Did I Get Cloned???
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ธ.ค. 2020
- As more and more guitar pedals are hitting the market, we're seeing a rise in "clone" pedals. Whether you're scrolling through Reverb or visiting your local guitar shop, you would be hard pressed to find a completely original guitar pedal, especially in the analog overdrive realm.
Recently, I stumbled upon a clone pedal that looked familiar: the NUX Steel Singer, an overdrive pedal that appears to be imitating the Vertex Steel String Clean Drive. Today, I'm doing an A/B comparison of my Steel String pedal and the NUX Steel Singer, seeing how the clone stacks up against the original.
What do you think of the Vertex Steel String vs. the NUX Steel Singer? Do they sound different?
Purchase a Steel String MKII:
www.vertexeffects.com/steel-s...
Purchase a Steel String Supreme:
www.vertexeffects.com/steel-s...
Purchase a Nux Steel Singer:
amzn.to/2KZF512
⬇️ DIY BUFFER INTERFACE DIAGRAMS, TEMPLATES, & MATERIALS ⬇️
Mono - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Mono w/Tuner Out - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Mono w/Splitter - www.vertexeffects.com/diy-buf...
Mono w/Audition Loop - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
4 Cable Method (FX Loop) - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Wet/Dry - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Stereo - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer-...
Buy VERTEX Pedalboards HERE:
reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
Buy VERTEX Cables HERE:
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Buy VERTEX Pedals HERE:
vertexeffects.com/store
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PRIVATE: www.therigdr.com/products/pri...
GROUP: www.therigdr.com/collections/...
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Apple: apple.co/36dSQzK
Spotify: spoti.fi/2WGLku8
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Vertex DIY - vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer
Mesa Boogie High-Wire (dual buffer) - bit.ly/2lZwS0s
Empress Stereo Buffer - amzn.to/33lyvHk
Vertex Boost - amzn.to/3hVwvN2
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//pedalboard patch cables//
VERTEX Patch Cables - reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
//instrument cables//
VERTEX Instrument Cables - reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
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2.1mm DC Power Plugs (right angle) - bit.ly/2pGqXzI
2.1mm DC Power Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/36wd1sA
Bulk Power Cables (pre made) - amzn.to/3ev1q0t
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MIDI Plugs (right angle) - bit.ly/2oKHDFG
MIDI Plugs (straight) - bit.ly/32fNNLF
MIDI Cable (bulk) - amzn.to/2tPAHWQ
//pedalboards, lifts, risers, bridges//
Pedalboard Surfaces - reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
Pedal Risers/Lifts/Bridges - reverb.com/shop/the-rig-docto...
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3M Dual Lock SJ3550 (for pedal) - amzn.to/2TP1rlu
3M Dual Lock SJ3551 (for base) - amzn.to/2I8a7SG
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Zip Ties - amzn.to/2HP1Ulv
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👇 CLICK BELOW FOR ALL DIY DIAGRAMS 👇
DIY Power Cables: vertexeffects.com/diy-power-c...
DIY Interface: vertexeffects.com/diy-interface
DIY Buffers: vertexeffects.com/diy-buffer
CONTRIBUTORS:
Hunter Harrison - Mixing, Audio Editing
Mason Mejia - Co-Producing, Editing
Mason Marangella - Co-Producing
Nico Sotomayor - Videographer
#VertexEffects #SteelStringSinger #GuitarPedals - เพลง
What do you think? Does the Nux Steel Singer sound the same as the Vertex Steel String? What’s your verdict on cloning? Tell us in the comments below!
Can the V1 Steel string take 18v?
@@thereallbking yes
As a bass player, I like the Steel String. For guitar time though, I like the Steel Singer
Nic sounds like crap, they copy strymon's look of effects box ,now they want to clone everything - centaur etc
Talk about how the vertex has less top end and more girth when your “apples to apples” comparison has you playing the nux using the bridge pickup but the vertex on the neck pickup on the stones style riff? C’mon...
Didn’t you “clone” a wah wah pedal?
he literally just repainted bbe wahs
came to the comments JUST for this @@USSLIBERTYREMEMBERER
I really want to like Mason, but he tends to make it very difficult from time to time.
Thanks for the feedback Del. I thought it was a fairly charitable overview of the pedal and that we really have no claim here, but I always want to improve. Thanks for watching!
@Andrew D I don't think you've watch the video if you think this was a take down or indictment of Nux. The thesis of the video is "are the two pedals the same?" The video looks at that, and at no time says the Nux pedal is bad or doesn't sound good. The opposite in fact.
Wasn’t this the guy that restamped a bbe wah to a vertex wah and sold it for 200 bucks more?
Yeah the exact
Lol yes.
The schadenfreude is giving me life
Some might find it to be a positive...I suppose it is. Imitation is the highest form of flattery, as they say.
Yup, made me laugh seeing the video title 😂
My problem with this video is that his playing style on the first 2 pedals has much more finesse and soul. He plays harder, louder, faster, and harsher on the nux. Also, he used the neck pickup on the first 2, and the bridge pickup on the clone.... The gain should have also been balanced much more. The best way to do these kinds of tests is using a looper that removes playing differences. This isnt a fair comparison
Ha-ha I hadn't spotted that, I just thought I liked the sound of the NUX better ... but then I perfer the sound of a strat brige to neck, so that all makes sense - thank you
Since the steel string is a clone of Jack Orman AMZ-FX Boost 2.5. II think this is pretty fair.
We have no claim to the muFET, we state that in the video at 15:48. However, the Vertex Steel String is no more a clone of a Jack Orman Booster is no more than it could be of 20 other pedals. Even a lazy analysis of the two pedals would tell you that. The Orman unit has ONE control - volume. The Steel String has FOUR controls - volume, gain, filter, rock/jazz. The muFET design that our Steel String is based on, it is nothing new or proprietary and we've never claimed any different. It was used by guys like Craig Anderton clear back in the early 1970's (maybe even late 60's). We voiced our Steel String pedal in accordance with the circuit archetype that most closely resembled the Dumble SSS when doing in person comparisons between the Dumble amp and our pedal through a Fender Hot Rod DeVille as our reference, and tweaked from there. The muFET circuit nailed the tone and feel, and that's what we went with for the design of the Steel String series of pedals. Our circuit isn't the same as Craig Anderton's muFET designs, nor is it of Orman's (who came after Anderton), but certainly has many things in common to the same degree as any other analog overdrive or boost in the marketplace. Our use of muFETs is about as common as what you'd see in pedal derivatives from the App Notes section from National Semiconductors (the genesis for many pedals we know and love today).
@@jjschulz3472 no we asked the question "Did We Get Cloned?" The answer through the video is, no - the look almost the same, but sound quite different.
Dude, I've got a nyle and I enjoy it. But maybe the guy notorious for passing off other peoples designs as his own should just let sleeping dogs lay when it comes to certain topics. You know you are just gonna get hate and push back. My two cents anyways.
It's easy bud people get what they can afford its just the way it is .we all know the people would download everything as for my self I like to have the cd case and the art work .but I still try and see if wall mart has it lol
Dude, just rebrand'em and sell'em at a 100% markup like you used to do.
I wonder if Howard Dumble has any sympathy for your loss
As I say clearly here, we have no claim to the look, that's all from Dumble and it's fair game for Nux.
Howard is free to make a pedal version of his amplifiers should he ever choose. Other than that, people should be pleased to have companies including Vertex that are helping those achieve near dumble sound that can't afford the ridiculous price of a dumble amplifier.
@@VertexEffectsInc fwiw I really appreciated your transparency here. Pretty ballsy to post a video like this and it really speaks to your confidence in the quality of your product. I’ll be honest and say that I’ll probably be picking up the nux (reluctantly) but only because I’m poor. Lol. But it’s content like this that’ll make me buy the SSS when I can afford it. I’ve really been enjoying all of your videos. Thank you!
But... isn't the Steel String just a clone of the Jack Orman Booster 2.5???
I'm confused!
No more than it could be of 20 other pedals. Even a pretty lazy overview of the two pedals would tell you that. The Orman unit has one control - volume. The Steel String has 4 controls - volume, gain, filter, rock/jazz. The muFET design that our Steel String is based on, it is nothing new or proprietary and we've never claimed any different. It was used by guys like Craig Anderton clear back in the early 1970's (maybe even late 60's). We voiced our Steel String pedal in accordance with the circuit archetype that most closely resembled the Dumble SSS when doing in person comparisons between the Dumble amp and our pedal through a Fender Hot Rod DeVille as our reference, and tweaked from there. The muFET circuit nailed the tone and feel, and that's what we went with for the design. Our circuit isn't the same as Craig Anderton's muFET designs, nor is it of Orman's (who came after Anderton) but certainly has many things in common to the same degree as any other analog overdrive or boost in the marketplace. Our use of muFETs is about as common as what you'd see in pedal derivatives of the App Notes section from National Semiconductors (the genesis for many pedals we know and love today).
