Yes the pilot could have trained and practiced at a less busy airport. But this significant over pressure by ATC was without doubt a contributing factor! They only seemed interest in revenue flights and arrogance!
This accident was covered on another channel and the big takeaway was her decision to fly into such a heavy and busy airspace and airport with little or no experience. You have to be experienced with the fast pace that happens and controllers can't spend much time guiding you as you can see heavy air craft are coming in every minute.
Speaking as a pilot, we have plenty of small enough airports in the United States to avoid the incredible danger of having these small single engine or even most smaller twin engine general aviation aircraft attempting to land in between these massive commercial aircraft. This is a perfect example of the massive speed disadvantage these smaller aircraft have and that is a minor danger compared to the unseen wake turbulence created by the larger aircraft.
as i just said i can take a cub into any airport in the world without even causing a single extra ounce of workload for a controller. i say that because i've done it repeatedly. you just need to know how to handle your airplane and have an understanding of what is going on around you. it takes years flying at tower airports to develop the ability to understand the big picture at the airport and how you fit in. when you are maxed out just flying the plane that is impossible. she had neither of these skills. she was CLUELESS and if you can't understand that from the radio communications then you should not go there either. the small plane or the busy airport combination is NOT dangerous, it is the person at the controls. can you imagine being the husband or the other guy at her mercy?
@@chucklemasters6433 At ATC's mercy. . . listen to the recording again. 2:20 to 2:40 and tell me why ATC told her to follow the 737 and then turned he to the right instead of the left. She had a flight plan...or are airports just for airliners now. Why didnt ATC recommend a diversion to alternate airport. . . instead of running her around in circles. She trust ATC and he failed her!!
Nope. Speaking as a pilot. This is on both ATC and the pilot. An airport is an airport. They let her in the bravo and now they have to deal with her. She messed up by not telling ATC unable. She had the right of way more than once.
@@teddyherrera727 your comment clearly demonstrates your very limited knowledge of operations in class bravo airspace. controller does not have to do anything and should have told her on her first amateur attempt at landing to leave houston bravo a/s immediately. she had NO business there. what are you a pilot of MS simulator?
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila bs...2:20 the ATC asked her if she seen the 737 at 2 o'clock, she replied "yes"...then told her to proceed and follow in... on ATC recommendation. ATC then radio's to the 737 on the intent...of the little plane following them in . .. Then at 2:41 the derelict turner her to the left to 30 degrees both of the runways she was told to use were on her right. This is how it is ATC's fault.
@@jotegg1276 He gave her that left turn because she had totally botched the Rwy 35 downwind, which she had read back the clearance for. Instead, she blew that clearance and flew the downwind for Rwy 04.😖 This action put her in a position where she couldn't complete a normal circuit onto Rwy 35. She was about to fly through the Rwy 35 extended centerline at circuit altitude, heading southwest. Understand? Pretty much every change ATC gave her was related to her messing up a previous clearance. Despite all of the ATC attempts to get her in safely, the end result was that she stalled during her final Go Around (which she self-initiated because, for the second time, she couldn't manage her own vertical profile). She stalled because she pre-maturely retracted the flaps without attaining the proper speed. She also didn't know how to recover from a stall, so she killed herself and two others. If you're a pilot, you know the priority order for your attention (Aviate, Navigate, Communicate). She failed to FLY the airplane in the end.
Not knowing about other following traffic but it seems that changing between intersecting runways 'on the fly' can be difficult to get altitude setup correct, especially for a low-time GA pilot. It seems to me that setting her up for right traffic on 35 and issuing one or more left 360s for spacing while in pattern would have lowered the workload a ton with two minute granularity.
you people don't seem to understand that busy commercial airports are for COMMERCIAL jet traffic. you must undertand how to fit a slow bug smasher in with those jets or you are screwed. i can take a cub into any airport in the world and never cause a single glitch. these new pilots who follow their instructors guidance on how to fly a pattern don't have a chance in bravo airspace because they fly the pattern in their slow little bug smasher like they are in a 747. the controllers or anybody else don't care one bit how you fly the pattern or pattern altitude if you don't interrupt the flow of the main traffic at the airport. they know from your first response on the radio your level of experience just like i know from a controllers first response if he is a newbie whether he is tower, ground, approach or center. when they give a landing clearance you better head directly to the numbers, get that thing on the ground and take the first available turnoff unless intructed otherwise. this means forget about the worthless patterns these new instructors teach because they don't know any better either!
The Cirrus pilot was in wayover her head, not enough training for the aircraft and environment. The only thing ATC could have done was recommend another nearby airport. She lacked command authority by letting ATC vector her around with those cross winds, just inexperienced and trying to please ...RIP .
An entirely avoidable tragedy. The question in my mind is this: Was the poor girl competent for this level of operations? This is to say, was she ready to be passed out of her training program?
I myself am I pretty low time PP SEL with little experience in Class B airspace and if I were flying that Cirrus and I made the call to land at that airport, after the second attempt to get in line didn't work out, I'm telling the tower to vector me OUT of the pattern and get me clear while I decide on an alternate place to go. She's too high, too close and too stressed to try and dive bomb for any runway. Get out of there and get re established when the traffic thins out and a safer hole is open or go elsewhere. Just too much going on here. I wouldn't have tried this more than twice.
This was tragic and so sad. She had to have been confused with all the go arounds and instructions. I know this doesn't fall all on the tower, but they didn't help the situation.
Class Bravo controllers don't like the smaller planes. I've landed at Tampa and Charlotte. The Charlotte controller told me to exit on a taxiway in the opposite direction and yelled at me when I didn't see it.
you are totally incorrect and you obviously don't know nearly enough to make an intelligent comment on this subject. controllers have absolutely NO opinion on airplanes of ANY size sir. it's the loose nut behind the yoke they have problems with and i don't blame them one bit! i can't believe how patient they are with idiots like you! they hate little airplanes you must be in second grade to come to that conclusion. like the previous commenter you have no idea what you are telling many of us with you assinine comments.
RIP. So very sad. But this isn’t on the controller- it’s pilot error- inexperienced pilot at very busy commercial airport dealing with jet traffic. Regardless of the different runway assignments, pilots primary duty is to control their aircraft- and she did not. BTW, light aircraft flying around heavy jets risk losing control due to wake turbulence- don’t know if that was a factor here, but the circumstances here suggest she may not have anticipated that risk either. As a former flight instructor and commuter airline pilot, I recommend general aviation pilots in light aircraft avoid all the major commercial airports if possible.
that is SO wrong on many levels sir. if you have the knowledge and experience you can fly a cub into any airport in the world and not cause ATC one single problem and they can tell after the first few words of your first transmission if you can handle it or not just like i know from the first few words from a controller if i should trust them or not. wake turbulence is no problem either if you have knowledge of how it behaves and how to avoid it. it is NOT the mix of planes or the busy airport that is the problem, it is the PIC!
@@jimosborne2 yes jim did you read past MY first sentence? that is the ONLY sentence i agreed with you on. i have flown slow aircraft in class bravo and charlie airports many times without causing a single incident. if you understand wake turbulence and have the ability to see how you will fit into the flow of traffic before the tower even tells you then is is absolutely not unsafe in any way. sure pilots with 500 hours who have trouble landing their cirrus even at their home airport should never consider going into bravo or charlie and that is what you should have said but you didn't. what you said indicated that you believe nobody should take a bug smasher into those airports and that is clearly not correct information.
@@jimosborne2 your first sentence is the ONLY one i agree with. you are correct she had no business there. where you continue to make a blanket statement that ALL GA pilots in single engine aircraft should not land at bravo airpots is nonsense. there are many competent experienced GA pilots who can land at bravo airports without making a nuisance of themselves. if you can't admit that this idea is preposterous then i won't debate you either!
Geez.. Probably a low time pilot trying to do her best to politely comply with ATC throwing curveballs at here one after the other. Being in Class B with heavy iron is damn stressful at the best of times. This makes me sick! Make the freaking 737 go around after you have given the landing clearance why don't ya?
Exactly, she was a very low time, (332.6 hours) private pilot, who got in over her head. She retracted the flaps too early, an airspeed below flap retraction speed, in a turn, exceeded the critical AoA.
@@rElliot09 yup stall/spin/die.. Ugh, even with 1500, hours Class B always got my attention. Yet they jerked her around because they couldn't sequence the traffic properly.. Absolutely tragic!
Why is everybody blaming the controller? and calling his actions "criminal"? She did not seem to be well oriented at that airport and got lost several times, making wrong turns etc. Could not slow down and descend in time to make the rwy, she was possibly overwhelmed. The controller tried helping her by giving her a different rwy clear of airline traffic (because she failed to follow simple speed instructions). This system works well only if both sides do their job. This is a tragedy, yes, but I don't get it why people are so quick to blame the controller for the pilot's stall. R.I.P.
@@scotabot7826 unless the 737 had declared an emergency or was a Medivac flight, the cirrus which was on short final has the right of way. Otherwise prohibit GA airplanes from major airports. Toronto International Airport prohibits GA airplanes unless they are on an instrument flight plan or an emergency.
No... she should have deviated a few miles east to Baytown KHPY, easily landed, gotten Uber, and gone about their day. Little piston poppers and big jets don't mix. This was on her... not the controllers.
This is OLD news and ATC did not make a mistake. She STALLED.... ATC does not fly the plane. This title and the comments below show real ignorance. Yes they were jerking her around to sequence her in with busy airline arrivals. BUT she was not following instructions and confused. ATC was very very very helpful. Tragic. She died and killed 2 others. RIP
To use airline CRM terms she was deep in the red. She was jerked around so much that she began to lose situational awareness. They should have recognized this. No they don’t fly the plane but, they got her so flustered that she started to lose the ability to fly it. I’m a current corporate pilot a retired airline pilot with over 18k hours and a CFIIME. They aren’t totally responsible but, they could have done a much better job.
