This inspection procedure is a half baked attempt at minimizing the replacement costs and placing since liability on the bike skip. If one of the units that is deemed okay and subsequently fails. The bike shop will then have liability. I would take the safe option and let Shimano make the decision
The liability has been taken care of with a liability release, but yes. We are not going to pass anything. It’s either going to be a fail or unsure, send for inspection at Shimano.
Hmmm, what they should be doing is replacing every unit sold to damp climate global regions, all of them - as they were never fit for purpose for those climates from the outset. Checking that they haven't cracked this week is no guarantee that they wont just fail next week.
Yeah, it's not like the purchase price of these units was ever cheap in the new inflated market - with a DA crankset retailing for the cost of an entry level complete bike! Often we forget this as its disguised within a complete build price. At that pricepoint from a mass market manufacturer there should be an expectation of near perfection, it was clear more than 5 years ago that this generation of production were far off that mark. Glad I was aware of it and skipped that generation, as am reluctant to buy into system with known issues. Something like DA 7800 or Record 10 were like heaven compared to a lot of this modern toss.
I had a crank fail 3 years ago, shimano were not interested, binned and replaced with no issues, this will be the case in lots of these failures, most of the evidence ended up in the bin, makes you think that shimano delayed any recall to minimise the liability...
You can say passed or failed. Madison/Shimano specifically say they will indemnify you if there is a later failure. You're not being asked to clarify that the crankset is a good design, might fail later, or could have hidden corrosion, you're asked to give it a pass or fail on the specific visual inspection
I see what you're saying but since this is on Shimano there should be no hint that the inspector (bicycle technician) has an authoritative say on an engineering matter. It should simply be "obvious fail" or the photos let Shimano decide. I appreciate the diligence this shop goes through in checking with their insurer and all, but the shouldn't have to as they are just the collection point for Shimano's issue at this point. As Paul said, they'll likely be sending the majority back to avoid this "later" problem.
I'm so glad I listened to Peak Torque, Hambini, et al! I'd want these cranksets off my bike immediately! Probably Shimano won't be able to produce enough replacements for the faulty units alone. Ultra Torque?
Shimano should replace ALL the affected cranksets on the recall list, rather than rely on a visual inspection. The corrosion could just as easily be under the surface leading to a false “Pass”, and the potential for a tragic accident/death. I’d be pretty upset if I was the bike mechanic that had inspected and passed that crankset. Thankfully, I’ve already replaced my Shimano Ultegra cranksets with Rotor ones a couple of weeks ago. I would have had no confidence in them.
Further to your point, the problem of the design still remains. Even if corrosion hasn't started, the propensity for the design to render problems still exists. I wonder if an injected foam of some sort to fill the void might be a good idea? Add weight? Precious little with the right foam, and worth every gram in insuring longevity.
So many cranks have broken. Death is a bit extreme. Falling into a cars path could happen. But most likely if they break you will just smash your nuts on the stem. If you are really worried about death. Just get new cranks and don't rely on the brand. I have these. I really don't care if shimano replaces them. They are 5 years old. I'm more worried about blowing a tire or rim failure.
I don’t have affected cranks but I do have all Shimano components. Also have 4 or 5 fishing reels. But if I did have the affected cranks I would want them replaced now. No one wants a product that is known to fail even if their own hasn’t failed yet. Maybe you need to have the local crit pro do a few sprints on the cranks to get the warranty rolling.
I have had a few customers over the years with failed Ultegra cranks, Madison/Shimano at the time were not interested as it was over their rigid 2 year warranty. I thought it was a massive design flaw when it failed, should have kept it for nostalgic purposes For those older mechanics out there,, you may remember back in the mid to late 90's Shimano issued a recall on Alivio chainsets, they were the skinny dog bone looking ones. These cracked too
Hopefully if everyone else also refuses to pass cranks and sends everything back to Shimano/Madison, eventually they might get the message and issue a proper recall and replacement program, rather than this poor excuse. Liability release aside, this inspection isn't something I would feel personally (morally) comfortable passing as a professional mechanic.
Indeed. I mentioned it in another reply, but whatever your skill level as a mechanic, most of us are not engineers. Which is who, along with their specialized equipment, should be looking at this. Or in this day and age of margins and profitability, it could mean Shimano skips inspection, bins/recycles them all and sends replacements. At least the post-covid stock supplies have a reason to exist now, haha.
I don't live in a damp location, but I keep my bike in a basement that is damp in summer. I bought the whole Ultegra groupset in 2018, and there was always a creaking coming from somwhere when putting the power down, on a steep hill, etc. Now i know its been the cranks all along. Definitly going for the inspection, and hoping that they will be replaced because of creaking alone. Cheers
Many things can creak. My aero spokes turned out to be the culprit when I at first thought it was the cranks… I’ll still have to keep an eye on my Ultegra cranks now though…..
I have 3 of these cranks. 2 of the shops local to me are refusing to inspect unless I bought the bike/crank from them. The other local retailers that actually sold me the cranks, namely Merlin and Ribble dont want to know either, I doubt maddison will intervene as both Ribble and Merln sold/sell grey imports (non retail sets,) that were meant for their own bike builds and tehrefore not distributed through Maddison. The final crank is one on a bike bought online from a company in Surrey, 250 miles away. They just need to exchange them all its ridiculous and I would want 500 mile inspections if not.
@@Mapdec With respect, that's not an entirely fair statement, and obtusely self serving in your case. Any shop refusing to help people who don't buy that shop's product are bush league and digging their own grave anyway. And online retailers are not supposed to be immune to this, and there should be a remedy for grey zone business practices (as when Chain Reaction finally got slapped by Shimano). I've worked in shops that both ran their own online store as well...people's loyalty to product is only held so far and the vast majority will go where they can find it at the price they want it. What people are drawn to is mechanical excellence, reliable business practice and customer service. Which is what you seem to provide and can't buy on the internet. I would happily visit your shop if I was in the UK, and pay for service and things. But I'm not, and some stuff I still can't find local or online so I will get it however I can get it.
