Michael Shermer with Brian Greene - Mind, Matter, and Our Search for Meaning in an Evolving Universe
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- Listen to the Science Salon Podcast # 108 (audio-only):
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Until the End of Time is Brian Greene’s breathtaking new exploration of the cosmos and our quest to find meaning in the face of this vast expanse. Greene takes us on a journey from the big bang to the end of time, exploring how lasting structures formed, how life and mind emerged, and how we grapple with our existence through narrative, myth, religion, creative expression, science, the quest for truth, and a deep longing for the eternal. From particles to planets, consciousness to creativity, matter to meaning-Brian Greene allows us all to grasp and appreciate our fleeting but utterly exquisite moment in the cosmos.
Dr. Greene is a professor of physics and mathematics and director of Columbia University’s Center for Theoretical Physics and is renowned for his groundbreaking discoveries in superstring theory. He is the author of The Elegant Universe, The Fabric of the Cosmos, and The Hidden Reality, and he has hosted two Peabody and Emmy Award winning NOVA miniseries based on his books. With producer Tracy Day, Greene cofounded the World Science Festival. He lives in New York. Greene and Shermer also discuss:
• God and religion
• why there is something rather than nothing
• What was there before the Big Bang, and what caused it to bang?
• Are mathematics and the laws of nature human constructs or in nature?
• how the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics is the First Law of Life
• How does consciousness arise from physical particles?
• panpsychism
• the Fermi Paradox (where is everybody?)
• the evolutionary origins of storytelling and myth making
• free will and determinism
• finding meaning in a meaningless universe
• Greene’s encounter with J.Z. Knight and her 35,000 year old spirit warrior Ramtha
• Terror Management Theory and the fear of death
• Are moral values human constructs and thus relative, or is there a secular/scientific basis for right and wrong?
This dialogue was recorded on March 9, 2020 as part of the Science Salon Podcast series hosted by Michael Shermer and presented by The Skeptics Society, in California.
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If Brian Greene had been my teacher, I'd've become a physicist not a linguist!!! Such a great mind and such simple ways to explain difficult stuff. I love this guy!
Brian Greene my favorite science communicator and Michael Shermer my favorite Skeptic. Great Exchange gentleman, thanks for the insights.
Brian Greene is always pleasant to listen to. Thanks for this awesome podcast.
I love how Brain Greene always present complex idea in simple language.
The man is a master at simplified image pron analogies, always leaves me in awe.
@@sync4995 Reminds me of Einstein, I always believe the truth is beautiful , elegant and simple.
He's a great communicator.
I agree. As Feynman said if you can’t explain complicated things simple you haven’t understand it good enough. He certainly had a good point.
I don’t agree with Brian because, as long religion does divides us I think it’s a setback for humanity. The truth should be enough for especially a scientist. I don’t say get rid of history, but hanging into a violence ideology I think is a bit disappointing. But Brian you were in your feelings debts, and you need it maybe there. I don’t know but why hang on to traditional and a meaningful farewell. But look at how divided the world is because of religion. A father complex . But religion makes apathy because some think survival from a entity. Yes but knock on wood is private religion is a controlling thing. So there i completely disagree. Why invent what ever, but let it be a private matter.
Thanks Michael for inviting Brian and Brian for his insprirational words, clear views and most of all doubts.
Listening to in-depth conversations like this one make life worth living!
Thank you Michael for your Podcasts, always food for thought, & a source of learning. Always interesting guests (even allowing Deepak - is the true meaning of free speech).
The best conversation in years !
I love both of these men.. Real thinkers with real truths !
Michael, just an observation: I love your new set- the narrow table, the elegant and simple décor- it's just perfect for interviews.
Listening to Brian Greene speak is the best. Yay for TH-cam
With respect to professor Green & MR shermer I have learned a lot’s of ways of scientific program from you and build up my ideas
One of my favourite guest!
A MASTER science communicator and one of the very best writer...The Elegant Universe remains a classic and still one of the best Popular Science books...The Hidden Reality and The Fabric of the Cosmos both were decent reads that expand on his " Elegant Universe " but this one might be his most Philosophical or....meaningful Book.
How I wished we could experimentally test M Theory...
Thank you for this conversation. It was a delight to listen to.
Hello Michael Shermer! I'm just a regular fan of Neil deGrasse Tyson, from Sweden.