@@xcop11 Yes CRM but FAA calls it SRM Single-Pilot Resource Management for GA. I'm an airline pilot over 30 yrs, also still teach GA as a CF-II-ME at a local flying club I belong to. Lets not over think it. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. She got slow, low, stalled, did not or could not recover, I recalled spun in. ATC was not to blame. I fly in and out Class B all the time, easy in an airliner on IFR flight plan, IAP (unless it's bad weather and JFJK). I have all kinds of strategies to land at class B VFR or IFR in a slower GA plane if needed. For sure if IFR don't fly 90kts. Learn how to fly a faster speed, like 120kts if able. For the most part I avoid busy times. In my personal plane I pick satellite airports with no landing, ramp fees, lower fuel prices and no heavy iron wake turbulence. I recommend any pilot wanting to fly into a class B airport get training. A call to FAA ATC facility (approach or tower) is handy. You can always get clearance deliver by phone, they can direct you to who to call. VFR GA arrivals typically in my experience come in low on a base and make a short final and land. If spacing was not good they had me do a 360 degree. You have to be able to turn and maintain speed and altitude, pilot 101.
Folks... this wasn't on the controllers. She was a low time pilot flying an airplane that you have to be proficient to stay ahead of the plane. She wasn't trained in high speed approaches. In my 30 years of flying light GA aircraft, I learned early on...little piston poppers and big jets don't mix. Had she deviated a few miles to the east, she could have easily landed at Baytown KHPY, and gotten an Uber. This was senseless, and I hate to say it... but she in way over her head.
@@rickashford4005 Yes, the big takeaway is these airports are extremely busy and fast paced with the heavy traffic and size of aircraft. They require GA pilots with quick decision making and handling of their planes. This blogger gave a terrible headline to attract viewers. As it wasn't the controllers job to get her down, she was to slow and didn't have confidence. He gave warnings about being to high and abort. Aviatate, Navigate and Communicate and above all stay away from heavy airports.
2:00 what did ATC say? 2:21 what was said then? 2:41 why did ATC turn her to the left away from the runways he gave her to land on....then ask her if that was where she wanted to land. The decision was already made....ATC eve radio'd the 737 with the little planes intent to follow them in...the 737 acknowledges ATC. So why again is it "not" ATC's fault. She was in a high stress moment and she was doing everything ATC told her to do... and was polite and not showing any stress. . . numbers on the screen is what matters no matter the size of the aircraft.
@@jotegg1276 You answered your own question. She shouldn't have been in a high stress situation because she shouldn't have even attempted to land or use class B airspace. It requires a fast pace decision making and quick reaction knowledge and abilities. The controllers jobs at these airports is not to carry her. She should have abandoned the plan and landed at another airport. You said she was polite, absolutely because she was treating it as a normal airport totally oblivious to the environment of class B airports.
I read the NTSB docket on this one I feel for all 3 onboard. So many Cirrus accidents occur during landing due to not watching speed. If you look at her data from the plane she was below the flaps up stall speed more each attempt but she was in level flight. When they gave her those confusing instructions she had to make a turn and that's when the lack of speed caught up to her. It hit so hard on top of that car it set off the CAPS parachute rocket.
I can suggest that you not get yourself in this predicament either, judging from your comments. people don't seem to realize how much information they reveal about themselves with their comments.
@@chucklemasters6433 Are you ok ? I said I feel for her. She was going to visit a family member with cancer. Had they let her land the second attempt since she was at the runway instead sending her around for faster traffic behind her she would have landed. Im saying her speed kept decreasing because she was task saturated trying to follow their confusing instructions and let her speed get too low.
your comments indicate that you have no clue how to fit a bug smasher into the flow of traffic at a class bravo airport. i'm trying to explain to you that if you have the ability to fly the plane and do something else at the same time and understand how to listen to radio to develop a picture of what is going on at the time you are trying to land then these instructions from the tower were not complicated at all. you have made it insanely clear that neither her or you have that ability. if you comment again i will not be willing to waste my time trying to explain it to you again. you will have to go out and get enought experience which is the ONLY way to truly understand what i'm saying. you will need to get a job flying for money every day to ever understand.. she could have easily landed on the first attempt if she had the faintest clue how to do it. i only say these things because they are FACTS. plus i can't stand when people blame controllers for incompetent pilots.
@@chucklemasters6433 Stop talking your going to end up in one of these fatals with that attitude I don't care if you respond or not. You sound like an old know it all pilot that will end up being a smoking hole in the ground.
@@Darkvirgo88xx at least i'm not demonstrating my ignorance with my comments! it is you who are far more likely to get in trouble in an aircraft, you should stick to bicycles.
She had much more patience than I would’ve had. I’m pretty easy going, but this controller seemed obsessed with giving priority to the airliners. She was really trying to play along and accommodate him, apparently to the point of neglecting her primary responsibility to FLY HER AIRPLANE! I expect the controller felt very bad about how things ended up, but that doesn’t help her. LESSON FOR ALL PILOTS You can try to be accommodating to others, but never forget your primary responsibility. If someone is jerking you around, stand up for yourself! Politely remind ATC that, barring an emergency, they can’t discriminate. Tell them you need a phone number when you get on the ground and take it offline. If you think your safety is at stake, the words UNABLE and CANTCO will get the message across. If all else fails, just go to another airport
this comment makes it obvious that you don't know anything about flying in bravo airspace especially at peak hours. controllers ONLY mistake was not telling her to get lost and go to an airport where she can handle the traffic. this was totally on this pilot and would have happened no matter who the controllers were. she can't even follow the most BASIC instructions. and she can't handle the airplane she was PIC in either. she was probably going to kill herself somewhere else if not there. her worst problem NOT KNOWING HER LIMITATIONS. this has killed a lot of people not just pilots.
@@chucklemasters6433 Absolutely correct. Everyone shitting on the controller is completely clueless. She couldn't even fly a simple downwind. Complete incompetence and a hazard to other airplanes. I agree; she was an accident waiting to happen.
Can you really not see this accident was mostly a pilot's fault? ATC was definitely in the wrong here as well, and it doesn't feel comfy to speak ill of the dead, but given how this went, she really had no business flying into that Class B airport. When flying a single-engine piston into a Class B airport, you need to be right on top of your game, part of it is also remembering you are solely responsible for yourself and your plane, you cannot outsource that responsibility to ATC.
It seems like on the second approach, she failed to lose altitude. The pilot was also having a hard time flying a consistent pattern.The atc controller cannot fly the plane for her. From what I can tell atc, did an okay job. As a GA pilot, I don't think she was getting the big picture of fitting in with larger aircraft and adjusting her speed accordingly.Maybe if she felt overwhelmed, she could have declared an emergency.
for everyone who is saying make the 737's go around.. How would you like all of your airline airfare to be about 30% higher.. miss connecting flights regularly.. lose more luggage.. experience much longer delays at the gate.. you people have no idea about why the GA aircraft always get's flipped.. if you are going to flight plan into a bravo.. be prepared and qualified to fly in a bravo.. which means keeping speeds up.. getting called to go around.. change runways.. and stay out of the way of big jets.. it costs between $1000-$1500 in fuel to send a 737 around.. not to mention the ripple effect of the delays.. you can't prioritize a GA flight unless it's an emergency.. the revenue the airlines bring to a big airport way outweighs the GA aircraft.. therefore they expect, and rightfully so, to get priority over GA ops..
Then Congress should come up with a bill to disallow GA aircraft flying into Class B airspace. Because if you don't fly into Class B airspace, how are you ever going to learn how to fly into Class B airspace? So, just forget about it. Ban it. Oh yeah...I think the controller was jerking her around, largely to blame.
@@aprilkurtz1589 you can learn to fly in class B airspace... infact, I'm from Houston and got a lot of tower experience flying into/out of Hobby.. I fly GA into Class B all the time.. I had landed on rwy 4 that same day just a short time before this incident.. we were sitting on the ramp listening to radio traffic when it happened.. this pilot was just not prepared.. and she shouldn't have even attempted to fly into a busy airport around Heavy Jet ops.. ... but, even though she showed up unprepared.. the controller still bent over backward to accommodate her and still was when she spun in.. a tragedy.. yes.. but you have to know your limitations and fly within them.. her mistake was raising the flaps too early on the go around and in a turn.. had she done this with zero traffic she would have spun in... the airspeed wasn't high enough to retract the flaps.. being in a turn just compounded the issue.. in no way is that the controllers fault... the #1 rule of flying is... FLY THE AIRPLANE.. she failed to do so.. it really didn't matter that she was in a class B or not.. pulling the flaps at 58kts indicated.. that cirrus is coming down.. had she got up to ~85kts then pulled the flaps, she would have had another chance at an approach..
@@texastyrannyresponseteam794 Yessir. She was low time. Untrained in high speed approaches. Way, way, way behind the airplane... and Baytown KHPY 6-7 nautical miles to the east. Get an Uber. Go about their day.
@@rickashford4005if I recall.. they were headed to the medical center.. making hobby the closest... but with her lack of experience... Sugarland KSGR, or Pearland KLVJ, La Porte T41, Houston Southwest KAXH,even Ellington KEFD... all close enough... KIWS... KDWH... or, like you said.. Baytown.. any would be better than crashing.. it's a shame.. she just got behind the airplane and got slow.. mistakes made..
@@rickashford4005 Agreed... I believe they were headed to the medical center.. . so Hobby was the closest.. , but she should have chosen Sugarland KSGR, La Porte T41, Pearland KLVJ, Houston SW KAXH, even Ellington KEFD or Baytown.. like you said.. By car.. Ellington/Pearland would have been the next closest.. but SGR would have been easy too, straight shot up 90.. hell.. even IWS, DWH.. any of them would be better than crashing..
I think the controller should have let her land and have the airliner do a go around . She was already on final so she was ahead of the airliner so she should have landed first. I remember going into Toronto International airport and I missed the runway however the controllers were very good got me turned around to line up with 05 and it was fine.
Terrible prejudiced headline. When a pilot loses control on a go-around in super busy airspace wanting to get squeezed in it’s not ATC’s fault (they just shouldn’t have tried to accommodate her to begin with)
Terrible controllers and and pilot should not let them push her around. Approach controller should not let the 737 get that close to cirrus. Unbelievable. She’s to nice and clearly not in control.
