The pontus apparently have been updated to sound better than it was before so people with older pontus units may have a different experience. Denafrips is a Chinese Manufacture and perhaps that is why they are able to keep the cost down of an R2R Dac that typically takes more labor to make. Although it is manufactured in China, it is sold and represented/backed by a familiar name in the audio industry "Vinshine Audio" from singapore www.denafrips.com/pontus Where to buy: www.vinshineaudio.com/shop PS. Blind AB test was for fun. its extremely hard to do a full on blind ab test of course and nobody is claiming this to be a perfect blind ab test. Disclaimer/ Personal interest in my reviews - nbtsmedia.com/about-us/
I bought my Pontus from a friend who upgraded to a Holo May 😂 lucky me, and I hear everything you said about the Pontus. The Hugo2 I had before by comparison is like a 55 inch TV to a 12 ft screen with the Pontus. It is visceral, liquid, holographic with a deep, deep soundstage. Taller if I can treat my back wall. This is the best bang for the money for a DAC of this or any other technology at the moment. IMHO, YMMV. But it is definitely worth a try!
I'm a big fan of Denafrips. I own the Terminator and gave my son the Aries II for his birthday. I agree with all your points. I mostly listen to vinyl but I'm enjoying my Terminator very much.
@@skipgordon5382 that's great to hear from such a generous father. To continue with the same analogy I think your Terminator must be at least a 200" with 70mm 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@@skipgordon5382 negative comments towards you have been removed as this channel has zero tolerance for negativity and as per our comment section policy "don't say anything if you can't keep it positive" cheers and please keep spreading the audiophile passion !
@@Jayiyagi thanks Jay - I follow your post closely. I have enjoyed the special details of music for over 50 years and try to share some of my experiences with my sons. Keep up the good work. I am especially fond of tubes and Tannoy speakers.
Jay, happy to say I recently bought and just received the Pontus. This is the second item I have purchased from your reviews. The first is the Willsenton R8. Loving them both! Nice work. I was set on the Ares II. But the deal I came across on this model made it a no-brainer! Even though I considered the other popular brand dacs(chip) out there I went with the Denafrips strictly for the R2R structure and it's analog sound. This journey of mine began in the 1970's. I so miss the brick and mortar stores but thankfully there are reviewers out there to lend there honest opinion and advice and yours is appreciated! As we use to say in the 70's "Keep on Truckin"
One of the only reviewers in the industry to sit in front of a camera and say it how it is. No bullshit and straight to the point. If you aren’t subbed to Jay, you’re sleeping. Case closed. Love you Jay 😘🍑 (and Thujan too)
I have the Pontus and it is everything you say it is. However, I prefer the OS on with the slow filter engaged and because of the sound of the high end. The difference may be in the system matching possibilities. It is the first DAC that I enjoy as much as my vinyl system. It is impressive for the money.
I have the Ares II with Klipsch floorstanders and the difference I heard was readily apparent as well. Sweeter highs, solid body throughout mids and upper bass...just more enjoyable overall from the usual digital glare. It didn't remove all artifacts and hash, the "garbage in" rule still applies, but it does make a more analog-like presentation. Nice job on your review. I liked the blind test at the end.
Just got the Venus II delivered because the pontus was out. So glad I got it. So far it is phenomenal. Replaced a Topping dac that ASR had in their top 5 measuring. Proved to me that measurements are only part of the story. Venus II is my end game(for now)
My heart is between the Pontus and the Venus. The Venus seems more refined. But I have a good system but I don’t have a high end system, I am not sure to be able to completely appreciate it.
I have a lot of great chip DACs like the Bryston, Oppo and Nuprime along with a Denafrips Venus. When I know I will be listening for hours, the Venus is my go to DAC. It just seems far more organic and has no digital glare.
@champer slimmerthannone That's the million dollar question, isn't it? I think chip DAC's can't do nuance and dynamics as well as R2R. Treble gets saturated on a chip DAC and you end up with digital glare. R2R just seems to differentiate dynamics and nuance better.
Do you think I need a High End system to be able to appreciate the Venus or the Pontus. I already have an integrated amplifier (Atoll In 200 signature) with a AK4490. Does a Denafrips DACC will improve the sound ?
@@ramalingam108 You will absolutely notice a difference. Denafrips r2r ladder dacs deliver a more natural presentation that is closer to good analog like vinyl or reel to reel.
Great review - your conclusions line up with many others. I found your’s particularly interesting because I am currently using the internal DAC of the Innuos Zen Mini. I like that you both were able to hear a clear difference, and I like the description of the overall sound - what I’m wanting in my system versus the Uber-resolution.
I have a rather limited budget and was thinking about the Ares II on my NAD C165BEE & C275BEE combo, but this one also is very tempting. I really love analogue sound, no sibillance, warmth, emotion....
You need to listen to the Audiobyte Hydra Vox Dac. It will truly blow your mind for what it can do at it's price point. It's built by the guys at Rockna Audio. Well worth reviewing if you can get hold of one. Keep up the great videos Jay. 👍
I looked into it before I got my Terminator. I read many good reviews. Separate power supply needed and to get the full benefits it is a three piece purchase. I question why they chose to not make it a standard size audio chassis. Most are about 42 cm wide.
@@skipgordon5382 You don't need to buy the Hub to get the full benefits of the Hydra Vox Dac. It works perfectly well as a standalone dac / digital preamp. Also has a fabulous headphone amp for those that want it. The separate power supply was an added bonus to me tbh.
Great and very precise review as always! Will you review the remaining Denafrips DAC's? I would especially be interested in a review of the Denafrips Venus.
Great review. I went from an Ares II to a Terminator. Wonderful analog tone. But, then I auditioned an Audio GD R7 (2020 version), and I have to say that the Audio GD sounds more "analog" to me and is more enjoyable for long listening sessions. I bought the Audio GD and it replaced the Terminator which I moved to my second system in my bedroom. Still love the Terminator but the R7 is my favorite, at least right now.
@@Jayiyagi One man's neutral is another man's natural. Having been a musician for 50 years I think that instruments played through the R7 sound like the instruments that I've been playing for 50 years, especially piano which is hard to do for a DAC. More like the real thing. More "natural." The Terminator sounds more modern to me, an idealized modern take on "natural." My wife likes the Terminator better, so there you go.
