I only deal with workhorse bikes, not those fancy sleek racehorse rigs, so having a durable drivetrain on a durable frame with durable components is a dream come true for me
Mistake at 3:05, universal pull ratio does NOT mean the sprocket spacing is the same. Rather it means the number of mm the mech moves for each mm of cable pulled by the shifter is the same. BTW Shimano road groupsets originally had a universal pull ratio all the way up to 10 speed, until 11 speed and subsequent 10 speed groupsets came along with different pull ratios.
I think that you're spot on about the reasoning for the thicker teeth of Linkglide. Shimano need to reduce the number of cassettes that retailers need to support, so it makes sense to be able to use the same for both bikes and ebikes. The hub change is long overdue and very welcome, I hope that they maintain their price competitiveness.
@@mickvonbornemann3824 The need to support thicker-geared cassettes was inevitable because of ebkies. Transitioning traditional bikes to the thicker-geared cassettes will allow Shimano to drop support for many thinner-geared cassettes earlier. At the high-end where every gram matters, thinner-geared cassettes will continue to be produced. For the vast majority of bikes though, they will likely disappear. That won't happen overnight, but it will happen sooner that it would without this transition.
6:43 It's likely to help keep a plastic bashing in place, thus the holes in the chainring. But that will snap off easily if impact is too hard, at least if they use the same plastic as before.Very common to see snapped plastic bash rings on kids bikes.
Replacement hub bearings for commuter bikes is in theory a great idea and long overdue from Shimano, but the reality is that 80% of them will end up neglected by their users, corroded, run into the ground and so costly to refurb after the cages collapse that people will buy new wheels anyway. The move to sprockets that require freehubs that are so small in diameter that cup and cone bearings are too small to be durable, especially when combined with thru-axles, is probably the main motivator here.
Sorry but the only people that need to do loose ball hubs is campy… yes I know I’ve had vintage 105 and 600 equipped road bikes and the only other hubs that can be that bulletproof other that Shimano loose ball hubs are campy and they will always be fast and smoother that sealed cartridge bearings but as a bmxer and a bicycle mechanic every hub on mtb, e bikes ,and anything else that takes a lateral and torque loads more than 250ish lbs needs to have sealed bearings no matter the quality of the bike it’s easier and cheaper for everyone and it makes it a good selling point … just like 105 now😂😂😂😂 remember braided stainless steel cables dont need to be charged nor synced just looked after. 😊
I had some Shimano wheels on my road bike. It has been taken apart and greased. After one snowy/cold ride it was basically dry. It was a good weather rear wheel I guess.
Honestly, huge fan of the pull ratios being the same, and the chains being the same. Hopefully they come out with drop bar versions. It would be really nice to go back to not thinking about pull ratios, which derailer works with which shifter, etc. This would mean it will be all the more likely my LBS has a serviceable replacement part on hand too.
Supposedly this is replacing everything between tourney and 105/SLX on both the mtb and road lines over the next year or 3 so will include drop bar shifters.
@@jeremykumbruch9344 sure, but right now I'm pretty sure that across the last few versions of sora, tiagra, and that other one, there are like 6 different pull ratios including one for a single revision of a 10 speed group, so there is nothing for it to really be compatible with.
There's an irony (unintended pun) in that square end BB axles, engineering caveats permitting, are not much heavier, if at all, than the latter innovations. It's worthy of a discussion in itself.
6:39 “raised cup thing” They are typical embossed/debossed forming from stamping process, for assisting chain shifting. Very common in entry level chain rings (found on my bike:) That perhaps, also indicates it’s made of heavier steel alloy and not light alu alloy?
Except there's a problem with that, as anyone trying to triplize a dual crankset can attest (old-timers know this): If it hangs off the side of the chainring, it fouls shift-transiting cogs, not helps it.
pro bike mech here, thank for the video, very thorough for a five year old. i am really happy with the direction shimano is going with this here. i have longed for Industrial bearings in budget wheelsets for a long time its always frustrating when you have to tell clients their wheel is dead and its cheaper to change the wheel than replace the bearings (even on a good quality deore hub). interchangeablility is the best, i just wonder if it is compatible with one of the old groups, that would be rad. I call Ebikes gear grinders. not lying, its good for the trade financially because you change a lot of sprockets and chains. but the amount of waste is phenomenal, its frustrating. and there is so much stupidity! like ebike with shitty 8s drivetrain that last 600 k or city bikes with 12s mtb cassette where they only use the first 5 gears. From the clients perspective durability is a good thing. i hope it ia real and not just a marketing ploy. and the small half disks on the large chainring are here to help the chain go up from the small to big chainring.
My cat was on my desk when Hambini shouted his signature intro, and the poor thing freaked out, fleeing the scene faster than Eddie Merckx descending Alpe D'Huez. I actually quite like square taper BBs, whether "cartridge" or cup and cone. Simple, effective, and familiar. I truly miss the days when everybody used square taper, albeit with many different thread standards (meaning no real standard at all), but I hope nobody ever markets a cottered crankset again.
I bent a cheap shimano triple chain set that had riveted chainrings. I shifted chainrings while on the power kinda hard. I thought it was absurd because I’ve done much nastier shifts on my road bike and never bent the rings and now they had to replace the entire crank because of the rivets. I hope these chainrings are much stronger
At 52, things have changed a lot. I used shimano deore xt when i Started riding mountain bikes. Moved over to xtr, then got a paul Rear mech, which i still ride on today. That rear mech was 250 pounds, 20 Years ago. Syncros bars, and seat post. All of which no longer exist. X lite had some Cool trick bolts a bits in anadized titanium. Those were the days. Nice video hanbini. 👍
I believe that in the case of the cranks you will be able to install aftermarket cranks with the appropriate chain. Shimano is specifying an 11 speed chain for all CUES groups. So any thin-thick chainring will have be able to work. I imagine we will start to see some different cranksets installed on some of the mid-range & up models.
Looking at Shimano's web page (US) about CUES the spec d BB is a BB-MT801. I think the bit you're looking at is a website typo. The holes in the chainring are for mounting a chain guard. The website also mentions "PCD" which is Shimanospeak for BCD of 110. Which is the same weird off set 4 arm spider they use for a lot of their mountain cranks (and they have blind bolts that go in from the ND side. So I don't think it's riveted.
I think your analysis that this is a group set designed with electric bikes in mind is right. This is the biggest market at the moment. The gravel market that is combining different groupsets to have a certain outcome is not really a big market and they will still have options coming from china or 'boutique' brands like white industries and the like. The square taper combined with the riveted chainrings shows to me it's made for the 'consumer' market who buys a bike and rides the same sprockets and BB until they are completely toast and at that point they don't care about changing the whole set. I have the people in mind who ride with a rusty noisy chain (you know who they are). The square taper is probably also for easy chain alignment with different gearing systems. Like hub gearing systems and the like. Easy to alight it with square taper.
The cup and cone bearings basicly never wear out, if you adjust pre-tension and grease them properly. Both not possible on common modern cartridge bearing hubs. Their position, quite narrow to the dropouts and the freewheel sitting on the hub body and not the axle, are two aspects, that improve reliability as well. I've always been a Shimano boy, because of their easy peasy hubs.
You mean wide/near to the dropouts? Cup and cone is great in the outback/3rd world countries, but I've lost hours knocking out cups from hubs and finding suitably spaced cones to suit the new bearing spacing and wheel seals
Neglect a Shimano cup and cone and it will keep going for years (even cheap Quando and Joytech brands), whereas a cartridge bearing will completely seize once the seals fail in my experience. That's why my commuter bike which has to cope with rain and Winter road salt has Deore cup and cone hubs.
I've gone back to cup and cone on my long distance bike, I got fed up with replacing cartridge bearings, and before a big event having to decide to keep the bearings that had done a few 000km or change just in case. I know with cup and cone an annual service is probably excessive, and the rest of the year I'll not need to think about it.
Bike wrench here, yes they last forever IF properly adjusted and greased, but how many people actually take care of their stuff? I've had to have so many uncomfortable phone calls with people because the most financially logical way to fix shredded bearing races is usually a whole new wheel. I think for the market it's aimed at, sealed bearings make a lot more sense. I doubt the rest of their lineup of hubs will abandon cup and cone anytime soon.
