Leave your condolences here. FAA: "A Honda HA-420 jet crashed at Falcon Field Airport in Mesa, Arizona, around 4:40 p.m. local time on Tuesday, Nov. 5. The aircraft struck a vehicle outside of the airport property. Five people were on board the plane. The FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate. The NTSB will be in charge of the investigation and will provide any updates." UPDATE: Some people are saying that one person onboard the aircraft, a 12 year old guy, survived the crash. However FAA statement is still showing that 5 people were onboard the plane and they all received fatal injuries.
Absolutely!!! He didn't notice the Honda had never lifted off?? He didn't even notice the fire and black smoke? Not only ATC is giving instructions to airplanes, he must be monitoring all of them through the scope or out the window.
I think it is too easy to say "controller had no situational awareness". At that workload with multiple aircrafts, especially including VFR traffic, there is some regular flow, some "handling by default" and a lot you have to monitor. I assume they have a secondary radar, so in high workload situations the tower decision making is by radar and not by visual reference at all.
@@thorben246 Is that considered high workload? Sounded like fairly low workload to me compared to most other ATC comms i've heard on this channel. Did the ATC have more traffic to handle than what was in this video at the time?
Five are indeed dead, but one of the five was the driver of the vehicle that was sheared-off at the chassis. They weren't "all five onboard" who received fatal injuries.
@@elhurricane1706 There were 5 on board the plane, the pilot survived with serious injuries. The driver of the car did indeed suffer fatal injuries, sadly.
Sorry for your loss. However, Spencer was the pilot. He was the only rated pilot onboard. Unless his 18 year old son is a pilot. However, we can't check that because the son's name is not known.
So sad... I was actually there yesterday when this happened, I was in a ground lesson in one of the hangers on the north side of the field less than a quarter mile from the crash. My instructor got a text that something was happening then rushed out onto the ramp where we saw the plume of smoke and fire. At first we were worried it could be a plane from our flight school. Praying for everyone involved and really want to learn what caused it.
@davecrupel2817 I was too tbh, I thought I would have heard something but I didn't, or if I did maybe it blended in with other sounds. Not too sure tbh
an RTO that didn't go well. wonder why they kept moving. Hondajet has no reversers like a Cj or Premier I'm gonna guess not making power or a brake dragging and they pushed their luck and didn't have to 70/30 rule in mind and went way past the V1 point. That's why we always do a disaster brief before lining up, so there's no confusion when it hits the fan
I was on the ramp and saw it happening. HondaJet started normal take off run but never lifted off, we saw a massive white smoke trail, probably from the rubber when he tried to brake, and then a giant fireball. Please don't throw everything on the ATC, I'm flying there everyday, they usually have eyes on the radar to keep minimum separation between traffic, and I can imagine that you don't expect a new jet like this one to fail on T/O... RIP to all victims.
There is a normal timing that takes place. When the HondaJet took off, there would be a brief communication with the tower after takeoff. The Controller forgot about the HondaJet. No excuse.
Engine 208, Engine 205, Engine 211, Engine 222, Ladder 206, Battalion 202, Battalion 203, Battalion 204, Medic 2206, AMR 210, Utility 208, and Foam 28 all Responded with Mesa Police Department Falcon 7 and additional Units. NTSB is currently investigating.
WOW…. As a retired controller I cannot believe how bad that was on the part of that initial controller. He completely failed to confirm the Hondajet had cleared the runway when he cleared the Cessna for takeoff. Every controller is, or should be, trained to constantly scan your area of control. He had no business clearing the Cessna to take off until he had visually or on radar, or on radio received confirmation the Hondajet was airborne
@ you can doubt anything you want dumbass, you have the right to be stupid. I spent 30 years at ZAU and C90, if you have any knowledge about the ATC system in America you know what that means.
"According to the FAA preliminary accident report, “[The] aircraft crashed under unknown circumstances on takeoff and struck a vehicle off airport property and [resulted in a] post-crash fire…” The HondaJet is registered to Ice Man Holdings in Mesa and, according to reports, was based at KFFZ. Weather and visibility appear to not be a factor-wind was calm and skies were clear around the time of the accident. Data recorded by ADS-B Exchange shows that the HondaJet accelerated to 133 knots groundspeed on 5,100-foot Runway 22L just before taxiway D3, about 1,300 feet from the end of the runway, then slowed to 103 knots by the runway end. The last data point shows the jet at 71 knots before crossing the perimeter fence. After hitting a vehicle on Greenfield Road, the HondaJet caught on fire. The NTSB is investigating the accident, which is the first HondaJet mishap to involve fatalities." Condolences to the family.
@@AmericaFirstFLL Depends on the circumstances, I have personally had some airline instructors unofficially recommend staying on the ground for a few moments after an engine failure at V1 to help maintain directional stability (which improves with speed, generally). Also, there could have been a flight control malfunction that made it impossible to lift the nose, or any other number of possibilities, like a heart attack or extenuating circumstance. We really can't second guess the pilot(s) until we know more information.
@ oh yes there could be a flight control issue .. trim mis configured or otherwise … what I’m saying is at 133 KIAS it likely took some effort to keep the airplane from flying … its dancing all over the runway at that point. Something has to be wrong.
@@AmericaFirstFLL Reminds me of 2021 accident of an MD-87 in which half the elevator was jammed due to high winds. The plane reached rotation speed, the captain pulled back and nothing happened. They aborted in the high-speed regime and overran the runway.
I flew out this airport a lot. This place gets a ton of traffic and the controllers are working hard to up with all of it. They were all great controllers when I used to fly here.
The 12 year old boy who was a victim of this crash was in the same class as my younger cousin, and they had a memorial service for him. Rest in peace to the victims of this horrible incident 😔
If I'm not mistaken, this is the first fatal HondaJet crash. We had one spin out at Midway - the first HondaJet arrival into Midway had a runway excursion in the rain and ended up stuck in the grass.
AvSafety report: "ADS-B data suggests the airplane had accelerated to about 133 knots groundspeed before it aborted the takeoff roughly 3400 ft down the runway. The airplane was unable to stop, overrun the end of the runway and went through the airport perimeter fence, before crashing into a vehicle on North Greenfield Road."
October of 1984 I was parked at cargo at KSFO when a Clay Lacey Lear taking off in 28L went straight in between the runways throwing debris and flames 1000’ into the air. Tower didn’t even notice until a FedEx B747 asked tower “Do you want us to hold here for the Crash trucks?” Situational awareness was nill
@@MojoFromMempho You’re right, my bad, it was a Flying Tigers flight. They became, as you noted, FedEx but most people are too young to remember that so that’s why I just went with the FedEx name.
@@lemonator8813 I spent 52 years as a pilot with an AA degree in Air Traffic Control Procedures. My dad was a controller and as a kid I used to spend time in the tower cab. When Regan fired the striking controllers I saw the inexperienced new hires spooling up to become good controllers. We have more new controllers now then when we did back then. There is a 50% washout rate in the FAA course so they contracted the training out. My point was that the tower controller in this incident didn’t monitor the traffic he was working. To not notice that the aircraft that you cleared for takeoff and give a clearance to land to another without confirming that the previous aircraft was safely in the air shows a lack of situational awareness. They are surrounded by giant windows for a reason.
I bet he immediately thought the Cessna had a problem and aborted takeoff because of that, and subconsciously latched to that before realizing (and being told) the honda jet was the problem
I'd like to know what kind of car was struck. The resolution isn't great from that distance but it looks like a high end supercar. Possible center line exhaust. Nice wheels although they don't appear to be stock. And the car has the general appearance to be high end although it could just be from the mangled wreckage of the mess. Sad for the driver and all involved. RIP
If you listen with context he is assuming the Cessna had an engine fire. Its not the Cessna's job know know 47LP HondaJet departed, but he could have been more clear but that's nothing to blame. With the amount of eye its surprising how long it took to realize what happened with "You have a fire on 4R" = Aircraft went off the runway. 3 people said it was a fire at the end of the runway, FALCON 7, 1312U, 628LA. No one said plane crash. It took 1 minute til ROK50 said "Looks like an aircraft overrun". 1:50 to 2:50
Fully loaded on that day under those conditions, the runway analysis shows 4,215’ required for takeoff. It’s a down sloping runway and at v1, would probably require nearly 3,000’ to come to a complete stop at Gross weight from the abort location. Considerations… 1. A 5,000’ runway is definitely not ideal for a “rolling takeoff” in a HJ. Not sure if this was a static or rolling takeoff, but worth mentioning as something to look into… 2. HondaJets have an IBIT test which runs for about five minutes after startup. If you run TO power in those first five minutes, it will lock in a max power setting that is 3-5% below actual max thrust and there is no way to regain that loss without restarting the engines… Not sure how fast this HJ went from startup to TO but it was a thought so I thought I’d share it. Condolences to these families and may their loved ones rest in peace…
So 4,215' was the balanced field length? Is it correct that V1 was 110KIAS and Vr was 115KIAS? About a month before this accident, he took off from Cortez, UT (KCEZ) and was at 131 KCAS at rotation (148kts ground speed with a slight tailwind). Maybe he took off with zero flaps. Does the Honda Jet require a zero-flaps takeoff at 6,000 feet and 10 degrees C?