@@cosmonaut9942 Very interested if you would elaborate? For me a lot of hifi has a leanness and forwardness in the upper mids, that I find pretty unnatural, which my Ares II seems to exhibit (though I realize its likely also a matching thing). Especially for piano and vocals, lack of proper weight in the lower midrange/first harmonic is a deal breaker. FWIW I was a musician through childhood and the first part of my adult career.
Do you have any experience with the Benchmark DAC3 HGC how does it compare? I’ve been looking for a quality good price DAC and this benchmark has a lot of positive user reviews.
When did you get the Pontus? Reason I ask is because when they offered to me to review recently, they said changes were made and it is closer to the terminator now.
@Thomas & Stereo : I purchased last year . May be a year ago. Built quality and sound was good at that time according to my expectations . With my recent upgrades, It didn’t pair well with my Yamaha as3200. Due to its high output signal by xlr. Also I tried via RCA. I invested huge chunk of money on my Ocean Way Audio eureka speakers and Yamaha AS3200 .. and it didn’t meet my expectations. I was little frustrated.. what was wrong .. after tons of research.. I purchased RME dac .... blown by sound of my system . I even I was ready to trigger on PS audio . After listening RME , I ended Dac search. Audio thing is tricky part ..as per my experience great reviews /money will not give great sound.
I owned the RME ADI-2 and sold it, the earlier version with short remote. I compared the RME with my Parasound P6, 2 different chip types. The RME sounded much cleaner than the P6, but the P6 has better stereo image separation. The RME was kind of summing together. This was also mentioned on other threads I read. I now own the McIntosh C53 with DA2 DAC in it which sounds better than both.
It is amazing that these companies can keep improving their products as you go up their product line despite the fact that you can't really measure the difference. All the words you used to describe these products are not measurable, yet they're there. It just goes to show that measurements are pointless and misleading. You have to hear the products and make out the differences yourself.
@Der Kasse the point is not to base purchase decisions mostly on measurements but mostly on how something sounds. Of course basing a purchase decision on one review is also dumb, and I agree the onus is on the purchaser to do his homework.
I bought this DAC based on this review. Along with a pair of ZMF Verite headphones... and a ampsandsound Leeloo Tube amp.. all for Cyberpunk 2077.. I think I've lost my mind.
Imho the HD800 with a few tweaks, a $1000 tube amp and a ZxR soundcard is about as good as it gets for gaming. After that it's diminishing returns. But your setup is certainly cool.
@@shingnosis after comparing the ZMF Verite to the HD800S and my old setup as of a week ago, the ZMF Verite blows it away in every aspect (except a very minor difference in the WIDE aspect of soundstage, but makes up for it). Especially with some good mullard tubes. Soundstage is slightly wider on the HD800S but as far as height / depth and 3D holographic sound - the ZMF Verite just completely slaughters it in every aspect but without having to deal with the harsh high peaks that the HD800S has. After 30 minutes with the Verite, not even being broken in (Lots of users report they need a large break in period) I was already throwing the HD800S up on Ebay, just no reason to keep them as they just sound inferior in almost every way compared to the Verite at the beginning. They're not bad, but they don't give you near as an immersive experience with the Verite. Not to mention the bass and mids, which is in a whole different league. As far as diminishing returns go, that was my main worry with pulling the plug on the Verite.. but I can definitely say, they offer so much of a different, musical and immersive sound that there is no way I could say these have diminishing returns on them.
Hi Jay. Congrats for this great review. I perfectly understand how it feels when the DAC presents you the sound in such a manner, that takes you to a whole new dimension and sensorial experience. It is not only pleasing your ears by sounding good, but also getting you nailed in the listening position and being almost impossible to hit the "Next track" button. I felt transposed into something unreal and so hard to describe in all its details. All these happened with Rockna Wavelight dac. I'm 36 now and definitely convinced this is the last dac I'm willing to own. Highly recommend you to test one. I owned Chord Qutest, Rme Adi-2FS, Nuprime's Dac-9, Dac-10H, also tested in my system Sabaj D5, Topping D90, Matrix X Sabre Pro, Msb Analog Dac. None of these mentioned were even close to the Rockna experience.
Adding the Pontus ii to my Vintage/Modern mix of Luxman R1120a + Cambridge Audio CXN v2+KEF Ref 2 system was the best decision - kicks some serious audio nirvana ass!!
Great video Jay. Completely agree with your take on PSUs. Can't take any product which uses a wall wart seriously. Power must be cleaned and smoothed properly before it gets anywhere near the signal path. I notice the DAC not only goes for discrete power supplies, it also has large arrays of small caps as opposed to a couple of pairs of large ones. Very good indeed. I take it the power supplies are separated between the analogue and digital sides of the DAC, rather than left and right channels?
Hi shan19key. My Pontus arrived yesterday. I'm impressed but as you say it needs burn in time, it's a bit bright at the top end just now and at times seems restrained. How long did yours take?
Your reviews provide great insights on the sound characteristics of products. Question: How does Pontus compare to the DAC in Hegel H390? Do you think using Pontus into analog inputs of H390 will improve sound quality further? Appreciate your advice. Thanks.
Asif, I can not answer your question directly as I do not have that DAC. However, I do have H390 and Chord Mojo and have them tested vs the H390 internal DAC yesterday . The mojo sounds better, better staging, warmer. As I read someone talked about this DAC is better than Chord qutest which is supposed better than Mojo, I’m really interested to try now
@@peterguo3395 Thanks Peter. I'm Disappointed. I was hoping H390 would beat at least a $1000 DAC. Do let me know about Pontus if you get your hands on one. What speakers have you paired with H390 if I may ask?
Very much respect for doing a double blind test and showing the reveal. My only comment is that you should not be in the room when the switches were made (don't know if you were) and you should have more than two participants to get a better statistically confident result. For example, you must have at least 4 participants to have a 50% confidence (a toss up) of a 95% confidence level. To bring this into a real statistically significant result, i. e. 5% confidence in a 95% confident result, you need 384 participants. That isn't likely for you probably so relaxing the confidence interval to 20% let's you get away with 24 participants, great number for a party!
My Hugo2 sounds the same as the Qutest, the friend I got my Pontus from in fact had the Qutest. It was not very hard to hear a difference when he switched his Qutest to the Pontus. He has the May now, it is also a very good DAC, but I think it will need a bit of work to bring out its best.
