A Les Paul into a Marshall style amp set at the edge of break up is just not the best rig to complement a tube screamer. It’s like adding cream to a cup of milk, and then complaining it tastes “too dairy.”
Amen. A TS works best off a cleaner signal. I have an Ampeg that's not the best for breakup and the TS solves that problem well. I wouldn't let it near my AC15 though.
It was a hiwatt, not a marshall. Although i can make my gear sound like the young brothers, its my sense of rhythm, style, essentially fingers complemented with medium output paf style pickups, and perhaps the speakers (celestions). Out of the box, hiwatts are a different beast, and i find it easier to get a Black Sabbath sound, and Iommi used Laney amps. So I'd venture Hiwatts are more like Laney, at least the cutom 50 i have which breaks up easily, and which I'm told is unusual as Hiwatts have a reputation of remaining high fidelity clean, more like that Pink Floyd clean sound, which they did record with. I can easily get that ziggy stardust sound too. Don't know what was used on those records, though.
@@denmar355 a dimed super reverb sounds heavenly by itself, but most of us would go to jail if we cranked one. Overdrive pedals exist to replicate the sound of a cranked amp.
Which is probably why he hates them. Many players who haven't been through the amount of gear Rhett has, enough to have found that type of sound by matching the right guitars with the right combo/ head/ cab, those of us who have far less experience with such a variety of gear might see the TS as a quick fix, which is probably what the original designers had in mind anyway.
@@thewayyouwah9170 yeah, I kind of thought the stock TS sounded like the middle position with both pickups out of phase, and that i dont need a tube screamer for that, just know how to solder and configure some wiring.
Rhett: I don't like tube screamers Also Rhett: uses a Les Paul into a Hiwatt. Hi, yes, midrange called they want you to leave some for the rest of us. Lmao it's fair if you don't like tube screamers but imo using a TS with this setup is like putting a sweater on a sheep, you're only adding more wool, and the sheep has plenty. If you never use single coils, it makes sense that you don't really see the appeal of tube screamers.
@@travisthornton1792 and not just any single coils but low output single coils. Itll work better with vintage 5k single coils than with David Gilmour style 16k pickups.
For a guy who has such a high opinion on himself and is YT famous for guitars, etc.... You would think he would understand why maybe the TS is loved by so many and maybe why he doesn't like it in his particular rig. What's hilarious is that his base tone in this video is essentially what a TS does to something like a Fender amp. 🤣
I'm kinda surprised that such an educated guitarist as you, Rhett, missed the entire point of this pedal. There are entire genres of rock that stand upon the guitar tones that can only be achieved with tubesreamer type pedals. Take pop punk, for instance, a Strat into a TS with a gnarly amount of gain and then into a Orange, Fender or Vox on a mild crunch setting is the essential pop punk tone. If you increase the gain on an amp and skip the tubescreamer it just lacks the punch in the mids, and if you use a Marshall type amp it doesn't sound bright enough. So yeah, tubescreamer is a must. You don't need a tubescreamer to boost a Les Paul to HiWatt chain, what the hell.
Totally agree. I said something similar above. A TS is best used to tighten and improve clarity and punch. Tone too nasal? Dial the mids back and add some bass and treble on the amp! Except now that bass and treble will be clear , smooth, and tight. You can actually get more bass without farting out this way
Fuck I wish I knew more about signals like this. I'm just a player and I fiddle with knobs until they sound ok but not always happy with my tone. I think I need electric guitar accessory lessons. Does someone even offer that? I know how to play...
@@8KilgoreTrout4 The problem with guitar tone is that unlike music theory or playing technique it is completely subjective, so taking a course on that subject is like taking a course on which books are good and which ones are bad, it's kinda pointless. I'd suggest picking a few bands that have guitar tones you like. Then try to find some videos on their rigs, maybe you'll find an episode of Rig Rundown where they show their amps and pedals. There are also a few websites with the information about which amps and pedals different guitarists use. Sure, it may not be always accurate, but it's a starting point. And of course you have a lot of guitar youtubers with tons of opinions on this stuff, just keep looking for that tone you want.
I believe tubescreamers are more desirable to people looking to add midrange to lower output single coil pickups. Your humbuckers and p-90s already have enough midrange. Maybe try the same test with a strat?