@@igclapp Manufacturer's aren't actually required to use a balanced field length when establishing their takeoff decision speed nor does Honda specify what criteria they utilize. While it would be logical to incorporate stop/go distances in their speeds, I cannot confirm that is the case... V1/Vr would indeed be around 105/110 so even slower. One thing to bear in mind as well though is that the HondaJet has a very fast acceleration. While everyone could be assuming that he rotated at 131 kts, it's quite possible that he did rotate at 110kts but by the time the aircraft left the ground he was doing closer to 130kts... This would be fairly typical in the hondajet acceleration... It does have a somewhat long and under authoritative pitch rotation and then the wings being shorter than other aircraft in it's class, does take a few seconds after rotation to actually get off of the ground... At the proper pitch and adhering to the flight director, 130kts is about the first speed a pilot sees in the hondajet after positive rate, gear up and it happens very quickly... At 6,000' and 10C, the HJ has a takeoff field length of 4,956' with flaps TO/APR and 6,121' with flaps up... In jets, flaps up takeoffs are generally only used for obstacle avoidance to meet departure climb requirements (not required under part 91). Flaps up takeoffs require a longer takeoff run but without the extra drag, provide often times double the rate of climb on one engine as a flaps to/apr takeoff does... So the altitude in that case, nor a shorter runway length would predicate the need for a flapless takeoff, but instead, any departure climb requirement. Cortez is nearly standard at 220'/nm and so I doubt he would have taken off without flaps. Again, I'd circle back to ADS-B having a slight delay and rotation to liftoff taking 2-3 seconds and probably 10-15kts of additional speed above Vr as the aircraft accelerates into the air... My gut tells me that he received an erroneous CAS message on departure, possibly even one that you would still want to take the aircraft into the air with (random flickering CAS messages are unfortunately VERY COMMON in HJ's), but instead, aborted well after the decision speed. I will randomly receive airspeed miscompare cas messages on departure during the rotation in HJ's and they disappear almost as fast as they pop up. But, after 70 kts, you're only aborting for fire, fear that a successful departure is not possible, engine failure, or windshear... So in other words, if there are no red lights or indications (fire and failure), your still accelerating and don't hear anything out of the ordinary or see any engine indications acting erroneously, and your airspeed didn't just drop randomly during the acceleration, you're taking that airplane into the air and whatever yellow CAS comes up is irrelevant, and you'll manage it at altitude with help from ATC to RTF. Sadly, pilots are often trained on pre-v1 aborts and post-v1 aborts, but rarely or never trained to continue the takeoff roll with an erroneous CAS message. Not saying this is certainly what was at play here, but, it's possible. Regardless, This type of decision making, i.e. continuing the takeoff with a low-level CAS or system failure should be incorporated into training for all jet pilots...
The five fatalities so far are *not* all five occupants of the aircraft. Per local news outlet, four people on board died at the scene, one survived and is in the hospital with burn injuries. The driver of the vehicle is the fifth fatality.
Wow that’s got to be horrible to be the pilot and survive that. (Unless everything he did was by the book and not his fault.) prayers for him and all the family of the lost😢🙏🏻
No idea, of course, what happened here, but hearing this incident immediately reminded me of a larger private jet, flown by two high-time pilots, that crashed on takeoff a few years ago. Accident investigation found that the pilots did not run routine taxi and pre-takeoff checklists. Also, the pin that locks the yoke in place while the aircraft is parked was still in, preventing the pilot from being able to pull the yoke back at V1 and rotate. The plane went off the end of the runway and crashed in a ditch. Both pilots and, if memory serves, one pax were killed.
Holy Heck! Isn't a simple stirring of the stick a pre flight requisite? You would certainly notice a yoke lock with that simple step. (Obviously I'm no pilot but just makes sense to me just as a proper walk around and inspection does)
I recall a similar if not the same incident with my former boss's plane. No injuries though and the jet was repaired and put back into service. I believe it was a Challenger and after this happened they made some changes to the bottom of the yoke so nothing would get stuck in there.
This sounds like the May 2014 crash of a Gulfstream IV while attempting to take off at Bedford MA. All seven aboard died, including Lewis Katz a wealthy owner of parking lots, sports teams and the Philadelphia Inquirer.
"....the pin that locks the yoke in place while the aircraft is parked was still in, preventing the pilot from being able to pull the yoke back at V1 and rotate." Talk about a system setting you up to fail. What next? A grenade under the seat that detonates 5 minutes after takeoff if you don't disarm it? I mean, I'm sure there's a reason for that pin, but WT Actual F?!
@@jabba0975 I will give you cure to some of that emotional uplift. General rule is that in aviation almost everything that exists has a reason to exist. For example: preventing moving parts from moving, when they are not required to be moved. And if you think that locking pin is strange, just wait till you hear about fuel shut off valve (where I live one accident killed two people, who - due to complacency - failed to open the valve and had enough fule in line to get air born, the fact that they also took off from hangar across airfield into the woods was also a factor) or about rotor brake in helicopters. All those decisions might get you question the decision to include them there, but I assure you that there is always trade off and someone found out that it is better to have it there than not. You see, some other commenter also reminded about MD-83 that had jammed elevator due to being moved in high wind. The rule to have a reason for existence is for a reason and that reason is mass constraint. Cordially!
I’ve been obsessed with plane crash report videos, and I didn’t foresee this happening but.. now I get really emotional whenever I read how many fatal injuries occurred. “All passengers perished” - my heart sinks and breaks whenever I read or hear those words now. The most innocent souls. They were just trying to get somewhere. To have to suffer a violent and terrifying death…. it’s so unfair. So unfair….
August 27, 2006 was the last time for me to be in the air. Flew into Lexington Kentucky the morning of Comair 5191's crash. Our plane circled the smoldering wreckage for what seemed like forever. Emergency crews on scene. the women on the plane crying was all so intense. When we landed, I extended my car rental to include the trip home.
How is it that the tower was unaware of that accident? Even having been told, fire at the end of the runway, he then asks for confirmation ? Maybe he's working from home.
@@yggdrasil9039 The towers are necessarily constructed to have an almost completely unobstructed view of active runways, including approach and departure areas. Basically, the areas that are within his control on the tower frequency several miles out.. not solely the runway itself. That road and a fair distance beyond would have been visible.
I've flown out of this airport and driven around it many times. The tower should have absolutely seen what happened. Luckily this airport is full of excellent pilots that are very aware of what's going on. I hope the tower gets looked into.. Very alarming. I went and drove by the crash maybe an hour ago and it's still there and there's tons of people looking at the wreck. Very sad. RIP
Please, if you can, pray for the Kimball family. They lost their son to suicide not long ago, and today they lost two more of their family members in this crash.
I seen this yesterday in person from a couple miles away. I seen the mushroom cloud go up and I put broadcasify on my phone to hear if it was a plane down. I couldn’t believe It. Broke my hart and I’m still welled up with tears a day later as I type this.
Could Tower not see anything? Cleared the next aircraft for takeoff while the Honda Jet was apparently not airborne, and had to ask a couple of times why they rejected.
Well I don't think you can assume that the visualisation is 100% in sync with the ATC comms? Maybe the HondaJet got airborne briefly which led the controller to look away and clear the next aircraft for take off?? It's a long runway so the Honda probably had time to abort if it had a problem on the roll?
@@gap9992it's nothing to do with the video visuals, it's about Tower asking twice what was happening N1312U: "There's a problem on the runway here, 12U" Tower: "Cessna U, Roger, what's the issue?" N628LA: "You have a fire" That took 8 seconds...18 seconds later... Tower: "Cessna 12U, and say, what's the reason?" 26 seconds since N1312U rejected, and Tower obviously still hasn't seen the fire
@@gap9992the adsb info says they never lifted off. No matter what the aircraft types are you can’t clear the preceding aircraft for take off until the other is airborne. He definitely was pushing too tight beyond the rules. For the Cessna behind the Honda jet they would need the Honda jet to be 3000ft passed the intersection the Cessna was at and airborne before the Cessna could taxi onto the runway. That definitely didn’t happen since the Honda jet never lifted off
@@icebox829you can actually anticipate the separation. The Cessna just can’t start their takeoff roll before the separation (6000’ and airborne because it’s a jet) is there. It does seem like the controller completely forgot about the Honda Jet though…
@ you can anticipate the separation for the clearance but they still cannot cross the threshold until that separation exists. You need not withhold the clearance if the separation will exist in time for it to be there. But the separation still has to exist. Same runway separation is 3000 airborne.
To the families and loved ones of all who were involved in the crash. All we can say is we're sorry this happened and hope something like it never happens again. To those who lost their lives. Rest in piece and grant your families and friends strength to move through this tragedy.
Wow, crazy how the tower was completely oblivious to the HondaJet just going off the runway. Having enough momentum to overrun the runway, over the grass and through the fence were they thinking they could still take off? RIP all on board.
This is no defense to the ATC but it is also the pilots job to communicate with ATC that he was going to abort the takeoff or communicate that there is an emergency. Could the ATC have done a better job and be aware of their surrounds 1 million percent yes, but it’s also the duty of the pilot to communicate with ATC if there is any kind of emergency, but yet he failed to do that.
@@slags83 The early reports were wrong. There were 4 fatalities on the aircraft, including the pilot and a 12 year age boy, a17 year old boy survived and was treated in hospital for burns and has been discharged. He was the son of one of the fatalities. There are some reports that there were two father and sons and the pilot.
Should have had a soft bed arrester (EMAS) installed long ago; busy airport with a 4-lane road at the end of the runway. Dozens of US airports have this and FAA says they are designed to stop an aircraft entering at around 70 knots, can be more depending on EMAS size. There is space at Falcon for a 500 ft+ EMAS (Teterboro's is 250 ft at the road end). This would have massively slowed down (or stopped) the plane which was reportedly down to 71 kts as it hit the fence. Clearly, the impact if any would have been far less - and a few seconds later. I suspect that the NTSB will recommend one now - albeit too late for the victims and families of this tragedy.
Not sure if anyone else has commented yet, you switched up your first two ATC instructions. Voice shows the Honda was cleared for takeoff but the text shows Red Rock's landing clearance, and vice-versa.