@@iammarkstewart sure. At the same time you can’t complain when your internet retailer doesn’t help, and your local bike shop either doesn’t exist or has not got skilled mechanics anymore. The internet only really provides commodified goods for use and disposal.
@@Mapdec You have a point to make with this but I maintain that if the online retailer isn't helping, that's bad business by them, the same as it would be at an LBS. They either take the bike back or communicate/liaise with a shop like you to get their customer sorted. Warranty is different than regular purchase as well; a Canyon still needs regular service and if you no longer have skilled mechanics that's because something happened at your shop and you either no longer cater to the client well enough or you have some other internal problem with staffing. Our shop never had to deal with an online retailer directly, but we fixed plenty of direct to consumer bikes and the customer reported having been reimbursed for said costs of repair (we didn't always know if it was warranty or customer service). As you say, the internet can be for the commodity, but if that commodity is a bike that needs help or a part that needs to be installed, the internet isn't necessarily your enemy. Sure, it can eat into your parts sales, but you can't service a bike online...that's where you shine.
What kind of turnaround are you expecting in the UK? I processed a broken one yesterday in the US, and they said that cranks would start shipping on the 10th. This was the second one this week, and both times the customers opted to buy new cranks and sell the replacement ones once they arrive. It's pretty lame that Shimano announced a recall while they weren't even ready to replace the product that they were recalling.
The customers get new chainrings with the new cranks? I’m assuming the du as the new black chainrings would look weird with the silver DA9000 rings for example. But if the customer can keep the old chainrings then they could at least sell them online and make a few bucks.
should be about 10 days from now, and that will get faster. It's pretty normal in recall situations. The first priority is always to get anything dangerous out of use. The Pirelli one was the same.
Doesn't hurt the shop's bottom line if you're getting a new part sale out of this by customer choice. Not the most efficient, but it happened at my old shop a lot during covid since there were 10-14 month waits for warranty parts. People would buy anything that would fit to get riding.
@@iammarkstewart fair enough. I was thinking more that the customers could sell their chainrings and hand the cranks over to Shimano, assuming Shimano didn’t care about receiving the used chainrings in exchange for new ones with the new crank. Just though the customers would be less disappointed and it could win Shimano some PR brownie points after frustrating so many people with this debacle.
You have a box full of shimano cranks. You throw it in the air. If it lands on the table, it goes back to the customer, if it falls down it will be replaced.
As a shop owner you will be assuming liability. I would never take the liability away from Shimano by declaring their product safe. I would send EVERY set into Shimano so they retain the liability for declaring the defective product safe for use. In the US if they are inspected, not replaced, then fail and cause harm, *Everyone gets sued,* not just the deep pockets (manufacturer), shop that inspected, manufacturer, distributer, Everyone... Very litigious in the US, but Shimono knew people were being injured by their product and that makes it all worth it. I have four cranksets that are not safe and effective.
Nice video, thanks for this. Open questions to me are: -How long will the inspection take, I guess there will be no intermediate replacement crank given to the customer. - How many cranks end up finally in the bin and need to be replaced, can Shimano deliver in time? To stop cycling for the duration of a lengthly inspection seems no nice perspective.
Fascinating. Assuming your crank is anything other than a pass, what happens after the shop has gone through this process? Can the cranks be ridden? What are the timeframes?
@@Mapdec what if its an 'unsure' as in looks ok to the bike mech. If you send back a crank - does shimano do any testing on their end when they get it and say actually this one was fine and send it back (and maybe charge the dealer?) I remember back in the day working with apple - we got stung a few times sending back a part for warranty - apple claimed we had sent back non faulty parts and then docked out warranty labour tier and charged us (an exchange price) for the part - which of course we couldnt recover from the customer
A visual check is surely inadequate. If your car was undergoing an MOT test, a simple visual check of chassis mountings, suspension joints etc would never be acceptable in establishing roadworthiness. Only a dynamic stress test using a power meter would simulate the demands of normal riding. That, plus the use of some sort of scanning device would be required before declaring a crankset 'fit for purpose'. Can't see Shimano paying for that.
It's good practice that Shimano are doing this, not only to satiate deserving customers, but to also protect the brand. If they hadn't done this, it could have killed them.
It has harmed them, they are now looking to reduce that harm but I think it will cost them more in the long run by not ending all risk to them by replacing the defective cranksets.
Shimano kept this problem hidden for many years, where if outsiders made hollowtech it would of exposed the manufacturing faults with this system 10+ years ago. Waiting until the Shimano SPD SL pedal scandal hits you know where they use a plastic sleeve which if your foot is not straight enough on that pedal side the white plastic sleeve will get torsion wear thus the pedal will get play on the screw mount side even though the pedal's outer section is in good working and perfectly setup condition on the bearing sections. Open up any SPD SL pedal and you will see how ridiculous it was to use a plastic sleeve inside to carry a metal shaft, this is why SPD SL pedals develop play due to the plastic sleeve being plastic and they don't sell these sleeves, your pedal is a paper weight.
I take my hat off to young Jake, the next few months are going to be slightly monotonous. Totally agree with him though, ultimately it's not his decision to pass or fail someone else's product. Imagine the backlash if he said one was okay only to have it fail shortly after.
They are being paid to asses the cranks though, and they will obviously have a much better view of the cranks at inspection than anyone at Shimano can tell from a few photos later. I think the correct thing to do would be to inspect the cranks and comment “No visible defects noted at time of inspection, based on inspection criteria provided by Shimano”, or similar. What’s the point of carrying out the inspection if you’re not going to document the result?