How is any of this ATC's fault? She was completely incompetent from the beginning and repeatedly did not follow his instructions. I feel bad for the controller, having to deal with her not following instructions and creating conflict with the other aircraft. She had absolutely no control of her lateral and vertical profiles. She couldn't even do a simple circuit. I've been flying for 40 years (35 professionally). The controller did nothing wrong.
@@georgehardie2016 It is perfectly fine for a competent pilot. My home field of KTPA gives circling clearance to RWY 28 all the time for smaller aircraft going to Signature and Sheltair, it's actually a pretty common practice.
@@georgehardie2016 Well, if you don't follow your clearances and instead infringe on other aircraft's flight paths, you're going to get "bounced," as you call it. All of these changes were caused by her. ATC was just making safe corrects to her sporadic clearance violations to prevent an accident. The only thing that was not okay was the fact that somebody gave her a pilot's license or signed her off to solo in an airplane that was well beyond her skill level (which was pretty freaking low, TBH).
@@georgehardie2016 that's how it works when you fly into a bravo in a slow aircraft... she was having a problem with flying a fast approach.. and that's needed to file in between airliners.. the controller was more than patient and bent over backward trying to accommodate her in spite of her lack of experience.. that being said... she still needed to fly the airplane... she made the mistake of retracting her flaps at an airspeed too slow... and in a turn.. a fatal mistake made.. it's 100% pilot error.. the controller was great..
Every time I listen to this I get angrier. Worst possible ATC you could have. Human Chatty Cathy Doll. He should be on AM talk radio, not controlling aircraft.
No, what they should have done is told her "Not cleared to enter class B airspace". Thats what they should have done. The crash is horrible, but she had absolutely no business trying to go in there, period.
@@jpjet Not if she's incompetent and creating a hazard to other aircraft. She's a little girl trying to roll with the big boys. How'd that work out for her?
@@jpjet She may have had the "right" but not the skill or experience. She died as a result of her lack of experience, nothing more nothing less. The ATC vectors you around but it is still on the pilot to make the call to go around or not. At ANY time she could have asked for vectors out of the Class B and gone to a less busy airport, and that is exactly what she should have done after the second go around.
the controller was doing a great job trying to help her get in.. very patient and bending over backward to help.. she just didn't have the experience to keep up in the Bravo.. low time pilot... unfamiliar airport.. mixing it up with airliners.. she never had to fly the type approaches necessary and didn't have situational awareness to know exactly where she was and needed to be.. the controller was doing his best.. she just lost control by retracting her flaps with airspeed too low.. in a turn.. deadly mistake.. not even close to the controllers fault... that's all on her.. at any time she could have diverted to an airport with less traffic.. but they wanted to land there because of its proximity to the Texas Medical Center.. their destination.. she never should have been trying to get in there with her level of competence.. that being said.. had she not retracted her flaps when she did.. she may have made the next approach and been alive today..
It's simple after the first go around get your shit together do a long down wind get set up untill it's safe to do your fight base don't get behind the airplane take your time or find an alternate airport fcb
@@Flight_Follower no, this is what it's like when you fly into a major airport as a slow moving GA aircraft. She could have elected not to try and land at a high traffic commercial airport, she could have elected to go somewhere else if she felt like this was too much for her. The fact is is that she crashed because of a loss of control. She got flustered and lost control of her aircraft. unfortunately this is the most common reason women crash airplanes. The statistics are very clear on that. men typically bite off more than they can chew like thinking they are gonna fly through stormy weather and end up breaking the wings off of the airplane. Women are much more conservative and don't make overconfident decisions. however, when women become task saturated or have fear, they tend to lose control of the airplane. This is not a new story. And the controllers are not to blame. they babied her like a child through the entire experience. I have never had a controller sweet talk me like that. This is my problem with aviation and women. Do I think women can be good pilots, yes absolutely. My problem is from the time a girl and in this case a pretty one walks onto the airport from her first flight instructor, to ATC will treat her like a child and encourage her along the way, girl power. And then they find themselves in a situation that they are untrained for and unprepared for. There are some professions you just can't make exceptions to the rule. flight training must be more serious than just, "OK you're fine, no you're doing great. OK, oh you're OK, keep up the good job." It's like everybody rules out the red carpet leading to her death. I have seen many many good women and girls die because everybody around them wants to encourage her little boss babe delusions.
Why is this still popping up in feed after several yrs? The controllers were 60% at fault but so too was the pilot, she made some bad decisions that could have changed it all.
turns out there were a truckload of ignorant fools who needed to let everyone know how amazing their willingness to comment was in spite of their lack of any knowledge of the subject
Yeah, this one is bad, she really had no business in there and they just abused her. If memory serves she was on her way to visit either someone in the hospital or a funeral, can't remember. It's no excuse to lose control and crash a plane tho. I would have had some real choice words for said controllers....exited the bravo and landed at a smaller GA airport nearby. Busy Bravo airspace and field is no place for a timid GA pilot.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 There are many Part 121 pilots arguing with controllers on here. Guess those pilots are incompetent too? I think it's the other way around.
That was criminal on the controller. With Hobby being Southwest hub he kept diverting the aircraft. I would have diverted to Ellington on an emergency low fuel.
@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 I agree with you but he should have noticed the amateur responses then directed her to Ellington. Being a tower controller is stressful but my point was he should have recognized the inexperience.
Yes the controllers had her head spinning, but it's her responsibility , and her's alone, to contine to fly the aircraft. She should have never attempted to go into that airport in the first place. It's my understanding that this was her first attempt to go into this class of airfield. She seemed lost to me from the start talking to the controllers. Such a sad, sad ending.
wow... still many people in here arguing that the controller was at fault.. NO NO NO... most of you aren't versed in aviation, yes a few are.. it seems.. let's look at this in the totality of the facts... let's start with the pilot.. just over 300 hours.. private, no instrument rating... so they were on a VFR flight plan.. this offers no advance sequencing from way far out... or the option of precision approaches.. we will circle back to this in a minute.. now, back to the pilot.. low time, used to operating out of small fields.. not used to mixing with heavy turbine closely scheduled part 121 ops.. she's used to flying the slower approaches she learned... now, another tidbit of information.. may or may not be a factor.. there was no record of her previous BFR... so technically she was flying illegally.. if she was having issues flying, controlling, handling the aircraft.. that flight review might have indicated it and she might have received some additional flight instruction.. we don't know how competent she was because that flight review doesn't appear to have happened.. we will never know... but it's apparent from the ATC tapes and flight tracks.. she was having difficulty flying the approaches this day at this airport.. that's a given.. now.. the controller.. the airport... part 91 GA vs part 121 airline ops.. for those of you who don't understand... small, slow airplanes like hers were operated under what's called part 91.. less regulated, less rules, the way most all private flights in small planes are conducted.. airlines are part 121.. that's the rule set that governs their operations.. highly regulated.. to insure safety and smooth timely scheduled flights.. they want to get you there on time, in one piece, making your connecting flights.. as efficiently as possible.. IE.. burning as little fuel as possible.. a simple go around in a 737 can cost over $1000 in fuel alone.. not to mention what the delays can do at the gate.. missed connecting flights.. ripple effect... lost luggage.. etc.. all things that we as passengers, and we as pilots don't want to happen.. if you start giving VFR part 91 flights priority over scheduled airline flights.. ticket prices will go up.. flights missed.. longer waits at the gate.. it's just not good.. so at these airports that serve airlines.. the airlines are given priority over private flights.. they pay more to use the airport.. their timely operations, or lack of, affect more people... you just cannot stop and cater to a newby pilkot who can't fly their plane and make the entire airline ecosystem wait.. ATC has these IFR flights sequenced starting way way out.. hundreds of miles before the airport.. small VFR flights are "fit in" and that's just the system we work within.. this flight would have eventually landed safely if the pilot wouldn't have made the flap error causing the stall and crash.. the controller was doing all he could to accommodate her.. he was actually quite patient under the circumstances.. he continued to allow her to fumble around and miss approaches.. keeping her clear of other planes.. giving her multiple chances to land on either runway... trying to help her get on the ground.. this video IS titled wrong.. it's clickbait.. seems to be this channel's MO... or maybe they just don't know any better.. regardless.. this is pilot error, plain and simple.. anyone being critical of the controller or system just doesn't grasp how and why the system is setup like it is.. this accident was avoidable.. in several ways... 1. pilot shouldn't have stalled.. pilot error.. 2. pilot should have chosen a more suitable airport instead of the closest one.. pilot error.. 3. pilot should have filed an IFR flight plan to take advantage of sequencing and precision approaches.. pilot not rated to use instruments. 4. pilot could have planned the arrival at a low traffic time.. avoiding heavy jet traffic.. pilot error.. 5. pilot could have been more proficient in regards to operating her aircraft in busy airspace... IE.. keeping her speed up on approach and not blowing the approach either too high or too slow for traffic.. pilot error.. as you see.. there's just no way to hang this on the controller.. they did their jobs.. both of them.. had she been IFR rated.. she possibly could have navigated a GPS or ILS approach and received spacing and precision guidance.. but she wasn't qualified.. back to a series of bad decisions by the pilot to continue to try to get into hobby whe she wasn't qualified, subsequently losing control on a go around by not flying the aircraft 1st and foremost.. i don't know how to be any more clear about what happened and why it's not the controller's fault....
i will now repeat what you just said in ONE sentence. SHE DID NOT HAVE A SINGLE CLUE WHAT SHE WAS DOING. oh let me add she also had no idea of her limitations. deadly btw. the rest of you dufus's blaming the tower STFU!
Being an atc specialist for over 20 years I certainly don't condone the control coming from the tower that day. However, the pilot allowed that controller to control her to a no fuel situation. She was in command of the aircraft and it was her responsibility to get that aircraft on the ground safely. Controller should have been fired. Pilots need at times to be assertive. It goes both ways. Controllers are not gods, and neither are pilots. They need to work together, something that's not very common in general aviation. Pilots, do NOT hesitate to tell a Controller what you need to do to operate and land safely. Controllers, you need to keep up with your situational awareness of operations at all times. Where was the facility/shift or tower supervisor when this was going on? Were they supervising???
