Should You Take HRT After Breast Cancer? Dr Liz O'Riordan weighs In
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Do you want to know why saying “HRT is safe after breast cancer because we used to treat breast cancer with oestrogen” is wrong?
Watch this video. I’ve read the books and studies the trials that Dr Newson and Dr Bluming refer to when they make comments like this.
Here’s what you need to know:
High dose oestrogen was used to treat breast cancer
In the 1940s-70s
For women with advanced / fungating / metastatic breast cancer who are beyond treatment by surgery or radiation
Before we knew about Er Pr HER2 receptors, surgical margins, tamoxifen, immunotherapy, targeted radiotherapy…
It only slowed growth in less than half of the women
It only worked in those who WERE OVER 60
In younger women, it SPED UP GROWTH
It had hideous side effects - anorexia, vomiting, vaginal bleeding, urinary incontinence and heart failure
When Tamoxifen was first used for advanced breast cancer, (again before we knew about ER receptors), it had the same effect - slowed growth in 30% women with much better side effects. So we stopped using high does oestrogen
new evidence shows that high dose oestrogen could be used today to treat metastatic breast cancer - it ONLY works after a long period of oestrogen deprivation of several years - so after Tam/ AI etc. This massive dose appears to be toxic to some breast cancers.
I don’t think anyone could read this and then claim that HRT is safe after breast cancer - especially when oestrogen increased the growth of metastases in younger women
I had DCIS stage one. I had a lumpectomy and no lymph nodes involved. I took a hormone blocker for a year and quit. I am more concerned about my heart , brain, and bones. I want any little bit of estrogen left floating around in my body. What I really want is my hormone patch back! If I no longer remember my loved ones or how to take care of myself, no one is going to say, “well at least she still has her breasts”.
This is exactly the issue. I too have had early stage breast cancer. Double mastectomy. No lymph nodes involved. It does seem that the medical profession believes that the tiniest risk of the cancer recurring is the very worst thing that could happen to a woman...I would like to suggest that living with the very high KNOWN risks of dementia, osteoporosis, bone fractures, cardiovascular events, genito-urinary symptoms, post-menopause...with the huge loss of quality of life it entails...may for some women be of far more concern, than try to add a few more years to our lives. Beyond a certain age & stage, our lives are not only about longevity...but far more about quality. This, in my personal experience at age 56, is the huge missing piece in medicine currently. I should be allowed to take MHT if I want to. Alas, we are not there yet (at least not in Australia). Doctors will respond they are to 'do no harm'. I think we need to go back to the drawing table & ask those same doctors what they (& we as post menopausal women after breast cancer) mean by the word 'harm'.
@@juless5699 Amen
Yet Tamoxifen caused a Pulmonary embolism with me
I know a large amount of women who have survived breast cancer. Every single one of them were on hormone blockers and they are alive today but the side effects they had with the hormone blockers are also very prevalent in their “life” quality of life using these treatments need to be considered. For stage 0 or stage 1 breast cancer I do not see the benefit of these hormone blockers and unless the doctors have physically lived through it they can only look at the survival rate and not the quality of life of which the survivors had
I know women with Stage 0 and 1 disease who have died from a recurrence
breast.v3.predict.cam/tool
Latest version, version 3 of predict breast tool. Put your information in for pros/cons of treatment
Couldn’t agree more. The current “push” for HRT frightens me because I believe it may increase the numbers being diagnosed with breast cancer. Pregnancy and menopause appears to be a trigger for breast cancer (specifically triple negative). These periods are when our bodies have a change in hormones. In a very simplistic view, it would be reasonable to assume the introduction or change to hormone levels may well be a trigger.
Ok, if estrogen replacement cases breast cancer then the estrogen our ovaries create from your first menses would be seen as the culprit and all women would instantly go on hormone blockers to prevent breast cancer. You can't live in fear. Humanity would diet out if women took hormone blockers as early as 12, thereby, shortening their life and forcing them into menopause when their body is not done developing
What about the increase in life changing menopausal symptoms, heart disease and uterine cancer, plus osteoporosis when taking hormone inhibitors.
I know the symptoms and side effects can be bad. I take the hormone blockers myself. BUT HRT can increase the risk of recurrence for ER+ cancer which cannot be cured and there are lots of HRT alternatives to help with the symptoms
Thank you for your reply Liz. It's my understanding that oestrogen positive cancer can be cured, and that more women die from heart disease than breast cancer.
Heart disease risks increase when taking hormone inhibitors, along with uterine cancer.
