Has a school boy i did a project about farm machine,s and JCB sent more items and info than any other company and i have always remembered that with GREAT RESPECT and admiration for JCB.
YEP - this is what the UK should be doing - leading the way on the tech the world needs for the next 50 years. Not giving out oil and gas licences and hanging onto 100 year old technology
As a Scot 🏴I am very proud of the British company 🇬🇧JCB racing ahead with the development of Hydrogen engines. Good job we have loads of windfarms and lots of water in Scotland,to create loads of green hydrogen,for British construction equipment!!😀
3:30 Very interesting comment there by Lord Bamford stating that owners would be able to work on repairing the engines just like shop mechanics can, I find that very positive in light of how companies like John Deer go all out to prevent owners from even touching the motor etc.
Well done JCB, and not just some CEO, but the boss himself, that to me says a great deal, he's delighted to show what his team have done, congratulations JCB. Harry as a farmer's son, and an estate manager, I wondered how we would get the grass cut, battery power is just to heavy, I like this system. Thank you for taking the time to show us our future
Yes. It must be mandatory viewing to show politicians how old established companies stuck in the past are just going up a blind alley. JCB is screwed if they do not change course.
I hope it works. How much will it cost to keep full with hydrogen though? Petrol and diesel have had a century to mature. Other technologies won't be given as long before being ditched
Excellent video, I’ve wanted to know about hydrogen fueling for years now, I’m also a farmer and could just not see how I could operate on battery powered tractors, excavators, pumps ect. I’m impressed and now have a more positive outlook for the future of agriculture and pastural businesses, especially here in Queensland , Australia where we have huge tracts of land that need to worked efficiently to produce food for the world market. Go JCB.
Stay away from hydrogen fueled equipment. The hydrogen is the problem. You can never get around that it is hydrogen. Hydrogen is an explosive... If you don't understand,,put a match on a car battery with the cap off.🤨 It only takes a tiny little bit.💥
Well, you won't operate any better on H2 than on battery; get your checkbook out because it's going to cost you a lot more to do the same work you did with diesel!!
The aim of the banksters is to bankrupt the farmer corporates and seize the land and businesses... And frankly the farmers are playing into their hands as are the corporates......
you have a very limited imagination if you cannot see how you could operate on battery powered tractors etc. I can assure you that if you actually see a hydrogen powered tractor thew operating costs will shock you. Batteries are the way ahead.
For Africa this is a game changer. JCB through their Raze H2 business (Jo Bamford's business) have a deal with an Aussie firm, Fortescue to establish a supply of friendly Hydrogen (as green as possible). With renewable energy costs falling daily means the costs of H2 production is falling rapidly.
Thanks Harry, a really interesting video. Hats off to JCB for the progress they've made towards hydrogen powered heavy duty vehicles. Also, credit to the company for maintaining their factories in Britain as well as opening up abroad.
Excellent video, Hopefully the people who have not Managed to get it working are Watching this !!!!!, Brilliant Engineering form Jcb And the most comprehensive information so far with the Refuelling Shown, This is the most important game changer in modern history, Hopefully Jcb will work with the Australian mining company who have managed to use Diesel and Hydrogen in the combustion chamber with 85% Less Emissions, and Should be Able to be used as a After market Bolt on Kit ,Thanks Sir Anthony Bamford for placing British Products Again Ahead of the competition Amazing progress in a Few years Development, This Technology Should keep my 1963 Jcb 3c Running for the next 60 years 🤣👍
Great video Harry - so good to see this great solution for these types of big heavy hardworking machines. Thank goodness JCB have poured money into this & developed it given the lack of interest & support from UK Gov.
@@rogerphelps9939 Industrial hydrogen use is at 350 bar which makes it easier to work with than for cars where it is 700 bar plus and often liquid does not take up the same room as gas. JCB have obviously considered the supply side, which for industry is different to domestic. If you want a green fuel for your car get a diesel and use bio fuel (ie cooking oil)
Toasted in an hydrogen powered toaster? JCB provide mainly industrial plant and it seems to me they have included the Hydrogen supply chain in their calculations. Farmers being more intermittent in their use of power will no doubt use a mixture of electricity and hydrogen. We have been here before; horses to steam, steam to liquid fuel IC. The world did not end then, so why now?@@rogerphelps9939
Harry thank you this was fascinating and enlightening. Coming from the haulage background I have long had an inkling that flogging away at batteries for our needs just won't do it for a vast spread of road haulage operations. So I am surprised the major truck manufacturers have not started this push towards Internal Combustion Hydrogen. I think Hydrogen makes people think of fuel cells and thus it becomes very misunderstood. JCB make what they have gone for look easy! Interesting times ahead, keep up the great work on documenting this stuff
Thank you so much for showing us this. Great to see some companies going down this route, electricity & battery technology isn't the answer to everything. I hope JCB prosper developing this tech.
@rogerphelps9939 I guess you will always find haters of hydrogen tech as you will with electric. As a former farmer, I find the diesel engine very hard to beat. Hydrogen has to be seriously considered if we aren't going to be able to use diesel in the future. Why not upload a video and explain your reasoning.
@@Banditmanuk Plenty of eco alternatives to diesel fuel that will power regular diesel vehicles and some of the newer diesel engines are the cleanest on the planet so why the change ?
The future lies in a mix of technologies. No one technology or solution fits all applications.... automotive, agriculture, mass transit, aviation etc. This solution would appear to suit the agriculture application well (unlike battery electric) but the main issue is that you don't just dig a hole in the ground and suck up hydrogen, it's massively energy intensive to produce. So the environmental credentials of each technology/solution is still a challenging problem, just like other technologies. Very interesting though.
Who says that hydrogen ICEs are superior to battery electric? The hydrogen infrastructure is not there and they can't even make it work for cars plus the fact that running costs are very high. Just about every farm is connected to the electricity grid and tractors are very rarely in use all night. JCB are backing the wrong horse.
@@rogerphelps9939 Hi Roger. If it can work for large formerly diesel machinery, how come it won't work for cars? I've talked to mechanics who have converted their petrol cars to hydrogen as a hobby project and with an onboard water electrolysis unit! The car made its own hydrogen and powered the car no problem.
@@nephos100 It is not that hydrogen 'can not work', but it is not any good, practical. There were hydrogen filling stations set up in several countries including the UK by Shell, they have closed them, another country recently. The only hydrogen that would or will be acceptable is that made from electricity, cleanly. It delivers about a third of the power needed to create it. 4th largest iron ore producer Fortescue tried out big equipment in both Hydrogen and electric power versions and have dumped hydrogen as electric was so much better. th-cam.com/video/j7n7qk3NY0k/w-d-xo.html covered at about 2;30 in on that.
People used to joke 'hydrogen is the fuel of tomorrow... and it always will be.' It looks like tomorrow is finally arriving - well done Lord Bamford and JCB! Politicians can decide what they like but it will always be real world innovators who shape the future. Great video Harry, exciting times.
Great video Harry! I had the chance to spend a week at the JCB test site quarry last summer for work experience and got to try out the hydrogen machines. It's really amazing how much technology has progressed with these engines. I think 2023 is going to be a really exciting year for more developments!
@@Skynet4444 What happens to the shit on your pants? Does the self cleaning feature require more energy to clean than the energy input. Shit stain :Force = Mass x Velocity squared divided by area affected.
You have to remember that Green Hydrogen is not a source of energy, unlike the grey Hydrogen that is currently used by JCB. Green Hydrogen is just a means of storing energy just like a battery. You start with electrical energy, throw away 25% of it to convert water to Hydrogren, then throw away 10% to compress it, throw more away transporting it on a tanker to a filling station. Throw more of it away to compress it in to the to the vehicles tanks. Finally if using an internal combustion engine throw 50% of it away as waste heat. Probably the energy losses could be justified for some applications (like aviation) but the infrastructure to distribute it is more of a problem. We can't put more than 10% hydrogen in to our current gas network because it will embrittle the plastic pipes. I can't see the country being able to afford to double up our gas network with a hydrogen network even if we just connect filling stations. This is because Hydrogen is really difficult to pipe because it leaks out through conventional gas joints and you can't use conventional plastic pipes which would make a hydrogen pipe network more than double the cost of an CNG network. As a result it is always going to have to be transported by tanker. However Hydrogen compressed to very high 700bar takes up 6 times the amount of volume for the same energy as petrol and liquifying it which takes a lot of energy only reduces this to 4 times the volume. Consequently you are going to need 6x the number of fuel tankers to transport it. Although I would love Hydrogen to be a competitor to battery technology I just can't see it happening on a wide scale.
Absolutely fantastic brake down of it all buddy 👌 they have also forgot to mention the massive fire and explosion effects if these goes up In fire 🔥..to me it would make more sense to have a technology that extracts the carbon from the diesel before it even gets to the farm ..as the saying goes you can’t get more out than you put in .. it’s all about balance
Unfortunately using this grey hydrogen release’s more CO2 than burning the CH4 in the engine directly. To produce 1kg of hydrogen by electrolysis requires 50 kWh of electricity and 9 litres of water. That over 9 pounds just for the electricity alone. Then it still needs to be compressed and transported. One pound per kg is not going to happen.😢
@@jonnybloggs6790 they also forgot to mention the fire and explosion possibilities with battery vehicles , it doesn't take much to find a video showing what happens when one of those " green " solutions goes wrong
@@kawasakikev8905 Any source of concentrated energy has a fire/ explosion risk. Why are you equating only green solutions having this happen? They aren't portrayed as being any safer. Never seen an old fashioned petroleum fuelled vehicle on fire?
sadly not. hydrogen is a dead end as it requires massive amounts of electricity to make it. there are 3 grades of hydrogen Green blue and brown, the green is as you would expect enviromentally friendly. but the brown and blue come with massive Co2 creation. The brown is made directly from coal
It's grossly more efficient to use the electricity to charge a battery than to produce hydrogen. You need on the order of 5-10x as much electricity to produce the requisite amount of hydrogen, as you would if you'd just charged a battery and used an electric motor. I work with hydrogen in aviation. It has a small number of niche use cases. But it is not viable for cars, heating, and frankly I highly doubt the cost per kWh for agriculture will ever allow this to be adopted by farmers.
@@Daniel-S1 if you had taken the time to read my comments you will see that I clearly state that there are 3 types of hydrogen , green, blue and brown. What you are talking about here is termed green hydrogen. unfortunately it is the least produced version accounting for less than 5% as it is the most expensive of the methords
@@jukeseyableIf you had taken the time to do some proper research you would know that there are many more colours of H2. Pink (nuclear) Grey (Nat. Gas) Black (coal) Brown (Lignite) Blue (Nat. Gas with CCS ie a con job) Green (electrolysis via renewable energy) and even turquoise, yellow and white. Take your pick lol
Great to see, I remember watching your previous visit to JCB and it is great to see how far they have progressed their development, at least one British manufacturer who gets on with it ! Obviously the fly in the ointment is the production of green hydrogen but I'm totally in agreement with you, the end result will be a 'mixed' solution rather than one size fits all. I have always thought that the emphasis on electric cars which costs ridiculous amounts of money is totally misplaced, we need to tackle the big pollouters who run 12+ hours a day like buses, artics and trains to name a few.