I think initially it was fine however once the aircraft said there was a fire the controller probably should have looked out the window to see what was going on
Why would it be "embarrassing"...? Multiple aircraft on the ground... Multiple aircraft in the pattern... Multiple aircraft departing... Multiple aircraft arriving... And you seriously think they can keep their eyes trained on each and every one simultaneously?
Even though the it sounded like the Cessna had an engine fire, that's why FALCON 7 responded....it was clarified it wasn't the Cessna on fire, just the departure end, FALCON 7 even asks if it was aircraft related... until a full minute later ROK50 states it is an aircraft over run. They reacted quick, just to the wrong thing. 1:50 to 2:50
To all pilots, when something like this happens, immediately report it to the tower in plane English words. I know it was a Cessna with probably a student, but you get my point. If you were the one who crashed, you'd want someone to report it. Maybe the fire depth could have gotten there quicker. I highly doubt in this case it wouldn't have matter. The tower thought the Cessna was the one with the fire. .. also, once the fire trucks roll, the airport is more or less closed to other aircraft because they can't guarantee fire trucks for other aircraft. I once reported a fire in the grass taxiing out to the runway. The tower instructed us back to the ramp. We not only had to wait for the fire to be put out, but also for the fire trucks to refill with water. An hour later, we departed. 30 years of professional flying and thankfully that's the closet I came to fire.
The pilot and 3 others in the aircraft were killed. 1 18 year old boy survived the crash and is in hospital. 1 person died in a car hit by the aircraft. 4 dead in total.
Multiple aircraft on the ground... Multiple aircraft in the pattern... Multiple aircraft departing... Multiple aircraft arriving... Do you seriously think they can keep their eyes trained on each and every one simultaneously?
I think it is normal for the controlled to have expected that the Honda was airborne without looking at it. I think you get used to running everything smoothly
I was out doing flight training earlier that day, saw an Archer run off the side of the same runway as we arrived roughly four hours before this incident. This airport has about at least four flying schools and it does get busy during normal hours, but the ATC has been great at handling the workload if not for a few times when it gets really hectic. RIP to all that died in this tragic incident.
I've driven along this road hundreds of times when i used to work next to this airport so its really sad the black vehicle involved never saw it coming..R.I.P to all the victims.
Thank you very much for providing this information again so quick. A really sad and also until now enigmatic accident. Btw.: According to what Juan Browne stated on his channel the four passengers and a car driver were fatally injured, the Pilot was injured, but is alive.
One thing that concerns me is that the guy in the tower completely forgot about the HondaJet after clearing it for takeoff. Tower had NO CLUE that a fire existed and that the jet run off the runway. The guy in the tower is going on a long vacation. I was in the pattern at Torrance when a similar incident happened. Plane took off bingo fuel and crashed just outside the airport. Tower didn’t notice until the guy holding told tower about the crash.
www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ATC.pdf 3−9−5. ANTICIPATING SEPARATION Takeoff clearance needs not be withheld until prescribed separation exists if there is a reasonable assurance it will exist when the aircraft starts takeoff roll. 3−9−6. SAME RUNWAY SEPARATION 2. When a Category I aircraft is preceded by a Category II aircraft− 3,000 feet. The takeoff clearance didn't get people killed. But it's an easy thing for people to pick on. Lay off the controller. Save your pitchforks for someone that earned it.
This one… hurts hard. That wreckage is a sight to behold and I cannot even imagine having to have been called in on this emergency. This is the stuff that gives you legitimate PTSD. Condolences to the families of the deceased.
Seems like anyone who did see the issue did not report it to the tower in detail because (I presume) they don't want to tie up the radio and figure that the tower controller must also be seeing what they see...? The investigation will be informative. What a tragedy. Fly safe, everyone.
RIP to the pilot, passengers, and the driver on the ground who probably didn't expect or have any chance to react to the airplane slamming into them from the side.
@@mudhat4873 Tower always see every runway on the field. It is atc in the departure or arrival or underway that does not see anything but radar screens because they are in a control central. In my local area witch is Stavanger SVG/ENZV there is a major control that talk to airplanes going to or from northern Atlantic route to and from the US and they used to sit in a bunker at the airport while recently they now stay in a bunker inside a mountain.Tower and ground atc sit and visualizely see all of the airport. The Tower does not hand over the trafic to departure before they are airborne and usually some hundreds of feet in the air.
I was on frequency about to call the tower when this happened. Very sad to hear and see the smoke. People saying the tower should have noticed have no idea the workload this tower has. Not to mention the red rock reported fire which brought his attention to them
It was the Cessna, then they assumed the Cessna had the fire, they pulled the crash phone and FALCON 7 responded, and thats why they asked if the fire was aircraft related, while 2 aircraft clarified a fire on the departure end. It took a whole minute for ROK 50 to verify. 1:50 to 2:50
I'm surprised that everybody is asking if the fire is plane related. The first plane that lined up on the runway and was waiting for departure didn't realise that the plane in front never took off? Also , if there's a tower there , nobody in the tower noticed that the plane rolling to take off never departed? Finally , where the controller is looking? He cleared an aircraft and by the time it should be airborne and far from airport it doesn't appear or appears still in the airport perimeter.
Wow...wondering what might happened ! those jets are very safe ...parking break on maybe....why jet did not abort taking off...no comunication , ATC totally no aware , so many questions !
Clarification: There were 5 people onboard the plane. 4 died while the fifth has been hospitalized for burns. The driver of the car that the plane hit was also killed.
FAA: "A Honda HA-420 jet crashed at Falcon Field Airport in Mesa, Arizona, around 4:40 p.m. local time on Tuesday, Nov. 5. The aircraft struck a vehicle outside of the airport property. Five people were on board the plane. The FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate. The NTSB will be in charge of the investigation and will provide any updates."
I'm sorry about the fatalities with the accident but must make a comment about all the trash talk about the controllers. I'm an ex-controller, commercial instrument pilot and have an FAA A&P which means I know a little bit about almost everything aviation. Wait for the FAA/NTSB report before throwing stones at the controllers. He did nothing to cause this accident. If you have never been in a control tower at a busy airport then you have no idea what they must do and watching departing fast movers (Jets) isn't one of them. Once the jet was rolling and the Cessna called a short time later it is not unusual that the controller would have anticipated the Jet would be past the end before the Cessna began his take off roll. This happens continually and if you are a pilot, take note. As a side note its's been a few years but I think the rule says "A departing aircraft must be past the end of the runway before a departing aircraft is cleared for take off" It DOESN'T say the departing aircraft must be observed to be pass the end by the controller!. Anticipating separation under normal operations happens all the time.
And this particular tower surely has deserved more staffing in the last 5 years. I think in top3 of Class D airports. I've been based there since 1997 and alot has changed. The City of Mesa leadership is really the one responsible for the growth in traffic with over 100 training aircraft now based at Falcon all due to City of Mesa decisions.
We left Denver Stapleton one evening in 1972 in a Piper Arrow and was airborne barely halfway down the runway when a 727 was cleared for takeoff behind me. Called tower to report position and received no answer. As one of my passengers stated "we're going to get run over!" I turned right away from the runway and watched the 727 go past on our left. Called departure to report this and the reply was "No harm, no foul. Have a nice day". Yeah, I know, small plane at a major airport, but we flew in to take a tour at the United Flight Training Center across the street.
As a non-aviation guy who watches aviation videos, I always assume that tower controllers are actually looking out the windows. In this case I'm expecting him to check the runway to see if the HondaJet departed, see the fire, and immediately coordinate the emergency response. Yet here he A) doesn't see the fire, B) doesn't respond when the pilot stopping on the runway tells him of the fire, and C) tells the helicopter (?) to go ahead and call for the emergency response.
Were they forced to abort after V1? It's highly unusual for an aircraft on rollout to overshoot the runway. Looks like their wheels never left the ground.
This is the second time that I have seen an accident at that location and runway. Back around 1980 or 81 a DC-3 that was being used as a forest fire tanker failed to take off and did not try to abort, they did not have enough room left to abort only try to lift off the runway. I understand that the aircraft was salvaged and is flying again both pilots were severely injured but did survive. I can only offer my prayers to those that lost their lives and for the families in this time of loss. May GOD bless all of those involved and watch over them. RIP.
Local news reports that the driver of the car also died. It seems 4 of the 5 persons on the Honda Jet died and that is how the death count is at 5 total.
I fly here and it’s super busy with a lot of schools and training aircraft. After clearing the jet for takeoff he was probably more concerned with the training aircraft coming into land and departing looked away for a second. The way the fire looked at first was on the road and could have been a car. I don’t even think the Cessna taking off realized it was the plane in front of him just that there was a fire at the end of the runway.
Yeah, because the aircraft is pointed directly at the crash site. The controller is looking at a bunch of other things and likely assumed, like 99.99% of all other times, that the aircraft took off as expected. Rarely is it productive or efficient for an ATC to stare a plane down until it leaves its airspace. And there's no issue here because it's also expected and assumed that outgoing aircraft are not blind and can stop if they see an issue before ATC.
@@GOOBENsticks my complaint at the controller is that he never tried to contact the HondaJet. He needed to hand them off to Departure in a minute or less, and he should have verified the jet was clear before clearing the 172 for takeoff. But the fact that, even after he was informed of a fire near the end of the runway, he never checked on or tried to contact the jet tells me he forgot they were there. That's inexcusable for a controller. I know we're all human and can't be Superman, but unfortunately controllers are partially responsible for every life in their airspace and need to be as close to Superman as humanly possible. It's unfair, but that's how it works.
FAA: "A Honda HA-420 jet crashed at Falcon Field Airport in Mesa, Arizona, around 4:40 p.m. local time on Tuesday, Nov. 5. The aircraft struck a vehicle outside of the airport property. Five people were on board the plane. The FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate. The NTSB will be in charge of the investigation and will provide any updates."