Just ordered a cues crankset (chainset) for my gravel bike. It arrived as a 2 piece hollowtech style crankset with an adjuster barrel on the non-drive side to adjust the lateral play. Just thought I would share since it looks like they have cranksets designed for hollowtech bottom brackets.
@@Hambini The Shimano reps yesterday were chatting about how it’s going to be OEM on almost every new bike. It kind of locks you into an upgrade path. Interesting.
@@Mapdec It simplifies OEM's supply chain-- maybe a lesson from being burned from the covid supply chain failures. If most things are interchangeable, you don't care too much if you have to swap in a different part just to get something out the door. Simpler supply chain also help increase profit margins through economy of scale-- something which is pretty important in this economy.
Unfortunately it sounds like the pull ratio for cues is different than existing Shimano MTB 9-10-11 speed components. So you cannot directly mix MTB components pre-cues with cues.
Cues Di2 has been around for ~6 months now. A major motivation was as you said - the motor’s torque would shred the small cassette cogs. This was really compounded as many riders wouldn’t shift down and would just rip away at full tilt.
What a great time to be alive. Regular bike components being ruined (i.e. made heavier) because of the specific needs of e-bike users. The next step would be using motorcycle chains and sprockets on road bikes because some company can't be arsed to design and manufacture specific components for specific needs. Given how much traction the e-bike market has got lately, what they should have done is to develop e-bike specific groupsets, not to screw with everybody who wants a cheap, simple and lightweight groupset on their beer and burger powered bike.
@@11robotics it’s a really complex situation and from a purely business view, I get why Shimano is making the jump. There’s been a lot of discontent from manufacturers over groupset combinations they can buy. Meanwhile, companies like Microshift are making inroads into the mid-market segment. And looking at if from the consumer end, I’m honestly curious as to how well it actually shifts under load. I know in some bike shops, poor shifting is often the fault of poor technique
@@eva-kr8pf oh I totally get their perspective. They are clearly reducing their development, distribution, storage and technical support costs with this move - ironically, with a very likely increase of the cost for the end user. But as an end user of bike components, what I want is either new products that better fit my needs for a similar or marginally higher cost than the previous ones, or cheaper solutions that fit my needs just as well. CUES components are neither, as they are heavier, more agricultural, more expensive and arguably more limited in terms of choice if they also decide to fully ditch rim braking on their road versions as well, their only real upside being the full cable pull ratio compatibility across the range. The only users who may arguably gain something from this move are e-bike users and perhaps those who want a rugged, more robust and more maintenance free bike (commuters, tourers, etc.).
@@MarioGoatse older as in what, 10 speed Dura-Ace groupsets identical to those manufactured over 10 years ago? Not at all. Even the "we are going to keep manufacturing them anyway" 11-speed R7000 and R8000 mechanical rim brake groupsets will eventually be discontinued.
Hi Mr Hambini. I have recently replaced the ball bearings( small ones) in a rear Shimano GRX wheel( wheel no 2). This was after the ball bearings failed in the hub after about 1000km. I purchased this second wheel after the ball bearings failed in in the first GRX wheel I purchased. I thought the first failure was due to user error installing the wheel . The cone appeared cracked in the first wheel and 3 or 4 balls were destroyed after only 300km. So I purchased the second wheel and very carefully installed the wheel making sure the wheel spun freely after tightening the axle nuts(surly midnight special ) The bearings went aprox 1000km before the horrible noise in hub started again. Pulled it apart and one ball was aprox half a ball, several others were damaged on inspection through magnified lens. So I purchased some higher spec balls (more round) and replaced using marine grease. Have you seen or heard of a batch of faulty ball bearings used by shimano?
I haven't heard of this but when I have bought Shimano wheels or hubs the first thing I do is replace the grease with marine grade grease (as much as possible) and adjust the hub play so that it spins nicely as it's too tight from the factory. I replace grease every 1000km and bearings every 2000km (just in case). I haven't worn out my dura ace hubs I bought in 2008!
@@richardggeorge Yes I replaced the grease with marine grade on second wheel before install . Made sure wheel spun freely after install ,also loosening cones as I think axle compresses on install torque. Still the bearings lasted 1000km! I suspect cheap faulty balls from factory . Now have enough balls for several maintenance repacks.
@@2321brendan maybe they are cutting costs or even some dodgy quality control going on. I use stainless balls from eBay of questionable quality but they appear to be smooth to touch and eyeballing them
agreed, definitely an e-bike focused move. landfills are about to be awash in ebikes (both the cheap ones and not so cheap ones)... hopefully this will help with that
@@rangersmith4652 Maybe i'm wrong. I'm in the United States. All the cheap $700-$1200 ebikes, and there are *lots* of them, are going straight to the landfill, at the first $3-500 service bill (if that service bill is even written, little to no consumer support from many online retailers, we offer brakeset upgrades, but it's just too expensive for the people who bought these disposable bikes). The more expensive bikes are significantly better, but even then, more and more customers with 5-10k miles or so on their bosch mid-drive units, balking at the need for bearing rebuilds (or motor replacments, as the parts and labor for a bearing rebuild is roughly 50% of the cost of a new motor). Insistence that these should be warranty replacements. Then you have all the normal consumables needing to be replaced, the paint has faded and the scratches are showing. Ultimately e-bikes need to be lifted/carried, at least for short distances. I just don't see it working out. They're just not durable enough to justify the cost, except for older wealthier leisure riders. So to the landfill they'll go. Of course... this is a problem for lots of semi-durable goods, certainly including regular bikes. I think Shimano's attempts to build more durable parts for the needs of the e-bike, non-performance rider will help, and should be commended.
@@00100Matt You could be right; I was just curious about your statement. I'm also in the US. Your analysis links well to the research I did before purchasing my e-bike, a Ride1Up LMT'D, which retails for a tick under 2-grand. Not high-end, but not Amazon junk either. Ride1Up has a pretty good reputation for service, but I have not needed to test that. I've ridden it very little because shortly after I got it, to get back into riding after nearly a decade of almost no riding, I discovered I could still ride a conventional bike without real issues. As little as I use it, it will either last forever or become unusable from lethargy in a couple of years. I should probably try to sell it. I can see what you mean about inexpensive e-bikes not being worth fixing. I wonder how many of them will wind being converted to regular pedal bikes -- might be an industry there for some young entrepreneur.
@@rangersmith4652 Cheap ebikes are built in such volume but with non-standard parts that the factory will basically make it once and then kill the line. This means when they break the cost to repair is massive because there is few parts for them....and the spares that exist are listed and stupid high prices. Sorta like cheap smart phones...but they at least last a few years and have no serviceable pats typically.
@@trepidati0n533 It's like that with whatever has a surge in demand. Temporary retooling of a flexible Chinese assembly line, cheapest parts possible, fancy paint. Flood a mass distribution system with pricing that undercuts everyone else. Make a tidy profit and move on.
I think the 9-10-11 speed compatibility is definitely a good thing, but I do hate that you won't be able to service the crankset or bottom bracket. I really hope they won't extend that throwaway culture to the road CUES groupo. I'd actually prefer they didn't touch the affordable road groupsets at all, well maybe apart from bumping Tiagra shifters to 11-speed now that Shimano seem to be killing off mechanical 105.
When the crappy crank fails just replace it with a crankset from another series, like Alivio/ Deore for the integrated axle, modern BB and replaceable rings .
Just don't buy the CUES cranksets, I won't. The CUES chain is based on an 11 speed chain width and you can use ANY non Shimano 11s crankset (or a nicer Shimano 11s crankset).
@@tonycaluda1868 This replaces alivio. deore is mountains specific 12s (narrow chain) and not *technically* compatible. generally you would just go up the chain to a higher end cues (they go up to XT quality level) - or buy a non shimano crank and ring. Tiagra is dead as well, replaced by upcoming drop bar cues parts.
I was surprised to hear that the balls are harder than the cups and cones... I would have thought that the balls, which are easily replaced, would be sacrificial to the bearing surfaces - particularly the cups that are part of the hub. I am currently on 2 x 8 Tourney - Altus combination on my shopping bike, and I wish it was simpler to get spares.
Shimano actually has made at least one "cartridge" bearing hub in the past few years, the FH-MT401. I laced one up for a friend about 2 years ago, and we were surprised by the bearings! Probably gives a good idea of how the CUES hubs will be designed.
what a weird model..... 135mm QR, but Micro-Spline - didn't know they were making that combination.... but wait, 480 grams without skewer - what? Oh Shimano....
