No AC, Trane package unit not cooling
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ส.ค. 2024
- Today we look at a 30 ton packaged unit that isn't cooling. I troubleshoot some zone sensors, thermostats and we verify mechanical cooling.
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6:50 it's a head master... No not my sister; thats a different type of head master. It keeps the head pressure high when it's cold outside. It's hard for the unit to keep proper head pressure when the outdoor temperature is colder than the box temperature. Units are engineered to operate for the outdoor temperature be higher than the box temperature. So the valve (head master) allows some hot gas to bypass the condenser and dumps it directly into the reciever to keep the head pressure up (when it's cold outside). Love your channel!
Hi Bill,
The double suction line is for oil transport during low load when only one evaporator is being fed liquid.
Hence the low load one being smaller diameter, to get the gas velocity to transport oil.
The the hot gas injection keeps the suction level above a certain level so the coil being fed liquid under part load does not freeze or cause de-humidification.
That adjustable pressure valve opens below a set pressure in the suction.
It's neat, don't see it that often.
Good on you for pointing out that the equipment should be treated with respect, and that the next guy finds the job in good order.
Like you say, the next guy is going to say: Bill was here................?
Best regards,
Duncan
Thanks for the info Duncan, much appreciated- stay safe out there
@@curioushvacguy6876 if that was attached to a house it would get cold fast
Like they say "It's Hard To Stop A Trane!"........but it's even harder to get one started LOL
You can sure hear them comin tho 😂
My dads worked on some big units like that, I have worked on many household units,(5 ton max) That 30 ton would intimidate the hell out of me! Thanks for being honest! New subby
The toggle switch next to your meter is used to cycle through the stages for testing . There should be a chart on the inside of the left door . Also some of the zone sensors will not be sending 24V to the board but will just show a different ohm value to call for heat,fan,air etc . We use a lot of 50 ton Tranes here and have a 108Ton also .
I retired from the post office a couple yrs ago. We had more than a few of those. Seems like we had a lot of thermostat issues with those. The PO ran the shit out of their equipment. They always left their dock doors wide open to the exterior and there is always a lot of paper dust in the air. Good job.
I really appreciate the videos I’m new to package units and your videos have been gold I love the honesty you don’t seem like an arrogant know it all
I use the same meter that you show in the video and I like the fact that its compact and has the magnet on the back to make it easy to read and use with one hand.
Yeah so far I really do enjoy that meter, only if it was dual impedance it would be perfect
We did a helicopter lift of 14 of those. Covid units. Had many blower bearings fail right away. One blower wheel blew apart. The warranty blower replacement was fun. Comes in pieces. Gooooood Times!
Great mention about checking y to ground or to common. One thing to remember is, the control transformer windings are not grounded. So why check to ground, unless checking for winding to ground short. Hope this was helpful.
Took me the entire video but i finally recognized what business this is.
Those Trane Voyager units are pretty cool, i remember the first 160 ton inteklipack 2 I worked on, now that was impressive unit!
There alot of good guys on TH-cam for HVAC. But the only guy that I can relate to. Love the hat thing and good job man
That TX valve and bypass valve in the copeland unit is usually for liquid Subcooling used typically in mid to large scale refrige when the condensor liquid is too warm when going out to the field and needs extra chilling. :) --Australia
Thanks
I worked on some Tim Horton restaurants that had that setup for the Iced Cappuccino machine. The double suction line was for oil return. The unit on the roof never shut off, so when the unit downstairs satisfied and closed its valve the unit on the roof had its own 2nd txv to use. It was all massively oversized so they could draw product continuously.
Very good video and instructive thank you and god bless all your teaching
Cool brother
Nice diagnosis
Zone sensor not programmed correctly
Cool man
Like your professional work ethic. Should always clean up your mess it's not your home (I hope its not that bad though seen some hmmm) its a work space, even truckers for the most part are cleaner.
Bro, you've got a voice for radio.
