DauT is top 15 while losing castles, being out microed, and having a low APM... He is undeniably a strategical mastermind, the best in my opinion. Imagine if he was as consistent as you and Viper.
16:15 It’s like chess ELO. I think it’s hard to understand for video game players. But chess ELO represents “probability to win”. Doesn’t matter C tier or S tier tournament , doesn’t matter if you win a best of 3, the way ELO are computed are the same. Because ELO are not “points”. Basically Chess ELO algorithm is made a way that a 100 point difference between player A and player B means A win 3 times out of 4 against B.
Yeah but Aoe2 is a tad different especially with civ drafts. Every game is not equal, unlike in chess, someone might decide to basically give up a game and use his 'bad civ' to waste opponents 'strong civ' so he has better chance to win the whole set altough it lowers his chances to win by landslide number. And for Aoe2 players only set wins matter. But maybe small sample sizes, especially in earlier stages of the game's history, is an incentive to count every game instead of a set.
Do you think it is any different for chess player. The word champion is barely in the top 10, but he is word champion. He may not be the best player as the best player as higher ELO but he got the title and as any progamer, he got the money that come with the stage victory.
It is different because of civ draft tactics that are not necessarily aiming to win every game but maximaze chances to win the set. Chess players are playing with the same civs every game so to speak.
And in general, if you have top15 player with Georgians playing against top5 player with Dravidians, actually the top15 player propably is expected to win that game. But Elo system wrongly expects that top5 player should win. That is inherently different to chess where "civs are the same"
Crazy how you can see in real time how Vipers injury and recovery sent him from consistent top 1-2 down to being outside of the top 5 for a brief period
Until that injury, it felt like nobody would ever beat Viper. The way he played the game was so majestic to watch in his prime. Edit: and the crazy thing is he's now even better than then... just used to be the Magnus Carlson of aoe
I started playing back in 2001 to when the zone closed. I remember Koven, Halen, Chris, Grunt, Capoch, daut. Recorded games of these guys were rare to come by so it was hard to learn their strats and this helped them stay on top. The lag back then was also incredibly bad as everyone's internet sucked, so micro was completely different. So much nostalgia seeing these names again. Miss the good ole days of being a kid and being able to play aoc all day and night 😂
Hera, I'd love to know if you can make a video or series on old gameplay vs new gameplay, just to showcase how both the meta and game knowledge has improved since the early 2000s
@@isaacarismendi1829 this would be interesting, but there are game play mechanic changes since then and lag used to be really bad back in the day which meant a lot of modern strats would be harder to pull off. I remember clicking to tell units to change direction and they might walk across two tiles before they responded 😂. Huns were king on Arabia for the longest time and was the only civ you really saw played. Walling wasn't very popular, it was all about constant aggression with skirms and pikes, or scouts in fuedal. Then knight or calv archer in castle.
@@justinshankle I wasn't thinking on using old mechanics in today's AoE2, just old footage from pros or tournaments to compare them with newer mechanics and play styles
I came in around the 2018 scene so it's been so cool to watch the progression of Hera, Lierrey, TaToh, Viper and Yo... lot of really talented players and some banger tournaments
Yeah! great vid. for sure, congrats to him and big thx to make it! Also the final strats are also very interesting imo: Days as no.1.: 1. TheViper 3036; 2.Chris 2264; 3.DauT 1360; 4.Hera 825+(only needs 7+ years to catch up :) :D) Days in the Top15: 1. DauT 7871 basicly Viper needs ~9 years to cach up, the others needs 10+ if my quick math is correct!? Thats just an other insane Stat, right?
They probably should've put flags next to names. IamJordan is a Taiwanese player from WCG era who played both AoM & AoE2 competitively and not Jordan23.
2:05 I think Liereyy is born around here ^^ The period where Daut falls down is when he has a hand injury and plays a lot poker and smokes a lot of shisha etc.
it was weird watching this. I am a dude that spent most of his life on a laptop / pc and followed every single tourney from way back in 2014 ish -2024. I can remember all sorts of retro youtube content and following the Early NAC/ King of the deserts , Redbulls, all sorts of random tourneys. I can remember all you guys young, all on "the raise" and how the versions of the game and patches changed. Old OP civs/ builds / strats/ broken patches... man this game is such a rewarding spectators sport (I can only beat the Extreme AI on some maps) and never got into Multiplayer myself but know so much about the game. GG everyone . The fans are out here and we grew up with you guys and this wonderful game!