The first letter is the year; the second letter is the month. RI & RJ would be a manufacture date of September (I) & October (J) of 2019 (R) respectively. In theory this would be just beyond the recall window, but I would suggest having them inspected anyway, just to be sure. I am assuming Shimano made some design or manufacturing change starting in July of 2019 (RG). Pretty sad that Shimano waited so many years to issue a recall. They must have known there was an issue more than 5 years ago.
So is just a creak enough to get an exchange, mine has developed a creak in the last few months, only does It drive side. I'll be taking it into Evans in town which is a new branch, but not 100% convinced they're upto it, the sales staff are certainly not into bikes.
I have already had a 9000 crank left arm fail on me. It broke in half and I almost crashed. Now I have a 6800 which I removed in July 2023 because it appeared to me to be separating. I took it to my Shimano dealer and they said it passed inspection. I think it is very clearly starting to separate. I am not going to risk an injury to prove I am right. Very unhappy with how they are handling this problem. I would think they would error on the side of safety and try to show some Goodwill to their customers. At this point that is lost. I will never buy another Shimano product. Do they think that we don't have other options?
Curious about 7000 cranks. Shimano says they are Hollowtech, but I cannot find info on how their construction differs from the 8000/9000 recalled cranks. I know it is different somehow.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. Just too bad that the check can only be made visually and with the naked eye. Just wondering: in cases where the service center’s visual inspection does not give a certain and obvious “fail”, but the crank is sent back because the technician doesn’t trust that they are good: will Shimano doublecheck cranks that are sent back? Then as a customer I would definitely require a report from Shimano on the tests performed and why the cranks is not replaced. Will that be provided? Or does Shimano follow the technicians’ verdict and replace them?
When the cranks fail after your inspection and Shimano states "you did not inspect them correctly" and will not indemnify you, you're left holding the bag. at least part of it. It's not personal just business, you will likely have to settle out of court. You should have insurance for the legal costs and and harm caused by the failed inspection, or you can sue shimano to recover your costs, and you may, or maynot win. Good Luck!
Well. Actually…. Shimano already gave all their dealers legal documents to say they have that covered, but besides that, almost every bike shop now just sends everything back regardless. We have done this since the start because the way I see it, if they were my cranks I would take them back every week for an inspection.
Sorry I would like to know how does it works in UK in case the inspection is OK. Any certificate is issued? Because in case I would sold the bike the new owner could request it (I would do). Here in Italy Shimano give nothing. Sorry for my English.
What if i have a Ultegra FC-R8000 crankset with a code that is not on the recall list? Can you see any difference in build quality / material between cranksets that are on the list and those which are not?
Thanks for the informative video but I'm confused, the shop where I bought my bike told me they weren't being paid for the inspection so If they turned out to be ok then I'd be charged for it.
Are any of these failing catastrophically without warning? When mine failed they creaked quite obviously and I was able to identify a crack before they completely failed.
@@Mapdec yeah, I was just wondering if people aren't paying attention to the warning signs or if some are just failing instantly, really hope it's not the latter 🫣
So we are going to have to leave the bike at the dealership or do you think this will be a whilst you wait inspection. Bit of a pain in the arris if your nearest authorized dealer is xx miles away.
Ive got Ultegra R8000 cranks & my code is SL, so im guessing mine was manufactured after July 2019? Does that mean mine are 100% safe from these issues?
great work - how much do you get in the UK for this tedious job? I heard that in the US it is 75 USD, which, to me, considering the work, is not really something the workshops are crying for?
Atleast you get compensation. Here in little old New Zealand we only get compensated if the crankset is a fail and has to be replaced! Warranty here is a joke. The only brand that does it right is Specialized
Everyone I know that has an Ultegra or Dura Ace component high level bike has at least one other older or backup bike. If you are serious about biking you normally have more than one bike.
Do I have to go to the dealer where I bought the bike or anywhere I want? Can I also bring the whole bike or do I need to disassemble the crank from the bike? Thanks
It seems the photo document serves as a liability release, we are not going to be making the pass fail call though. It’s either a clear fail or ask for Shimano confirmation.
Oh yeah. Everytime you hear a little creak or see something that might be a crack. Get it inspected every week. I do wonder how many times we have to inspect before Shimano just say, here. Have a new one.
Shimano should allow people to attest in writing that they’ve had a failure and thrown the crankset out. One replacement per customer, Ultegra level. Maybe require some sort of corroboration, like a bike store attesting that they deemed the warranty not to apply, or photos, or something. Is this going to invite fraud? Sure, and they brought this on themselves. They’re clearly trying to do the minimum.
So, I can have my cranks ( I don´t ride Shimano, but just to simplify.. ) inspected next week, found to be OK, come back with the same crankset in... 4 years, have them inspected and possibly scrapped and being given a brand spanking new crankset?? Rgr
@@Mapdec So it´s NOT a Callback ( as your mechman calls it ), it´s not an Extended Warranty ( as I´ve seen it elsewhere ) but a Lifetime Warranty?? Rgr
A visual inspection is useless for all but the most obvious cases. You need to thread a rod through the pedal hole and stress the heck out of the crank this way and that to see the less obvious cracks.
No way I'm having anything to do with these .After giving it the OK and it separates you think You're not liable ? And 36 quid isn't near enough for the time imo especially if it involves a trip to post 1
I run a Campagnolo Super Record 12 carbon Ultra Torque crank (titanium axle) with Ultegra Di2 12-speed. The spacing dimensions are identical and it works perfectly. Stronger, lighter, better looking.