There are plenty of electric busses to choose from on the market already. It just gonna require govts buying and mandating them. my local area has electric busses only and houses Ebusco an electric bus firm selling them like hot cakes.
Not to mention supertankers traversing the globe. on a smaller scale the humble motorhomer who could run his hydrogen powered engine, heat and cook his meals all on hydrogen- now that diesel and LPG are becoming extinct.
@@Zandoerlenaar And in the UK in the post war era, trolley buses and trams plus in more recent times hydrogen buses which have been around for a time too. I think the main point though is that the future will need several different 'solutions' rather than one. The problem with 'green' hydrogen currently is cost and for battery vehicles, weight and indeed, the very battery technology itself. Perhaps the most interesting vehicle shown was the hydrogen 'tanker' which would take the fuel to the vehicles where they are working, farms and construction sites.
As someone who works for a company that converts trucks, we are currently struggling to go battery electric, for our specific application. Battery technology just isn't good enough, at present. We do convert CNG powered trucks, but they also have issues with range/hours in use. I just wonder if Hydrogen is much better. Hydrogen at high pressure is a bit worrying, if things go wrong , a road crash for example. Another problem is making hydrogen, its energy intensive. We'll see if anyone else in the construction/agri world( John Deere, Caterpillar etc) goes down this route.
By thier nature, In a destructive situation the carbon-fibre tanks rip open (rather than go bang) and then the gas fly's away rather than be an ignition risk (as petrol would be)
@@rohansprenger6902 CNG is already 200-300.. Don't do steel tanks boys - there are a lot of videos of 10 year old cars making quite the havoc! (Most of them are just rusted out tanks that were supposed to be replaced already). Carbon fiber tanks should probably last 2-3 times that.
Thanks Harry good video, good to get some answers on the high Nox question and nice solution they have gone for lower firing temperature. One thing to keep in mind though, especially for mainstream products (cars) using high volumes of hydrogen would become problematic as the complete cycle efficiency from green energy to hydrogen makes it non competitive vs battery. Green energy converted into kinetic energy through a motor (~95% efficiency) and battery losses take to you say 80% efficiency. However, converting green energy to hydrogen through electrolysis 75%, then combustion at 40% gets you to 30% cycle efficiency before you have taken into account compression losses to pump it to high pressures. Happy to educate you more if you are interested!
11:50 Whilst there is no carbon in the fuel, all internal combustion engines consume a little engine oil during operation. It’s just the way the engine functions. I hope the redesign for hydrogen has incorporated some secret design elements that reduce the oil consumption to virtually zero. JCB is truly a legacy company that the British can be proud of. I wish them all the success 👍
When I was a kid in the '70's, people talked about hydrogen power, but many of those talking said it wasn't feasible. Nevertheless, it was thought that hydrogen - were it ever to materialize - could possibly be an answer to our biggest energy problems. Now that it's here, however, it sounds like there are still some obstacles to overcome. It will be interesting to see how this develops in the future. Thanks for an educational video.
Hydrogen is merely an energy storage method Batteries work at 80% efficiency Hydrogen is closer to 30%. Meaning 70% of what you put in is wasted Innovation? Or hype?
@@pauljshields123 what building site is working 24 hours a day? Remember the infrastructure required to obtain hydrogen, even at ridiculous prices, that takes up lots of room or requires someone to leave site to take the machine to a high pressure filling site. It would be faster and more compact to just have 2 batteries or 2 machines and not need the additional infrastructure. It is also far cheaper. Charging is getting faster. It may be that one day we will be able to run a cable to charge the machine while working or fast charge it during breaks. Or just overnight charge it and use a bigger battery that lasts all day We can already build big batteries. Just stack more on. The technology and infrastructure is already present. So this so called advance that requires massive infrastructure that can't be done locally on site will not work. You can pour money into forcing it to work, but a better manufacturer will say "our machines use half the power and cost one third of our leading competitor. Choose our reliable option that doesn't put out water and rust. It is sealed and works in all weathers. Reliable and very cheap. Doesn't need taking off site to refill once a day, so saves on labour costs, and improves safety with a sealed cell power unit instead of liquid gas. There is no catastrophic risk if punctured." They will get every contract going because their option is so much cheaper, so much easier and so much safer. It doesn't need off site refuelling or require on site distilling plants taking up space, requiring training and massive energy costs, and increased risk and danger. This is not a suitable energy storage medium for building sites. Cars very seldom need driving for 20 hours straight, so even in cars it is unlikely most people would have much use for this new technology. Plus faster charging may one day mean a charge in minutes. It's not far off that already.
Very smart process JCB for designing from the ground up an entirely new engine that performs exactly the same as the older Diesel one! I congratulate you on your efforts to make our future greener and thank you from the bottom of my heart! Also to have thought of creating the vehicule that transports the Hydrogen to the machineries in the field in just brilliant! As an Engineer, I am so glad to see beautiful projects such as these come to light! Bravo!!!
When people can buy an electric one, no noise, electric actuators, no hydraulic oil, electricity from any source, why would you bother with all that complicated hydrogen tec slowly eating it own plumbing
Harry, please make more videos about this, especially in terms of hydrogen production, transportation, storage, network of places to refill, etc. it feels like these aspects of hydrogen could use more light shined on them.
What an excellent and very informative video, Harry. It's great for JCB to allow you to share this excellent technology. it looks like a better system to battery power.
Great video Harry, you asked all the technical questions many journalists in the construction industry haven’t asked in their visits. And thank you for putting the nox question to them. As an owner of construction plant I am following developments of JCB and hydrogen very closely. Battery tech as it stands just won’t cut it for us
I'd be curious on some diesel L/hour numbers for different types of equipment, and typical run times for single shifts, when you say batteries wont cut it - nothing will be a drop in replacement for a 350L diesel tank, not hydrogen either, its a crazy amount of energy in a small light easy to handle liquid - a true miracle fuel - but if we are going to move past it, we will need to inconvenience ourselves a little, the question is, how much are willing to adjust our ways? Because if it's "it must be the same as diesel" then you will never get there.
@@brushlessmotoring Doing the maths shows that a battery electric solution isn't actually THAT far away if you can enable battery swapping ie not have to wait to charge batteries on the vehicle itself, which seems eminently possible for large plant machinery 350 litres of diesel at 36.9 MJ/litre is indeed a huge total energy store of 12.9GJ of energy. However an internal combustion engine only turns about 20% of that energy into useful work when run at typical (variable) loads and a hydraulic power transfer system is mono-drectional and again has poor efficiency. Studies in fact show average installed efficiency for industrial hydrualics at just 22%! Even if we generously suggest that for something like an excavator the hydrualics manage 33% efficiency that means the machine actually delivers 774 MJ of work from that 350 litre tank (6% percent efficiency tank to work........) 774MJ could be delivered with a battery electric system of around 860Mj input energy, which is 240 kWh. Yes that's a big battery, but not ridiculously so in terms of mass and bulk when we are talking about heavy plant machinery. (around 1,200 kg / 380 litres of battery). As battery cell costs fall and the operators start to understand the lower running costs of battery electric machinery, i expect these sorts of solutions to rapidly take over.
Great to see more of your content on alternative fuels, Harry. I'm still not sold on the infrastructure and production sides of H for fuel (tho it's promising), but, moving forward, we obviously need to move to a carbon neutral setup yet the industrial and commercial sides of that is immense and doesn't get much press coverage .... Good on you for continuing to do so.
Obvious? ... I think not. The sun drives our climate and the warmer the oceans the more Co2 is produced. We are helping the planet the more Co2 we produce, we are at 400ppm at the moment so dangerously close to the 120ppm which is the death of plants... DEATH OF PLANTS!!!! 4000ppm is when there is abundant life. Don't be fooled by the people that push climate lies, they just want to tax you. But at the current rate of oil usage we only have around 300 years... so no rush to find alternatives. You listen to controlled media... LIES LIES LIES Of coarse you won't listen because you have been hypnotised by the constant bombardment..
Imagine this, it's 11:00 pm on December 24th. You're 300 miles from home sitting in a Mall parking lot with nothing open for over a mile away. Only one spot at the charging station is working and it is SLOW, no fast charging available. It's going to get down to -20f tonight and your Heater is using 70% of the chargers output. You know the range of your vehicle is cut almost in half because of the temps and it will be morning before you get to 80% charge. You will need to charge two more times before you get home...hopefully before dark. Now, aren't you glad you're saving the planet and driving an electric vehicle! Thank You, Lord Bamford for giving us more options and Thank You, Harry for covering this technology.
Norway with almost 50% EV uptake now. Plus Sweden, Denmark and Finland with major electric vehicle uptake too, these have the highest uptake in Europe. But of course these are all countries with VERY warm climates.... just stop with the ICE disinformation it's getting boring now.
@@BillyBob-ri9pm You can lead a man to water but you can't make him think. Ask any Ford dealer about all those F150 Lightnings that they can't keep in stock. Ask any Fire Department about how they are going to handle a Thermal Runaway Event caused by an EV accident or event... and what the health effects are going to be for the local population. It's not disinformation when it ca be backed op by international news reports!
Good question. I asked similar at a talk with Reaction Engines some years ago (they're aiming for hypersonic hydrogen fueled air/space craft). The answer I got was the embrittlement is worse with pure hydrogen but having some impurities in the hydrogen feed can reduce/prevent embrittlement (ISTR they said oxygen in the mix, but it was a long time ago now). I think the embrittlement is also worse at/near room temperature, so might be less of an issue for a rocket engine where the hydrogen is either cryogenic or very hot, but might be more of an issue long term in heavy plant such as this. Be interesting to hear how they've designed it out and/or what the long term failure rate of the engines will be.
This is a super interesting video and congratulations to JCB for their hard work. I am in Australia and would like to see you develop in Australia as well. Well done Harry
Thanks for doing these videos Harry. I'm really interested in what the future holds and I found the first video to be very informative. This one is a great follow-up.
Fantastic video Harry. This is fascinating and hats off to JCB for their work on this. Realistically, this seems like the future rather than batteries and EVs.
Great video Harry. One of the best. Thank god we have people like Lord Bamford and his chaps. I have no doubt they are treading the right path. Great stuff. Keep us updated👍
On a tour of the Cummings factory 20 years ago they said that they believed if an engineer could come up with a commercially viable method for storing gas in a similar volume as diesel in a compact size they would be billionaires. It is certainly an interesting direction along with the CNH methane engines it will be interesting to see the true viability in the sector as a lot is certainly going to depend on infrastructure especially given how a lot of locals view planning applications for such things .
Storin g high pressure hydrogen is an expensive and dangerous business. That is why hydrogen has not caught on in cars and won't catch on in tractors either.
Fantastic video. I love how enthusiastic and excited the JCB engineers are about the project. At a cost of £15 per litre- at today’s prices hydrogen will cost £150 per day. At £20 per hour + overheads an excavator driver might cost £240. The hydrogen is not insignificant, but it is not going to dominate the cost of doing a job with an off-road vehicle. I can see this being adopted for work in ULEZ zones, and spreading out from there.