4:14 "These are the early days of AOE" said about 2004. It's amazing that a game from 1999 is still going strong 25 years after it began and even 5 years after launch is considered early days. Most games lose relevancy after 5 months!
IamJordan is not the same player as JorDan. The first was a player from Taiwan who competed beetwen August 2000 and April 2003 as indicated in the AoE Tournament ELO website. The second is the JorDan we all know, the brightest smile in the game. Moreover, fire and F1re also are not the same player either. F1re is the brazilian player, former member of the clan Tyrant, and fire was a german player who competed beetwen May 2001 and November 2002 as indicated in the AoE Tournament ELO website. Greetings.
Im 43 years old, i was a fan of aoe1, i bought aoe2 on release day and have followed the game for 27 years. I say this with all respect. I dont think the world would know the name Viper or Hera if the Koreans still played this game. They are on a different lvl when it comes to RTS games
To complicate this video's narrative even further, I'm pretty sure the player Dreams from early on isn't the Finnish guy you're familiar with, but a Dutch player who spelled Dreams without the M being composed of two I's and a V.
Great recap. Back when I first started around 2013, there was literally nobody who could even challenge Viper. If he lost it felt like he wasnt taking it seriously. He will always be the Goat for me. So innovative and smart with his play compared to anyone else in his era. Also important to note that this was the Tyrant era and it included RiuT, DauT and Jordan23 and a Korean player who I forget his name now, but also a very strategic team game player. Tyrant was so good that their B team included players like Slam and F1re who were both top 10. Top 10 wasnt even good enough to make the cut. Insane.
Thanks for commenting the video. I watched it but every player who's not playing since 2020/21 is unknown for me. So it is really interesting to hear about those former (pro) players.
My take on the fact that each individual game is factored into the ELO and not just the match win : if you win a tight 5-4 final, or absolutely steamroll the opposition 5-0, I think it is meaningful as "how much above the rest you really are", despite the overall wins. Same if you struggle more than your elo "expected" you to, and you lose points despite winning by tighter margins. I think it portrays well whether you are truly dominant, or if your competition is close behind you.
The thing is that today we have a lot of tournaments, so viewers know that youre the best at the moment, like, theres been 2 year with 8s tier tournaments, thats something that didnt happened before, and that is something that affects perceptions towards Daut and a little to Viper, if there were as many tournaments as today before, them both would have a lot of records and stuff
DAUT and viper in the same team Lord passing the baton to vipi then vipi and Hera in same team now vipi passing the baton to Hera so i think vinchester or sebastian are gonna be next in GL after a couple of years of Hera"s dominance
You said it yourself. The biggest argument why you are in fact the greatest player to ever touch this game. You are dominating in a much more competitive era. I would put my money on today's Hera over any iteration of Daut or Viper through the ages. You are the one. Longetivity isn't as important when you aknowledge yourself there's two tournaments a year. You are the one.
Hey Hera I'm hoping you might consider dropping a video on your thoughts about rams. I played Aoe2 for years growing up and just recently got back into it (so I could whoop my brother 😂) and a tactic I enjoy, and have had some pretty good success with is immediately in castle age, building a few rams and filling them with infantry with arson (halbs if they're a cav civ especially) and just yoloing them accompanied usually with some cheap light cav or skirmishers straight for the centre of their settlement and then either 1) dropping the infantry out if cav attack me or 2) I drop a heap of infantry in the centre of his settlement and force him to either take my rams or my infantry. Either way I usually get a fair bit of bang for my buck. Not a war winning strategy but definitely throws my opponent off whilst I'm either securing the map or building trebs or eco boosting etc. Is this a strategy that you would consider useful at top tier or not? Sorry if you've already answered this question before 😅
It's insane that Hera only started playing in 2013! Makes me think I could have been on the same level. All I needed was more playtime. And actual talent. Damnit, I was so close!