@@sbccbc7471 I need a whole group (cranks, rim brakes, BB, Shifters, Cassette, derailleurs front and back, etc). Does Shimano/SRAM offer a mechanical version?
@@Pertemba40 Both companies do offer mechanical versions of their top-end groupsets, but it's now something you could only get second-hand as they have been discontinued. The last mechanical Dura-Ace is the Dura-Ace R9100.
Dear Mapdec Cycle Works, please increase the gain of your voice recordings for your videos. I can barely hear your voice on some of your videos. I got to turn my volume all the way up and then every other sound, like a windows notification for example is frighteningly loud.
Shameful practices by them. If not for the threat of American courts they wouldn't be doing this. This is all a cost saving measure for them to compete with proper carbon cranks. The four arm spider is also a cost savings that made cranks unattractive and eaiser to cast two halves to glue together. This is the reason that brand will never get another cent from my wallet. Glad the shops are being paid something I am sure you could sell tune ups and chains at the same time to make it worth doing. If I owned a shop the 43 bucks to inspect would be cutting it close to losing money. The hourly shop rates here are 100 bucks. To take in the bike, inspect, reassemble, file and load for customer in about 20 to 25 minutes would be have to be fast. That is not counting cleaners gloves or any other stuff.
Cant get a thing out of Shimano re Irish customers ! No appointed inspectors yet. Shimano, lets keep this simple, initiative a full product recall, just like in the US. Those with power meters get a credit not or refund. Why are European purchasers being treated differently ?
@@danielryan5702 that's utter bollox, not fair on the customer, along with liability issues should the crank fail in the future, having been given the all clear now !
For me, your volume/sound level is a bit low. The sound effect from screen transitions is loud though. Something you’ve done recently has caused a change. It had been fine.
i do not car eabout this because of we are at mass production stange of new Absolute Titanium chain rings and ni need ni more to use this Shimano crap ;)
Totally ridiculous and Shimano are being so scummy. I switched to all new SRAM Force and T-Type on my bikes and couldn't be happier. Better build quality, better features, actually great powermeters, better app integration....Shimano is super janky.
This inspection procedure is a half baked attempt at minimizing the replacement costs and placing since liability on the bike skip.
If one of the units that is deemed okay and subsequently fails. The bike shop will then have liability. I would take the safe option and let Shimano make the decision
The liability has been taken care of with a liability release, but yes. We are not going to pass anything. It’s either going to be a fail or unsure, send for inspection at Shimano.
Hmmm, what they should be doing is replacing every unit sold to damp climate global regions, all of them - as they were never fit for purpose for those climates from the outset. Checking that they haven't cracked this week is no guarantee that they wont just fail next week.
Yep. That’s why I think we will be sending back most things. If it were me I would take them back for inspection every week until I got new ones.
Living at the salty and humid Gulf Coast of Florida, I like your thinking.
Yeah, it's not like the purchase price of these units was ever cheap in the new inflated market - with a DA crankset retailing for the cost of an entry level complete bike! Often we forget this as its disguised within a complete build price. At that pricepoint from a mass market manufacturer there should be an expectation of near perfection, it was clear more than 5 years ago that this generation of production were far off that mark. Glad I was aware of it and skipped that generation, as am reluctant to buy into system with known issues. Something like DA 7800 or Record 10 were like heaven compared to a lot of this modern toss.
Exactly right!
Good grief, no kidding.
I really hope all bike shops have staff as thorough and knowledgeable as yours. My local can't even get headset pre-load correct.
Sorry to hear that
learn how to do it correctly yourself, and show them
I had a crank fail 3 years ago, shimano were not interested, binned and replaced with no issues, this will be the case in lots of these failures, most of the evidence ended up in the bin, makes you think that shimano delayed any recall to minimise the liability...
You can say passed or failed. Madison/Shimano specifically say they will indemnify you if there is a later failure. You're not being asked to clarify that the crankset is a good design, might fail later, or could have hidden corrosion, you're asked to give it a pass or fail on the specific visual inspection
I see what you're saying but since this is on Shimano there should be no hint that the inspector (bicycle technician) has an authoritative say on an engineering matter. It should simply be "obvious fail" or the photos let Shimano decide. I appreciate the diligence this shop goes through in checking with their insurer and all, but the shouldn't have to as they are just the collection point for Shimano's issue at this point. As Paul said, they'll likely be sending the majority back to avoid this "later" problem.
Bloody good channel... cheers for keeping the high standards
Thank you
I'm so glad I listened to Peak Torque, Hambini, et al! I'd want these cranksets off my bike immediately! Probably Shimano won't be able to produce enough replacements for the faulty units alone. Ultra Torque?
I run a Campy Ultra Torque 12 speed crank with Ultegra 12 Di2. Better looking, stronger, lighter.
Shimano should replace ALL the affected cranksets on the recall list, rather than rely on a visual inspection.
The corrosion could just as easily be under the surface leading to a false “Pass”, and the potential for a tragic accident/death.
I’d be pretty upset if I was the bike mechanic that had inspected and passed that crankset.
Thankfully, I’ve already replaced my Shimano Ultegra cranksets with Rotor ones a couple of weeks ago.
I would have had no confidence in them.
I agree. Seems they are leaving themselves open to liability.
Further to your point, the problem of the design still remains. Even if corrosion hasn't started, the propensity for the design to render problems still exists. I wonder if an injected foam of some sort to fill the void might be a good idea? Add weight? Precious little with the right foam, and worth every gram in insuring longevity.
So many cranks have broken. Death is a bit extreme. Falling into a cars path could happen. But most likely if they break you will just smash your nuts on the stem. If you are really worried about death. Just get new cranks and don't rely on the brand. I have these. I really don't care if shimano replaces them. They are 5 years old. I'm more worried about blowing a tire or rim failure.