@@t.j.bennett6454 sorry, I thought it was obvious that the Pontus is vastly superior. The current ability to manufacture such technology (discrete R2R) at this price level is game-changing IMHO. Here's from my earlier post elsewhere on this thread, "The Hugo2 I had before, by comparison, is like a 55 inch TV to a 12 ft screen with the Pontus. It is visceral, liquid, holographic with a deep, deep soundstage. Taller if I can treat my back wall. This is the best bang for the money for a DAC of this or any other technology at the moment. IMHO, YMMV. But it is definitely worth a try!"
@@t.j.bennett6454 I hear you, I have a good set of headphones that I enjoy off the main rig too. The Burson is certainly beautifully made, and the Conductor seems to have everything all together and then some... IMHO a built-in DAC eventually won't satisfy your headphones or speakers. Personally, I have a Schiit MJ2 with the Pontus. The Schiit has tubes, balanced (pre), RCA (pre), and balanced headphone output. The Pontus/Denafrips uses discrete Surface Mount Devices to build their R2R ladders. That makes a big difference, that's what makes them sound so much better.
Does the ares 2 dac have a very noticeable bigger more buttery liquidy smoother soundstage and more detail retrieval in the higher registries than topping D 90? Or is it something that I really have to do an A.B. comparison and really really listen super hard to see the little differences I’m looking for a noticeable difference without having to really look for it so hard. And what about this versus the D 90 as well even so a bigger gap I suppose in the same regard that I’m asking? 🙏🤘🥇 Rock on man!
Looks good - like a modern and significantly cheaper version of my Wadia 15 DAC, the black brushed, the led for each option, no buttons on the front. And yes analogue sounding but with digital details.
Hi Jay, Per your recommendation I purchased the Elac Vela and it sounds great with my Prima Luna Prologue Premium Integrated tube amp. Not sure which DAC, Ares II or the Pontus, would best suit my system. What a good problem to have. Please chime in if you have a direction I should think about. Thanks for all the great reviews and content
What is the best streamer to be paired with this that is cheaper than the Pontus itself (i believe that the DAC should be much more expensive than the streamer). I was supposed to get the Node 2i but i've read that the Node 2i's digital out is weak and will hamper the denafrips pontus (as per Hans Beekhuyzen).
Lindemann Limetree - much better than Node 2i, and surely in the connectivity department. Even the latest Node, technically Node 3, has connectivity issues. Limetree Bridge is just a bit more, but totally different. Bifrost Schiit or Denafrips Ares II will be great with Limetree.
Thank you for the review, you do a great job of describing the differences in presentation. It is really easy to follow and possible to get a reasonably vivid image of how the component you are reviewing fits into the market in terms of sound. Any plans for taking a look at the amps made by Denafrips (e.g. Thallo and Athena)? They seem like good value and it would be nice if they could bring the same price to performance Denafrips is known for in the DAC domain to amplifiers as well. Zerofidelity did a review a while back of their entry level amp/pre-amp so it would be great to hear your thoughts on what their current top-end amplifiers are like.
I think it will be gret if someone could review the sound performance of varous input such as USB-PC, Optical, Coaxial, I2S, AES. Sure there are difference in sound quality but what is the difference?
some people say the Aries is too soft? this may be a better option. i am looking to replace my venerable NAD D1050. wish Singapore would open up so that i could hear one. how would this sound with strings?
Hey wish we could talk. Love your channel by the way. I’m curious How would it compare this to the doge 7 ii? I have it now after your review. I’m very interested in the Isquare input now.
I current use a digital volume control with my 32 bit Sabre DAC but do you think it would work OK with the Pontus ? Does Pontus have enough bit depth for DVC ?
It would be helpful to have a everyman's base to compare dacs/transports to. I have an Oppo 105 that I purchased new, which I only used for SACD/DVD-As and a Marantz HD CD-1 as a transport connecting to a Audio Alchemy DDP-1 (dac/pre). Eventually, I came across replacement LPM on eBay and a Furutech IEC with silver wire tail that plugs into the OEM and new board. The resultant sound is so good I eliminated the AA dac/pre and the Marantz. 105 I bought new $995, aftermarket parts < $350. I no longer use either my AA or the Marantz, which also eliminates 2 power cords, and cables. Approximate savings $3K
Jay, I'm a subscriber to your channel and considering buying a Pontus. However, I have read that improvements from the Ares, which I now have, are accompanied by a loss of warmth. I have Klipsch IV speakers. If there is a loss of warmth upgrading to the Pontus, depending on the amount, might impact my system's SQ adversely. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this. Your channel is a must-read for me. Many thanks.
I have both ares2 and pontus 2. The pontus 2 doesn't lack the warmth in comparison to the ares 2. It may seem to some that it does because the pontus 2 is more balanced in areas of resolution, authority, maturity etc. So the warmth in the pontus 2 isn't as obvious.
Hi, I really enjoy your videos. Thanks for all the candid comments My speaker is Wilson benesch Arc, do you think it’s a good match with Pontus. My preamp is Schitt Frey’s+ , power amp Schiit Aegir (x2) . Thank you
Oh yes if thats within the budget you have in mind. For your speakers and system, it may benefit more from the terminator or the plus. Nice speakers btw !
Last week it was a $5K DAC. This week $2300 (you said under $2 grand, apparently the price gone up after the video). You're working in the right direction. Keep it up ☺️👍 I have no DAC and I'm sort of a DAC agnostic but if a really good one came out for less price than my receiver, I might try it. However, I don't have a clue how you go about integrating it into the system.
Hi Jae, congrats for the detailed reviews, especially Vintage audio. About dacs, and streamers, actually I am playing a Luxmann 507 with a pair of Kef R11, I listen all kind of music, forma 70´s Pink Floyd to comtemporary electrónic music. Can you give me a recomendation for a good streamer and DAC to pair with this set? Best Regards.
Great review! Interesting point about the resolution of the speakers as a limiting factor of whether or not to upgrade your DAC. Do you think a Hegel H120 + Totem towers is enough to justify a Pontus? The Hegel inbuilt DAC is great, but I’m intrigued by what Denafrips is doing.
Great review Jay. I purchased the Willsenton R8 tube amp with EL34 tubes following your excellent review and I absolutely love the amp - so much better than my vintage Naim pre/power. Would the Pontus work well with the Willsenton?
@@Jayiyagi I Thought you might say that! Well your Willsenton recommendation was spot on. I can't thank you enough for that one, I'm totally nuts about how the Willsenton has made such a massive improvement to my music enjoyment. Now I need to start saving again!