@@cthulpiss It's purpose was to have a non series hub for bike makers that didn't want to pay for SLX/XT etc (or deal with the sylence mechanism which is iffy). It is also super cheap in comparison at about $20 (retail store prices vary as it was never meant to be a retail store part).
He didn't say that. The cup and cone bearings were outboard. The new cartridge bearing will be on each end of the hub and the freehub will have 2 bearings just like every other hub made.
Mark is correct, they are moving towards a more commonly adopted bearing setup. The other point I would make is the use of 6000 series bearings has a more radial bias over angular contact cup and cone, it suggests they have done it for the increased weight and torque of e bikes
I hope the pull ratio and the shift feel of CUES is more like 10 speed Shimano, rather than 12 Shimano mtb. I also really hope they don't kill off Claris, Sora, and Tiagra. They're good, dependable groupsets that just need good housing/cables, a hydro brake option, or a stronger rim brake caliper.
Claris, Sora, Tiagra will 100% be killed off once they have drop bar CUES. One of the motivation for CUES to reduce SKUs and maximize interoperability. They have no incentive to improve the Claris/Sora/Tiagra lineup. CUES is their answer for hyrdo brake Claris/Sora/Tiagra. CUES is their answer to 9 speed claris, 10 speed sora, 11 speed tiagra.
remember the old tech with a freewheel . because the bearing is near to the center of the hub it left lots of axle sticking out past the bearing which may have worked with 5 speed (cogs). with 7 speed it was common to break the axle. so shimano came out with the freehub body which was the standard until the 10 tooth cog came along. so now with this new tech called CUES they moved the bearing back towards the center of the hub. I was wondering if the axle would break and maybe not because the freehub may offer some support. any thoughts and thanks
So does this mean that if one will use CUES they can only mix and match within CUES ecosystem and not be able to use any aftermarket drivetrain components?
I know you've gone into alternative frames and framesets made by OEM's, but are there any quality components and groupsets that may be flying under the radar?
One criticism I've seen with the pull ratio is that it doesn't match ANY other Shimano groupset, so no using CUES components to replace worn/broken parts on older 9/10/11 speed MTB groupsets. Also interesting that this will also basically overlap with the Deore 10 and 11 speed drivetrains, which makes me wonder if bikes that are currently shipping with Deore 10s or 11s may be downgrading to CUES soon to save a buck.
Linkglide cassettes were introduced last year when Shimano announced automatic shifting Di2 for ebikes. So they're 100% prompted by the popularity of ebikes.
Brian is right. Pull ratio is the ratio between shifter pull and deraillier movement. E.g. Tiagra 4700 and 105 got the same cable pull RATIO, but the pull is different, so you have to match your cassette to the shifter. But the derailier is the same (and officially the chain)
Thanks for the great video. Regarding the square taper bottom brackets. I was of the impression that square tapered bottom brackets are common in the commuter/budget market which i feel this is kind of what this groupset is targeted at?
Any mentions on backwards compatibility with 105/Tiagra/Sora? Now that 105 has gone 12s, disc only, and electronic, what am i supposed to do if one of the parts in my R7000 fail?
It's its own thing. From the tests I've seen the cable pull for link glide is 3.5mm or the same as sram 11s x actuation. Derailleur Ratio is its own thing too 1.25 vs 1.4 for Shimano 11s road.
Yeah, if a person isn’t trying to climb insane hills, or bomb descents at 45mph, 1x with a wide-range cassette is the way to go, even on a “road” bike.
I've got a deore crankset with a narrow wide alloy chainring off aliexpress and it's worked fine for 10 and 11 spd. I think microshift also have their pull ratios the same from their 9 to 11 shifters.
Two things, the wheels collapse without the freehub doesn’t show off the inherent strength of the design. Zipp hubs are prone to bent axles like all hubs with the non integrated freehub design. Shimano and to some extent, mavic are my go to for folks that bend axles. The other thing is that the chain is indeed contacting a wider tooth. While some are thinned out like that,most sit down a bit more than you suggested.
1:00 no mention of XTR as they've pretty much dropped that and the release of CUES is the race to the bottom. Trying to compete on the lowest level given their engineers have gone to sleep.
I say old bean; CUES doesn't seem to mean Cambridge University Engineering Society, what what? Confused. Are oinks involved somewhat and it means something more plebian?
Can't figure out if the cues 9 speed chain & cassette will be comparability with usal alivip / deorr 9 speed rear mech and shifter... Not sure of spacing of cues vs regular
I remember back in the day.. 👴🏻 we would clean the grease out of hubs, pack them with fresh balls and polishing compound, reassemble and spin the axles on a drill for 5-10 min to polish the races. Then pull apart, clean and reassemble with fresh balls and Philwood grease 👌🏻
The square taper BB is actually pretty dope, I really like how easy it is to work on and how cheap the parts are. Is the whole cues system gonna be cheap and easy to build with? Probably not, but that’s just the industry these days. They’re definitely trying to hunt down microshift advent/adventX with this stuff
@@sepg5084 I believe the thoughts of having square tapered spindle is: 1. Most of those who bought these categories may not own crank pulley tools and won’t be bothered 2. They will somehow send the bikes to LBS, as those cranks are usually super tight at factory (based on my personal experience with mine;( 3. This category is market-driven by their targeted market; existing square tapered-spec’d group of bikes and ebikes markets.
As an owner of Acolyte, Advent 9 & X setups, I've yet to notice another local trail rider using them. Hambini is probably correct guessing Shimano is prepping for the growth of generic Chinese/Alibaba drivetrain parts. You know the type that are branded as whatever the seller's name is...JOYFUNPANDAHAPPY crankset
In my opinion it's all about the costs. Shimano has'nt to produce different groupsets. All fits together and is interchagable, like you mentioned. So in terms of chinese groupsets it should be more cost-comptitive
I know I'm a bit late, but, would a Sram "brifter" with a 1:1 pull ratio operate a Cues rear derailler on a regular Shimano/Sram (ie lighter) cassette? Thinking about mullett gearing with rim brakes?
I’m excited. I have gravel-ish bike, currently fitted with flat bars and MTB/XT parts (3x9). Was hoping the GRX would have been compatible, but no, shimano went the roadie route and there is no alternative that would allow occasionally changing between flat and drop bars and to have hydraulic brakes. But this looks like a winner, with hydraulic option, all the gearing and ability to change bar type. Have to see how it goes but would be great if I would be able to keep the XT brakes and buy the 2x11 gears, derailleurs and road levers. If (when) it’s heavier I can use that money on wheels.
Is there any technical reason (so not marketing) why these groupsets should not be fittet to e.g. an enduro bike? I don't care about weight, but costs and durability... So is there a chance SLX might get some influence?
So, a 9-speed CUES cassette will have the same sprocket spacing as an 11-speed CUES cassette, but will sit on the hub with a substantial spacer under the biggest sprocket? Have I understood that right?
The 26 and 28 bearings each seem to have a big and small element - surely that is mis-labelled. The thin ones are entirely unsuited to bike use, and will have a very short service life - every maker has learned that over the years. The 9-10-11 compatibility is good, but I wonder how it relates to products that are already in the field, since before y2k ?
I just upgraded from 9speed Sora to some Ultegra spares I've accumulated on an old CX bike, didn't do it in the past because 9 speed hub on the wheels, turns out it was a 9/10 speed hub, and a cassette that's 11 speed being compatible with a 10 speed hub meant, 9 speed hub 11speed cassette all good. wonder if this will let them reintroduce the 9 or 10 or 11 speed hub and make them non compatible with others, always the pessimist.
I'm not sure how worried Shimano really is about the chinese groupsets, they'll always have a major share in the market from brand recognition alone. The mid/low end road groupsets were overdue for a major overhaul and repositioning either way, so I assume that is what they are going to do with (rumoured) future dropbar versions of CUES.
the biggest letdown for this new groupset is that despite its target demographic being more on the frugal-consumer spectrum, they have decided to make the legacy
There's one aspect of Shimano's introduction of the CUES groupset that Hambini didn't touch on: how Chinese commodification of 7,8,9 spd drivetrain components is squeezing Shimano. I'm still running high quality 8 and 9 spd HG (Ultregra and DA) drivetrains on several of my bikes but have been using Chinese cassettes, chainrings and chains for years. I suspect Shimano's strategic withdrawal from that market segment is an acknowledgement that profit margins favour Chinese manufacturers.
