How to Play OVERTONES on Saxophone for a better SOUND
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- #bettersax #saxophone #saxophonelessons
Jay Metcalf explains how to play and practice overtones on the saxophone and why practicing overtones helps improve your saxophone sound.
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“You’ll get there faster by going slower” is an incredibly insightful quote. definitely something i need to work on in my playing. thank you!!
if you can play it slowly, you can play it quickly.. if you know, you know.
@@caydenheddleston4810 I know, and I wish I didn't
My jazz teacher loves to say:
“Hurry up and wait!”
@@caydenheddleston4810 I N T E R E S T I N G
You’re such a good teacher Jay, I will start to work on this tomorrow. It’s already night here and I can’t disturb my neighbors anymore as I’ve competed my practice for today already. Thanks for this video.
Agreed about holding notes; it's part of the raga music ear training for correct pitch. Those teachers have you hold a note while having a drone instrument (such as tambura or a recording of one) as background so that you can hear any 'beats' indicating a discrepancy in pitch. Good practice for the ear. And, as you state, proper breathing, throat, embouchure are important as well. Thanks!
Fabulous advice, thankyou!
I play tenor sax and am in the jazz band. I am In 9th grade and most of the people in there are 11th and 12th so right now I need to have a better sound even though mine is pretty nice. This helps a lot and thanks, I would also appreciate if you told me how I could get a better jazz sound and style.
You truly are the best really hope to meet u someday
In beginning band, my octave key somehow was broken a few weeks before our Christmas concert. My parents didn't have the money to send my sax to the shop, so I ended up just the fingering the notes and jumping the octave entirely using overtones. Of course, at the time, I had no idea what that was or what I was doing, I just figured out that I could do it if I tried. All that being said, it was beginning band in 6th grade, so the only notes we were playing using the octave key were D and E and maybe an occasional F#.
Hey Jay Happy Holidays! I'm going to try to figure out La COO CA Rocha, I know I killed the spelling, I think that's what you were playing in overtones.I'm blissfully copying your OH SO TASTY BLUES LICKS from the Blues Course. Funny thing days can go by practicing your lessons than you remind us of something else to add to our program! By the way I really think the greenery perked up your practice space behind you, it's looking way more cozy now!! Still waiting for the posters and Fido!! Peace and Love to you and all!!!
Thanks Wayne!
Thank you.
Jay! Great video among great videos in your collection. Long time player; self taught, trained on trumpet, switched to sax 20+ years ago. So, needless to say, pure talent got me so far. Now the hard work to get to the next level. Question on overtones. I play Tenor, alto, and soprano (mostly alto). Do I need to practice overtones on each equally? In other words, I'm assuming the overtones exercise is a generic exercise and not horn specific, although it does help to hear the overtones on the other horns. Just wondering if I need to make sure I'm touching all the horns and doing them. You know how it is...some days, weeks, months you're just in an alto mood, or a tenor mood, etc...so, the other horns don't get played as much. Is that fine as long as you're doing them on the horn you're playing at that time? Thanks again! I'm loving Cannonball Adderley!
No - below - it's not a Kohlert. Fabulous presentation Jay.
Hi Jay,
I have a Better Sax membership account, but am having problems in sending messages from my log-in account although I've tried several times - do you know if there's any technical issues for this? The message that comes up says: 'Please add content to message' which I've done but with no luck. Thanks in advance.
When I try the low low B flat (the one using pinkie I don’t know the proper term) overtones, I actually find middle F, middle B flat and even the high F are way easier to come out than low B flat. But if I play higher notes say low E overtones, the easiest one is middle E. Should I first focus on the easiest one or try to get the first overtone? I actually have never get the low B flat even though I can reliably get middle F now. Am I doing something wrong?
have you tried watching Jay’s low note video?
In effect, over tone playing is like converting a saxophone into a chromatic bugel! ???
Chromatic bugle... nice.
The REAL reason to practice overtones:
La Cucaracha
haha
or you know, for leo p and his moanin' solo
brasshouse
FYI: John Coltrane had a "Practice" Sax where he bent the octave so that it was NOT Operational. Therefore, he used it to practice the horn from low to high without the use of an octave key.