I've seen you among Tyson, Richard Dawkins, Krauss, Brian Green etc.
I consider you as much among these guys as any of the ones I mentioned.
Im puzzled why this podcost dont have 100.000 likes :p.
Your way to talk to people is fantastic! Humble, yet you can ask whatever from whoever.
I like this show! Alot!
I've seen Brian do a lot of these sort of interviews on his tour promoting his new book but this was definitely up there as one of the best. Subscribed. Thanks for the great content.
The diversity of his guests is wonderful. As a Cold War kid who was truly terrified of nuclear Armageddon, his discussion with author (sorry forgot the name😔)who wrote a book about the nuclear age was fascinating. The idiocy and utter madness of leadership, military and political, throughout the period was horrific. It’s shocking how times life on the planet was nearly wiped out but for one soldier questioning a monitor, a fortunate circumstance, a cooler head , etc.
This collection of particles is confused yet intrigued.
Great interview two of my admired thinkers. I love listening to Dr. Greene
very articulate and outspoken, pleasant language and a nice voice kinda like "Bill Maher" i saw you on Joe Rogan the type of conversations i like to be part of, or at least listen to.
This was awesome, thank you.
"Time is not important only life is important." (The Fifth Element)
Not being an alien or out of this world for a while, I still haven't heard of Brian Green. I have chosen not to have a TV for about 15 years, and have been streaming through many streaming sources. He is quite interesting and speaks of science in ways that I can understand.
Having the interviewer and guest present in the same room feels more natural. And the professional recording and editing makes it easier to watch. They're always interesting, but it's nice to have the presentation match the quality of the content.
About the beauty of the equation reminds me of Srinivasa Ramanujan , highly recommend everyone to check this guy out.
The most intelligent and thought provoking conversations in the universe
This was a fantastic discussion between Brian and Michael.
In the technological age, people don't need to think of an external entity, or more commonly a"god" beyond themselves, which is making decisions outside of ones perception. We have hundreds of tech companies which can accomplish these imperceptible tasks with ease outside of our awareness. So, in many ways we are returning to an ancient mode of conceptualizing our current times of many technological "gods", so to speak. Which have great powers over us and outside of our independent control and those gods shall not be punished nor dissuaded.
Great conversation Mr Shermer :) Brian Greene is always an enjoyable listen.
Brian Greene is the greatest theoretical physicist that has ever lived.
Nothing is only a word and not anything more. So nothing cannot, by definition, *be*. Only something is capable of being.
Profoundly shallow.
Michael Shermer has the best podcasts....Actually his debates are good too. Intelligent, informative and entertaining!
Great interview! Well done both of you. 😊
Two legends right here
I love Brian!!
Thanks, Guys for sharing your inner neurons to my grasping stage, Cheers
Brian Greene is great!
On the topic of nothing watch Tracy Harris,she said exactly the same as Michael Sharma.It's worth watching.The mind is a conglomerate of many things in the right order.
One reason I like these interviews that Michael does, aside from their intrinsic interest, is that he often mentions people that I wasn't aware of, such as Clay Routledge, in the present interview (bought his book, Supernatural).
First time visiting this site...sub! Thanks for this video..
We wont matter in a million years, but on the other hand that means that what will happen in a million years does not matter to us. - paraphrasing Thomas Nagel, in his article on The Absurd.
About the randomness of our universe , why everything is in this order , I actually have a thought on that. In this very universe , there are actually many planet and galaxy with different variable in our view. Even if the nature law has changed in anyway , there will always be life on some planet in this universe (life form might look different of the same maybe). We know life through our existence , that is the limiting factor to why we couldn't perceive knowledge beyond the known knowledge. Even we could try to understand , we have no way to know if that is a fact as that is just a imaginary scenario.
Very interesting!
I'm a simple man, I see Brian Greene I press like.
Nice, thanks
Anyone watching can be my friend
The Laws of Physics: Man made representations of what the universe is and does.
It's more about how it works
Great setup for the interview, and camera work.
Tres wonderful.
Hi Brian
Dont know if you read these comments????
Great discussion.
I have read that emotions dreams feelings thoughts love etc happen in another dimension that we don't have physical access to.
What are your thoughts??????
"So, zerooskul says: 'Brian Greene is a charlatan!' Thank you, zerooskul. I appreciate that."~Prof. Dr. Brian Greene
I think therefore I think I am and eventually will have thunk I am.