Well done Shimano l only see improvements . The new hubs are fantastic with the ability to swap between thru axles and quick release skewers on the same hub body using bushes . So the sealed bearings are not the only improvement . The new 1:1 pull ratio for compatability between nearly all CUES groupsets is a great improvement . And the sturdy rear cassette for longevity and to handle the increased torque of E-bikes is great . The end of the triple front chainring was a long time coming . Hope they update the XT and XTR DI2 to twelve speed soon . Shimano leaps ahead . 😎👍
I think Shimano is really after MicroShift more than anything else with a lot of this. MicroShift with their Acolyte, Advent and Advent X drivetrains have been eating Shimano's lunch at the lower end of the spectrum. MicroShift has much more advanced drivetrains for a very low price point, and a lot of bike manufacturers are specing them instead of Shimano. Also, it bears mentioning, there will be a hollowtech bottom Bracket.
Am torn on Tiagra being enveloped into this CUES steamroller. It was closer to *The Groupset of the People* than 105 and I always viewed it's next evolution as being a lightly modified R7000 with relabelling. SHIM already has the tooling and known production costs. BOOM! entry level 'racing' groupset is sorted for a decade+ without the need for electricity nor the paywall into Di2 for roughly 1/2 the price. [srsly, at what point below CatA does Di2 matter?] 11spd HG chains are compatible with the LG rings... this'll be the diff' twixt leccy powertrains and non ones? The excess material thickness left on cogs seems rather excessive. Like a 'first time around' over engineering. Can see it thinning down. Did I read somewhere that crankset rings are riveted on or will that just be for the SQ drive models type thing? I can't see benefit in not being able to swap rings around if one wants "for long trekking trips", especially if CUES is to drown out the Chinese rivals. CUES s e e m s like the groupset that's been asked for for ages, but I guess we'll see how fixable EVERYTHING is within it once hands can be gotten on it, or if just more overhyped, mid way reaching, business simplification disguised as benefit.
I thought I read somewhere that Shimano expect these chains, cassettes, to last about three times longer than hyperglide? If so I think that's excellent... I'd happily take a little extra cassette weight for that. Could be very good for long distance tourers (who don't want to shell out for, say, a Rohloff Hub system bike). I hope they bring out downtube/bar end shifters for it. Surely those will be easy to manufacture. So that we have more options to retrofit this onto older frames...(plus some of us tourers just like using them...).
Streamlining their production process means less tooling to develop and less cost. I hope it translates to the price as well but im not optimistic. I dont like the riveted chainrings. Thats a huge negative for me.
from cost perspective, yes it's a significant saving calling those alivio, acera, tourney, stx, lx and what not, as CUES, period. read somewhere that shimano predicted 2023 revenue might come down a quarter? right time for savings.
Being a roadie for years I tried to build an MTB for myself... Stupidly I ended up buying a wheelset with a Microspline Freehub - while wanted to go 11s (because all of the bikes of my family are 11s and therefore you need the same spares for all)... Since there never has been an 11s Microspline cassette (even tough announced and so often asked for) I highly doubt that Shimano will do anything to enable people to actually use their gear for as long as possible... The "planned obsolence" part of needing to find the right used parts to keep your 7700-Groupset running, made them good business for years...
Other companies will bring out CUES chainrings and shifter ratio adapters,.drill out the rivets and fit new chainrings. If you have a mid drive motor such as BBS02 then hub gears is really the answer (Aldine, Rohloff). Shimano should brought out a Gates belt drive system and make the Alfine hub thru axle compatible
Making Alfine thru-axle compatible would require a complete redesign of all the internals. It will happen one day, I would imagine - but it's a big move to make and will be a costly change to implement.
Yeah, this officially marks the end of an era. The era marked by the race for the lightest road or MTB groupset that gets the job done. Once they also announce the road-oriented version of CUES, I'm pretty sure all their new groupsets will be: - heavier than their older counterparts with the same (or the closest available) gearing - more expensive than their older counterparts with the same (or the closest available) gearing - obviously disc brake only - to various degrees, incompatible with any of the previous groupsets (one could only hope the cog pitch and chain widths of the new 11 speed cassettes and chains will be identical to the old ones, but I will totally not be shocked if they aren't) This makes for a great challenge though: finding out how many years can go by using only NOS, second-hand and hoarded components to keep my current bikes going without using any of the sh1temano's latest components. No road bike of mine will have disc brakes, electronic groupsets, or heavier components than those it already has. Let the shopping begin.
What I don't like, is if they're retiring all those other groupset levels, it's gonna get more expensive to service/upgrade existing bikes. If you have old 9 or 10 speed, you'll have to go microshift, or in some cases shell out for a new drivetrain & rear wheel... plus the forgiving tolerances of 9 speed have their appeal among the "bent my hanger again" crowd.
This is the universally accepted gesture for using a shifter, right?
11:11
I'm sure he does this on purpose. How did he keep it together with the comment about illegal grandmas
You missed the one about pushing the grandma's button
@@Hambini I swear you were a granny's button hair away from corpsing on that.
I only deal with workhorse bikes, not those fancy sleek racehorse rigs, so having a durable drivetrain on a durable frame with durable components is a dream come true for me
"Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it."
Boris the sneaky fucking russian
Hello Boris
Thanks hamboney
Bone15
BoneAfied
Mistake at 3:05, universal pull ratio does NOT mean the sprocket spacing is the same. Rather it means the number of mm the mech moves for each mm of cable pulled by the shifter is the same.
BTW Shimano road groupsets originally had a universal pull ratio all the way up to 10 speed, until 11 speed and subsequent 10 speed groupsets came along with different pull ratios.
I think that you're spot on about the reasoning for the thicker teeth of Linkglide. Shimano need to reduce the number of cassettes that retailers need to support, so it makes sense to be able to use the same for both bikes and ebikes. The hub change is long overdue and very welcome, I hope that they maintain their price competitiveness.
but this means as well as providing support for all the previous ones they sold, now there's even more to support
@@mickvonbornemann3824 The need to support thicker-geared cassettes was inevitable because of ebkies. Transitioning traditional bikes to the thicker-geared cassettes will allow Shimano to drop support for many thinner-geared cassettes earlier.
At the high-end where every gram matters, thinner-geared cassettes will continue to be produced. For the vast majority of bikes though, they will likely disappear. That won't happen overnight, but it will happen sooner that it would without this transition.
Everything very clearly explained without getting too complicated. Great video.
6:43 It's likely to help keep a plastic bashing in place, thus the holes in the chainring. But that will snap off easily if impact is too hard, at least if they use the same plastic as before.Very common to see snapped plastic bash rings on kids bikes.
Replacement hub bearings for commuter bikes is in theory a great idea and long overdue from Shimano, but the reality is that 80% of them will end up neglected by their users, corroded, run into the ground and so costly to refurb after the cages collapse that people will buy new wheels anyway. The move to sprockets that require freehubs that are so small in diameter that cup and cone bearings are too small to be durable, especially when combined with thru-axles, is probably the main motivator here.
meanwhile it is (was?) easy to regrease or replace old cup and cone, I've done it with 30+ years old bikes.
Sorry but the only people that need to do loose ball hubs is campy… yes I know I’ve had vintage 105 and 600 equipped road bikes and the only other hubs that can be that bulletproof other that Shimano loose ball hubs are campy and they will always be fast and smoother that sealed cartridge bearings but as a bmxer and a bicycle mechanic every hub on mtb, e bikes ,and anything else that takes a lateral and torque loads more than 250ish lbs needs to have sealed bearings no matter the quality of the bike it’s easier and cheaper for everyone and it makes it a good selling point … just like 105 now😂😂😂😂 remember braided stainless steel cables dont need to be charged nor synced just looked after. 😊
And with Campy hubs you can buy replacement cones AND cups which screw in! Shimano do replacement cones too.
I had some Shimano wheels on my road bike. It has been taken apart and greased. After one snowy/cold ride it was basically dry. It was a good weather rear wheel I guess.