Nice
Two pieces of tape could do the same thing. :)
@@paulelkouss also a pencil
@@paulelkouss no! Not extreme enough
So a overtone is not using the octave key from going high or low? Sorry i didnt know for ages watching the vid what it was🤦🏽♀️
The snag is that when neighbo(u)rs hear you trying out overtones they might think "Huh..This guy ain't as good as I thought he was!"
🤣😂🤣😂😂 so true
That’s why you do them at the BEGINNING, and save the good stuff for the end!
I was just practising and started to play overtones when you posted this, good timing. This was helpful, especially with singing the notes and changing throat shape thanks!
great!
@@bettersax A revelation here was Jay's advice to sing the projected overtone and feel what the throat does. I had been hoping for the best with random changes of the variables, so when an overtone occasionally arrived I couldn't pin down why!
[ I saw a video entitled Better Sex and thought it was word play on your Better Sax.]
I agree this video is really helpful
The thing with Jay is they don't make them more honest than him. I mean really is giving here for free the essential information you need to achieve what you want. The courses are even more worth it as it helps you along with the discipline, the accompaniment and the motivation. This guy is the real thing, straight to the point, no interminable blabla and not boring to death. Thumbs up for Jay.
Thanks for that. Made my day.
Ray u did demo on cheap esatar sax from Amazon and what do u think of swapping out mouthpiece and for Yamaha 4c mouth piece? I thn aandoren al3 or go right to al3????
This is so cool I’ve been playing sax on and off for 7 years (a lot more off than on lol) and I had no idea this was even a thing and I am mainly a trumpet player and it translated over rlly well and I can already instantly play 4 octaves but I’ll keep working on it
Now I know how that one guy in my school went so high on his alto solos lol
This is great to know. I play alto but I would also love to play trumpet someday. Nice that some skills transfer over.
So have you found that you can use the same technique to play overtones on the trumpet?
I am a trombone player who has been advised by a sax player to try overtone playing, but I’m finding it hard to find information for brass instruments on the Internet..
@@michellejacob5190 you can't be serious
Teaching a class on Overtones today, love the way you go about it! Hope to connect again soon!
Thank you brother. Yes let’s do another podcast episode with you.
Yeah - my warmup pre-gig is always overtones. When they're right I can get on with the main job of the day with a degree of confidence.
On bari it's vital.
I was a ten year student of Joe Allard . He is the "father" of teaching overtones. I use this on Clarinet, tenor sax and flute, all of which was taught to me by Mr. Allard. He had the most beautiful sound on tenor & alto sax and clarinet. He used the overtones exercises to correct problems with embrochures, adjusting the glottal opening, and just improving sound. When I was a senior in high school I asked him for more technical finger work; his reply was if you don't sound good no one will stick around to find out how fast you can move your fingers. Needless to say, I use overtone work with all my students. The video of him on You Tube was done when he was suffering from Alzheimer disease. When I studied with him in the 1960's and 70's he was sharp as a tack, and would not have needed the coaching evident in the video. However, for us who studied with him the video is our chance to visit with the master once more.
Thanks Doc for sharing this story.
Very nice Story Thanks for sharing . I,am very interested in that Video! Can you give the link here. I don’t find it on you tube Thanks 🙏
Awesome. Great advice from the master.
Dr Vincent Rufino
What a nice comment and tribute to your earlier mentor and how rewarding to be able to do the same for your own students. Let us hope that you are as fondly remembered by them and that they in turn, carry forward the Allard-Rufino torch.
I struggle with my meagre steps to stand on the shoulders of my personal giants.
My speciality is beginners who don't believe that they will ever play anything! Eventually I pass them on to the next level. (And sometimes think "Can I come with you?")
Nevertheless, I've gigged all over UK, EU and once into US.
Joe Allard sat in with my sax quartet when I was in high school in the late 70's. He seemed very old but what came out of the soprano sax was magnificent. He had the biggest beautiful sound and he was playing on our regular soprano players set up! Obviously it left a lasting impression on me.