Hera maybe find some old recs/ games over the years and do a set of long deep dive streams/ content related . Maybe set up a PC exclusively to run old HD and voobly recorded games .
I think it's fair that the tournament elo system is calculated by the matchup. Hera winning vs. Barles 3:2 is still a decent result for Barles because he took 2 games from Hera. But yeah it should take into account the tournament tiers, especially if it also counts showmatches and such.
I saw it a few days ago, I've never thought that DauT was so high ranked in 2004, I mean he looks old in comparison to all others (sorry DauT, if you read this 😅) it's the biggest surprise in this statistics
The ELO loss even if you win just happened in the Chess world Championship match, Gukesh won the match and is the new world champion but actually lost 7 elo points in the match 11
Hera is the clear GoaT based on biggest gap between #1 and #2, but Viper is still the GoaT in terms of sheer dominance over a long stretch. Can't wait to check back in 2030 to see if Hera takes that crown :) (Hera is my personal favorite and I always root for him in tourneys.)
This early day tournament ELO is very skewed. Legion clan tourneys are being counted here and they were not open to public. Arbalet had them like every week and it was like a Daut, Chris Capoch run around. Also most of these were Arabia. BsK (Berserker Clan) kinda showed up and started doing really good tourneys where Grunt became top again. Daut lost to Grunt in a finals of one of these big tourneys. I dunno it’s been 20 years haha. I might be mixing shit up. The big tournaments aren’t being counted high enough. HALEN (Japan) (_lyncher, _oN_Silva_) was the true number one player in the world for a while. His forward single stable tower rush was pure micro S-tier, which I think he beat Chris easily with in the finals of some huge tourney. Then he quit after winning all the majors and Chris started doing his 20 pop quick rush thing.
I think it would have been useful to put the players' nationality on the board, in order to prevent confusing different players with similar names. IamJoran and Jordan_23 are different players, for example. The German Jordan would have been like 10 back in the early 2000s, the other Jordan was Taiwanese or something. Similarly, Dream and Dreams aren't the same player, and neither are Fire and F1re.
Does anybody notice, Hera does not talk about TaToh at any point of video, Tatoh comes, he did not mention as he mention other player, even gave shoutout to MBL when he pops up twice, TaToh was consistently on top two, but Hera did not bother to mention any reference with him.. i think something is cooking between them. its my opinion. I am saying this because I like tatoh gameplay and I only know few players from t90 videos. and I want them to have a shoutout, missed Tatoh.
14:45 i made a similar comment in the original video, and the sorely uneducated people in this community were trying to roast me for it. Its nice to hear you echoing my sentiment, backed up by mathematical data.
He was very innovative. I think he invented the 22 pop rush. Pretty sure he had something to do with popularizing the Aztec Drush too. He was creative and very smart.
FWIW, Chris wrote a book "Keys To 1vs1 Age of Empires 2: The Conquerors World Domination" about how to play Aoe2. It was released a long time ago and should be outdated,
As for the method of rating: though I agree that tournament tier realistically matters when it comes to assessing someone's skill additionally to their win/loss results, I think having someone potentially lose Elo if they've won a tourney against someone is also fair. After all, even the ranked system scores per match, not per set of N matches. Wouldn't you expect a 3k Elo player to have fewer points after winning 3, but losing 2 games to someone with 2k Elo?
I think this is fine in a format where every game matters. In chess, so long as you play an even number of games between black and white, no particular game is more important than any other and there is no advantage to be had by sacking games. AoE2 there is a potential counter argument because of the draft, map pick and best of X formats. I'm not saying it is a bad rating system, but I do believe it is less accurate than it would be in a game like chess.
@@beaky8138 Maybe the rating-per-match argument is not that good, but, looking at it another way, I would definitely expect someone like Viper to beat a 2k player at least 5 to 1, but more likely 5 to 0, right? If I suddenly see Viper winning 5 to 4, I would consider either Viper's skill to have diminished or the 2k player to have caught up in an impressive way.