Great review! What headphone amplifier would match the Pontus in terms of sound quality and otherwise be on equal footing? I don’t have hard to drive headphones, I’m just looking for something that will pair nicely with the Pontus” quality.
Hi soulsik! How does the Pontus compare with the MSB dac? Is this marginally better than the Ares ll? You highly Praise the ares ll DAC in terms of performance and value... is it the same with the Pontus?
I have seen much live and hate for R2Rs in forums, could you disect that abit about your experience between the factvthat R2Rs often times test very badly but sound good and vice verse for delta sigma dacs. Other than that..always love your reviews.
I have both and the Pontus is the better DAC by quite some margin. One thing with Pontus though is it is quite bright at the top end. I've had mine playing for nearly a week now and it is only just starting to flatten out a bit. Everything else is superior to the D90 ( which for the money is a great DAC ). On a personal note I hope it continues to calm down because it's not what I expected and I'm finding it a bit fatiguing after a while listening.
How it looks like compare denafrips terminator II r2r or venus II r2r vs dcs debussy? Did you test Chord Qutest with Farrad vs Denafrips Pontus II (which cost very simmilar)? For me Qutest with Farrad sounds much better than Hugo TT.
I’m using Qutest with Farad Super3 since 1 yr in my setup. And bought a Pontus 2 a week ago, comparing both. Similar depth of soundstage, Pontus wilder soundstage, good with ALL music. Qutest - Farad impresses more, ‘fidelity’ seems a bit higher, details draw a bit more attention. Pontus draws as much attention to everything, more even. Bass is very deep and powerfull and a bit quicker, and stops quicker too on the Qutest. Pontus as powerful and deep and to be short: very good. But Qutest - Farad has the edge by a little. Pontus generally more pleasing sound. Qutest more accurate / precise / scalpel wise bit without sounding too analytical. Very 3d als well, as the Pontus, for sure. Certainly with the Farad. Don’t know yet wich one I’m going to keep… Certainly two fantastic DAC’s, that’s for sure.
I really like that you outlined what you do and don't get from this DAC. If the sound profile isn't what you're looking for then it will not make you happy. I also like how you compared it to other products out there. It's a jungle of DACs being released.
Hey Jay, thanks for the review. Very interested in getting the Areas II or Pontus. Near the end of the video, you mentioned Benchmark. How would you compare the Pontus to Benchmark DAC3 (which is very well received and I personally liked a lot)? Thanks!
Hi, Jay what is that electric music what you have mentioned? Are you planning to make a review about the Anthem STR integrated Canadian amplifier? I would love to hear your thoughts about that gear! I think is a good amp, but not really popular and I don't know why..? Thanks, hugs! 🍻 Regards, Zoltan
Just a suggestion, if you're calling out the name of the device before you've "checked" that indicates a bias, and therefore a not so blind blind test, otherwise a great video, and I would love to see you compile your 5 award winning components. Keep up the great work
I have a Schiit Yggdrasil, which advertises that they keep the original samples and interpolate additional samples between them, they do oversample though. I wonder if you have had a chance to compare the Yggdrasil and the Pontus?
The pontus apparently have been updated to sound better than it was before so people with older pontus units may have a different experience. Denafrips is a Chinese Manufacture and perhaps that is why they are able to keep the cost down of an R2R Dac that typically takes more labor to make. Although it is manufactured in China, it is sold and represented/backed by a familiar name in the audio industry "Vinshine Audio" from singapore
www.denafrips.com/pontus
Where to buy: www.vinshineaudio.com/shop
PS. Blind AB test was for fun. its extremely hard to do a full on blind ab test of course and nobody is claiming this to be a perfect blind ab test.
Disclaimer/ Personal interest in my reviews - nbtsmedia.com/about-us/
I bought my Pontus from a friend who upgraded to a Holo May 😂 lucky me, and I hear everything you said about the Pontus. The Hugo2 I had before by comparison is like a 55 inch TV to a 12 ft screen with the Pontus. It is visceral, liquid, holographic with a deep, deep soundstage. Taller if I can treat my back wall. This is the best bang for the money for a DAC of this or any other technology at the moment. IMHO, YMMV. But it is definitely worth a try!
I'm a big fan of Denafrips. I own the Terminator and gave my son the Aries II for his birthday. I agree with all your points. I mostly listen to vinyl but I'm enjoying my Terminator very much.
@@skipgordon5382 that's great to hear from such a generous father. To continue with the same analogy I think your Terminator must be at least a 200" with 70mm 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
@@skipgordon5382 negative comments towards you have been removed as this channel has zero tolerance for negativity and as per our comment section policy "don't say anything if you can't keep it positive" cheers and please keep spreading the audiophile passion !
@@Jayiyagi thanks Jay - I follow your post closely. I have enjoyed the special details of music for over 50 years and try to share some of my experiences with my sons. Keep up the good work. I am especially fond of tubes and Tannoy speakers.
Jay, happy to say I recently bought and just received the Pontus. This is the second item I have purchased from your reviews. The first is the Willsenton R8. Loving them both! Nice work. I was set on the Ares II. But the deal I came across on this model made it a no-brainer! Even though I considered the other popular brand dacs(chip) out there I went with the Denafrips strictly for the R2R structure and it's analog sound. This journey of mine began in the 1970's. I so miss the brick and mortar stores but thankfully there are reviewers out there to lend there honest opinion and advice and yours is appreciated! As we use to say in the 70's "Keep on Truckin"
It suport gaming ?
One of the only reviewers in the industry to sit in front of a camera and say it how it is. No bullshit and straight to the point. If you aren’t subbed to Jay, you’re sleeping. Case closed. Love you Jay 😘🍑 (and Thujan too)
Don't forget zero fidelity and new record day 🙏🏻👍🏻
I have the Pontus and it is everything you say it is. However, I prefer the OS on with the slow filter engaged and because of the sound of the high end. The difference may be in the system matching possibilities. It is the first DAC that I enjoy as much as my vinyl system. It is impressive for the money.
Hey. Like I said. If its there why not try it. Dont listen to the os hater !
Great review! You get better and better! Love to see your tracks reviewed on each video!
I have the Ares II with Klipsch floorstanders and the difference I heard was readily apparent as well. Sweeter highs, solid body throughout mids and upper bass...just more enjoyable overall from the usual digital glare. It didn't remove all artifacts and hash, the "garbage in" rule still applies, but it does make a more analog-like presentation.