I’ve got a face for it
It sounds,like the guy from Dirty jobs.lol
ya, a double suction header. normally for oil control under low load conditions. we dont run into it much in my area/ on equipment we service since we dont really do much with coolers/ freezers. however older larger split systems that control capacity for comfort cooling or even chilled water for remote barrel or plate frame. normally found on r22 systems or should be anyway. sometimes its spect for 410a depending on condenser location. For example, some York commercial splits if the condenser is x amount of feet above the evaporator, (normally several storys) then they want to use a double suction header or oil separator. I have one account with a set up like that is 2 stage and has a oil separator on it that we installed for the installing contractor due to the condenser being 60 feet above the evaporator so it traps the oil and dumps it back to the compressors.
Hey Cameron thanks for the feedback- I dont get to see to many of those in my area either
And that's why the nicer thermostats have password controls :)
Double suction line could be another evaporator on another box. liquid line would have to split somewhere also. Both evap coils would have there own thermostat and pump down valve. the compressor would be controlled by pressure switch. as long as one box is calling for "cooling" the compressor runs. The satisfied evap would be the same pressure as the one still calling for "cooling." When both satisfied compressor goes off on low pressure.
Used to be quite common to run multiple evaps on one compressor. Big draw back; compressor goes bad all boxes go hot.
It’s a Trane thing with the chain.
I work for Trane as a controls tech. These units can be a nightmare for start up techs sometimes.
That chain does come from the factory. I've worked on a few 50 Ton Voyagers, and let me tell you, when you got those Behemoths, sitting on top of an old curb plus a 24in curb adapter, those chains make life a hell of a lot easier. XD
Double suction riser.... de-superheating valve to prevent high compression ratios. Company called rawal makes them.
Thats actualy a baby intelpak. Use to walking up on 100-200 ton models. They are intimidating the first time you walk up to them. Well built machines. The RTRM units are much easer to work on then the older UCP ones. They also use a controller that the buttons like to stick on on them and the chillers.
This is in Monroe. I was working on this bad baby the other day. They always knock the sensors off the wall in this building.
Thanks for another great video.
I appreciate you uploading these! You can't put a price on how valuable they are, I really mean it when I say "Thank You!"
I have a question.
My question is, can you check voltage between R power & Y1 ??
Or do you have to go between Y1 & Common?
Thank Again, & please keep the videos coming😎
Glad you like them!
Check between Y1 and Common to see if you're calling for cooling. If you check R and Y1 you'll get voltage since R has power if the transformer has 24v. So do not check between R to y1
One of the best books out there.
64° and not cooling? . 30 tons . Tranes I do daily are 60+ . Up to 110tons. All vavs. Building automation. Nice video.
Good detective work.
I think the small suction line on the equipment with two suction lines pulls from the bottom of a trap downstairs to pull the oil up stairs ...
Thanks JT
I'm a foreman and if my guys want to smoke, they sure as hell dont do it on the customer's property. I make em smoke on the street.
Excellent job, good diagnosis.
Flashing that curb looks like a pain. I see these huge units all day considering im a commercial roofer. They definitely get bigger than this one, connex sized.
Nice job sorted well . Sometimes you havd to step back and rethink.
Great video buddy! I had same issue with a venstar t4900 stat. It was way too cold. I found stat was not reading remote sensors😂 with venstar, a degree icon is flashing on screen which tells you reading from sensor but degree icon not flashing means reading from stat. I wonder if Honeywell has that same feature?.😎
Wow man never seen either one of those in the wild..great video
@@curioushvacguy6876 your right Bosses are all business..lol
@@curioushvacguy6876 I thought you were a boss?
This is small compared to the units I work on just by your video I sense very inexperienced but keep learning this job is really good pay especially when your in the 45 per hour pay rate working for a company and when you open your own place 125 per hr but learn the equipment be your own boss when you learn the equipment you pave your own path keep it up
Thanks, will do!
Exactly what is the job title for what you guys do?
I’m enjoying watching your subscribers growing, well deserved bud, take care on this holiday weekend !!
Double suction riser. Depends on length of vertical rise. Thats wrong. There's no solenoid on a suction line. If you shut one solenoid the condenser would pump down. The only reason its there is bc of oil return. Its in every heatcraft manual and explains it in depth
Shoutout to the TA truck stop 🚛. I wonder if they still have Flying J’s out there.