Man, you're teaching an old, old dog new tricks. Thank you.
One of the best guides I’ve seen. Gotten more consistency with overtones.
Great stuff. My overtones sound pretty rough but six weeks ago I found them impossible and a month ago they were bloody awful; I'm pleased with pretty rough right now.
Craziest thing I was practicing a song and went down to C so released the octave key, when I went back up I forgot to use the octave key but hit the notes just fine and didn't realize it till I went back down and went to release the octave that I wasn't holding. When I tried to intentionally go back and hit those same notes - I couldn't do it
Brass players: "Is this some kind of woodwind joke?"
So…this overtone business is not crystal clear to. But I am understanding that you press the low Bb keys…then keeping all the Bb fingering, you switch to a middle Bb with just your throat sound? Or do you press middle Bb keys? I’m just not sure what exactly to do. I thought overtones was basically playing a low note and playing that same note consecutively in the next octaves. Please help with my understanding what I should be doing. Thanks!
Thanks Jay! Very helpful -- answering the questions I had after watching your clip on altissimo.
I’m hitting the 2nd overtone pretty consistently but for some reason I keep missing the first one, anybody have any tips on how I can find that tricky first overtone?
Thank you for another great video, Jay. About singing the notes before playing (which is really helpful!): since we'll be out of singing range pretty quickly as we progress upward, do you have any advice as to how to deal with that? E.g. would it be enough to imagine/'hear' the note before playing and letting the body adjust accordingly?
You will have to use your head and falsetto voice if you want to sing those notes. Once you get the hang of overtones, and know the sequence of notes, you won't need to sing them anymore as you will hear them in your head.
40-year player and yeah, I need to do this more for sure. Great channel Jay.
Thanks Tony!
Great video and tips as usual ! I tend to work on overtones as a separate part of practicing, avoiding the term warm ups for them as I feel they are too important and need to be treated separately and more than just a couple of minutes. Coupled with mouthpiece only exercises they are the two factors that took my sound and confidence in playing to the next level.
I sometimes feel a lot of learning players tend to hang out in the middle of the horn because they don't have great control and confidence in the lower and upper registers. We don't have a lot of octaves to play with, in the first instance so it's good to be confident through out the range of the sax. Overtones will get you there. Once you get the hang of them they don't have to sound too awful. With regular practice you can be super creative with them. I found getting the 3rd B flat was a bit tricky at first and started sounding the note with normal fingering minus the octave key. that helped it sound in my ear and showed my throat what it should be doing. I was then able to revert back to the low B flat fingering and sound it from there. Overtones..they work !
Another good comment!
As someone else better qualified than me mentioned here Joe Allard knew a thing or two even if his methods have been modified somewhat over the years, his insistance on overtones and everything that comes from them really stand up. Hope your students follow your advice. For those that worry about the neighbours give it a month, 10 to 20 mins a day and they'll be knocking on the door asking 'what happened ? You sound really good these days
"@@bettersax
@@thecontinentalist8816: Do you work much on the overtones of other bell notes and C# and D or do those overtones come easily once you can play the Bb overtones to a good standard?
Yes definitely Graham. If you can get up to the 3rd B flat then you're already doing good and you'll move on rapidly from there. Tone matching really helps make the tone stable ( and easier for the neighbours in the long run) So once you've got a few of the overtones down try matching them with the normal fingerings with the aim being to match the tone of the overtone. I think that helps to build the muscle memory in the mouth and throat so when you play normal fingerings you'll have a bigger tone, not necessarily louder just bigger with more control. Jay did the right thing in getting the ball rolling with this, but for him too cover all the complexities of the overtone series would be a lot of video time for him. Maybe later. I wouldn't want to steal his thunder on this subject but enjoy sharing my experiences on the subject. Slurring down through the overtone range to the low fingerings is a great thing to do. There you really feel the throat doing it's work. At the base of this ( in my experience ) is good air support. It all starts with that. If you can find writings by Dr David Dempsey, another Joe Allard student back in the day you'll find a mine of info on this and other subjects. Good luck with it.