A lot of morons in the comments. You can’t see the entire field all the time. Most fields are quite a few square miles that need to be scanned. The only thing concerning is that when the controller cleared the 2nd aircraft for takeoff on 22L, he didn’t verify the other aircraft had actually got airborne. Anytime you clear someone for takeoff, you should scan the entire length of that runway and the departure and approach ends. I remember way back in the day I had an aircraft land short of the runway in the grass and rolled up on the runway. I didn’t see that part so when I told them to turn onto the taxiway everything seemed normal until an airliner that was waiting for departure said, tower did you see that. I then enquirer seen what and they explained what had happened. Moral of the story, we can’t focus on just one plane, that is what is called tunnel vision, and tunnel vision will get people killed.
@RetreadPhoto That's what happens when people are hired for the way they look rather than their competence. ATC has been doing DEI hires for several years now.
I agree with one comment. I'm an ex-controller and when you clear a fast mover (Jet) for take off then a Cessna calls for take-off a short time later. It is easy to anticipate that the runway is clear. It's been a few years but I think the rule says the departing aircraft must be clear of the end of the runway before a departure is cleared for take off. It DOESN'T say he must see the departing aircraft cross the end of the runway. A typical example of anticipating separation based on normal operations. In a very busy tower with lots of traffic the controller cannot watch all sections of the airfield continually. His most important area is clearance for take off and aircraft on final and inbound aircraft to the pattern. The other working controllers help watch for unforeseen situations. Wait for official FAA/NTSB report before throwing stones at the controllers.
@@rvrrunner the scan is for more than just to see where the previous departure is at. The scan ensures nothing else got onto the runway inadvertently. Though you really need to see where the previous departure is at prior to issuing the next takeoff clearance. In my career I had two aircraft run off the runway and one that got airborne had an engine failure and touched back down on the runway. Anticipating separating is useful some of the time, but this is not one of those instances. When they do the review thy are going to ask why he issued that 2nd clearance and there is not a good answer to that
@@austinj3881 The good answer is that separation requirements were met. 3−9−5. ANTICIPATING SEPARATION Takeoff clearance needs not be withheld until prescribed separation exists if there is a reasonable assurance it will exist when the aircraft starts takeoff roll. 3−9−6. SAME RUNWAY SEPARATION 2. When a Category I aircraft is preceded by a Category II aircraft− 3,000 feet The takeoff clearance didn't cause the crash.
@@Demnier separation was never met. You can quote the 7110.65 all you want. Luckily the accident isn’t his fault but I am sure during the investigation this will come up.
Multiple aircraft on the ground... Multiple aircraft in the pattern... Multiple aircraft departing... Multiple aircraft arriving... And you seriously believe they can keep their eyes trained on each and every one simultaneously?
And that's a good question. ✌️🙏 Even looking at the road placement and runway, given certain speeds "things can occur at) it seems there is also very little distance between that road and end of runway... A situation where "it could've been worse", obviously should be avoided...
There is. There's the blast pad, and then a small grass field, then a berm that elevates about 15 feet onto a small access road on top, then the perimeter fence.
The sun at 1639 local yesterday was about 244 deg azimuth and 9 deg elevation. From the tower, the numbers at the 4R end are at a 256 az, and the final point of rest was around 252 deg. Could the glare of the very low western sun have been a factor in the ATC's seeming lack of awareness of the accident?
Absolutely, overrunning into Greenfield is bad enough, thank God it didn't have enough momentum or was slightly airborne because this could have been much worse.
So tower cleared one aircraft to land on 22L then cleared another to not only enter 22L but gave takeoff clearance, all before the HondaJet had left the runway. Then he asks twice why the aircraft aborted takeoff? Someone needs to find a new career...please.
That is legal in the US. Class D has minimum aircraft separation for runway operations. An aircraft can be cleared to depart or land before the aircraft in front has left the runway if minimum separation can be maintained. If the following aircraft is Cat I (think light single engine), the separation is only 3000'
@@FamiliarAnomaly Man, you were just itching to say DEI. You have literally no idea about the employment history of this person or the full story around the situation, but immediately jumping to conclusions as if they were factual. Typical of anyone bringing up DEI nowadays. as if it were even remotely a good discussion point toward fixing problems.
Talk about a clueless tower. Cleared the Cessna for takeoff without even a clue that the Honda Jet had safely cleared the runway , or in this case, crashed.
Multiple aircraft on the ground... Multiple aircraft in the pattern... Multiple aircraft departing... Multiple aircraft arriving... Do you seriously think they can keep their eyes trained on each and every one simultaneously?
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
Leave your condolences here.
FAA: "A Honda HA-420 jet crashed at Falcon Field Airport in Mesa, Arizona, around 4:40 p.m. local time on Tuesday, Nov. 5. The aircraft struck a vehicle outside of the airport property. Five people were on board the plane. The FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate. The NTSB will be in charge of the investigation and will provide any updates."
UPDATE: Some people are saying that one person onboard the aircraft, a 12 year old guy, survived the crash. However FAA statement is still showing that 5 people were onboard the plane and they all received fatal injuries.
Rest in peace 😢
Rest in peace
Terrible tragedy. A time to reflect on the fact that life is very, very short. I pray they all rest in peace.
Rest in peace 🙏
Rest in peace.
Man, the lack of situational awareness by the tower controller is concerning….
Absolutely!!! He didn't notice the Honda had never lifted off?? He didn't even notice the fire and black smoke? Not only ATC is giving instructions to airplanes, he must be monitoring all of them through the scope or out the window.
Does that tower have windows? 🧐
I think it is too easy to say "controller had no situational awareness". At that workload with multiple aircrafts, especially including VFR traffic, there is some regular flow, some "handling by default" and a lot you have to monitor. I assume they have a secondary radar, so in high workload situations the tower decision making is by radar and not by visual reference at all.
@@thorben246confirming that the runway is clear before clearing departing traffic is a basic duty of a controller…
@@thorben246 Is that considered high workload? Sounded like fairly low workload to me compared to most other ATC comms i've heard on this channel. Did the ATC have more traffic to handle than what was in this video at the time?
Five are indeed dead, but one of the five was the driver of the vehicle that was sheared-off at the chassis. They weren't "all five onboard" who received fatal injuries.
Thank you, I was wondering about the vehicle as it’s not mentioned in the description
@@monicasmm I thought it was three onboard and one each in two separate vehicles.
@@812MSSno, 4 on board and one driver.
@@elhurricane1706 There were 5 on board the plane, the pilot survived with serious injuries. The driver of the car did indeed suffer fatal injuries, sadly.
Apparently the pilot survived the accident, but the driver of the ground vehicle did not.
I work(ed) with one of the passengers, he was a GA pilot as well. Blue skies & tail winds, Spencer
just so sad.
Hurts many ways and sorry for the loss of your coworker
what could have happened? i heard that aircraft is super safe and pilot friendly 🥶🥶🥶😲
@@DaveTube775 I'm sorry for your loss and the loss to the community. These are good families.
Sorry for your loss. However, Spencer was the pilot. He was the only rated pilot onboard. Unless his 18 year old son is a pilot. However, we can't check that because the son's name is not known.
Tower: Cessna, what is your issue?
Cessna: You're the one having an issue
Haha, but yeat I mean he could have been a bit more explicit "Aborting takeoff, stopping on the runway, there is a fire at the end of the runway"
@@Osiris57 What else was he supposed to say? He clearly wasn't aware of exactly what was going on at that point.
Don't make jokes over someone dying! You all are sick!
@@jamesbarca7229 well say something more than just : “stopping on the runway”
@@Osiris57 he was fully assuming the tower was aware, but they weren't.
So sad... I was actually there yesterday when this happened, I was in a ground lesson in one of the hangers on the north side of the field less than a quarter mile from the crash. My instructor got a text that something was happening then rushed out onto the ramp where we saw the plume of smoke and fire. At first we were worried it could be a plane from our flight school. Praying for everyone involved and really want to learn what caused it.
Kinda surprised yall missed it.
@davecrupel2817 I was too tbh, I thought I would have heard something but I didn't, or if I did maybe it blended in with other sounds. Not too sure tbh
same we saw lots of touch and goers as we came into town .... thought for sure it was one of em...
an RTO that didn't go well. wonder why they kept moving. Hondajet has no reversers like a Cj or Premier I'm gonna guess not making power or a brake dragging and they pushed their luck and didn't have to 70/30 rule in mind and went way past the V1 point. That's why we always do a disaster brief before lining up, so there's no confusion when it hits the fan
@@DIRTYdeeds613 yeah, I'll put a $1 bet on the old, "incorrect trim setting" .
I was on the ramp and saw it happening. HondaJet started normal take off run but never lifted off, we saw a massive white smoke trail, probably from the rubber when he tried to brake, and then a giant fireball.
Please don't throw everything on the ATC, I'm flying there everyday, they usually have eyes on the radar to keep minimum separation between traffic, and I can imagine that you don't expect a new jet like this one to fail on T/O...
RIP to all victims.
There is a normal timing that takes place. When the HondaJet took off, there would be a brief communication with the tower after takeoff. The Controller forgot about the HondaJet. No excuse.
Over weight? Let's see what the reason for the abort was
Hopefully not something like on the citation jets. Stuck parking brake, and unable to accellerate enough...
@ It’s almost like he was unable to rotate … if that airplane was at 133 knots and still on the ground it must have been wild.
Thanks for your comment and testimony
Engine 208, Engine 205, Engine 211, Engine 222, Ladder 206, Battalion 202, Battalion 203, Battalion 204, Medic 2206, AMR 210, Utility 208, and Foam 28 all Responded with Mesa Police Department Falcon 7 and additional Units. NTSB is currently investigating.
Responding to smoking ruins.
dey all bee respondinn frum sprouts where de be gettin drinks on and snacks on while duh trucks be idlin and chillin outside
@nynphose Hollywood.
