Why the Moates Quarterhorse was so awesome and why it'll be missed!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ย. 2024
- A quick overview of how awesome the Quarterhorse was and why it'll be missed!!
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Correction: In the video I talk about tuning 03/04 Cobras with the Quarter horse and then at one point say it only works up until 95 ECUs and 96+ it does not. Doh!! sorry about that. It works all the way up to 2004. The completely new ECUs in the 2005+ does not support the Quarter horse.
I had a no start condition on my 89 that ended up being a dead battery on the quarthorse that was soldered on. They sent me the new style with replacable battery for free. Very impressed. Sorry to hear they dont make them anymore.
That must have been a very old unit. All the ones I've had always had replaceable batteries.
Wow I just am finding this out. I used the QH to tune my 93 LX back in 2011 and it was awesome.
Definitely the best solution out there on stock ECUs. I hope mine never breaks lol
@@MalcolmV8 I loved the dataloging and making tune changed on the fly. It was so much easier to dial my car in (h/c/i and Vortech)
@@DaveAndGray Absolutely. One of the greatest features of that combo. It's the closest thing you'll get to a stand alone ECU without actually swapping ECUs.
The J3 port does exist on 96+ ecus. My 97 cobra has it. I think it stopped in 05 when Ford went with new ECUs.
You are correct. I used those all the way to 04. All SN95 cars. I just realized I said that, that was brain lapse. I will update the description. Thanks.
All right so trying to understand the limitations of tuning or adjusting the original program in these first gen OBD2 I have a 1995 Mercury Cougar with the 4.6 non pi as of now what are my options to make adjustments in the program for the car not looking to radically change the tune just make some what I might call Corrections would a later year ECU say a 1999 or 2002 4.6 passenger car ECU for example a Crown Victoria be substituted in
If you have ODB2 on your 95 you can possibly tune it through the ODB2 port although I thought most Fords started that in 96. You can shop popular tuners like SCT, HPT, Binary Editor etc. and see if any of them supports your ECU via ODB2. If you plan to swap out the ECU from a newer year Ford you'll have to find the wiring diagrams of your car and the donor car and look for the minor differences in the ECU pinouts and then re-wire your harness accordingly. At that point I'd probably just look at replacing the factory ECU with a stand alone unless there's something specific you need from the factory ECU.
@MalcolmV8 yes ford did tbirds cougar and Lincoln mk-viii with the new 4.6 motors starting in 95.
Everything else got it in 96
I need to look into binary editor.
I heard of it mentioned but didn't know it was an actual company?
Or the brand name of the product?
Thanks dv
Yeah take a look at coretuning.net
@MalcolmV8
...a nodular nope! 1995 cougar 4.6. Not supported.
...please contact us..
So I will and ask why my poor ford is such a white elephant.
@@MalcolmV8 okay well last update I have been in contact most of the afternoon today with the gentleman from core tuning net and he looked up his records and the computer files and such and verified yes a 95 Cougar with the 4.6 is supported by their program .
I was a ked what the codes on the sticker are. The strat codes.
But it appears they have the tech to talk to my PCM!
That's why I bought a Terminator X a while ago. Sbf foxbody build
I've learned over the years when ever there's a cool custom solution of any kind (electronic or hard parts) grab it before it's gone because a lot of these things don't stay around forever.
@MalcolmV8 yeah now they(Holley) doesn't even sell the fox specific Terminator X wtf. Glad I did jump on it,love the videos and channel
Yeah they sure don’t. That’s why when I see a cool custom option I grab it while I can lol
It's interesting to here the term "tune" to describe EEC-V calibration. Adjusting constant tables (2-D and 3-D arrays) in real time on the dyno is called calibration. The term "strategy" to an OEM calibration team means several things depending upon context. "Strategy" could reference the complete binary load which includes both the code (algorithms) and constants (Tables which is being called tune in the video). "Strategy" could also reference a part of the operational code but specific to one system or function. From a top level view what a "Tuner" would see is a constant table area (Normally read only) and a variable (parameter) area (read/write memory usually RAM). If you look at the binary this is what you see along with real time access to ram locations or a mirror of the RAM locations to see the value of real time data (usually in fixed point representation as opposed to floating point).
