocket science even though it might be too much for you to understand.
Double-blind testing. I've never seen a double-blind test showing an audible improvement for an expensive power cable. Until I see that test, I'm with Amir on this one. But I'll go with Danny on his improvements to stock Klipsch speakers. That improvement is both audible and measurable. It's like turning off the "loudness" button on an old receiver. The only audible noise I've ever had came from a ground loop. And that had nothing to do with the power cable.
Once I started listening to the music instead of listening to the audiophile mags telling how awesome raising my cables off the dreaded carpet and put expensive magic dots the size of a quarter on my speakers wall ceilings expensive magic clocks expensive cables makes dramatic differences, I realized how much shit recording there. The best test that had all the audio mags in a hissy fit was a comparison between speakers where all the speakers were behind a curtain and the same with amps where on both the listeners did not know what they were listening to. That mag was called Stereo Review. It was a cosmic eye opener. And a whole year of anger from Harry Pearson from the Absolute Sound Stereophile. That’s about the time I started listening to the music instead of looking and judging my equipment. Speaking of looking the other mag that at the time debunked audiophiles was Audio Magazine who pointed out how reviewers without realizing it describing the sound of equipment was in direct comparison on the look of the build. What’s Astonishing is the Absolute sound admitted it with the review of a massive amp in price size and tank build quality. The reviewer panned the amp by the way. I spent more time on my room and position and enjoy my music. I also do agree with your breakdown of some of the shit build quality on some high end speakers. Yup that’s life choices and different tastes.
I bought some bulk Furutech power cable years ago, and of all cables I have replaced in my system. The power cable is the one that I heard the greatest difference from. Which is kind of ironic since it was the one I was expecting the least from. I didn't notice a difference on every device I plugged in, but on some it was clearly there.
This is perfect explanation of why sighted testings are flawed & how strong placebo is.
Funny stuff. I install million dollar lab equipment. Measures stuff to the angstrom level....NEVER had power cord issues, and it's all generic, computers, and hard use power cords, even inside the equipment, is some pretty generic, cheap wires........but somehow audio, is always different when it comes to electrical stuff. Funny, you ain't quite Seinfeld, but funny none the less
In my RF lab I have to network analyzers, Phase Noise analyzers, Noise figure analyzers, Spectrum Analyzers, various RF generators; from around 5Hz to 110GHz and every thing going on standard computer power cables.
The most what I see is cell signal leakage for components that are soldered to open test boards.
Both you two refer to measuring s😅me thing we don't listen to, which is the problem of measuring sound. That v or amperage or capacitance or...
It's like saying wine is 13% I measured it, but then it shouldn't taste different. Huh....
@@iBeaver1973 Huh? Wine is 13%, what does that even mean. Wait, yes when making wine they do MEASURE, alcohol content, and sugars, and all kinds of other parameters. Why is freaky home audio such a mystery? cus marketeers have you all bamboozles with total nonsense. the food you eat is measured, water is MEASURED, for it's contents and lack of contents...."audio" is such a mystery....oy vey. I guess telephones work, cus they just didn't measure nutin'.
@@iBeaver1973 Yeah because audio we listen is a reproduction. It is possible to measure the difference between the original and reproduction. Wine is wine. Audio measurements are not about how amazing audio sounds, they are about how different reproduction sounds compared to the original recording. That's why your wine analogy doesn't make any sense.
Imagine a chef has a recipe and you follow that recipe. In this analogy, recording is chef's recipe and dac/adc/amp is how you follow the recipe. I can measure how different your meal tastes compared to the chef's recipe. That's what audio measurements show.
I like this back and forth. I watch you and Amir both I'll like your comment on his assertion that once power goes into a component it is filtered for noise and stabilized before being used. Thanks.
If that were true then the power cables like ours would have no audible effect, but they do.
If the null test noise (regardless of it beeing a difference of random noises) was below 93dB in level you would have to play plenty loud and then wait for your ears to stop protecting themselves to be able to distinguish the noise at all. Every sound comparable in frequency also increasing the masking effect.
It’s not really scientific to say the cause of the experience of sound difference is due to sound altered by the noise in cables? That would be a jump into a conclusion from interpretation ignoring the psychoacoustics.
@@martinenstrom8206 Or it could be in reality not 93db down.
@@martinenstrom8206 well said!