@@VertexEffectsInc it was good to explain that
The short answer is NO, NuX did not clone Vertex. The NuX Steel Stringer sounds different from the Vertex Steel String because it's based on an entirely different circuit. The NuX is a clone of a Free The Tone String Slinger circuit. The Vertex Steel String is based on a Jack Orman boost circuit. The Vertex and NuX look similar on the outside but have completely different circuits inside. Apples vs Oranges.
Nowhere in the video is that disputed. We say we don't know what it is, we conclude it's just not the same as pedal, the Steel String. It's clear that no matter what it is (Free the Tone or otherwise), the Nux pedal was hoping to draw comparisons between our device and attract a similar customer that may not be willing to spend $200. I appreciate that fact, as say so in the video - a $200 won't be for everyone. I do think however that a customer looking at the two pedals would assume a sonic relationship based on the name, the controls being the same names, and the name itself being a few letters off and stating "Clean Drive" on the pedal. There's nothing on the pedal that would tell you that it had any relationship to Free the Tone, nor was that advertised until after this video released for anything that I could find. Seeing these two pedals side by side would be like seeing a box of Cornflakes and generic box of Cornflakes on a grocery isle. Let's call the generic box "Cornfakes". The customer is going to presume from the look and the name that these two cereals are essentially the same product. Just as when Nux styles a pedal this way, of all the possible ways to invoke the Dumble look, with all of the similarities to our Steel String pedal, I think the customer will presume they're the same product and not just some other Dumble pedal. Secondly, muFET follower (or mu follower) is a circuit topology (totem pole configuration) not a device. The first published circuits using JFETs was an application note by National Semiconductor in the early 1970s, but had previously been used in transistor circuits in the 1960's. It is a variation of vacuum tube configurations like SRPP from 1940's, and later variations like SEPP and many other variations. Anyone claiming the Steel String circuit is the same as Orman’s is sadly mistaken, let alone totally wrong since Orman did not invent a new circuit but used established circuits as we all do in electronics design. Where our Steel String circuit topology resembles Orman’s is the order of u-follower gain stage to gain control to u-follower gain stage to tone circuit to volume, but that is where it ends. The key differences to Orman’s are the gain stages have higher static current, different biasing values and capacitor values. The tone control has different values so different turn over points (affects different frequencies). So from a topology standpoint, one can make a case for a similarity with the Orman circuit, but from an electronic standpoint, all the values are COMPLETELY different and as a result would sound VERY different and does if you were to compare them.
@@VertexEffectsInc Its still click bait - with the headline and the cover photo what will stick with people is: They cloned you. The fact that you quickly realize this not being true is just clear when looking in the video. To me - not yet a customer of you... this doesn't rub well... I think I would think twice in buying.
100%
@@aptfx especially after what happened with Mason cloning other peoples pedals and having that deal blow up on him when people realized he was cloning pedals, not changing anything, and slapping his name on it like 10 years ago or whenever it was. And that, may not be exactly what, happened. I'm recalling from memory so I could Be wrong on details. The overall gist was he was cloning well-known pedals and not Changing anything at all, IIRC. Then slapping his name on the pedal and selling it commercially when all he did was build someone else's pedal and rename. It.
It'd be like me building a 1:1 replica of a Fuzz Face, throwing it in a std enclosure, calling it the Fuzz Factory, and selling it is my own design. That's not how it works. Funny tbing is that, people want to bring up JHS and talk about how much they don't like Josh because of this or that, yet they'll give Mason a pass on doing the crap he did. Yea, I get that he's worked to turn that, around. But he still did it and many have seem to forgotten that fact or are purposely disregarding that fact.
@@JC-11111 dude wasn't even cloning. He was straight up rebranding an existing pedal. He was taking full credit for something that he not only didn't create himself, but he didn't have the balls to do the right thing and pay to be using it under his brand. Yeah you can find duplicate clones with different brand names but at least you still know what is going on there. With clones there's generally no smoke and mirrors. Vertex is a straight up thief.
The guy that simply rebranded wahs and marketed them as something special complaining about getting cloned is hilarious to me. You make some nice pedals, anything in the future I buy from your company will be used.
They DID NOT clone you. They cloned a Free The Tone pedal and used Dumble’s trade dress, just like your pedal is a clone of someone else with Dumble’s trade dress. Has been done many times, so you weren’t even original there. Keep trying to be decent person, maybe some day you will get there.
No, you didn't get cloned.
A million pedals are in a similar sized enclosure with three knobs. The only reason the pedals look similar, is that you are both copying the Dumble colour, knobs and font. Vertex made theirs look like that to get some reflected glory from the Dumble. That's what Nux are doing too, not to get any reflected glory from Vertex
BBE Ben Wah. Ring the bell? 🙃
Mananda - What happened with the Axis Wah (a re-branding of a BBE Wah) and the cloning of the Vertex Steel String as the Nux Steel Singer are fundamentally different and incomparable. With the Axis Wah, I was purchasing the wah directly from BBE with their full knowledge, in my company name, and they were getting paid the same as if they sold it to any other dealer in their network. You can see that plainly on this invoice example from 2013 where my name and my company name are all clearly spelled out here: drive.google.com/file/d/1p2eoqWOaNO4otufq2Ux35luhYLakIpTb. By contrast, with the Nux, there is no re-branding. I don’t get paid by Nux when they sell a Steel Singer pedal. They’re cloning, at least aesthetically, the look of our Steel String. As I state in the video, that’s their right. I have no claim to the look, I have no claim to inventing the use of muFET circuits. What Nux is doing is all fair game as said in the video. The point of the video is “I Got Cloned!” Well...kinda. We got cloned, but the clone really isn’t a clone. It doesn’t sound like our pedal, but looks a lot like our pedal. The Nux Steel Singer does sound good as I said - just not particularly Dumbley to my ears, and more like a Tweed type break up. More gain, more treble, more compressed than the Vertex Steel String. Both sound good in their own right, they just don’t have any sonic overlap where I see them as being in the same ballpark.
Thank you so much for this comparison, I now know I have to get the NUX steel singer, lovely pedal
Sure do not want to see a clone of this guy walking around.
Huh?
would the same electronics in a different casing be a clone? lol the balls of this video
You beat me to it. For the uninformed, Google Axis wah Mason Marangella. The irony of this video is not lost.
What happened with the Axis Wah (a re-branding of a BBE Wah) and the cloning of the Vertex Steel String as the Nux Steel Singer are fundamentally different and incomparable. With the Axis Wah, I was purchasing the wah directly from BBE with their full knowledge, in my company name, and they were getting paid the same as if they sold it to any other dealer in their network. You can see that plainly on this invoice example from 2013 where my name and my company name are all clearly spelled out here: drive.google.com/file/d/1p2eoqWOaNO4otufq2Ux35luhYLakIpTb. By contrast, with the Nux, there is no re-branding. I don’t get paid by Nux when they sell a Steel Singer pedal. They’re cloning, at least aesthetically, the look of our Steel String. As I state in the video, that’s their right. I have no claim to the look, I have no claim to inventing the use of muFET circuits. What Nux is doing is all fair game as said in the video. The point of the video is “I Got Cloned!” Well...kinda. We got cloned, but the clone really isn’t a clone. It doesn’t sound like our pedal, but looks a lot like our pedal. The Nux Steel Singer does sound good as I said - just not particularly Dumbley to my ears, and more like a Tweed type break up. More gain, more treble, more compressed than the Vertex Steel String. Both sound good in their own right, they just don’t have any sonic overlap where I see them as being in the same ballpark.
@@VertexEffectsInc If everything was cool, then why did you have to issue an apology? Also, your Steele Stringer looks to be an awful lot like the Way Huge Overrated Special. Is that a better comparison?
@@kdrake777 I was accountable to the customers that purchased the Axis Wah, not BBE. The impropriety is in how I resold the BBE product as a Vertex product, not my business relationship with BBE. As I said in the video, we have no claim to the look, we're all copying Dumble, and even if it were my look, Steel String was at market before the Way Huge Overrated Special.