My ultegra bike was specced with Rotor - I already knew this was coming so glad I didn’t get caught up
They should run Non destructive testing on these cranks,case close
Thanks for keeping us updated through this whole thing 🙌🏾
I don’t have affected cranks but I do have all Shimano components. Also have 4 or 5 fishing reels. But if I did have the affected cranks I would want them replaced now. No one wants a product that is known to fail even if their own hasn’t failed yet. Maybe you need to have the local crit pro do a few sprints on the cranks to get the warranty rolling.
Good to know more about the process, my bike is going into my LBS later this week for the inspection.
Did it pass?
@@mattsidebottom7603 Yes it did 👍
I have had a few customers over the years with failed Ultegra cranks, Madison/Shimano at the time were not interested as it was over their rigid 2 year warranty.
I thought it was a massive design flaw when it failed, should have kept it for nostalgic purposes
For those older mechanics out there,, you may remember back in the mid to late 90's Shimano issued a recall on Alivio chainsets, they were the skinny dog bone looking ones. These cracked too
Hopefully if everyone else also refuses to pass cranks and sends everything back to Shimano/Madison, eventually they might get the message and issue a proper recall and replacement program, rather than this poor excuse. Liability release aside, this inspection isn't something I would feel personally (morally) comfortable passing as a professional mechanic.
Totally.
Indeed. I mentioned it in another reply, but whatever your skill level as a mechanic, most of us are not engineers. Which is who, along with their specialized equipment, should be looking at this. Or in this day and age of margins and profitability, it could mean Shimano skips inspection, bins/recycles them all and sends replacements. At least the post-covid stock supplies have a reason to exist now, haha.
I'd wish you guys were my local bike shop, you are the best.
Trying. Thank you
I don't live in a damp location, but I keep my bike in a basement that is damp in summer. I bought the whole Ultegra groupset in 2018, and there was always a creaking coming from somwhere when putting the power down, on a steep hill, etc. Now i know its been the cranks all along. Definitly going for the inspection, and hoping that they will be replaced because of creaking alone. Cheers
Could also be the bottom bracket. Is it a press fit BB? They have a tendency to creak if not fitted perfectly.
@lucasm4919 No, I do not think it is. The frame is titanium with a threaded BB. My local bike shop told me to bring it in, so I'll soon find out.
@@garysladek9110 Threaded BB's can creak as well, especially if the Ti frame tubing at bottom bracket area isn't oversized, double-butted etc.
Many things can creak. My aero spokes turned out to be the culprit when I at first thought it was the cranks… I’ll still have to keep an eye on my Ultegra cranks now though…..
We're they replaced in the end? @@garysladek9110
I have 3 of these cranks. 2 of the shops local to me are refusing to inspect unless I bought the bike/crank from them.
The other local retailers that actually sold me the cranks, namely Merlin and Ribble dont want to know either,
I doubt maddison will intervene as both Ribble and Merln sold/sell grey imports (non retail sets,) that were meant for their own bike builds and tehrefore not distributed through Maddison.
The final crank is one on a bike bought online from a company in Surrey, 250 miles away.
They just need to exchange them all its ridiculous and I would want 500 mile inspections if not.
Stop buying off the internet folks.
Just take them to a Shimano Dealer for inspection.
@@Mapdec With respect, that's not an entirely fair statement, and obtusely self serving in your case. Any shop refusing to help people who don't buy that shop's product are bush league and digging their own grave anyway. And online retailers are not supposed to be immune to this, and there should be a remedy for grey zone business practices (as when Chain Reaction finally got slapped by Shimano). I've worked in shops that both ran their own online store as well...people's loyalty to product is only held so far and the vast majority will go where they can find it at the price they want it. What people are drawn to is mechanical excellence, reliable business practice and customer service. Which is what you seem to provide and can't buy on the internet. I would happily visit your shop if I was in the UK, and pay for service and things. But I'm not, and some stuff I still can't find local or online so I will get it however I can get it.
@@iammarkstewart sure. At the same time you can’t complain when your internet retailer doesn’t help, and your local bike shop either doesn’t exist or has not got skilled mechanics anymore. The internet only really provides commodified goods for use and disposal.
@@Mapdec You have a point to make with this but I maintain that if the online retailer isn't helping, that's bad business by them, the same as it would be at an LBS. They either take the bike back or communicate/liaise with a shop like you to get their customer sorted. Warranty is different than regular purchase as well; a Canyon still needs regular service and if you no longer have skilled mechanics that's because something happened at your shop and you either no longer cater to the client well enough or you have some other internal problem with staffing. Our shop never had to deal with an online retailer directly, but we fixed plenty of direct to consumer bikes and the customer reported having been reimbursed for said costs of repair (we didn't always know if it was warranty or customer service). As you say, the internet can be for the commodity, but if that commodity is a bike that needs help or a part that needs to be installed, the internet isn't necessarily your enemy. Sure, it can eat into your parts sales, but you can't service a bike online...that's where you shine.
What kind of turnaround are you expecting in the UK? I processed a broken one yesterday in the US, and they said that cranks would start shipping on the 10th. This was the second one this week, and both times the customers opted to buy new cranks and sell the replacement ones once they arrive. It's pretty lame that Shimano announced a recall while they weren't even ready to replace the product that they were recalling.
@charlesmansplainingsame
The customers get new chainrings with the new cranks? I’m assuming the du as the new black chainrings would look weird with the silver DA9000 rings for example. But if the customer can keep the old chainrings then they could at least sell them online and make a few bucks.
should be about 10 days from now, and that will get faster. It's pretty normal in recall situations. The first priority is always to get anything dangerous out of use. The Pirelli one was the same.