@Cody Smith We have proven it hundreds of times.
How do you "debunk" anything by just yapping? Show us the evidence.
Come on over.
@@dannyrichie9743 measurements of before and after cable. Null test.
@@DescartesRenegade The proof is in the listening.
@@dannyrichie9743 so if one person doesn't hear a change, does that mean there's no change?
@@DescartesRenegade So far 100% of everyone that has ever been over has not only heard differences but correctly and consistently identified what those differences are.
That very last clip was his own ammo lol! Can't cry when you loaded the gun
I find it bizarre how you measure speakers which is science to design a crossover but you accuse Amir of not being scientific by doing measurements to show two power cables have no electrical or interference differences.
If you really want to put this to bed, organise an ABX test with yourself and Amir as listeners but run by someone independent.
Amir takes measurements then theorizes a result. That is not science.
I would also be glad to have Amir over for listening comparisons.
Amir demonstrates through measurements the difference.
I'm open to differences being immeasurable however I'm not aware of any ABX testing done where the people who claim a difference between power cables actually proved it. The burden of proof is on you and simply saying hundreds of people, who potentially have confirmation bias is not proof. No different than the millions who believe in Gods
Besides earbuds, I think Amir does have some high-end headphones (Dan Clark Stealth).
Probably only uses the stock headphone cables, too.
@@tubefreeeasy I don't follow him closely enough to know, but it wouldn't surprise me.
37 min of proving nothing………😂
Calling people names because they have a different opinion, or idea is not having fun. It is plain and simple bullying, something everyone should have learned when they were a child.
I still don't understand why everyone isn't using French braided power cables, 11.25" off the ground.
Hey you are here Buddy🙂 please dont stop looking for the YAMAHA sound 😄✌️
@@freone111 as long as you keep the right power cable on it and have it elevated the proper distance from the floor should sound as good as any McIntosh or Accuphase.
I prefer the Inuit cables which need to be kept at a 15 degree inclination, with the highest end at the amplifier. Reversing the inclination tires out the electrons, causing a fatigued sound.
😂😂
@Hastings Piper You can't even structure a proper sentence so how can anyone take you seriously?
Yes, when doing PA installs I use Canaire quad speaker and line cables. 4 twisted wires speaker to deal with longer runs.
Hi. I'm a bit confused. You say your interconnects works like a filter. Do you mean a filter on the actual audio being transfered in the cable? If so, how do you secure you only filter the "noise" and not any of the actual audio signal. I don't get the science behind that?
No science required, just money.
How much do you know about power supplies?
Everything I have that needs a power cable has a power supply.
How does the noise and interference get through the power supply, and into the audio signal path?
I don't think ASR "hates" you. It's just that they do actual measurements, and you can't fight mathematics. --Which begs the question: Are you not sure that YOU are not a flat-earther?
I have done residential home theaters, whole house AV systems, commercial data and security for over 20 plus years and it is a known fact that running any kind of low voltage signals alongside electrical for closer than a foot for more than 3 feet will cause inductance and degrade the signal. Only way around it is to cross at 90 degree angles and when forced 45 degree angles at the least. This is industry knowledge that one must adhere to when running any low voltage cable. I won't go into anymore depth on this as the facts are simple. Ask any professional in the industry and they will agree. Look at BICSI standards even. You are absolutely correct and those who have done the opposite experience a much worse signal with many problems.
Btw, love your videos and appreciate what you do, thank you!
That's why star quad is used in AV production, especially studios-- but the power cables are normal.
You said in the video that, the burn-in is important, because the conductor and dielectric are changing their properties. According to this phenomenon, can you tell what is a life span of a power cable and how often should I replace it?
often
@@spudpud-T67 Thank you for the advice. After this answer I already know when to change the cables.
I burn them in for about 32 hours and then I find that the quality starts to deteriorate at about 50 hours so I use my cables for about 18 before I replace. I of course have a very resolving systems. For less resolving system you can probably use a cable for at least 50 before you notice deterioration.
BURN IN TIME FOR A CABLE...!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Most excellent for layman terms explained in a reasonable manner, my cables are from box to audio hard wired no noise or conditioner needed.
I'm curious. Why do you say, "those on the left", when talking about cable skeptics? What does left or right have to do with it? Is this political?
Ecclesiastes 10: 2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.