Excellent! I can see this is how mastering the instrument happens. Great, clear vid.
Another great video Jay, thanks for sharing your expertise. I definitely need to spend more time consistently focused on overtones. One more thing to add to the list of goals for 2019. I really appreciate your videos as they are super helpful. Your teaching style is very sincere and informative. Please keep them coming, cheers!
Thanks. The key is to hit the overtones for 5 minutes a day. They take time to work their magic.
Better Sax g
OMG! You are so right. Thank you for this lesson!
You're welcome!
Jay, this just in... the neighbors wanted me to tell you that they aren't happy about the long tones either. ;-) Are the Better Sax hats available?
Whenever I do it, it doesn't go an octave higher, it just goes in-between the low note and the high note, is that weird?
You should probably get your sax checked I had a few problems with mine but now the lowest to the top altissimo note comes out smoothly and clear and the octaves react properly, this also could be an embouchure problem.
Top tones for the saxophone by Sigurd Rascher. Best book ever for overtones. Very sequential and does the necessary ear training. I spent about six months working out of this book. Cheap book.
What is your name? Is it a secret? I'm tired of recommending you and not being able to tell people your name. I'm still referring to you as "The Better Sax Guy."
Jay Metcalf
Great info.
I find it really important to work on this exercise. the book Top Tons for sax really helped me!
Do you all know it?
I remember when I first started eating vegetables, I would ask myself "Why on Earth am I eating this?"
The difference between overtones or harmonics on a sax compared with this angelic harmonic sound on a guitar is that the guitar is microscopically in tune....
Sax harmonics vary from hmm "acceptable" to "In Tune" at different points on the instrument.
Sooo thaaaaats what overtones are; I would constantly go from a low g to a high g without the octave key just for fun
Another cool lesson 👍🎷
What sax are you playing ?
Yanagisawa TWO2
Literally I’ve been practicing them for a month with the best teacher in the state, legitimately. As soon as you mentioned using your voice and singing and visualizing the threat closing off like that, I got it so naturally. THANKS SO MUCH!!!
Great video Jay!
I have a question though
Is it ok for me to "change" the shape of my throat while also moving my tongue closer to the roof of my mouth? Or should my tongue always remain in the bottom of my mouth?
Thanks in advance!
I’m mainly a trumpet player so I don’t know exactly but I’d say the throat is bad but the tongue could be ok bc resistance is necessary to go up (however resistance through the abs is probably better than the tongue)
This is just coming from experience as a lead trumpet tho, idk what I’m talking about but maybe it’s helpful to some degree
Tongue arches up and back like on French horn
if it works and you don't feel stress or unusual pain it should be fine
So, I just need to install a tenor sax into a classic car for LA CUCARACHA.
I changed mouthpiece from Yamaha 7 c to Otto Link 5*. With Yamaha was piece of cake almost all the overtones. With OL I’m suffering big time! The first 3 comes out regularly but the 4th almost never.
With regard to the shape of your throat and not moving your face, I find when I sing the note of the third octave up as well as my throat changing, I do move my cheeks a bit as a smile; should this still be avoided when trying to play, and the actual movements for singing are not related?
Singing is greatly improved my practice! I discovered it intuitively and I do humming of Bb not with tonal energy app!
Hahaha I’ve been practicing overtones without knowing I was playing overtones I was doing it for fun lol
Thank you Jay for your excellent teaching. THis video should be watched many times to get it all to soak in. I will too!
definitely. This is an advanced concept and really takes years of work before it all makes sense...
I love that cover photo Jay 😂 are you looking for the overtones? And by the way I had no idea you can play the overtones in all four octaves. Looks like I have more work to do.
I do not understand what an overtone is, I don't even hear the difference as you play, how could you explain differently? I really like your instruction.... And thank you.
I am not convinced of the practicality of playing so called overtones. I've never heard of this before TH-cam. To me, it might create bad habits when low notes are hard enough to get out in the first place. I'm really afraid of creating bad habits.