I was not on any of those units. 🚒🚒🚒
if uzzz needz da fireman in mesua u call sprouts or frys de alwzy be der chillin maybe make dem nice recliners dere for dem
WOW…. As a retired controller I cannot believe how bad that was on the part of that initial controller. He completely failed to confirm the Hondajet had cleared the runway when he cleared the Cessna for takeoff. Every controller is, or should be, trained to constantly scan your area of control. He had no business clearing the Cessna to take off until he had visually or on radar, or on radio received confirmation the Hondajet was airborne
As a retired commercial pilot I 100% agree with @efoxxok7478
@RetreadPhoto as a non-retired controller I agree with the retired controller
@ you can doubt anything you want dumbass, you have the right to be stupid. I spent 30 years at ZAU and C90, if you have any knowledge about the ATC system in America you know what that means.
@@SpaceGeek321 As a non-retired, non-controller, I agree with the non-retired controller.
@@SpaceGeek321 thank you. I spent 30 years at KSEE, ZAU and C90 I doubt this guy could even identify those locations.
"According to the FAA preliminary accident report, “[The] aircraft crashed under unknown circumstances on takeoff and struck a vehicle off airport property and [resulted in a] post-crash fire…” The HondaJet is registered to Ice Man Holdings in Mesa and, according to reports, was based at KFFZ. Weather and visibility appear to not be a factor-wind was calm and skies were clear around the time of the accident. Data recorded by ADS-B Exchange shows that the HondaJet accelerated to 133 knots groundspeed on 5,100-foot Runway 22L just before taxiway D3, about 1,300 feet from the end of the runway, then slowed to 103 knots by the runway end. The last data point shows the jet at 71 knots before crossing the perimeter fence. After hitting a vehicle on Greenfield Road, the HondaJet caught on fire. The NTSB is investigating the accident, which is the first HondaJet mishap to involve fatalities." Condolences to the family.
V1 speed is 110 KIAS - At 133 Knots on a 5000 foot field, you had better already be airborne. OMG.
@@AmericaFirstFLL Depends on the circumstances, I have personally had some airline instructors unofficially recommend staying on the ground for a few moments after an engine failure at V1 to help maintain directional stability (which improves with speed, generally). Also, there could have been a flight control malfunction that made it impossible to lift the nose, or any other number of possibilities, like a heart attack or extenuating circumstance. We really can't second guess the pilot(s) until we know more information.
@ oh yes there could be a flight control issue .. trim mis configured or otherwise … what I’m saying is at 133 KIAS it likely took some effort to keep the airplane from flying … its dancing all over the runway at that point. Something has to be wrong.
@@AmericaFirstFLL Reminds me of 2021 accident of an MD-87 in which half the elevator was jammed due to high winds. The plane reached rotation speed, the captain pulled back and nothing happened. They aborted in the high-speed regime and overran the runway.
Did the pilot of the crashed aircraft attempt to abort the takeoff? That's what the ADS-B appears to imply? Unless the engines lost power?
I flew out this airport a lot. This place gets a ton of traffic and the controllers are working hard to up with all of it. They were all great controllers when I used to fly here.
Apparently they’re so great they don’t notice flaming plane wrecks at the foot of their runways
@@bramptongora2008 ah the non pilot arm chair quarter back comments.....gotta love em.
Stress levels of atc is 🌪️🌪️
Gonna be interesting to see the report on this one
guessing t/o trim not set or cg/weight issue or flaps
Looking at ads-b it almost looks like a post V1 reject
@RetreadPhoto what's your problem buddy? Those are good guesses too. Some people... sheesh
@@holobolo1661Yes, while we do not yet know, some theories are much more likely than others.
Yeah like why slow down and choose that car
The 12 year old boy who was a victim of this crash was in the same class as my younger cousin, and they had a memorial service for him. Rest in peace to the victims of this horrible incident 😔
If I'm not mistaken, this is the first fatal HondaJet crash. We had one spin out at Midway - the first HondaJet arrival into Midway had a runway excursion in the rain and ended up stuck in the grass.
Kind of a rare jet hardly ever see one.
@@Mike-01234 Not so rare; there are 222 on the US registry alone.
I worked on the engine program for GE-Honda.
@@Mike-01234we see them all the time in GPT.
@@UncleKennysPlaceFamily member was Honda driver as his last ride b4 retirement. Said it was a dream to fly
@224valk4 he was old enough to retire yet never flew before? Wow
Very sad but also horrible for the occupant(s) of the clearly visible destroyed car 😢
I have never seen a more destroyed car. This is heart breaking for the families
AvSafety report: "ADS-B data suggests the airplane had accelerated to about 133 knots groundspeed before it aborted the takeoff roughly 3400 ft down the runway. The airplane was unable to stop, overrun the end of the runway and went through the airport perimeter fence, before crashing into a vehicle on North Greenfield Road."
Damn. A failed rejected take off. I wonder what the numbers are for safely doing this.
That’s insane. Well above V1. I wonder if he had a flight control lock engaged?
@@bittnerbsThey said they had a fire.
@@bittnerbsseems a lot like the gulfstream in Bedford.
Thanks. Could you drop us a link of the ADSB data?
And so.. HondaJet got their first fatal case involving their jets
R.I.P to all victims
Yyou say that like its cause for celebration
@@bradsanders407learn some English, god
@@bradsanders407really? or are you that easily offended? he says it as it’s a historical moment for the company’s track record.
Yes. But previous incidents seem to indicate it has a hard time staying on runways.
@@bradsanders407 your way of interpreting things is weird.
I love this jet. I love the brand. I love the design philosophy behind it.
This was the first crash with fatalities. Am sadder than normal.
RIP condolences to the family and friends
Legendary influencers
October of 1984 I was parked at cargo at KSFO when a Clay Lacey Lear taking off in 28L went straight in between the runways throwing debris and flames 1000’ into the air. Tower didn’t even notice until a FedEx B747 asked tower “Do you want us to hold here for the Crash trucks?” Situational awareness was nill
Maybe you should become a controller then
FedEx didn't have 747's in 1984. They didn't acquire 747's until the buyout of Flying Tigers in 1989.
@@MojoFromMempho You’re right, my bad, it was a Flying Tigers flight. They became, as you noted, FedEx but most people are too young to remember that so that’s why I just went with the FedEx name.
@@lemonator8813 I spent 52 years as a pilot with an AA degree in Air Traffic Control Procedures. My dad was a controller and as a kid I used to spend time in the tower cab. When Regan fired the striking controllers I saw the inexperienced new hires spooling up to become good controllers. We have more new controllers now then when we did back then. There is a 50% washout rate in the FAA course so they contracted the training out. My point was that the tower controller in this incident didn’t monitor the traffic he was working. To not notice that the aircraft that you cleared for takeoff and give a clearance to land to another without confirming that the previous aircraft was safely in the air shows a lack of situational awareness. They are surrounded by giant windows for a reason.
@@Gundog55 we need more controllers. Always have. Humans are terrible multitaskers.
Genuinely horrified, horrible way to go, that car looks like it's been thrown in a compactor. RIP to all :'(
Surprised ATC took so long to pick it up.
I bet he immediately thought the Cessna had a problem and aborted takeoff because of that, and subconsciously latched to that before realizing (and being told) the honda jet was the problem
i’m not, considering the time and location it would be like looking directly into the sun from where the tower is
I'd like to know what kind of car was struck. The resolution isn't great from that distance but it looks like a high end supercar. Possible center line exhaust. Nice wheels although they don't appear to be stock. And the car has the general appearance to be high end although it could just be from the mangled wreckage of the mess. Sad for the driver and all involved. RIP
If you listen with context he is assuming the Cessna had an engine fire. Its not the Cessna's job know know 47LP HondaJet departed, but he could have been more clear but that's nothing to blame. With the amount of eye its surprising how long it took to realize what happened with "You have a fire on 4R" = Aircraft went off the runway. 3 people said it was a fire at the end of the runway, FALCON 7, 1312U, 628LA. No one said plane crash. It took 1 minute til ROK50 said "Looks like an aircraft overrun". 1:50 to 2:50
Fully loaded on that day under those conditions, the runway analysis shows 4,215’ required for takeoff. It’s a down sloping runway and at v1, would probably require nearly 3,000’ to come to a complete stop at Gross weight from the abort location.
Considerations…
1. A 5,000’ runway is definitely not ideal for a “rolling takeoff” in a HJ. Not sure if this was a static or rolling takeoff, but worth mentioning as something to look into…
2. HondaJets have an IBIT test which runs for about five minutes after startup. If you run TO power in those first five minutes, it will lock in a max power setting that is 3-5% below actual max thrust and there is no way to regain that loss without restarting the engines… Not sure how fast this HJ went from startup to TO but it was a thought so I thought I’d share it.
Condolences to these families and may their loved ones rest in peace…
So 4,215' was the balanced field length? Is it correct that V1 was 110KIAS and Vr was 115KIAS? About a month before this accident, he took off from Cortez, UT (KCEZ) and was at 131 KCAS at rotation (148kts ground speed with a slight tailwind). Maybe he took off with zero flaps. Does the Honda Jet require a zero-flaps takeoff at 6,000 feet and 10 degrees C?
@@igclapp Manufacturer's aren't actually required to use a balanced field length when establishing their takeoff decision speed nor does Honda specify what criteria they utilize. While it would be logical to incorporate stop/go distances in their speeds, I cannot confirm that is the case... V1/Vr would indeed be around 105/110 so even slower.