@@VertexEffectsInc I support the fact that you made a mistake, own up to it, and are moving/have moved forward. I own an ultraphonix and occasionally watch your videos (so not a troll). But as you say, "[you] have no claim to inventing the use of muFET circuits", and this video has an air of "hey f**k these guys for doing something similar to me and not paying me" to it . That kind of attitude is detrimental to pedal culture, since clones have led to some great pedals (i.e. the start of the video). I also think that given your past, that attitude is just hypocritical. I watched this video, and it gave me the same cringey feelings of OJs' "if I did it". I made my comment not to dig up the past, but instead to starkly point out that this video poorly walks the razor thin edge of you addressing the role of clones in the pedal world. As other commenters point out, since the SS is basically a clone of a Jack Orman Booster 2.5, it would have been better to see the three (JO, SS, and Nux) together, because it makes the video more honest. You made a whole video about clones, and didn't address where your own circuits come from! Thats just not cool. Myself and most players see your pedals as great sounding clones/clone-adaptations, and ignoring/not addressing that makes me angry - so of course I got angry and did a low punch. You did a whole video about a pedal failing because it "wasn't in [your] lane", I don't this video was in your lane.
"This pedal looks similar to my ripoff a preexisting product but I am too lazy to check and see if they are actually ripping off my design. I am going to accuse them of stealing my design anyways because it looks similar to the original as does mine."
Huh?
@@VertexEffectsInc I think he was pretending to be you... mockingly
Like you cloned a Maxon SD-9 and just re-cased it and called it Dynamic Distortion? Lol! Oh the irony!!!
We've never said that it wasn't based on the SD-9, there are plenty of interviews where this is said if you did just a little research on this.
@@jjschulz3472 I think we said it as recently as our Sweetwater video a few weeks ago - you can see it yourself.
Dynamic distortion and sd-9 sound totally different.... I use both love and in studio..... try em both out and you’ll hear differences
I’ll buy and use Vertex but I’ll take my ethics lectures elsewhere tbh.
@vertex effects what is actually the point in this video? They’re clearly different circuits designed for different things?
The thesis is, "they look the same, but do they actually sound the same?" We then go through the look, the sound, the build, and evaluate the similarities and differences.
So you are saying that both pedals are clones of the Jack Orman AMZ-FX Boost 2.5! ;)
So it would appear if the freestompbox schematic is correct.. A few minor component tweaks to up the gain, as suggested anyway by Jack way back 20 years ago and a standard BMT replacing the single tone control. Ain't nothing new under the sun these days
Lol beat me to it.
The Vertex Steel String is no more a clone of a Jack Orman Booster is no more than it could be of 20 other pedals. Even a lazy analysis of the two pedals would tell you that. The Orman unit has ONE control - volume. The Steel String has FOUR controls - volume, gain, filter, rock/jazz. The muFET design that our Steel String is based on, it is nothing new or proprietary and we've never claimed any different. It was used by guys like Craig Anderton clear back in the early 1970's (maybe even late 60's). We voiced our Steel String pedal in accordance with the circuit archetype that most closely resembled the Dumble SSS when doing in person comparisons between the Dumble amp and our pedal through a Fender Hot Rod DeVille as our reference, and tweaked from there. The muFET circuit nailed the tone and feel, and that's what we went with for the design of the Steel String series of pedals. Our circuit isn't the same as Craig Anderton's muFET designs, nor is it of Orman's (who came after Anderton), but certainly has many things in common to the same degree as any other analog overdrive or boost in the marketplace. Our use of muFETs is about as common as what you'd see in pedal derivatives from the App Notes section from National Semiconductors (the genesis for many pedals we know and love today).
@@SirMonteCarlo I didn't know that...however we're just asking if the Nux pedal is the same as our pedal - that's the thesis of this video.
@@SirMonteCarlo Cool! Free The Tone makes amazing pedals! I just watched John Nathan Cordy's video. As he said in the video: "If you are gonna accuse someone of cloning your pedal, probably check the schematic first, that probably matters."
Wonder what would of happened if the NUX gain was turned down and not left at noon.
Mason, your pedal is basically a clone of a Jack Orman Boost. Oh, the irony…….
Clutching at pearls...at least they actually MADE the effect and didn't just re-brand someone else's.
To the degree that your comment is true has to do with a product that is unrelated to this video and was furthermore resolved almost a decade ago. I can understand the temptation to graft on the Axis Wah here, which several have attempted to do in the comments section as a consequence of their prejudice toward me or Vertex and perhaps any mention of "cloning" to be in bad taste. To the degree it's possible, at least financially, anyone that ever owned that product was provided the restitution they desired whether it be a full refund, exchange for another product, or a credit if they decided to keep the wah and get back the difference of what they paid versus the cost of a wah from Barcus Berry. Furthermore, although I can't fully restore any emotion damage done to those that purchase this product - feeling betrayed, lied to, and deceived - all which are true and legitimate, were issue a full apologies separately from any public "coming clean" statements that were made. Short of that, I'm not sure how this could have been resolved any better - all customers were restored financially on their terms, apologized to, and we've moved forward to create product with full transparency and customers have the ability to choose to buy our products or not based on what they know about my past and Vertex's. Your comment isn't actually looking at the pedal that's the subject of the video, we did manufacture this product (Steel String Clean Drive MKII), and by all accounts this NOT a re-branded product. This is something you can easily see if you open the pedal up or look at a photo of the PCB (which are widely available online). I think if you're objectively looking at what's presented in this video, it's not a "take-down" of NUX or their product in any way. I think many have jumped to conclusions prior to evaluating the claims in the video and the nature of what it's actually about and inferred the most uncharitable intent of the video based on their prejudices.
Wait isn’t this the company that was literally selling clone/re-cased pedals???? Lmao
They just partnered with Amazon to do the prime pedals.
Donny, that was us. You may or may not be aware, but every customer and dealership that ever owned an Axis Wah was provided a full refund, rebate, or exchange according to their desired restitution back in 2014. In fact, we still leave the door open to any owner of the product that was previously unaware of refund options and keep a public record of all Axis Wah refunds on our website for anyone to view since 2014: www.vertexeffects.com/axis-wah. The Axis Wah is not representative of our company values and the products we make. We've worked tirelessly to make a new impression and continue to maintain a high standard of quality and customer service with transparency around each product and its origins. All we can do is release the best sounding products possible and give our customers the best possible quality and support in hopes that with time we'll earn back their trust.
Didn’t Joe Bonamassa make an official statement detailing how you overcharged him for a product he didn’t ask for and used him as an endorsee without his permission?
Found it.
"Joe Bonamassa wrote:
Hey Guys,
I'm sorry to be chiming in so late but I must warn all you fellow gear nerds to stay away from Vertex effects and pedalboard services. Mason is not truthful nor is his work good or in most cases his own. He had me on his site without permission as a user and happy customer. I am/was neither happy nor do I use any of his products. My pedalboard sounded awful, took tons of gain away, and added a huge ground hum. It also cost $1400 and that was after I pitched a fit when the $2000 bill came to my tour manager all the while seeing unauthorized You Tube videos of my " new rig" a rig I never tried nor signed off on. Fortunately Dave Friedman at Rack Systems came in and saved the day for $400. All I wanted and asked for was to have some cables cut to size. I didn't want to waste Dave's time so I gave it to Mason. BIG MISTAKE.... I am very disturbed by his actions and have heard recently that he has been called out on some Wah Wah pedal stuff. Bad News Bear that cat is unfortunately.
So... In closing...
Just trying to keep my fellow guitar nerds from getting ripped off like I was.
Caveat Emptor
Joe Bonamassa."
@@Quipstiley With respect to Joe - he commissioned me to build him a pedalboard after seeing the rigs he built for Josh Smith and Kirk Fletcher on New Year’s Day 2014. The issue, as I understand it, began with a discrepancy around the billing after the rig was completed and delivered to Joe. Regrettably, I did not have a discussion of costs with Joe prior to us delivering the rig which could have prevented this. After the pedalboard was delivered to Joe with an invoice, the billing was above Joe’s expectations, and created upset as a result (we charged the same rate for Joe as we charged any other customer at the time including Josh Smith and Kirk Fletcher who were my intro to Joe). A few days later, this invoiced figure was negotiated down to a rate that was amicable to Joe based on his expectations.
Approximately six months later, the Axis Wah controversy came to a head in September 2014, at which point Joe had come forward on his website forum about his experience with me building his pedalboard. Joe explained that the rig didn’t sound right, that he had issues with noise, and the rig had to be taken to another rig builder to remedy the issue. He also continued that the cost above market rate for the work, and cautioned against anyone considering Vertex products or services.
I was as embarrassed as anyone to read Joe’s statement. The last thing any rig builder would want is to upset or send a faulty product to the most influential guitar superstar in the world. Although I have no doubts of the sincerity of Joe’s statement, what would I have to gain by sending him something that wasn’t up to par? I will be the first to admit, as I’d imagine is the same with any rig builder, that no matter how good you are, no builder will bat 1,000% on every rig. However, we all have testing procedures in place to catch every possible issue prior to shipping a rig to a customer. At the time Joe’s rig was going through a Marshall Jubilee as his main amp, and we used the closest amp we had to test with for sound and fidelity (Marshall JCM2000), and communicated with Joe were we noticed things out of the norm, for example, his Boss DD-5 was noisier in the effects loop than the DD-3.