Grunt basically dominated Aoe3 till 2009, then he had a brief return and after that military service and never returned, thats why he dropped out so drastically in 2006, because Aoe3 was released in late 2005. Played against him couple of times in Aoe3, he was a insane with Portoguese, when nearly everyone played natives. Also not saving games and non recording was very common back then, to avoid leakage of strategys. i Remember playing againast a guy called meisterstrage21(i think), dude was basically aoe3's dagao, playing the same shit every game.
Maybe a hot take but I feel like Viper is the Bobby Fisher of AoE2 and Hera is the Magnus Carlsen. Both GOAT's in their own right, but Hera is proving to be more methodical. Viper f**ks around and has fun a lot and it hurts his tourney consistency.
Hera isn't even in the GOAT conversation. He needs to sustain his dominance for at least a few more years before that is even a reasonable consideration for him over Viper and Daut.
Something important about this video: it's wrong, at least in one area. Chris hit 2.6k back in the days of the Zone. I remember it because he was the first player to do it. It was a big deal. But this video doesn't reflect that. I'm not sure why, but Koven, Daut, Grunt, Chris, and several others... these guys rating were definitely higher than 2/2.1k.
DauT is top 15 while losing castles, being out microed, and having a low APM... He is undeniably a strategical mastermind, the best in my opinion. Imagine if he was as consistent as you and Viper.
Daut is Daut th-cam.com/video/cxJ1t3l53Yc/w-d-xo.html
IamJordan and Jordan_23 are different players. IamJordan was, I think, from Taiwan or something. Different to the German Jordan most of us know.
True
Wow i had no idea! Great correction thank you
Correct, IamJordan was from Taiwan.
Oh dang! I always thought they were the same player!! 🤦🏻♂️
Im not 100% sure, but it might be the case with F1re aswell? dont know
16:15 It’s like chess ELO. I think it’s hard to understand for video game players. But chess ELO represents “probability to win”.
Doesn’t matter C tier or S tier tournament , doesn’t matter if you win a best of 3, the way ELO are computed are the same. Because ELO are not “points”.
Basically Chess ELO algorithm is made a way that a 100 point difference between player A and player B means A win 3 times out of 4 against B.
Also ELO system in general is adopted from chess by aoe2. So aoe2 ELO/ELO is the chess ELO system
Yeah but Aoe2 is a tad different especially with civ drafts. Every game is not equal, unlike in chess, someone might decide to basically give up a game and use his 'bad civ' to waste opponents 'strong civ' so he has better chance to win the whole set altough it lowers his chances to win by landslide number. And for Aoe2 players only set wins matter. But maybe small sample sizes, especially in earlier stages of the game's history, is an incentive to count every game instead of a set.
Do you think it is any different for chess player. The word champion is barely in the top 10, but he is word champion. He may not be the best player as the best player as higher ELO but he got the title and as any progamer, he got the money that come with the stage victory.
It is different because of civ draft tactics that are not necessarily aiming to win every game but maximaze chances to win the set. Chess players are playing with the same civs every game so to speak.
And in general, if you have top15 player with Georgians playing against top5 player with Dravidians, actually the top15 player propably is expected to win that game. But Elo system wrongly expects that top5 player should win. That is inherently different to chess where "civs are the same"
Crazy how you can see in real time how Vipers injury and recovery sent him from consistent top 1-2 down to being outside of the top 5 for a brief period
Until that injury, it felt like nobody would ever beat Viper. The way he played the game was so majestic to watch in his prime.
Edit: and the crazy thing is he's now even better than then... just used to be the Magnus Carlson of aoe
Nice for you to support other members of the community :) He got my subscription too.
I started playing back in 2001 to when the zone closed. I remember Koven, Halen, Chris, Grunt, Capoch, daut. Recorded games of these guys were rare to come by so it was hard to learn their strats and this helped them stay on top. The lag back then was also incredibly bad as everyone's internet sucked, so micro was completely different. So much nostalgia seeing these names again. Miss the good ole days of being a kid and being able to play aoc all day and night 😂
Why no koven in this list ? He was no1
Koven was first guy I listed...