Great progress from JCB, hopefully other manufacturers will take it up to, especially the truck industry. Fantastic video keep this kind of content coming
A superb post there Harry. It strikes me again having watched the previous video two years ago that Lord Bamford is an amazing chap. I really hope all JCB’s R&D efforts can win the day commercially. I do have my concerns about Hydrogen production but hopefully they know something that we don’t. Fingers crossed that if there’s a Part 3 to this story that the final outcome is a good one
It won't win. Hydrogen combustion engines are about 20-25% efficient. Hydrogen fuel cell engines, anywhere between 40-60%. Only one technology will prevail.
This is a Real Big Feather in the Cap of ""British Engineering"" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gives a Feeling of Pride !!!!!! Good On Ya JCB and Sir Bamford and All the Team. Though i believe CAT has a Hydro engine for many years
This is an excellent video, as a diesel engineer im watching the hydrogen world with a keen eye. I do wonder what the crash protection of the storage tanks is like, 350bar is a huge amount of pressure to let go. The huge RPM of the turbocharger makes me wonder if that's a single point of failure.
some turbos already spin at 280,000 in petrol engines , Diesels spin slower ,i think what they have achieved is a turbo that spins very quickly at low engine revs but not a turbo that spins any faster than a petrol turbo .
I think you have probably seen a turbo glowing red/white hot and still run reliably ,I think a few revs will not do any harm. Also I have drove gas Scania,s with carbon tanks on the sides with no issues.
Very exciting. Im delighted to see such a big company is pushing for this technology. it wont be today or tomorrow that we will see it perfect but you have got to start somewhere. Just like the first ICE engines they weren't perfect and took awhile to get to where they re today. please bring more videos like this. Loved watching this.
Great video, Harry, and a good follow up to your July 2021 video. It is so disappointing that the British Government seems to be totally focused on electric as the only solution to meeting zero emissions in spite of all its well recognised shortcomings. Maybe we should all be writing to our MPs to wake them up to alternatives such as this one you have highlighted here. Keep this stuff coming!
The government are a waste of space. They’re only looking out for themselves - it’s got to be up to industry (and companies like JCB) to sort this out. Just have to sort out hydrogen infrastructure.
Also they seem to believe against the expert opinion that hydrogen will replace domestic gas boilers and hobs. Hydrogen is a difficult gas to contain and pipework in ground just not practical. Also problem of nox being produced in kitchens
@@caterthun4853 Biogas answers that its Methane (natural gas) produced by a biodigester fed with food and animal waste. Not only producing gas but high quality natural (odour free) fertiliser/compost as well. No more complaining neighbours to the farmer next door for slurry/muck heap spreading. Already producing it here and feeding it into the gas network.
@@caterthun4853 can you clarify your statement? I think you missed a 'not' somewhere. Electric cooking is the way to go. Combusting piped hydrogen in the home would be nuts.
@@brushlessmotoring He's referring to biomethane where you clean-up the methane coming from a digester and pump it into the mains-gas network, however looking at it purely from a financial perspective it makes more sense to use the dirty methane in a compatible generator rather than spending money on cleaning it up to mains-gas standards. One answer though is to use a cleaner feedstock in the digester such as grass (which in turn can be fed by the compost left over)
I love this, but no one talks about the loss of hydrogen while the equipment is unused, due to the pressure tank needing to relieve pressure as the tank warms up.
As systems are refined the small problems will be resolved. Everyone slating hydrogen are the same as people slating electric vehicles 10 years ago. Conventional ICE engines are safer & more efficient than they were 10 years ago. Investment drives innovation.
@@wibblywobblyworldofboats6254 err no. a hydrogen car will go about 60 miles on 1kg of hydrogen, A modern electric car will go about 180 miles on 50 kWh.
Hello Harry. It's the way to go. We have a cement plant near us. They used to have electric shovels. They were the 110 RB Ruston Bucyrus. They were plugged in to a powerplant, a large generator witch were Diesel engines and they were very iffishant for a big tracked excavator that moved Hundreds of tons of rock every day.
Fascinating thanks Harry. Nice to see a British company making waves. Though i dont doubt other engine manufacturers are doing the same research. Would be nice to see it taken to the next level of power generation.
Great video, and great efforts by JCB. Could be interesting to learn more about the efficiency comparisons with Fuel Cells. Historically FuelCells have been more efficient. As a side note it is interesting to see that the drive to hydrogen in Construction Industry is driven by Historic Racing entusiast Lord Bamford. Our company Applied Hydrogen doing similar work but with Fuel Cells are also run by Historic Motorsport enthusiasts. We bring the world forward with our passion.
I worry about the storage of Hydrogen as it is kept around 350 > 700 Bar. I foresee nasty tank explosions in the early days of this gas being deployed on sites and farms. You're a brave man standing that close to the tanks. I agree charging battery-based building site or farm machines in remote areas is not going to work in many cases. But we must not forget that once you produce this gas, compress it, transport it, and burn it in an engine, you only get around 28% of the energy you put in at the start. So everything we can electrify we should for sure before reaching for Hydrogen. I agree for some long lorry/truck trips that have to be over 400 miles or long-distance shipping, then Hydrogen is one of the only options. But there are plenty of lorry routes under 400 miles where an electric truck will work fine. The Regen braking on a battery lorry will re-capture up to 20% of the energy on a typical run and do over 90% of the stopping work, whereas a Hydrogen lorry would need to apply the old style brakes, which need replacing just like diesel trucks, thus still generating brake dust. I am sad, Harry, that you dismissed the work of Tesla, and the Tesla Semi, a large full truck capable of up to 425 miles at full load (37 tons). This could replace many routes in the UK and is 90% more efficient than any Hydrogen truck can ever be. Also, engines that burn fuel or gas still need oil changes and new parts as you found out, producing parts has a carbon impact at every service interval. Electric motors do not, and the battery can be recycled at the end of its life. As you say, it needs to be a multi-pronged approach. Thanks for the video and for getting us debating.
Great to see another person flagging the Hydrogen Hierarchy- its uses should be limited to specific industries due to its incredibly inefficient production.
Batteries may be viable for small vehicles and even trucks, as you have pointed out with your example of a Tesla semis, I just don't see them replacing diesel engines in the huge machines used in constructions and the mining industry. Unless geniuses out there come up with a light batteries, diesel will still be the energy source for heavy duty works and if governments ban diesel then hydrogen may become a viable alternative. The fact that the tesla semi is still not yet in production four or five years after Musk showed it off to the public says it all really. I will be convinced of its viability once I see a tesla semi pull 30 tons and achieve range greater than 700 miles.
I agree a multi approach,,, and I can see why you would be hesitant about Hydrogen tanks, but have you thought about the fire hazard of the kind of battery being proposed for a 40ton truck.. If that battery self ignites it will be weeks before it can be put out.. No there is no easy solution,and EVs are certainly not the all in one option.
I really enjoyed this. This sounds really promising and I hope this can find its way into all sorts of vehicles. EV, hydrogen and alternative fuels is a well rounded approach to sorting the issue.
As an ex-HGV driver for DHL on the Perkins Diesel Engine(Peterborough)contract When I first started as a agency driver 1 of 10 or 12 a week all we did was take trailer loads 5/6(25-30) engines a day to the Rocester factory off the A50 I have spent hours of my life sat in Old truck seats waiting for the pratt in an office to deside that this load is just in time I have known Turkish drivers to sit outside Perkins factory for 5 days waiting to be tipped
Really love the video Harry, and the eagerness to learn about modern tech, and show it to us!. Going to get a lot of hate for this one, but I really want to be convinced hydrogen is better than BEV, especially for these applications, but unfortunately the physics of hydrogen really isn't working in my brain. I'm not blinded by the electric/diesel/hydrogen side of the fence, but you really can't beat the numbers, and ultimately consumers will buy what's cheapest to run, and what is the best experience. Off the napkin maths from their H2 numbers seems to suggest that the first tractor shown only uses about 250kWh a day worth of Hydrogen? In that size of machinery, 250kWh worth of battery capacity is child's play... and that's on current chemistry not future. Of course that may not be possible to charge overnight in all locations, and whilst most locations could, the same 'diesel bowser' approach applies, where a MWh scale battery can be located to site in exactly the same way, at a MUCH lower unit cost. We already use high-power feeds for sites in most examples anyway, so the work is almost already done for us. For every 1 tanker of diesel delivered now, you'd need 6 of them for hydrogen because of its energy density - that sounds like a lot of disruption to me for no cost benefit. The reason BEVs have won over H2 in cars are because they provide a superior user experience, not because they're green. Whether that's the experience of the drivetrain or the cost of operation. To me, JCB bragging that this will be indistinguishable from a diesel experience is their biggest problem, there's absolutely no incentive for the user to move other than the flamboyant choice of paint colour. The fundamental vehicle architecture needs to change to take full advantage of each fuel type (like where ground-up BEVs are much, much better than ICE conversions, so same goes here - they should look completely different to conventional designs), and since the user experience with H2 isn't better, and for it to be sustainable all H2 must come from renewable energy anyway, physics is screaming for us to cut out the useless middleman. The promise of green H2 really does feel like the gateway to blue/grey H2 which is just burning gas - bringing us back to square 1 (I fear this is the idea all along anyway). I understand that JCB want to reuse as much of their sunk capital in diesel development as possible, which makes sense for their business, but in terms of the technology it's just all wrong. I think the bottom line is that for every 1 wind turbine or solar panel needed to power BEV machinery, there needs to be 2 or 3 for H2, that means at least double the land use, double the capital investment, and double the unit cost for the same output. That seems to be the fundamental floor that H2 can never overcome. Whilst we need to explore every new technology to reduce our impact, like this one, it needs to be better and cheaper for the user, and if it's not it's time to move to the next. The numbers don't lie, and the market will weed out the worst technologies either way...
Yep. I'm working on hydrogen for aviation applications at the moment, and for that specific use case hydrogen makes more sense than batteries for the foreseeable future. But that's due to a set of challenges that don't apply for ground vehicles. Maybe these bits of heavy machinery are a borderline case with current battery tech, I imagine JCB have run the numbers and won't argue with them! But I can't see that lasting long term. Hydrogen cars and hydrogen for home heating are totally impractical, and always will be. It just isn't going to happen, batteries and heat pumps are going to win because they're superior in every way, especially with developments currently coming down the pipe for batteries. I'm a proponent of hydrogen in the small number of applications where it makes sense. But a lot of time and money is being wasted around the world working on sticking hydrogen in places it has no business being, because it's an easy way to extract money from powerful people who buy into the marketing and don't understand the reality behind it all.
