I love how Touga thought Nanami meant preferring girls sexually, while Nanami actually thought about having a baby girl... or that's how I interpret this odd little conversation. 😅🤔😄
i dont think touga is attracted to men, despite it all. i think he sleeps with akio because of the sense of power it gives him. this is how akio manipulates him, giving touga little bits and pieces of power to just give him a taste. given tougas background, it makes sense why he'd be so easily manipulated. saionji, however, i do think is attracted to men, touga in particular. this makes him an easy target for touga to manipulate, touga knows saionji's feelings for him and uses it to his advantage.
i feel like this episode and the whole concept nanami laying an egg was meant to portray her young teen pregnancy and also her miscarriage (small spoiler) After the talk between her and Touga. How Touga shames girl's laying eggs, nanami abandoned the egg in the forest but she then felt guilty about abandoning it, she goes back to the forest and only to find the egg was hatch crack open empty.
I just rewatched this episode recently and you're misremembering; she goes back to the forest, finds the eggs is missing, and then finds that Saionji is frying dozens of eggs one-by-one in the middle of the forest at night. She sees her egg among the ones that haven't been cooked yet, and takes it back. She then has a nightmare about a giant egg hatching, and wakes up to find that the egg hatched while she was asleep. It's later implied that Chu-Chu was inside the egg and Anthy planted it to screw with Nanami. There's definitely some implication of the demonization of teen pregnancy in this scene, but I don't think that's the point of the episode as a whole. The episode emphasizes that her relationship with the egg is a misunderstanding of biology, showing how shielding young teens from sex-ed can end up hurting their development in the long run, resulting in, well, this. Nanami is a character who is depicted as being naive about all things and while she acts like she wants to be in a relationship with her brother... Later on it's very clear that she hasn't given the thought of a sexual relationship with him very much thought, she recoils in fear when she sees Akio's sexual abuse of Anthy and she clearly doesn't want a relationship like that with her brother. This naivety, not understanding how bad the implications of being in such a relationship are, seems to apply to her knowledge of sex as well. "I laid an egg" being her assumption comes across in the same way as "I got pregnant because I held hands with him". It might not even be pregnancy that it's an allegory for either, it makes just as much sense to say that it's a representation of her having her first period without any knowledge of what it is.
I thought it was about getting the first period (and what this means for the body going forward, so almost same). That Anthy put that egg there is maybe also a foreshadowing to her SA? Like why would you prank someone with a type of "fake pregnancy" in symbolic form unless that‘s what you think of yourself often? It’s not a very typical prank. And the egg itself looks pretty much like an easter egg (unless there are similar eggs in a religion or culture I am not familiar with), so maybe there‘s also some christian symbolism implied? Easter eggs are normally a symbol for life and the (spiritual?) resurrection of Jesus dying for the sinners of the world but I have no clue how to tie that back to Utena and why they chose an easter egg over a plain one specifically 😅 Maybe I’m overthinking and it‘s just to symbolize that periods or pregnancy is something to celebrate.
A little late-the laying eggs thing was the result of a prank and Nanami being kiiiiinda ignorant. The episode is an allegory for menarche, a girl's first period. The whole show plays a lot of puns and meanings of things-twisting and deconstructing it. If you watch from the beginning, it would make a good deal more sense. But Nanami's not actually incestuous. She's just a jealous little girl. Now Miki's sister and another two... those are slightly different and weirder stories. The writing crew wanted to explore taboo relationships and why they are taboo. Sibling incest is something that is immediately and obviously taboo. They deliberately chose it so people would understand how unhealthy these relationships are and show how toxic they are. Miki's sister has toxic beliefs, Nanami is ignorant, the third couple is straight up abuse. (Not talking Saionji, that's clearly physical abuse and described as that.) It is not in any way trying to fetishize or legitimize or make acceptable incest.
+Locash Gamer - Not to be overly controversial or annoying but the only explicit incestuous relationship on the show (Akio and Anthy) isn't toxic because it's incest, nor is it portrayed as such - it's toxic because Akio as a person is toxic and this is true in every relationship he enters, including with people he's not related to. I guess it's particularly harmful to Anthy because she's tied to him already, and that would make it a case for it being /worse/ because they're family? Potentially, I don't know. Miki and Kozue have some undertones but at the end of the day it's never an explicitly incestuous relationship, and obviously knowing how the show goes we're all aware that Nanami is not actually romantically or sexually interested in Touga... and everything else about their family situation. Maybe it's just the fact that I don't personally have a stance on incest one way or another (I was always a very skeptical kid, and I never received a legitimate reason to think of it as bad except when external factors that are toxic in non-incestuous relationships anyway are introduced) so that aspect of the show never clicked for me? Utena is very complex and you can draw so many messages from it, I guess that one just wasn't for me to find. I'm not try'na be weird or anything I just saw that comment and went "huh".