I'm a oestrogen positive cancer patient myself. My professional Oncologist has said without any treatment my cancer has a 10% chance of recurrence.
@@DrLizORiordan Thanks for the info and share ..... firstly 'cannot be cured?' we know many that are treated/ cured?? HRT alternatives will not stop cardiovascular, dementia/ alzeimers, diabetes, bone issues depression and the list goes on. Breast cancer is the 7th killer on the list of womens health threats. Health threats that HRT will help with.
Dr Liz meant that ‘recurrent’ breast cancer - as in metastatic- cannot be cured. And she is right. Also, the list of things that kill women that may increase due to lack of oestrogen will happen many years later. Breast cancer will kill quickly and that’s why we take oestrogen blockers. We want to increase our chance of living now. Not too worried about 20 years down the track.
Thanks again for making some good points.
May I share this here with you too
x
www.womens-health-concern.org/2008/03/hrt-conflicting-reports-risk-breast-cancer-recurrence/
I am 20 years post HRT because I got breast cancer. Early stage 1. Estrogen and progesterone receptors 1cm. I took Premarin and prempro, at different times. Had chemo and then tamoxifen for around 3 years and I stopped because I learned it could cause uterine cancer…had a hysterectomy. Now 20 years later I’m back on estrodial patches.05. Per my request. My sleep is horrible, no energy, depression, you name it. If this doesn’t help I’ll stop but at 81, a young 81, I want my quality of life back! I have 5 great grandsons and I want to have energy to play with them. Wish me luck 🤞😁
Look at magnesium and vitamin d
@@intuitivediane thanks. I take magnesium at night but D in the morning,!
Bio Identical hormones are absolutely essential-- this was not made clear in the big panic about HRT when the Women's Health Initiative released a poorly done study citing that estrogen and a NON-bioidentical form of progesterone, called progestin caused cancer. See Mary Clair Haver MD specializing in women's health, and others who cite much better and recent studies supporting the use of bio identical hormone therapy for many(not all) women.
All these years, so much funding and they still really don’t have answers
We have estrogen receptors all over our body. The least rate of cancer is in pregnant women who have the most amount of estrogen in their bodies. Why are there not high rates of breast cancer in pregnant women?
Probably because of their age. A relative of mine had BC whilst pregnant though
That E and P products back then also are totally different then the newer generations of bio identicals... currently they just dont know a lot about it.. and then ofcourse most want to go the route that does have some evidence. Hopefully there will be more research about the topic in the future. Personally my life is totally useless without BI HRT. I am with the 20% horror population.. 😢.. So my heart goes out to the women who suffer and cannot use it.
Thank you for speaking out, Liz. The sort of generalisations made recently on UK morning television are a real problem if they discourage patients from following the treatment plan made for their specific situation by their own medical and oncological team. I appreciate you trying to correct lazy and dangerous assumptions about breast cancer treatment.
Thanks for taking the time to watch and comment
I dream of feeling as well and energetic as I did on HRT, but I’d never dare take it again
If you haven’t had breast cancer then it’s worth it to try it, you’ll improve your cardiovascular health, bone health and brain health.
@@elizabethmeister111 I have had breast cancer
So have I! A conundrum for sure. Have you done the BCI test?
@@elizabethmeister111 no, I had to Google what it is
How come the morning show isn’t obliged to make an official statement to clarify the medical advice given on its programme? This is incredibly dangerous to people who trust this advice
It is, and I don’t know what the answer is. Celebrity doctors on TV are automatically trusted. Some are excellent but not all of them follow the guidelines
Thank you for this. There are so many false claims out there that sometimes it's hard to sift through them to find the truth. Really appreciate your honest and frank posts both here and on other social media.
I’m getting increasingly annoyed at Zoe peddling the menopause is an oestrogen deficiency disease. And everyone needs HRT. So pleased people are speaking out .
If estrogen wasn't safe we would see breast cancer in women as young as their late teens or early 20s onward. More cases in pregnant women...
Was on HRT for 15 months after GP said my headaches were down to menopause. She sent me the Balance app (Newson) sales brochure on the wonders of HRT. 15 months later, invasive ductal carcinoma, stage1, hormone+ breast cancer, grade 2. Came off HRT straight away, 6 weeks later, lumpectomy and histology said cancer had reduced to a grade 1 slow growing. How the Newson clinic is getting away with saying oestrogen is safe is beyond me. Moreover, no mention that HRT increases breast density, which not only hides cancers, but where cancers proliferate. Follow the money.