@@daviduhlir5655controller doesn’t need to be fired. He tried. She was confused and shouldn’t have been there. She screwed up and she stalled the aircraft. This is not an ATC failure.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 Yes, the stall was her fault. Her being in that position at all was the controller's fault. She was on short final, and the other aircraft should have been told to go around.
Yet again a case of incompetents for ATC! They literally killed her. What on earth are they doing? Just sequence her for Runway 4 and get the correct separation for her. Unbelievable :(
wasn't the controllers fault at all.. 100% pilot error.. she got slow and retracted the flaps.. stall/spin.. the controller was doing all he could.. she couldn't fly the approaches fast.. low time pilot.. no experience in a bravo.. he tried to accommodate her.. she just lost it.
NOT THE CONTROLLERS FAULT... IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM... she was in over her head in a class B... she was disoriented.. couldn't control the airspeed.. stall/spun it in.. the controller was very good.. patient.. and gave her several chances to land.. and would have again had she not lost it.. ugh.. WHY THE FAKE NEWS TITLE??
Go ahead and flame me but why should she go around because they didn’t space her correctly with a jet. Then after that at least provide her with a proper plan that she can execute and not all these maybe’s
no need to flame you.. its simple.. she needed to fly her approaches faster than she was used to.. she wasn't used to flying into large airports with jet traffic... when you do, you have to fly your approach much faster when its busy.. the jets are spaced out according to their speeds.. when they sequence you in you have to keep up.. or go around.. like she had to because she didn't know how to land when coming in fast.. then.. on that last go around she made a mistake.. she retracted her flaps while flying too slow.. caused a stall.. the controller was doing everything he could to accommodate her.. taking alot of time to help her get in around the airliners.. he was doing a great job.. she just didn't have the experience to get it done.. then made that fatal mistake with the flaps... 100% pilot error... she could have went to a smaller airport... at any time.. and should have in the 1st place.. even with her troubles... had she not made the flap mistake.. she might have made it in the next time around.. it's a shame.. but not the controllers fault.. at all..
@@texastyrannyresponseteam794 why should she change her standard operating procedure to accommodate faster moving airplanes? Would you except 200 to the markers? I get what you are saying. End of the day it’s pilot error. However after the 5th failed attempt they should have given her more space as it was clear she couldn’t handle it. She has every right to HOU as SWA and I don’t see why she needs to jeopardize her safety or comfort zone just to get a 737 in 20 seconds sooner. That happened to me 25 years ago at MCO in a PA28 and I recall the stress it put on me being in Bravo and having to be resequenced. I didn’t understand at that time either why I had to move for them.
@@BirdDog.120kts would have been OK.. enough to maintain separation... yes she had the right to land. but not impede operations for hundreds of people/ cost 10's of thousands of dollars in extra expenses... etc.. sure.. they would have worked her in with more room if traffic allowed... but that's just not how it works.. her 4 place cirrus doesn't take priority over airliners on a schedule.. with connecting flights on a schedule.. etc.. a prime example why a pilot might practice ops into a busy airport BEFORE hand... or at least practice speedy approaches... it's not a new concept... and rush hour isn't the time to learn.. this is why I commend the controller for being as patient with her as he was.. and continuing to help her after she showed she wasn't really up to the task of standard airmanship... and she probably would have made it in the next go round... had she not made the critical mistake with the flaps... it's a shame.. I was there too.. I had just landed a bit earlier... sitting on the ramp... waiting to head back out.
you are flamed because you are so totally unqualified to comment on this subject and the controllers have ZERO responsibility for her not knowing her limitations. how many times have you landed at bravo or charlie airports. your comments indicate no one. i feel sorry for the contollers if you pester them more than once.
@@chucklemasters6433 you are triggered. I’m going to guess 20,000 times over the last 30 years. Only a few a times in my life in a single engine plane.
ATC just being a giant pain in the ass , because GA aircraft bring no revenue into the airport - So they do this kind of thing to chase them off ! No doubt - Seen it before . $$$ money . The airport authority is sick of screwing around with general aviation . They see them as a Nuisance to their money making machine - Usually worse at a fast growing airport . 💥🔥👮♂️
DEI has no place in aviation. She couldn’t even fly downwind when given an instruction. This is definitely not on the controller. They can’t help someone who obviously isn’t experienced or skilled enough to fly in a busy class B
@texastyrannyresponseteam794 That might stand as a legal position. But the handling of that flight was unprofessional and incompetent. Fair enough, if the accident plane had been a nuisance, getting in the way by way of their own incompetence, there would be less sympathy. This was controller induced stress for no good reason. He should have said that they weren't going to get her safely inserted into the pattern. Because he didn't get her safely into the pattern until he'd messed her around and induced stress.
@@paulmatley8818 come on man. The controller was professional and competent. The problem was that she was confused and ATC tried to deal with her confusion. They tried to accommodate her and after the fact, the best thing would’ve been to not accommodate her and stick to the runway they wanted her on. But of course, that’s after the fact. They didn’t understand how confused she was.
Once ATC standards were lowered to improve diversity numbers, the standards stayed low for everyone. A new bottom was established for what is acceptable. It started in the 90s with a horrible program called “Train to Succeed”, and then the standards dropped to a new low with the obama administration’s biographical questionnaire. I realize this accident was several years ago, but what we’re seeing in recent ATC incidents/accidents is the result of decades of the incompetent training the incompetent while being supervised by the incompetent. Lower level management is powerless to do anything about it and upper management has their mandates given to them by the DEI and union loving administration. Based on 30 years of ATC experience at level 10-12 facilities.
@@MetaView7 good! the union, NATCA, has been a roadblock to progress for decades. AI may be the answer. For controllers to still be talking to pilots over radio frequencies, as the primary means of communicating information, at this point is ridiculous. Voice communication should’ve ended 15 years ago. The decision making should be ending now. Soon, the controller should only be the backup in the event of weather situations, equipment failures or emergencies. The control tower should be a thing of the past. It can all be accomplished better with cameras and sensors.
@@clinthanrahan859all BS. Because in the mean time, we are safer than ever. In 1983 we had 3500 accidents in a year out of roughly 10 million operations. In 2003 we had 2500 accidents out of 20 million operations. And in 2023 we had 650 accidents out of 40 million operations.
That was a load of bullshit right there..... After my first clearance to land, I would've landed.... Make the big boys go around, they have the $ for it.... Of course I never fly into Class B, ever..... Prop planes are in the way there.....
That clearance is only valid until ATC cancels that clearance and tells you to go around. You can't just land off old clearances. She shouldn't have been anywhere near that busy airport with her non-abilities.
@@chucklemasters6433 Probably for longer than you've been alive. What part of what I said do you disagree with? That amended clearances override and cancel out old clearances, or that she was incompetent? Don't let your feelings get in the way of facts.
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila sorry you did not understand my comments . i thought i made it clear that you are one of the precious few commenters on here that i agree with. there are very few of us who understand that the controllers have ZERO responsibility for this accident. please read all my other comments and the comments to you and tell me that you know we are in complete agreement. we must stick together because we are very few who don't want to blame ATC besides tequila is my favorite drink so please accept my apology. we might share some sips of a nice tequila one day who knows!
Yes the pilot could have trained and practiced at a less busy airport. But this significant over pressure by ATC was without doubt a contributing factor! They only seemed interest in revenue flights and arrogance!
This accident was covered on another channel and the big takeaway was her decision to fly into such a heavy and busy airspace and airport with little or no experience. You have to be experienced with the fast pace that happens and controllers can't spend much time guiding you as you can see heavy air craft are coming in every minute.
Speaking as a pilot, we have plenty of small enough airports in the United States to avoid the incredible danger of having these small single engine or even most smaller twin engine general aviation aircraft attempting to land in between these massive commercial aircraft. This is a perfect example of the massive speed disadvantage these smaller aircraft have and that is a minor
danger compared to the unseen wake turbulence created by the larger aircraft.
Not mention wind shear, sudden down drafts, jet wake turbulance, and distration from aviating three go arounds in a Cessna.
as i just said i can take a cub into any airport in the world without even causing a single extra ounce of workload for a controller. i say that because i've done it repeatedly. you just need to know how to handle your airplane and have an understanding of what is going on around you. it takes years flying at tower airports to develop the ability to understand the big picture at the airport and how you fit in. when you are maxed out just flying the plane that is impossible. she had neither of these skills. she was CLUELESS and if you can't understand that from the radio communications then you should not go there either. the small plane or the busy airport combination is NOT dangerous, it is the person at the controls. can you imagine being the husband or the other guy at her mercy?
@@chucklemasters6433 At ATC's mercy. . . listen to the recording again. 2:20 to 2:40 and tell me why ATC told her to follow the 737 and then turned he to the right instead of the left. She had a flight plan...or are airports just for airliners now. Why didnt ATC recommend a diversion to alternate airport. . . instead of running her around in circles. She trust ATC and he failed her!!
Nope. Speaking as a pilot. This is on both ATC and the pilot. An airport is an airport. They let her in the bravo and now they have to deal with her. She messed up by not telling ATC unable. She had the right of way more than once.
@@teddyherrera727 your comment clearly demonstrates your very limited knowledge of operations in class bravo airspace. controller does not have to do anything and should have told her on her first amateur attempt at landing to leave houston bravo a/s immediately. she had NO business there. what are you a pilot of MS simulator?
she stalled on the go-around? how is that ATCs fault?
Nothing in this video was ATC's fault. She shouldn't be flying a kite, let alone an airplane.
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila I agree this was mostly pilot responsiblity, but can you not see that ATC decisions were a contributing factor?
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila bs...2:20 the ATC asked her if she seen the 737 at 2 o'clock, she replied "yes"...then told her to proceed and follow in... on ATC recommendation. ATC then radio's to the 737 on the intent...of the little plane following them in . .. Then at 2:41 the derelict turner her to the left to 30 degrees both of the runways she was told to use were on her right. This is how it is ATC's fault.