Hera, I'd love to know if you can make a video or series on old gameplay vs new gameplay, just to showcase how both the meta and game knowledge has improved since the early 2000s
daut has a vid up playing an old strat and talking a bit about the difference, Fun to watch
@@isaacarismendi1829 this would be interesting, but there are game play mechanic changes since then and lag used to be really bad back in the day which meant a lot of modern strats would be harder to pull off. I remember clicking to tell units to change direction and they might walk across two tiles before they responded 😂. Huns were king on Arabia for the longest time and was the only civ you really saw played. Walling wasn't very popular, it was all about constant aggression with skirms and pikes, or scouts in fuedal. Then knight or calv archer in castle.
@@justinshankle I wasn't thinking on using old mechanics in today's AoE2, just old footage from pros or tournaments to compare them with newer mechanics and play styles
I came in around the 2018 scene so it's been so cool to watch the progression of Hera, Lierrey, TaToh, Viper and Yo... lot of really talented players and some banger tournaments
Yeah! great vid. for sure, congrats to him and big thx to make it!
Also the final strats are also very interesting imo:
Days as no.1.: 1. TheViper 3036; 2.Chris 2264; 3.DauT 1360; 4.Hera 825+(only needs 7+ years to catch up :) :D)
Days in the Top15: 1. DauT 7871 basicly Viper needs ~9 years to cach up, the others needs 10+ if my quick math is correct!?
Thats just an other insane Stat, right?
Who is that Hera guy in this list?
Very fast player with low IQ, wont last very long
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 lmao
@@HeraAgeofEmpires2 Yeah he just got lucky in like 20 tournaments in a row.
he is the beginning of an H-era
DauT has to be the most long-lived AoE2 player of all time
Fatslob is around for some time also...
The fire at 3:12 is pG_fire_. F1Re pops up later with his "correct" spelling.
pG_fire_ also won the first aom tournament at the wcg
They probably should've put flags next to names. IamJordan is a Taiwanese player from WCG era who played both AoM & AoE2 competitively and not Jordan23.
Can confirm this is correct
2:05 I think Liereyy is born around here ^^
The period where Daut falls down is when he has a hand injury and plays a lot poker and smokes a lot of shisha etc.
I think it should start with Maimen Mattie (sp?) On the list. He was the best when everyone was just making it up on the fly - pure innovation.
it was weird watching this. I am a dude that spent most of his life on a laptop / pc and followed every single tourney from way back in 2014 ish -2024. I can remember all sorts of retro youtube content and following the Early NAC/ King of the deserts , Redbulls, all sorts of random tourneys. I can remember all you guys young, all on "the raise" and how the versions of the game and patches changed. Old OP civs/ builds / strats/ broken patches... man this game is such a rewarding spectators sport (I can only beat the Extreme AI on some maps) and never got into Multiplayer myself but know so much about the game. GG everyone . The fans are out here and we grew up with you guys and this wonderful game!
I really enjoy the time you put into highlighting other content creators in the scene. Keep up the good work!
So fascinating looking at the history of this games competitive scene, thanks for the insight!
4:14 "These are the early days of AOE" said about 2004. It's amazing that a game from 1999 is still going strong 25 years after it began and even 5 years after launch is considered early days. Most games lose relevancy after 5 months!
IamJordan is not the same player as JorDan. The first was a player from Taiwan who competed beetwen August 2000 and April 2003 as indicated in the AoE Tournament ELO website. The second is the JorDan we all know, the brightest smile in the game. Moreover, fire and F1re also are not the same player either. F1re is the brazilian player, former member of the clan Tyrant, and fire was a german player who competed beetwen May 2001 and November 2002 as indicated in the AoE Tournament ELO website.
Greetings.
Im 43 years old, i was a fan of aoe1, i bought aoe2 on release day and have followed the game for 27 years. I say this with all respect. I dont think the world would know the name Viper or Hera if the Koreans still played this game. They are on a different lvl when it comes to RTS games
Haha I knew it would only be a matter of time until you reacted to this! Saw it on my home page- and it was a great video.
To complicate this video's narrative even further, I'm pretty sure the player Dreams from early on isn't the Finnish guy you're familiar with, but a Dutch player who spelled Dreams without the M being composed of two I's and a V.