JCB claim "batteries don't work for heavy plant" but it just doesn't wash with me, there are three main drawbacks compared to existing ICE solutions: 1) they claim weight is an issue - why then do things like 360 excavators, quarry trucks, tractors and dozzers all carry extra mass in the form of huge cast iron counter/balance weights? Just replace those with the batteries? 2) Recharging times - simply make the battery pack demountable. Pretty easy on a large heavy plant machine, when it's flat just go pick up a full one, the packs can be charged off the vehicle if that vehicle needs to work 24/7 3) cost - this is really the true reason. If you already have a logistics and supply chain to support the ICE powertrain, then yes, it is indeed expensive to replace that with one for batteries and motors. However those costs are falling markedy. Most OEM passcar studies suggest cost parity (at volume equivalence) within a couple of years. There is also the not inconsiderable potential (sic) for EOL battery sales to recoup significant proportion of the inital battery cost for second life applications (a worn out diesel engine worth just scrap value, a worn out battery still has significant value)
12:30 if you are running high pressure high temperature like any other ICE what about NOx? Do you still have a catalyser? How does it work with the lack of any carbon in the combustion?
This country, like all western nations is already bankrupt. I don't think jcb will go bankrupt though, as the jcb plant in India can continue to manufacture derv power plants and trade with the new emerging markets in the east , collectively known as " Brics". Unfortunately the site at uttoxeter would have to close ! Of course this could be avoided if net zero was abolished , it is after all a , Teresa May initiative.
A very silly idea. Using even blue hydrogen saves no CO2. Green hydrogen is super expensive. That is besides the fact that the only decent way to use hydrogen is via fuel cell and electric. Madness.
This is an incredible development and a real practical solution to excavation equipment and I would have thought transferable to lorries and buses. Plus it’s great British innovation. Great job, now just need the hydrogen network.
Very interesting video Harry! Fantastic to see how fast their progress has been going. But I think batteries biggest advantage over hydrogen is still the price. it's just so much cheaper and most of the problems with long charging can be done with battery swap or fast charging. Anyway its great either way which will be used :)
@@bru512 Sure. it will depend on different markets. but with batteries charged from solar/wind directly it is about 3 cents or less. from the grid it would be between 10 and 20 cents(depending on where). batteries will have a cost of about 2-10 cents over lifetime. so with this its is between 2-5 times cheaper than diesel or hydrogen at its current state
@@bru512 a 3 pin cost about £100 to put in. The cheapest hydrogen fuel pump is about $2000000 And you can't really drop the price per mile below £0.15 per mile, (if fuel was free)
Very informative video. Hope JCB will sort out some standardization of parts for these new hydrogen vehicles so that those purchasing second hand equipment in future are able to service them and obtain parts. It's important also that those with older JCB diesel engine machines do not get forgotten and can continue to service and repair their vehicles. There are various interesting videos on TH-cam regarding John Deere's attitude towards the right to repair.
There is no known path to get hydrogen anywhere near cost-parity to diesel. It's like saying "When we develop fusion, electricity will be too cheap to meter." Well, yeah, but we don't know how to do fusion commercially, just like we can't make and transport green hydrogen in anything near a cost-effective manner. Diesel is a major cost of farming on a large scale. Hydrogen would make farmers go broke and people go hungry.
We've gotta start somewhere mate. There was probably people saying the same thing about petrol/diesel with the first combustion engines. Before Fuel tankers, oil rigs and petrol stations. They didn't just build that infrastructure stuff for fun before the combustion engine
Working on the edge of the development of bio-hydrogen technologies, it's great to see the other end of the hydrogen fuel system so well developed - this will push others in the sector significantly I hope. Really good video, thank you.
14:30 Very impressive how JCB can reduce the compression ratio while increasing the boost on lean burn , and still match the torque curve of a Diesel. Most other ICE hydrogen engines are well down on the fossil fuels power due to the low density of the fuel.
Love the video, but something doesn’t add up. They said the machine hold 6-10kg of hydrogen. Now hydrogen contain around 3 times more energy than diesel in a kg for kg comparison. Now they also said the efficiency is about the same , which makes sense as the are both using combustion. But a tractor store 300 to 500L and some days that is not enough to go a full day. With the hydrogen we would then have to refil 10 times in one day! Also the well to wheel efficiency of burning hydrogen is just pathetic 😅
I was trying to work out how many kWh of battery you would need for half a day of operating, with a battery swap between shifts ... I think it's 200kWh, same as the Hummer EV battery pack, and then use the battery mass as a counterweight. Charge one while you are using another.
A 300hp tractor pulling a cultivator would burn 50L an hour. That’s the same as 600kwh, worth in diesel. Since a electric drivetrain is around 4 times more efficient we would need use 150kWh every hour 😅
@@Homegaarden that sounds right. For a car, it's about 2.5kWh of electricity per L of gasoline to go the same distance, you have it at 3kWh per L, I could see the efficiency of a diesel engine making up the difference. A hydrogen fuel cell can go 100km on 1kg, an EV uses 18kWh, a Civic 7.2L of gasoline. Hydrogen combustion is less efficient than a fuel cell. You are not going to replace a 350L diesel tank with a 1000kWh battery, some compromise needs to be made, and run time is it. Swapping allows minimal downtime, and also allows the replaced battery some time to charge back up again. It will probably be no different to the hydrogen refill timing based on a 6-10kg tank, and probably be quicker too - at best a tank to tank transfer can equalize the pressure of both tanks, but you need a compressor to fully empty the source tank. Electricity will be 10 times cheaper than hydrogen.
I noticed that the operative demonstrating the hose connection and tank filling was wearing gloves. Just how cold do the nozzle and hoses get I wonder?
Harry what is the price difference between the diesel and hydrogen engines ,? Also have watched both videos and found them extremely informative hope there will be a follow up . Well done jcb
As I see it, the cost of the engine tech is infinitesimal compared to production, transport and then storing it again on site.. The big difference is: both farmers and building sites have the need to store fuel in site. Easy with a few removable bunded poly tanks. Now consider the situation with hydrogen.....its not going to happen - is it, not without a prohibitive install cost.
@@Kaltybean are they heck. There in endless meetings - many in up market hotels outside of the M25 working on schemes to funnel tax payers money into companies that they're 'consultant directors' of. That was the core reason behind HS2
It seems JCB is doing an amazing hydrogen engineering enabling heavy machinery to become green and sustainable in the future. Thank you for bringing this great video!
Hymn, We have to diversify and explore every avenue when it comes to energy, but as far as Hydrogen is concerned there are two huge obstacles to overcome, cost of production and storage. Understandably Bamford is creating a big spin on this , but considering he is a close friend and leading sponsor of Borris Johnson, I wouldn’t necessarily believe all what he says.
Extraordinary Harry! Have you ever thought of testing a fuel cell to generate electricity on your farm? It was state of the art clean energy production when I attended Penn State for Architectural Engineering from 1998-2001.
Has a school boy i did a project about farm machine,s and JCB sent more items and info than any other company and i have always remembered that with GREAT RESPECT and admiration for JCB.
Great to know we still have some amazing talent and brilliant industry still here in England .Thank you Lord Bamford
You have 1 place left.
Hope they have security to protect their technology from China.
YEP - this is what the UK should be doing - leading the way on the tech the world needs for the next 50 years. Not giving out oil and gas licences and hanging onto 100 year old technology
@@wyattfamily8997 Toyota is way ahead in the game they are even going for ammonia combustion engines for ships.
@@wyattfamily8997 if they wanted to save the planet shouldn't they be giving the knowledge away. Global warming is a scam.
JCB is one of the few gems left in British industry.
Certainly British owned.
@@travelcampervansandmore and most important private, out of the stock markets. They don't have to please analysts and shareholders every quarter.
A lot of the 360 excavator drivers I talk to think they're shite.
Made in India..
@@jackiechan8840 there's always one troll
🇬🇧As an Englishman, I am so proud of all of you at JCB ! Well done everyone from a humble Yorkshire Electrician 👍
Yes Brexit has been a fantastic uplift to the sector🇬🇧
As a Scot 🏴I am very proud of the British company 🇬🇧JCB racing ahead with the development of Hydrogen engines. Good job we have loads of windfarms and lots of water in Scotland,to create loads of green hydrogen,for British construction equipment!!😀
3:30 Very interesting comment there by Lord Bamford stating that owners would be able to work on repairing the engines just like shop mechanics can, I find that very positive in light of how companies like John Deer go all out to prevent owners from even touching the motor etc.
No talking - doing! Its good to see. Thank you JCB and Harry! Please keep on going.
Well done JCB, and not just some CEO, but the boss himself, that to me says a great deal, he's delighted to show what his team have done, congratulations JCB.
Harry as a farmer's son, and an estate manager, I wondered how we would get the grass cut, battery power is just to heavy, I like this system.
Thank you for taking the time to show us our future
This should be mandatory to view by every politician in the world! Excellent thanks to you and JCB
Yes. It must be mandatory viewing to show politicians how old established companies stuck in the past are just going up a blind alley. JCB is screwed if they do not change course.
Congratulations to JCB for grasping the nettle and developing a replacement engine, and thanks to yourself for producing this video. Excellent.
It’ll be their downfall
I hope it works. How much will it cost to keep full with hydrogen though? Petrol and diesel have had a century to mature. Other technologies won't be given as long before being ditched
Excellent video, I’ve wanted to know about hydrogen fueling for years now, I’m also a farmer and could just not see how I could operate on battery powered tractors, excavators, pumps ect. I’m impressed and now have a more positive outlook for the future of agriculture and pastural businesses, especially here in Queensland , Australia where we have huge tracts of land that need to worked efficiently to produce food for the world market. Go JCB.
Stay away from hydrogen fueled equipment. The hydrogen is the problem. You can never get around that it is hydrogen.
Hydrogen is an explosive... If you don't understand,,put a match on a car battery with the cap off.🤨
It only takes a tiny little bit.💥
Well, you won't operate any better on H2 than on battery; get your checkbook out because it's going to cost you a lot more to do the same work you did with diesel!!
The aim of the banksters is to bankrupt the farmer corporates and seize the land and businesses... And frankly the farmers are playing into their hands as are the corporates......
you have a very limited imagination if you cannot see how you could operate on battery powered tractors etc. I can assure you that if you actually see a hydrogen powered tractor thew operating costs will shock you. Batteries are the way ahead.
I worked in the same design office as Ryan at Triumph Motorcycles 20+ years ago. I'm very impressed and humbled by how far he's come.
Still a fossil fuel addict.
Triumph, a misnomer if ever there was one.
For Africa this is a game changer. JCB through their Raze H2 business (Jo Bamford's business) have a deal with an Aussie firm, Fortescue to establish a supply of friendly Hydrogen (as green as possible). With renewable energy costs falling daily means the costs of H2 production is falling rapidly.
Thanks Harry, a really interesting video. Hats off to JCB for the progress they've made towards hydrogen powered heavy duty vehicles. Also, credit to the company for maintaining their factories in Britain as well as opening up abroad.
Excellent video, Hopefully the people who have not Managed to get it working are Watching this !!!!!, Brilliant Engineering form Jcb And the most comprehensive information so far with the Refuelling Shown, This is the most important game changer in modern history, Hopefully Jcb will work with the Australian mining company who have managed to use Diesel and Hydrogen in the combustion chamber with 85% Less Emissions, and Should be Able to be used as a After market Bolt on Kit ,Thanks Sir Anthony Bamford for placing British Products Again Ahead of the competition Amazing progress in a Few years Development, This Technology Should keep my 1963 Jcb 3c Running for the next 60 years 🤣👍
Give it a few years and theyll shut the uk ones they were never going to close one set and open new ones at the same time
@@lynjames4306 bond love ft tuj
@@highlandrab19 hope not mate
JCB worldwide manufacturing headquarters... India. Their direction of travel is obvious.