@@dannyrichie9743 Psalm 55:21: His speech was smooth as butter, yet war was in his heart; his words were softer than oil, yet they were drawn swords.
i joined ASR as quickjack and posted seeking info about some Yamaha 6490 speakers ( the ones we are modding improving ) ! in several related areas, threads i posted something similar and thought it might stimulate discussion ina long dead thread and was falsely accused of being a troll and immediately banned ! this is absurd i am not and admin a dozen FB pages Amir is one of the most arrogant and obnoxious and unfair people i have ever met in m y life it makes NO sense to accuse me of that and ban me forever i am old and 100% disabled vet ( nam era ) and it would be nice to be able to read the reviews and info i have tried many ways to ask that i be forgiven and let back on to no avail this grossly unfair it is hard to imagine a man could be so cruel as he is . there is nothing i can do i feel an utter failure.
If a cable is connected on 1 side and not on the other side it acts as a capacitor meaning there is a current flowing when connected to an AC power supply. When connected to a DC power supply the current will flow at the moment of plugging untill the cable is charged. The current will be higher when the cable is longer. It is a low current but measurable. Please only say things that are correct. With high voltage these charges can be/are deadly. With low voltage and short cables as in your house the effect is still there but very low.
The ending had me rolling.
6:00 It blows my mind how a guy with a channel named *Audio Science Review* doesn't understand that a circuit needs to be closed to conduct a test like that.
Either he's full Dunning-Kruger or he's intentionally dishonest.
I don’t think it’s a Dunning-Kruger effect or intentional. I like Danny and Amir. Amir is doing his best to test audio gear… taking it for the team. Danny is doing his best to make audio gear with value engineering. I think they should collaborate and make products that are indisputable.
@@epi2045 Dan is doing his best for Danny
@@epi2045 Look, I think that Amir is advancing his knowledge and appears willing to learn and grow. However, especially in his earlier videos, he exhibited a very poor understanding of certain concepts yet he reported on those concepts with absolute confidence and certainty which is in essence the definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
But here's the thing. Most working professionals go through a Dunning-Kruger phase. You either learn to embrace criticism and grow OR circum to pride and stagnant.
@@epi2045 That is best case scenario. The only thing restricting this is the other party is very closed minded.
circuit was closed; plugged into a preamp.
Hi Danny! You made this video very educational and good! I still do believe that extremely many out there never going to understand the physics in this unfortunately, but hearing is believing, one have to experience this in at least some way to be convinced! I’ve been an audiophile my whole life, and this cable stuff really got my attention when I got older and definitely when I started to work as an audio engineer. I found a very simple way to make people really se the difference, literally. Just connect a ac filter to an older tv and show a black picture or a photo with a lot going on. I never tried your cable but it should do the job, it is stunning how extreme the result is when everything is quiet or when all noise is gone on a screen,. It’s a fact that we can measure what we don’t hear and we can hear stuff that we can’t measure. Thanks for all the interesting videos. I’m going to contact you privately I need some ideas and expertise for a crossover I’m going to build, /Lars Sweden
Thank you, always enjoy your videos. I purchased your speaker cables and was amazed at the difference.
I'm so glad that I just turn on the music on my cheap, rebuilt RCA floor speakers, and enjoy the music.
Non of this worrying about power cables and such.
Non of the arrogance that comes with buying $2,000.00 speakers.
All done through a mid-grade Marantz that was bought on sale as a closeout.
I don't fret over the fact that the new crossovers dont use all air core inductors.
As someone with an electronics degree, I totally get the whole components make a difference thing.
But in today's economy where food and utilities costs have skyrocketed, I carefully choose the priorities.
We make high quality, budget level, DIY speaker kits for guys just like you. You have to prioritize your expenses.
funny video, like a child trying to argue that magic is real but using grown ups terminology
An ASR fanboy detected...
Just read the comments on Audio Science Review and they completely rip Danny a fresh one.
Destroy his woo woo logic with facts and figures! And SCIENCE
Use the cables that are provided with the gear yall!
ripped a fresh one 😲oouch! 😂😂🤣🤣🍻🍻😁😁
😂😂🤡🐑 not a single real audiophile wants anything to do with this clown. Everyone in the industry and the real audiophiles just laughs at Amir.
They do that with everyone over there that goes against their belief system.