One thing to bear in mind as well though is that the HondaJet has a very fast acceleration. While everyone could be assuming that he rotated at 131 kts, it's quite possible that he did rotate at 110kts but by the time the aircraft left the ground he was doing closer to 130kts... This would be fairly typical in the hondajet acceleration... It does have a somewhat long and under authoritative pitch rotation and then the wings being shorter than other aircraft in it's class, does take a few seconds after rotation to actually get off of the ground... At the proper pitch and adhering to the flight director, 130kts is about the first speed a pilot sees in the hondajet after positive rate, gear up and it happens very quickly...
At 6,000' and 10C, the HJ has a takeoff field length of 4,956' with flaps TO/APR and 6,121' with flaps up... In jets, flaps up takeoffs are generally only used for obstacle avoidance to meet departure climb requirements (not required under part 91). Flaps up takeoffs require a longer takeoff run but without the extra drag, provide often times double the rate of climb on one engine as a flaps to/apr takeoff does... So the altitude in that case, nor a shorter runway length would predicate the need for a flapless takeoff, but instead, any departure climb requirement. Cortez is nearly standard at 220'/nm and so I doubt he would have taken off without flaps.
Again, I'd circle back to ADS-B having a slight delay and rotation to liftoff taking 2-3 seconds and probably 10-15kts of additional speed above Vr as the aircraft accelerates into the air...
My gut tells me that he received an erroneous CAS message on departure, possibly even one that you would still want to take the aircraft into the air with (random flickering CAS messages are unfortunately VERY COMMON in HJ's), but instead, aborted well after the decision speed. I will randomly receive airspeed miscompare cas messages on departure during the rotation in HJ's and they disappear almost as fast as they pop up. But, after 70 kts, you're only aborting for fire, fear that a successful departure is not possible, engine failure, or windshear... So in other words, if there are no red lights or indications (fire and failure), your still accelerating and don't hear anything out of the ordinary or see any engine indications acting erroneously, and your airspeed didn't just drop randomly during the acceleration, you're taking that airplane into the air and whatever yellow CAS comes up is irrelevant, and you'll manage it at altitude with help from ATC to RTF.
Sadly, pilots are often trained on pre-v1 aborts and post-v1 aborts, but rarely or never trained to continue the takeoff roll with an erroneous CAS message. Not saying this is certainly what was at play here, but, it's possible. Regardless, This type of decision making, i.e. continuing the takeoff with a low-level CAS or system failure should be incorporated into training for all jet pilots...
Condolences and RIP.
Heartbreaking no one survived I just think of all the lives that will be forever changed over this
The five fatalities so far are *not* all five occupants of the aircraft.
Per local news outlet, four people on board died at the scene, one survived and is in the hospital with burn injuries. The driver of the vehicle is the fifth fatality.
I'm reading that pilot survived. 4 passengers plus the car driver were fatal.
Wow that’s got to be horrible to be the pilot and survive that. (Unless everything he did was by the book and not his fault.) prayers for him and all the family of the lost😢🙏🏻
@RetreadPhotoyeah but he was the first officer. The captain was responsible for the taxi to the wrong runway
Condolences to the family or families affected.
No idea, of course, what happened here, but hearing this incident immediately reminded me of a larger private jet, flown by two high-time pilots, that crashed on takeoff a few years ago. Accident investigation found that the pilots did not run routine taxi and pre-takeoff checklists. Also, the pin that locks the yoke in place while the aircraft is parked was still in, preventing the pilot from being able to pull the yoke back at V1 and rotate. The plane went off the end of the runway and crashed in a ditch. Both pilots and, if memory serves, one pax were killed.
Holy Heck! Isn't a simple stirring of the stick a pre flight requisite? You would certainly notice a yoke lock with that simple step. (Obviously I'm no pilot but just makes sense to me just as a proper walk around and inspection does)
I recall a similar if not the same incident with my former boss's plane. No injuries though and the jet was repaired and put back into service. I believe it was a Challenger and after this happened they made some changes to the bottom of the yoke so nothing would get stuck in there.
This sounds like the May 2014 crash of a Gulfstream IV while attempting to take off at Bedford MA. All seven aboard died, including Lewis Katz a wealthy owner of parking lots, sports teams and the Philadelphia Inquirer.
"....the pin that locks the yoke in place while the aircraft is parked was still in, preventing the pilot from being able to pull the yoke back at V1 and rotate." Talk about a system setting you up to fail. What next? A grenade under the seat that detonates 5 minutes after takeoff if you don't disarm it? I mean, I'm sure there's a reason for that pin, but WT Actual F?!
@@jabba0975 I will give you cure to some of that emotional uplift. General rule is that in aviation almost everything that exists has a reason to exist. For example: preventing moving parts from moving, when they are not required to be moved. And if you think that locking pin is strange, just wait till you hear about fuel shut off valve (where I live one accident killed two people, who - due to complacency - failed to open the valve and had enough fule in line to get air born, the fact that they also took off from hangar across airfield into the woods was also a factor) or about rotor brake in helicopters. All those decisions might get you question the decision to include them there, but I assure you that there is always trade off and someone found out that it is better to have it there than not. You see, some other commenter also reminded about MD-83 that had jammed elevator due to being moved in high wind. The rule to have a reason for existence is for a reason and that reason is mass constraint.
Cordially!
I’ve been obsessed with plane crash report videos, and I didn’t foresee this happening but.. now I get really emotional whenever I read how many fatal injuries occurred. “All passengers perished” - my heart sinks and breaks whenever I read or hear those words now.
The most innocent souls. They were just trying to get somewhere. To have to suffer a violent and terrifying death…. it’s so unfair. So unfair….
Not gonna lie I watch a lot of them to and I thought that had desensitized me to this kind of thing but I immediately had the same reaction.
August 27, 2006 was the last time for me to be in the air.
Flew into Lexington Kentucky the morning of Comair 5191's crash. Our plane circled the smoldering wreckage for what seemed like forever. Emergency crews on scene. the women on the plane crying was all so intense.
When we landed, I extended my car rental to include the trip home.
How is it that the tower was unaware of that accident? Even having been told, fire at the end of the runway, he then asks for confirmation ? Maybe he's working from home.
The fire was way past the runway, past the perimeter fence and onto a main road. A bit past his area of control.
@@yggdrasil9039 The towers are necessarily constructed to have an almost completely unobstructed view of active runways, including approach and departure areas. Basically, the areas that are within his control on the tower frequency several miles out.. not solely the runway itself. That road and a fair distance beyond would have been visible.
I've flown out of this airport and driven around it many times. The tower should have absolutely seen what happened. Luckily this airport is full of excellent pilots that are very aware of what's going on. I hope the tower gets looked into.. Very alarming. I went and drove by the crash maybe an hour ago and it's still there and there's tons of people looking at the wreck. Very sad. RIP
So sad. God bless the families of those involved.
Please, if you can, pray for the Kimball family. They lost their son to suicide not long ago, and today they lost two more of their family members in this crash.
remember kids, when in flight school, to try and talk as fast as humanly possible with only 4 % of words /numbers being understood 😂
I seen this yesterday in person from a couple miles away. I seen the mushroom cloud go up and I put broadcasify on my phone to hear if it was a plane down. I couldn’t believe It. Broke my hart and I’m still welled up with tears a day later as I type this.
Could Tower not see anything? Cleared the next aircraft for takeoff while the Honda Jet was apparently not airborne, and had to ask a couple of times why they rejected.
Well I don't think you can assume that the visualisation is 100% in sync with the ATC comms? Maybe the HondaJet got airborne briefly which led the controller to look away and clear the next aircraft for take off?? It's a long runway so the Honda probably had time to abort if it had a problem on the roll?
@@gap9992it's nothing to do with the video visuals, it's about Tower asking twice what was happening
N1312U: "There's a problem on the runway here, 12U"
Tower: "Cessna U, Roger, what's the issue?"
N628LA: "You have a fire"
That took 8 seconds...18 seconds later...
Tower: "Cessna 12U, and say, what's the reason?"
26 seconds since N1312U rejected, and Tower obviously still hasn't seen the fire
@@gap9992the adsb info says they never lifted off. No matter what the aircraft types are you can’t clear the preceding aircraft for take off until the other is airborne. He definitely was pushing too tight beyond the rules. For the Cessna behind the Honda jet they would need the Honda jet to be 3000ft passed the intersection the Cessna was at and airborne before the Cessna could taxi onto the runway. That definitely didn’t happen since the Honda jet never lifted off
@@icebox829you can actually anticipate the separation. The Cessna just can’t start their takeoff roll before the separation (6000’ and airborne because it’s a jet) is there. It does seem like the controller completely forgot about the Honda Jet though…
@ you can anticipate the separation for the clearance but they still cannot cross the threshold until that separation exists. You need not withhold the clearance if the separation will exist in time for it to be there. But the separation still has to exist. Same runway separation is 3000 airborne.
To the families and loved ones of all who were involved in the crash. All we can say is we're sorry this happened and hope something like it never happens again. To those who lost their lives. Rest in piece and grant your families and friends strength to move through this tragedy.
Wow, crazy how the tower was completely oblivious to the HondaJet just going off the runway. Having enough momentum to overrun the runway, over the grass and through the fence were they thinking they could still take off? RIP all on board.
Maybe they had a mechanical failure and couldn't stop
@@Blast6926no thrust reversal, no speed brake, or ground spoilers, at any significant speed, good luck trying to stop it.
I'm wondering if they had a brake failure. Or a hydraulic failure.
Video indicates that they were braking hard down the runway.
This is no defense to the ATC but it is also the pilots job to communicate with ATC that he was going to abort the takeoff or communicate that there is an emergency. Could the ATC have done a better job and be aware of their surrounds 1 million percent yes, but it’s also the duty of the pilot to communicate with ATC if there is any kind of emergency, but yet he failed to do that.
Always haunting, hearing the final transmission of a pilot.
Someone up above said they read the pilot survived and the 4 passengers and person in the vehicle were the fatal.
