I'm going to make a bold prediction on your future model railroad, Dave you are going to have a huge amount of fun doing the parts that you truly enjoy about the hobby. Take your time working on your new layout and remember measure twice and cut once! When it comes to doing scenery do it in small batches and move to the next small spot as far away from the last spot as possible and repeat. When I did my current N-Scale layout I started doing scenery at one end of my layout and worked to the opposite end and as my skills got better as I progressed the less happy I was with what I had done initially so much so that I ended up redoing about 1/4 of my layout. If I had done it as a patch work I could blended the scenes together so that the contrast would have been less apparent.
Dave do you need to have loops you could have it go around over the lift bridge then you could have nice smooth curves and work it all from the centre or beef out the loop areas to ease them while your are still at this stage All the best Mate Mark 😊😊
My layout is HO in an insulated garden shed. I live in the southern US. Considering the vast amount of rolling stock you have I suggest this: A twice around oval on two levels. Near a corner of the lower level fashion a crossing with an interchange. The continuous running will pass through this interchange bypassing the actual diamond. Beyond the diamond in both directions place two stub ended staging yards. This way you can run point to point while another train circles the continuous run. Both trains using the same two lap oval with passing sidings(I have three). You have so much equipment. This has worked very well for me. On mine there are 3 staging tracks at each end plus three passing sidings on the main. That gives 5 points where trains can meet. And it still gives space for scenery, etc..... The staging yards are underneath the upper level of track and have removable sections of scenery for access. Train length is dictated by stage track length. Each yard has two 6 foot tracks and one 8 ft track. Not the biggest but quite flexible for me. Incidentally my shed is only 8x12 with two tracks on the liftout.
Hey Dave, Great video. Tracks, tracks tracks ... The possibilities make my head spin like a wheel. I'm going through the very same process for my layout. Everyone's railroad is a personal expression, limited by the constrains of one's own space. As a wise man once said concerning model railroad track plans: "You can argue with a ruler as much as you want, but the ruler will always win !" You're doing a great job so keep it up... However I'd like to mention in passing the possibilities oft he importance of choosing the "best" turnout (size). Turnout (frog) size correspond to curve radius. For concrete example using No 4 turnouts are equivalent to 18" curves. I use No 4's in yards and No 6's on mains that I want to have no speed restrictions on. If one is going to run 24" - 30" curves with large locomotives and full length passenger cars then this might be the appropriate locations to to consider using No 6's on those main.] Again, do your thing. I am totally enjoying accompanying you on your journey !
Nice progress with the new layout. I love your seat-of-the-pants style approach. Seems to work for you and you learn new things along the way. Just a suggestion for when it comes time to lay the roadbed, try soaking the cork in a bucket, it should be become more pliable and less likely to fight you when being bent in a curve.
Nice sweeping curves Dave, a great amount of space for scenics too. I like your intial ideas. LOL, nae switching! I love switching......as you know. Ties in the industries I put on the layout. I think you're layout is cool, it's what you like to see and do, which is exactly how it should be. Enough room for a narrow gauge line? oof!, what am I like! Good update, now get that cork done........:)
a trick my dad showed me was go off your largest and longest locomotive and freight car/passager car because those will tell you where your going to bind up certain 6 axle locomotives don't like 18 curves and also make sure you don't hit the wall with locomotives going around curse near walls
Plan looks alright, but I would do less of the tracks parallel to the edge(s) of the layout. Also do other angles than just the 90/180 degrees. It makes the layout look more 'natural' and will give more angles for building the scenery as well. Just a suggestion... (I love the bridge construction, by the way)
I did that wiggly track thing on the last layout. It just gives me more track alignment issues. If I had more space then yes, I would do that. I will be disguising the straightness with lansdcaping and buildings.
@@ScottRails I see. But I didn't necessarily mean "wiggly" . You could also have the straights at a slight angle (just a few degrees) with the edge of the layout. It will look less rigid. And it will give another view on the trains as well, especially with the parallel tracks you planned for extra train storage...
The tool you used is called a Trammell. I did see people talking about your S curve. As long as there's a straight section in the middle as long as a train car you will be fine running through it. I like how you thought through your plan. I agree to add .5in for your curves. That will also help with your esments into your curves. Great work here!!!
