What Will Nikon Do with Red?!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มี.ค. 2024
- The bombshell that Nikon Cameras have said they will buy the California company Red Digital Cinemas Cameras has shook the photography & videography world and has everyone speculating on what it means. Nikon has saved itself with the release of its Z9 and Z8 cameras and seems like a company on the rise after nearly losing it all with their late and weak entry into the mirrorless camera world. Before we go forward lets take a look back at what got us here. Then talk about what they will do with the RF mount and compressed RAW patents.
#cinemacameras #mirrorlesscameras
Website(buy some swag!)
Fitzwater-Photography.com
Blog:
zippercityphotography.blogspot...
Analog Instagram:
/ fitzwateranalog
Photography IG:
/ fitzwaterphoto
Cycling TH-cam Channel:
/ @timfitzwater
Flickr - Images in Quality:
www.flickr.com/photos/timjayf...
came for the perspective, stayed for the cat fail
lol! I wish I thought quick enough to capture it on my phone. They are 5 foot panels!
Both companies will benefit Nikon silicon processors are more advanced than what Red is using . Red has sensor designs that would improve Nikon’s hybrid line . Also maybe some mid priced video cameras to compete with using Red colour codecs and luts will be highly desirable,
Right on. 💯
Canon also had a leg up into the mirrorless world with their M line. I think it was the M50 that everyone loved so much because of the great auto focus in video mode. A lot of TH-camrs used that camera even if they shot Nikon. Nikon didn't really have good auto focus for video until the d780 and the z6/z7 cameras. The z8, z9 and zf have great video now. Some of that may be improved later with firmware updates. The firmware is only limited by the hardware and storage capacity in the camera for software. There's no telling what these cameras are really capable of. I think Nikon buying Red was a good move. And i think if we had really paid attention to what was going on with the lawsuit we may have figured out what was really happening. We just assumed they had reached a deal and Nikon would have to pay for the codec in every camera. As far as people saying Nikon was going to go bankrupt, yes some TH-camrs said that but Nikon owns other things besides cameras. A lot of their stuff is industrial. I switched from Canon to Nikon nearly 5 years ago. I currently own a z6 II and a z8. Nikon has the closest phlange distance of any camera and probably the largest full frame mount. Most Nikon lenses have little to no focus breathing and chromatic aberration. They use silent motors for the auto focus for video. I think Nikon is making a strong comeback.
For sure - the M line were good cameras - they sold especially well in Japan.
Nikon is a large company but there is no doubt there sales were heading very quickly in the wrong direction. Nikon is not as diversified as some of the other brands even though they do make other things.
I do believe Nikon's AF may be limited in the older cameras because of the hardware - I feel if it wasn't they would have implemented better firmware already. I don't feel Nikon is going the Canon route of intentionally crippling any of their hardware.
The thing is with the settlement we can't know more about the lawsuit - it just isn't public information. Same with Red's numbers - they aren't publicly traded. Maybe they were struggling and Nikon picked them up for a steal? We don't know.
Nikon is making a huge comeback and I agree - this should be a good move.
I'm all for it - strong competition is better for all of us.
@fitzwaterphotography9971 strong competition makes everyone better. Us z6 II users have been disappointed that we never got the firmware update to really make our cameras what we thought they should be. Hardware is the problem. That's why I bought a z8. And I'm just a hobbyist.
@@carlmcneill1139how do you like the Z8?