Nevertheless, what Joe received was not to his expectations. As rig builders, that is our responsibility to each and every customer to deliver a bulletproof rig that functions perfectly. However, our ability to be able to take corrective action for a customer (Joe or otherwise) and resolve an issue is only possible when the customer communicates with us about a problem - and, over the six months that Joe had the rig in his possession, we didn’t hear anything from him regarding the rig not meeting expectations. The only problem communicated to us was at the point Joe received the pedalboard, where he communicated that our rates were higher than his expectations.
I wish it had gone down differently and had a chance to remedy this for Joe over the course of the six months he had the rig prior to making his public address. Understandably, the timing of this, plus feeling overcharged from our initial work together, compounded by what was going on with the Axis Wah, certainly wasn’t a recipe to bring Joe back to the table.
It was a business dealing that didn’t go to plan, that I wish we could change. These issues are more common than we might think in our industry, but ordinarily would have remained between the client and service provider, or hopefully resolved between the two parties. However, with the Wah controversy looming, and Joe’s past experience, I’m sure he felt the need to warn others of his experience, and caution his followers of fellow gear-heads and guitarists.
18:27 but you used steel string name and knobs of a dumble amp in a product that is so much less than that.. (in your words.. copy the ascetics but not deliver the sonic elements of the original). I like your pedal, but I think the problem is the hypocrisy. OBS: Nux clone is a free of tone string slinger.
Correct, we have no claim to the look and we say that at 2:18. The thesis stated in the video is "they look the same, but do they sound the same?" The conclusion we reach is "no". I don't get into speculating what it might be, just that it looks like our pedal but doesn't deliver in replicating the sound, e.g. "does not deliver on the sonic elements of the original". If it's an FTT pedal, that would explain why it's not the same sound. However, it seems like the look was certainly intended to appeal to those looking for a low price version of our Steel String pedal, as our pedal is the only pedal doing a clean Dumble SSS amp in a pedal format that looks like this on the market that I'm aware of.
Do yo know if Nux has clone a BBE wah?
Couldn't say...I suppose check their website.
Wait...hasn’t it been proven that the Steel String and the Ultraphonix are clones of someone else’s circuit from an online forum? Or if you are claiming the pedal origin, they are just clones of Dumble preamps with JFETs instead of tubes and maybe a few tweaks? Don’t get me wrong I know the pedal industry does this kind of stuff a lot and it’s hard to find a circuit design that is truly unique without basing it off something else first. But I stopped the video pretty early on when you started talking about quality components, seeing as the whole BBE Ben Wah controversy wasn’t really all that great for your company or credentials. It takes a lot of balls to make a video like this considering, you’re kind of a NUX like company with a higher price tag.
It take a lot of balls to comment on a video you didn't watch.
Typical Mason !! Nobody tests the pedals with the pots in the same place . All pots are not the same , and adjusting the filter control would probably get them quite close.. But even better the Nux has a decent set of sized controls which make it better. I have a Nux Horseman and it is really a good pedal .
Nathan, the video spells out any claims of originality to the product in question. If you watched it you'll easily see that. Regarding the BBE product, it's a dissimilar comparison. I bought the Wah pedals from them in my company name with their knowledge, and while I would agree that from the customer POV the fall out was awful and was handled terribly by me - all that were involved were refunded in full, exchanges, or credited with whatever form of restitution they requested clear back in 2014.
Vertex Effects I get what you’re saying and I did rewatch the video up until half way through the playing. Honestly before this video I was kinda liking your videos again and figured you’d moved in a good direction away from all that, but something about the way you talk about being cloned, just doesn’t sit right with me. I’m not excusing NUX by any means here. They are like a lot of cheap foreign made pedals on the market and blatantly steal designs and circuits. But what some of us find in the pedal community is that some more “boutique” companies do the same and take credit for things they didn’t do. It’s just hard for me to sit here and see you make a video like this, knowing the past. And I do recognize you made it right with the Ben Wah, but it’s not something that just goes away.
@@nathansnyderart the point of the video was really, is the Nux really a clone, and does it sound the same. I tried to remain as objective as I could about it, maybe we missed the mark in your view to this end. I do have a past with the BBE Wah, but that wasn't a clone and is fundamentally different than what is happening here with Nux, although I understand the temptation to collapse the two events. I'll wear my past like a tattoo, but it doesn't change the fact that the Steel String was cloned, at least aesthetically, if not circuit-wise. This video unpacks that. Irrespective of my past, I have as much a right as anyone to comment on a pedal, especially one of my own.
This is the second tone-testing video of yours that I find possibly disingenuous. The first was about loop switchers where you had a Klone buffer in one scenario without mentioning. Now you’re a/bing without touching knobs and trying to get the Nux to sound closer.
The purpose of this video was to see if the pedals are the same circuit. If all the pedals are at noon and one has 3-4x the gain of the other two, clearly it's not the same and can't be chalked up to tolerances. I'm sure there be some demos comparing the two in the future which might help you have a better sense of the range fo the two. I'm a terrible demo guy, and it's not my place to give you a quality A/B of what each is capable of, and again, I'm just qualifying that the two pedals are NOT the same and have some clear differences if the spec sheet alone isn't enough to tell you that there are already some differences as outlined in the video.
@@VertexEffectsInc thanx for responding. I see what you're getting at, maybe I'm projecting what I thought would be most "revealing" testament to the NUX as a clone which would be if they could be dialed in to sound the same rather than tolerance/values/a more objective technical comparison. Aesthetically-its obviously ripping your design/take on the Dumble aesthetic but I've heard sound wise they were aiming for the Free The Tone String Slinger. who knows. I have a suspicion that as silly as it may be, calling yourself the Rig Doctor (obviously tongue in cheek) might subject you to being held to a higher, maybe impossible, standard for all things tone compared to a demo/tone lesson from some stoned metalhead in their basement. Either way, it's all taken too seriously. I hope i get to try your V1 some day. Always sounds great in demos. I enjoy your videos as a whole, so thanx for the effort and ambition to share the knowledge.
@@winstonsmith8236 thanks for watching and for the feedback!
I think it's more helpful when pedal demos try to dial in the same tones. Of course they sound different with the knobs at noon. If you wanted to really compare what tones you can dial in you would turn knobs. Fair to show the Nux has more OD, but you can still turn the gain down to compare.
^This
My intent here was to set them all at noon and that if they were the same (outside of the spec sheet being quite different) were we even in the ballpark. Fundamentally, they were different. If it's 3-4x the gain at noon, it's not going to get into the vibe of the Steel String which is really more of a low gain overdrive or high gain boost at best, even at max gain. I'm sure there will be more knob-turning demos to come from other TH-camrs.
didn't y'all just slap some vertex logos on a BBE wah not that long ago?
About seven years ago, and resolved that by 2014 with all involved. What happened with the Axis Wah (a re-branding of a BBE Wah) and the cloning of the Vertex Steel String as the Nux Steel Singer are fundamentally different and incomparable. With the Axis Wah, I was purchasing the wah directly from BBE with their full knowledge, in my company name, and they were getting paid the same as if they sold it to any other dealer in their network. You can see that plainly on this invoice example from 2013 where my name and my company name are all clearly spelled out here: drive.google.com/file/d/1p2eoqWOaNO4otufq2Ux35luhYLakIpTb. By contrast, with the Nux, there is no re-branding. I don’t get paid by Nux when they sell a Steel Singer pedal. They’re cloning, at least aesthetically, the look of our Steel String. As I state in the video, that’s their right. I have no claim to the look, I have no claim to inventing the use of muFET circuits. What Nux is doing is all fair game as said in the video. The point of the video is “I Got Cloned!” Well...kinda. We got cloned, but the clone really isn’t a clone. It doesn’t sound like our pedal, but looks a lot like our pedal. The Nux Steel Singer does sound good as I said - just not particularly Dumbley to my ears, and more like a Tweed type break up. More gain, more treble, more compressed than the Vertex Steel String. Both sound good in their own right, they just don’t have any sonic overlap where I see them as being in the same ballpark.
@@VertexEffectsInc Yeah man I get it, there are some differences between this situation and yours with the BBE wahs, but considering how much blowback you got on that this seems like a weird thing to bring up unsolicitedly. You do you I guess, but this was an odd choice IMHO ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@thisgoestoeleven should I let my past dictate my future? I've owned my mistakes, paid for them, and resolved them with those that were impacted. Some can overlook that, some can't. The analysis in this video is as objective as I can make it and the content is based around facts and not conjecture. Our audience asked for this, and as the guy on the other side of this pedal, am I not allowed a voice in the discussion?