When part of his "testing" doesn't include actual listening, coupled with his level of arrogance, displays how foolish he and his fanboys are. Just mind numbing
Would listening to a 500$ magic audio crystal be part of your tests, or would you simply dismiss 'magic' as being silly? And btw, Amir does listen to components, in this specific case he explicitly stated that he could not hear a difference.
@@literalghost929 You're making my point
@@HD-Tech Don't think you're grasping mine. Snake-oil power cable sounds better = flat earth theory. Amir measured output of the device and found them to be identical; no difference to be heard. He disproved the theory.
He doesn't need to 'listen' to it... It's like putting two dumbbells on a scale, scale reading 20kg for each, and you going: "But did you weigh them with your arms? derp derp". You don't need to, you just measured them with an instrument far more precise than yourself... 🤦♂
@@literalghost929 He did not test his theory. The fact remains that we know there are sonic differences. If he measure two cables and found them to be the same by his measurements then he is measuring the wrong thing.
@@dannyrichie9743 Can you link us the proof? A proper documented blind test where you or anybody else can tell 2 power cables apart under blind conditions?
Your claim that there are differences remains unproven. It's a known fact that humans are fallible and often claim to hear differences where there are none. How do you ensure that the differences are real and not imagined?
Have you guys ever had a look at the cabling behind the drywall / wall-socket? This is so laughable but at the same time it makes me angry. You basically prey on gullible people and steal their money.
I didn't believe all cables sounded the same.... i just noticed thay when i had to use an extension cord in a pinch as a teenager, that it sounded the same as the higher priced popular mechanics cable.
Later in college i had a guy quickly change cabkes for me between a budget pair and a multi thousand dollar cable... no difference.
Last year in Texas listening to a D'Agnostico and Wilson setup, I was able to hear an issue with a DAC (later confirmed to be a firmware issue that caused some distortion on certain notes) that the participants noticed after I pointed it out and played the right part of the songs to highlight it.
It seems that proper measurements do affect the sales of snake oil after all.
Shhhh...don't tell anyone, but I built my own little nuke plant in my basement. Sure, it gets REALLY hot, but my power is clean as a whistle!
That last clip. 😆
Frankly I don't really care if cables change the sound of an audio system or not. The biggest differencee in sound quality will ALWAYS be the recordings you use. That's why the guys at audio shows still use Steely Dan and Dianna Krall recordings etc. Seek out better recordings not better gear. The value impact is a thousand times greater.
Amirm has a large amount of measuremnts that makes his side of the argument very compelling, can you show us measurable differences, Thanks!
The problem is that from his measurements he only theorizes a result.
@@dannyrichie9743 Do measurements in the nuclear power industry "theorize" a result when it comes to exposure and safety? Or did Von Neumann and others accurately pave the way for real-world outcomes through data and mathematics?
Can you name one thing John Von Neumann was incorrect about?
@@slofty The discussion is about what is audible or what is not. It is not about nuclear power.
@@dannyrichie9743 Conservation of information. Every single thing in the universe can be expressed mathematically. That's how some guys started from ideas alone and built things to keep us from speaking German as a requirement some time ago. They were MEN.
There is no reason for you not to have findings on paper except laziness or fear.
@@slofty Not everything is expressed mathematically, many things in life are difficult to quantify. What we easily sense by touch, smell, taste or what and how we hear are all good examples.
There is I suppose a hypothesis here that
1. Cables could measure differently/the same (capacitance?)
2. Cables could attract noise dependent on their construction or reject it
3. All cables could sound the same or differently dependent upon their construction or materials used
The question is how does or can the above measurably improve/maintain the output from the audio equipment which creates a true hifi presentation from the music source?
The main issue Danny has is that Amir measures whereby in terms of cables Danny is pitching a different case - primarily rejection of interference. Rejection of interference can maintain the audio signal since it could avoid distortion. But ultimately every listening room/equipment set up is not the same.
Danny, show us the measurement data from this cable, how you measured (what measurement devices you have used, and what audio equipment was used), show us the difference in audio data with a $3,99 wire from the super market, a "medical licensed" Supra LOrad, a $500 audioquest (or equal brand) and your cable. Only interested in audio signal. And to make measurements complete : use a class D amp, class A/B amp and single ended tube amp.
Show us everything so we can replicate the setup.