@barrycomer3688 I love it! It's everything I wanted in a camera. I don't even use video. I hate the EVF blackout in burst mode on my z6 II. The focus tracking is on on it but nothing like the z8. And the latest firmware update for bird tracking is awesome. It's a lot better than the animal detect mode. I'm still learning it. I went to a high school basketball game and stood courtside and took photos just trying to figure out what worked best. And last weekend I went to a college baseball game and took photos behind the back stop. I had to shoot through the netting but I got some great shots. Even at 2p fps is really hard to time it to get the ball in contact with the bat. I even tried 30 fps in jpg and they came out looking good. One thing I learned about it and Lightroom, make sure you go into the preferences in Lightroom and change it to use the camera settings on import. Adobe will make high ISO photos look like a hot mess. The camera settings work best. I also have the 180-600mm lens and use it for wildlife. I got my first owl photo and some shots of my first otter in the same day
Maybe during the lawsuit Nikon got a glimpse into Red’s financial situation, realized they were vulnerable and made them a big offer?
No idea if they would see that kind of info in this kind of lawsuit but it is possible. Its kind of funny to think they had this lawsuit then all got along and made a deal!
I think Nikon wanted Sony Global Shutters. But Sony did not want to sell A9iii Global Shutter sensor to Nikon until maybe after a year or so. So Nikon got pissed and bought Red in hope to use Red's sensors.
More than likely they saw an owner that wanted to move on to other ventures and offered him a deal instead of a long long court case.
This seems to be the common thought I am seeing as well.
The lawsuit was about technology not their financials. But Nikon probably throughly investigated Red for any advantage they could find. My company regularly places moles in our competitors companies.
Like many people who came out of the still photo world, you missed a big chunk of what was happening. It was video and the inevitable rising of digital cinema. While you were caught up in still photography, Sony and Panasonic were making camcorders and early digital video, including broadcast equipment. I'd have to check exact dates, but if you were watching TV, maybe back around 1990's, Sony and its affiliates ("Columbia" as in CBS TV) was a part of what you were seeing. Combining the Minolta photographic development stream with Sony's video and broadcast television development streams gave them their basis to "go anywhere" in these fields.
This is good information so thanks but I'm not sure "I missed it". For a 10 minute YT video on Nikon I think there was enough relevant history - I don't mention Arri or many other digital innovators - its a summary and I think enough was there.
Also - its not just that I come from the stills world but that I graduated highschool in 1997. 🥸
97 you say? Ah.... your just a young upstart!!! Lol.@@fitzwaterphotography9971
I've been a Nikon user since the F3 days and come to this topic from a stills perspective. I think Nikon did buy Red for their sensor and codec technology. I'm excited to see those techs integrated into the Nikon Z series. Especially for the dynamic range of the Red sensors. You're right about a Nikon cinema lens line. It's coming and Red cameras will be available with the Z mount. But the R mount won't be dropped. How sweet for Nikon and frustrating for Canon to know that each R mount cinema lens sale puts money in Nikons pocket. And now that Red has access to Nikon R&D money there is no telling what innovations those crazy Red people will come up with! And Nikon will hold the patents for it. This is going to be an interest ride.
Yup! It’s exciting. I’m a Canon user(for digital) but a strong Nikon and competition is good for all of us.
BIG CORRECTION: The first DSRL that could shoot video is the Nikon D90, not the Canon 5D.
Thanks for the correction. Buuut….the second part of the sentence is what mattered - the first one that people seriously used to shot video.
The second part of the sentence is independent of the wrong fact you were trying to expose for your video.
Do better research.
Dude - it is completely inconsequential to the subject matter. Nikon failed in video for a decade and no one took them seriously - first or not. I try to get things right - I'm not perfect. I see you have zero videos on your channel - have you ever attempted to do something like this? I had under 500 subscribers on this channel before this video - there is no research team over here - I do my best. And the D90 still doesn't matter compared to the 5DII.
I only have 400 and some subs on my channel and I've been at it for years. You have my utmost respect!!! I wish you well my friend..... God bless, and thanks for the valuable info!@@fitzwaterphotography9971
Excellent analysis, and I like your DA2 ;))
Thanks and so awesome you recognized that! The F3 was in a closet at a school with a 300mm lens - must have been a sports shooter's for the school. A teacher friend gave it to me.