Oh, "big brother" is just a respectful epithet in some asian countries, usually translated from 大哥 or お兄ちゃん. You use it for male friends you look up to, kinda like senpai but male specific.
@@catmanmenace i see what youre trying to say and i personally dont like how incest is often lumped with pedophilia as "the worst things you can be" but incest also stops you from meeting new people. The familiarity is a trap, in reality you just dont know that many people (and obviously if youre allosexual and lonely your brain will try to project onto something). Its the same problem with incest historically, the purpouse of it was to isolate your family from the rest, often because you thought it was better. But if you dont think that, and you like someone for their personality (not because theyre easy), and the focus of the relationship is not having children, i dont see anything wrong with it
I can only assume he feels weird living with a girl who went through puberty without being able to have a relationship with her because hes so horny. Also he enjoys gay sex (and knows alot of non straight people) but is morally opposed to it because of religion/how he was raised
Alternatively, if it was a metaphor for teen pregnancy (and not first period) he criticizes her for gettiting pregnant and implies hes not willing to associate with her like this and "live peacefully with her" (could be bc of his reputation or his views on marriage or just fear that she got preg so young and isnt careful)
"No matter how good something may feel... "
Sounds to me that our precious little "big brother" is in denial
Lol i love the detail of birds flying in the background, its like the meaning of what shes saying is "flying over her head"
clown to clown conversation
Best discription for any conversations of the two xD
I love how Touga thought Nanami meant preferring girls sexually, while Nanami actually thought about having a baby girl... or that's how I interpret this odd little conversation. 😅🤔😄
It's funny how Touga is so critical with homosexuals when he seems so gay with Akio and Saionji (don't even know how to write the name correctly).
i dont think touga is attracted to men, despite it all. i think he sleeps with akio because of the sense of power it gives him. this is how akio manipulates him, giving touga little bits and pieces of power to just give him a taste. given tougas background, it makes sense why he'd be so easily manipulated.
saionji, however, i do think is attracted to men, touga in particular. this makes him an easy target for touga to manipulate, touga knows saionji's feelings for him and uses it to his advantage.
What a way to come out..
Me when she asked if I would still love her if she was a worm.
I always loved Nanami’s hair. I always wish she had her bangs down more, though.
NICE GIRLS DONT LAY EGGS
Touga is so hypercritical...
And hypocritical, considering all the men he's slept with...
it gets even sadder if you consider his movie bg to be the same as the show
i feel like this episode and the whole concept nanami laying an egg was meant to portray her young teen pregnancy and also her miscarriage
(small spoiler)
After the talk between her and Touga. How Touga shames girl's laying eggs, nanami abandoned the egg in the forest but she then felt guilty about abandoning it, she goes back to the forest and only to find the egg was hatch crack open empty.
I just rewatched this episode recently and you're misremembering; she goes back to the forest, finds the eggs is missing, and then finds that Saionji is frying dozens of eggs one-by-one in the middle of the forest at night. She sees her egg among the ones that haven't been cooked yet, and takes it back. She then has a nightmare about a giant egg hatching, and wakes up to find that the egg hatched while she was asleep. It's later implied that Chu-Chu was inside the egg and Anthy planted it to screw with Nanami.
There's definitely some implication of the demonization of teen pregnancy in this scene, but I don't think that's the point of the episode as a whole. The episode emphasizes that her relationship with the egg is a misunderstanding of biology, showing how shielding young teens from sex-ed can end up hurting their development in the long run, resulting in, well, this. Nanami is a character who is depicted as being naive about all things and while she acts like she wants to be in a relationship with her brother... Later on it's very clear that she hasn't given the thought of a sexual relationship with him very much thought, she recoils in fear when she sees Akio's sexual abuse of Anthy and she clearly doesn't want a relationship like that with her brother. This naivety, not understanding how bad the implications of being in such a relationship are, seems to apply to her knowledge of sex as well. "I laid an egg" being her assumption comes across in the same way as "I got pregnant because I held hands with him". It might not even be pregnancy that it's an allegory for either, it makes just as much sense to say that it's a representation of her having her first period without any knowledge of what it is.