Nice job on your review. I liked the blind test at the end.
Can I use it for gaming ?
Just got the Venus II delivered because the pontus was out. So glad I got it. So far it is phenomenal. Replaced a Topping dac that ASR had in their top 5 measuring. Proved to me that measurements are only part of the story. Venus II is my end game(for now)
My heart is between the Pontus and the Venus. The Venus seems more refined. But I have a good system but I don’t have a high end system, I am not sure to be able to completely appreciate it.
Venus vs Topping? 😂
The Pontus is a great upgrade. I agree with your comments. Thks for the recommendation.
received my Pontus II yesterday and can confirm every word you say. The best DAC I ever heard, big dynamic 3-dimensional sound, just fantastic!
Can I use it for gaming ?
Blind A/B testing!! I double dare other reviewers to start doing this. Big respect, Jay!
Its not a perfect test but its smth I tried since my mother can plug simple stuff in lol
ABX or dont bother
I have a lot of great chip DACs like the Bryston, Oppo and Nuprime along with a Denafrips Venus. When I know I will be listening for hours, the Venus is my go to DAC. It just seems far more organic and has no digital glare.
@champer slimmerthannone That's the million dollar question, isn't it? I think chip DAC's can't do nuance and dynamics as well as R2R. Treble gets saturated on a chip DAC and you end up with digital glare. R2R just seems to differentiate dynamics and nuance better.
Do you think I need a High End system to be able to appreciate the Venus or the Pontus. I already have an integrated amplifier (Atoll In 200 signature) with a AK4490. Does a Denafrips DACC will improve the sound ?
@@ramalingam108 You will absolutely notice a difference. Denafrips r2r ladder dacs deliver a more natural presentation that is closer to good analog like vinyl or reel to reel.
Nice production Jay! Great to see you are learning from the masters.... well done indeed. Highly entertaining.
Lighting check, audio check, set check, presentation check. Great production.
❣️⭐️🌞 M.O.M. certified A-B test: *C H E C K* 🌞⭐️❣️
Thanks Jay! Vids are sooooo good of quality these days
its the 5am coffee power !
@@Jayiyagi Jay, I've noticed the jump in quality as well. On a serious note, do you attribute this to the 5am wake up and increased productivity?
@@divertiti no hahahaha
@@Jayiyagi cheers!
Now this is a EXCELLENT review without regard to the product reviewed. Nice job !
Great review - your conclusions line up with many others. I found your’s particularly interesting because I am currently using the internal DAC of the Innuos Zen Mini. I like that you both were able to hear a clear difference, and I like the description of the overall sound - what I’m wanting in my system versus the Uber-resolution.
Yes but Jay, you get 'Best hair style' Award !
I have a rather limited budget and was thinking about the Ares II on my
NAD C165BEE & C275BEE combo, but this one also is very tempting.
I really love analogue sound, no sibillance, warmth, emotion....
You need to listen to the Audiobyte Hydra Vox Dac. It will truly blow your mind for what it can do at it's price point. It's built by the guys at Rockna Audio. Well worth reviewing if you can get hold of one. Keep up the great videos Jay. 👍
Wavelight is similar in price is it not?
Where to get/listen it in Canada? Seems that Rockna’s top model is one of the best DACs despite any price point...
I looked into it before I got my Terminator. I read many good reviews. Separate power supply needed and to get the full benefits it is a three piece purchase. I question why they chose to not make it a standard size audio chassis. Most are about 42 cm wide.
@@skipgordon5382 You don't need to buy the Hub to get the full benefits of the Hydra Vox Dac. It works perfectly well as a standalone dac / digital preamp. Also has a fabulous headphone amp for those that want it. The separate power supply was an added bonus to me tbh.
@@markflower8885 thanks - I thought it was required. Good to know
Great and very precise review as always!
Will you review the remaining Denafrips DAC's?
I would especially be interested in a review of the Denafrips Venus.
Great review. I went from an Ares II to a Terminator. Wonderful analog tone. But, then I auditioned an Audio GD R7 (2020 version), and I have to say that the Audio GD sounds more "analog" to me and is more enjoyable for long listening sessions. I bought the Audio GD and it replaced the Terminator which I moved to my second system in my bedroom. Still love the Terminator but the R7 is my favorite, at least right now.
Interesting. I always found R7 to be quite neutral sounding. Thanks for the input ! Rock on
@@Jayiyagi One man's neutral is another man's natural. Having been a musician for 50 years I think that instruments played through the R7 sound like the instruments that I've been playing for 50 years, especially piano which is hard to do for a DAC. More like the real thing. More "natural." The Terminator sounds more modern to me, an idealized modern take on "natural." My wife likes the Terminator better, so there you go.
@@cosmonaut9942 right on ! Cheers
@@cosmonaut9942 Very interested if you would elaborate? For me a lot of hifi has a leanness and forwardness in the upper mids, that I find pretty unnatural, which my Ares II seems to exhibit (though I realize its likely also a matching thing). Especially for piano and vocals, lack of proper weight in the lower midrange/first harmonic is a deal breaker. FWIW I was a musician through childhood and the first part of my adult career.
goddamn it your channel is just incredible, such gripping narrative.
Do you have any experience with the Benchmark DAC3 HGC how does it compare? I’ve been looking for a quality good price DAC and this benchmark has a lot of positive user reviews.
Really good review man! Keep it up.
I really enjoyed Pontus over my blue sound node 2i in build dac . Then I recently tried RME dac. Hands down ..RME simply out classed the Pontus.
I owned the Pontus but it didn’t deliver. I am playing with the Metrum Acoustics Amethyst DAC which is much more layered and detailed and cheaper!
Another VERY happy RME owner here (ADI-2)!!
When did you get the Pontus? Reason I ask is because when they offered to me to review recently, they said changes were made and it is closer to the terminator now.
@Thomas & Stereo : I purchased last year . May be a year ago. Built quality and sound was good at that time according to my expectations . With my recent upgrades, It didn’t pair well with my Yamaha as3200. Due to its high output signal by xlr. Also I tried via RCA. I invested huge chunk of money on my Ocean Way Audio eureka speakers and Yamaha AS3200 .. and it didn’t meet my expectations. I was little frustrated.. what was wrong .. after tons of research.. I purchased RME dac .... blown by sound of my system . I even I was ready to trigger on PS audio . After listening RME , I ended Dac search. Audio thing is tricky part ..as per my experience great reviews /money will not give great sound.