I think that RED benefits from Nikon's manufacturing prowess. RED also will benefit from Nikon's lens designs and glass. Finally for RED they will be able to use Nikon's autofocus. I think Nikon will benefit from RED's global sensor, their video technology and this gives Nikon some cred in the cinema camera space. Nikon already is there with their robotics and I think they must realize that they badly missed out on video as a required aspect of modern photography. This new Nikon/RED business will take time to settle, but I think in the end this will definitely shake the industry.
Yes - it is going to be very interesting. If this is successful I even feel the Red branding may disappear down the road.
I do think it would be wise of them to keep the Red name and their company culture if possible.
@@fitzwaterphotography9971
Thanks for the content. Nikon's mirrorless products would benefit from the RED acquisition codec and color science. RED could benefit from a better autofocus system similar to the Sony Burano. Mutually, Nikon could sell more glass. The marketplace for content & film production is becoming more crowded. There are no bad camera anymore, phones all the way up to cinema cameras. Which has kinda makes camera a commodity at this stage. Margins are shrinking on the camera and client side of the equation. The deeper dollars of parent company could be useful for RED as R&D is the lifeblood.. Equally, the acquisition could be a golden parachute for the owners.
Nikon still has an formidable uphill battle to gain more market share. Sony and Canon are well entrenched with good products (camera's and lenses). ARRI is still dominate in the cinema production business. Nikon would really need to create a compelling product proposition to encourage a heap of people to abandoned their current camera/lens ecosystem. In the commercial space, name cache remains a useful sales tool. The Nikon is the first name that pops up in popularity.
With Nikon being a public company, what is their pain threshold for bleeding edge tech? Will the internal economics and company ethos demand that RED I.P. be gutted and transplanted to consumer products that sell in the hundreds of thousands vs to the niche cinema production market. My last Nikon product was the D90. My journey has taken me to Canon, Sony and RED. With me finally settling on Sony and RED as my production tools.
I hope any future disruption will be market positive. RED, albeit not perfect, has keenly stayed focused on providing the highest quality image capture from their camera lineup. So, yeah, I hope nothing crazy happens.
Thanks for the super insightful and interesting comment! It is going to be a fascinating ride.
Nikon could have bought them for the tech, as you suggest.
Nikon was never 'on the brink' as you put it. A few TH-camrs made some hay by claiming that was the case. The period from 2012-2018 was bad for all established camera companies, with competition from smart phone tech resulting in a significant decline in sales for them. However, during this time Nikon released many great cameras such as the D850 and D5 which sold well enough. They had a flat spot with their early Z mount releases, but hit pay dirt with the Z9 and Z8 and a range of superlative glass.
They were down to 3% market share. They were going in the wrong direction for sure. Their last flagship dslr was the D6 and it was a joke. There is no way it sold well. Nikon was on death watch.
I simply disagree.
Any dude with a beard that also owns a cat - must be a pretty alright kind'a guy! I subscribed!!! Now, on your next video show us the cat.... lol.
Uh oh. I just shaved. I’ll double down on the cat footage!
alwsome insights, although i don't think the global shutter sensor is a major factor when Nikon purchased red. 1. the sensor is super expensive too expensive even for professional photographers. 2.the electronic shutter reads out fast enough so the advantage of the global sensor is not that big, with the extremely high price it is arguably going to be a disadvantage for 99.999% of people. i think Nikon is just trying to catch up to Sony and canon's cinema line-up
Thanks. You could be right.
I'd have to say though they could be looking to the future - does the price of a global shutter sensor go way down when scaling up the manufacturing? Medium format sensors used to be the price of a nice car.
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 yes, my opinion on the global sensor and electronic snesor comes from the pedapixel podcast there was one episode where they discused this global shutter vs electronic sensor situation. Although global sensor would be absolutely fantastic though. And there are substitutes like a real shutter or a leaf shutter system. at the current stage i would choose a z9 vs the global sensor Sony just because of the dynamic range but i will definitely pick up a global sensor Nikon if the price is right and once the dynamic range problem is solved
Side question. I watched your video about the canonet 28 . In my case I'm using 1.5 v battery. Will it over expose or under expose ? Should I compensate with iso?