E = mc2 +…+… and energy 'makes' particle, everything is particle, however particle don't need to be a physical particle, it can be a substance particle.
I think Terror managmeent theory is actually being referred to at 42.50 on.
23:00 because subjective experience emerges from evolutionary adaptations that have survival value; like memory, imagination, self reflective awareness, interpersonal empathy, theory of mind etc... more and more complex networks intersecting give rise to more complex levels of consciousness.
When did this podcast start?
November 2015
🌹🌷HI Brain green I watch your science festival videos (I like you) & interviewer 🌺🌷🌹
While I absolutely believe humanity is constructed such that it must seek out transcendent values,... I question whether or not such transcendent values *must* be grounded in supernaturalism. This is why I find eastern religions/philosophies such as Daoism, Buddhism, and especially, Zen Buddhism, to be so great because they all offer paths from the mundane to the profound without having to evoke supernatural agencies to complete their respective narratives.
The following is from what I hope will be on my gravestone so as to provoke a thoughtful reaction from anyone passing by in happenstance. I offer it now as a thoughtful alternative to an afterlife of merely heaven, hell, purgatory, reincarnation, or the many other imagined possibilities.
*The Lake*
*_It is said by some that there is a place where a bright, clear, mountain lake resides, a place where people of this world never visit. To attempt to describe it is possible, but all such tales are probably just fancy. Be that as it may, here is how it was described to me, in my sleep, by the spring rain, when I was still very small and trusting. I was very certain at the time that the rain had not lied or exaggerated, but as I grew older I came to doubt. This would seem to be our way. How sad._*
*_The rain told me that the air at the lake was fresh and clean and yet so thin that I would faint were I to be there. This lake was in the midst of a forest of giant pine trees that appeared to reach forever to the skies above. In contemplating these trees one would wonder if this lake were not really just a small puddle on the forest floor. But as all bodies of water were the same to my singing spring rain, I imagine these distinctions had simply gone unnoticed._*
*_There was something most remarkable about this lake. For I was told that all the souls of all the men & women & little children like myself washed through this water. There seemed to be some hint that all of life had passed by and was passing by this oasis whose place could not be named. As each new life was made, a handful of water was removed from the lake and placed within a mortal body. Day by day the water would be made purer or filthier as that life spent it’s limited time in the world. When that life was done, the water that had been given to it was returned to the lake as its body was returned to dust._*
*_And such was how all the hope and travail of life would come to each new generation. Some would succeed more than it would seem they should and so returned to the lake the courage and celebration that they had made of their lives. Others learned the habit of fear and distrust in their lives when they were very young and so took very meanly of every opportunity as only a threat. They only returned water that was foul and putrid for what else did they ever know._*
*_And so I was told, that was how it was with me and everyone who ever had been, or was, or would be. Parts of me had passed through many lives and parts of me were utterly new and untried. Parts of me would live other lives again and others would be forever still when I was done. None of us was ever created entirely alone nor could we ever be, for like the air and water of this world, which we all communally use and of which our bodies are literally made, our souls are unique and yet all made of the same stuff. How many times would you have to draw water from a lake to draw the same handful? Or is it just a silly question? I don’t know. Somehow it just doesn’t seem to be a very important question now._*
*_What would be an important question anyway?_*
Has empty space been created? Or it was always there?
I just checked out the original film of the day the Earth stood still from my local library. So that's weird and ironic they mentioned that movie.
Gartin Mardner was my progenitor & i miss him. he believed in god because it felt better on an emotional level. it makes the universe & life more interesting. i wonder why no one has written a biography.
The notion that incredibly advanced technology may appeR AS "GODS" is taken up an episode of old Star Trek called "Who Cries for Adonis?" very beautifully and romantically
Brave to touch spiritual
On death: What happened *after* the last time you didn't exist? A birth. Will things be born after you no longer exist?
Well ..you know theoretical physicist's, time is weird. Simple mistake though here, we know what he meant
@@tonyburton419 what who meant?
Damn that Rogan, carlson, hancock debate aged you 10 years
Michael, thanks for the explanation of “The Day the Earth Stood Still” never realized the Christ analogy
Very enjoyable podcast, for once I tend to mostly agree with the conversation, certain topics I just can't get myself to agree with Michael Shermer, he is a smart guy, but at times he gets a bit too cocky, when he needs to be a lot more open minded & purely rational on the subject. Some subjects he takes on well and other subjects feel cringy when he goes into them.