As usual, I like your video. I am concerned with that S-curve you showed. I had one not nearly as severe as the one you showed, and I had all kinds of trouble with it, till I straightened it out a bit. Just lookin out for ya is all. It is your railroad after all, so you do what you want.
hahaha, yes I did. But I have too much going on in the desk area. I'll maybe make a fold up programming track just on the edge of the layout near the desk.
Hmmm I dunno about those returns loops being return at that radius and you being happy My understanding is that you are a circuiter someone that likes running trains around and around Which can be so reliable and relaxing to do I would only be installing a few passing loops where possible and run the points straight off the curves to almost like ladder tracks But your attitude is great that you are flexible but don’t let the finishing interfere or override with performance and of course your preference for long passenger trains 🤔💭🤔🤨🧐🙇⚡️👍
Yeah I get it perhaps you can purchase a bunch of shorter passenger cars mantua tyco Rivarossi for use on the inner loop I have a few and they look great on tight curves 👍😉
Should look a treat when your done. . Bet you can't wait to get a train running again. . . I'm making do with an oval on spare room floor till I get moved. Downside is lots of de fluffing with teasers🤐 . Grand vid as always 👍
Hey a helix with a 2ft wide by 8ft long upper switcher storage yard against the back wall could be a sweet addition to those great ideas .give you a little more room on the mainline eh! Just a thought! Anyhow full steam ahead .great video ,best of luck!!!
Dave, at 23:06 you show the area with the small radius curves. I believe they could easily be 22 inch radius if you move the lift bridge out closer to the edge of the layout and use that space to make the radius larger, which was the purpose of the new layout.
I didn't want the track too close to the edge, and would also mean very little room for scenery. I have two 30" curves all the way round now, the 18" loop is just a bonus.
First time viewer here. A minor suggestion, when setting out your sidings, try using curved turnouts/points. You will gain a few inches on every siding, it also might make the transitions easier. ATB
Just a thought... You can bevel the edges of the cork AFTER you have it glued down. In some ways, it's easier that way. And you have an actual tool for drawing your circles? Cool! I just use a scrap of whatever I have, and drill two holes - one for a screw (pivot point), the other for my pencil/Sharpie.
I had fully intended to drill some holes in my steel ruler, but James offered his giant compass thingy. I think you're on to a winner with the bevelling. Lets do that then.
could if you like add . a section from the curve near desk to far wall add 2 lines for assembling your consit as far as cork concerned maybe cosider a belt sander * Happy Rails *
I have a small electric sander that does the job, but it's quite heavy. It has been suggested that I sand the sides once the cork is laid. I will consider the other line idea.
After seeing the Facebook post and watching the video, I'm concerned about the 19" & 20" curves you're intent on; and what has me concerned is you may be setting yourself up for the same mishaps you've experienced with the 18". If you can, aim for 22". This way, you can run 6-axle diesels and Bulletnose Betty with ease. Also, I noticed at least one S-curve in the design; you should put at least one 9" straight in between. Otherwise, it's an ambitious plan.
The problem I had with the 18's was they were on an incline, and it was sectional track. This time it's flat and flexi track. I did eventually get the bigger locos to stay on the rails, but they just looked a bit crappy.
4 axle locos need at least 18" radius curves and 6 axle locos need at least 22" radius curves. Loco manufacturers and dealers(Walthers) should have that info.
Thanks Charlie. I got all my 6 axle locos to go round my last layout with only 18" curves. It didn't look great, but it worked. This time I will have 30" radius on the outer loops.
I recall you have a bunch of 18" radius curves. Since your inner tracks have a limiting 18" radius anyway, why not make all the curves 18" and use the track you have, saving the (very expensive) flex track for the rest of the layout.
Question: Can I cut channels in my extruded foam core baseboard under my Fastrack for bus and feeder wires instead of running them under the layout? The layout is 22 feet by roughly 9 feet and I have four track runs. Thanks so much. Love your videos. Have learned so much from you.
@@ScottRails Thank you for the reply. My base is made up of a bunch of 8' x 30" banquet tables covered with the foam core boards. A bit too challenging, for me, to drill through bc of the metal table supports.
If you have a hot wire cutter kit, you could easily make some channels in the foam. It's basically a very hot metal stick. Then just put some tape over it when the wire is installed. Don't over think it. Once you have grass and rocks over it, you won't see it.
I'd probably stay away from the 18 for a mainline track, nothing less then 22 actually would be (ok) the wider the better, you will thank yourself later..move whatever you have to /to make it work, but minimum for mainline should stay at least 22 or higher..yards and industrial track can be 18...