Here you are trying to make a fool of Amir (by saying he does not understand certain aspects). If something is changing the audio signal (as you say for the better), you can measure it Danny. Its as simple as that!
Ironically, arent you guys the flat earthers? Denying actual measurements and only bringing asuptions to the conversation?
Taking a bunch of measurements and theorizing a result is what flat earthers do. That's Amir!
In the end the test isn't if there is a measurable difference, we already have confirmed that.
In the end the test, and real test is if it makes an audible difference. We have confirmed that as well.
Case closed.
Dude, your power amp amplifies noise coming in through the PSU? Better replace the PSU because it's broken, I guess? SMDH on all this garbage. XLR cables are needed in pro audio, expensive power cables, however, are not. Because they do nothing for the sound.
Alot of people who dont believe Cables make a difference have not tried playing around with them enough. Alot of stuff matter in a good audio system even as small as the fuse.
@Cody Smith Thank you for your sarcasm. God bless you.
Since you always measure your speakers to prove a point, which is great in most cases, why dont you show detailed measurements of your claims about this power cable?
How would you like them measured, and what measurement do you think will correlate to a more open and layer sound stage (for instance)?
@@dannyrichie9743 Pretty simple: you say noise is reduced. Show that the mains AC power noise is reduced and the same has happened in the output of the audio gear. As for layering soundstage, that is due to channel differential on either level of timing. In other words, the musical signal itself is modified. I showed in null testing this did not happen. But you are welcome to show otherwise. But I suggest first doing a proper blind test with half a dozen audiophiles to make sure said effects are real and not what you imagined with full knowledge of what is being played, or good guesses.
@@AudioScienceReview Amir, your null test is well, null!
@@AudioScienceReview yes Amir you are the clever guy, all the rest are stupid that spend money in cables with no return, are you so stupid to believe that others spend money just for fun ?
Yes, I believe you are.
@@AudioScienceReview your group keep saying do a BLIND TEST and you yourselves do not do any listening in a properly set up system.
The most fun I ever had in the hobby is building your speaker cable.
Give studying electronics a go - lots more fun
Amir made a great point, if your cables require 200 hours to become able to achieve what you claim they do, and assuming you desire to put the best possible product in the hands of your customers, why not plug them in and do the "burn in" there at your warehouse? 9 days later you'll have an actually finished product to deliver.
Burning in 20 or 30 cables at a time is not practical and uses a lot of electricity. That will have to be done by each customer.
I have said this before. I am from the car audio side. We used to say "keep ground and power cables from signal and speaker cables" If they have to cross, make sure it is as perpendicular as possible. I do the same in my home audio as well. It ain't rocket science.
With old ears & damaged hearing my audio listening skills are limited. Most of my music listening is via distributed audio for background. Bottom line, no need for me to spend gobs of money on expensive audio gear and accessories, I couldn't detect any differences anyway. I enjoy following ASR & GRR, and others, for the information provided. But apparently these people have listening skills far beyond my capabilities. I can understand "directionally correct" and some of the science being applied to hi-end gear. BTW, if I spend a lot of money on some expensive gear, I expect it to measure well scienfifically.
In the car audio world, they always keep power/ground cables separate from the speaker/line cables. If they have to cross, then it should cross perpendicular.
We are on the same page,and the oscilloscope is like Matthew, Mark, and Luke .
Many tech and common sense details👍👍👍👍
You are 100% correct. Fellow Car Audio guy here🙂👍signal cables separate from power wire too.
@@freone111 Sounds like car guys need to show these "audiophiles" how to do things.
The entire body of the car is connected to negative, or ground as you refer to it. How the hell do these cables you mention run perpendicular to the very thing are enclosed in???
@@paulb4661 you have probably no or any experience troubleshooting noise in a sophisticated Car Audio. I will suggest to do skme research and stop your sarcasm.
This simply should be labeled as fraud and deleted.
Indeed, much of hifi is fraud. I‘m sure Danny knows what he is doing but carries on because it makes him a good living.
Love the ending, LOL!
Top class video, Danny, as always. Good to see you really state your case cogently & confidently, backed fully by incontrovertible evidence & scientific fact. Really enjoyed this one!