@@VjekoslavMaxLuburicZDS What comments do you think are being deleted? Read the many comments posted attacking him here. Seems if he was deleting comments these would not be posted.
@@VertexEffectsInc You're allowed to do whatever you want, I just pointed out that it seemed like an odd choice to make.
Came here to research the vertex and IMMEDIATELY fell in love with and bought the Nux.
Enjoy!
"All knobs at noon" isn't really a fair comparison. As we've seen from many other drive shootouts, components can vary, tolerances can diverge. Handbuilt boutique pedals aside, you can take any two consecutive pedals fresh off the production line at MXR and they won't exactly match, even given the same circuit and components. Vintage fuzz circuits in particular are prone to wild variations (particularly when using NOS parts) and must be hand-tuned by an operator with ears and experience enough to ensure that the intended goal is met.
Rigorous blind A/B testing might be more 'scientific', but it's virtually impossible to level-match, due to the factors noted above, so what can we do? I'd suggest getting the best, most ideal tone possible from Pedal A and seeing if we can match that with Pedal B. That seems fair enough, and it's what Josh Scott would do.
1. You didnt get cloned, so theres no sonic quality for Nux to “not be delivering on.” They didnt sound the same because they are not the same design. You didnt compare the schematics but if you did the conclusion would have been a bit shorter.
2. You have no claim to the aesthetic, and you admit as much, so if Nux is riding on someones coattails, its Dumbles, not yours, in which case you are riding on those coattails right along with them.
3. I am no electronics wiz, but you admit the muFET-based circuit is not your own, so whos coattails are they exactly riding on as far as the circuit? Look i get theres a bit more to either circuit than this aspect of the design, but it is clearly the crux of the circuit, otherwise you and everyone else who does know circuitry wouldnt be mentioning it so intently. Clearly if there is a coattail being riden in regards to circuitry, it is not yours, and would be as silly as saying someone was riding the coattails of whoever invented the op amp, because their circuit included an op amp. So theres no coattail riding in the circuit. Theyre different, and where theyre similar, you have no claim to the originality of the design.
I appreciate you perspective and feedback. A few notes:
1) That is said in the video - it's not the same. The point was to investigate since the look of the pedals, and names are almost identical, and many of our viewers had been asking about this for a few months
2) We have no claim, correct. However, nobody has put out a Steel String pedal except us and Rockett pedals that I'm aware of, certainly, the look of the Nux pedal is using a market tested look in the choice of aesthetics of their pedal clone or not - but again, I have no claim to that. If you're being intellectually honest about it, I don't think there's any question they hoped to appeal to a similar customer as a Steel String customer.
3) The circuit style that is used for the Steel String is widely available and known for 30+ years. This is true of 95% of analog overdrives in one way or another. I don't think the customer is being engaged by talk of the circuit, but rather what it does, how's it's marketed and how it looks. Most customers are not circuit literate to the point where talking about FETs, versus OPA, versus transistor to get closest to the Dumble sound is going to be the best qualification of the product.
Clone? BBE Ben Wah? Anybody?
Now he’ll buy the NUX pedals wholesale, rebrand them as Vertex and sell them for 5 times the price. I heard he even rebranded cheap Chinese cables as “boutique?”
The NUX is a clone of Free The Tone, not Vertex, and he already knows that.
And the Vertex itself is a clone.
The sweet sweet irony. This guy re-houses a pedal and then has the nerve to bitch about someone cloning his pedal.
Have you been on the Vertex website? They are actually refunding people for that and the transparency of the process is on there.
Chris Rankin, not the same thing. We never "cloned" anyone. We bought pedals and re-branded them and changed some thing in the circuit an sold them at a mark up. We've always been transparent about our past, our responsibility in that and refunded customers to that end all the way back in 2014. Also, this video isn't really upset at Nux, it actually I think will help them and give some contexts to the two pedals. If you looked at the thumbnail only, you missed the real point here.
Lol I like your pedals. But like come on man. Out of all the brands to make a video like this out there you’re obviously last who should based on your past, idk why that didn’t occur to you. Only thing I can imagine is either you knew you would be getting this sort of feedback here, or maybe you kinda feel like negative attention is better than none. I’m sure you get tired of defending yourself at this point. Enjoying my SSS though so idk.
I hear ya Dylan, the thing for us was to create some distinctions between the pedals and that although they look the same, they're not. I think the video proves that and might have done better if we'd used less provocative language in the titling or the thumbnail to start, and maybe lost the first opening line or made it something more in-line with the actual analysis of the video which was much more balanced of the two pedals. I'd like to say that my judgement is 100% on point when we make videos and predicting, roughly, how they'll be received. However, I am human, and sometimes will strike out whether I have baggage from the past or not that might color the reception of the video. In any case, I appreciate your feedback and appreciate your support and patronage. Hope you continue to enjoy your SSS pedal!
@@VertexEffectsInc Dude, that was maybe the coolest possible response to that argument. Good on you, sir.
@@pdenton thanks for watching Chuck.
@@VertexEffectsInc I hear you. Again I’m not gonna be another snarky internet bafoon who accuses you of this and that- however just questioning this content I suppose. It is appreciable or at least commendable how you or your team always have some sort of response for the negative Nancy’s, I’m sure it gets tiring.
A clone of a clone? 👀 Both are clones of the SSS…
Great video! Thanks for the open comparison. Love your stuff!
Isn’t your pedal a clone?
Over my 18+ years of playing guitar and examining/comparing pedal circuitry, I came to the conclusion long ago that almost every pedal is a clone to most degrees.
Especially in the analog overdrive domain
You *should* look at the schematic.
I'm were looking at whether they're the same pedal, and we're already different on the spec sheets and the sounds with the knobs approximately in the same place, are they really the same pedal? Sure, we could buzz it all out, and create a schematic, but does a customer really care what's in R1 and C10 if the two pedals are totally dissimilar? I think the schematic would help differentiate them more, but for a simpler, less invasive test, I think what we demonstrated is enough to qualify the thesis of "are the two pedals the same?"
The irony is killing me over here as I look at my BBE wah....pot, meet kettle.
Wouldn't Nux have to be buying the Steel String from me for that to be a parallel? As the video states, I don't think that Nux did anything of impropriety necessarily.
They actually cloned “free the tone” and not you.
I hope you're not going to talk about the morals of copying pedals 👀
All is explained in the video
Na you didn't get cloned bud. It's no a clone under the trades description act in the uk. Respect. Stay Healthy all.
If you watch the video we come to the same conclusion, we didn't get cloned, the two devices sound fundamentally different.
@@VertexEffectsInc did watch it bud and gave my opinion as requested, Speaking as a clueless noodler unfortunately we mostly don't have the opportunity to try these things side by side before we buy. To watch demos of pedals on utube is unreliable, unless guys like yourself take the time to produce the educational video you did, us noodlers are shooting in the dark. So thanks for taking the time. Regards willie.
@@VertexEffectsInc what do you mean in the beginning of the video then when you said "I got cloned"?
Hi, I’ve been having some issues with my newly bought SSS pedal. Can it only be used through a power supply? Im running it directly to my tube amp and it isn’t working. I opened it and it had no battery supply. Help?
No battery clip available, only 9VDC power adapter is possible or a power supply. IF you need some power supply recommendations we're happy to help.
I watched this video and promptly bought a NUX Steel Singer :)
Enjoy! 👍👍👍
@@VertexEffectsInc it's so cheap it piqued my curiousity. It's a well spent $50 if you can't afford the better unit. Not sure if you were feeding this 9V or 18V for your comparison, but you prob already know the 18V makes a massive difference in this pedal. Way more headroom
Weird video. I always think of vertex as cloning some other thing, mostly dumbles .
Seems like you prejudice took you away from the premise of the video.
Would have liked to have heard some different settings than 12:00 on the NUX to see if it could approximate better. Also, did you have the Vertex pedals on 18V in the demo vs. the 9V on the NUX?
All we were doing was validating that they're in much different places with similar settings...not even close in this example and not something chalked up to tolerances. I don't think the NUX can do 18V.
Hey Mason and Vertex team! I’m attempting to buy the SSS as a Christmas gift and see that it’s on pre order... is this a mistake? If not, when do you think they’ll be shipping? -Thanks!
We'll have more on the 28th. Sweetwater will have them first, I would suggest pre-ordering there as they'll be the first in line.
I’m waiting for the “Amazon Basics” version now - hahahahaha!!!