I am ok with overtones and altissimo notes but only with my metal mouthpieces such as amati, dm sharkbite n7 and a chinese metal mouthpiece. I cant controled the altissimo with my selmer c* and with my selmer c80 hard rubber mouthpiece... Is the mouthpiece that helps the altissimo or is my embouchure???? With metal mouthpiece I am playing with 2,5 or 3 strong vandore java reed with selmers mouthpieces I am playing almost with every reed that dont fit me in metal mouthpice.
My first 11 lessons with Joe Allard were exclusively about OVERTONES. I’ve come back to it almost 40 years later, and it’s been worth every moment…….of course back then I had no perspective as compared to now, but while at the Village Vanguard listening/watching Dexter Gordon in December 1979 Dexter gave me a lifetime of incomparable learning.
my problem is my sax will always skip the octave Bb overtone and go straight to the F. what should i do to fix this?
When playing low Bb can’t you just press the octave key to get middle Bb out?
I've played sax for 35 years and have never heard the term 'over tone' even though I've made the sounds.
A great resource for overtones and altissimo is "top tones for the saxophone" by Sigurd M Rascher
I was practicing this for the first time today and I was going Bb3 to F5 any more tips lol. I just really can’t get it.
In alto sax. If we press which keys, the octave crook key does not go up?
Hi is good sax yani TO1W I want buy one or trevor james signature custom what is the best
You are a great teacher i like the way you teach
I like the way you explaining is great one.Thank you a lot
Hi Jay, any lessons just for overtones pkease? Link ? Tgank you.
Such an interesting topic! I never knew there was so much going on regarding the mechanics of achieving certain pitches/tones... I always thought it was just air flow and key presses 🤯😅
Really good interpretation of the subject Jay!!!!
Is it just me or does anyone else not place their top teeth on the sax I just cover my upper Getty with my lips and I play better than anyone else in my class
Hi Jay: I seem to be stuck on the first octave overtone going up the scale from low Bb to about E. I just can't seem to get above that first octave. I have tried reshaping my embouchere, my throat and my tongue. I am really getting discouraged. I have only had 4 lessons on the sax from a one on one teacher, but the virus put a stop to that. I have been playing since about mid March, which
was my very first experience with the saxophone. I can play a bunch of songs and can generally get a week E and F out with the octave key pressed. Above that--nope! I practice at least an hour everyday since I started in March but have pretty much been working on my own and looking at videos such as yours. I know I started late in life, I was 82 on July 4th, but I am in very good shape for my age. I can hold a note for quite a long time so have plenty of air. I have practiced long tones often but overtones, not so much. Probably because I get discouraged in not being able to get more than a single octave overtone on each note from Bb to E. I have tried 3 mouthpieces and both #2 caine and Legere plastic reeds. the Legere's seem to be the best for me. I have a Selmer TS500S tenor saxophone which I bought new. I had a sax tech look it over and he made some adjustments but stated that it was an excellent and well made sax. By the way, I love your videos!
You're post is very inspiring to me. I began learning sax 2 months ago and am also 😣persevering with overtones 💥 ... practice practice practice 😀😄😊
I just found this video and precisely I was trying to improve my sound with the overtune. Jay, thanks so much because you avoid me to get bad habit. Thanks so much.
glad i stuck around thanks
While I was trying this I got a low Bb, middle Bb, High Bb, and high F
Hi Mat, explain to me how can I undestand that my reed is useless ???
Is there anything that can be done when I am able to play the second and third harmonics but not the first? I always gravitate very quickly to the second and am unable to play the octave overtone at all.
Thank you, sir, Jay Metcalf for your videos on how to be a better saxophone player
I gotta alto Bush or silver low tones and the sea note is not playing at pitch you have any idea what I need to look at
Hi um when I play I hear a full water noise and not sure how to erase that noise when I play
Muchas Gracias!!! Saludos desde Argentina!!!
I swear every sax player has a a short trimmed beard and a thick ass neck😂
What's the point of this? If the octave key also raises an octave?