Shimano has offered 11 t sprockets for over 25 years now. Why do you think they waited this long to ditch cup-and-cone?
Honestly, huge fan of the pull ratios being the same, and the chains being the same. Hopefully they come out with drop bar versions. It would be really nice to go back to not thinking about pull ratios, which derailer works with which shifter, etc. This would mean it will be all the more likely my LBS has a serviceable replacement part on hand too.
Supposedly this is replacing everything between tourney and 105/SLX on both the mtb and road lines over the next year or 3 so will include drop bar shifters.
I have heard though that the pull ratio will not be compatible with legacy components 😞
@@jeremykumbruch9344 sure, but right now I'm pretty sure that across the last few versions of sora, tiagra, and that other one, there are like 6 different pull ratios including one for a single revision of a 10 speed group, so there is nothing for it to really be compatible with.
Or, keep it simple & just do a 31.8 shifter clamp so the flat bar shifter can be mounted on a drop bar.
6:53 Square taper BBs with single piece alloy cranks are still pretty common on entry level and commuter bikes.
There's an irony (unintended pun) in that square end BB axles, engineering caveats permitting, are not much heavier, if at all, than the latter innovations. It's worthy of a discussion in itself.
Yup, 80 percent of the bikes I work on have them 🙂
…and they’re absolutely awful with flex at the square taper joint.
@@GHinWI Based on what? Flex isn't a problem, it's the weight per given strength that's the factor needed.
6:39 “raised cup thing”
They are typical embossed/debossed forming from stamping process, for assisting chain shifting. Very common in entry level chain rings (found on my bike:)
That perhaps, also indicates it’s made of heavier steel alloy and not light alu alloy?
Except there's a problem with that, as anyone trying to triplize a dual crankset can attest (old-timers know this): If it hangs off the side of the chainring, it fouls shift-transiting cogs, not helps it.
Except they are on the outside of the chainring not the inside.
Yo Hambini! You seem a little more upbeat and your awesome self again, and that makes me fucking happy.
pro bike mech here, thank for the video, very thorough for a five year old.
i am really happy with the direction shimano is going with this here.
i have longed for Industrial bearings in budget wheelsets for a long time its always frustrating when you have to tell clients their wheel is dead and its cheaper to change the wheel than replace the bearings (even on a good quality deore hub).
interchangeablility is the best, i just wonder if it is compatible with one of the old groups, that would be rad.
I call Ebikes gear grinders. not lying, its good for the trade financially because you change a lot of sprockets and chains. but the amount of waste is phenomenal, its frustrating. and there is so much stupidity! like ebike with shitty 8s drivetrain that last 600 k or city bikes with 12s mtb cassette where they only use the first 5 gears.
From the clients perspective durability is a good thing. i hope it ia real and not just a marketing ploy.
and the small half disks on the large chainring
are here to help the chain go up from the small to big chainring.
My cat was on my desk when Hambini shouted his signature intro, and the poor thing freaked out, fleeing the scene faster than Eddie Merckx descending Alpe D'Huez.
I actually quite like square taper BBs, whether "cartridge" or cup and cone. Simple, effective, and familiar. I truly miss the days when everybody used square taper, albeit with many different thread standards (meaning no real standard at all), but I hope nobody ever markets a cottered crankset again.
I bent a cheap shimano triple chain set that had riveted chainrings. I shifted chainrings while on the power kinda hard. I thought it was absurd because I’ve done much nastier shifts on my road bike and never bent the rings and now they had to replace the entire crank because of the rivets. I hope these chainrings are much stronger
This is the reason why I'm still clinging on my old Truvativ 3x, it's sturdy AF and if a chainring craps out you can just swap it for a new one.
What a shocking surprise. A cheap chainset is weaker and less durable then the more expensive versions.
@@bencottam7798 I also ride Claris so not exactly expensive
At 52, things have changed a lot.
I used shimano deore xt when i
Started riding mountain bikes.
Moved over to xtr, then got a paul
Rear mech, which i still ride on today.
That rear mech was 250 pounds, 20
Years ago. Syncros bars, and seat post.
All of which no longer exist. X lite had some
Cool trick bolts a bits in anadized titanium.
Those were the days. Nice video hanbini. 👍
I believe that in the case of the cranks you will be able to install aftermarket cranks with the appropriate chain. Shimano is specifying an 11 speed chain for all CUES groups. So any thin-thick chainring will have be able to work. I imagine we will start to see some different cranksets installed on some of the mid-range & up models.
Very nice explanation. Thanks from a guy living in Marseille.
Looking at Shimano's web page (US) about CUES the spec d BB is a BB-MT801. I think the bit you're looking at is a website typo.
The holes in the chainring are for mounting a chain guard. The website also mentions "PCD" which is Shimanospeak for BCD of 110. Which is the same weird off set 4 arm spider they use for a lot of their mountain cranks (and they have blind bolts that go in from the ND side. So I don't think it's riveted.
I think your analysis that this is a group set designed with electric bikes in mind is right. This is the biggest market at the moment. The gravel market that is combining different groupsets to have a certain outcome is not really a big market and they will still have options coming from china or 'boutique' brands like white industries and the like. The square taper combined with the riveted chainrings shows to me it's made for the 'consumer' market who buys a bike and rides the same sprockets and BB until they are completely toast and at that point they don't care about changing the whole set. I have the people in mind who ride with a rusty noisy chain (you know who they are).
The square taper is probably also for easy chain alignment with different gearing systems. Like hub gearing systems and the like. Easy to alight it with square taper.
The U4010 crankset uses the hollowtech bottom bracket 7:00
The cup and cone bearings basicly never wear out, if you adjust pre-tension and grease them properly. Both not possible on common modern cartridge bearing hubs. Their position, quite narrow to the dropouts and the freewheel sitting on the hub body and not the axle, are two aspects, that improve reliability as well.
I've always been a Shimano boy, because of their easy peasy hubs.
You mean wide/near to the dropouts?
Cup and cone is great in the outback/3rd world countries, but I've lost hours knocking out cups from hubs and finding suitably spaced cones to suit the new bearing spacing and wheel seals
These days a ten pack of bearings is $15-20, 10 minutes to chuck some new bearings in is the dream
Neglect a Shimano cup and cone and it will keep going for years (even cheap Quando and Joytech brands), whereas a cartridge bearing will completely seize once the seals fail in my experience. That's why my commuter bike which has to cope with rain and Winter road salt has Deore cup and cone hubs.
I've gone back to cup and cone on my long distance bike, I got fed up with replacing cartridge bearings, and before a big event having to decide to keep the bearings that had done a few 000km or change just in case. I know with cup and cone an annual service is probably excessive, and the rest of the year I'll not need to think about it.
Bike wrench here, yes they last forever IF properly adjusted and greased, but how many people actually take care of their stuff? I've had to have so many uncomfortable phone calls with people because the most financially logical way to fix shredded bearing races is usually a whole new wheel. I think for the market it's aimed at, sealed bearings make a lot more sense. I doubt the rest of their lineup of hubs will abandon cup and cone anytime soon.
6:47 Could perhaps be mounting points for a plastic chain guard. Just guessing.
Just ordered a cues crankset (chainset) for my gravel bike. It arrived as a 2 piece hollowtech style crankset with an adjuster barrel on the non-drive side to adjust the lateral play. Just thought I would share since it looks like they have cranksets designed for hollowtech bottom brackets.
We should see this on almost all new bikes this summer.
I'm waiting to see how this pans out. I think it was designed for e bikes and everything else is a bolt on.
@@Hambini The Shimano reps yesterday were chatting about how it’s going to be OEM on almost every new bike. It kind of locks you into an upgrade path. Interesting.
@@Mapdec It simplifies OEM's supply chain-- maybe a lesson from being burned from the covid supply chain failures. If most things are interchangeable, you don't care too much if you have to swap in a different part just to get something out the door. Simpler supply chain also help increase profit margins through economy of scale-- something which is pretty important in this economy.
Unfortunately it sounds like the pull ratio for cues is different than existing Shimano MTB 9-10-11 speed components. So you cannot directly mix MTB components pre-cues with cues.
Cues Di2 has been around for ~6 months now. A major motivation was as you said - the motor’s torque would shred the small cassette cogs. This was really compounded as many riders wouldn’t shift down and would just rip away at full tilt.