That is the problem from what I understand- you can’t be sure as the voltage isn’t even. They still sell replacements on Amazon that work - best to just order a couple.
A lot of Nikon’s recent Z glass is breathing controlled and has very flexible linear focus modes. Plus there’s excellent E to Z adapters available which opens up all those cine lenses in the near term. But there’s only one question that really matters, “Can Nikon hold onto enough Red design and engineering talent to keep the division viable in the mid to long term?” Impossible to know at this stage, but as a complete outsider who doesn’t know the players and who has been through acquisitions over the years, the odds are always against success. For instance, Red will never have the same swagger and clout in the industry again. Neither Sony nor Canon are afraid of Nikon.
Interesting perspective and one I hadn’t thought about. I think so much depends on what moves and how quickly Nikon makes them. I’ve definitely seen those cases where people jump ship and start their own thing - that being said it has to be extremely expensive and difficult to start camera companies. I don’t rule out the chance that some people think Nikon making a big investment is a good thing. We will see!
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 In a company as small as Red, you only have to lose a few key people who really understand the innards of the products and the division will struggle. And unlike the examples I’ve seen mentioned of Minolta and Hasselblad-both of which were floundering when acquired-Red is at the top of their game with the new VistaVision global shutter cameras. In the former cases the remaining employees feel vindicated and it’s easy to inject a new corporate culture into a struggling organization, but I tend to suspect Red employees will feel chastened and put upon by their new bosses. Plus Sony and Canon and maybe ARRI as well will want access to the engineering expertise at Red. This is the perfect time to head hunt and cripple a competitor. Nikon will have their hands full.
Red is now backed by major Japanese capital. A stronger red is good.
Again - you may be right - we will see. I'm just speculating like everyone else. Red isn't publicly traded so we don't know how successful they are.
Since the deal has not yet been finalized, I would not be surprised if other suiters come out of the woodwork. I've seen it happen with other mergers and acquisitions when it becomes public knowledge a company is for sale, then other companies will up the bid. The selling company will take the highest bid and most of the purchase contracts I've seen have an "out" where the deal is not binding until all is approved and the deal is finalized.
I do know what you are talking about but I don't believe that is the case here. Red also put out a release. Why would Nikon put out the release if they felt like that may happen? I feel that the deal is finalized and just needs some t's crossed and i's dotted.
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 I hope the deal goes through. I believe it will be good for the industry and Nikon can offer an infusion of cash to RED R&D. I've seen some deals fall apart when both parties had the ink pens in hand. I sure hope that does not happen here.
a LOT of the Z lenses are nearly par focal and have limited breathing. Makes me wonder if the big Z mount on RED would be decent.
I think it will - they just need to fill out the line up - and none are true cinema lenses yet. Canon has RF mount cinema lenses with the features cinematographers and camera operators expect.
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 You mean like the one with the Power Zoom attachment? I guess. I've seen a ton of cine's using Sigma 18-35 F1.8's without those features, too. I'm sure more specific lenses will come, as you say. Personally I want the 35mm F1.2 to exist !
No. Canon has a line of true cinema glass in the RF mount. They have T-stops and true cinema features. Totally different than the lenses people are putting on R5's and R3's - these are for the C series and Red's (or any cinema camera that can be built with RF mounts).
@@fitzwaterphotography9971ah okay, T-stops just being a more accurate depiction of light out the back of the lens; what other True Cine features, gears? I've seen lots of third party mounted on C cameras that don't have cine features.
I don't use cinema lenses because I don't own cinema cameras. I just know that people who use the big cinema cameras usually spend the money on cinema lenses - and Canon makes those and Nikon does not.