Doesn't hurt the shop's bottom line if you're getting a new part sale out of this by customer choice. Not the most efficient, but it happened at my old shop a lot during covid since there were 10-14 month waits for warranty parts. People would buy anything that would fit to get riding.
@@iammarkstewart fair enough. I was thinking more that the customers could sell their chainrings and hand the cranks over to Shimano, assuming Shimano didn’t care about receiving the used chainrings in exchange for new ones with the new crank. Just though the customers would be less disappointed and it could win Shimano some PR brownie points after frustrating so many people with this debacle.
Thanks for this, well explained. I think it's really helpful for everyone to understand the process.... Next stop: R8000 examination.
You have a box full of shimano cranks. You throw it in the air. If it lands on the table, it goes back to the customer, if it falls down it will be replaced.
I just talked to an SSC here in SG and they will do a visual inspection. That's all. Nothing close to taking it apart.
Thank you, that was great to know what I have to do and why.
As a shop owner you will be assuming liability. I would never take the liability away from Shimano by declaring their product safe. I would send EVERY set into Shimano so they retain the liability for declaring the defective product safe for use. In the US if they are inspected, not replaced, then fail and cause harm, *Everyone gets sued,* not just the deep pockets (manufacturer), shop that inspected, manufacturer, distributer, Everyone... Very litigious in the US, but Shimono knew people were being injured by their product and that makes it all worth it. I have four cranksets that are not safe and effective.
Yeah…. Like I put before, people have thought about that a long time ago.
really glad shimano at least owed up to being the source of the creaking.... I was blaming everything else.
Nice video, thanks for this.
Open questions to me are:
-How long will the inspection take, I guess there will be no intermediate replacement crank given to the customer.
- How many cranks end up finally in the bin and need to be replaced, can Shimano deliver in time?
To stop cycling for the duration of a lengthly inspection seems no nice perspective.
I think it will speed up after the initial panic settles down.
Fascinating. Assuming your crank is anything other than a pass, what happens after the shop has gone through this process? Can the cranks be ridden? What are the timeframes?
If they fail, you get replacements.
@@Mapdec what if its an 'unsure' as in looks ok to the bike mech. If you send back a crank - does shimano do any testing on their end when they get it and say actually this one was fine and send it back (and maybe charge the dealer?)
I remember back in the day working with apple - we got stung a few times sending back a part for warranty - apple claimed we had sent back non faulty parts and then docked out warranty labour tier and charged us (an exchange price) for the part - which of course we couldnt recover from the customer
A visual check is surely inadequate. If your car was undergoing an MOT test, a simple visual check of chassis mountings, suspension joints etc would never be acceptable in establishing roadworthiness.
Only a dynamic stress test using a power meter would simulate the demands of normal riding. That, plus the use of some sort of scanning device would be required before declaring a crankset 'fit for purpose'. Can't see Shimano paying for that.
It's good practice that Shimano are doing this, not only to satiate deserving customers, but to also protect the brand. If they hadn't done this, it could have killed them.
It has harmed them, they are now looking to reduce that harm but I think it will cost them more in the long run by not ending all risk to them by replacing the defective cranksets.
Shimano kept this problem hidden for many years, where if outsiders made hollowtech it would of exposed the manufacturing faults with this system 10+ years ago. Waiting until the Shimano SPD SL pedal scandal hits you know where they use a plastic sleeve which if your foot is not straight enough on that pedal side the white plastic sleeve will get torsion wear thus the pedal will get play on the screw mount side even though the pedal's outer section is in good working and perfectly setup condition on the bearing sections. Open up any SPD SL pedal and you will see how ridiculous it was to use a plastic sleeve inside to carry a metal shaft, this is why SPD SL pedals develop play due to the plastic sleeve being plastic and they don't sell these sleeves, your pedal is a paper weight.
I take my hat off to young Jake, the next few months are going to be slightly monotonous. Totally agree with him though, ultimately it's not his decision to pass or fail someone else's product. Imagine the backlash if he said one was okay only to have it fail shortly after.
They are being paid to asses the cranks though, and they will obviously have a much better view of the cranks at inspection than anyone at Shimano can tell from a few photos later.
I think the correct thing to do would be to inspect the cranks and comment “No visible defects noted at time of inspection, based on inspection criteria provided by Shimano”, or similar. What’s the point of carrying out the inspection if you’re not going to document the result?
Those will be busy (and lucrative) coffee rounds from now on with an inspection every week.
But workspace time and space will be taken up by inspections
good job its in winter. If this was 6 weeks ago there would be no chance.
Brilliant video.
That’s the info we all needed.
They are making a mistake with this approach - they think it will limit exposure but it maximizes it. Far better to just replace every one.
I can't imagine that they would have the amount of new cranks needed for that.
What if your Ultegra crank had a product code RI & RJ? What's different about those...
The first letter is the year; the second letter is the month. RI & RJ would be a manufacture date of September (I) & October (J) of 2019 (R) respectively. In theory this would be just beyond the recall window, but I would suggest having them inspected anyway, just to be sure.
I am assuming Shimano made some design or manufacturing change starting in July of 2019 (RG). Pretty sad that Shimano waited so many years to issue a recall. They must have known there was an issue more than 5 years ago.
If the codes are not on the list a bike shop won’t inspect them for free. Most shops would inspect parts like this as part of a service though.
So is just a creak enough to get an exchange, mine has developed a creak in the last few months, only does It drive side.
I'll be taking it into Evans in town which is a new branch, but not 100% convinced they're upto it, the sales staff are certainly not into bikes.
We would send it back on the report of noise
Great video. I have now found 2 out of 3 of my affected crank arms have delaminating issues. Has this officially started??
Yes. All systems go.