@@jotegg1276 He gave her that left turn because she had totally botched the Rwy 35 downwind, which she had read back the clearance for. Instead, she blew that clearance and flew the downwind for Rwy 04.😖 This action put her in a position where she couldn't complete a normal circuit onto Rwy 35. She was about to fly through the Rwy 35 extended centerline at circuit altitude, heading southwest. Understand? Pretty much every change ATC gave her was related to her messing up a previous clearance. Despite all of the ATC attempts to get her in safely, the end result was that she stalled during her final Go Around (which she self-initiated because, for the second time, she couldn't manage her own vertical profile). She stalled because she pre-maturely retracted the flaps without attaining the proper speed. She also didn't know how to recover from a stall, so she killed herself and two others.
If you're a pilot, you know the priority order for your attention (Aviate, Navigate, Communicate). She failed to FLY the airplane in the end.
Not knowing about other following traffic but it seems that changing between intersecting runways 'on the fly' can be difficult to get altitude setup correct, especially for a low-time GA pilot. It seems to me that setting her up for right traffic on 35 and issuing one or more left 360s for spacing while in pattern would have lowered the workload a ton with two minute granularity.
you people don't seem to understand that busy commercial airports are for COMMERCIAL jet traffic. you must undertand how to fit a slow bug smasher in with those jets or you are screwed. i can take a cub into any airport in the world and never cause a single glitch. these new pilots who follow their instructors guidance on how to fly a pattern don't have a chance in bravo airspace because they fly the pattern in their slow little bug smasher like they are in a 747. the controllers or anybody else don't care one bit how you fly the pattern or pattern altitude if you don't interrupt the flow of the main traffic at the airport. they know from your first response on the radio your level of experience just like i know from a controllers first response if he is a newbie whether he is tower, ground, approach or center. when they give a landing clearance you better head directly to the numbers, get that thing on the ground and take the first available turnoff unless intructed otherwise. this means forget about the worthless patterns these new instructors teach because they don't know any better either!
The Cirrus pilot was in wayover her head, not enough training for the aircraft and environment. The only thing ATC could have done was recommend another nearby airport. She lacked command authority by letting ATC vector her around with those cross winds, just inexperienced and trying to please ...RIP .
An entirely avoidable tragedy. The question in my mind is this: Was the poor girl competent for this level of operations? This is to say, was she ready to be passed out of her training program?
I myself am I pretty low time PP SEL with little experience in Class B airspace and if I were flying that Cirrus and I made the call to land at that airport, after the second attempt to get in line didn't work out, I'm telling the tower to vector me OUT of the pattern and get me clear while I decide on an alternate place to go. She's too high, too close and too stressed to try and dive bomb for any runway. Get out of there and get re established when the traffic thins out and a safer hole is open or go elsewhere. Just too much going on here. I wouldn't have tried this more than twice.
one of the smartest comments i've seen on here so far. that's not really saying much.
This was tragic and so sad. She had to have been confused with all the go arounds and instructions. I know this doesn't fall all on the tower, but they didn't help the situation.
They have a busy airport with jet operations to contend with. ATC did a great job helping her, but she was beyond help - completely incompetent.
you just told us with your comment what you really know and it's not very much!
Class Bravo controllers don't like the smaller planes. I've landed at Tampa and Charlotte. The Charlotte controller told me to exit on a taxiway in the opposite direction and yelled at me when I didn't see it.
you are totally incorrect and you obviously don't know nearly enough to make an intelligent comment on this subject. controllers have absolutely NO opinion on airplanes of ANY size sir. it's the loose nut behind the yoke they have problems with and i don't blame them one bit! i can't believe how patient they are with idiots like you! they hate little airplanes you must be in second grade to come to that conclusion. like the previous commenter you have no idea what you are telling many of us with you assinine comments.
RIP. So very sad. But this isn’t on the controller- it’s pilot error- inexperienced pilot at very busy commercial airport dealing with jet traffic. Regardless of the different runway assignments, pilots primary duty is to control their aircraft- and she did not. BTW, light aircraft flying around heavy jets risk losing control due to wake turbulence- don’t know if that was a factor here, but the circumstances here suggest she may not have anticipated that risk either. As a former flight instructor and commuter airline pilot, I recommend general aviation pilots in light aircraft avoid all the major commercial airports if possible.
that is SO wrong on many levels sir. if you have the knowledge and experience you can fly a cub into any airport in the world and not cause ATC one single problem and they can tell after the first few words of your first transmission if you can handle it or not just like i know from the first few words from a controller if i should trust them or not. wake turbulence is no problem either if you have knowledge of how it behaves and how to avoid it. it is NOT the mix of planes or the busy airport that is the problem, it is the PIC!
@@chucklemasters6433 perhaps you can’t read - my first sentence: “ its pilot error.”
@@jimosborne2 yes jim did you read past MY first sentence? that is the ONLY sentence i agreed with you on. i have flown slow aircraft in class bravo and charlie airports many times without causing a single incident. if you understand wake turbulence and have the ability to see how you will fit into the flow of traffic before the tower even tells you then is is absolutely not unsafe in any way. sure pilots with 500 hours who have trouble landing their cirrus even at their home airport should never consider going into bravo or charlie and that is what you should have said but you didn't. what you said indicated that you believe nobody should take a bug smasher into those airports and that is clearly not correct information.
@@chucklemasters6433 I am not going to debate with someone who can’t read
@@jimosborne2 your first sentence is the ONLY one i agree with. you are correct she had no business there. where you continue to make a blanket statement that ALL GA pilots in single engine aircraft should not land at bravo airpots is nonsense. there are many competent experienced GA pilots who can land at bravo airports without making a nuisance of themselves. if you can't admit that this idea is preposterous then i won't debate you either!
Geez.. Probably a low time pilot trying to do her best to politely comply with ATC throwing curveballs at here one after the other. Being in Class B with heavy iron is damn stressful at the best of times. This makes me sick! Make the freaking 737 go around after you have given the landing clearance why don't ya?
Exactly, she was a very low time, (332.6 hours) private pilot, who got in over her head. She retracted the flaps too early, an airspeed below flap retraction speed, in a turn, exceeded the critical AoA.
@@rElliot09 yup stall/spin/die.. Ugh, even with 1500, hours Class B always got my attention. Yet they jerked her around because they couldn't sequence the traffic properly.. Absolutely tragic!
Why is everybody blaming the controller? and calling his actions "criminal"? She did not seem to be well oriented at that airport and got lost several times, making wrong turns etc. Could not slow down and descend in time to make the rwy, she was possibly overwhelmed. The controller tried helping her by giving her a different rwy clear of airline traffic (because she failed to follow simple speed instructions). This system works well only if both sides do their job. This is a tragedy, yes, but I don't get it why people are so quick to blame the controller for the pilot's stall. R.I.P.
@@frankish5314yes, they might not have made it easy on her, but they tried. She kept getting confused. Sorry, but this is on the pilot, not ATC.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 It didn't seem like she was confused. It seems like she was following the instructions given to her by the controller.
Sounded to me like ATC had problems with aircraft separation.
The controller should not of had the Cirrus overshoot on the initial approach, the 737 should have gone around, the cirrus had the right of way.
You dont know much about heavy operations do you. You should Educate youself!!
@@scotabot7826 unless the 737 had declared an emergency or was a Medivac flight, the cirrus which was on short final has the right of way. Otherwise prohibit GA airplanes from major airports. Toronto International Airport prohibits GA airplanes unless they are on an instrument flight plan or an emergency.
No... she should have deviated a few miles east to Baytown KHPY, easily landed, gotten Uber, and gone about their day.
Little piston poppers and big jets don't mix. This was on her... not the controllers.
"Not of had"?
@@koppilork Right? Jeez!
Controllers are not pilots. Folks need to remember that.
This is OLD news and ATC did not make a mistake. She STALLED.... ATC does not fly the plane. This title and the comments below show real ignorance. Yes they were jerking her around to sequence her in with busy airline arrivals. BUT she was not following instructions and confused. ATC was very very very helpful. Tragic. She died and killed 2 others. RIP
To use airline CRM terms she was deep in the red. She was jerked around so much that she began to lose situational awareness. They should have recognized this. No they don’t fly the plane but, they got her so flustered that she started to lose the ability to fly it. I’m a current corporate pilot a retired airline pilot with over 18k hours and a CFIIME. They aren’t totally responsible but, they could have done a much better job.
@@xcop11 Yes CRM but FAA calls it SRM Single-Pilot Resource Management for GA. I'm an airline pilot over 30 yrs, also still teach GA as a CF-II-ME at a local flying club I belong to. Lets not over think it. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. She got slow, low, stalled, did not or could not recover, I recalled spun in. ATC was not to blame.
I fly in and out Class B all the time, easy in an airliner on IFR flight plan, IAP (unless it's bad weather and JFJK). I have all kinds of strategies to land at class B VFR or IFR in a slower GA plane if needed. For sure if IFR don't fly 90kts. Learn how to fly a faster speed, like 120kts if able. For the most part I avoid busy times.
In my personal plane I pick satellite airports with no landing, ramp fees, lower fuel prices and no heavy iron wake turbulence. I recommend any pilot wanting to fly into a class B airport get training. A call to FAA ATC facility (approach or tower) is handy. You can always get clearance deliver by phone, they can direct you to who to call. VFR GA arrivals typically in my experience come in low on a base and make a short final and land. If spacing was not good they had me do a 360 degree. You have to be able to turn and maintain speed and altitude, pilot 101.
You are 1000 percent wrong
absolutely correct sir thank god somebody with a brain! she could have easily landed on her FIRST attempt if she had a single clue what was going on.
She didnt have to fly into the major airport, mistake #1, there were alternates narby, closer to her destination, so planning was not thorough.
Folks... this wasn't on the controllers. She was a low time pilot flying an airplane that you have to be proficient to stay ahead of the plane. She wasn't trained in high speed approaches. In my 30 years of flying light GA aircraft, I learned early on...little piston poppers and big jets don't mix. Had she deviated a few miles to the east, she could have easily landed at Baytown KHPY, and gotten an Uber. This was senseless, and I hate to say it... but she in way over her head.
@@rickashford4005 Yes, the big takeaway is these airports are extremely busy and fast paced with the heavy traffic and size of aircraft. They require GA pilots with quick decision making and handling of their planes. This blogger gave a terrible headline to attract viewers. As it wasn't the controllers job to get her down, she was to slow and didn't have confidence. He gave warnings about being to high and abort. Aviatate, Navigate and Communicate and above all stay away from heavy airports.
i say again you can fly a cub into the busiest airports in the world and not cause a single problem. well let me correct that probably not you either!