Hi Dave, think you have a good balance going there, we had 6 lines for the station, could never have enough! 😎😎😎😎😎have a good one lol un sub and re sub so i could be number 3000 lol
I just watched a man draw circles for 23 minutes and loved every minute of it. Cheers brother. Great video!
Dave, 2.5" center line to center line on curves for HO scale, that is the minimum.
You're over 3k now! Congrats!
I'm going to make a bold prediction on your future model railroad, Dave you are going to have a huge amount of fun doing the parts that you truly enjoy about the hobby. Take your time working on your new layout and remember measure twice and cut once!
When it comes to doing scenery do it in small batches and move to the next small spot as far away from the last spot as possible and repeat. When I did my current N-Scale layout I started doing scenery at one end of my layout and worked to the opposite end and as my skills got better as I progressed the less happy I was with what I had done initially so much so that I ended up redoing about 1/4 of my layout. If I had done it as a patch work I could blended the scenes together so that the contrast would have been less apparent.
That's some great advice right there. Thanks.
@@ScottRails Thank you and you are welcome.
Dave do you need to have loops you could have it go around over the lift bridge then you could have nice smooth curves and work it all from the centre or beef out the loop areas to ease them while your are still at this stage
All the best
Mate
Mark 😊😊
I have two nice loops going round the outside. The inner track is just a bonus track.
@@ScottRailsok nice one Dave 😊
Good stuff.
I seem to remember you talking about not rushing Dave? 🤔
Onwards and upwards. 👍
Happy modelling.
I'm actually behind schedule, lol.
My layout is HO in an insulated garden shed. I live in the southern US. Considering the vast amount of rolling stock you have I suggest this:
A twice around oval on two levels. Near a corner of the lower level fashion a crossing with an interchange. The continuous running will pass through this interchange bypassing the actual diamond. Beyond the diamond in both directions place two stub ended staging yards. This way you can run point to point while another train circles the continuous run. Both trains using the same two lap oval with passing sidings(I have three). You have so much equipment. This has worked very well for me. On mine there are 3 staging tracks at each end plus three passing sidings on the main. That gives 5 points where trains can meet. And it still gives space for scenery, etc.....
The staging yards are underneath the upper level of track and have removable sections of scenery for access. Train length is dictated by stage track length. Each yard has two 6 foot tracks and one 8 ft track. Not the biggest but quite flexible for me. Incidentally my shed is only 8x12 with two tracks on the liftout.
A lot to think about there. Thanks for taking the time.
On the 18" radius side, have the track that comes off the bridge jog off towards the wall enough to make the 18" radius curve bigger.
Your productivity is admirable.
Hey Dave,
Great video.
Tracks, tracks tracks ...
The possibilities make my head spin like a wheel.
I'm going through the very same process for my layout. Everyone's railroad is a personal expression, limited by the constrains of one's own space.
As a wise man once said concerning model railroad track plans: "You can argue with a ruler as much as you want, but the ruler will always win !"
You're doing a great job so keep it up...
However I'd like to mention in passing the possibilities oft he importance of choosing the "best" turnout (size). Turnout (frog) size correspond to curve radius. For concrete example using No 4 turnouts are equivalent to 18" curves. I use No 4's in yards and No 6's on mains that I want to have no speed restrictions on.
If one is going to run 24" - 30" curves with large locomotives and full length passenger cars then this might be the appropriate locations to to consider using No 6's on those main.]
Again, do your thing. I am totally enjoying accompanying you on your journey !
I actually bought number 8's for the main lines. Once I get a more solid plan I'll go buy the exact turnouts I need for the rest.
Nice progress with the new layout. I love your seat-of-the-pants style approach. Seems to work for you and you learn new things along the way.
Just a suggestion for when it comes time to lay the roadbed, try soaking the cork in a bucket, it should be become more pliable and less likely to fight you when being bent in a curve.
Nice sweeping curves Dave, a great amount of space for scenics too. I like your intial ideas. LOL, nae switching!
I love switching......as you know. Ties in the industries I put on the layout. I think you're layout is cool, it's what you like to see and do, which is exactly how it should be. Enough room for a narrow gauge line? oof!, what am I like! Good update, now get that cork done........:)
I may be incorporating a little switching action.
a trick my dad showed me was go off your largest and longest locomotive and freight car/passager car because those will tell you where your going to bind up certain 6 axle locomotives don't like 18 curves and also make sure you don't hit the wall with locomotives going around curse near walls
Plan looks alright, but I would do less of the tracks parallel to the edge(s) of the layout. Also do other angles than just the 90/180 degrees. It makes the layout look more 'natural' and will give more angles for building the scenery as well. Just a suggestion...