Yes! Also Fire=/=F1RE :)
Great recap. Back when I first started around 2013, there was literally nobody who could even challenge Viper. If he lost it felt like he wasnt taking it seriously.
He will always be the Goat for me. So innovative and smart with his play compared to anyone else in his era.
Also important to note that this was the Tyrant era and it included RiuT, DauT and Jordan23 and a Korean player who I forget his name now, but also a very strategic team game player. Tyrant was so good that their B team included players like Slam and F1re who were both top 10. Top 10 wasnt even good enough to make the cut. Insane.
Loved the video! Would like to see more in this fashion, thanks!
Thanks for commenting the video. I watched it but every player who's not playing since 2020/21 is unknown for me. So it is really interesting to hear about those former (pro) players.
My take on the fact that each individual game is factored into the ELO and not just the match win : if you win a tight 5-4 final, or absolutely steamroll the opposition 5-0, I think it is meaningful as "how much above the rest you really are", despite the overall wins. Same if you struggle more than your elo "expected" you to, and you lose points despite winning by tighter margins. I think it portrays well whether you are truly dominant, or if your competition is close behind you.
Jordan, Daut, & Nicov all top 12 players today, 20+ years after they started. As a dude Daut's age, that is just so cool.
The thing is that today we have a lot of tournaments, so viewers know that youre the best at the moment, like, theres been 2 year with 8s tier tournaments, thats something that didnt happened before, and that is something that affects perceptions towards Daut and a little to Viper, if there were as many tournaments as today before, them both would have a lot of records and stuff
16:15 so basiclly it is an elo that shows how dominant the player was. I think it is pretty good.
5:18 bro i joined this world while daut and chris were competing lmao
DAUT and viper in the same team Lord passing the baton to vipi then vipi and Hera in same team now vipi passing the baton to Hera so i think vinchester or sebastian are gonna be next in GL after a couple of years of Hera"s dominance
I follow and watch Vinch since 2015 since I speak Russian as well. Man he loves life too much to dedicate himself entirely to the game. 😊
@@questionsimposed man by vinch i meant a newcomer but personally i felt the best of em is vinch he on a good day can beat even viper and hera
@@sakshamkumawat4189 that's what I'm saying, he loves his real life more than aoe, that's why he won't be increasing training hours
Very interesting statistics and comments! Gives newer players and fans a bit of perspective
You said it yourself. The biggest argument why you are in fact the greatest player to ever touch this game. You are dominating in a much more competitive era.
I would put my money on today's Hera over any iteration of Daut or Viper through the ages. You are the one. Longetivity isn't as important when you aknowledge yourself there's two tournaments a year. You are the one.
Great video and very nice of you to support others in the community! Big like and he got my subscription to..
2:02 chunyu aka Yanzi. All these names brings back so many memories😢
the leyend of chris OMG
I think Viper is the current GOAT. Lord DauT very close behind. Hera next in line
Capoch volvió para enfrentarse a los nuevos monstruos del age
Hey Hera I'm hoping you might consider dropping a video on your thoughts about rams.
I played Aoe2 for years growing up and just recently got back into it (so I could whoop my brother 😂) and a tactic I enjoy, and have had some pretty good success with is immediately in castle age, building a few rams and filling them with infantry with arson (halbs if they're a cav civ especially) and just yoloing them accompanied usually with some cheap light cav or skirmishers straight for the centre of their settlement and then either 1) dropping the infantry out if cav attack me or 2) I drop a heap of infantry in the centre of his settlement and force him to either take my rams or my infantry. Either way I usually get a fair bit of bang for my buck.
Not a war winning strategy but definitely throws my opponent off whilst I'm either securing the map or building trebs or eco boosting etc. Is this a strategy that you would consider useful at top tier or not?
Sorry if you've already answered this question before 😅
1. Viper
2. Chris
3. Daut
It's insane that Hera only started playing in 2013! Makes me think I could have been on the same level. All I needed was more playtime. And actual talent. Damnit, I was so close!
Dream. Live. Achieve.
