The key lessons from Brexit in the UK's Net Migration figures
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2023
- "There's more people coming to the UK to study and more people coming to work as well. And this is generally from outside the EU."
Despite the rise in Net migration figures Brexit has reduced the number of people arriving from the UK, Dr Ben Brinde from Oxford University's Migration Observatory tells #timesradio but MP Tim Loughton warns the UK must be able to fill skills gaps.
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So, are you saying Farage is an idiot?
Was it ever unclear?
I think we all know the answer to that question.
An idiot of gargantuan proportions but nothing like the idiots who supported him and still believe that he knows what he's talking about.
Far from it he's a very wise fool 😂😂
He isn't an idiot- far from it. He very cleverly played the UK electorate for fools. And despite all his supposed anti-EU rhetoric he tried to obtain German (EU) citizenship after the 2016 vote.
Nothing to do with brexit and everything to do with our government
Migrants from the EU were not restricted by minimum salaries or by Visa bureaucracy. Seasonal workers in construction, tourism or farming who didn't make enough for all-the-year livelihood for themselves and their family in the UK were flexible to come and go as required. This in part drives cost for UK employers and in part enables UK employers to exploit workers on temporary permits. The new terms attract migrants from poorer, further away places.
& these(greedy)
If the workers on Temporary permits were exploited by employers, they wouldn't be pushing over each other to come here.
It's amazing how people talk in terms of numbers without any context. Just X number of people arriving must be a bad thing that needs to be lower because reasons. Don't talk about the UK in comparison to other countries or question if the UK economy might need more people. None of that matters, it's all about optics without context.
@@6079_SMITH_W I get you think you're being clever by being flip and not trying to think more deeply because "immigration bad" but seriously try being a grown up.
It is entirely possible to believe there are actual negatives to immigration but still be capable of complex analysis and understand there are benefits.
If you look at the actual immigration figures and not the headlines you might be able to see some patterns emerge that would prompt more complex analysis than "immigration bad". Like "Oh look at the sectors that rely on immigration". Then you can dive into are there any domestic alternatives? Is it a net benefit to the British economy? Is society at large better or worse off?
When you look at seasonal jobs like fruit picking there clearly isn't a domestic work force because it is largely seasonal and is best suited to workers willing to travel from one location to another. There was also a small uptick in British workers who did take up those jobs and by and large none of them returned so not a reliable alternative. Food security and domestic productions is massive in terms of the economy. Also you make money from exporting so you want me production so there's more ability to export. Which means by multiple metrics more immigrants willing to come to Britain for those jobs in fact protects domestic industries and security rather than resulting in anything being "stolen". The alternative we've seen over and over again ended up with crops rotting in fields and farmers having to cut back their production. Which is bad.
You can also look at care workers and the NHS, both fields not just desperate for workers but with an aging population in need of increasing numbers. Again a huge number of immigrants are taking those jobs which are of vital importance. So you can pick between being seen for healthcare by an immigrant doctor or being smugly content England isn't being "stolen" while you languish on a waiting list.
You might not like the UK economy making so much money on international students but as it's an export that funnels money into schools that also benefits Brits. Not to mention it's fantastic soft diplomacy if you do it well. Cutting back on student visas because you think there's a risk of England being "stolen" is a bit like shooting yourself in the foot to show how much freedom you have. It would be a decision taking money away from not just schools but from local businesses that rely on students and with no benefit.
Which is my point, treating this subject like it's a binary is not giving you the complex information that might help you have an informed opinion. It shouldn't be "this number is too high because it sounds scary". Instead look at the details, look at the actual numbers in a sector by sector breakdown. Are there enough visas available for British farmers? Is there anyway to make the system work better for farmers? Are there stakeholders advocating for something different that the government should be doing? Or are the current numbers where things need to stay? Repeat as needed including what sectors are still struggling to find workers? Or has the government successfully identified deficits and addressed them? Then you could have a proper grown response and not resort to fact free insults that aren't going to convince anyone of anything. I mean people who already think "immigration bad" will think you're very clever but that's not a particularly high bar.
@@6079_SMITH_W Okay racist.
The irony of the Brexit vote and expecting better jobs and wages - somehow as a result of less EU immigration - is that with the salary threshold for work visas being so high it actually forces more Brits to take lower paid/lower skilled jobs. A well qualified foreigner will be almost unaffected by Brexit as they will meet the visa points total easily. The problem is now that the shortage of workers for low paid/low skilled jobs - which we are seeing in hospitality, retail, food & drink - cannot fulfil the points total for foreign workers and is not being filled by British workers. In a tight economy with sky-high energy bills, wage increases cannot really be used to entice workers. Businesses will shut, losing all workers employed, if they cannot reach full capacity. If a restaurant can't find a trained chef, they can't operate and everyone has to be laid off.