However, the overall system is better understood if you try and look at where the algorithms (functional elements) are located, their rate of execution and how information is shared between different algorithms. The traditional "Strategy" approach for an EEC-V, for example, is a simplistic real-time OS structure called Foreground / Background, or in other words, the OS is not very advanced in terms of even a crude basic real-time OS like freeRTOS. Two reasons mainly, limited compute power and ease of code development, which tended to be basic evolution and not an appreciation of true RTOS techniques.
Piggy backing on J3 will allow the changing of real-time parameters, hopefully maintaining complete table coherency during changes (never half old, half new images) is manageable but you still suffer from the limitation in compute power, which as stated previously, impacts speed of execution and also limits options for RTOS / Task organization and design. For example, the use of fixed point math is very cumbersome, but if you understand the needed numerical accuracy, it can be very fast computationally in EEC-V terms. However, if we compare a high performance ARM based controller in 2023 with even the most basic single precision floating point unit, the computational speed is astounding and very helpful in providing support for a quality RTOS and by extension actually compartmentalizing and simplifying the overall code structure.
In making the Quarterhorse the designers had to identify the location of the tables and variables an algorithm at a time. Not all that hard to do if you look at the binary file and know what you are looking for. Also, the overall algorithms in terms of calibration were on-purpose simplified to ease the calibration process. So what you find are the algorithms inputs and outputs are relatively easy to understand as per function once you understand the basic goal of the control algorithm, for example, measured Air Flow Mass in understanding addition of fuel to achieve a desired A/F ratio.
So the tuning is containable because the algorithms only include what is needed to work (which takes a long time evolutionary wise if you were an OEM), but the foreground/background separation of execution rather than an RTOS with dedicated separate tasks, from a top level, mixes up the code elements in a segmented and seemingly incoherent fashion. So, it takes some insight to know where and when information should be shared between the different elements of the strategy and their needed execution rate.
The first realization for system level designers of ECMs is that what is really needed is a hybrid real-time operating system. One part is based on time, like A/D scanning of parameters, time meaning a set scan rate like 16ms for example. The other part is based on crankshaft events, which in basic terms describes the air exchange process in a 4-stroke engine. But, as we know the engine event rate changes with RPM, and as we go high in RPM the events occur quicker and if we go high enough we may need to choke off some processes in order to meet hard real-time deadlines like injecting fuel and controlling ignition.
Today we have many more options for system partitioning like the use of High Speed CAN. So we are no longer confined to limited processing power like in the EEC-V days, or the limitations of partitioning the system.
TLDR
What could I sell a quarter horse for now? I bought a Holley stand alone and don’t need it anymore.
Good question, probably whatever someone is willing to pay as I don't see new ones available anymore.
any help with the quarter horse would be appeciated. im tuning a 04 cobra now with a 2.8 mammoth
The quarter horse is perfect for that. The live tuning with the engine running is the most amazing feature :)
I am just going to add Quaterhoser in my 95 Escort RS Cosworth YBP with EEC-IV - I have the parts ready
Sounds like a fun project.
managed to snag a quarterhorse shortly after they were discontinued. cant find any burner chips or the jaybird burners though so i guess ill have to keep the quarterhorse plugged in at all times
Well that's the most important part. At least you got that :)
@@MalcolmV8so could you take the quarter horse do the tune and then read it out with a mongoose cable? Call the quarter horse, and reflash it with a mongoose cable?
@@vortecturbo It's even easier than that. Once you're done tuning the car with the quarter horse you just remove it and plug in the mongoose cable and flash the tune to the ECU.
@@MalcolmV8awesomeness
Hi, quick question, do you know if anyone is selling just the program? I have the rest but laptop that had program on it is long gone along with the disc🤦🏼♂️. Just curious because I found out about this bad news awhile back, and was disappointed, because I’m doing a mild build N/A 351w into a foxbody and didn’t want to spend the money for the standalone! Lol
Sure you can still get the software, Binary Editor. A company called coretuning.net developed it and sells it.
You mention using a mongoose cable to flash the tune to the ecu once your done tuning with the quarterhorse. Can you briefly explain whats needed, say special software or something like that, and how its done this way.
Thanks
Hi Tony, on SN95 cars you can flash your tune to the ECU instead of leaving a chip on the J3 port once you’re done calibrating with the quarter horse. No additional software is required. It’s supported directly from the same Binary Editor software used with the quarter horse.