I thought it was about getting the first period (and what this means for the body going forward, so almost same). That Anthy put that egg there is maybe also a foreshadowing to her SA? Like why would you prank someone with a type of "fake pregnancy" in symbolic form unless that‘s what you think of yourself often? It’s not a very typical prank. And the egg itself looks pretty much like an easter egg (unless there are similar eggs in a religion or culture I am not familiar with), so maybe there‘s also some christian symbolism implied? Easter eggs are normally a symbol for life and the (spiritual?) resurrection of Jesus dying for the sinners of the world but I have no clue how to tie that back to Utena and why they chose an easter egg over a plain one specifically 😅
Maybe I’m overthinking and it‘s just to symbolize that periods or pregnancy is something to celebrate.
Let's go homophobia is canon!
I like watching this without the metaphor.😂
Dunno what's more hilarious, the nonsensical talk or the birds behind the window, reacting to the conversation.
There’s too much happening in 1min and 37 seconds
I've never seen this show... What the dink?!?! Laying eggs? Incest??
A little late-the laying eggs thing was the result of a prank and Nanami being kiiiiinda ignorant. The episode is an allegory for menarche, a girl's first period. The whole show plays a lot of puns and meanings of things-twisting and deconstructing it.
If you watch from the beginning, it would make a good deal more sense. But Nanami's not actually incestuous. She's just a jealous little girl. Now Miki's sister and another two... those are slightly different and weirder stories.
The writing crew wanted to explore taboo relationships and why they are taboo. Sibling incest is something that is immediately and obviously taboo. They deliberately chose it so people would understand how unhealthy these relationships are and show how toxic they are. Miki's sister has toxic beliefs, Nanami is ignorant, the third couple is straight up abuse. (Not talking Saionji, that's clearly physical abuse and described as that.)
It is not in any way trying to fetishize or legitimize or make acceptable incest.
+Locash Gamer - Not to be overly controversial or annoying but the only explicit incestuous relationship on the show (Akio and Anthy) isn't toxic because it's incest, nor is it portrayed as such - it's toxic because Akio as a person is toxic and this is true in every relationship he enters, including with people he's not related to. I guess it's particularly harmful to Anthy because she's tied to him already, and that would make it a case for it being /worse/ because they're family? Potentially, I don't know.
Miki and Kozue have some undertones but at the end of the day it's never an explicitly incestuous relationship, and obviously knowing how the show goes we're all aware that Nanami is not actually romantically or sexually interested in Touga... and everything else about their family situation.
Maybe it's just the fact that I don't personally have a stance on incest one way or another (I was always a very skeptical kid, and I never received a legitimate reason to think of it as bad except when external factors that are toxic in non-incestuous relationships anyway are introduced) so that aspect of the show never clicked for me? Utena is very complex and you can draw so many messages from it, I guess that one just wasn't for me to find.
I'm not try'na be weird or anything I just saw that comment and went "huh".
Oh, "big brother" is just a respectful epithet in some asian countries, usually translated from 大哥 or お兄ちゃん. You use it for male friends you look up to, kinda like senpai but male specific.
@@catmanmenace i see what youre trying to say and i personally dont like how incest is often lumped with pedophilia as "the worst things you can be" but incest also stops you from meeting new people. The familiarity is a trap, in reality you just dont know that many people (and obviously if youre allosexual and lonely your brain will try to project onto something). Its the same problem with incest historically, the purpouse of it was to isolate your family from the rest, often because you thought it was better. But if you dont think that, and you like someone for their personality (not because theyre easy), and the focus of the relationship is not having children, i dont see anything wrong with it
@@BattleCattleSA...He's actually her brother in the show
Eggs are something you normally eat
"we have been able to live happily together because you are a girl who doesnt lay eggs"...wat
0:57 "Going against God's plan is-" the very last thing anyone should give a shit about.
WHAT IS THE SONGS MELODY?? I've been trying to figure it out for days
What was he implying
That she's lesbian
I can only assume he feels weird living with a girl who went through puberty without being able to have a relationship with her because hes so horny. Also he enjoys gay sex (and knows alot of non straight people) but is morally opposed to it because of religion/how he was raised
Alternatively, if it was a metaphor for teen pregnancy (and not first period) he criticizes her for gettiting pregnant and implies hes not willing to associate with her like this and "live peacefully with her" (could be bc of his reputation or his views on marriage or just fear that she got preg so young and isnt careful)
Aaaaghhh! stupid homophobic touga! XD
Aw, shit, she be wantin babies with her brother!
No she dont
She doesn't