Sony make Red Cinema and Nikon sensors - the battle is on
I know they make Nikon - is it confirmed they make Red's?
Going to be interesting regardless!
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 Yes - I have been using Red since th first Red One - When we had a sensor issue on set a year or so ago - we had to get hold of Sony to sort it!!!!!
Ah cool- thanks for the info. Peta Pixel didn't even mention who made the sensors.
Nikon pulled an Adobe.
Worked for Adobe! Can’t beat em buy em! 🤷🏻♂️
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 Used Adobe for 30 years. They will do anything to slow down innovation. When they see it elsewhere they buy and kill it.
I'm no Adobe fan boy but as a pro it is still the best we have. When I am editing a video in Premiere and need to adjust a photo and dynamic link makes it happen seamlessly from Photoshop that is time and money in my pocket. They have also finally sped up the timeline and their transcript editing is amazing. Again - Adobe can drive me crazy but it is the best option as a hybrid shooting pro.
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 I agree. There is no competition. I just wished a company that size would invest in modernizing their software-like spending a fraction of their advertising budget on developing teams would be desirable.
it would cripple cannon given that red cut deals with them and have rf mount
Tbh i wouldnt want to see that even tho im not a canon guy. Reds have so much cine lens options w RF than with nikon which is 0. IF they change it for a PL mount thats okay! But not to nikon .
Not sure it would cripple Canon. I would love to see the numbers but I’m guessing sales of RF lenses to Red users is a fraction of the RF sales. Way more people are using actual Canons than Red’s.
The change would definitely be eventual - as mentioned Nikon would need to get lenses out first. I believe they are capable of it.
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 i mean sure but to make every focal length in different T stops , anamorphic , cine zooms , anamorphic zooms And so on. That would take many years
@@poti732 For sure. That’s part of why it’s all so interesting.
Canon should buy Red that would solve a lot of problems except for Nikon of course.
Canon has renowned color science, global shutter patents and a built out cinema line - they are fine were they are.
Canon buys ARRI 😂
That would be amazing!🤩
🤣
Maybe Fuji will buy Kodak!….durp
change to the yellow..hehehe
No one wanted canon 4k fule size because canon had no clue and that motion JPEG file size was just too big. That's precisely one reason why 5div sucked as a video camera compared with Sony
The codec was bad - everyone knows that. It didn’t suck as a video camera though because that was its only weakness. I filmed with it for three years.
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 it also had that 4k crop. And the EOS R was better and released 2 years later and even that was criticized and did poorly for video shooters compared with Sony a7iii. That's why Canon went all in on the RF mirror less product line. It did fine for photos, though. Anyway, both Canon and Nikon abandoned DSLR subsequently, that should tell you enough that for video, not only 5div did poorly but also strategically DSLR was not the way to go.
Who is arguing that mirrorless wasn't the way to go? I'm saying Cannon was already working on and implementing the tech needed for mirrorless ....and I'm right. I used the 5DIV for video professionally for years. Many cameras today still crop at 4k. The R had the exact same sensor as the 5DIV which is why I waited for the R5. I agree reviewers panned the 5DIV and it wasn't perfect - it was very good though if you didn't need 4k - I didn't need 4k. None of my clients in my market wanted it then(some don't now). A lot of us don't make Netflix content but work for local non-profits and businesses and clients don't sit around and pixel peep like us nerdy photographers and TH-camrs do. It was an great hybrid for its day and my older, commercial clients did not take a camera that looked like the Sony's seriously 6 years ago - they simply didn't look pro. Argue that point if you want but I was there. Also - Sony's battery life was a joke then(unfortunately Canon's is trash now and I have to carry a pile of batteries). I'm not a Canon fanboy - I want competition to make all cameras better.
@@fitzwaterphotography9971 Good for you the clients wanted the camera to look big and get 1080p footage. LOL. Well, there is a reason people pay up for lots of things.