So, Brexit is in fact forcing the British labour market to ever-lower paid jobs because there is no longer a large supply of workers to tap. And if you are a qualified Brit, like an academic, say, you will have just as much competition from people from all over the world. They didn't promise that in the Brexit referendum: "low paid jobs for Brits! Highly qualified, well-paid jobs for everyone in the world!"
That's correct.
Not only that there are people that could be working in those low-skilled jobs taking up residence in hotels but never mind that.
You only had to take a cursory glance at the demographic time bomb to know it was hugely unlikely immigration would go down. All the xenophobia against Poles will be replaced by racism against 3rd world immigrants. Not to mention given the higher number of izloomic immigrants will increase intolerance in schools and our society for liberal values.
That’s not correct ,with hospitality there are many jobs that require skilled and qualified people chefs ,therapists, fitness just to name a few. But many people left the industry to become self employed or freelancers as they were getting paid more for their skills. Then also the number of amazon warehouse popping up around the country have taken jobs out of hospitality because there were paying more for a low skilled job. One amazon warehouse employs about 2000 people, your average hotel employes about 20 people so that’s a lot of hospitality places going to be affected if amazon opens up in your area. So actually wages have had to go up in hospitality because of those two factors
What everyone is missing here is brexit means WE lost OUR freedom of movement!
No, it’s what you voted for. You are a third country like the U.S. or Australia now.
The 'coming for education' number is very strange because it continues to be high every single year. You would expect it to be close to zero, because as many students would be returning as arriving. The implication is that students mainly stay after their courses are over.
Students coming from abroad particularly Asia need to bring a lot of people with them. - they do not come on there own. Once they are here - they do not go home.
@@charleswillcock3235nonsense
According to the ONS about 35% remain in the UK. That's higher than I thought but still not "most".
If they are 'dependents' then they have money already to help support the student and put money into our economy so surely that is a good thing, I fail to see the problem... Or is it because they are foreign you don't like?
@@chrisnaylor6814 I'm confused by the stats and rather annoyed that I was on the losing side in the Brexit debate, which focused heavily on controling immigration, yet now it's higher than ever and apparently not an issue. Unless it comes by boat, of course.
Whenever they say 'we cant recruit from the Uk' what they really mean is.... We cant or wont pay to educate and train uk residents because uk residents have high wage requirements to cover their ridiculous living costs. So they further stack the costs to residents by filling up space with t 'visitors' this migration for jobs malarky is a self fulfilling prophecy. The only way to resolve the dilemma is to make do without for a period of time. But we cant do that because even the slightest inconvenience just too much for our pathetic rulers.
The issue of non-EU migration to the UK has nothing to do with Brexit - it is the fault of the present government who promised an Australian-style, points-based system. They said that those applying to come to the UK would need to fulfil certain criteria, like a STEM PhD (not unreasonable), and/or a job offering at least £35K (again not unreasonable) and so on and that net immigration would fall. This was in the Conservative Party Manifesto for the 2019 general election. Once they won the election, they binned that promise and lowered the bar, abandoning the PhD and dropping the pay to about £23,000. The alleged Tory MP, Lawton, has broken the promise and betrayed voters. He is a disgrace. They all are.
Brexit benefit in my book.
Which promises from the 2019 Conservative manifesto have the numerous governments kept? 😮
It all has to do with the stupidity of Brexit.
It is to do with Brexit, remainers warned about the updrive in third nation immigrants if we left the EU when we then started having to trade according to WTO rules. India for example made it very clear that they would only trade with the UK freely if we accepted freedom of movement from India. These were very real concerns. Remainers were not pro immigration, they were pro immigration in a structured environment like the EU where there was mutual recognition and benefit. Don’t forget Liz truss, the worst PM in history negotiated many of the trade agreements we now have with 3rd nations as the Secretary of State for international trade post Brexit. This mass immigration from 3rd nations is a direct result of Brexit, you were warned about it and called it project fear, don’t deny it now because you don’t like that Remainers were correct in this prediction.
@@andrewrobinson2565 See Page 20 of the manifesto - it's still online and it's still all there.
Why does Dr Ben think migration will drop after 2030? What are the factors that cause this....
10 years after Brexit the UK will be a 3rd world country. Why would you want to escape poverty to live in poverty?
I venture a guess: UK becoming less attractive due to high inflation and effectively lowered wages. And an increasingly rabid and unpleasant extreme right.