Amir's comments on Danny's selective use of measurements shows Danny is far from unbiased n objective.. He sells overpriced speaker parts etc... Money is Dan's truth
@@matthewtaylor7355 You haven't made any cable comparisons have you?
I put your cables on linn 350 active speakers, very noticeable difference in every department. Pure skeptical but pleasantly surprised. Helped my streamer too. It's a few quid but a good upgrade for the money.
its called expectation bias.
It's called placebo effect y'all.
CORRECT...Your brain hears, what your ears can't! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
silly idea to think the last few feet of cable after passing thru the wires, connectors, transformers, fuses, breakers all the way back from power station to the outlet is going to magically make a difference. If the power cord is of sufficient conductivity it will be just fine. That is science, physics and common sense. Lets be real for a minute please, the fancy power cord is far better at wowing your friends and making you feel like your high end equipment is complete. That is fine and lovely in it own right. There is a need for high end power cables just as there is a need for nice looking designer shoes. They don't perform a function better but they look nice.
You obviously have no experience in this area. Think of a power cable just as a water filter under your sink. Water passed through miles and limes of pipe to get there only to be filtered just before you drink it. Power cables and conditioners do the same thing.
@@dannyrichie9743 Once again, there is no evidence or physics stipulating that your cable filters any noise on mains power. You are working backward from thinking you hear an improvement to causes you imagine that sound good to lay people as an argument. After all, if your cable filtered anything, it would be trivial to show it. You have not which means there is nothing intentional in there to filter.
Of course, best filtering is in the audio device just as you describe it! There, voltages and currents are much lower and we want DC anyway so we can filter the heck out of any noise and even distortion on mains. By your notion, it is better for the city to filter the water than you doing it at point of use!
@@dannyrichie9743 I was commenting specifically about power cables, not power conditioners . Conditioners are another topic. On that note, a properly designed power supply in the equipment would effectively filter and convert the power into what is needed. If it requires additional equipment it is poorly designed. Water filtering is a silly comparison. I do admire your efforts though. Thanks for writing back.
@@AudioScienceReview So myself and hundreds of thousands of people all "think" we hear an improvement. We are all just victims of a placebo effect and we don't know what we are talking about. Isn't that a pretty thin argument? You really have nothing to base your views on. You have a belief and you try to make everything fit into that belief system even if the evidence shows otherwise. You are going to have to want to learn if you are going to learn.
@@dannyrichie9743 Yes, you and all of others "think" they hear improvement. There is test equipment to measure difference in performance that fare more sensitive then any human ears.
looking forward to Amir's response to this...
Also the same applies to running HDMI, coax, and any non electrical low voltage cables
Hey, where did your first post go? It was really good. I was going to respond to it that I agreed with all of that, but then I couldn't respond to it because it wasn't there anymore.
Thank you
I edited it but couldn’t save it because it had a link. So I deleted it made the correction and reposted it. JK
What? If a low voltage cable is "non electrical" how does a low voltage cable work?
It's not the responsibility of us cable deniers to prove cables make no difference. It's up to cable believers to prove that they do. With lots of rigorous blind A/B testing.
So why is the last 4 feet worth hundreds of dollars when the walls are full of romex and unshielded wire all the way to the transformer at the street and on to the substation? 😂
I guess some people are just addicted to snake oil.
that's why if you run a serious system, it starts outside with dedicated circuits for your system.
if you don't or you cant hear the difference, good on you, save your effort and be happy with it.
in many ways, I wish I didn't hear the differences decades ago either.
th-cam.com/video/BH1q4E296yM/w-d-xo.html
Shhh, you’re messing up Danny’s sales pitch with logic and reason.
@@happygil4698 If you don't want to hear the differences, just do a blind test; have someone switch the cables without you knowing which is which, and I guarantee you, 100%, you won't be able to tell the difference between a 2 buck cable and whatever power cable you own.
People that cry snake oil are the people that don't understand what is going on.
Your water arrives to your house after passing through miles and miles of pipe. Just before it gets to your sink it passes through a filter. Power works the same way.
Listen to Eric Dubay before you mock the idea of the earth being a flat, non rotating plane ✌🏼
I’m a believer especially when it comes to the sonic differences of a power cable. Honestly I was shocked (no pun intended).
Have you ever bothered to test your beliefs? That's the difference between religion and science; religious have blind faith, science is based on experimentation, evidence and fact. If you're interested doing so, a blind test is the simplest and best way to eliminate placebo. Most 'audiophiles' aren't interested in the truth.