I owned the RME ADI-2 and sold it, the earlier version with short remote. I compared the RME with my Parasound P6, 2 different chip types. The RME sounded much cleaner than the P6, but the P6 has better stereo image separation. The RME was kind of summing together. This was also mentioned on other threads I read. I now own the McIntosh C53 with DA2 DAC in it which sounds better than both.
It is amazing that these companies can keep improving their products as you go up their product line despite the fact that you can't really measure the difference. All the words you used to describe these products are not measurable, yet they're there. It just goes to show that measurements are pointless and misleading. You have to hear the products and make out the differences yourself.
100% agree - the measurements junkies are a strange crowd.
@Der Kasse the point is not to base purchase decisions mostly on measurements but mostly on how something sounds. Of course basing a purchase decision on one review is also dumb, and I agree the onus is on the purchaser to do his homework.
Great review I like when you review more affordable items that the real world can afford. Thanks for sharing.
I bought this DAC based on this review. Along with a pair of ZMF Verite headphones... and a ampsandsound Leeloo Tube amp.. all for Cyberpunk 2077.. I think I've lost my mind.
Imho the HD800 with a few tweaks, a $1000 tube amp and a ZxR soundcard is about as good as it gets for gaming. After that it's diminishing returns. But your setup is certainly cool.
@@shingnosis after comparing the ZMF Verite to the HD800S and my old setup as of a week ago, the ZMF Verite blows it away in every aspect (except a very minor difference in the WIDE aspect of soundstage, but makes up for it). Especially with some good mullard tubes.
Soundstage is slightly wider on the HD800S but as far as height / depth and 3D holographic sound - the ZMF Verite just completely slaughters it in every aspect but without having to deal with the harsh high peaks that the HD800S has.
After 30 minutes with the Verite, not even being broken in (Lots of users report they need a large break in period) I was already throwing the HD800S up on Ebay, just no reason to keep them as they just sound inferior in almost every way compared to the Verite at the beginning. They're not bad, but they don't give you near as an immersive experience with the Verite. Not to mention the bass and mids, which is in a whole different league.
As far as diminishing returns go, that was my main worry with pulling the plug on the Verite.. but I can definitely say, they offer so much of a different, musical and immersive sound that there is no way I could say these have diminishing returns on them.
I admire your dedication. I'm in the same boat, looking for audio upgrade for games and music
Hi Jay. Congrats for this great review. I perfectly understand how it feels when the DAC presents you the sound in such a manner, that takes you to a whole new dimension and sensorial experience. It is not only pleasing your ears by sounding good, but also getting you nailed in the listening position and being almost impossible to hit the "Next track" button. I felt transposed into something unreal and so hard to describe in all its details. All these happened with Rockna Wavelight dac. I'm 36 now and definitely convinced this is the last dac I'm willing to own. Highly recommend you to test one. I owned Chord Qutest, Rme Adi-2FS, Nuprime's Dac-9, Dac-10H, also tested in my system Sabaj D5, Topping D90, Matrix X Sabre Pro, Msb Analog Dac. None of these mentioned were even close to the Rockna experience.
Clean power is extremely important - ultra high end systems use batterys to power their PSU's.
Adding the Pontus ii to my Vintage/Modern mix of Luxman R1120a + Cambridge Audio CXN v2+KEF Ref 2 system was the best decision - kicks some serious audio nirvana ass!!
Great video Jay. Completely agree with your take on PSUs. Can't take any product which uses a wall wart seriously. Power must be cleaned and smoothed properly before it gets anywhere near the signal path.
I notice the DAC not only goes for discrete power supplies, it also has large arrays of small caps as opposed to a couple of pairs of large ones. Very good indeed. I take it the power supplies are separated between the analogue and digital sides of the DAC, rather than left and right channels?
Just found your channel and I am looking at the Pontus II actually. Great review!
I have the Pontus DAC (Silver) and it is amazing. It does take a while to burn-in when I I bought it new which I haven't noticed in other DACs.
Hi shan19key. My Pontus arrived yesterday. I'm impressed but as you say it needs burn in time, it's a bit bright at the top end just now and at times seems restrained. How long did yours take?
@@Claymore64 It took roughly a week before it stabilized.
@@shan19key Thanks. I'll leave it playing all the time then.
@@Claymore64 How did it sound after a few more days/weeks?
Jay, do you prefer the Denafrips Pontus over the Hifi Rose 150?
I might buy this dac like, soon. 😎
Oooooh you just sold me. I must have missed it first time watching so I had to go rewatch and you have a whole section about musicality. ❤
Appreciate the review. Oh btw you sound exactly like Ronny Chieng man.
OMG thank you, i’ve been highly considering this.
Your reviews provide great insights on the sound characteristics of products. Question: How does Pontus compare to the DAC in Hegel H390? Do you think using Pontus into analog inputs of H390 will improve sound quality further? Appreciate your advice. Thanks.
Asif, I can not answer your question directly as I do not have that DAC. However, I do have H390 and Chord Mojo and have them tested vs the H390 internal DAC yesterday . The mojo sounds better, better staging, warmer. As I read someone talked about this DAC is better than Chord qutest which is supposed better than Mojo, I’m really interested to try now
@@peterguo3395 Thanks Peter. I'm Disappointed. I was hoping H390 would beat at least a $1000 DAC. Do let me know about Pontus if you get your hands on one. What speakers have you paired with H390 if I may ask?
asif ali Khan, Pontus is still in my future upgrade list, and I am using Harbeth SHL5 plus
@@peterguo3395 Thanks Peter
Very much respect for doing a double blind test and showing the reveal. My only comment is that you should not be in the room when the switches were made (don't know if you were) and you should have more than two participants to get a better statistically confident result. For example, you must have at least 4 participants to have a 50% confidence (a toss up) of a 95% confidence level. To bring this into a real statistically significant result, i. e. 5% confidence in a 95% confident result, you need 384 participants. That isn't likely for you probably so relaxing the confidence interval to 20% let's you get away with 24 participants, great number for a party!
I really think someone needs to do a Pontus, Qutest and Holo Spring dac comparison
also add Audio GD r2r dacs
My Hugo2 sounds the same as the Qutest, the friend I got my Pontus from in fact had the Qutest. It was not very hard to hear a difference when he switched his Qutest to the Pontus. He has the May now, it is also a very good DAC, but I think it will need a bit of work to bring out its best.