@RetreadPhoto That sounded like an ATC alarm for a traffic conflict
The pilot survived according to one of the local news channels.
@@slags83 The early reports were wrong. There were 4 fatalities on the aircraft, including the pilot and a 12 year age boy, a17 year old boy survived and was treated in hospital for burns and has been discharged. He was the son of one of the fatalities. There are some reports that there were two father and sons and the pilot.
My friend watched it happen. Very sad. I was at Scottsdale Airport at the time.
Should have had a soft bed arrester (EMAS) installed long ago; busy airport with a 4-lane road at the end of the runway. Dozens of US airports have this and FAA says they are designed to stop an aircraft entering at around 70 knots, can be more depending on EMAS size. There is space at Falcon for a 500 ft+ EMAS (Teterboro's is 250 ft at the road end). This would have massively slowed down (or stopped) the plane which was reportedly down to 71 kts as it hit the fence. Clearly, the impact if any would have been far less - and a few seconds later. I suspect that the NTSB will recommend one now - albeit too late for the victims and families of this tragedy.
Not sure if anyone else has commented yet, you switched up your first two ATC instructions. Voice shows the Honda was cleared for takeoff but the text shows Red Rock's landing clearance, and vice-versa.
I caught that. My son was red rock50
Yeah the captions were a mess!
@@johnmervenne710 I'm curious, is Red Rock a flight school callsign?
@@southseasflying yes it. Red Rocks is a flight school at that airport
This is a real puzzler. I hope for all pilots that a cause can be identified, shared and families can understand.
Thats embarrassing that a departing aircraft, not even airborne, had to tell local that the preceding departure crashed off the end f the runway.
I think initially it was fine however once the aircraft said there was a fire the controller probably should have looked out the window to see what was going on
Why would it be "embarrassing"...?
Multiple aircraft on the ground...
Multiple aircraft in the pattern...
Multiple aircraft departing...
Multiple aircraft arriving...
And you seriously think they can keep their eyes trained on each and every one simultaneously?
Even though the it sounded like the Cessna had an engine fire, that's why FALCON 7 responded....it was clarified it wasn't the Cessna on fire, just the departure end, FALCON 7 even asks if it was aircraft related... until a full minute later ROK50 states it is an aircraft over run. They reacted quick, just to the wrong thing. 1:50 to 2:50
To all pilots, when something like this happens, immediately report it to the tower in plane English words. I know it was a Cessna with probably a student, but you get my point. If you were the one who crashed, you'd want someone to report it. Maybe the fire depth could have gotten there quicker. I highly doubt in this case it wouldn't have matter. The tower thought the Cessna was the one with the fire. .. also, once the fire trucks roll, the airport is more or less closed to other aircraft because they can't guarantee fire trucks for other aircraft. I once reported a fire in the grass taxiing out to the runway. The tower instructed us back to the ramp. We not only had to wait for the fire to be put out, but also for the fire trucks to refill with water. An hour later, we departed. 30 years of professional flying and thankfully that's the closet I came to fire.
Yep. See something say something applies to pilots and ATC as well.
If you know where to look, a group of trees just left of the crash site are smaller, recovering from a DC4 crash in 1979.
Very sorry for everyone involved in this tragedy. Hopefully the pilot will recover
The pilot and 3 others in the aircraft were killed. 1 18 year old boy survived the crash and is in hospital. 1 person died in a car hit by the aircraft. 4 dead in total.
Dude is this controller lost? I guess he wasn’t looking outside the window.
Multiple aircraft on the ground...
Multiple aircraft in the pattern...
Multiple aircraft departing...
Multiple aircraft arriving...
Do you seriously think they can keep their eyes trained on each and every one simultaneously?
Always an outstanding analysis by our amazing professional pilot teacher!
I think it is normal for the controlled to have expected that the Honda was airborne without looking at it. I think you get used to running everything smoothly
I was out doing flight training earlier that day, saw an Archer run off the side of the same runway as we arrived roughly four hours before this incident.
This airport has about at least four flying schools and it does get busy during normal hours, but the ATC has been great at handling the workload if not for a few times when it gets really hectic. RIP to all that died in this tragic incident.
Doubt the people in the car got out either. Rip to all involved
Apparently 4 were killed in the jet, one in the car. The/a pilot apparently survived.
@@joelmulderno, an 18 yr survived
I've driven along this road hundreds of times when i used to work next to this airport so its really sad the black vehicle involved never saw it coming..R.I.P to all the victims.
According to flight safety and news sources, 4 of the 5 on the plane were fatally injured with the 5th fatality was that of the vehicle driver.
FAA says there were 5 onboard
@@VASAviation one pax survived and is the hospital.
Crazy that was my home airport for training few years ago. RIP
I wondering if it was the infamous brake set issue.
Thank you very much for providing this information again so quick. A really sad and also until now enigmatic accident.
Btw.: According to what Juan Browne stated on his channel the four passengers and a car driver were fatally injured, the Pilot was injured, but is alive.
jesus, did the controller have his eyes closed ?
350 cc HondaJet
One thing that concerns me is that the guy in the tower completely forgot about the HondaJet after clearing it for takeoff. Tower had NO CLUE that a fire existed and that the jet run off the runway. The guy in the tower is going on a long vacation.
I was in the pattern at Torrance when a similar incident happened. Plane took off bingo fuel and crashed just outside the airport. Tower didn’t notice until the guy holding told tower about the crash.
Yeah how dare atc keep their eyes on the radar to keep planes from crashing in to each other.
@RetreadPhoto Ground radar? What do you mean?
www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ATC.pdf
3−9−5. ANTICIPATING SEPARATION
Takeoff clearance needs not be withheld until
prescribed separation exists if there is a reasonable
assurance it will exist when the aircraft starts takeoff
roll.
3−9−6. SAME RUNWAY SEPARATION
2. When a Category I aircraft is preceded by a
Category II aircraft− 3,000 feet.
The takeoff clearance didn't get people killed. But it's an easy thing for people to pick on. Lay off the controller. Save your pitchforks for someone that earned it.
This one… hurts hard. That wreckage is a sight to behold and I cannot even imagine having to have been called in on this emergency. This is the stuff that gives you legitimate PTSD. Condolences to the families of the deceased.
Seems like anyone who did see the issue did not report it to the tower in detail because (I presume) they don't want to tie up the radio and figure that the tower controller must also be seeing what they see...? The investigation will be informative. What a tragedy. Fly safe, everyone.
RIP to the pilot, passengers, and the driver on the ground who probably didn't expect or have any chance to react to the airplane slamming into them from the side.
Unbelievable, ATC didn't even noticed............ Unbelievable.
How were they supposed to see something they didn’t have the ability to see?
@@mudhat4873 Tower always see every runway on the field. It is atc in the departure or arrival or underway that does not see anything but radar screens because they are in a control central. In my local area witch is Stavanger SVG/ENZV there is a major control that talk to airplanes going to or from northern Atlantic route to and from the US and they used to sit in a bunker at the airport while recently they now stay in a bunker inside a mountain.Tower and ground atc sit and visualizely see all of the airport. The Tower does not hand over the trafic to departure before they are airborne and usually some hundreds of feet in the air.
@@mudhat4873 Visual or on radar they should know because otherwise what's the point of having ATC?
I was on frequency about to call the tower when this happened. Very sad to hear and see the smoke. People saying the tower should have noticed have no idea the workload this tower has. Not to mention the red rock reported fire which brought his attention to them
It was the Cessna, then they assumed the Cessna had the fire, they pulled the crash phone and FALCON 7 responded, and thats why they asked if the fire was aircraft related, while 2 aircraft clarified a fire on the departure end. It took a whole minute for ROK 50 to verify. 1:50 to 2:50
I'm surprised that everybody is asking if the fire is plane related. The first plane that lined up on the runway and was waiting for departure didn't realise that the plane in front never took off? Also , if there's a tower there , nobody in the tower noticed that the plane rolling to take off never departed? Finally , where the controller is looking? He cleared an aircraft and by the time it should be airborne and far from airport it doesn't appear or appears still in the airport perimeter.
Sorry to hear this. Strength to all.
Wow...wondering what might happened ! those jets are very safe ...parking break on maybe....why jet did not abort taking off...no comunication , ATC totally no aware , so many questions !
I live extremely close to this crash I saw the smoke all the roads were quickly shut down for a while
Looks like the firefighter holding up 1 finger to indicate there was 1 person in the vehicle....the condition of that car is horrific.
Clarification: There were 5 people onboard the plane. 4 died while the fifth has been hospitalized for burns. The driver of the car that the plane hit was also killed.
FAA: "A Honda HA-420 jet crashed at Falcon Field Airport in Mesa, Arizona, around 4:40 p.m. local time on Tuesday, Nov. 5. The aircraft struck a vehicle outside of the airport property. Five people were on board the plane. The FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate. The NTSB will be in charge of the investigation and will provide any updates."
When in doubt, call it out.
I thought i read that the pilot survived this incident
I'm sorry about the fatalities with the accident but must make a comment about all the trash talk about the controllers. I'm an ex-controller, commercial instrument pilot and have an FAA A&P which means I know a little bit about almost everything aviation. Wait for the FAA/NTSB report before throwing stones at the controllers. He did nothing to cause this accident. If you have never been in a control tower at a busy airport then you have no idea what they must do and watching departing fast movers (Jets) isn't one of them. Once the jet was rolling and the Cessna called a short time later it is not unusual that the controller would have anticipated the Jet would be past the end before the Cessna began his take off roll. This happens continually and if you are a pilot, take note. As a side note its's been a few years but I think the rule says "A departing aircraft must be past the end of the runway before a departing aircraft is cleared for take off" It DOESN'T say the departing aircraft must be observed to be pass the end by the controller!. Anticipating separation under normal operations happens all the time.