I don't know how much difference it makes, I probably don't have the best hearing anymore so perhaps it makes no difference to me personally but I run both my DAC and Power Amp with good aftermarket cables from a Furman Elite-15i power conditioner, my main reason is that this is for my second system in a large bedroom and I am able to put the Furman in the middle of the room away from outlets and place my DAC and Amp close to it without having to run long power cords, it's more of a positioning thing for me and maybe there are some other secondary sound benefits, I don't think it has hurt sonics.
did you try it on the DAC and the pre-amp rather than the power amp, as its supposed to be more of an improvement on the devices at and closer to the sources. and then to the power amps once the upstream coimponents are sorted.
@@stephenyoud6125 My Dac is both a preamp and DAC, it's a Peachtree Audio SONAdac, my amp is a Peachtree Audio 220 power amp, (not the 220se)
This is my bedroom system, not my main system so I am not overly anal about it.
@@The_Story_Channel okay. yeah mine is both streamer and pre-amp theLinn Klimax Exakt DSM then the Linn Klimax Exaktbox crossover / DAC but i haven't aded any power conditioners or fancy power cables yet. It's a new built house in Germany. I know a guy who could probably measure the mains noise for me but am busy completing the Home Cinema room right now and then planning upgrades to my Linn Keltik active speakers first. Lots to do.
@@stephenyoud6125 👊😎
Why are you deleting comments?
Comments only get deleted here for profanity, being disrespectful of others, or stating something blatantly false.
@@dannyrichie9743 Ha. So in other words nothing my comment did. I hereby ask you to reinstate it. Thanks.
@@antoniobolgnameyerwe3844 Danny likely isn't the culprit here, what is commonly referred to as 'the YT algorithm' typically is. To give credit where credit is due, I believe him when says he doesn't, just read the comments... And that is very worthy, so for that he definitely has me respect!
@@antoniobolgnameyerwe3844 If a comment was deleted (depending on why) I may not have ever seen it. Once it's gone, it's gone. Profanity will get you deleted every time. Being disrespectful or name calling will get deleted every time as well. I catch and delete one every now and then for that. I don't mind an opposing point of view. Free discussion is a valuable part of our society. You opinions are fine. I do use my discretion to remove false statements that are not worth the time to respond to. For instance, one guy claimed I didn't know anything and didn't even graduate from high school (totally false). I am not going to waste time with guys like that. I hit delete.
@@dannyrichie9743 And my reply got deleted again. Can you please share the algo or setting you are using to delete comments? Because it's pretty pathetic. What word or term did I use that got my comment shadow-deleted? Amir? ASR? Ali? Ebay? I'm genuinely curious.
I have a decent listening system (mytek Manhattan 2, benchmark amps, focal sopra 3's) this is all in a professionally sound treated room, I even had an electrician run dedicated 20 amp power cables and we he took great care to make sure it was separated from anything else in the wall. I have tried many different power and interconnect cables ranging from Pangea to audio quest to nordost....... I have had many local audiophiles come in and do blind tests and the unanimous conclusion is by a fancy cable for looks not performance. The biggest improvement came from the room treatment and speaker placement.
I can see where you are coming from, the best sound improvement I have ever had was when I dropped home runs from the panel, or Main, direct to the AV corner in my living room. At that point, the electrical cords really did not matter on my modest system. Now, where I had a massive improvement in both sound and especially video transmission, was the addition of a filtering network switch. The TV simply POPPED in both color and contrast, it looked like a new TV had been installed. Others asked when I had bought a new TV. I have two switches, one of the $500 LHY units, and one $50 Netgear GS108eV3. I cannot tell the difference between the two, the $50 NetGear unit does everything the $500 LHY unit does, kicking self. Try a NetGear GS108eV3, it is the real deal. Amazon sells them, it does nothing, return it.
Of course the biggest improvement comes from room treatments as expected. But cables does change the sound. In Bass, clarity, separation. You don’t need to be an audiophile to hear it. There is a reason people uses cables to tame their electronics 😅
“On the left…”???? What are you inferring here?
Yeah caught that too.....that's saying something about a person.....
Ecclesiastes 10:2 A wise person’s heart directs him toward the right, but the foolish person’s heart directs him toward the left.