I have already had a 9000 crank left arm fail on me. It broke in half and I almost crashed. Now I have a 6800 which I removed in July 2023 because it appeared to me to be separating. I took it to my Shimano dealer and they said it passed inspection. I think it is very clearly starting to separate. I am not going to risk an injury to prove I am right. Very unhappy with how they are handling this problem. I would think they would error on the side of safety and try to show some Goodwill to their customers. At this point that is lost. I will never buy another Shimano product. Do they think that we don't have other options?
Go to a better bike shop. That one clearly doesn’t care.
@@Mapdec Why should they care about the woes of shimano? A good bike shop would start recommending other products.
@@rosomak8244 I’m up for that. Can you suggest a better crankset for £179 that can come bundled with everything else you need when you buy a bike?
@mapdec FC-R7000 for £125 as a starter for ten....
It's a sneaky way for Shimano to shift some liability. If a shop passes a crank and then it fails, who accepts liability?
Curious about 7000 cranks. Shimano says they are Hollowtech, but I cannot find info on how their construction differs from the 8000/9000 recalled cranks. I know it is different somehow.
They are just stamped from one piece of alu.
How do they stamp a hollow crank from one piece? Do they insert a mandrel before stamping or forging?
@@scottsutoob 7000 (105) is one big lump of alu it’s not hollow. It might be cast, either way it’s solid.
Thanks for the thorough explanation. Just too bad that the check can only be made visually and with the naked eye.
Just wondering: in cases where the service center’s visual inspection does not give a certain and obvious “fail”, but the crank is sent back because the technician doesn’t trust that they are good: will Shimano doublecheck cranks that are sent back? Then as a customer I would definitely require a report from Shimano on the tests performed and why the cranks is not replaced.
Will that be provided? Or does Shimano follow the technicians’ verdict and replace them?
It’s a good question. We will find out soon. We have sent back some cranks that are probably a pass, but we want Shimano to confirm.
When the cranks fail after your inspection and Shimano states "you did not inspect them correctly" and will not indemnify you, you're left holding the bag. at least part of it. It's not personal just business, you will likely have to settle out of court. You should have insurance for the legal costs and and harm caused by the failed inspection, or you can sue shimano to recover your costs, and you may, or maynot win. Good Luck!
Well. Actually…. Shimano already gave all their dealers legal documents to say they have that covered, but besides that, almost every bike shop now just sends everything back regardless. We have done this since the start because the way I see it, if they were my cranks I would take them back every week for an inspection.
Sorry I would like to know how does it works in UK in case the inspection is OK. Any certificate is issued? Because in case I would sold the bike the new owner could request it (I would do).
Here in Italy Shimano give nothing.
Sorry for my English.
What if i have a Ultegra FC-R8000 crankset with a code that is not on the recall list? Can you see any difference in build quality / material between cranksets that are on the list and those which are not?
Looks the same externally
How often will "passed" cranks need to be re-inspected?
As often as you feel, until shaimano get sick of you asking and just replace them
Check the data sheet on that Beatty's foam cleaner - likely not skin safe😮
Noted. 🙏
More of Jake please he’s excellent 🤘
Super informative video! Great!!
Glad you liked it!
I need a whole group (cranks, rim brakes, BB, Shifters, Cassette, derailleurs front and back, etc). Does Shimano/SRAM offer a mechanical version?
Yes.
Thanks for the informative video but I'm confused, the shop where I bought my bike told me they weren't being paid for the inspection so If they turned out to be ok then I'd be charged for it.
Show them this video and tell them to read their emails from Madison.
Ive been a Shimano proponent for years. I dont like how they are handling this. Its not the consumers fault you f'ed up the design
Are any of these failing catastrophically without warning? When mine failed they creaked quite obviously and I was able to identify a crack before they completely failed.
Not in my personal experience, but the internet is awash with examples.
@@Mapdec yeah, I was just wondering if people aren't paying attention to the warning signs or if some are just failing instantly, really hope it's not the latter 🫣
@@Mapdecfantastic news, just found a crack in my R9100 crank arm and the serial number is not on the recall list, this should be fun! 😫
So we are going to have to leave the bike at the dealership or do you think this will be a whilst you wait inspection. Bit of a pain in the arris if your nearest authorized dealer is xx miles away.
I would be very interested to know how many inspections you guys have had to do so far, and how many of those failed Shimano's criteria..
I think we just sent in our 8th. All looked ok to us, but we send them off anyway.
So does this mean no more heavily discounted Shimano products after they have been out a short time?
Haha. That will continue as long as their are brands buying frames from China to hang a cheap groupset off.
Ive got Ultegra R8000 cranks & my code is SL, so im guessing mine was manufactured after July 2019? Does that mean mine are 100% safe from these issues?
If you need to charge the inspection hours to Shimano they are better off with just replacing every crank...
great work - how much do you get in the UK for this tedious job? I heard that in the US it is 75 USD, which, to me, considering the work, is not really something the workshops are crying for?
£36. It’s reasonable amount for the time involved.
would you strip the crank from the bike for a customer or do you want just the crankset? can a customer just drop their bike off?@@Mapdec
@@davehourigan643 yes a rider can bring the whole bike in if they are not happy removing cranks.
Atleast you get compensation. Here in little old New Zealand we only get compensated if the crankset is a fail and has to be replaced! Warranty here is a joke. The only brand that does it right is Specialized
I’ve only got the drive side crank on my Ultegra 6800, does this still qualify ???
If the code is on the list
Disappointing have use shimano for many years but 11 years is a joke fir a Japanese company of their standard's
Great, and if replaced how long does that take: ie, how long can we enjoy not riding our bikes for ?:(
We will let you know.
Everyone I know that has an Ultegra or Dura Ace component high level bike has at least one other older or backup bike. If you are serious about biking you normally have more than one bike.