Hi Jay, you may want to fix your mouthpiece patch on 5:44 :)
Wow. Newbie here. I spent decades playing brass where overtones are just how you play a lot of notes (there are only 7 different fingerings on a 3 valve horn). I had no idea reed instruments could do this - or that one should even try....
Or 8?I think of it as binary:
000 001 010 011 100 101 110 111
Anyone know if this works on brass instruments? (Especially trombone?)
Yes it does - it's the same principle as bugle calls. Try bugle calls; they're fun.
Is there anything like this for trumpet players?
This is true and all but did you hear King Crimson?
I I keep playing low, be flat, but then I get F5
Question: Should I be working to get the overtones in perfect pitch? For example, fingering low B Flat, and blowing a F 2nd partial, I'm a bit sharp (according to Tonal Energy), when I try to drop the pitch, I end up dropping all the way down to the B flat 1st partial. I'm guessing the answer is yes, and I just have more foundational work to do.
No. Most Overtones are naturally out of tune. Don't try to play all overtones in tune just the fundamental.
The overtones tend to go sharper and sharper as you go higher . However, my teacher told me that as your ear gets better your tuning of the overtones get better. But just the exercise it’ll all resolve itself out.
Learn about equal temperament
Excellent. You teach at least as well as anyone on any subject.
SPEAKING OF Bb, Jay, do you have a stand on which of the five fingerings (that I know of) to use for Bb and when? (Make that six if I count the overtone fingering!)
John, that's a good topic for a video. the rule of thumb is to use side Bb when you have to go to B natural, and use bis Bb for everything else. 1 and 1 Bb is not useful to me on sax.
Thanks, Jay.@@bettersax I came to the sax from the flute so I've been inclined to use the 1 & 1 fingering for everything. But since starting on your courses I've been working on using side Bb. I need to work on the bis key even more--I don't trust getting on & off it as needed.
1and1 is actually useful for a a# - h thrill
Okay, don't get me wrong: I absolutely know that I'm far, far from playing or even practicing overtones, but...
Beyond long tones and scales up and down and rythm with the metronome and also some first (limited notes) improvisation playing,
I want to get closer in touch with my instrument. In every practice session I allow me 2-3 times a minute (or so) to freak out and drive crazy. Make NOISE, try crazy things, produce shrill and ugly tones! Being as much out of tune and beat as possible. That helps me concentrating for the next scales of 25s and 30s long tones with the tuner.
I've found that I can hold B-flat somewhere "in limbo" between the natural- and the overtone. Sounds terrible (*), but precise holding the tone "in between" by focus to a specific parameter (air pressure, embouchure, throat or tongue) seems to be not a bad excercise to develop the precision of the choosed parameter, because it's really hard to control. by slightly variate the diaphragma pressure I can even hold the tone more in the upper or more in the lower octave, (but still terrible *) and I can also switch nice controlled between the octaves. So, yes - somehow I practice overtones already... Maybe a minute (or so) of my daily 60 - 75min practice. ;)
(* it's not so terrible to my ear. I had a real good voice before it broke in my puberty (Annie Lennox was my favorite Voice in the 80's) and I can still sing or hum a few tones with overtones. I love that overtone interference-patterns. Also the interferences that comes when when I play the B-Flat "over-loud ", sounding like a ship-horn. I'm gaining control of the the interferences tempo. That's more experimenting with physics than playing the Saxophone, but: isn't playing the Sax exercising physics as well?)
Hey jay, question for ya. When i play my middle D, it comes out as a high A when i dont want it to. How do i prevent the overtone from happening? Doesnt do it for any other notes except for middle D
Varsent Z I used to have this problem like 2 years ago.. it’s probably ur reed, or mouth shape
I also used to have this problem. Use less reed in your mouth and practice practice practice
Kids in my beginner band sure are good at this
You are an excellent teacher, IMHO. TY!
First
So yeah, playing bugle calls (bugles have no keys) in trumpet we do this in practice all the time. It's pretty cool.
I've actually seen a saxophone with no keys, made just to teach this. A local music store had it for sale.
Then the neighbours come pounding on my door🤣