(I love the bridge construction, by the way)
I did that wiggly track thing on the last layout. It just gives me more track alignment issues. If I had more space then yes, I would do that. I will be disguising the straightness with lansdcaping and buildings.
@@ScottRails I see. But I didn't necessarily mean "wiggly" . You could also have the straights at a slight angle (just a few degrees) with the edge of the layout. It will look less rigid. And it will give another view on the trains as well, especially with the parallel tracks you planned for extra train storage...
The tool you used is called a Trammell. I did see people talking about your S curve. As long as there's a straight section in the middle as long as a train car you will be fine running through it. I like how you thought through your plan. I agree to add .5in for your curves. That will also help with your esments into your curves. Great work here!!!
yeah 2.5" to 3" apart with parallel curves.
As usual, I like your video. I am concerned with that S-curve you showed. I had one not nearly as severe as the one you showed, and I had all kinds of trouble with it, till I straightened it out a bit. Just lookin out for ya is all. It is your railroad after all, so you do what you want.
Ok, you're not the first to suggest this. I have now added 6 straight inches to that S section.
hey have you thought about putting a little run shelf along the wall to your pc to load trains and to use as a programming track for new dcc stuff
hahaha, yes I did. But I have too much going on in the desk area. I'll maybe make a fold up programming track just on the edge of the layout near the desk.
Hmmm I dunno about those returns loops being return at that radius and you being happy
My understanding is that you are a circuiter someone that likes running trains around and around
Which can be so reliable and relaxing to do
I would only be installing a few passing loops where possible and run the points straight off the curves to almost like ladder tracks
But your attitude is great that you are flexible but don’t let the finishing interfere or override with performance and of course your preference for long passenger trains 🤔💭🤔🤨🧐🙇⚡️👍
I mentioned a couple of times before, the boss has demanded the inner tight loop, so I need to just make the best of it hehehe.
Yeah I get it perhaps you can purchase a bunch of shorter passenger cars mantua tyco Rivarossi for use on the inner loop I have a few and they look great on tight curves 👍😉
Should look a treat when your done. . Bet you can't wait to get a train running again. . . I'm making do with an oval on spare room floor till I get moved. Downside is lots of de fluffing with teasers🤐 . Grand vid as always 👍
Tweezers even . . 😂😂
I'm trying to get it right this time. So far so good.
PUT A SANDER ON IT SIDE SECURE WITH CLAMPS THEN RUN AL THE CORK ALONG THE BELT TO EDGE THE CORK
I tried that this morning. The cork is too floppy, and requires quite a lot of force against the sander. Do not fear, I was given a better solution.
Dave that is why I am using 2 1/2 track centres , room for passenger trains
Thanks
Thanks you so much Peter. You are keeping the coffee flowing.
YES! 30” inch curves. You won’t be sorry
When I first heard 30" suggested, I thought that would be really wide, but now I'm seeing it as a minimum, lol.
Hey a helix with a 2ft wide by 8ft long upper switcher storage yard against the back wall could be a sweet addition to those great ideas .give you a little more room on the mainline eh! Just a thought! Anyhow full steam ahead .great video ,best of luck!!!
I will digest that idea, thanks Terry.
Dave, at 23:06 you show the area with the small radius curves. I believe they could easily be 22 inch radius if you move the lift bridge out closer to the edge of the layout and use that space to make the radius larger, which was the purpose of the new layout.
I didn't want the track too close to the edge, and would also mean very little room for scenery. I have two 30" curves all the way round now, the 18" loop is just a bonus.
Another great, very helpful video, thanks!!
Great video of your trials and tribulations of the radius of curves and making them fit. Well done!
Dystopian diorama.
You really need a short straight between the “S” curves. Fudge the big curve back a little to obtain the short straight, all you need is 4”
That's what she said.
First time viewer here. A minor suggestion, when setting out your sidings, try using curved turnouts/points. You will gain a few inches on every siding, it also might make the transitions easier. ATB
I like the idea of curved turnouts, but it seems a bit advanced for me at the moment. Thanks for dropping by, I appreciate the support.
Good job ! It never comes out how you planned it, but it may come out better. Better have room for those big diesels.