Another 7 years, so at the current rate that's another 6 or 7 million. Crazy
Migrants can come to the countries of Eastern Europe, to the countries of Intermarium, in these countries there is a good climate, there are forests, space, it is clean and safe, lower costs of living such as food, water, sewage, sewage, electricity, than those in Western Europe, in the countries of Eastern Europe There are factories, factories and processing plants in Intermarium.
The irony is that there is more migration from none EU countries after Brexit putting Ukraine aside for obvious reasons. This is a trend also seen in the EU, it can only be sorted out by European cooperation bust.
Hong Kong ?
@@nigelhopkinson6614their not talking homes etc their working and want to go home same as Ukrainian folks they were women and children, can't wait to get out of here,its the 165 thousand fighting age men I'm worried about sitting in hotels,we haven't got an army that size JESO the police we're terrified and admitted they we're out numbered while Jewish people were being terrorised 💯👍
@@nigelhopkinson6614 you can put Hong Kong in that same bracket due to political persecution.
Who is this berk 10s of thousands goal now 100s of thousands and bringing in family with students could have been stopped 13 years ago.
At the current rate we will be able to replace 'The 17million' in the next 10+ years. Cant wait...
The government is going to take action ? What a laugh that is.
Indians are the second largest migrants now to the UK.
Most come as students but they are working in shops, restaurants or delivery and never attend these colleges giving out worthless degrees. Then once here they change visa to working one.
The govt is aware of it but because they are all landowners they benefit from immigration.
We use to have a lot of Eastern European people in the nhs were i work... now i see a lot of idians and philippinos
As a swede with many friends who has been working in UK, mostly within Health care and very appreciated due to high quality education and good treatment of patients I think Brexit will have an effect on the NHS. So sad noone realized that Farage was on Putins payroll.
Farage and Rees Mogg announced in public that Brexit is not working. Wow ,they are dim not to notice it
They knew, .... but ignored all the signs, (arron banks), is as corrupt as Farage.
We just need someone that can do something in government. Totally useless. Labour would let even more in.
When these jobs vacancies are filled there’s no excuse for these numbers to be the same each year, if they do it’s because they are not staying at their jobs.
Lies lies lies I wish they become truths and that everyone in the world believes Brexit brexi brex bre br b.
How many of the 600k were Europeans ?
What is the problem with paying decent wages?
It is so simple.
Set up a minimum salary for a foreign worker at 50k - part time or not. Just minimum whether they work one hour a week or 42 hrs a week.
So local people at 40k will be cheap like cheaps.
the question is whtether the economy will last long with this idea.
United Kingdom, the UK should join the Schengen area.
People we must vote REFORM party tell your family and friends, spread the word 👍🏻🎄🥂 merry Christmas
Dreaming of a white Christmas?
I believe the UK is now a failed state under our present Government. We have uncontrolled borders, our Home Office continue to issue long term visas to all comers, 1 in 10 local authorities are bankrupt including 2nd largest in the UK Birmingham I also think London Local Government is Bankrupt under management of Sadiq Kahn . UK National Debt if you include pension commitments nearly 4 times the UK GDP. Tax rates are the highest in our lifetimes and very little chance of any of this changing. We spend more on illegal immigration than defence or educating our people. Just reflect on the mess our Public Servants have created along with our 650 MP's
'Less people' (sic), 2:05. Times Radio! Gracious!
IMMIGRATION REFERENDUM required on population replacement
You had one in 2016 - you won perhaps you should get over it.
I'm all for replacement. The invading anglo-saxons can't have it all their way.
, uk government never implemented law to authoritise referendum
don't make an immigration population the size of Liverpool sound like a good thing. the majority are sick of it
They voted for this.
@@adblocker276 I didn’t
Only 8% of England is built on. Plenty of room for new Council Houses .
Some people can't see reality!
The Tory MP who said that the Ukrainians will want to go home when the war is over is hopelessly naive
A good number will want to go home, and a good number will wish to remain.
As someone who has worked with Ukrainians, and people of Ukrainian descent, all of my life, I'm quite happy. Pas de problem?
@@carlthor91
A good number will want to return to their Husbands and Fathers. Which is as stark difference in demographic to economic migrants.
@@Officialnrb Please take a look at the UK age demographics, then do some serious thinking.
Good evening.
@@carlthor91
Please take a look at the illegal migrant gender demographic then do some serious thinking.
Good Evening.
Why are foreign students included in net migration figures? Most don't stay after their studies.
Apparently they do, otherwise they would offset the numbers when they leave.
What Brexit?
This man has mastered gaslighting for ceo's and landlords. genius.