Great video Harry - so good to see this great solution for these types of big heavy hardworking machines. Thank goodness JCB have poured money into this & developed it given the lack of interest & support from UK Gov.
Dear Harry please investigate hydrogen production, transportation and storage at the filling stations of the hydrogen. That will be an eye opener!
Yes. It will demonstrate very clearly why JCB is going up a blind alley and that they will be going the way of the dodo if they don not change.
@@rogerphelps9939 Industrial hydrogen use is at 350 bar which makes it easier to work with than for cars where it is 700 bar plus and often liquid does not take up the same room as gas. JCB have obviously considered the supply side, which for industry is different to domestic. If you want a green fuel for your car get a diesel and use bio fuel (ie cooking oil)
Farmers won't like paying through the nose for this nonsense. Liquid H2 on a farm? No way. JCB are toast.@@wahiba
Toasted in an hydrogen powered toaster? JCB provide mainly industrial plant and it seems to me they have included the Hydrogen supply chain in their calculations. Farmers being more intermittent in their use of power will no doubt use a mixture of electricity and hydrogen. We have been here before; horses to steam, steam to liquid fuel IC. The world did not end then, so why now?@@rogerphelps9939
Harry thank you this was fascinating and enlightening. Coming from the haulage background I have long had an inkling that flogging away at batteries for our needs just won't do it for a vast spread of road haulage operations. So I am surprised the major truck manufacturers have not started this push towards Internal Combustion Hydrogen. I think Hydrogen makes people think of fuel cells and thus it becomes very misunderstood. JCB make what they have gone for look easy! Interesting times ahead, keep up the great work on documenting this stuff
Thank you so much for showing us this. Great to see some companies going down this route, electricity & battery technology isn't the answer to everything. I hope JCB prosper developing this tech.
Hydrogen is not the solution for powering agricultural machinery.
@rogerphelps9939 I guess you will always find haters of hydrogen tech as you will with electric. As a former farmer, I find the diesel engine very hard to beat. Hydrogen has to be seriously considered if we aren't going to be able to use diesel in the future.
Why not upload a video and explain your reasoning.
@@Banditmanuk Plenty of eco alternatives to diesel fuel that will power regular diesel vehicles and some of the newer diesel engines are the cleanest on the planet so why the change ?
Brilliant presentation, very informative. Thank you Harry
The future lies in a mix of technologies. No one technology or solution fits all applications.... automotive, agriculture, mass transit, aviation etc. This solution would appear to suit the agriculture application well (unlike battery electric) but the main issue is that you don't just dig a hole in the ground and suck up hydrogen, it's massively energy intensive to produce. So the environmental credentials of each technology/solution is still a challenging problem, just like other technologies. Very interesting though.
Who says that hydrogen ICEs are superior to battery electric? The hydrogen infrastructure is not there and they can't even make it work for cars plus the fact that running costs are very high. Just about every farm is connected to the electricity grid and tractors are very rarely in use all night. JCB are backing the wrong horse.
@@rogerphelps9939 Hi Roger. If it can work for large formerly diesel machinery, how come it won't work for cars? I've talked to mechanics who have converted their petrol cars to hydrogen as a hobby project and with an onboard water electrolysis unit! The car made its own hydrogen and powered the car no problem.
@@nephos100 🤣🤣🤣 they got you good .
@@callumcurtis15 Good one, Callam. Next time provide an argument. Otherwise, just let the adults talk.
@@nephos100 It is not that hydrogen 'can not work', but it is not any good, practical. There were hydrogen filling stations set up in several countries including the UK by Shell, they have closed them, another country recently. The only hydrogen that would or will be acceptable is that made from electricity, cleanly. It delivers about a third of the power needed to create it.
4th largest iron ore producer Fortescue tried out big equipment in both Hydrogen and electric power versions and have dumped hydrogen as electric was so much better.
th-cam.com/video/j7n7qk3NY0k/w-d-xo.html covered at about 2;30 in on that.
Harry deserves a medal for patience with these guys who clearly are by no means natural good communicators.
People used to joke 'hydrogen is the fuel of tomorrow... and it always will be.' It looks like tomorrow is finally arriving - well done Lord Bamford and JCB! Politicians can decide what they like but it will always be real world innovators who shape the future. Great video Harry, exciting times.
I thought that joke was about nuclear fusion reactors, wasn't it? (Not hydrogen.)
Politicians do not make decisions - corporations DO! Same the world over
Actuallyhysrogen is still the fuel of tomorrow.
@@Ingens_Scherz it was both bro
I have a 3.5 litre car. Wouldn't it be nice if I could retro-fit an hydrogen power plant? Brilliant work JCB and great video Harry.
Great video Harry! I had the chance to spend a week at the JCB test site quarry last summer for work experience and got to try out the hydrogen machines. It's really amazing how much technology has progressed with these engines. I think 2023 is going to be a really exciting year for more developments!
Yeah like my self cleaning pants .who gives a shit? We won't be around when this if at all becomes the norm.
@@Skynet4444 What happens to the shit on your pants? Does the self cleaning feature require more energy to clean than the energy input. Shit stain :Force = Mass x Velocity squared divided by area affected.
JCB could make money selling "Experiences" at the test site quarry!
Love your comment, could you advise on how my recently graduated son could get work experience at JCB? The future is looking a lot brighter.
Amazing, very impressive! Almost no limits for great engineering!
Once it gets to one dollar a kilo,the govt will tax it up to five.
You have to remember that Green Hydrogen is not a source of energy, unlike the grey Hydrogen that is currently used by JCB. Green Hydrogen is just a means of storing energy just like a battery. You start with electrical energy, throw away 25% of it to convert water to Hydrogren, then throw away 10% to compress it, throw more away transporting it on a tanker to a filling station. Throw more of it away to compress it in to the to the vehicles tanks. Finally if using an internal combustion engine throw 50% of it away as waste heat. Probably the energy losses could be justified for some applications (like aviation) but the infrastructure to distribute it is more of a problem. We can't put more than 10% hydrogen in to our current gas network because it will embrittle the plastic pipes. I can't see the country being able to afford to double up our gas network with a hydrogen network even if we just connect filling stations. This is because Hydrogen is really difficult to pipe because it leaks out through conventional gas joints and you can't use conventional plastic pipes which would make a hydrogen pipe network more than double the cost of an CNG network. As a result it is always going to have to be transported by tanker. However Hydrogen compressed to very high 700bar takes up 6 times the amount of volume for the same energy as petrol and liquifying it which takes a lot of energy only reduces this to 4 times the volume. Consequently you are going to need 6x the number of fuel tankers to transport it. Although I would love Hydrogen to be a competitor to battery technology I just can't see it happening on a wide scale.
Absolutely fantastic brake down of it all buddy 👌 they have also forgot to mention the massive fire and explosion effects if these goes up In fire 🔥..to me it would make more sense to have a technology that extracts the carbon from the diesel before it even gets to the farm ..as the saying goes you can’t get more out than you put in .. it’s all about balance
Unfortunately using this grey hydrogen release’s more CO2 than burning the CH4 in the engine directly. To produce 1kg of hydrogen by electrolysis requires 50 kWh of electricity and 9 litres of water. That over 9 pounds just for the electricity alone. Then it still needs to be compressed and transported. One pound per kg is not going to happen.😢
@@jonnybloggs6790 they also forgot to mention the fire and explosion possibilities with battery vehicles , it doesn't take much to find a video showing what happens when one of those " green " solutions goes wrong
Good points, well made. Thanks.
@@kawasakikev8905 Any source of concentrated energy has a fire/ explosion risk. Why are you equating only green solutions having this happen? They aren't portrayed as being any safer. Never seen an old fashioned petroleum fuelled vehicle on fire?
Great innovation from JCB and definitely the right early adoption move for the company to thrive in the market.
A lot of more pressures and more parts, inservicable and expensive
sadly not. hydrogen is a dead end as it requires massive amounts of electricity to make it. there are 3 grades of hydrogen Green blue and brown, the green is as you would expect enviromentally friendly. but the brown and blue come with massive Co2 creation. The brown is made directly from coal
It's grossly more efficient to use the electricity to charge a battery than to produce hydrogen. You need on the order of 5-10x as much electricity to produce the requisite amount of hydrogen, as you would if you'd just charged a battery and used an electric motor.
I work with hydrogen in aviation. It has a small number of niche use cases. But it is not viable for cars, heating, and frankly I highly doubt the cost per kWh for agriculture will ever allow this to be adopted by farmers.
@@Daniel-S1 if you had taken the time to read my comments you will see that I clearly state that there are 3 types of hydrogen , green, blue and brown. What you are talking about here is termed green hydrogen. unfortunately it is the least produced version accounting for less than 5% as it is the most expensive of the methords
@@jukeseyableIf you had taken the time to do some proper research you would know that there are many more colours of H2. Pink (nuclear) Grey (Nat. Gas) Black (coal) Brown (Lignite) Blue (Nat. Gas with CCS ie a con job) Green (electrolysis via renewable energy) and even turquoise, yellow and white. Take your pick lol
Richard Hammond has definitely changed the last time we saw him..Thanks Richard very much enjoyed your latest JCB Engine video
Great to see, I remember watching your previous visit to JCB and it is great to see how far they have progressed their development, at least one British manufacturer who gets on with it ! Obviously the fly in the ointment is the production of green hydrogen but I'm totally in agreement with you, the end result will be a 'mixed' solution rather than one size fits all. I have always thought that the emphasis on electric cars which costs ridiculous amounts of money is totally misplaced, we need to tackle the big pollouters who run 12+ hours a day like buses, artics and trains to name a few.
There are plenty of electric busses to choose from on the market already. It just gonna require govts buying and mandating them. my local area has electric busses only and houses Ebusco an electric bus firm selling them like hot cakes.
Not to mention supertankers traversing the globe. on a smaller scale the humble motorhomer who could run his hydrogen powered engine, heat and cook his meals all on hydrogen- now that diesel and LPG are becoming extinct.
@@Zandoerlenaar And in the UK in the post war era, trolley buses and trams plus in more recent times hydrogen buses which have been around for a time too. I think the main point though is that the future will need several different 'solutions' rather than one. The problem with 'green' hydrogen currently is cost and for battery vehicles, weight and indeed, the very battery technology itself. Perhaps the most interesting vehicle shown was the hydrogen 'tanker' which would take the fuel to the vehicles where they are working, farms and construction sites.
@@gordonlennox4501 Absolutely, I was surprised to find how much polution shipping emits :)
Ha, if you think electric cars are "too expensive" i can't wait for you to find out the purchase and runing cost for a Hydrogen one....... ;-)
Thanks Harry - these are some of the best videos you do. Mega hats off to JCB (British and family owned, remember!).