Good conversation striking a nice balance between interview and dialogue.
I was interested in Michael Shermer's thoughts around 14.50. I think the issue here (and it's actually a huge one) is that of fear of our own mortality. Check out Terror Management Theory such as here: th-cam.com/video/SS0mwd9cR24/w-d-xo.html
Why can't we apply the disorder assumption of yours to universal orderly numbers.with that i mean for example for it to be order there must be scientific numbers to explain the order.for the disorder there is no need for these numbers.
Just as there are secular Jews, there are secular christians who value the liturgy and traditions without buying the metaphysics. Our culture is drummed into us from before we are born and it provides the purpose, meaning and values we hold. Fortunately we can critique these values.
The emotionalism of tradition is what makes it so powerful and dangerous. Just because you had meaningful emotions during religious ritual when a parent died, doesn’t mean that’s good. There are other ways of finding meaning and relief that don’t require the price and indeed danger of religious notions. Something else that feels really meaningful and bonds people together in sense of identity and tradition is nationalism; another dangerous emotional reverie.
Well said.
There is a difference between, the purpose of life, and the purpose in life, the atheist can't acknowledged the purpose of life, which results in a person making their own purpose which alot of times ends in their demise
What you state is nonsensical.
1sec did he just said "my brother's a Hare-Krisna devotee"OMG
Life, consciousness, soul, time etc arise/evolve from complexity (chaos) into ordered entities, because every thing in the universe comprise a quantum computing function of unknown algorithm resulting in self-error correcting (fine tuned) particles. That a single probability wave function governs the universe, implies 'divine design'. Man and god are entangled.
This is nothing but great entertainment
Interesting conversation.
It seems that experiencers' bodies are so hardwired to measure phenomenon in order to survive that we believe abstraction cannot possibly exist as real fundamental feature of the world..., if the goal is objective "truth" rather than pragmatism, this mindset seems to shoot the scientific method in the foot imo. Honestly, the suggestion that, in the grand scheme of deep space time, a blip of a collection of groundless shifting particles temporarily arranges for fitness, which sustains the arrangement a bit longer, and somehow invents a useful fiction (mathematics & logic) as the grounding for "objective truth", which is physical, but the two "correspond" .... just seems like a bizarre tautology to me, and I'm not sure if this worldview takes us closer to the entrance of the cave or just digs us further in. There something nonsensical about a "narrative" invented by a "collection of shifting physical particles" being a useful fiction as far as the "real objective world" is concerned, but the collection uses the fiction to somehow accurately describe "reality".
Although it's not even theoretically possible to step outside of the totality of existence and point to an ordered or disordered system, and calculate a percentage of autopoiesis versus entropy, what if the entire system simply IS perfectly and symmetrically ordered... the whole entropic two step had no beginning and won't ever end; why are we so convinced there was a first cause to existence? it seems like anthropomorphization.... not to get too poetic or Hari Krishna here, but...a harmonious symphony of creative order within an Infinite timeless best of all possible worlds *que Angel choir*
Like he said in the beginning of the video, thousands of years from now "we" will probably think differently about "reality", so why is he so certain that, in billions of years, all "entities" will evaporate away into a cold death of "nothing" based upon phenomenon of redshift, gas equalizing in a jar, and then mathematical calculations? it's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
here's a fun Dr. Seuss question: assuming infinite divisibility, if you could shift your perspective of the world & Planck length is relatively larger than "you", what would your perception of the world be like, and what would mathematics be like.... if you couldn't remember having existed at the biological scale?
if we lived in a quantum world, our world would not exist to us, as we know it,
Lol "I don't sit there crying or anything:
MAC beth
He reminds me of bill marr..kinda sounds like him lol
For some people, religion lowers the level of anxiety. So, religion will be around for the foreseeable future.🙂🙂🙂🙂
Brian Greene is one of my favorite scientist and I will be buying his book.
Another amazing scientist that I have been learning about is Sabina Hossenfelder. She is also a talented performer and has also produced some music TH-cam Videos. If you have not heard of her, you can check out her channel here th-cam.com/channels/1yNl2E66ZzKApQdRuTQ4tw.html
I have been watching her TH-cam videos and find that she has what it takes to explain what science has taught us about the universe in simple easy to understand language and she is also honest about what science cannot teach us. Here is what you can expect. th-cam.com/video/VHhUCav_Jrk/w-d-xo.html.