What a great time to be alive. Regular bike components being ruined (i.e. made heavier) because of the specific needs of e-bike users. The next step would be using motorcycle chains and sprockets on road bikes because some company can't be arsed to design and manufacture specific components for specific needs.
Given how much traction the e-bike market has got lately, what they should have done is to develop e-bike specific groupsets, not to screw with everybody who wants a cheap, simple and lightweight groupset on their beer and burger powered bike.
@@11robotics it’s a really complex situation and from a purely business view, I get why Shimano is making the jump.
There’s been a lot of discontent from manufacturers over groupset combinations they can buy. Meanwhile, companies like Microshift are making inroads into the mid-market segment.
And looking at if from the consumer end, I’m honestly curious as to how well it actually shifts under load. I know in some bike shops, poor shifting is often the fault of poor technique
@@eva-kr8pf oh I totally get their perspective. They are clearly reducing their development, distribution, storage and technical support costs with this move - ironically, with a very likely increase of the cost for the end user. But as an end user of bike components, what I want is either new products that better fit my needs for a similar or marginally higher cost than the previous ones, or cheaper solutions that fit my needs just as well. CUES components are neither, as they are heavier, more agricultural, more expensive and arguably more limited in terms of choice if they also decide to fully ditch rim braking on their road versions as well, their only real upside being the full cable pull ratio compatibility across the range. The only users who may arguably gain something from this move are e-bike users and perhaps those who want a rugged, more robust and more maintenance free bike (commuters, tourers, etc.).
@@11roboticsThey’re still making older groupsets though right?
@@MarioGoatse older as in what, 10 speed Dura-Ace groupsets identical to those manufactured over 10 years ago? Not at all. Even the "we are going to keep manufacturing them anyway" 11-speed R7000 and R8000 mechanical rim brake groupsets will eventually be discontinued.
Hi Mr Hambini. I have recently replaced the ball bearings( small ones) in a rear Shimano GRX wheel( wheel no 2). This was after the ball bearings failed in the hub after about 1000km. I purchased this second wheel after the ball bearings failed in in the first GRX wheel I purchased. I thought the first failure was due to user error installing the wheel . The cone appeared cracked in the first wheel and 3 or 4 balls were destroyed after only 300km. So I purchased the second wheel and very carefully installed the wheel making sure the wheel spun freely after tightening the axle nuts(surly midnight special ) The bearings went aprox 1000km before the horrible noise in hub started again. Pulled it apart and one ball was aprox half a ball, several others were damaged on inspection through magnified lens. So I purchased some higher spec balls (more round) and replaced using marine grease. Have you seen or heard of a batch of faulty ball bearings used by shimano?
I haven't heard of this but when I have bought Shimano wheels or hubs the first thing I do is replace the grease with marine grade grease (as much as possible) and adjust the hub play so that it spins nicely as it's too tight from the factory. I replace grease every 1000km and bearings every 2000km (just in case). I haven't worn out my dura ace hubs I bought in 2008!
@@richardggeorge Yes I replaced the grease with marine grade on second wheel before install . Made sure wheel spun freely after install ,also loosening cones as I think axle compresses on install torque. Still the bearings lasted 1000km! I suspect cheap faulty balls from factory . Now have enough balls for several maintenance repacks.
@@2321brendan maybe they are cutting costs or even some dodgy quality control going on. I use stainless balls from eBay of questionable quality but they appear to be smooth to touch and eyeballing them
agreed, definitely an e-bike focused move. landfills are about to be awash in ebikes (both the cheap ones and not so cheap ones)... hopefully this will help with that
"landfills are about to be awash in ebikes" Why do you think so?
@@rangersmith4652 Maybe i'm wrong. I'm in the United States. All the cheap $700-$1200 ebikes, and there are *lots* of them, are going straight to the landfill, at the first $3-500 service bill (if that service bill is even written, little to no consumer support from many online retailers, we offer brakeset upgrades, but it's just too expensive for the people who bought these disposable bikes). The more expensive bikes are significantly better, but even then, more and more customers with 5-10k miles or so on their bosch mid-drive units, balking at the need for bearing rebuilds (or motor replacments, as the parts and labor for a bearing rebuild is roughly 50% of the cost of a new motor). Insistence that these should be warranty replacements. Then you have all the normal consumables needing to be replaced, the paint has faded and the scratches are showing. Ultimately e-bikes need to be lifted/carried, at least for short distances. I just don't see it working out. They're just not durable enough to justify the cost, except for older wealthier leisure riders. So to the landfill they'll go. Of course... this is a problem for lots of semi-durable goods, certainly including regular bikes. I think Shimano's attempts to build more durable parts for the needs of the e-bike, non-performance rider will help, and should be commended.
@@00100Matt You could be right; I was just curious about your statement. I'm also in the US. Your analysis links well to the research I did before purchasing my e-bike, a Ride1Up LMT'D, which retails for a tick under 2-grand. Not high-end, but not Amazon junk either. Ride1Up has a pretty good reputation for service, but I have not needed to test that. I've ridden it very little because shortly after I got it, to get back into riding after nearly a decade of almost no riding, I discovered I could still ride a conventional bike without real issues. As little as I use it, it will either last forever or become unusable from lethargy in a couple of years. I should probably try to sell it.
I can see what you mean about inexpensive e-bikes not being worth fixing. I wonder how many of them will wind being converted to regular pedal bikes -- might be an industry there for some young entrepreneur.
@@rangersmith4652 Cheap ebikes are built in such volume but with non-standard parts that the factory will basically make it once and then kill the line. This means when they break the cost to repair is massive because there is few parts for them....and the spares that exist are listed and stupid high prices. Sorta like cheap smart phones...but they at least last a few years and have no serviceable pats typically.
@@trepidati0n533 It's like that with whatever has a surge in demand. Temporary retooling of a flexible Chinese assembly line, cheapest parts possible, fancy paint. Flood a mass distribution system with pricing that undercuts everyone else. Make a tidy profit and move on.
I think the 9-10-11 speed compatibility is definitely a good thing, but I do hate that you won't be able to service the crankset or bottom bracket. I really hope they won't extend that throwaway culture to the road CUES groupo. I'd actually prefer they didn't touch the affordable road groupsets at all, well maybe apart from bumping Tiagra shifters to 11-speed now that Shimano seem to be killing off mechanical 105.
11 is less reliable, that would be wrong.
11/12 are electric territory
When the crappy crank fails just replace it with a crankset from another series, like Alivio/ Deore for the integrated axle, modern BB and replaceable rings .
Just don't buy the CUES cranksets, I won't. The CUES chain is based on an 11 speed chain width and you can use ANY non Shimano 11s crankset (or a nicer Shimano 11s crankset).
@@tonycaluda1868 This replaces alivio. deore is mountains specific 12s (narrow chain) and not *technically* compatible. generally you would just go up the chain to a higher end cues (they go up to XT quality level) - or buy a non shimano crank and ring.
Tiagra is dead as well, replaced by upcoming drop bar cues parts.
I was surprised to hear that the balls are harder than the cups and cones...
I would have thought that the balls, which are easily replaced, would be sacrificial to the bearing surfaces - particularly the cups that are part of the hub.
I am currently on 2 x 8 Tourney - Altus combination on my shopping bike, and I wish it was simpler to get spares.
Juat guesswork here, but perhaps pitted balls would stop spinning between the races and the wear would proceed even faster.
Thank you Hambini for diving into the details only a nobhead would care to know.
Shimano actually has made at least one "cartridge" bearing hub in the past few years, the FH-MT401. I laced one up for a friend about 2 years ago, and we were surprised by the bearings! Probably gives a good idea of how the CUES hubs will be designed.
what a weird model..... 135mm QR, but Micro-Spline - didn't know they were making that combination.... but wait, 480 grams without skewer - what? Oh Shimano....
I have the 410 version and it’s extremely easy to strip down and set up
@@cthulpiss It's purpose was to have a non series hub for bike makers that didn't want to pay for SLX/XT etc (or deal with the sylence mechanism which is iffy). It is also super cheap in comparison at about $20 (retail store prices vary as it was never meant to be a retail store part).
Keeps cost down for the cheaper end of the market.
Now, that’s an intro!! 🔥🔥🔥💪🏻💪🏻💪🏻
This is the first reference I've seen on moving the drive-side bearings outward.