Was working on a 50 ton like this today. They are mean. Needed a 12" ladder because the the curb was 3". 20hp blower
I used to work on a lot of those.. I also worked on stuff LOTS bigger.. 100 ton "Mammoth" brand units with Trane Varicone .. the mammoth units were circa early 90s...
Good work bro
Thanks
Hope you know that brown board on the right side of electrical panel (had 2 on this unit) is your test board. Idk wym by bypassed in the video but you could of put a screwdriver or jumper between test 1 & 2 and you take it off every time you hear a click wait to see what come on (heat , stage1 cool , stage2 cool or both cools) first click is always blower and the steady green light on RTRM board will change to flash when you do this.
Lol that’s for low ambient on that condenser. It just bypasses the condenser coil on cold days to maintain suction pressure.
Makes you wonder if the zone sensor was bad in the first place. Maybe the tech didn’t check the readout designations.
Those are trashie Tech's , Good job taking up for them .
On that Copeland it looks like liquid injection for lowering the hot gas temp. Oil dont do so well above 250f. Kinda different to see a hot gas bypass(capacity control). Usualy on a low temp i see head master and liquid injection with ct activated switch. Long vertical rise having mutiple suction traps and or double suction lines to bring oil back to compressor after defrost. Its a bad day when you have a liquid line solenoid leak by and migrate off all the oil. If compressor is low on oil need to fine out where its at. Have replaced a few compressors before and had to pull twice to three times the sump worth of oil. Always tear down a ironbody to see cause of fail. Kinda hard to cut open a tin can or scroll.
Thanks for the tips bro!!!
I’ve seen everything from small one ton units to 1000 ton package units and you know what? Some are more complicated but the physics is the same. So don’t let larger units scare you (within reason).
Nice video ,,,,good explanation,,,,,,make one video whit external static pressure I whant learn more that,,,,
Grazie !!! 👍😀
Great troubleshooting!
As for the small condenser with the duel suction line it’s critical how you get oil back to the condenser inverted to on top and p trap on bottom sorry if I sound rude I just remember when I was at your stage now I work up to 650 ton now and believe me when you see a unit that has 1500 pounds of refrigerant it’s an experience
Not rude at all Chris- I appreciate the feedback, it helps me learn and reminds me im a student to this trade everyday, or just about everyday lol
dude, i'm a smoker, and I would definitely not be even smoking around a customer's unit, let alone leaving my butts in the machine!! that's just bad practice :(
your exactly right--
The HVAC techs who used to service the units at my last employer were BAD about smoking on the roof and tossing the butts onto the roof. I found several cigarette burns in the roofing material near the RTUs that were causing roof leaks. 🤬
I do all the time...spend 13 years of getting abused mentally and physically by customers..ill put my smoke wherever I want LMFAO😅😅
Ew, you're nasty.
Better to leave it in the unit than on the roof
Is it just me or does his voice sound like Mike Rowe's voice in Dirty Jobs or whatever that show was?
“I never seen one of these in a while!”?lol good shit brah!
Thanks
The blower was clean as a whistle!
your exactly right--
Good job.!!
The toggle switch on the left side of the control panel with cycle unit through test mode.
LOL, I was reading through the comments to see if anyone told him this .
Nice video, I always leave a calling card.
Your one effect dude !!!! Nice work.
Thanks a lot!
Good stuff here. Thanks
Hot gas bypass head pressure control system. The txv may be to meter liquid into the suction line for compressor cooling.
Good job
Hot gas bypass maybe ...couldnt tell from video. Also, ever heard of NFPA 70 E...?
2:15, it's a Trane thing. Intellipaks and larger voyagers.
Looked like hot gas bypass with liquid injection. That would make sense for the double suction riser. I'm not 100 percent sure though.
@@curioushvacguy6876 exactly. I was talking about what was in the condensing unit. If you're passing hot gas back to the compressor you're moving less gas through the suction line. So it would make sense that they would install a double suction riser. The liquid injection would be there to control the suction temp coming back to the compressor.