@@sc51153826 so what was better the qutest or the pontus
@@t.j.bennett6454 sorry, I thought it was obvious that the Pontus is vastly superior. The current ability to manufacture such technology (discrete R2R) at this price level is game-changing IMHO. Here's from my earlier post elsewhere on this thread, "The Hugo2 I had before, by comparison, is like a 55 inch TV to a 12 ft screen with the Pontus. It is visceral, liquid, holographic with a deep, deep soundstage. Taller if I can treat my back wall. This is the best bang for the money for a DAC of this or any other technology at the moment. IMHO, YMMV. But it is definitely worth a try!"
@@t.j.bennett6454 I hear you, I have a good set of headphones that I enjoy off the main rig too. The Burson is certainly beautifully made, and the Conductor seems to have everything all together and then some... IMHO a built-in DAC eventually won't satisfy your headphones or speakers. Personally, I have a Schiit MJ2 with the Pontus. The Schiit has tubes, balanced (pre), RCA (pre), and balanced headphone output. The Pontus/Denafrips uses discrete Surface Mount Devices to build their R2R ladders. That makes a big difference, that's what makes them sound so much better.
Hey Jay, have u tried denafrips iris ddc and the new Pontus 2 ?
The Power Supply is a large part of the Sound. Everything else in the circuit depends on it.
I can hear the conviction in your voice. I think I want one.
Does the ares 2 dac have a very noticeable bigger more buttery liquidy smoother soundstage and more detail retrieval in the higher registries than topping D 90? Or is it something that I really have to do an A.B. comparison and really really listen super hard to see the little differences I’m looking for a noticeable difference without having to really look for it so hard. And what about this versus the D 90 as well even so a bigger gap I suppose in the same regard that I’m asking? 🙏🤘🥇 Rock on man!
Hi Jay. I have a question that needs your help: does Pontus II have Bluetooth function ? , thank you very much and have a good day
Sorry NO
Great review !! How would you compare the Denafrips Pontus DAC to the Denafrips Venus DAC ??
I,d also like to know that ..i,ll get one or another
thx
Ares 2 more in my budget. Im only running B&W 606 s1 speakers with a sub until i move to a bigger place.
Looks good - like a modern and significantly cheaper version of my Wadia 15 DAC, the black brushed, the led for each option, no buttons on the front. And yes analogue sounding but with digital details.
Hi Jay, Per your recommendation I purchased the Elac Vela and it sounds great with my Prima Luna Prologue Premium Integrated tube amp. Not sure which DAC, Ares II or the Pontus, would best suit my system. What a good problem to have. Please chime in if you have a direction I should think about. Thanks for all the great reviews and content
How does this compare to the Holo Spring 2 dac?
What is the best streamer to be paired with this that is cheaper than the Pontus itself (i believe that the DAC should be much more expensive than the streamer). I was supposed to get the Node 2i but i've read that the Node 2i's digital out is weak and will hamper the denafrips pontus (as per Hans Beekhuyzen).
Lindemann Limetree - much better than Node 2i, and surely in the connectivity department. Even the latest Node, technically Node 3, has connectivity issues. Limetree Bridge is just a bit more, but totally different.
Bifrost Schiit or Denafrips Ares II will be great with Limetree.
Thank you for the review, you do a great job of describing the differences in presentation. It is really easy to follow and possible to get a reasonably vivid image of how the component you are reviewing fits into the market in terms of sound.
Any plans for taking a look at the amps made by Denafrips (e.g. Thallo and Athena)? They seem like good value and it would be nice if they could bring the same price to performance Denafrips is known for in the DAC domain to amplifiers as well. Zerofidelity did a review a while back of their entry level amp/pre-amp so it would be great to hear your thoughts on what their current top-end amplifiers are like.
Jay, will you be testing the Audio Mirror Tubadour III Non Oversampling Tube DAC SE dac Anytime soon ?
I think it will be gret if someone could review the sound performance of varous input such as USB-PC, Optical, Coaxial, I2S, AES. Sure there are difference in sound quality but what is the difference?
some people say the Aries is too soft? this may be a better option. i am looking to replace my venerable NAD D1050. wish Singapore would open up so that i could hear one. how would this sound with strings?
Hey wish we could talk. Love your channel by the way. I’m curious How would it compare this to the doge 7 ii? I have it now after your review. I’m very interested in the Isquare input now.
Nice 1st probably my next DAC
I current use a digital volume control with my 32 bit Sabre DAC but do you think it would work OK with the Pontus ? Does Pontus have enough bit depth for DVC ?
It would be helpful to have a everyman's base to compare dacs/transports to.
I have an Oppo 105 that I purchased new, which I only used for SACD/DVD-As and a Marantz HD CD-1 as a transport connecting to a Audio Alchemy DDP-1 (dac/pre). Eventually, I came across replacement LPM on eBay and a Furutech IEC with silver wire tail that plugs into the OEM and new board. The resultant sound is so good I eliminated the AA dac/pre and the Marantz. 105 I bought new $995, aftermarket parts < $350. I no longer use either my AA or the Marantz, which also eliminates 2 power cords, and cables. Approximate savings $3K
What would you suggest would be a good match for a headphone amp? Or what would you recommend for headphone listening?
Jay, I'm a subscriber to your channel and considering buying a Pontus. However, I have read that improvements from the Ares, which I now have, are accompanied by a loss of warmth. I have Klipsch IV speakers. If there is a loss of warmth upgrading to the Pontus, depending on the amount, might impact my system's SQ adversely. I would very much appreciate your thoughts on this. Your channel is a must-read for me. Many thanks.
I have both ares2 and pontus 2. The pontus 2 doesn't lack the warmth in comparison to the ares 2. It may seem to some that it does because the pontus 2 is more balanced in areas of resolution, authority, maturity etc. So the warmth in the pontus 2 isn't as obvious.
Hi, I really enjoy your videos. Thanks for all the candid comments
My speaker is Wilson benesch Arc, do you think it’s a good match with Pontus. My preamp is Schitt Frey’s+ , power amp Schiit Aegir (x2) . Thank you
Oh yes if thats within the budget you have in mind. For your speakers and system, it may benefit more from the terminator or the plus. Nice speakers btw !