@@chucklemasters6433And I say you can make a smart ass comment on any platform. And particularly means you.
2:00 what did ATC say? 2:21 what was said then? 2:41 why did ATC turn her to the left away from the runways he gave her to land on....then ask her if that was where she wanted to land. The decision was already made....ATC eve radio'd the 737 with the little planes intent to follow them in...the 737 acknowledges ATC. So why again is it "not" ATC's fault. She was in a high stress moment and she was doing everything ATC told her to do... and was polite and not showing any stress. . . numbers on the screen is what matters no matter the size of the aircraft.
@@jotegg1276 You answered your own question. She shouldn't have been in a high stress situation because she shouldn't have even attempted to land or use class B airspace. It requires a fast pace decision making and quick reaction knowledge and abilities. The controllers jobs at these airports is not to carry her. She should have abandoned the plan and landed at another airport. You said she was polite, absolutely because she was treating it as a normal airport totally oblivious to the environment of class B airports.
I read the NTSB docket on this one I feel for all 3 onboard. So many Cirrus accidents occur during landing due to not watching speed. If you look at her data from the plane she was below the flaps up stall speed more each attempt but she was in level flight. When they gave her those confusing instructions she had to make a turn and that's when the lack of speed caught up to her. It hit so hard on top of that car it set off the CAPS parachute rocket.
I can suggest that you not get yourself in this predicament either, judging from your comments. people don't seem to realize how much information they reveal about themselves with their comments.
@@chucklemasters6433 Are you ok ? I said I feel for her. She was going to visit a family member with cancer. Had they let her land the second attempt since she was at the runway instead sending her around for faster traffic behind her she would have landed. Im saying her speed kept decreasing because she was task saturated trying to follow their confusing instructions and let her speed get too low.
your comments indicate that you have no clue how to fit a bug smasher into the flow of traffic at a class bravo airport. i'm trying to explain to you that if you have the ability to fly the plane and do something else at the same time and understand how to listen to radio to develop a picture of what is going on at the time you are trying to land then these instructions from the tower were not complicated at all. you have made it insanely clear that neither her or you have that ability. if you comment again i will not be willing to waste my time trying to explain it to you again. you will have to go out and get enought experience which is the ONLY way to truly understand what i'm saying. you will need to get a job flying for money every day to ever understand.. she could have easily landed on the first attempt if she had the faintest clue how to do it. i only say these things because they are FACTS. plus i can't stand when people blame controllers for incompetent pilots.
@@chucklemasters6433 Stop talking your going to end up in one of these fatals with that attitude I don't care if you respond or not. You sound like an old know it all pilot that will end up being a smoking hole in the ground.
@@Darkvirgo88xx at least i'm not demonstrating my ignorance with my comments! it is you who are far more likely to get in trouble in an aircraft, you should stick to bicycles.
It seems traffic patterns kill more pilots than engine failure. Stall spin after banking at slow speed and downwind a killer.
you sound too ignorant to even be a student pilot!
What the actual flip.flop happened there?
Pilot sounds lovely
Atc got a little ancy then got on top of it and was cool
Wtaf happened there?
Busy airport … confusion…RIP
Not ATC fault. You better know what you’re doing when around the big boys. This ain’t no joke
What on earth were they doing to her? Is this an April fools joke gone wrong? They bounced back and forth between 35 and 4 so many times I got dizzy
She had much more patience than I would’ve had. I’m pretty easy going, but this controller seemed obsessed with giving priority to the airliners. She was really trying to play along and accommodate him, apparently to the point of neglecting her primary responsibility to FLY HER AIRPLANE!
I expect the controller felt very bad about how things ended up, but that doesn’t help her.
LESSON FOR ALL PILOTS
You can try to be accommodating to others, but never forget your primary responsibility.
If someone is jerking you around, stand up for yourself! Politely remind ATC that, barring an emergency, they can’t discriminate. Tell them you need a phone number when you get on the ground and take it offline. If you think your safety is at stake, the words UNABLE and CANTCO will get the message across. If all else fails, just go to another airport
this comment makes it obvious that you don't know anything about flying in bravo airspace especially at peak hours. controllers ONLY mistake was not telling her to get lost and go to an airport where she can handle the traffic. this was totally on this pilot and would have happened no matter who the controllers were. she can't even follow the most BASIC instructions. and she can't handle the airplane she was PIC in either. she was probably going to kill herself somewhere else if not there. her worst problem NOT KNOWING HER LIMITATIONS. this has killed a lot of people not just pilots.
@@chucklemasters6433 Absolutely correct. Everyone shitting on the controller is completely clueless. She couldn't even fly a simple downwind. Complete incompetence and a hazard to other airplanes. I agree; she was an accident waiting to happen.
Can you really not see this accident was mostly a pilot's fault? ATC was definitely in the wrong here as well, and it doesn't feel comfy to speak ill of the dead, but given how this went, she really had no business flying into that Class B airport. When flying a single-engine piston into a Class B airport, you need to be right on top of your game, part of it is also remembering you are solely responsible for yourself and your plane, you cannot outsource that responsibility to ATC.
you must get dizzy trying to spell your name
Sad for everyone
It seems like on the second approach, she failed to lose altitude. The pilot was also having a hard time flying a consistent pattern.The atc controller cannot fly the plane for her. From what I can tell atc, did an okay job. As a GA pilot, I don't think she was getting the big picture of fitting in with larger aircraft and adjusting her speed accordingly.Maybe if she felt overwhelmed, she could have declared an emergency.
correct the only mistake tower made was not instructing her to leave the houston class bravo immediately.
for everyone who is saying make the 737's go around.. How would you like all of your airline airfare to be about 30% higher.. miss connecting flights regularly.. lose more luggage.. experience much longer delays at the gate.. you people have no idea about why the GA aircraft always get's flipped.. if you are going to flight plan into a bravo.. be prepared and qualified to fly in a bravo.. which means keeping speeds up.. getting called to go around.. change runways.. and stay out of the way of big jets.. it costs between $1000-$1500 in fuel to send a 737 around.. not to mention the ripple effect of the delays.. you can't prioritize a GA flight unless it's an emergency.. the revenue the airlines bring to a big airport way outweighs the GA aircraft.. therefore they expect, and rightfully so, to get priority over GA ops..
Then Congress should come up with a bill to disallow GA aircraft flying into Class B airspace. Because if you don't fly into Class B airspace, how are you ever going to learn how to fly into Class B airspace? So, just forget about it. Ban it. Oh yeah...I think the controller was jerking her around, largely to blame.
@@aprilkurtz1589 you can learn to fly in class B airspace... infact, I'm from Houston and got a lot of tower experience flying into/out of Hobby.. I fly GA into Class B all the time.. I had landed on rwy 4 that same day just a short time before this incident.. we were sitting on the ramp listening to radio traffic when it happened.. this pilot was just not prepared.. and she shouldn't have even attempted to fly into a busy airport around Heavy Jet ops.. ... but, even though she showed up unprepared.. the controller still bent over backward to accommodate her and still was when she spun in.. a tragedy.. yes.. but you have to know your limitations and fly within them.. her mistake was raising the flaps too early on the go around and in a turn.. had she done this with zero traffic she would have spun in... the airspeed wasn't high enough to retract the flaps.. being in a turn just compounded the issue.. in no way is that the controllers fault... the #1 rule of flying is... FLY THE AIRPLANE.. she failed to do so.. it really didn't matter that she was in a class B or not.. pulling the flaps at 58kts indicated.. that cirrus is coming down.. had she got up to ~85kts then pulled the flaps, she would have had another chance at an approach..
@@texastyrannyresponseteam794 Yessir. She was low time. Untrained in high speed approaches. Way, way, way behind the airplane... and Baytown KHPY 6-7 nautical miles to the east. Get an Uber. Go about their day.
@@rickashford4005if I recall.. they were headed to the medical center.. making hobby the closest... but with her lack of experience... Sugarland KSGR, or Pearland KLVJ, La Porte T41, Houston Southwest KAXH,even Ellington KEFD... all close enough... KIWS... KDWH... or, like you said.. Baytown.. any would be better than crashing.. it's a shame.. she just got behind the airplane and got slow.. mistakes made..
@@rickashford4005 Agreed... I believe they were headed to the medical center.. . so Hobby was the closest.. , but she should have chosen Sugarland KSGR, La Porte T41, Pearland KLVJ, Houston SW KAXH, even Ellington KEFD or Baytown.. like you said.. By car.. Ellington/Pearland would have been the next closest.. but SGR would have been easy too, straight shot up 90.. hell.. even IWS, DWH.. any of them would be better than crashing..
I think the controller should have let her land and have the airliner do a go around . She was already on final so she was ahead of the airliner so she should have landed first. I remember going into Toronto International airport and I missed the runway however the controllers were very good got me turned around to line up with 05 and it was fine.
yet another haggle tooth genius who knows nothing yet can't control his mouth. better get back to walmart before they close.
Air Traffic Control without the control.
He was fine. The pilot was not fine.
that comment means absolutely nothing to me. can you translate for us non alcoholics?
Terrible prejudiced headline. When a pilot loses control on a go-around in super busy airspace wanting to get squeezed in it’s not ATC’s fault (they just shouldn’t have tried to accommodate her to begin with)
Imo this is the pilot’s lack of proficiency
Front plane on final has right of way? Right?
Terrible controllers and and pilot should not let them push her around. Approach controller should not let the 737 get that close to cirrus. Unbelievable. She’s to nice and clearly not in control.
you are clearly a total ignorant moron. unbelievable comment. you just moved the top of the stupid comments list
There is lots of blame to go around on this one. The swiss cheese had so many chances to prevent the outcome.
How is any of this ATC's fault? She was completely incompetent from the beginning and repeatedly did not follow his instructions. I feel bad for the controller, having to deal with her not following instructions and creating conflict with the other aircraft. She had absolutely no control of her lateral and vertical profiles. She couldn't even do a simple circuit. I've been flying for 40 years (35 professionally). The controller did nothing wrong.