If I am having only one side of the crank because of I sold the other side, would they still exchange for me?
does anyone know if the GRX 810 level cranks were subject to this recall?
Nope.
@@Mapdec You don't know or they weren't recalled?
@@andrehendrik they weren’t recalled. Not on the list
@@Mapdec Thanks
Are dealers expecting the cranks to have been removed from the bike?
However they come.
Do I have to go to the dealer where I bought the bike or anywhere I want? Can I also bring the whole bike or do I need to disassemble the crank from the bike? Thanks
Any dealer. Take them the whole bike if you like.
I thought you weren’t going to do it because your insurer told you not too ?
It seems the photo document serves as a liability release, we are not going to be making the pass fail call though. It’s either a clear fail or ask for Shimano confirmation.
@@Mapdec ok 👍🏼
Realistically such am inspection would need to be carried out every season at least!
Oh yeah. Everytime you hear a little creak or see something that might be a crack. Get it inspected every week. I do wonder how many times we have to inspect before Shimano just say, here. Have a new one.
Shimano should allow people to attest in writing that they’ve had a failure and thrown the crankset out. One replacement per customer, Ultegra level. Maybe require some sort of corroboration, like a bike store attesting that they deemed the warranty not to apply, or photos, or something. Is this going to invite fraud? Sure, and they brought this on themselves. They’re clearly trying to do the minimum.
So, I can have my cranks ( I don´t ride Shimano, but just to simplify.. ) inspected next week, found to be OK, come back with the same crankset in... 4 years, have them inspected and possibly scrapped and being given a brand spanking new crankset?? Rgr
Yeah. I think you have that right
@@Mapdec So it´s NOT a Callback ( as your mechman calls it ), it´s not an Extended Warranty ( as I´ve seen it elsewhere ) but a Lifetime Warranty?? Rgr
Pretty lame of shimano to put dealers in this position, in my opinion they should be recalled as per the US and Canada.
More of Jake please ! rumour is hes the softest rider on chainy
I heard he has to soft pedal so you can keep up 🫡
A visual inspection is useless for all but the most obvious cases. You need to thread a rod through the pedal hole and stress the heck out of the crank this way and that to see the less obvious cracks.
yep
Do you need proof of purchase. I heard some earlier comments abt receipts?
No. The recall notice negates that.
No way I'm having anything to do with these .After giving it the OK and it separates you think You're not liable ? And 36 quid isn't near enough for the time imo especially if it involves a trip to post 1
Yeah. We are not passing anything. Post office box is right next door for us
I run a Campagnolo Super Record 12 carbon Ultra Torque crank (titanium axle) with Ultegra Di2 12-speed. The spacing dimensions are identical and it works perfectly. Stronger, lighter, better looking.
If I am having a 172.5 can I exchange a 170?
What shimano/SRAM mechanical group (rim brakes) can you recommend? Preferably Dura Ace or RED. Thanks.
Personally, I recommend Shimano rim brakes with SLR-EV, which is their symmetrical dual-pivot rim brake structure.
@@sbccbc7471 I need a whole group (cranks, rim brakes, BB, Shifters, Cassette, derailleurs front and back, etc). Does Shimano/SRAM offer a mechanical version?
@@Pertemba40 Both companies do offer mechanical versions of their top-end groupsets, but it's now something you could only get second-hand as they have been discontinued. The last mechanical Dura-Ace is the Dura-Ace R9100.
None.
Dear Mapdec Cycle Works, please increase the gain of your voice recordings for your videos. I can barely hear your voice on some of your videos. I got to turn my volume all the way up and then every other sound, like a windows notification for example is frighteningly loud.
Trying
Click on the CC and you can watch lower and read the subtitles to help
Shameful practices by them. If not for the threat of American courts they wouldn't be doing this. This is all a cost saving measure for them to compete with proper carbon cranks. The four arm spider is also a cost savings that made cranks unattractive and eaiser to cast two halves to glue together. This is the reason that brand will never get another cent from my wallet.
Glad the shops are being paid something I am sure you could sell tune ups and chains at the same time to make it worth doing. If I owned a shop the 43 bucks to inspect would be cutting it close to losing money. The hourly shop rates here are 100 bucks. To take in the bike, inspect, reassemble, file and load for customer in about 20 to 25 minutes would be have to be fast. That is not counting cleaners gloves or any other stuff.
The form filling is the most time consuming part.
Just a visual inspection without applying any radial force seems insufficient.
Yeah. Totally agree
Cant get a thing out of Shimano re Irish customers ! No appointed inspectors yet. Shimano, lets keep this simple, initiative a full product recall, just like in the US. Those with power meters get a credit not or refund. Why are European purchasers being treated differently ?
My bike is 4 weeks gone and Shimano have advised my LBS in Dublin another 4 weeks
@@danielryan5702 that's utter bollox, not fair on the customer, along with liability issues should the crank fail in the future, having been given the all clear now !
What a rubbish form Shimano have created... You think they could have at least created an app rather than a poor spreadsheet.
I know right. Ball ache from the 1990s
"I inspected you crank. It looks fine. Here you have your overpriced crap back." Nice.
Let us know if that’s the experience you get from your bike shop.
For me, your volume/sound level is a bit low. The sound effect from screen transitions is loud though. Something you’ve done recently has caused a change. It had been fine.
Thank you. Hopefully learning with every upload. As we change location and presenter we are failing to be consistent
Oh God, tedious...
i do not car eabout this because of we are at mass production stange of new Absolute Titanium chain rings and ni need ni more to use this Shimano crap ;)
Totally ridiculous and Shimano are being so scummy. I switched to all new SRAM Force and T-Type on my bikes and couldn't be happier. Better build quality, better features, actually great powermeters, better app integration....Shimano is super janky.