6:29 "Ruso... I don't think he was that a big of a name" oh Hera..!!
the chat siesta came out of nowhere with one sick timeline
Hera maybe find some old recs/ games over the years and do a set of long deep dive streams/ content related . Maybe set up a PC exclusively to run old HD and voobly recorded games .
I think it's fair that the tournament elo system is calculated by the matchup. Hera winning vs. Barles 3:2 is still a decent result for Barles because he took 2 games from Hera. But yeah it should take into account the tournament tiers, especially if it also counts showmatches and such.
My favorites are daut and yo. Pure macro and decisions making. Very slow but when in shape they can beat anybody on any day.
Such an amazing community.❤
I saw it a few days ago, I've never thought that DauT was so high ranked in 2004, I mean he looks old in comparison to all others (sorry DauT, if you read this 😅) it's the biggest surprise in this statistics
Could you maybe do a ranking video on tournaments?
I have to rewatch this video now because you’re watching it lol
Chris was crazy back then.i love his style
How do you describe it
I just want to point something out. In the end of the Video the Elo-difference between 1st and 2nd place is basically the same as 2nd and 15th
There's a good one about the best age of empires player ever. I can't remember the exact video, but it's great too
The ELO loss even if you win just happened in the Chess world Championship match, Gukesh won the match and is the new world champion but actually lost 7 elo points in the match 11
Viper was an incredible player but today we have to say welcome to the era of Hera!
Road to 3k tournament elo when?
Hera is the clear GoaT based on biggest gap between #1 and #2, but Viper is still the GoaT in terms of sheer dominance over a long stretch. Can't wait to check back in 2030 to see if Hera takes that crown :)
(Hera is my personal favorite and I always root for him in tourneys.)
Let's meet you guys in 2030 under this comment. Have a great time!
This early day tournament ELO is very skewed. Legion clan tourneys are being counted here and they were not open to public. Arbalet had them like every week and it was like a Daut, Chris Capoch run around. Also most of these were Arabia. BsK (Berserker Clan) kinda showed up and started doing really good tourneys where Grunt became top again. Daut lost to Grunt in a finals of one of these big tourneys. I dunno it’s been 20 years haha. I might be mixing shit up.
The big tournaments aren’t being counted high enough. HALEN (Japan) (_lyncher, _oN_Silva_) was the true number one player in the world for a while. His forward single stable tower rush was pure micro S-tier, which I think he beat Chris easily with in the finals of some huge tourney. Then he quit after winning all the majors and Chris started doing his 20 pop quick rush thing.
I think it would have been useful to put the players' nationality on the board, in order to prevent confusing different players with similar names. IamJoran and Jordan_23 are different players, for example. The German Jordan would have been like 10 back in the early 2000s, the other Jordan was Taiwanese or something. Similarly, Dream and Dreams aren't the same player, and neither are Fire and F1re.
Does anybody notice, Hera does not talk about TaToh at any point of video, Tatoh comes, he did not mention as he mention other player, even gave shoutout to MBL when he pops up twice, TaToh was consistently on top two, but Hera did not bother to mention any reference with him..
i think something is cooking between them. its my opinion.
I am saying this because I like tatoh gameplay and I only know few players from t90 videos. and I want them to have a shoutout, missed Tatoh.
14:45 i made a similar comment in the original video, and the sorely uneducated people in this community were trying to roast me for it.
Its nice to hear you echoing my sentiment, backed up by mathematical data.
No one talking about Ruso. He was an amazing innovative player. Hera has no idea how much potential Ruso had back in his time.
Ruso < RiuT would you agree
I'm interested to know more about Chris, who spent so long at #1, seemingly uncontested for the most part. What made him so good?
He was very innovative. I think he invented the 22 pop rush. Pretty sure he had something to do with popularizing the Aztec Drush too. He was creative and very smart.
FWIW, Chris wrote a book "Keys To 1vs1 Age of Empires 2: The Conquerors World Domination" about how to play Aoe2. It was released a long time ago and should be outdated,
The Hera Era
As for the method of rating: though I agree that tournament tier realistically matters when it comes to assessing someone's skill additionally to their win/loss results, I think having someone potentially lose Elo if they've won a tourney against someone is also fair. After all, even the ranked system scores per match, not per set of N matches. Wouldn't you expect a 3k Elo player to have fewer points after winning 3, but losing 2 games to someone with 2k Elo?