Bouncing her all over place yeah that’s ok lol
@@georgehardie2016 It is perfectly fine for a competent pilot. My home field of KTPA gives circling clearance to RWY 28 all the time for smaller aircraft going to Signature and Sheltair, it's actually a pretty common practice.
@@georgehardie2016 Well, if you don't follow your clearances and instead infringe on other aircraft's flight paths, you're going to get "bounced," as you call it. All of these changes were caused by her. ATC was just making safe corrects to her sporadic clearance violations to prevent an accident. The only thing that was not okay was the fact that somebody gave her a pilot's license or signed her off to solo in an airplane that was well beyond her skill level (which was pretty freaking low, TBH).
@@georgehardie2016 that's how it works when you fly into a bravo in a slow aircraft... she was having a problem with flying a fast approach.. and that's needed to file in between airliners.. the controller was more than patient and bent over backward trying to accommodate her in spite of her lack of experience.. that being said... she still needed to fly the airplane... she made the mistake of retracting her flaps at an airspeed too slow... and in a turn.. a fatal mistake made.. it's 100% pilot error.. the controller was great..
GA aircraft shouldn’t be allowed to land at big airports unless emergency
idiot!
I think she was in way over her head and she should have gone to a smaller airport.
Every time I listen to this I get angrier. Worst possible ATC you could have. Human Chatty Cathy Doll. He should be on AM talk radio, not controlling aircraft.
No, what they should have done is told her "Not cleared to enter class B airspace". Thats what they should have done. The crash is horrible, but she had absolutely no business trying to go in there, period.
@@scotabot7826 she had just as much right to go to that airport as any other plane.
@@jpjet Not if she's incompetent and creating a hazard to other aircraft. She's a little girl trying to roll with the big boys. How'd that work out for her?
@@jpjet She may have had the "right" but not the skill or experience. She died as a result of her lack of experience, nothing more nothing less. The ATC vectors you around but it is still on the pilot to make the call to go around or not. At ANY time she could have asked for vectors out of the Class B and gone to a less busy airport, and that is exactly what she should have done after the second go around.
the controller was doing a great job trying to help her get in.. very patient and bending over backward to help.. she just didn't have the experience to keep up in the Bravo.. low time pilot... unfamiliar airport.. mixing it up with airliners.. she never had to fly the type approaches necessary and didn't have situational awareness to know exactly where she was and needed to be.. the controller was doing his best.. she just lost control by retracting her flaps with airspeed too low.. in a turn.. deadly mistake.. not even close to the controllers fault... that's all on her.. at any time she could have diverted to an airport with less traffic.. but they wanted to land there because of its proximity to the Texas Medical Center.. their destination.. she never should have been trying to get in there with her level of competence.. that being said.. had she not retracted her flaps when she did.. she may have made the next approach and been alive today..
Seems like there’s a lot of that going on lately. What changed?
There is no increase or whatsoever. Just that more stuff is available on social media to see.
the FAA and flight instructors are ultimately responsible.
These etc people are do patronising and cost these passengers their lives. They must be dismissed ...never work again
my god the stupidity is staggering. you must be a harris walz supporter?
It's simple after the first go around get your shit together do a long down wind get set up untill it's safe to do your fight base don't get behind the airplane take your time or find an alternate airport fcb
The actions of that so-called "Controller" were nothing short of criminal. RIP, 4252G 🙏
RIP
@@Flight_Follower no, this is what it's like when you fly into a major airport as a slow moving GA aircraft. She could have elected not to try and land at a high traffic commercial airport, she could have elected to go somewhere else if she felt like this was too much for her. The fact is is that she crashed because of a loss of control. She got flustered and lost control of her aircraft. unfortunately this is the most common reason women crash airplanes. The statistics are very clear on that. men typically bite off more than they can chew like thinking they are gonna fly through stormy weather and end up breaking the wings off of the airplane. Women are much more conservative and don't make overconfident decisions. however, when women become task saturated or have fear, they tend to lose control of the airplane. This is not a new story. And the controllers are not to blame. they babied her like a child through the entire experience. I have never had a controller sweet talk me like that. This is my problem with aviation and women. Do I think women can be good pilots, yes absolutely. My problem is from the time a girl and in this case a pretty one walks onto the airport from her first flight instructor, to ATC will treat her like a child and encourage her along the way, girl power. And then they find themselves in a situation that they are untrained for and unprepared for. There are some professions you just can't make exceptions to the rule. flight training must be more serious than just, "OK you're fine, no you're doing great. OK, oh you're OK, keep up the good job." It's like everybody rules out the red carpet leading to her death. I have seen many many good women and girls die because everybody around them wants to encourage her little boss babe delusions.
What a silly, silly comment to make!!
Stupid and silly. Pilot stalled and crashed. This is all the pilot’s doing.
Sadly 11 other people agree with your ignorant comment.
They killed her
I remember watching this RIP. Houston Bravo is probably my least favourite controllers in the country
thanks for telling us how little you know
Why is this still popping up in feed after several yrs? The controllers were 60% at fault but so too was the pilot, she made some bad decisions that could have changed it all.
100% pilot error.. the controller was flawless
turns out there were a truckload of ignorant fools who needed to let everyone know how amazing their willingness to comment was in spite of their lack of any knowledge of the subject
Yeah, this one is bad, she really had no business in there and they just abused her. If memory serves she was on her way to visit either someone in the hospital or a funeral, can't remember. It's no excuse to lose control and crash a plane tho. I would have had some real choice words for said controllers....exited the bravo and landed at a smaller GA airport nearby. Busy Bravo airspace and field is no place for a timid GA pilot.
TH-cam is full of videos of pilots arguing with incompetent controllers.
@@bobmcgehee1749no, youtube is full of people without knowledge having comments about controller or pilots they feel are incompetent.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 ? My airport is an FAA training facility for ATC. I’ve heard all kind of idiotic things from them on Comms.
don't you think you've had enough to drink tonight sir?
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 There are many Part 121 pilots arguing with controllers on here. Guess those pilots are incompetent too? I think it's the other way around.
That was criminal on the controller. With Hobby being Southwest hub he kept diverting the aircraft. I would have diverted to Ellington on an emergency low fuel.
Nothing criminal about it. This was on the pilot. Pilot stalled and crashed.
@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 I agree with you but he should have noticed the amateur responses then directed her to Ellington. Being a tower controller is stressful but my point was he should have recognized the inexperience.
thanks for telling us how little you know about it
Yes the controllers had her head spinning, but it's her responsibility , and her's alone, to contine to fly the aircraft. She should have never attempted to go into that airport in the first place. It's my understanding that this was her first attempt to go into this class of airfield. She seemed lost to me from the start talking to the controllers. Such a sad, sad ending.
she was clueless that's corrrect
wow... still many people in here arguing that the controller was at fault.. NO NO NO... most of you aren't versed in aviation, yes a few are.. it seems.. let's look at this in the totality of the facts... let's start with the pilot.. just over 300 hours.. private, no instrument rating... so they were on a VFR flight plan.. this offers no advance sequencing from way far out... or the option of precision approaches.. we will circle back to this in a minute.. now, back to the pilot.. low time, used to operating out of small fields.. not used to mixing with heavy turbine closely scheduled part 121 ops.. she's used to flying the slower approaches she learned... now, another tidbit of information.. may or may not be a factor.. there was no record of her previous BFR... so technically she was flying illegally.. if she was having issues flying, controlling, handling the aircraft.. that flight review might have indicated it and she might have received some additional flight instruction.. we don't know how competent she was because that flight review doesn't appear to have happened.. we will never know... but it's apparent from the ATC tapes and flight tracks.. she was having difficulty flying the approaches this day at this airport.. that's a given.. now.. the controller.. the airport... part 91 GA vs part 121 airline ops.. for those of you who don't understand... small, slow airplanes like hers were operated under what's called part 91.. less regulated, less rules, the way most all private flights in small planes are conducted.. airlines are part 121.. that's the rule set that governs their operations.. highly regulated.. to insure safety and smooth timely scheduled flights.. they want to get you there on time, in one piece, making your connecting flights.. as efficiently as possible.. IE.. burning as little fuel as possible.. a simple go around in a 737 can cost over $1000 in fuel alone.. not to mention what the delays can do at the gate.. missed connecting flights.. ripple effect... lost luggage.. etc.. all things that we as passengers, and we as pilots don't want to happen.. if you start giving VFR part 91 flights priority over scheduled airline flights.. ticket prices will go up.. flights missed.. longer waits at the gate.. it's just not good.. so at these airports that serve airlines.. the airlines are given priority over private flights.. they pay more to use the airport.. their timely operations, or lack of, affect more people... you just cannot stop and cater to a newby pilkot who can't fly their plane and make the entire airline ecosystem wait.. ATC has these IFR flights sequenced starting way way out.. hundreds of miles before the airport.. small VFR flights are "fit in" and that's just the system we work within.. this flight would have eventually landed safely if the pilot wouldn't have made the flap error causing the stall and crash.. the controller was doing all he could to accommodate her.. he was actually quite patient under the circumstances.. he continued to allow her to fumble around and miss approaches.. keeping her clear of other planes.. giving her multiple chances to land on either runway... trying to help her get on the ground.. this video IS titled wrong.. it's clickbait.. seems to be this channel's MO... or maybe they just don't know any better.. regardless.. this is pilot error, plain and simple.. anyone being critical of the controller or system just doesn't grasp how and why the system is setup like it is.. this accident was avoidable.. in several ways... 1. pilot shouldn't have stalled.. pilot error.. 2. pilot should have chosen a more suitable airport instead of the closest one.. pilot error.. 3. pilot should have filed an IFR flight plan to take advantage of sequencing and precision approaches.. pilot not rated to use instruments. 4. pilot could have planned the arrival at a low traffic time.. avoiding heavy jet traffic.. pilot error.. 5. pilot could have been more proficient in regards to operating her aircraft in busy airspace... IE.. keeping her speed up on approach and not blowing the approach either too high or too slow for traffic.. pilot error.. as you see.. there's just no way to hang this on the controller.. they did their jobs.. both of them.. had she been IFR rated.. she possibly could have navigated a GPS or ILS approach and received spacing and precision guidance.. but she wasn't qualified.. back to a series of bad decisions by the pilot to continue to try to get into hobby whe she wasn't qualified, subsequently losing control on a go around by not flying the aircraft 1st and foremost.. i don't know how to be any more clear about what happened and why it's not the controller's fault....
i will now repeat what you just said in ONE sentence. SHE DID NOT HAVE A SINGLE CLUE WHAT SHE WAS DOING. oh let me add she also had no idea of her limitations. deadly btw. the rest of you dufus's blaming the tower STFU!