Amazon Basics pedals would fly off the shelves 🔥🔥
@Bill Hayes Check this out th-cam.com/video/hHxEQ264UWI/w-d-xo.html Close to the end of the video the guy shows the circuit board of the Amazon basic pedal. And yes that one was made by NUX
I agree that they are copying your stetic. In terms of sound, though, they might not be copying you, but the dumble. Maybe the test should have been done with the goal: Which one gets closer to the amp sound?
Thanks for watching!. Without access to the amp, it would be difficult to make that comparison. What I can say is that we had the real amp when we voiced the pedal, and I think there are about a dozen of the SSS in the world, so not likely that this was their comparison amp, but I could be wrong.
Hello Rig Doctor, thank you for this comparison. Would you be able to compare the Joyo Taichi and your pedal? It also has 2.2M Ohms apparently.
Not sure, never seen that pedal.
I have never had the pleasure of trying anything from your guys, but I have enjoyed following your channel and I appreciate how open you are about everything you talk about. I'm in a weird transition right now because I moved from the US to Finland four years ago. I didn't bring much of my gear over with me and just ended up buying an acoustic-electric and electric guitar. I have a few pedals, but most of my stuff is still in Maryland. I'm planning to bring my stuff over, but at the same time, I'm designing a new pedalboard and trying to decide what I actually need. Everything else will have to go. This is just how I have to approach this now that I live in a smaller home and have a baby. A human baby. So, my guitar babies have to take a backseat. I hate adulting, haha.
Thanks for watching and I hope you get your stuff back to Finland soon!
No you didn't. It was a clone of the Free The Tone String Slinger. Anything for clicks, huh bro 😂😂
The Nux actually sounds better to me. Thanks for the comparison, you just saved me $150!
Bam, there you go! Saved you $150! Enjoy my friend!
@@VertexEffectsInc bro
Hahahahaha no way jose for 50$ over drive you can find a much higher manufacturing pedal like a boss SD1 or even Beringher over drive man regardless for sound you are actually liking get something better man.
He literally made the pedal, support the original creator, don’t be like that.
The Nux sounds cheap, you get what you pay for but why waste money.
I just ran into this same thing with a pedal I just purchased that happened to be cloned (in both name, housing likeness/graphics, and style). Brought this up to the owner of the company I purchased from (who happens to be overseas). Pedal PCB is likely where the individual(s) doing the cloning (in the states) got his cloned board from but, as he told me, they would’ve had to guess many of the component values so it’d be an inferior product anyway.
That being said, although you manned up and tried to make things right, I do find this humorous given the past issues with Vertex. I enjoy your videos and hearing most of the stuff you release but there really aren’t any assurances that what we purchase, from any company, isn’t a clone of something else in a different box or having a different sticker.
Even comparing two identical pedals may require some - in this case minor - adjustments to make them sound the same. So to do this comparison of two different pedals with fixed pot adjustments - all in middle positions - is maybe not the real deal. The answer whether the Nux can do what the Vertex can do could probably only be answered by tweaking the pots. This also applies to the other way round: can the Vertex do what the Nux can do?
By the way: I did not hesitate buying the Vertex, which I use for quite some time now.
My intent here was to set them all at noon and that if they were the same (outside of the spec sheet being quite different) were we even in the ballpark. Fundamentally, they were different. If it's 3-4x the gain at noon, it's not going to get into the vibe of the Steel String which is really more of a low gain overdrive or high gain boost at best, even at max gain. That can't be chalked up to tolerance.
The gain structure, feel, and EQ were fundamentally different. I'm sure there will be more knob-turning demos to come from other TH-camrs. Thanks for your support!
Did you get cloned,come on. They did the exact same thing you did but affordable. THE SAME THING YOU DID.
Use your ears before opening your large hole to eat food with 😅Nowhere does mason “complain “ that they stole his design” in fact he is fair and balanced. He says the clone is a good sounding pedal ( average at best from 35 years experience IMHO”) he shows you the difference and you make your choice .The inherent character of the Nux is very very different…..
@@nickg2431That's because the NU-X is a very different pedal, and Mason is full of it.
@@richietownsend6737Oh, he does. There's no denying that this dude repainted BBE wahs, put his sticker on them and charged more than double for them.
All at noon, with pot tolerances what they are, may not be the fair comparison. Can you get it sound close by tweaking, working around with those tolerances would be a better comparison. And I am sure yours will still be better. And having a lot of second best cheapos out in the wild will only increase your sales. So good for you. Don’t be bitter. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
My intent here was to set them all at noon and that if they were the same (outside of the spec sheet being quite different) were we even in the ballpark. Fundamentally, they were different. If it's 3-4x the gain at noon, it's not going to get into the vibe of the Steel String which is really more of a low gain overdrive or high gain boost at best, even at max gain. That's not something that can be chalked up to tolerances. There's a fundamental gain structure difference, EQ, and feel between the two units. I'm sure there will be more knob-turning demos to come from other TH-camrs.
Waiting on my Steel String Supreme to arrive from Sweetwater! Kinda went out on a limb with that one, but if my intuition is correct, it will retain its position on my pedalboard for a long time to come. Thanks for your work; Cheers!
Good choice! Should be there any day!!!
When designing the steel string pedal, can you answer if you essentially cloned the amps circuit and substitute tubes for jfets, changing adjusting values along the way? Basically is the vertex steel string pedal a clone of the amp, just looking at the gain staging of the pedal etc ? Thanks! I’m assuming it would be virtually impossible/counter intuitive to get the same sound by just starting from scratch without copying the preamp gain staging and architecture ideas of the dumble amp as a basis for the pedal design
It's a Jack Orman boost with mods other builders did. Aion FX has a clone diy pcb of the SS called the Delta and explains everything in their write up
It's not a Vertex Steel String clone, it's more Free the Tone Steel Slinger style?
Thanks for watching! Nowhere in the video is that disputed. We say we don't know what it is, we conclude it's just not the same as pedal, the Steel String. It's clear that no matter what it is (Free the Tone or otherwise), the Nux pedal was hoping to draw comparisons between our device and attract a similar customer that may not be willing to spend $200. I appreciate that fact, as say so in the video - a $200 won't be for everyone. I do think however that a customer looking at the two pedals would assume a sonic relationship based on the name, the controls being the same names, and the name itself being a few letters off and stating "Clean Drive" on the pedal. There's nothing on the pedal that would tell you that it had any relationship to Free the Tone, nor was that advertised until after this video released for anything that I could find. Seeing these two pedals side by side would be like seeing a box of Cornflakes and generic box of Cornflakes on a grocery isle. Let's call the generic box "Cornfakes". The customer is going to presume from the look and the name that these two cereals are essentially the same product. Just as when Nux styles a pedal this way, of all the possible ways to invoke the Dumble look, with all of the similarities to our Steel String pedal, I think the customer will presume they're the same product and not just some other Dumble pedal.
Would've been nice to see some variations of the gain and tone knobs on the pedals. The Nux might've gotten closer in tone with the volume boosted and the gain & tone backed down. This might mean the pedal doesn't have as much sweep/range as the Vertex pedals of course but would've been interesting to hear if it could even get closer. Tone aside, the Vertex is obviously the more pro option and will take more of a beating day in day out (and sounds better imo).
The point of the video is "are the actually the same." I'm sure there will be knob turning demos from other TH-camrs in the future between the two. If we're in two different zones with all knobs at noon, I don't think it's just a tolerance thing.
@@VertexEffectsInc Fair point.
@@Escapism7133 Thanks for watching!
Very informative demo. Thanks man
Glad it was helpful!
Great comparison. I actually shot a demo on my channel of the NUX which has been very popular. It doesn’t sound exactly like your pedal, but I do think in the lower gain settings you can probably dial them into the same ball park.
The NUX definitely has more gain, which obviously your pedal doesn’t (which isn’t the intention of your pedal).
I think the NUX is that Dumble vibe with a TS style drive infront. Personally I felt the NUX shone more, in my opinion, in the lower gain settings. I think as a low gain overdrive, or general “adding colour” pedal it works great.
I haven’t personally tried your one, but it’s interesting to hear them side by side. I’d love to shoot them out sometime.
Thanks for the comment and perspective!