As someone who works for a company that converts trucks, we are currently struggling to go battery electric, for our specific application. Battery technology just isn't good enough, at present. We do convert CNG powered trucks, but they also have issues with range/hours in use. I just wonder if Hydrogen is much better. Hydrogen at high pressure is a bit worrying, if things go wrong , a road crash for example. Another problem is making hydrogen, its energy intensive. We'll see if anyone else in the construction/agri world( John Deere, Caterpillar etc) goes down this route.
Also the early hydrogen engines needed very clean air which resulted in frequent filter changes.
@@caterthun4853 that was the fuel cell type, combustion engines like these aren't as fussy making them better for construction, farming, marine, etc.
By thier nature, In a destructive situation the carbon-fibre tanks rip open (rather than go bang) and then the gas fly's away rather than be an ignition risk (as petrol would be)
@@backacheache at 350x atmospheric pressure, I'd rather not be anywhere near it if it "rips open".
@@rohansprenger6902 CNG is already 200-300.. Don't do steel tanks boys - there are a lot of videos of 10 year old cars making quite the havoc! (Most of them are just rusted out tanks that were supposed to be replaced already). Carbon fiber tanks should probably last 2-3 times that.
Thanks Harry good video, good to get some answers on the high Nox question and nice solution they have gone for lower firing temperature. One thing to keep in mind though, especially for mainstream products (cars) using high volumes of hydrogen would become problematic as the complete cycle efficiency from green energy to hydrogen makes it non competitive vs battery. Green energy converted into kinetic energy through a motor (~95% efficiency) and battery losses take to you say 80% efficiency. However, converting green energy to hydrogen through electrolysis 75%, then combustion at 40% gets you to 30% cycle efficiency before you have taken into account compression losses to pump it to high pressures. Happy to educate you more if you are interested!
Your right, the maths don't work out for cars but for construction and marine these could be a game-changer.
Brilliant! JCB, British innovation at it's best. So exciting. Well done Lord Bamford & JCB expertise
Fascinating insight into the world of hydrogen powered machines. Really enjoyed watching. Great to see Stanley is back!
Brilliant. Great British engineering with a confident commitment. Light at the end of the tunnel.
11:50 Whilst there is no carbon in the fuel, all internal combustion engines consume a little engine oil during operation.
It’s just the way the engine functions.
I hope the redesign for hydrogen has incorporated some secret design elements that reduce the oil consumption to virtually zero.
JCB is truly a legacy company that the British can be proud of.
I wish them all the success 👍
It is legacy in the worst sense of the word.
They do make biodegradable motor oil, so once H2 motors are everywhere., the demange will increase.
Modern engines burn very little of their lubrication oil even at 95000 miles I have yet to need to top up between services.
When I was a kid in the '70's, people talked about hydrogen power, but many of those talking said it wasn't feasible. Nevertheless, it was thought that hydrogen - were it ever to materialize - could possibly be an answer to our biggest energy problems. Now that it's here, however, it sounds like there are still some obstacles to overcome. It will be interesting to see how this develops in the future. Thanks for an educational video.
Its greenwash bs
Hydrogen is merely an energy storage method
Batteries work at 80% efficiency
Hydrogen is closer to 30%. Meaning 70% of what you put in is wasted
Innovation? Or hype?
The machine can work 24hrs two 12 shifts...electrical machine is parked up on charge. .
@@pauljshields123 what building site is working 24 hours a day? Remember the infrastructure required to obtain hydrogen, even at ridiculous prices, that takes up lots of room or requires someone to leave site to take the machine to a high pressure filling site. It would be faster and more compact to just have 2 batteries or 2 machines and not need the additional infrastructure. It is also far cheaper.
Charging is getting faster. It may be that one day we will be able to run a cable to charge the machine while working or fast charge it during breaks. Or just overnight charge it and use a bigger battery that lasts all day
We can already build big batteries. Just stack more on. The technology and infrastructure is already present. So this so called advance that requires massive infrastructure that can't be done locally on site will not work. You can pour money into forcing it to work, but a better manufacturer will say "our machines use half the power and cost one third of our leading competitor. Choose our reliable option that doesn't put out water and rust. It is sealed and works in all weathers. Reliable and very cheap. Doesn't need taking off site to refill once a day, so saves on labour costs, and improves safety with a sealed cell power unit instead of liquid gas. There is no catastrophic risk if punctured."
They will get every contract going because their option is so much cheaper, so much easier and so much safer. It doesn't need off site refuelling or require on site distilling plants taking up space, requiring training and massive energy costs, and increased risk and danger.
This is not a suitable energy storage medium for building sites. Cars very seldom need driving for 20 hours straight, so even in cars it is unlikely most people would have much use for this new technology. Plus faster charging may one day mean a charge in minutes. It's not far off that already.
@@truth.speaker Hydrogen in combustion engines is even worse than that 30%.
Very smart process JCB for designing from the ground up an entirely new engine that performs exactly the same as the older Diesel one! I congratulate you on your efforts to make our future greener and thank you from the bottom of my heart! Also to have thought of creating the vehicule that transports the Hydrogen to the machineries in the field in just brilliant! As an Engineer, I am so glad to see beautiful projects such as these come to light! Bravo!!!
JCB will end up like Morgan. An outdated irrelevance shackled to an outdated technology. The future is electric.
When people can buy an electric one, no noise, electric actuators, no hydraulic oil, electricity from any source, why would you bother with all that complicated hydrogen tec slowly eating it own plumbing
Harry, please make more videos about this, especially in terms of hydrogen production, transportation, storage, network of places to refill, etc. it feels like these aspects of hydrogen could use more light shined on them.
Or you could just watch the Simpsons, same result.
Indeed. Then we will see that hydrogen is an expensive folly.
What an excellent and very informative video, Harry. It's great for JCB to allow you to share this excellent technology. it looks like a better system to battery power.
Great video Harry, you asked all the technical questions many journalists in the construction industry haven’t asked in their visits. And thank you for putting the nox question to them. As an owner of construction plant I am following developments of JCB and hydrogen very closely. Battery tech as it stands just won’t cut it for us
I'd be curious on some diesel L/hour numbers for different types of equipment, and typical run times for single shifts, when you say batteries wont cut it - nothing will be a drop in replacement for a 350L diesel tank, not hydrogen either, its a crazy amount of energy in a small light easy to handle liquid - a true miracle fuel - but if we are going to move past it, we will need to inconvenience ourselves a little, the question is, how much are willing to adjust our ways? Because if it's "it must be the same as diesel" then you will never get there.
@@brushlessmotoring Doing the maths shows that a battery electric solution isn't actually THAT far away if you can enable battery swapping ie not have to wait to charge batteries on the vehicle itself, which seems eminently possible for large plant machinery
350 litres of diesel at 36.9 MJ/litre is indeed a huge total energy store of 12.9GJ of energy.
However an internal combustion engine only turns about 20% of that energy into useful work when run at typical (variable) loads and a hydraulic power transfer system is mono-drectional and again has poor efficiency. Studies in fact show average installed efficiency for industrial hydrualics at just 22%! Even if we generously suggest that for something like an excavator the hydrualics manage 33% efficiency that means the machine actually delivers 774 MJ of work from that 350 litre tank (6% percent efficiency tank to work........)
774MJ could be delivered with a battery electric system of around 860Mj input energy, which is 240 kWh. Yes that's a big battery, but not ridiculously so in terms of mass and bulk when we are talking about heavy plant machinery. (around 1,200 kg / 380 litres of battery). As battery cell costs fall and the operators start to understand the lower running costs of battery electric machinery, i expect these sorts of solutions to rapidly take over.
Wrong. He was farr too uncritical. A proper investigator woulf have torn it to shreds.
He actually dived into the minutiae of something that is pretty conventional and completely ignored rthe massive hydrogen elephants in the room.
Great summary. With any energy ‘solution’ you have to consider the whole back story.
Great to see more of your content on alternative fuels, Harry. I'm still not sold on the infrastructure and production sides of H for fuel (tho it's promising), but, moving forward, we obviously need to move to a carbon neutral setup yet the industrial and commercial sides of that is immense and doesn't get much press coverage .... Good on you for continuing to do so.
Obvious? ... I think not. The sun drives our climate and the warmer the oceans the more Co2 is produced. We are helping the planet the more Co2 we produce, we are at 400ppm at the moment so dangerously close to the 120ppm which is the death of plants... DEATH OF PLANTS!!!! 4000ppm is when there is abundant life. Don't be fooled by the people that push climate lies, they just want to tax you. But at the current rate of oil usage we only have around 300 years... so no rush to find alternatives.
You listen to controlled media... LIES LIES LIES
Of coarse you won't listen because you have been hypnotised by the constant bombardment..
We don’t need to move away from Co2 . Ppm is only just 250 ppm over the death of plant life. We need more Co2 not less.
Imagine this, it's 11:00 pm on December 24th. You're 300 miles from home sitting in a Mall parking lot with nothing open for over a mile away. Only one spot at the charging station is working and it is SLOW, no fast charging available. It's going to get down to -20f tonight and your Heater is using 70% of the chargers output. You know the range of your vehicle is cut almost in half because of the temps and it will be morning before you get to 80% charge. You will need to charge two more times before you get home...hopefully before dark. Now, aren't you glad you're saving the planet and driving an electric vehicle!
Thank You, Lord Bamford for giving us more options and Thank You, Harry for covering this technology.
Norway with almost 50% EV uptake now. Plus Sweden, Denmark and Finland with major electric vehicle uptake too, these have the highest uptake in Europe. But of course these are all countries with VERY warm climates.... just stop with the ICE disinformation it's getting boring now.
@@BillyBob-ri9pm You can lead a man to water but you can't make him think. Ask any Ford dealer about all those F150 Lightnings that they can't keep in stock. Ask any Fire Department about how they are going to handle a Thermal Runaway Event caused by an EV accident or event... and what the health effects are going to be for the local population. It's not disinformation when it ca be backed op by international news reports!
How are they avoiding the steel suffering hydrogen embrittlement?
Don't be silly.
Good question. I asked similar at a talk with Reaction Engines some years ago (they're aiming for hypersonic hydrogen fueled air/space craft). The answer I got was the embrittlement is worse with pure hydrogen but having some impurities in the hydrogen feed can reduce/prevent embrittlement (ISTR they said oxygen in the mix, but it was a long time ago now). I think the embrittlement is also worse at/near room temperature, so might be less of an issue for a rocket engine where the hydrogen is either cryogenic or very hot, but might be more of an issue long term in heavy plant such as this. Be interesting to hear how they've designed it out and/or what the long term failure rate of the engines will be.
@@digitalimager4946 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_embrittlement
This is a super interesting video and congratulations to JCB for their hard work. I am in Australia and would like to see you develop in Australia as well. Well done Harry
Thanks for doing these videos Harry. I'm really interested in what the future holds and I found the first video to be very informative. This one is a great follow-up.
I have a JCB backhoe 214 excellent
Allis Chalmers had a hydrogen fuel cell farm tractor experiment in 1954.