Just a thought... You can bevel the edges of the cork AFTER you have it glued down. In some ways, it's easier that way. And you have an actual tool for drawing your circles? Cool! I just use a scrap of whatever I have, and drill two holes - one for a screw (pivot point), the other for my pencil/Sharpie.
I had fully intended to drill some holes in my steel ruler, but James offered his giant compass thingy. I think you're on to a winner with the bevelling. Lets do that then.
I used my DIY 60 watts CO2 Laser for cutting the cork. Even the switches with the hole for the servo was cutted..
looks great! i just hope your switch tracks can maintain those curves for the inner loop.
could if you like add . a section from the curve near desk to far wall add 2 lines for assembling your consit as far as cork concerned maybe cosider a belt sander * Happy Rails *
I have a small electric sander that does the job, but it's quite heavy. It has been suggested that I sand the sides once the cork is laid.
I will consider the other line idea.
I like your trial and error way of planing the layout. 👍🏻
I know there are software programs out there to do this, but I'm more of a visual kinda guy.
@@ScottRails software? It takes the creative out of planning a layout, I prefer using my brain.
@@OldcampRanch Exactly.
Looking good.
looking like a good plan dave
Using What you Have And How to use it to Build A Layout is What It is.
One thing with the 2 cork boards joined some of your long coaches( esp passenger coaches MAY touch on curves
Hmmm, I thought I covered that in the video, no? lol
After seeing the Facebook post and watching the video, I'm concerned about the 19" & 20" curves you're intent on; and what has me concerned is you may be setting yourself up for the same mishaps you've experienced with the 18". If you can, aim for 22". This way, you can run 6-axle diesels and Bulletnose Betty with ease. Also, I noticed at least one S-curve in the design; you should put at least one 9" straight in between. Otherwise, it's an ambitious plan.
The problem I had with the 18's was they were on an incline, and it was sectional track. This time it's flat and flexi track.
I did eventually get the bigger locos to stay on the rails, but they just looked a bit crappy.
Making good progress. Thanks for sharing.
Extend The Left Lane Drop Back The Right Line To Prevent An Accident.
4 axle locos need at least 18" radius curves and 6 axle locos need at least 22" radius curves. Loco manufacturers and dealers(Walthers) should have that info.
Thanks Charlie. I got all my 6 axle locos to go round my last layout with only 18" curves. It didn't look great, but it worked. This time I will have 30" radius on the outer loops.
You're forgetting the transition curves.
No I'm not, lol.
As you run a lot of long passenger cars did you consider implementing easements into your turns?
Yes, I'll do that when I lay the cork. Also adding some super elevations.
I recall you have a bunch of 18" radius curves. Since your inner tracks have a limiting 18" radius anyway, why not make all the curves 18" and use the track you have, saving the (very expensive) flex track for the rest of the layout.
They are all code 100 with black sleepers. I'm investing decent money on the track this time as it's the most important part of the layout I think.
👍
Question: Can I cut channels in my extruded foam core baseboard under my Fastrack for bus and feeder wires instead of running them under the layout? The layout is 22 feet by roughly 9 feet and I have four track runs. Thanks so much. Love your videos. Have learned so much from you.
That sounds like a decent plan. I just drilled all the way down because my bus line is already there.
@@ScottRails Thank you for the reply. My base is made up of a bunch of 8' x 30" banquet tables covered with the foam core boards. A bit too challenging, for me, to drill through bc of the metal table supports.
If you have a hot wire cutter kit, you could easily make some channels in the foam. It's basically a very hot metal stick. Then just put some tape over it when the wire is installed. Don't over think it. Once you have grass and rocks over it, you won't see it.
@@ScottRails I have one! Excited to give it a try. Thanks so much.
I'd probably stay away from the 18 for a mainline track, nothing less then 22 actually would be (ok) the wider the better, you will thank yourself later..move whatever you have to /to make it work, but minimum for mainline should stay at least 22 or higher..yards and industrial track can be 18...
Yes. Mainlines will be 28 and 30. Inner dogbone will have one 18 and one 19, nothing less.
Who Says You need A Computer to Build A Layout.watching this video says It All.
That S curve might cause you some issues
I've changed it.
Ok can you come over and do a mountain for me , you like scenery correction 3100 subscribers
Hi Dave, think you have a good balance going there, we had 6 lines for the station, could never have enough! 😎😎😎😎😎have a good one lol un sub and re sub so i could be number 3000 lol
hahaha, thanks.