Um. Surely your own pedal is a copy (clone?) of another design? So Nux are actually cloning Jack Orman’s design if they are cloning anything. I’m sorry, but Vertex claiming that anyone is cloning them is the greatest irony I’ve ever seen on TH-cam,
Thanks for watching John! MuFET follower (or mu follower) is a circuit topology (totem pole configuration) not a device. The first published circuits using JFETs was an application note by National Semiconductor in the early 1970s, but had previously been used in transistor circuits in the 1960's. It is a variation of vacuum tube configurations like SRPP from 1940's, and later variations like SEPP and many other variations. Anyone claiming the Steel String circuit is the same as Orman’s is sadly mistaken, let alone totally wrong since Orman did not invent a new circuit but used established circuits as we all do in electronics design. Where our Steel String circuit topology resembles Orman’s is the order of u-follower gain stage to gain control to u-follower gain stage to tone circuit to volume, but that is where it ends. The key differences to Orman’s are the gain stages have higher static current, different biasing values and capacitor values. The tone control has different values so different turn over points (affects different frequencies). So from a topology standpoint, one can make a case for a similarity with the Orman circuit, but from an electronic standpoint, all the values are COMPLETELY different and as a result would sound VERY different and does if you were to compare them.
@@VertexEffectsInc hi. My point is that you have a horrible history of claiming designs as your own, when they are anything but original. So the whole premise of this video “did I get cloned” is hugely ironic.
Exactly
You're being too polite. Ridiculous express better the situation.
Did Jack Orman admit he cloned another design even though it may not be a pedal, it was "cloned" from others - shouldn't he admit he cloned the circuit? Seems that is only fair.
Huh? I thought Nux Steel singer was a clone of String slinger OD from Free the tone. Was that also a clone of Vertex?! Mind shattering
@Vertex Effects Just a wild thought, is it possible that the NUX is just a higher gain version of your good pedal and the similar tone could be achieved by dialling down the gain knob🤔 anyway thx for the video, it’s a nice one
It appears to be a different circuit and sound.
This is a really informative piece on the subject of “clones” in general and how it applies to this situation specifically. Well done 👍🏻
PS. Your take on their product and it’s implications is bang on in my opinion
Thanks for watching!
Looks like an interesting video. I've seen a few vids of the NUX pedal in question. It's Subtly different to the Vertex SS for sure. There's more gain on tap on the NUX from what I've seen which sort of defeats the object of it sounding like a SSS which was just massive and clean with very little gain much like the Vertex SS. There are some examples of attaining the same sounds from the NUX as the Vertex though. Interested to see how Vertex plays this one in their vid
Looking forward to your review of the video.
@@VertexEffectsInc Judt as I suspected haha. The NUX didn’t sound bad, just different. Completely different midrange, didn’t have that rounded low-mid fatness associated with a Dumble that the SS MK1 and MK2 have. It would have nice to see you try and match the gain of the NUX with the SS. Just to see how close you could get. I really hope you no longer take any notice of the Ahole comments you still get on here or on TGP for that matter. People make mistakes, we makeour apologies, turn a corner and move on and I genuinely believe you have. Proud to have an Ultraphonix on my board as my main overdrive unit. Keep up the good work Mason!
@@m34rocks29 Thanks for your comment and perspective!
Pick up selection… not in the same
Positions for comparisons? 12:13
How much of a difference is there (electronically/tonally) with bigger traces?
Negligible in most circuits.
I agree with you 100 %. I built my own clone of the steel string based on a kit from fuzz dog UK. I would imagine that my clone also has significant differencies compared to your design, have not had the chance to compare. It is important to be aware of this though!
Thanks for watching and for your perspective!
I've made expensive mistakes in my tone search. I thought Lace Sensors would make me sound like Eric Clapton and Buddy Guy. I still sound like me. I thought a Soul Food would give me that mojo I've been chasing half my life. Instead it was the worst OD I ever owned. Now I know your SSS won't make me sound like Mayer but I do believe it will drastically improve the tone of my semi clean signal path. It's at the top of my wish list.
Thanks for the support James!!!
Dude. The NUX Solid Studio came out a year before the Strymon Iridium. Of all the Chinese brands, they're doing the most work to try do something a little different.
It's the format I think that is what they're using more of in this regard. It's harder to imitate something like the Strymon digital pedals compared to the analog devices, like the Steel String, Tumnus, MI Audio Crunchbox, etc.
I've found with Nux pedals their headroom and frequency range isn't great. However, they do make some nice delays and modulation effects that are totally usable.
Could this pedal be based on the Way Huge Overrated Overdrive? To me it sounds nothing like the Vertex Steel String, it's more in the land of a Screamer through a Dumble.
I think this pedal is good in fact...just not really Dumbley. It could be, but I think that based on the name and the "clean drive" it's likely our pedal...I'm open to being wrong on that.
Kinda like that time a boutique pedal company took an existing wah pedal from BBE and passed it off as their own
Chad, hope you enjoyed the video and could see the downstream consequences for boutique makers in general even if you don't like me/Vertex. If you do a little research, you'll see that BBE sold Wah pedals to us in our company name the entire time we sold the Axis Wah - no impropriety in our business dealing with them or cloning involved. This is not a comparable example with what's being discussed in this video with the Nux Steel Singer vs. Vertex Steel String.
So was it okay for you to rebrand and upcharge those wah pedals because you bought them under your company name? What a load of crap.
@@ronmichael2167 that's about as bad faith of a reading of what is being answered here. The original comment is saying that we did the same thing to BBE as Nux did to us. We didn't. They're isolated events and collapsing them is frankly a dishonest appraisal of the discussion. The relationship between Vertex and our customers that purchased the Axis Wah was inexcusable, and I regret that every day. However, we were able to make things right for them with full refunds, rebates, or exchanges based on their desired restitution almost seven years ago. I've made no attempt to obfuscate what I did or my responsibility in what happened and my roll in what happened with the Axis Wah back in 2014.
@@skeletor2000 there is no legitimacy or excuse for what I did with the Axis Wah. The original post suggested that what Nux is doing to the Steel String is parallel to the Axis Wah and my relationship to BBE. It's not. As I said to Ron below, they're isolated events and collapsing them is frankly a dishonest appraisal of the discussion. The relationship between Vertex and our customers that purchased the Axis Wah was inexcusable, and I regret that every day. However, we were able to make things right for them with full refunds, rebates, or exchanges based on their desired restitution almost seven years ago. I've made no attempt to obfuscate what I did or my responsibility in what happened and my roll in what happened with the Axis Wah back in 2014.
The first pedal did not have everything at noon! 😅
Taking everything into account, I think the NUX sounds great
Idk, playing and pick up position changed from the pedal Vertex to the NU-X. Tended to dig in more on the NU-X
Thanks for watching. I think the only part where it's not aligned is in the "Start Me Up" lick everything else aligns. As we say in the video, the pedal sounds good, just fundamentally different as the thesis suggest.
Hi Mason. Would love to see a comparison between the Steel String Singer and Cornerstone Gladio (as they are both quality boutique pedals and can compare better to a cheap alternative). Cheers and always glad to see your work man.
They’re not based on the same thing - the Cornerstone is based on a Dumble ODS type sound, not steel string singer.
What about when you just re-house something and call it your own, is that cloning?
No, that's re-housing or re-branding and unrelated to the topic of this video.
@@VertexEffectsInc It is a relevant comment on any video you post. People need to know what you are about. I'll give it to you though, it took some balls to make this video knowing all the shady shit you have in your past.
@@kylebowers6093 I've been forthcoming about anything that I'm accountable for and accepted full responsibility for my actions as it relates to my past. Commenting from the pretense that I've done otherwise is also being dishonest of the reality that I owned my mistakes and made good on providing full restitution to all those that were impacted by my behavior and decisions from almost a decade ago. Grafting that to a video that's asking if two pedals are the same, while at no time diminishing the rival product is divorced from rebranding or re-labeling a product. I make no suggestion of that or accusation of that. I simply ask - are these pedals the same? It turns out, they are not as we explain in the video. Needing to have a preamble before any video to explain my personal shortcomings in my past as a jumping off point to any public address seems akin to a dictatorial regime or a "Scarlet Letter '' of some kind. Do you require the same of your smartphone/computer makers that have induced working conditions in the name of productivity - as Apple has - that have resulted in employee's committing suicide? Do you require the same of your bankers or mortgage lenders that knowingly issued you, your neighbors, and/or family subprime unsecured mortgages that resulted in good standing families getting evicted from their homes and losing their life savings as Wells Fargo, Chase, BofA and others did? Do you require the same of you sneaker makers that turned a blind eye to child labor practices in Vietnam, Philippines, Sri Lanka, and most of Southeast Asia - as Nike and did - in order to reduce their costs? What about your elected officials? There are innumerable examples of bad morals and dishonesty all around us. Much of which goes unnoticed and some of which feels too beyond our control to address as individuals the institutions are so large our dissenting voice would be a drop in the bucket. I think accountability is good, I think sunlight is a good disinfectant - but also it can be hard to pull off that scent once your inertia is already propelling you in that direction and can cause us to be lazy in our characterization of the way things are. I made an awful choice a decade ago that put bad decisions in motion that compounded more bad decisions - I wish I could take that back, but I can't. I fixed that and cleaned it up with every person that ever bought the product within a year of my shortcomings becoming public knowledge and still leave the door open to this day to anyone just learning of what happened that hadn't received their due restitution. If that makes me the worst person you know and deserving of your worst ongoing scrutiny - count yourself as lucky.