He didn't say that. The cup and cone bearings were outboard. The new cartridge bearing will be on each end of the hub and the freehub will have 2 bearings just like every other hub made.
Mark is correct, they are moving towards a more commonly adopted bearing setup. The other point I would make is the use of 6000 series bearings has a more radial bias over angular contact cup and cone, it suggests they have done it for the increased weight and torque of e bikes
I've got some Dura Ace wheels from the 90s. 9 or 10 speed. And they've got the outboard bearing on the rear wheel.
I hope the pull ratio and the shift feel of CUES is more like 10 speed Shimano, rather than 12 Shimano mtb. I also really hope they don't kill off Claris, Sora, and Tiagra. They're good, dependable groupsets that just need good housing/cables, a hydro brake option, or a stronger rim brake caliper.
no dropbar cues, so they won't kill road groups you mentioned
They will eventually come out dropbar
@@jakubwysocki736 ........yet
@@jakubwysocki736 they already have said that claris, sora, and tiagra are going - within the next 7 years - and drop bard stuff is coming to Cues
Claris, Sora, Tiagra will 100% be killed off once they have drop bar CUES. One of the motivation for CUES to reduce SKUs and maximize interoperability. They have no incentive to improve the Claris/Sora/Tiagra lineup. CUES is their answer for hyrdo brake Claris/Sora/Tiagra. CUES is their answer to 9 speed claris, 10 speed sora, 11 speed tiagra.
remember the old tech with a freewheel . because the bearing is near to the center of the hub it left lots of axle sticking out past the bearing which may have worked with 5 speed (cogs). with 7 speed it was common to break the axle. so shimano came out with the freehub body which was the standard until the 10 tooth cog came along. so now with this new tech called CUES they moved the bearing back towards the center of the hub. I was wondering if the axle would break and maybe not because the freehub may offer some support. any thoughts and thanks
So does this mean that if one will use CUES they can only mix and match within CUES ecosystem and not be able to use any aftermarket drivetrain components?
It's clearly their answer to Microshift's Advent and Advent X groupos.
I should get you on the SHIMANO SERVICE CENTER Tech Lab seminars subscription list!!!
I know you've gone into alternative frames and framesets made by OEM's, but are there any quality components and groupsets that may be flying under the radar?
One criticism I've seen with the pull ratio is that it doesn't match ANY other Shimano groupset, so no using CUES components to replace worn/broken parts on older 9/10/11 speed MTB groupsets. Also interesting that this will also basically overlap with the Deore 10 and 11 speed drivetrains, which makes me wonder if bikes that are currently shipping with Deore 10s or 11s may be downgrading to CUES soon to save a buck.
cartridge I know as in the cage, the one you really mean I often call sealed bearings
Linkglide cassettes were introduced last year when Shimano announced automatic shifting Di2 for ebikes. So they're 100% prompted by the popularity of ebikes.
In the Dura ACE 7800 Hub there where already a Bearing-Arrangement similar to this new Hub!
I adore the new Sram transmission, but we need this kind of development that Shimano makes more.
Cups and cones should have been easy to replace but oldschool obsolescence
The new hub looks interesting
The description of pull ratio is wrong. It doesn’t mean the gaps between cogs is the same.
You can use a 9 speed shifter on 11 speed cassette and just loose 2 gears. Gaps are the same.
@@markxkovacicthat is different. You can have maintain pull ratio while still having different cog spacing
Brian is right. Pull ratio is the ratio between shifter pull and deraillier movement. E.g. Tiagra 4700 and 105 got the same cable pull RATIO, but the pull is different, so you have to match your cassette to the shifter. But the derailier is the same (and officially the chain)
6.40 - I bet those dimple are stop the chain falling into and getting jammed between the big chainring and a chain guard riveted to it.
Thanks for the great video.
Regarding the square taper bottom brackets. I was of the impression that square tapered bottom brackets are common in the commuter/budget market which i feel this is kind of what this groupset is targeted at?
Any mentions on backwards compatibility with 105/Tiagra/Sora? Now that 105 has gone 12s, disc only, and electronic, what am i supposed to do if one of the parts in my R7000 fail?
buy a new bike
It's its own thing. From the tests I've seen the cable pull for link glide is 3.5mm or the same as sram 11s x actuation. Derailleur Ratio is its own thing too 1.25 vs 1.4 for Shimano 11s road.
That stuff will still be available for years to come.
You can still get replacements for properly ancient 5 speeds. You'll be fine.
If they make mtb cassettes compatible with road shifters, that will go a long way to the beginner/aging road and gravel segment of the market
Yeah, if a person isn’t trying to climb insane hills, or bomb descents at 45mph, 1x with a wide-range cassette is the way to go, even on a “road” bike.
I've got a deore crankset with a narrow wide alloy chainring off aliexpress and it's worked fine for 10 and 11 spd. I think microshift also have their pull ratios the same from their 9 to 11 shifters.
Two things, the wheels collapse without the freehub doesn’t show off the inherent strength of the design. Zipp hubs are prone to bent axles like all hubs with the non integrated freehub design. Shimano and to some extent, mavic are my go to for folks that bend axles. The other thing is that the chain is indeed contacting a wider tooth. While some are thinned out like that,most sit down a bit more than you suggested.
I know better but I always have my damn volume up for some reason when I open these videos lol 🤣
1:00 no mention of XTR as they've pretty much dropped that and the release of CUES is the race to the bottom. Trying to compete on the lowest level given their engineers have gone to sleep.
I say old bean; CUES doesn't seem to mean Cambridge University Engineering Society, what what? Confused. Are oinks involved somewhat and it means something more plebian?
Can't figure out if the cues 9 speed chain & cassette will be comparability with usal alivip / deorr 9 speed rear mech and shifter... Not sure of spacing of cues vs regular
I remember back in the day.. 👴🏻 we would clean the grease out of hubs, pack them with fresh balls and polishing compound, reassemble and spin the axles on a drill for 5-10 min to polish the races. Then pull apart, clean and reassemble with fresh balls and Philwood grease 👌🏻
The square taper BB is actually pretty dope, I really like how easy it is to work on and how cheap the parts are. Is the whole cues system gonna be cheap and easy to build with? Probably not, but that’s just the industry these days. They’re definitely trying to hunt down microshift advent/adventX with this stuff
Even the modern Alivio has hollowtech cranks. Square taper is a step backwards, hollowtech is easier to work on where i don't need a crank puller.
Most cues cranks are hollowtech, but they'll have square taper cranks and BBs as an option.
@@sepg5084
I believe the thoughts of having square tapered spindle is:
1. Most of those who bought these categories may not own crank pulley tools and won’t be bothered
2. They will somehow send the bikes to LBS, as those cranks are usually super tight at factory (based on my personal experience with mine;(
3. This category is market-driven by their targeted market; existing square tapered-spec’d group of bikes and ebikes markets.
Its only the U4000 that fit square taper. U4010 and up are hollowtech
As an owner of Acolyte, Advent 9 & X setups, I've yet to notice another local trail rider using them. Hambini is probably correct guessing Shimano is prepping for the growth of generic Chinese/Alibaba drivetrain parts. You know the type that are branded as whatever the seller's name is...JOYFUNPANDAHAPPY crankset
Thanks for another information ☺️
Also, there are no plans to make crank lengths other than 170 or 175. Big oversight.
So the question is, can i use the new Linkglide 9/10/11 chain on my old hyperglide cassetts?
Hambini long time no see
In my opinion it's all about the costs. Shimano has'nt to produce different groupsets. All fits together and is interchagable, like you mentioned.
So in terms of chinese groupsets it should be more cost-comptitive
Long Live Shimano!!!
I know I'm a bit late,
but,
would a Sram "brifter" with a 1:1 pull ratio operate a Cues rear derailler on a regular Shimano/Sram (ie lighter) cassette?
Thinking about mullett gearing with rim brakes?
I’m excited. I have gravel-ish bike, currently fitted with flat bars and MTB/XT parts (3x9). Was hoping the GRX would have been compatible, but no, shimano went the roadie route and there is no alternative that would allow occasionally changing between flat and drop bars and to have hydraulic brakes. But this looks like a winner, with hydraulic option, all the gearing and ability to change bar type. Have to see how it goes but would be great if I would be able to keep the XT brakes and buy the 2x11 gears, derailleurs and road levers. If (when) it’s heavier I can use that money on wheels.