If you have the opportunity, a podcast with you and Sabina would be amazing.
I'm troubled by the idea that following your intuition and accepting non-truths because they "feel" good or help you get over some trauma is the way to go. We sometimes give folks a pass on the God question because there's this idea that if it works for them, why should we take that away from them? It's harmless positivity, right? However, if you swallow that pill, you have to also swallow the bad medicine too. You also have to swallow the abusive leadership and power structures in organized religion, non-science pushed as fact in schools, and public policy that actively harms subordinate/minority groups (eg, women and abortion, gays and marriage, Muslims and due process). Political power isn't some bug in religion that needs to be worked out by New Age anything-goes spirituality. Power and control is an inherent feature of religion. You can't have religion without a power structure.
Brian Greene comes off like such an amiable guy, but I just can't accept the "cherry picking is good" argument. If you are cherry picking the messages of your religion, it's a concession that your religion doesn't have some special access to timeless truths about the universe. It's just another work of fiction or literature with no special explanatory power. I suspend my disbelief in movies all the time, but I can't possibly imagine suspending my disbelief for long enough to both cherry pick my religion and practice it at the same time. I imagine Brian's live-and-let-die attitude is a feature of his relatively privileged position. However, a gay teen in a Southern Baptist household or a young Muslim woman in Saudi Arabia doesn't necessarily enjoy the luxury of take-it-or-leave-it religious belief. They don't get to cherry pick.
I get that feeling connected to a bigger picture feels good, and I understand nobody wants to be the wet blanket in a social setting. But liberal religious belief has no tools in its tool belt to deal with societal issues. If I believe I descend from a pure, noble bloodline of Aryan super-men because it makes me "feel" good, connected to history, and linked to my social group, then it also makes me "feel" good to spread propaganda and pass laws that elevate my group and oppress other groups. The liberal religious believer is left stammering about why that's a bad result. "That's racist" or "That's sexist" means nothing to the Aryan extremist, because those concepts aren't important in his religious thought. Generally, the liberal believer needs to turn to secularism and philosophy to deal with antisocial forces. My question is why didn't you just start there?
It seems that there are many hideous flat earthers in the comment section who had subscribed to this channel.
Fermi paradox? What's the paradox? There's no paradox. We don't even know enough to say whether the galaxy is densely populated or not. We haven't even looked.
Einstein, Darwin and Sagan were spiritual in a certain sense (of course not in the usual religious sense.).
Easy for me because I love science and have no need for superstition. But we have come so long and the second law of thermodynamics is one of the most important facts. But people often forget about time and the motor like gravity gets into stars which were making our elements and apparently it will be a heat death( or a rip etc). Spiritual is a kind of deep concentration and might release some endorphins and loosely said it is naturally I think. ( just some thoughts) but we will be better to explain these complicated issues. But a very good podcast, but why some people are afraid to let their children go into the learning of evolution is scary . I made these particles complicated for my self- is that free will. And I don’t think it’s that important but philosophical issues like this is very interesting but after a while it seems unimportant. Because if I think it’s a free will disprove it then. Well anyway good
Death:
"The Self is an illusion" - Sam Harris.
The "Self" is what we refer to when we say "I", or "Me".
Brains are Self causers.
In the very same way the birth of a brain caused the Self that is reading this right now - the birth of new brains will cause yet more Selfs. One of those new Selfs will come directly after the current Self ends due to brain death.
So Brian Greene essentially thinks that we can make no extrapolation from human morality to universal morality. I would say that we actually CAN do that, insofar as reality has allowed us and our ancestor life forms to exist for billions of years, proving that the laws somehow deem us worthy. We ofc still gotta prove that what we have is universal morality somehow, for example by expanding life in the universe, to maybe find a way to better arrange all matter within the universe.
Hey! Just call your aliens so they could help us now...ha? Or travel back in time so you could change the past, and be able us to avoid this covid 19...possible???
Politics is the means by which society decides upon what is the proper use of socially sanctioned initiatory violence. While there are many things free people *should* do,... what *must* free people do,... as in literally do this or you will be forced to with the proviso that if you resist you may be killed.
Consider the following as a starting social contract between free people that is a work in progress.
*The Anarchist's Constitution*
1. *_There is no Sovereign Immunity._* Any Person (or Persons) who commits force, fraud, or trespass against any other Person’s life, body, or property is liable for restitution to repair the victim to their original condition.