@@dannyrichie9743 hmmm, Danny. SMH.
The fact that he keeps referring to the "flat earther's" as "the left" speaks volumes about this guy.
I believe the Earth is flat, biblically and commonsense. But, I like Danny, and am a customer, and voting for Trump, again.
Ecclesiastes 10: 2 The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left.
He’s correct. People on the left know so much. Must that isn’t so
Well I am sry , I do respect your knowledge in speakers but when it comes up to cables is just nahhhhhh
Great Explanation Danny! Thank you for making this video!
I'm a big fan of yours, In the UK we refer to the wall fitting as a socket the removable part connected to the power lead as the plug. In the UK in cities the mains power is very noisy.
It is? How so, mine is fine!
🤣🤣
@@supernovaf1 so is mine
😂😂 THE LAST CLIP 😂😂
... just plain bananas
The screen shot at 28:00 includes any AC noise from the entire system plus the room noise. I did not see any screen shot with the mic gain shut down (off) and just dealing with the AC noise from the mixer and/or the mic pre and the computer power supply. I have always used an MIT power cord on my computer which has lowered the AC noise in my system by -10db. I now also use Furman AC filters on all my gear to clean up all the AC noise from the breaker box. The other issue is what mic are you using? Many mics have close to -20db of self noise, others like the NT-1A from Rode have -4 to -5 db of self noise, extremely quiet. What is left in using those mics is the ambient noise of the room, including the blower from your HVAC system, which hopefully is off when recording. It is one of the reasons I have complained about a company that records in DSD as their room noise floor is over -50 db with their mics open in their studio. NOT ACCEPTABLE. Either their console is noisy from power supply issues, mic preamps, or the mics and the room? Start at the beginning and see what the noise floor of just your computer is with no inputs open into your daw. I am close to -80db.
Your power supply is going to deal with the noise, so it's largely irrelevant. The important thing is whether or not the output of the device (ex; cd player, dac, etc.) is affected by the cable. That's what Armin measured, and there was no difference. That's the only thing that matters.
@@literalghost929 Frustrated that I had to get this far into the comments to finally see some sense... pretty frustrating to see someone with this much audience having absolutely no idea what they're actually "measuring".
What good is fancy AC power cables if your wall outlet is wired with 12 gauge or at best 10 gauge wiring? I don't think many audiophiles would want to wire their wall outlet to the circuit breaker panel with that super AC power cable. With the exception of the power amplifier I run the entire system from a Sola 500 VA CVT (Constant Voltage Transformer) transformer to clean up the AC. Power conditioners are another way to do this. Speaker cables are an exception. I use 1980s vintage Monster cable speaker wires with four 8 gauge litz wire conductors.
80's vintage Monster cable? That stuff is going to be so oxidized through that PVC by now that it isn't even good for jumper cables. You might want to consider new speaker cables.
All true.
In hindsight, I spent a long time with a stereo system but it was only in the last 15 years that I realized what a sound stage is and how to bring it out. Better late than never.
More then 20 years ago, I made my first power cable, based on a design from de "twisted snake" TNT site. I couldn't believe the diffrence was that big. It costed me only about 500 Bfr (before the euro, now maybe 15 euro for one cable)
But then again I was listening to triode monoblocks and a VTL preamp on Alon speakers. Maybe, I was ready for it ;)
So, I know that it's much easier to deny these fact's. (or "because you cant measure it, you can hear it" ).
You did a great job of explaning it, in a simple way. 👍
Danny you're one of the most knowledgeable HiFi guys on the net. We absolutely appreciate all your patience educating us.
Danny, from the top of my hat, I can’t think of anyone else that could make me watch a 37 minute long video on power cables. As always, you are breaking it down brilliantly for dummies like me. Obviously, this topic is divisive like many other audio related claims are, but it seems logical that noise will degrade the signal and ultimately sound quality. SOLD! 😊
Man, you're every peddler dreams come true...
Was more cable related in general, not necessarily power cables, but glad to see you guys care…. 😉
@@yantrussart6584 I’d make sure to consult with you first before making any purchasing decisions. 😉
@@sveneisenhauer1 you know what? Seeing how you seem to treat salesmen bs as gospel, you may indeed benefit from third party guidance. I'll do it for a reasonable fee, don't worry... 😉