And this particular tower surely has deserved more staffing in the last 5 years. I think in top3 of Class D airports. I've been based there since 1997 and alot has changed. The City of Mesa leadership is really the one responsible for the growth in traffic with over 100 training aircraft now based at Falcon all due to City of Mesa decisions.
We left Denver Stapleton one evening in 1972 in a Piper Arrow and was airborne barely halfway down the runway when a 727 was cleared for takeoff behind me. Called tower to report position and received no answer. As one of my passengers stated "we're going to get run over!" I turned right away from the runway and watched the 727 go past on our left. Called departure to report this and the reply was "No harm, no foul. Have a nice day". Yeah, I know, small plane at a major airport, but we flew in to take a tour at the United Flight Training Center across the street.
As a non-aviation guy who watches aviation videos, I always assume that tower controllers are actually looking out the windows. In this case I'm expecting him to check the runway to see if the HondaJet departed, see the fire, and immediately coordinate the emergency response. Yet here he A) doesn't see the fire, B) doesn't respond when the pilot stopping on the runway tells him of the fire, and C) tells the helicopter (?) to go ahead and call for the emergency response.
Were they forced to abort after V1? It's highly unusual for an aircraft on rollout to overshoot the runway. Looks like their wheels never left the ground.
More like tried to abort after V1
RIP Mesa is my home. Sorry for everyone lose. God Bless You All
Its crazy man i live 2 miles from here
I live 8 miles away😔
@donnarupert4926 it so crazy man I drive on that road all the time smh
This is the second time that I have seen an accident at that location and runway. Back around 1980 or 81 a DC-3 that was being used as a forest fire tanker failed to take off and did not try to abort, they did not have enough room left to abort only try to lift off the runway. I understand that the aircraft was salvaged and is flying again both pilots were severely injured but did survive. I can only offer my prayers to those that lost their lives and for the families in this time of loss. May GOD bless all of those involved and watch over them. RIP.
What about those in car? R.I.P. Terrible crash!
Local news reports that the driver of the car also died. It seems 4 of the 5 persons on the Honda Jet died and that is how the death count is at 5 total.
Note that there are 222 HondaJets on the US Registry, obviously more around the world.
Wow! This is in my back yard!
Oh wow I saw the smoke from this driving home yesterday and didn't realise
Presumably no Engineered Material Arresting System at this field?
Nope
The captions on the first two tower transmissions are flipped, it says clear to land when the tower said clear for takeoff, and vice versa.
So a small aircraft on the runway 3500 feet away could see the fire/crash but not the controller ?
I could see it from Tempe Town Lake and knew it was an aircraft (or at least aircraft fuel). This is unbelievable.
Wait and see. It's possible the controller was not on site. That's not uncommon. (at smaller airports)
I fly here and it’s super busy with a lot of schools and training aircraft. After clearing the jet for takeoff he was probably more concerned with the training aircraft coming into land and departing looked away for a second. The way the fire looked at first was on the road and could have been a car. I don’t even think the Cessna taking off realized it was the plane in front of him just that there was a fire at the end of the runway.
Yeah, because the aircraft is pointed directly at the crash site. The controller is looking at a bunch of other things and likely assumed, like 99.99% of all other times, that the aircraft took off as expected. Rarely is it productive or efficient for an ATC to stare a plane down until it leaves its airspace. And there's no issue here because it's also expected and assumed that outgoing aircraft are not blind and can stop if they see an issue before ATC.
@@GOOBENsticks my complaint at the controller is that he never tried to contact the HondaJet. He needed to hand them off to Departure in a minute or less, and he should have verified the jet was clear before clearing the 172 for takeoff.
But the fact that, even after he was informed of a fire near the end of the runway, he never checked on or tried to contact the jet tells me he forgot they were there. That's inexcusable for a controller. I know we're all human and can't be Superman, but unfortunately controllers are partially responsible for every life in their airspace and need to be as close to Superman as humanly possible. It's unfair, but that's how it works.
A small correction: 4 in the jet dead with one injured; 1 person in the car deceased.
FAA: "A Honda HA-420 jet crashed at Falcon Field Airport in Mesa, Arizona, around 4:40 p.m. local time on Tuesday, Nov. 5. The aircraft struck a vehicle outside of the airport property. Five people were on board the plane. The FAA and the National Transportation Safety Board will investigate. The NTSB will be in charge of the investigation and will provide any updates."
A lot of morons in the comments. You can’t see the entire field all the time. Most fields are quite a few square miles that need to be scanned. The only thing concerning is that when the controller cleared the 2nd aircraft for takeoff on 22L, he didn’t verify the other aircraft had actually got airborne. Anytime you clear someone for takeoff, you should scan the entire length of that runway and the departure and approach ends.
I remember way back in the day I had an aircraft land short of the runway in the grass and rolled up on the runway. I didn’t see that part so when I told them to turn onto the taxiway everything seemed normal until an airliner that was waiting for departure said, tower did you see that. I then enquirer seen what and they explained what had happened. Moral of the story, we can’t focus on just one plane, that is what is called tunnel vision, and tunnel vision will get people killed.
@RetreadPhoto That's what happens when people are hired for the way they look rather than their competence. ATC has been doing DEI hires for several years now.
I agree with one comment. I'm an ex-controller and when you clear a fast mover (Jet) for take off then a Cessna calls for take-off a short time later. It is easy to anticipate that the runway is clear. It's been a few years but I think the rule says the departing aircraft must be clear of the end of the runway before a departure is cleared for take off. It DOESN'T say he must see the departing aircraft cross the end of the runway. A typical example of anticipating separation based on normal operations. In a very busy tower with lots of traffic the controller cannot watch all sections of the airfield continually. His most important area is clearance for take off and aircraft on final and inbound aircraft to the pattern. The other working controllers help watch for unforeseen situations. Wait for official FAA/NTSB report before throwing stones at the controllers.
@@rvrrunner the scan is for more than just to see where the previous departure is at. The scan ensures nothing else got onto the runway inadvertently. Though you really need to see where the previous departure is at prior to issuing the next takeoff clearance. In my career I had two aircraft run off the runway and one that got airborne had an engine failure and touched back down on the runway. Anticipating separating is useful some of the time, but this is not one of those instances.
When they do the review thy are going to ask why he issued that 2nd clearance and there is not a good answer to that
@@austinj3881 The good answer is that separation requirements were met.
3−9−5. ANTICIPATING SEPARATION
Takeoff clearance needs not be withheld until
prescribed separation exists if there is a reasonable
assurance it will exist when the aircraft starts takeoff
roll.
3−9−6. SAME RUNWAY SEPARATION
2. When a Category I aircraft is preceded by a
Category II aircraft− 3,000 feet
The takeoff clearance didn't cause the crash.
@@Demnier separation was never met. You can quote the 7110.65 all you want.
Luckily the accident isn’t his fault but I am sure during the investigation this will come up.
RIP - heart goes out to their families and friends
Controller have blinders on? WOW!
Nobody at the tower was scanning the area?! How is that even possible?
Multiple aircraft on the ground...
Multiple aircraft in the pattern...
Multiple aircraft departing...
Multiple aircraft arriving...
And you seriously believe they can keep their eyes trained on each and every one simultaneously?
why is there no catchment area at the end of the runway for brake failures or rejected takeoffs?
And that's a good question. ✌️🙏
Even looking at the road placement and runway, given certain speeds "things can occur at) it seems there is also very little distance between that road and end of runway...
A situation where "it could've been worse", obviously should be avoided...
Very common. Airports aren't going to buy extra land that is almost never used if they don't have to.
There is. There's the blast pad, and then a small grass field, then a berm that elevates about 15 feet onto a small access road on top, then the perimeter fence.
My condolences
The sun at 1639 local yesterday was about 244 deg azimuth and 9 deg elevation. From the tower, the numbers at the 4R end are at a 256 az, and the final point of rest was around 252 deg. Could the glare of the very low western sun have been a factor in the ATC's seeming lack of awareness of the accident?
The initial "takeoff" and "landing" clearance captions are swapped.
I live about a 3/4 of a mile from the end of that runway. At least it didn't hit the Walmart parking lot across the street.
Absolutely, overrunning into Greenfield is bad enough, thank God it didn't have enough momentum or was slightly airborne because this could have been much worse.
Thanks!
So tower cleared one aircraft to land on 22L then cleared another to not only enter 22L but gave takeoff clearance, all before the HondaJet had left the runway. Then he asks twice why the aircraft aborted takeoff? Someone needs to find a new career...please.
Controller's assessment module is weak.
That is legal in the US. Class D has minimum aircraft separation for runway operations. An aircraft can be cleared to depart or land before the aircraft in front has left the runway if minimum separation can be maintained. If the following aircraft is Cat I (think light single engine), the separation is only 3000'
@@FamiliarAnomaly Man, you were just itching to say DEI. You have literally no idea about the employment history of this person or the full story around the situation, but immediately jumping to conclusions as if they were factual. Typical of anyone bringing up DEI nowadays. as if it were even remotely a good discussion point toward fixing problems.
@@Wake-i4git’s 6000’ not 3000’ and the lead CAT III has to be “airborne”
@@Puncherschance24You are right, I stand corrected. I was thinking just in terms of MTOW it would’ve been a Cat II
This is scary. I take my road bike on this route often. Have to keep and eye out for cars and planes now.
"What's the reason?" - "Look out the window, you moron!"
Can't wait for blancolirio to analyse this one. Yikes!
Talk about a clueless tower. Cleared the Cessna for takeoff without even a clue that the Honda Jet had safely cleared the runway , or in this case, crashed.
Multiple aircraft on the ground...
Multiple aircraft in the pattern...
Multiple aircraft departing...
Multiple aircraft arriving...
Do you seriously think they can keep their eyes trained on each and every one simultaneously?