@@MalcolmV8to make sure I understand you correctly than that would mean I would only need one quarter horse correct? To knit with Binary Editor on the quarter horse then pull the quarter horse off and then flash it?
@@vortecturbo Yes one quarter horse for many cars. You need a license for each car but only one quarter horse chip. When done you can then just flash the ECU with the mongoose or if it's an old school fox body ECU just burn a chip and pop it on to take the place of the quarter horse.
hopfully i can grab one before theyre gone
Might want to do that sooner than later. They are well worth it.
Malcolm Malcolm sct still offers the eliminate switch chip which is the same as the quarter horse and uses the same binary editor to tune and data log how I know because I have one in my 95 f150 it works on any eec v ford computer. Check them out sct eliminator switch chip for $220 1987 to 2004
I have SCT chips. They are different and have different cable interfaces. How did you make that work with binary editor? And how did you add data logging functionality and live on the fly tuning?
@@MalcolmV8 Dallas mustang did it and I watched and they explained how they did it $500 dyno and ride around the block and idle. I bought the chip on line forget the company name. Told the guy over the phone all parts and upgrades to the truck and he sent me a 76mm aftermarket maf housing and sensor. Installed and cracked up and ran no problem but a little fat or rich. Drove it from Shreveport to Dallas mustang in Dallas after making an appointment and showed up and they didn't there thing. All the guy did was unplug the cable at the switch and put an adapter to plug in to there laptop USB.
@@MalcolmV8I don’t think this Tracy guy knows what he’s talking about. SCT does not make anything that is the same as the Quarterhorse. Furthermore, SCT also does not have their chips or equipment working with Binary Editor because they are from two completely different companies. This Tracy guy is talking out of his a**.
@@3500camarz yeah I've never heard of this. I've been using both for many years. Completely different hardware and software.
Where can we buy your shirt!!
No where yet but I've been receiving inquiries so that is in the works.
I been debating which way to go in reference to my 03 cobra and a project fox body with a terminator swap. What do you suggest, going with the ms3 platform right? I want to keep stock dash and all even in the project fox.
There's a few things to consider. The stock ECU is emissions compliant and the QH could easily tweak the tune and retain all of that. The MS3 does not support PATS (anti-theft) or any emissions devices so depending on your needs that could go either way. The QH would also be a lot cheaper and you only buy one for both cars and two final chips to burn and place on the ECU once done tuning. On the other hand if you're looking at all the advanced features of the MS3 and the easier process of tuning through TunerStudio instead of Binary Editor then that would be a better option for you.
@@MalcolmV8 for the 03 cobra I would like to keep it as factory functional as possible. The termi swap fox can go either way. So with 1 quarter horse and 2 chips I can do all the tuning on the fly then burn the final revision of the tune onto the chip and insert it into the cobra ecu correct?
@@vicecityperformance9564 yes that's how it works. You need a burner for the chips too. It's a tiny circuit board, smaller than the chips themselves. I'm sure coretuning can set you up with all of it.
@@MalcolmV8 thanks Malcolm, much appreciated. Btw keep them videos coming, always good content.
@@vicecityperformance9564 you're welcome and thank you :)
It seems a company named MF Customs is working reproducing the QH.
I don't know where people get the info but someone told me they tried to buy out Moates when he closed but he would not sell. So they have nothing. Again just 2nd hand info going around. I have no way of verifying any of it.
@@MalcolmV8 It was in the thread on SVTP. I guess they're trying to reverse engineer the board. I didn't mean to have it come across as gospel. Just hoping someone picked up the ball and is trying to keep the stuff going
@@shftn04 reverse engineering that sounds like a long process and a lot of work but if they can make it happen that's pretty cool.
@@MalcolmV8 I hope somebody can reverse the quarter horse because that said they wouldn't even sell the property I know they wanted to retire I talked to Dave and it's really sad and depressing cuz they canceled it right before Thanksgiving 2022 and never said anything about shutting the doors on it they just shut it down and that was it. Which really pardon my French fucked our community
@@MalcolmV8 They didn't have to give them anything.. Someone can just replicate what it does. Doesn't have to be the exact thing, or an exact copy, just has to perform the same functions likely with newer hardware(so it wouldnt be able to be a COPY anyway cause most of the stuff used in all moates products are unobtainium anyway)