Why are they giving her different runways all the time, I'm no pilot, but that's terrible instruction from ATC
Being an atc specialist for over 20 years I certainly don't condone the control coming from the tower that day. However, the pilot allowed that controller to control her to a no fuel situation. She was in command of the aircraft and it was her responsibility to get that aircraft on the ground safely. Controller should have been fired. Pilots need at times to be assertive. It goes both ways. Controllers are not gods, and neither are pilots. They need to work together, something that's not very common in general aviation. Pilots, do NOT hesitate to tell a Controller what you need to do to operate and land safely. Controllers, you need to keep up with your situational awareness of operations at all times.
Where was the facility/shift or tower supervisor when this was going on? Were they supervising???
incompetent controllers
@@daviduhlir5655controller doesn’t need to be fired. He tried. She was confused and shouldn’t have been there. She screwed up and she stalled the aircraft. This is not an ATC failure.
@@jpjetBS. She stalled. She crashed. This was on her.
@@rtbrtb_dutchy4183 Yes, the stall was her fault. Her being in that position at all was the controller's fault. She was on short final, and the other aircraft should have been told to go around.
Yet again a case of incompetents for ATC! They literally killed her. What on earth are they doing? Just sequence her for Runway 4 and get the correct separation for her. Unbelievable :(
wasn't the controllers fault at all.. 100% pilot error.. she got slow and retracted the flaps.. stall/spin.. the controller was doing all he could.. she couldn't fly the approaches fast.. low time pilot.. no experience in a bravo.. he tried to accommodate her.. she just lost it.
what are YOU doing commenting on a subject you are obviously totally ignorant of as well as her?
NOT THE CONTROLLERS FAULT... IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM... she was in over her head in a class B... she was disoriented.. couldn't control the airspeed.. stall/spun it in.. the controller was very good.. patient.. and gave her several chances to land.. and would have again had she not lost it.. ugh.. WHY THE FAKE NEWS TITLE??
WTF was that person doing flying an airplane
IKR?
those controllers should all be fired for making her fly in circles and changing runways on her. Completely uncalled for.
Go ahead and flame me but why should she go around because they didn’t space her correctly with a jet. Then after that at least provide her with a proper plan that she can execute and not all these maybe’s
no need to flame you.. its simple.. she needed to fly her approaches faster than she was used to.. she wasn't used to flying into large airports with jet traffic... when you do, you have to fly your approach much faster when its busy.. the jets are spaced out according to their speeds.. when they sequence you in you have to keep up.. or go around.. like she had to because she didn't know how to land when coming in fast.. then.. on that last go around she made a mistake.. she retracted her flaps while flying too slow.. caused a stall.. the controller was doing everything he could to accommodate her.. taking alot of time to help her get in around the airliners.. he was doing a great job.. she just didn't have the experience to get it done.. then made that fatal mistake with the flaps... 100% pilot error... she could have went to a smaller airport... at any time.. and should have in the 1st place.. even with her troubles... had she not made the flap mistake.. she might have made it in the next time around.. it's a shame.. but not the controllers fault.. at all..
@@texastyrannyresponseteam794 why should she change her standard operating procedure to accommodate faster moving airplanes? Would you except 200 to the markers? I get what you are saying. End of the day it’s pilot error. However after the 5th failed attempt they should have given her more space as it was clear she couldn’t handle it. She has every right to HOU as SWA and I don’t see why she needs to jeopardize her safety or comfort zone just to get a 737 in 20 seconds sooner. That happened to me 25 years ago at MCO in a PA28 and I recall the stress it put on me being in Bravo and having to be resequenced. I didn’t understand at that time either why I had to move for them.
@@BirdDog.120kts would have been OK.. enough to maintain separation... yes she had the right to land. but not impede operations for hundreds of people/ cost 10's of thousands of dollars in extra expenses... etc.. sure.. they would have worked her in with more room if traffic allowed... but that's just not how it works.. her 4 place cirrus doesn't take priority over airliners on a schedule.. with connecting flights on a schedule.. etc.. a prime example why a pilot might practice ops into a busy airport BEFORE hand... or at least practice speedy approaches... it's not a new concept... and rush hour isn't the time to learn.. this is why I commend the controller for being as patient with her as he was.. and continuing to help her after she showed she wasn't really up to the task of standard airmanship... and she probably would have made it in the next go round... had she not made the critical mistake with the flaps... it's a shame.. I was there too.. I had just landed a bit earlier... sitting on the ramp... waiting to head back out.
you are flamed because you are so totally unqualified to comment on this subject and the controllers have ZERO responsibility for her not knowing her limitations. how many times have you landed at bravo or charlie airports. your comments indicate no one. i feel sorry for the contollers if you pester them more than once.
@@chucklemasters6433 you are triggered. I’m going to guess 20,000 times over the last 30 years. Only a few a times in my life in a single engine plane.
This guy is a danger to anyone in the air.
ATC just being a giant pain in the ass , because GA aircraft bring no revenue into the airport -
So they do this kind of thing to chase them off ! No doubt - Seen it before . $$$ money .
The airport authority is sick of screwing around with general aviation . They see them as a
Nuisance to their money making machine - Usually worse at a fast growing airport . 💥🔥👮♂️
GA aircraft have to pay landing fees and parking fees!! Just not as much as the major airlines.
That’s just a silly statement. An ATC guy doesn’t care about how much revenue is brought in. That’s just wrong to think that.
NO that's YOU and the real sad part is that you don't even know it. STFU
This is murder!
No it’s not. What is wrong with you?
I remember when this came out my opinion on this that it was done on purpose.
Then you are an ignorant child.
DEI has no place in aviation. She couldn’t even fly downwind when given an instruction. This is definitely not on the controller. They can’t help someone who obviously isn’t experienced or skilled enough to fly in a busy class B
I'm lost for words. Did anyone even get called into the office for this disgraceful handling?
Still 100% pilot’s fault.
like who?? the responsible party is dead...
@@texastyrannyresponseteam794 I wanted to say that too.
@texastyrannyresponseteam794 That might stand as a legal position.
But the handling of that flight was unprofessional and incompetent.
Fair enough, if the accident plane had been a nuisance, getting in the way by way of their own incompetence, there would be less sympathy.
This was controller induced stress for no good reason.
He should have said that they weren't going to get her safely inserted into the pattern. Because he didn't get her safely into the pattern until he'd messed her around and induced stress.
@@paulmatley8818 come on man. The controller was professional and competent. The problem was that she was confused and ATC tried to deal with her confusion. They tried to accommodate her and after the fact, the best thing would’ve been to not accommodate her and stick to the runway they wanted her on. But of course, that’s after the fact. They didn’t understand how confused she was.
This topic has been beaten to death. It's a clickbait headline. Unsubscribed.
now you have made us all cry
@@chucklemasters6433 How can you tell when your pet hamster is crying?
We are so sorry to hear that
Once ATC standards were lowered to improve diversity numbers, the standards stayed low for everyone. A new bottom was established for what is acceptable.
It started in the 90s with a horrible program called “Train to Succeed”, and then the standards dropped to a new low with the obama administration’s biographical questionnaire. I realize this accident was several years ago, but what we’re seeing in recent ATC incidents/accidents is the result of decades of the incompetent training the incompetent while being supervised by the incompetent. Lower level management is powerless to do anything about it and upper management has their mandates given to them by the DEI and union loving administration. Based on 30 years of ATC experience at level 10-12 facilities.
Nailed it
AI is going to take over.
@@MetaView7 good! the union, NATCA, has been a roadblock to progress for decades. AI may be the answer. For controllers to still be talking to pilots over radio frequencies, as the primary means of communicating information, at this point is ridiculous. Voice communication should’ve ended 15 years ago. The decision making should be ending now. Soon, the controller should only be the backup in the event of weather situations, equipment failures or emergencies. The control tower should be a thing of the past. It can all be accomplished better with cameras and sensors.
@@clinthanrahan859 I am with you 100%.
@@clinthanrahan859all BS. Because in the mean time, we are safer than ever.
In 1983 we had 3500 accidents in a year out of roughly 10 million operations. In 2003 we had 2500 accidents out of 20 million operations. And in 2023 we had 650 accidents out of 40 million operations.
DEI hire controller.
That’s a dog whistle. Not sure why people fall for these 3 letter acronyms.
Let me guess, you got passed over for a job?
dei commenter
That was a load of bullshit right there..... After my first clearance to land, I would've landed.... Make the big boys go around, they have the $ for it.... Of course I never fly into Class B, ever..... Prop planes are in the way there.....
That clearance is only valid until ATC cancels that clearance and tells you to go around. You can't just land off old clearances. She shouldn't have been anywhere near that busy airport with her non-abilities.
i truly hope i'm never anywhere near you if you really ever are a PIC in an actual aircraft! please tell me you are not a real pilot are you?
@@chucklemasters6433 Probably for longer than you've been alive. What part of what I said do you disagree with? That amended clearances override and cancel out old clearances, or that she was incompetent? Don't let your feelings get in the way of facts.
@@OneTequilaTwoTequila sorry you did not understand my comments . i thought i made it clear that you are one of the precious few commenters on here that i agree with. there are very few of us who understand that the controllers have ZERO responsibility for this accident. please read all my other comments and the comments to you and tell me that you know we are in complete agreement. we must stick together because we are very few who don't want to blame ATC besides tequila is my favorite drink so please accept my apology. we might share some sips of a nice tequila one day who knows!
@@chucklemasters6433 Awe! Was that funny in your head while you typed it?