Working-Hard(to(culturally)
Not being able to fill the NHS roles is a "benefit" of this.
Luckily we have increased migration from further away, just like the Brexiters were hoping, surely...
We stopped illegal immigration in Australia. You need fearless leadership who keeps their promise and doesn't give in to international pressure or internal pressure from elites. Then we have our points based system and still have legal immigrants.
And I got my work visa rejected to go over as Senior software developer. You guys have some pretty weird priorities
After the brexit 1.5 million Indian-origins allowed in by Prite Patel through the points based system.
I See ...
HUFFPUFFERY by the NEOCON cons.....FFS....
The higher the migration the lower the standards of living for the people already here, this forces the UK people out.
Is this a fact? Can you explain in some detail, as I can't really follow your reasoning?
With over 600,000 people coming to the UK each year they use resources and housing. Over the last 10 years where I live the percentage on non UK people has grown, in that time I know of no new hospitals, dentists, doctors etc being built. There is a strain on council funds, so now we have streets with potholes, weeds in gutters and gangs so that pensioners do not feel safe to leave their own homes. I know of several UK families that have decided to go to another country because of what the UK is becoming. @@patrikfloding7985
@@patrikfloding7985 It is basic reasoning, how on earth are you unable to follow it?
So what you are saying is that living standards were better when we had a shared responsibility with immigration when we were a member of the EU... It's good people are now waking up to this fact.
Izloom on the rise
The biggest lesson not learned is that Britain needs to secure its borders and preserve its heritage and way of life. Brexit promised that, and their politicians didn't deliver, even though they would have had the support of the majority.
That indicates a deliberated plan to undermine native Britons.
No no no. You told hard working people from the EU to get lost and now you are seeing the consequences. They listened and have left in droves so live with the fact you are going to have a lot more people from India, Pkaistan and Nigeria.
So are all the people in hotels working ?
Hey up Equinoxliveson , the only people working in the Hotels are the Staff, You’re disgusting Conservative Government won’t allow the Asylum Seekers a bit of dignity by letting them work for their keep ? Also it’s a handy way of stirring the knuckle draggers up ,
Of course Brexit means more non-Europeans: we warned Brexiters that exactly this would happen, and they howled "Project Fear!"
Brexit people prefer african and asian immigration because of our once glorious empire.
@holydrones2328 But I thought those Brexit voters are the ones that feared Turkey gaining EU membership and the potential Turkish immigration.
@@rumourhats,why did Braveman want to deport those people to Rwanda?
@@rumourhatscorrect 😂
Why would Brexit mean more non-europeans? That wouldnt be the case if the UK wasnt still bound by EU rules and what not. The problem is that you guys didnt cut yourself off from the EU cleanly.. there's still strings dangling to the EU.
The interviewer never got an answer to her actual question: "What color are the immigrants that are still able to get through?"
Brexit : the liberty to make your own very poor and bigoted decisons.
Everyone must remember that the Labour Party wants to make it easier for asylum seekers. God help us if they get into power.😮
Funny fact: Asylum seekers is but a small part of the actual immigrants. But you didn't know that, did you?
Funny how after 13 years it still seams that the Labour party is to blame?
@@hugorebelo129 Both the Conservatives and Labour over many decades are to blame. My worry is that if the moderate political parties cannot sort this out some extremist political party will gain power and then we are all in trouble. The Labour Party proposes to build 250k houses and make it easier for people to come to this country. What is the point in building the houses if they are only going to be used indirectly to House immigrants? The Labour Party needs to come up with a credible immigration strategy. This is not sustainable and as I say will lead to extremism. Look what happened in Holland and Sweden.
Asylum seekers can't come here "illegally". Please correct the people saying this.
If it was illegal they would have been arrested 🤡
Big Mistake, Key Lesson It must Be Reversed by 24, The People want there Freedom of Movement Back and My EU rights back, Ok England can go it alone, It what they want. Scotland will be part of the EU.
dream on
Congratulations to Holland 🇳🇱 they are taking back their country for their people
Good luck to you guys next. You have my blessing.
Holland its gone same like germany and france 😂
@@anemikanemik are you Muslim
WE WANT OUT OF THE EU WE WANT BORDERS 🤬
You ARE OUT OF THE EU and ask your Gvt to finally IMPLEMENT border/customs/vet check ups/controls, as agreed to in the TCA the UK has signed with the EU 😎
Greetings from the EU27 and thanks for Brexiting 😅
You always had a border Muppet, you were never in Schengen 🤡
YOU are out of the EU.
But you have to follow our rules otherwise you won't be able to trade with us.