@@VertexEffectsInc The NUX pedal is not a clone of your pedal, it is a clone of a Free the Tone pedal. And "your" pedal is itself a clone of a Jack Orman AMZ FX Boost. You are just a very dishonest person. I don't care about the refunds you gave, true amends is not repeating the behavior and the Axis Wah is only the tip of the iceberg of shady things in your past. A quick Google search is all that is needed to uncover many many other examples of your dishonesty. TGP is full of examples, but don't take it from me, here is what Joe Bonamassa had to say about Vertex effects..."Hey Guys,
I'm sorry to be chiming in so late but I must warn all you fellow gear nerds to stay away from Vertex effects and pedalboard services. Mason is not truthful nor is his work good or in most cases his own. He had me on his site without permission as a user and happy customer. I am/was neither happy nor do I use any of his products. My pedalboard sounded awful, took tons of gain away, and added a huge ground hum. It also cost $1400 and that was after I pitched a fit when the $2000 bill came to my tour manager all the while seeing unauthorized You Tube videos of my " new rig" a rig I never tried nor signed off on. Fortunately Dave Friedman at Rack Systems came in and saved the day for $400. All I wanted and asked for was to have some cables cut to size. I didn't want to waste Dave's time so I gave it to Mason. BIG MISTAKE.... I am very disturbed by his actions and have heard recently that he has been called out on some Wah Wah pedal stuff. Bad News Bear that cat is unfortunately.
So... In closing...
Just trying to keep my fellow guitar nerds from getting ripped off like I was.
Caveat Emptor
Joe Bonamassa."
Seen a lot of negative comments directed at these guys due to a past incident with copying pedals - what ever happened to second chances? People make mistakes all the time! Personally I use the Ultraphonix Overdrive and it sounds mint 👍🏻 Good video, and great pedals man!
Thanks for watching Jake!
+++ Thank you so much for this really good explanation of "how to see " those kind of pedals+++ i am such a big fan of your videos and i am thinking of getting a SSS pedal from Vertex, thats the real stuff. We love you for spendig so much efford and love in pedalboard- building+++
Give them both to that ‘Shnobel cat’ I apologize if I’m spelling his name incorrectly. But if they’re on the same voltage selection and he tweaks knobs I’ll bet he can get them to sound the same. I think once I May have heard him make a metal zone sound like a P 45!
I'm sure it's just a matter of time before there is a a/b demo that's done by someone more skilled at guitar than me, however I don't think they'll find them to be the same.
If you are trying to claim that another company cloned your pedal, isn't the schematic the most important thing to look at? Am I missing something here...?
Watch the video and we unpack why we don't do this beyond just looking at the overall specs.
Im buying my NUX today!
...so Xcited!
CHEERS!!!.
😎👍🎸
Enjoy
Good exposition. This reminds me of the only pedal purchase that I have yet regretted, where I allowed price to be one of the engineering criteria. YMMV, that just doesn't work out for me. That one had a noise floor a couple storeys upstairs of where I wanted it. Anyway if you have soldered a circuit or two, you can appreciate the value of the person who actually crafts the unit, and I don't see any reason not to pay them fairly. It's all up to what you value, and your means. I actually buy way, way, beyond my budget, but that is just my preference. 💸
thanks for watching and for sharing your perspective.
Your MK1 sounds great! but it would have been nice to hear the NuX using the same pickup on the guitar.
I think it was on all minus the Stones riff as I was pointed out a few times here. Should match up the 95% of the time.
I own the Steel String MK1 and it’s one of my fav’ pedal ever! Like I love my Timmy... I don’t like mid or high gain OD.
Your version 1 is a killer ;)
Glad you dig it! Thanks for watching!
C'mon man you just proved that the Nux pedal is not a clone of your pedal. They are just both Dumble inspired pedals, both in sound and looks. Stop being such a paranoid snowflake
Thanks for watching and the feedback!
I mean if you look at Nuxs line of pedals you can see they are making clones of multiple different brands. He’s not being a “paranoid snowflake” and was just making an informative video about it. You can make a dumble inspired pedal that doesn’t look exactly like other dumble inspired pedals.
It’s pretty obvious Nux is cloning off multiple pedal brands out there.
@@joshelmore9089 Yeah, Nux make copy of many pedals, that's how they started and that's how they conduct their business. But in this case they are not copying his pedal, and he proves it in the video itself, one is an overdrive and the other a clean boost, both intended to resembles a Dumble sound, that's why he refuses to talk about the circuit, because they are not clones. The only similarity of the pedals are the color, the knobs and the lettering, and all of these comes from the Dumble amp design. Complaining that someone cloned you pedal because of it is like saying that every Marshall in a Box that's uses black and gold knobs and the Marshall font are clones of each other
Matheus Colla ok cool dude
Yeah I work at a shop that sells Nux products, and we recently got this reissue series in the shop.
Honestly they aren't brilliant pedals, there are good copies that I think bring some awesome tones to people without means, but this series in particular just miss the mark.
Personal I prefer Joyo as an import brand, because a lot of their stuff is either not obviously a copy, and they are doing something different with it, and also because it's actually pretty good quality.
I'd be interested to hear what you think about some of their products.
I think everything you've said makes a lot of sense, and honestly I don't really think that brands like Nux can actually compete with boutique builders like yourself, because it's a totally different ball game really. They offer pedals that work mostly to start with, and will really get you interested in the pedal world, which a $200 overdrive can't really do to someone who is brand new to this gear stuff. But a cheaper pedal just won't sound as good/work as well/ have the same buyer experience/ have clout/ or any other number of things.
Thanks for your honesty Mason, this was very clear and well thought through.
Thanks for weighing in! I appreciate your perspective.
Best thing you could have done was come clean about what happened in the past, you made up for it, you manned up. Good for you and I can respect that. Don't let the haters get you down. I suck at guitar but trying to get my boy into it, he seems to have been motivated after taking him to see Iron Maiden. I'll be saving my pennies to get the boost or a buffer. That might have to wait a bit though, the Fender amp that came in the package deal already stopped working after a year. We have also been watching alot of your videos together on pedalboards . Seems to do the trick for motivation too...haha. I don't know if it's just my wishfull thinking but I hope he get's into playing and what parent doesn't want to give their kids the best gear. Anyways thanks for the vids we both learn alot from you , Thanks !
Thanks for watching and for leaving the kind note!
The haters can get him down all they want. The whole purpose of making this video was to get views due to his past indiscretions
why did you change the Thumbnail that said “I got cloned”? A guy did a response to your video exposing the title snd thumbnail you had before.
It was obvious that people felt misled by the title and thumbnail, and that was never our intention. So we changed it to be more representative of the video in response to our viewers.
@@VertexEffectsInc I respect the response 🔥👌🏽 I might just have to buy the SSS
@@teeveee841 if we miss the mark on something we try to correct it. Thanks for watching and the feedback!
I think for someone who’s experimenting and not professionally gigging, the nux is an excellent pedal at its price point. The high quality components is what you pay for in the vertex. It’d be interesting to get a second opinion/ video of someone who owns both and have a non biased comparison- like a blind comparison. Perhaps dialing less of the drive of the other pedal and trying to adjust the knobs to make them sound closer as some pots have different tolerances etc.
Regardless, All of these are great pedals.
Good word!
Totally reasonable...I'm sure it's only a matter of time before another A/B comes out, but I suspect no matter what you do the Nux will always have more gain and a different. I don't think they're actually trying to clone the Steel String fully, but create something similar in look that might be more of a "generalized" Dumble style pedal.
Idk, man. I have a Joyo "vintage overdrive" aka, Tube Screamer clone. I like it a lot, it has its own flavor. But the tone, volume, and drive knobs react with way less finesse. I mean, I'm mainly an MXR, EHX, TC consumer, as that is in my price range. Those brands aren't boutique, but the quality is there. It's like driving an affordable mid priced car over a budget vehicle. Can they both get you from point a to point b? Yes. But let's not pretend it's a Porsche. 😂
The real nerd thing is comparing 6 different NUX pedals to see how much variance there is the tolerances.
I was just thinking the other day how great it is in 2020 that I can here the maker of a pedal have a shoot out with a clone of his own pedal with great audio quality. I remember listening to fizzy flash audio samples of Lovetone pedals in highschool wishing I could afford them and be like Jonny Greenwood.
I got the last one on Amazon a while back...evidently they're popular. That would be a good way to compare.