2. *_The Right to be left alone is Absolute, subject only to the enforcement of the first rule._* Any Person (or Persons) may deny the use of their life, body, or property to anyone else without any necessity to justify the reasons for their denial.
3. There are no exceptions to these 4 rules.
4. These rules being observed,… do whatever you will.
Remember,… any additional positive duties imposed necessarily imply the state’s right, even duty, to kill anyone who does not comply.
Is the only positive duty that of _if you break it, you must fix it_ sufficient,... or might there need to be more such positive duties. I am basically asking what unchosen, positive duties would all free people *have to observe* always,... even in an anarcho-capitalist libertopia. Rather than considering a contract between the government and a free people,... I am considering a contract between all free peoples with each other and regardless of individual consent. How can it be a contract,... regardless of individual consent,... you may ask? I think of it as the political equivalent of the necessity of all mathematics having to rely upon the use of axioms,... statements that are taken as self-evidently true requiring no further effort to prove. Anarcho-capitalists talk of rules without rulers. Okay,... so I am asking, what are these rules,.. how do we arrive at a consensus of what these rules are,... and what happens to those who dissent from these rules?
I am trying to start projects where anyone participating can submit a peer to peer social contract,.. similar to the way the internet itself works so well. Forget governments for a moment. Think specifically in terms of what positive, affirmative duties do we have towards each other. While there are many things free people *_should_* do, what *_must_* free people do,... literally,... or risk being killed for not doing it. This is serious shit!
I understand Anarcho-Capitalists as believing there should be no unchosen, positive, affirmative duty,... other than everyone has to fix what they break, ie., restitution. That unless it's consensual, it ain't moral. Minarchists aren't so sure that that is enough.
Do people consent to having to make restitution for the damages they cause others?
What is to be done with those people who refuse to make restitution for their injurious actions to others?
What is to be done with a serial killer, and how is this paid for?
Is it okay not to help an abandoned infant who will otherwise die?
Would it be okay for a mother to just leave a new born infant?
What do you think should be done about international trafficking in children as sex toys.
What do you want done with adults who do this? Is restitution really enough? Is it satisfying?
What is to be done with someone who is very wealthy and regards paying restitution as merely an inconvenience with no qualms about the injuries he does to others?
Can no violent response be made to those who gratuitously mistreat and harm animals?
Can someone who owns the last breeding pair of an endangered species destroy them at will?
Would it be okay for entrepreneurs to create limited liability corporations in which costs from debts and pollution are socialized and profits are held privately?
Is it just that such shareholders are liable only for the money they have invested, with no liability for any costs that corporation may have involuntarily imposed on innocent third parties?
A very practical question is what duty would citizens have in libertopia to cooperate with those trying to enforce what rules are to exist upon everyone,... even without everyone's individual consent?
Is justice always satisfied simply by paying restitution,... even when someone has violently violated your daughters?
This list is in no sense exhaustive. I consider all of this to comprise various works in progress. What are the minimum set of rules (these rules without rulers ) that even anarcho-capitalists seem to recognize as necessary? How do we arrive at such a consensus? What happens to those who dissent?
Again, politics is the means by which society decides upon what is the proper use of socially sanctioned initiatory violence. This is unavoidable, even in libertopia. Just curious, but would you hold that *The Anarchist's Constitution* is sufficient for a functioning free society. Can you really not think of various instances where even free people would have to submit, regardless of their individual wishes?
And please remember, I would be just as happy to learn more from this debate, but where Libertarians only see violence as a means to protect value and not as a means to create value, I am now asking, in all good will,... is this really necessarily so? Because certainly we are alone in believing this to the extent that we do.
Does the truth derive from authority or
Does authority derive from the truth?
Does respect flow more from admiration or from fear?
Eco chamber much?
guy invited the man to his podcast and starts reading his own book to the guest. the character of some people smh
16:30 Hare Krishnas dont ask for donations, but distribute books that reveal the spiritual reality.
something for the theists....."do you have any proof that you are not already in heaven and just making a mess of it?" ..............................Sadguru
Never argue with an atheist. Never argue with a theist. The two have nothing in common.