I think this is fine in a format where every game matters. In chess, so long as you play an even number of games between black and white, no particular game is more important than any other and there is no advantage to be had by sacking games. AoE2 there is a potential counter argument because of the draft, map pick and best of X formats.
I'm not saying it is a bad rating system, but I do believe it is less accurate than it would be in a game like chess.
@@beaky8138 Maybe the rating-per-match argument is not that good, but, looking at it another way, I would definitely expect someone like Viper to beat a 2k player at least 5 to 1, but more likely 5 to 0, right? If I suddenly see Viper winning 5 to 4, I would consider either Viper's skill to have diminished or the 2k player to have caught up in an impressive way.
Grunt basically dominated Aoe3 till 2009, then he had a brief return and after that military service and never returned, thats why he dropped out so drastically in 2006, because Aoe3 was released in late 2005. Played against him couple of times in Aoe3, he was a insane with Portoguese, when nearly everyone played natives. Also not saving games and non recording was very common back then, to avoid leakage of strategys. i Remember playing againast a guy called meisterstrage21(i think), dude was basically aoe3's dagao, playing the same shit every game.
Maybe a hot take but I feel like Viper is the Bobby Fisher of AoE2 and Hera is the Magnus Carlsen. Both GOAT's in their own right, but Hera is proving to be more methodical. Viper f**ks around and has fun a lot and it hurts his tourney consistency.
Dude, you had Kasparov right there for Viper
Tell me you're new to the scene without telling me you're new to the scene
Hera isn't even in the GOAT conversation. He needs to sustain his dominance for at least a few more years before that is even a reasonable consideration for him over Viper and Daut.
BROOOOO
You like, glossed over the most important part of the video - the tally of how many days who were top 15
Yeah. Where we can compare the amount of days DauT have been top15 vs days that Liereyy have been alive 😊
As a brazilian, I miss seeing Riut competing on the top level. I hope I see another Brazilian rise to this level again.
True. True.
Funny, just watched that a few days ago.
13:53 Cat!!!
Riut ❤❤❤❤
Oh man he was so entertaining
It's cute how hera said viper is the goat and daut is number 2, it won't be long until everyone puts you at one undoubtedly:3
I think what you forget is how long viper was number 1. Age catches up and injuries to.
@jtaylor3609 i don't see why wouldn't you think hera can do it for as long too, he's very much ahead of his competitors for now
00:05 is your cat a yeller or does your editor randomly add audios of her? 11
The viper made so many people fans of aoe. Forever my goat but hera is easily the best rn
Dude you should be so proud ;-;
I recently watched your wololo finals and the way you played was absolutely pristine. And the games were amazing...
4:23 swj_windy_ greatest waller back in the day 11
I must have missed something, Project Belgium was in the top 15 in 2023 ????
I played aoe2 for the first time during COVID. it’s crazy how much the game has grown in such a short time
So technically Hera didn’t hit the 3k elo?! ☠️☠️☠️
This is a different ELO based on tournaments only.
WAIT. Fanjita was in the top 15!? The bf player from UK????
The one and only
Accm top 1 during covid time 😂 . At that time, all most every vietnamese sitting at home didnt do anything. I think he do alot of rank game
Dante was a top US player
GOAT!
13:32 its not gonna be a solid number 2 😂
If these stats are from aoe-elo, Bo21's wouldn't be counted.
grunt is the best AOE2 player ever
13:53 Meow
Will god phosphoru get to the top 15 some day? I hope so.
Something important about this video: it's wrong, at least in one area.
Chris hit 2.6k back in the days of the Zone. I remember it because he was the first player to do it. It was a big deal.
But this video doesn't reflect that. I'm not sure why, but Koven, Daut, Grunt, Chris, and several others... these guys rating were definitely higher than 2/2.1k.
U are thinking ladder elo, this is tournament elo
Where's the legend HOANG????????
Where's the legend HOANG????????????
1st
That's not Jordan btw :)