Excellent 👍 Cheers
Fantastic video Harry. This is fascinating and hats off to JCB for their work on this. Realistically, this seems like the future rather than batteries and EVs.
Congratulations to Lord Bamford, for the foresight into using hydrogen.
And the engineers at JCB in making it work.
Great program Harry
Lord Bamford. A forward thinking man. Respect
excellent explanation of the tech, and JCB are brilliant (despite Lord B!)
Great video Harry. One of the best. Thank god we have people like Lord Bamford and his chaps. I have no doubt they are treading the right path. Great stuff. Keep us updated👍
Excellent video. I am more than encouraged by this example of excellence.
On a tour of the Cummings factory 20 years ago they said that they believed if an engineer could come up with a commercially viable method for storing gas in a similar volume as diesel in a compact size they would be billionaires.
It is certainly an interesting direction along with the CNH methane engines it will be interesting to see the true viability in the sector as a lot is certainly going to depend on infrastructure especially given how a lot of locals view planning applications for such things .
Storin g high pressure hydrogen is an expensive and dangerous business. That is why hydrogen has not caught on in cars and won't catch on in tractors either.
Cummins are already building Hydrogen engines too. Interesting to see it develop.
Dacia have Duel Fuel, LPG & petrol. The LPG tank is fitted in space for spare wheel. LPG is good value and gives good mileage.
Fantastic video. I love how enthusiastic and excited the JCB engineers are about the project.
At a cost of £15 per litre- at today’s prices hydrogen will cost £150 per day. At £20 per hour + overheads an excavator driver might cost £240. The hydrogen is not insignificant, but it is not going to dominate the cost of doing a job with an off-road vehicle.
I can see this being adopted for work in ULEZ zones, and spreading out from there.
Great progress from JCB, hopefully other manufacturers will take it up to, especially the truck industry.
Fantastic video keep this kind of content coming
Absolutely superb work from JCB Harry. And thank you for that insightful video.
A superb post there Harry. It strikes me again having watched the previous video two years ago that Lord Bamford is an amazing chap. I really hope all JCB’s R&D efforts can win the day commercially. I do have my concerns about Hydrogen production but hopefully they know something that we don’t.
Fingers crossed that if there’s a Part 3 to this story that the final outcome is a good one
30.000 farms and temporary building sites putting in hydrogen storage and safety facilities.....you really think that's viable?
It won't win. Hydrogen combustion engines are about 20-25% efficient. Hydrogen fuel cell engines, anywhere between 40-60%. Only one technology will prevail.
@@StevenLangdale
You’d better get in touch and tell JCB then, it’s no good telling me
This is a Real Big Feather in the Cap of ""British Engineering"" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Gives a Feeling of Pride !!!!!! Good On Ya JCB and Sir Bamford and All the Team.
Though i believe CAT has a Hydro engine for many years
This is an excellent video, as a diesel engineer im watching the hydrogen world with a keen eye.
I do wonder what the crash protection of the storage tanks is like, 350bar is a huge amount of pressure to let go.
The huge RPM of the turbocharger makes me wonder if that's a single point of failure.
some turbos already spin at 280,000 in petrol engines , Diesels spin slower ,i think what they have achieved is a turbo that spins very quickly at low engine revs but not a turbo that spins any faster than a petrol turbo .
I think you have probably seen a turbo glowing red/white hot and still run reliably ,I think a few revs will not do any harm. Also I have drove gas Scania,s with carbon tanks on the sides with no issues.
Loved the video. Thank you Harry JCB and the pooch.
That almost sounds like a diesel engine to me. Going to be interesting to see this develop.
This is the best vid you have done so far Harry. Well done to you and even more so to JCB.
Very exciting. Im delighted to see such a big company is pushing for this technology. it wont be today or tomorrow that we will see it perfect but you have got to start somewhere. Just like the first ICE engines they weren't perfect and took awhile to get to where they re today. please bring more videos like this. Loved watching this.
Thank you Harry. A fascinating Video. I really feel this should be the future for powering many of our vehicles and machines.
Great video, Harry, and a good follow up to your July 2021 video. It is so disappointing that the British Government seems to be totally focused on electric as the only solution to meeting zero emissions in spite of all its well recognised shortcomings. Maybe we should all be writing to our MPs to wake them up to alternatives such as this one you have highlighted here. Keep this stuff coming!
The government are a waste of space. They’re only looking out for themselves - it’s got to be up to industry (and companies like JCB) to sort this out. Just have to sort out hydrogen infrastructure.
Also they seem to believe against the expert opinion that hydrogen will replace domestic gas boilers and hobs. Hydrogen is a difficult gas to contain and pipework in ground just not practical. Also problem of nox being produced in kitchens
@@caterthun4853 Biogas answers that its Methane (natural gas) produced by a biodigester fed with food and animal waste. Not only producing gas but high quality natural (odour free) fertiliser/compost as well. No more complaining neighbours to the farmer next door for slurry/muck heap spreading. Already producing it here and feeding it into the gas network.
@@caterthun4853 can you clarify your statement? I think you missed a 'not' somewhere.
Electric cooking is the way to go. Combusting piped hydrogen in the home would be nuts.
@@brushlessmotoring He's referring to biomethane where you clean-up the methane coming from a digester and pump it into the mains-gas network, however looking at it purely from a financial perspective it makes more sense to use the dirty methane in a compatible generator rather than spending money on cleaning it up to mains-gas standards. One answer though is to use a cleaner feedstock in the digester such as grass (which in turn can be fed by the compost left over)
Thanks Harry; congratulations to JCB, but without your presentation people like me would not know about it.
I love this, but no one talks about the loss of hydrogen while the equipment is unused, due to the pressure tank needing to relieve pressure as the tank warms up.
it's just the angel's share, works wonders for Whisky. Vintage Hydrogen anyone?
As systems are refined the small problems will be resolved. Everyone slating hydrogen are the same as people slating electric vehicles 10 years ago. Conventional ICE engines are safer & more efficient than they were 10 years ago. Investment drives innovation.
Absolutely brilliant video Harry, thanks for that.
It takes 50 kWh of electricity to produce 1kg of hydrogen from pure water.
On that basis a hydrogen vehicle is about as energy efficient as an electric vehicle.
@@wibblywobblyworldofboats6254 err no. a hydrogen car will go about 60 miles on 1kg of hydrogen, A modern electric car will go about 180 miles on 50 kWh.
@@kevinashurst634 do your research a little more thoroughly and I think you will come to a different conclusion 🧐
@@wibblywobblyworldofboats6254 I have, please explain how a hydrogen car is as efficient as an EV?
@@kevinashurst634 it's plainly obvious that you're working from figures that have been pulled from the first page of Google. 🙈
I give up.
Hello Harry. It's the way to go. We have a cement plant near us. They used to have electric shovels. They were the 110 RB Ruston Bucyrus. They were plugged in to a powerplant, a large generator witch were Diesel engines and they were very iffishant for a big tracked excavator that moved Hundreds of tons of rock every day.
Really interesting video Harry! Hydrogen seems an easier shift, than the use of batteries for our bigger kit 😊
Yes, hydrogen for jcb's upwards and battery's for everything else
Fascinating thanks Harry. Nice to see a British company making waves. Though i dont doubt other engine manufacturers are doing the same research. Would be nice to see it taken to the next level of power generation.
You might think they are making waves. They are not. All they are doing is showing their inability to get away from outdated ICE technology.
Great video, and great efforts by JCB. Could be interesting to learn more about the efficiency comparisons with Fuel Cells. Historically FuelCells have been more efficient. As a side note it is interesting to see that the drive to hydrogen in Construction Industry is driven by Historic Racing entusiast Lord Bamford. Our company Applied Hydrogen doing similar work but with Fuel Cells are also run by Historic Motorsport enthusiasts. We bring the world forward with our passion.
Fab video. Loved the blend of tech with your common sense approach and that we need diversity when it comes to energy sources and applications.
I worry about the storage of Hydrogen as it is kept around 350 > 700 Bar. I foresee nasty tank explosions in the early days of this gas being deployed on sites and farms. You're a brave man standing that close to the tanks.
I agree charging battery-based building site or farm machines in remote areas is not going to work in many cases.
But we must not forget that once you produce this gas, compress it, transport it, and burn it in an engine, you only get around 28% of the energy you put in at the start. So everything we can electrify we should for sure before reaching for Hydrogen.
I agree for some long lorry/truck trips that have to be over 400 miles or long-distance shipping, then Hydrogen is one of the only options. But there are plenty of lorry routes under 400 miles where an electric truck will work fine. The Regen braking on a battery lorry will re-capture up to 20% of the energy on a typical run and do over 90% of the stopping work, whereas a Hydrogen lorry would need to apply the old style brakes, which need replacing just like diesel trucks, thus still generating brake dust.
I am sad, Harry, that you dismissed the work of Tesla, and the Tesla Semi, a large full truck capable of up to 425 miles at full load (37 tons). This could replace many routes in the UK and is 90% more efficient than any Hydrogen truck can ever be. Also, engines that burn fuel or gas still need oil changes and new parts as you found out, producing parts has a carbon impact at every service interval. Electric motors do not, and the battery can be recycled at the end of its life.
As you say, it needs to be a multi-pronged approach.
Thanks for the video and for getting us debating.
Great to see another person flagging the Hydrogen Hierarchy- its uses should be limited to specific industries due to its incredibly inefficient production.
Batteries may be viable for small vehicles and even trucks, as you have pointed out with your example of a Tesla semis, I just don't see them replacing diesel engines in the huge machines used in constructions and the mining industry. Unless geniuses out there come up with a light batteries, diesel will still be the energy source for heavy duty works and if governments ban diesel then hydrogen may become a viable alternative. The fact that the tesla semi is still not yet in production four or five years after Musk showed it off to the public says it all really. I will be convinced of its viability once I see a tesla semi pull 30 tons and achieve range greater than 700 miles.
You’re delusional if you think electric equipment & batteries won’t require maintenance or replacement
I agree a multi approach,,, and I can see why you would be hesitant about Hydrogen tanks, but have you thought about the fire hazard of the kind of battery being proposed for a 40ton truck.. If that battery self ignites it will be weeks before it can be put out.. No there is no easy solution,and EVs are certainly not the all in one option.
@@masaukochitsamba7808 Mines started changing to electric machinery in late 21 - one of the huge advantages: no exhaust fumes in underground tunnels..
Fantastic-This country does still matter and this work by JCB proves that-simply fantastic...
I really enjoyed this. This sounds really promising and I hope this can find its way into all sorts of vehicles. EV, hydrogen and alternative fuels is a well rounded approach to sorting the issue.
As an ex-HGV driver for DHL on the Perkins Diesel Engine(Peterborough)contract When I first started as a agency driver 1 of 10 or 12 a week all we did was take trailer loads 5/6(25-30) engines a day to the Rocester factory off the A50 I have spent hours of my life sat in Old truck seats waiting for the pratt in an office to deside that this load is just in time I have known Turkish drivers to sit outside Perkins factory for 5 days waiting to be tipped
Really love the video Harry, and the eagerness to learn about modern tech, and show it to us!. Going to get a lot of hate for this one, but I really want to be convinced hydrogen is better than BEV, especially for these applications, but unfortunately the physics of hydrogen really isn't working in my brain. I'm not blinded by the electric/diesel/hydrogen side of the fence, but you really can't beat the numbers, and ultimately consumers will buy what's cheapest to run, and what is the best experience.