@@Sidowse Only if, but I have hydraulic brakes. Only if there was 3x9 road shifters /w hydraulic brakes I’d be happy, but I have not seen such things.
Is there any technical reason (so not marketing) why these groupsets should not be fittet to e.g. an enduro bike?
I don't care about weight, but costs and durability...
So is there a chance SLX might get some influence?
Will a 9s cassette need a big spacer if the cog spacing is the same as 11s?
ebikes motors (bosch, brose, shimano EP a bit less) produce up to 600-700W for few minutes...
So, a 9-speed CUES cassette will have the same sprocket spacing as an 11-speed CUES cassette, but will sit on the hub with a substantial spacer under the biggest sprocket? Have I understood that right?
Yes
I always wondered how they would phase out their crappy cup and cone hubs...
The 26 and 28 bearings each seem to have a big and small element - surely that is mis-labelled. The thin ones are entirely unsuited to bike use, and will have a very short service life - every maker has learned that over the years. The 9-10-11 compatibility is good, but I wonder how it relates to products that are already in the field, since before y2k ?
Thanks. Great video.
I just upgraded from 9speed Sora to some Ultegra spares I've accumulated on an old CX bike, didn't do it in the past because 9 speed hub on the wheels, turns out it was a 9/10 speed hub, and a cassette that's 11 speed being compatible with a 10 speed hub meant, 9 speed hub 11speed cassette all good.
wonder if this will let them reintroduce the 9 or 10 or 11 speed hub and make them non compatible with others, always the pessimist.
I'm not sure how worried Shimano really is about the chinese groupsets, they'll always have a major share in the market from brand recognition alone. The mid/low end road groupsets were overdue for a major overhaul and repositioning either way, so I assume that is what they are going to do with (rumoured) future dropbar versions of CUES.
the biggest letdown for this new groupset is that despite its target demographic being more on the frugal-consumer spectrum, they have decided to make the legacy
There's one aspect of Shimano's introduction of the CUES groupset that Hambini didn't touch on: how Chinese commodification of 7,8,9 spd drivetrain components is squeezing Shimano. I'm still running high quality 8 and 9 spd HG (Ultregra and DA) drivetrains on several of my bikes but have been using Chinese cassettes, chainrings and chains for years. I suspect Shimano's strategic withdrawal from that market segment is an acknowledgement that profit margins favour Chinese manufacturers.
Well done Shimano l only see improvements .
The new hubs are fantastic with the ability to swap between thru axles and quick release skewers on the same hub body using bushes .
So the sealed bearings are not the only improvement .
The new 1:1 pull ratio for compatability between nearly all CUES groupsets is a great improvement . And the sturdy rear cassette for longevity and to handle the increased torque of E-bikes is great . The end of the triple front chainring was a long time coming .
Hope they update the XT and XTR DI2 to twelve speed soon .
Shimano leaps ahead .
😎👍
You can adapt a lot of thru axle hubs to qr with adapters.
I think Shimano is really after MicroShift more than anything else with a lot of this. MicroShift with their Acolyte, Advent and Advent X drivetrains have been eating Shimano's lunch at the lower end of the spectrum. MicroShift has much more advanced drivetrains for a very low price point, and a lot of bike manufacturers are specing them instead of Shimano. Also, it bears mentioning, there will be a hollowtech bottom Bracket.
Crossover to Road/Gravel = Trekking ?
Linkglide. That is the future. If you are looking for longevity. Cues linkglide is the key. Lasts longer than deore by hundreds of miles.
Am torn on Tiagra being enveloped into this CUES steamroller. It was closer to *The Groupset of the People* than 105 and I always viewed it's next evolution as being a lightly modified R7000 with relabelling.
SHIM already has the tooling and known production costs. BOOM! entry level 'racing' groupset is sorted for a decade+ without the need for electricity nor the paywall into Di2 for roughly 1/2 the price. [srsly, at what point below CatA does Di2 matter?]
11spd HG chains are compatible with the LG rings... this'll be the diff' twixt leccy powertrains and non ones?
The excess material thickness left on cogs seems rather excessive. Like a 'first time around' over engineering. Can see it thinning down.
Did I read somewhere that crankset rings are riveted on or will that just be for the SQ drive models type thing?
I can't see benefit in not being able to swap rings around if one wants "for long trekking trips", especially if CUES is to drown out the Chinese rivals.
CUES s e e m s like the groupset that's been asked for for ages, but I guess we'll see how fixable EVERYTHING is within it once hands can be gotten on it, or if just more overhyped, mid way reaching, business simplification disguised as benefit.
Will this work with older 9-10 speed shifter's like Deore, XT, Zee, Saint?
No, totally different pull ratio.
I thought I read somewhere that Shimano expect these chains, cassettes, to last about three times longer than hyperglide? If so I think that's excellent... I'd happily take a little extra cassette weight for that. Could be very good for long distance tourers (who don't want to shell out for, say, a Rohloff Hub system bike). I hope they bring out downtube/bar end shifters for it. Surely those will be easy to manufacture. So that we have more options to retrofit this onto older frames...(plus some of us tourers just like using them...).
Streamlining their production process means less tooling to develop and less cost. I hope it translates to the price as well but im not optimistic.
I dont like the riveted chainrings. Thats a huge negative for me.
from cost perspective, yes it's a significant saving calling those alivio, acera, tourney, stx, lx and what not, as CUES, period.
read somewhere that shimano predicted 2023 revenue might come down a quarter? right time for savings.
Love the thought of some ol' granny shredding teeth on her chipped e&bike 😂
Being a roadie for years I tried to build an MTB for myself... Stupidly I ended up buying a wheelset with a Microspline Freehub - while wanted to go 11s (because all of the bikes of my family are 11s and therefore you need the same spares for all)... Since there never has been an 11s Microspline cassette (even tough announced and so often asked for) I highly doubt that Shimano will do anything to enable people to actually use their gear for as long as possible... The "planned obsolence" part of needing to find the right used parts to keep your 7700-Groupset running, made them good business for years...
Other companies will bring out CUES chainrings and shifter ratio adapters,.drill out the rivets and fit new chainrings. If you have a mid drive motor such as BBS02 then hub gears is really the answer (Aldine, Rohloff). Shimano should brought out a Gates belt drive system and make the Alfine hub thru axle compatible
It will generate a whole new set of hacks, doubtless.
Making Alfine thru-axle compatible would require a complete redesign of all the internals. It will happen one day, I would imagine - but it's a big move to make and will be a costly change to implement.
What’s the Marseille link HamB??? My best knowledge is you’re South Yorks Sheff way. Cheers. Ears.
It's the french blood that courses through my veins. Made in Marseille no less. It could have been Manchester, I am not very good at geography.
@@Hambini lol. From south Manchester with love.
Yeah, this officially marks the end of an era. The era marked by the race for the lightest road or MTB groupset that gets the job done. Once they also announce the road-oriented version of CUES, I'm pretty sure all their new groupsets will be:
- heavier than their older counterparts with the same (or the closest available) gearing
- more expensive than their older counterparts with the same (or the closest available) gearing
- obviously disc brake only
- to various degrees, incompatible with any of the previous groupsets (one could only hope the cog pitch and chain widths of the new 11 speed cassettes and chains will be identical to the old ones, but I will totally not be shocked if they aren't)
This makes for a great challenge though: finding out how many years can go by using only NOS, second-hand and hoarded components to keep my current bikes going without using any of the sh1temano's latest components. No road bike of mine will have disc brakes, electronic groupsets, or heavier components than those it already has.
Let the shopping begin.
Does it mean i can use a u4000 on a 11 speed drivetrain?
What I don't like, is if they're retiring all those other groupset levels, it's gonna get more expensive to service/upgrade existing bikes. If you have old 9 or 10 speed, you'll have to go microshift, or in some cases shell out for a new drivetrain & rear wheel... plus the forgiving tolerances of 9 speed have their appeal among the "bent my hanger again" crowd.
Wonder how much the chains will cost?
Square taper is not “very unusual”. The overwhelming majority of bikes use it.
new wheels ROASTER next please... princeton, HED, zipp
Maybe genius that when you replace the free-hub body you get all new driveside bearings at same time?