Yea. I built refrigeration units both chiller and freezer units here in New Zealand
I love your videos and thank you for not cussing. I have learned so much from you👍👍👍
Was the smaller unit beside the package unit part of the ice machine? I installed a small one like that but it didn't have two suction lines... just wondering
That switch next to your multimeter is a test switch you can use that to stage the unit instead of using the thermistat
I think we have a case of Inexperience.....
Ah, custom build Trane.
Goodman couldn't build one of those in their wettest dreams.
And if they tried, they'd secure the blower with #8 5/16" head zip screws. LOL
Are those thermostats smart enough that an open zone sensor will make them revert to local temperature sensing? The previous techs error may have been he failed to realise this and didn't reset the thermostat to remote sense. Totally agree about being a pig leaving buts inside the unit, could have been worse and been in the evap fan area I guess.
Hi, how much it cost this unit without install ?
That area where the zone is at may be picking up heat not a good place . Wanna be able to read air flow .
Your exactly right
What did you find was the reason why the compressors did not come on at initial startup.
If I remember correctly there is a built in delay in that system
2 minute delay big equipment
I think this would be done to keep the equipment from cycling too quickly
I’m surprised that it was only a two minute delay. Usually Trane builds in 5 - 10 min delays for loss of power.
Rich Davis you are probably right he said it was 2
What is the design static of that 30 ton unit? I am curious myself!
Great video!!
Nice video 👍
Thanks
You are suppose to use an inverted trap for capacity and if the evap is above the condenser
That’s called a double riser for improved oil return to the compressor.
Very good
Thanks Ronald
what you are doing wrong is goring your bird bro..hahah, keep up the good work and be safe..!!
I worked on one of these not to long ago It never worked in heating mode from day one with a little help from tech saport we resolved problem the problem was control wiring between pcbs was incorrect In other words you're J connectors were going to the wrong places on the boards these units are hard to work on and there's very little information out there at least it was in my case it took several phone calls to train before we could get the right guy to give us a hand
@Jcam Camarij true but man getting tech saport help now is like pulling hens teeth
Hi, ist daikin package 12 tons butter than other brand ?
good ol voyager 3
I'm looking for a new multimeter. What one do you recommend?
I would say a Fluke or a Fieldpiece. My company uses Fluke so that's what I am used to. If I had to pay for a meter of my own pocket I would probably go Fieldpiece. There are others, but thos two brands are what I have seen most of the pros use.
Hey I need little help I can't get the one I'm working on to get it to call for heat the bms is calling but no action
If you want shoot me an email curioushvacguy@gmail.com
Got it going was set poin value on bms hidden at the bottom of the page I feel stupid
I wonder what that unlabeled off-on switch was in the electrical compartment?
good question
I will send you some pics this weekend if you want to see some bigger units
Trane does provide some sort of door stay. It could be a chain or a hook.
Those black covers are covers for the relay covers..They must forgot to put them back on..
30 ton. That’s pretty heavy..
@@jackhandyy sure it does. 30 tons times 2000 equals 60000 pounds. Very heavy.
it’s the cooling capacity of an A/C system. In 1-Hour the system should be able to remove 30-tons of heat. So if I did my math correctly, this unit should be able to remove 360,000 BTUs of heat.
@@jfrancis98 hahahaha!!!!!
I’m strong! I can move a 3 ton unit all by myself!!
@@jeffb8437 I can move a 15 ton all by myself if I have an angle grinder and enough time. 🤣
I think you would like the much larger 162 ton rtu trane intellipak, and governair units that are even larger
Curious HVAC guy they are pretty cool, at first very intimidating because of the massive size and high voltage danger and yep daily work on em
Gamez516 Wait till you work on 750 ton chillers 😉
Wait till you guys have to work on a 1,400 ton centrifugal chiller hanging off a 16 ft ladder just to access everything in the motor starter compartment.
Oh and the voltage to the machine is 13,200 volts.
On which page is that in the book and what’s it call.
Probably that condenser is a Russell high Sierra with a hot gas defrost
And a desuperheating valve