Off the napkin maths from their H2 numbers seems to suggest that the first tractor shown only uses about 250kWh a day worth of Hydrogen? In that size of machinery, 250kWh worth of battery capacity is child's play... and that's on current chemistry not future. Of course that may not be possible to charge overnight in all locations, and whilst most locations could, the same 'diesel bowser' approach applies, where a MWh scale battery can be located to site in exactly the same way, at a MUCH lower unit cost. We already use high-power feeds for sites in most examples anyway, so the work is almost already done for us. For every 1 tanker of diesel delivered now, you'd need 6 of them for hydrogen because of its energy density - that sounds like a lot of disruption to me for no cost benefit.
The reason BEVs have won over H2 in cars are because they provide a superior user experience, not because they're green. Whether that's the experience of the drivetrain or the cost of operation. To me, JCB bragging that this will be indistinguishable from a diesel experience is their biggest problem, there's absolutely no incentive for the user to move other than the flamboyant choice of paint colour.
The fundamental vehicle architecture needs to change to take full advantage of each fuel type (like where ground-up BEVs are much, much better than ICE conversions, so same goes here - they should look completely different to conventional designs), and since the user experience with H2 isn't better, and for it to be sustainable all H2 must come from renewable energy anyway, physics is screaming for us to cut out the useless middleman. The promise of green H2 really does feel like the gateway to blue/grey H2 which is just burning gas - bringing us back to square 1 (I fear this is the idea all along anyway). I understand that JCB want to reuse as much of their sunk capital in diesel development as possible, which makes sense for their business, but in terms of the technology it's just all wrong.
I think the bottom line is that for every 1 wind turbine or solar panel needed to power BEV machinery, there needs to be 2 or 3 for H2, that means at least double the land use, double the capital investment, and double the unit cost for the same output. That seems to be the fundamental floor that H2 can never overcome. Whilst we need to explore every new technology to reduce our impact, like this one, it needs to be better and cheaper for the user, and if it's not it's time to move to the next. The numbers don't lie, and the market will weed out the worst technologies either way...
Yep. I'm working on hydrogen for aviation applications at the moment, and for that specific use case hydrogen makes more sense than batteries for the foreseeable future. But that's due to a set of challenges that don't apply for ground vehicles. Maybe these bits of heavy machinery are a borderline case with current battery tech, I imagine JCB have run the numbers and won't argue with them! But I can't see that lasting long term.
Hydrogen cars and hydrogen for home heating are totally impractical, and always will be. It just isn't going to happen, batteries and heat pumps are going to win because they're superior in every way, especially with developments currently coming down the pipe for batteries.
I'm a proponent of hydrogen in the small number of applications where it makes sense. But a lot of time and money is being wasted around the world working on sticking hydrogen in places it has no business being, because it's an easy way to extract money from powerful people who buy into the marketing and don't understand the reality behind it all.
@@GoogleAreDumb Well said - both you and James - spot on. It is indeed about digging for subsidies, not subsidizing diggers.
@@brushlessmotoring i love that line ^^ can i steal it for a presentation i need to do next week?? ;-)
JCB claim "batteries don't work for heavy plant" but it just doesn't wash with me, there are three main drawbacks compared to existing ICE solutions:
1) they claim weight is an issue - why then do things like 360 excavators, quarry trucks, tractors and dozzers all carry extra mass in the form of huge cast iron counter/balance weights? Just replace those with the batteries?
2) Recharging times - simply make the battery pack demountable. Pretty easy on a large heavy plant machine, when it's flat just go pick up a full one, the packs can be charged off the vehicle if that vehicle needs to work 24/7
3) cost - this is really the true reason. If you already have a logistics and supply chain to support the ICE powertrain, then yes, it is indeed expensive to replace that with one for batteries and motors. However those costs are falling markedy. Most OEM passcar studies suggest cost parity (at volume equivalence) within a couple of years. There is also the not inconsiderable potential (sic) for EOL battery sales to recoup significant proportion of the inital battery cost for second life applications (a worn out diesel engine worth just scrap value, a worn out battery still has significant value)
@@maxtorque2277 more than welcome to nick that one :) is your presentation public? Do share.
12:30 if you are running high pressure high temperature like any other ICE what about NOx? Do you still have a catalyser? How does it work with the lack of any carbon in the combustion?
I can't help feeling this could all go very wrong and bankrupt JCB. It's a high risk strategy and I hope it works out.
Big investors have decided that electric will be out future. Because they can make so much money out of it!
This country, like all western nations is already bankrupt. I don't think jcb will go bankrupt though, as the jcb plant in India can continue to manufacture derv power plants and trade with the new emerging markets in the east , collectively known as " Brics". Unfortunately the site at uttoxeter would have to close !
Of course this could be avoided if net zero was abolished , it is after all a , Teresa May initiative.
Hugh risk high reward. Its ballsy but true innovators have big ones!
Don't see it being such a huge risk. It's not like a whole new line has been set up.
What’s the efficiency of the engine compared to a motor?
A very silly idea.
Using even blue hydrogen saves no CO2. Green hydrogen is super expensive.
That is besides the fact that the only decent way to use hydrogen is via fuel cell and electric.
Madness.
This is an incredible development and a real practical solution to excavation equipment and I would have thought transferable to lorries and buses. Plus it’s great British innovation. Great job, now just need the hydrogen network.
Very interesting video Harry! Fantastic to see how fast their progress has been going. But I think batteries biggest advantage over hydrogen is still the price. it's just so much cheaper and most of the problems with long charging can be done with battery swap or fast charging. Anyway its great either way which will be used :)
Can you provide a reference on your "Cheaper" claim?
@@bru512 Sure. it will depend on different markets. but with batteries charged from solar/wind directly it is about 3 cents or less. from the grid it would be between 10 and 20 cents(depending on where). batteries will have a cost of about 2-10 cents over lifetime. so with this its is between 2-5 times cheaper than diesel or hydrogen at its current state
and even with only fast charging its still cheaper at about 3-5 cents per kwh
@@bru512 a 3 pin cost about £100 to put in.
The cheapest hydrogen fuel pump is about $2000000
And you can't really drop the price per mile below £0.15 per mile, (if fuel was free)
Very informative video. Hope JCB will sort out some standardization of parts for these new hydrogen vehicles so that those purchasing second hand equipment in future are able to service them and obtain parts. It's important also that those with older JCB diesel engine machines do not get forgotten and can continue to service and repair their vehicles. There are various interesting videos on TH-cam regarding John Deere's attitude towards the right to repair.
There is no known path to get hydrogen anywhere near cost-parity to diesel. It's like saying "When we develop fusion, electricity will be too cheap to meter." Well, yeah, but we don't know how to do fusion commercially, just like we can't make and transport green hydrogen in anything near a cost-effective manner. Diesel is a major cost of farming on a large scale. Hydrogen would make farmers go broke and people go hungry.
We've gotta start somewhere mate. There was probably people saying the same thing about petrol/diesel with the first combustion engines. Before Fuel tankers, oil rigs and petrol stations. They didn't just build that infrastructure stuff for fun before the combustion engine
I sure did learn a lot. This was really is and important education. No Carbon. Thanks
Working on the edge of the development of bio-hydrogen technologies, it's great to see the other end of the hydrogen fuel system so well developed - this will push others in the sector significantly I hope.
Really good video, thank you.
14:30 Very impressive how JCB can reduce the compression ratio while increasing the boost on lean burn , and still match the torque curve of a Diesel. Most other ICE hydrogen engines are well down on the fossil fuels power due to the low density of the fuel.
Very interesting! Kudos to JCB for making the investment and sharing it with you.
Perhaps a fuel for the bigger family cars as well in the future?
Thanks Harry, a fascinating insight to the future by a UK company.. Well done JCB, incredible R&D.
Love the video, but something doesn’t add up. They said the machine hold 6-10kg of hydrogen. Now hydrogen contain around 3 times more energy than diesel in a kg for kg comparison. Now they also said the efficiency is about the same , which makes sense as the are both using combustion. But a tractor store 300 to 500L and some days that is not enough to go a full day. With the hydrogen we would then have to refil 10 times in one day! Also the well to wheel efficiency of burning hydrogen is just pathetic 😅
I was trying to work out how many kWh of battery you would need for half a day of operating, with a battery swap between shifts ... I think it's 200kWh, same as the Hummer EV battery pack, and then use the battery mass as a counterweight. Charge one while you are using another.
A 300hp tractor pulling a cultivator would burn 50L an hour. That’s the same as 600kwh, worth in diesel. Since a electric drivetrain is around 4 times more efficient we would need use 150kWh every hour 😅
@@Homegaarden that sounds right. For a car, it's about 2.5kWh of electricity per L of gasoline to go the same distance, you have it at 3kWh per L, I could see the efficiency of a diesel engine making up the difference. A hydrogen fuel cell can go 100km on 1kg, an EV uses 18kWh, a Civic 7.2L of gasoline. Hydrogen combustion is less efficient than a fuel cell.
You are not going to replace a 350L diesel tank with a 1000kWh battery, some compromise needs to be made, and run time is it. Swapping allows minimal downtime, and also allows the replaced battery some time to charge back up again. It will probably be no different to the hydrogen refill timing based on a 6-10kg tank, and probably be quicker too - at best a tank to tank transfer can equalize the pressure of both tanks, but you need a compressor to fully empty the source tank.
Electricity will be 10 times cheaper than hydrogen.
I noticed that the operative demonstrating the hose connection and tank filling was wearing gloves. Just how cold do the nozzle and hoses get I wonder?
Harry what is the price difference between the diesel and hydrogen engines ,? Also have watched both videos and found them extremely informative hope there will be a follow up . Well done jcb
As I see it, the cost of the engine tech is infinitesimal compared to production, transport and then storing it again on site.. The big difference is: both farmers and building sites have the need to store fuel in site. Easy with a few removable bunded poly tanks. Now consider the situation with hydrogen.....its not going to happen - is it, not without a prohibitive install cost.
Is the uk government watching ?
@@Kaltybean are they heck. There in endless meetings - many in up market hotels outside of the M25 working on schemes to funnel tax payers money into companies that they're 'consultant directors' of. That was the core reason behind HS2
It seems JCB is doing an amazing hydrogen engineering enabling heavy machinery to become green and sustainable in the future. Thank you for bringing this great video!
Hymn, We have to diversify and explore every avenue when it comes to energy, but as far as Hydrogen is concerned there are two huge obstacles to overcome, cost of production and storage. Understandably Bamford is creating a big spin on this , but considering he is a close friend and leading sponsor of Borris Johnson, I wouldn’t necessarily believe all what he says.
Extraordinary Harry! Have you ever thought of testing a fuel cell to generate electricity on your farm? It was state of the art clean energy production when I attended Penn State for Architectural Engineering from 1998-2001.