How would you recommend those amplifiers and preamp I plan on buying the same set up without the speakers obviously cannot afford it
Last week it was a $5K DAC. This week $2300 (you said under $2 grand, apparently the price gone up after the video). You're working in the right direction. Keep it up ☺️👍
I have no DAC and I'm sort of a DAC agnostic but if a really good one came out for less price than my receiver, I might try it. However, I don't have a clue how you go about integrating it into the system.
2300 singapore dollars =1700 usd
@@poetryonplastic alright my friend thanks
Was Topping D90 a close second?
Would this match up with the parasound classic 200 as far as voltage ? I would connect it via rca into the parasound
Hello. Is Pontus much inferior to Pontus ll in sound quality? Big thanks .
great review...what did you use for a pre amp in your listening?
That B roll
Hi Jae, congrats for the detailed reviews, especially Vintage audio.
About dacs, and streamers, actually I am playing a Luxmann 507 with a pair of Kef R11, I listen all kind of music, forma 70´s Pink Floyd to comtemporary electrónic music. Can you give me a recomendation for a good streamer and DAC to pair with this set?
Best Regards.
KEF R3 - Rotel 1592 Intergrated - Blue Sound 2i - which DAC will work better with this rig, Ares II or Pontus?
Great review! Interesting point about the resolution of the speakers as a limiting factor of whether or not to upgrade your DAC. Do you think a Hegel H120 + Totem towers is enough to justify a Pontus? The Hegel inbuilt DAC is great, but I’m intrigued by what Denafrips is doing.
I’ve got the Hegel H390 and the internal dac is no where near the Pontus levels.
Great review Jay. I purchased the Willsenton R8 tube amp with EL34 tubes following your excellent review and I absolutely love the amp - so much better than my vintage Naim pre/power. Would the Pontus work well with the Willsenton?
Yeap
@@Jayiyagi
I Thought you might say that! Well your Willsenton recommendation was spot on. I can't thank you enough for that one, I'm totally nuts about how the Willsenton has made such a massive improvement to my music enjoyment.
Now I need to start saving again!
Great review! What headphone amplifier would match the Pontus in terms of sound quality and otherwise be on equal footing? I don’t have hard to drive headphones, I’m just looking for something that will pair nicely with the Pontus” quality.
Gsx mini or the soloist 3x
Great video! Do you know How does this compare to musical paradise d2 tube dac? Similar price point!
Hi soulsik! How does the Pontus compare with the MSB dac? Is this marginally better than the Ares ll? You highly Praise the ares ll DAC in terms of performance and value... is it the same with the Pontus?
It is the same with the pontus. I am immensely impressed with the denafrips brand
Can you compare this DAC to Doge 7 please?Thank you! :)
good review mate!
I have seen much live and hate for R2Rs in forums, could you disect that abit about your experience between the factvthat R2Rs often times test very badly but sound good and vice verse for delta sigma dacs. Other than that..always love your reviews.
Spdif or USB is better for Pontus?
I'm serious on the Topping D90. Do you think the pontus leaps beyond that price point?
I have both and the Pontus is the better DAC by quite some margin. One thing with Pontus though is it is quite bright at the top end. I've had mine playing for nearly a week now and it is only just starting to flatten out a bit. Everything else is superior to the D90 ( which for the money is a great DAC ). On a personal note I hope it continues to calm down because it's not what I expected and I'm finding it a bit fatiguing after a while listening.
How it looks like compare denafrips terminator II r2r or venus II r2r vs dcs debussy? Did you test Chord Qutest with Farrad vs Denafrips Pontus II (which cost very simmilar)? For me Qutest with Farrad sounds much better than Hugo TT.
I’m using Qutest with Farad Super3 since 1 yr in my setup. And bought a Pontus 2 a week ago, comparing both. Similar depth of soundstage, Pontus wilder soundstage, good with ALL music. Qutest - Farad impresses more, ‘fidelity’ seems a bit higher, details draw a bit more attention. Pontus draws as much attention to everything, more even. Bass is very deep and powerfull and a bit quicker, and stops quicker too on the Qutest. Pontus as powerful and deep and to be short: very good. But Qutest - Farad has the edge by a little. Pontus generally more pleasing sound. Qutest more accurate / precise / scalpel wise bit without sounding too analytical. Very 3d als well, as the Pontus, for sure. Certainly with the Farad. Don’t know yet wich one I’m going to keep…
Certainly two fantastic DAC’s, that’s for sure.
Hi great review thank you! Plese can you reccomend what kind of amp to match this dac? To pairing with sennheiser 800s?
Will it make a difference with active speakers with their own DSP?
Would love to know where you got the diffusers used in this video ? nice color. Do they ship internationally ?
Very Very well done review sir thank you!
What would be a good headphone amplifier with a similar price range to pair with the Pontus?
I really like that you outlined what you do and don't get from this DAC. If the sound profile isn't what you're looking for then it will not make you happy. I also like how you compared it to other products out there. It's a jungle of DACs being released.
please ask dac denafrip pontus 1 and pontus 2 much different, how is the sound quality different.
great review bro .i think i will buy it....
Jay have you ever tried LUMIN T2 ? It is also very analogue type of DAC despite sabre used. Anybody compared it with Pontus? Pls share opinions
Can the Denafrips Pontus do MQA? If not, is there a way to play MQA while using the pontus DAC?
Hey Jay, thanks for the review. Very interested in getting the Areas II or Pontus. Near the end of the video, you mentioned Benchmark. How would you compare the Pontus to Benchmark DAC3 (which is very well received and I personally liked a lot)? Thanks!
Yes I am very interested in that comparison as well. Great review! Thanks.
Hi, Jay what is that electric music what you have mentioned?
Are you planning to make a review about the Anthem STR integrated Canadian amplifier? I would love to hear your thoughts about that gear! I think is a good amp, but not really popular and I don't know why..? Thanks, hugs! 🍻
Regards, Zoltan
I guess its Electrified II from Yello. Swiss band with great sound.
Jay did you compare pontus to chord qutest? Around same price.
Just a suggestion, if you're calling out the name of the device before you've "checked" that indicates a bias, and therefore a not so blind blind test, otherwise a great video, and I would love to see you compile your 5 award winning components. Keep up the great work
Have you tried the Holo May DAC?
I just got a ares 2, what gear would you go for with a similar soud signature.
I have a Schiit Yggdrasil, which advertises that they keep the original samples and interpolate additional samples between them, they do oversample though. I wonder if you have had a chance to compare the Yggdrasil and the Pontus?
Yggdraisil is harsher in the highs!