How heartbreaking:(
Re: your last comment about HRT increasing breast density, I hadn't heard that. I did get an increase in breast density when I began drinking caffienated coffee every day in my late twenties. Now many years later, I still have the density (an am still drinking coffee daily) but thankfully zero cancer.
There are usually multiple factors behind the onset of disease, such as low immune function as one example. So many things can cause that alone.
One additional comment made by a good friend who recovered from early onset breast cancer (after a masectomy). Her question is WHY, with all the incredible amounts of money poured into finding a cure for breast cancer, has so little progress been made?
How high dose is used in high dose estrogen treatment? (I imagine it's much higher than HRT)
I don't prescribe it so I don't know. Sorry
Finally I've heard an objective, clear explanation. Thank you so much! I am a 5 year bc survivor 10 years post menopausal, bilateral sapling-oophorectomy with vaso motor and every other menopause symptom at one time or another. I am thankful my doctor dissuaded me from HRT when I was younger and quite rightly told me that it's a big business and to keep this in mind. Thankfully I am Canadian and received excellent care by physicians I could trust.
HAHA - you Canadians are tough!
Excellent information so clearly explained. Thank you once again Dr Liz.
Glad it was helpful!
i think this is still evolving in much the same way testosterone replacement in men was once definitively believed to cause prostate cancer. with the underlying theory of androgen receptors being triggered by an influx of exogenous testosterone. what the newest research shows is thst androgen defiiency or deprovation is now viewed as a risk factor than TRT treatment and TRT can actually be protective. research is always yielding new questions with as many answers.
Thanks
What are your thoughts on the Breast Cancer Index Test and how it predicts your chance of reoccurrence?
Dr Bluming quotes many other studies in his book supporting his claim, targeting mainly the WHI study, it feels rather unfair to discredit his work on one study. In the last several months many other Drs in the states are aligning with Bluming, Bluming was an oncologist for 60 years, sits on the board of the Newson Health Menopause Society and has written many published articles. He was also the Dr who spearheaded lumpectomy and radiation were as good for some women as was DMX. His wife and daughter both have er/pr+ BC and are both on HRT. The safety of low dose estradiol and micronized progesterone seems very promising. I would like to see an interview with two opposing opinions having an intellectual discussion. As a woman with er/pr+ bc I would like to know the science overall not just one study.
I have done several videos reviewing all the old outdated papers he quotes.
@@DrLizORiordan I am curious to hear a different take on this. What research/study are you basing this on? I live the US and many providers are now comfortable prescribing hormones as updated information shows the protective nature of hormones such as estriadol NOT the DES used in that particular study and progesterone NOT medroxyprogesterone acetate that was used in both the WHI as well as HABITS study. More women die of heart disease than breast cancer. Tamoxifin only works for some and the side effects are brutal. I would encourage all women to their research.
This is probably why the WHI trial of estrogen alone (Premarin) reduced breast cancer risk in women with hysterectomy. Irresponsible HRT enthusiasts love to cite this study as showing that estrogen is safe and beneficial and actually prevents breast cancer. Estrogen does not *prevent* breast cancer -- the WHI shows that Premarin is probably TREATING subclinical estrogen-deprived tumors in hysterectomized women who have been menopausal for >10 years. Hysterectomy, with or without oophorectomy, cuts breast cancer risk by 25-50% and so tumor cells that manage to survive this "drought", if you suddenly gorge them with estrogen, they will die. It's like the refeeding phenomenon seen in starving, emaciated people - you feed them too much and too fast, you can kill them.
.
This is a great explanation. You’re basically switching up the environment of whatever was there before - lots of estrogen or no estrogen.
Thanku Dr Liz for making this information really clear and easy to understand.
You're most welcome!
What is your take on progesterone for breast cancer?
One of your best videos! Thank you!
Are there non hormonal treatments for menopause symptoms that are as good as HRT?
Yes - if you go to my 'How to cope with Tamoxifen' video, I cover everything and there are links to useful resources in the description
Thank you for this information!
Glad it was helpful!
So a young woman who underwent a hysterectomy due to very early stage endometrial cancer... is HRT still dangerous for her? bio-identical estradiol?
I would think you need HRT b/c you don’t have endometrial tissue anymore AND you’re so young that no hormones will shorten your life!
Why is no one talking about alpha and beta estrogen receptors? When in balance can make a whole difference
Do you have any good sources of information on this?
Great article. You look so cute in this video Dr. O’Riordan
Thank you so much 😀