Brian greene is the educator....more so than 🤔
"There is no significant example in history, before our time, of a society successfully maintaining moral life without the aid of religion. France, the United States, and some other nations have divorced their governments from all churches, but they have had the help of religion in keeping social order. Only a few Communist states have not merely dissociated themselves from religion but have repudiated its aid; and perhaps the apparent and provisional success of this experiment in Russia owes much to the temporary acceptance of Communism as the religion (or, as skeptics would say, the opium) of the people, replacing the church as the vendor of comfort and hope. If the socialist regime should fail in its efforts to destroy relative poverty among the masses, this new religion may lose its fervor and efficacy, and the state may wink at the restoration of supernatural beliefs as an aid in quieting discontent. “As long as there is poverty there will be gods.”"
~ Will Durant
"If by God we mean not the creative vitality of nature but a supreme being intelligent and benevolent, the answer must be a reluctant negative. Like other departments of biology, history remains at bottom a natural selection of the fittest individuals and groups in a struggle wherein goodness receives no favors, misfortunes abound, and the final test is the ability to survive. Add to the crimes, wars, and cruelties of man the earthquakes, storms, tornadoes, pestilences, tidal waves, and other “acts of God” that periodically desolate human and animal life, and the total evidence suggests either a blind or an impartial fatality, with incidental and apparently haphazard scenes to which we subjectively ascribe order, splendor, beauty, or sublimity. If history supports any theology this would be a dualism like the Zoroastrian or Manichaean: a good spirit and an evil spirit battling for control of the universe and men’s souls. These faiths and Christianity (which is essentially Manichaean) assured their followers that the good spirit would win in the end; but of this consummation history offers no guarantee. Nature and history do not agree with our conceptions of good and bad; they define good as that which survives, and bad as that which goes under; and the universe has no prejudice in favor of Christ as against Genghis Khan."
~ Will Durant
"To the unhappy, the suffering, the bereaved, the old, it has brought supernatural comforts valued by millions of souls as more precious than any natural aid. It has helped parents and teachers to discipline the young. It has conferred meaning and dignity upon the lowliest existence, and through its sacraments has made for stability by transforming human covenants into solemn relationships with God. It has kept the poor (said Napoleon) from murdering the rich. For since the natural inequality of men dooms many of us to poverty or defeat, some supernatural hope may be the sole alternative to despair. Destroy that hope, and class war is intensified. Heaven and utopia are buckets in a well: when one goes down the other goes up; when religion declines Communism grows."
~ Will Durant
While Catholics were murdering Protestants in France, and Protestants, under Elizabeth, were murdering Catholics in England, and the Inquisition was killing and robbing Jews in Spain, and Bruno was being burned at the stake in Italy, Akbar invited the representatives of all the religions in his empire to a conference, pledged them to peace, issued edicts of toleration for every cult and creed, and, as evidence of his own neutrality, married wives from the Brahman, Buddhist, and Mohammedan faiths. His greatest pleasure, after the fires of youth had cooled, was in the free discussion of religious beliefs. … The King took no stock in revelations, and would accept nothing that could not justify itself with science and philosophy. It was not unusual for him to gather friends and prelates of various sects together, and discuss religion with them from Thursday evening to Friday noon. When the Moslem mullahs and the Christian priests quarreled he reproved them both, saying that God should be worshiped through the intellect, and not by a blind adherence to supposed revelations. "Each person," he said, in the spirit - and perhaps through the influence - of the Upanishads and Kabir, "according to his condition gives the Supreme Being a name; but in reality to name the Unknowable is vain."
~ Will Durant
"The invention and spread of contraceptives is the proximate cause of our changing morals. The old moral code restricted sexual experience to marriage, because copulation could not be effectively separated from parentage, and parentage could be made responsible only through marriage. But to-day the dissociation of sex from reproduction has created a situation unforeseen by our fathers. All the relations of men and women are being changed by this one factor; and the moral code of the future will have to take account of these new facilities which invention has placed at the service of ancient desires."
~ Will Durant
"I feel for all faiths the warm sympathy of one who has come to learn that even the trust in reason is a precarious faith, and that we are all fragments of darkness groping for the sun."
~ Will Durant
"Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance."
~ Will Durant
Ironically Shermer's examples of universal, timeless moral absolutes (slavery, etc) have all been accepted or rejected at different times by different cultures. Slavery was popular(and moral) for thousands or maybe hundreds of thousand years, and persists today.
Humans form tribes and cooperate. Imagine spider morality.
Are you two long lost brothers?