Ding, ding, ding!!! I use low output pickups with my Strat's & Tele's. For me the mid-hump is a necessary evil. (It's not really evil). I've tried other pedals but always go back to tubescreamer type pedals.
@@CocoKoi321 which unintentionally proves why many strat/tele disciples somehow unwillingly acknowledge that they've always really wanted to play a Les Paul through some late 70s Marshall to let their craft shine yet they are way too too lazy to ever admit that.
There's a mile-wide gap between, "I don't like something," and "that something sucks." One of the best guitar tones ever came from Stevie Ray who had a screamer on his board forever. Maybe it's not for you, but does it "suck?" No.
@@weschilton Absolutely. That's like saying I hate greenback speakers. The legendary records speak louder than TH-cam clickbait. Getting all caught up in tone semantics wastes time. A good player will make a TS sound good.
Josh from JHS did a video about why you can't just match knobs to compare pedals, since each one has slightly different components. But I think trying to judge a pedal that is meant to boost mids on a humbucker into a hiwatt is just nuts anyways so...
Yeah, that was a moronic thing to do to set the knobs the same. There's the component tolerance factor you absolutely must consider. Especially with potentiometers. 5% tolerance (which is typical by electronics standards) on a 340 degree knob sweep is over 15 degrees of play.
You’re one of the most nuanced and effective communicators in the guitar community today, so you deserve to hear helpful feedback- This is a headass take.
iy doesnt compliment the sound at all, it changes your tone, and funny that since i remember to play guitar...30 years i never liked TS despite having more than 10 of them...bad monkey on other hand i can adjust the tone, is just a matter of taste and i respect 100% everyone who love it...try to replace TS with a rat because rat can be way more transparent if you dial down the gain like Nuno Bettencourt
@@marcosavila8215 same, I understand what TS does to a tone and I understand why people like it but for me it changes my amp tones in an undesirable way, always and it's not because I like "transparent overdrives" since I use SD-1, BD-2 and other colorful stuff in front of them but the TS just doesn't work. inb4 "the SD-1 is just a tube screamer" no it's fucking not
@@mitsuki1388 I agree, SD-1 has better sound imo, no offense for TS-9 users but TS-9 sounds kinda thin and weak. I compared them in a music store and like SD-1 more.
@@marcosavila8215If you use it as a mid boost you can make the rest of your pedals sound so much better (Big muff, Klon type OD, etc) you’re just using the tubescreamer in one way, but it has many uses
The tube screamer is a great pedal. We can't deny that Mayer and SRV had great sounds. The thing is it just doesn't work for how you setup your sound. There is nothing wrong with that though.
Also, both of those players primarily utilize(d) strats, which by their nature tend to have a more “scooped” sound, so the TS fills in some of those mids. I think that’s part of it too. My 2 cents
Yes. And I'm sure Rhett is fully aware of the correct way to use a tube screamer. So it's almost as if he intentionally used it wrong in this video to try and discredit it 🤔
I’m not a fan of the TS personally, but I do totally agree that it doesn’t suck. I like the sound that others get from it but it’s just not for my own taste. I don’t think it’s fair to say that it sucks
There is something to say about what a TS-9 (modded or not) does to a Strat from a clean fender style amp boosting a gain pedal. For band mixes…it works wonders. Yes there are tons of pedals that do that same thing but the TS-9 or 808 without a doubt does something. You can’t deny that. Rhett listens to many many guitarists who have used this exact setup and HE likes the tone. His personal experience sided with not using one. That’s cool. It’s not for everyone.
“For band mixes, it works wonders” BINGO I think that’s a point that’s getting lost in the mix here. Most players are hobbyists and/or solo guys who play at home for fun. Is there anything wrong with that? ABSOLUTELY NOT…it’s one of life’s great joys. I’m an amateur bass fisherman so I *know* that point of view on certain pieces of gear. But it’s very difficult to properly “judge” the value/usefulness of a tube screamer unless you’re playing with a band on the regular. There are some pedals you rely on to solve certain issues and get certain vibes happening. The tube screamer will always be one of those pedals on my board. It makes your guitar easier to play and seats your midrange perfectly between the bass and the vocals/snare/cymbals/etc.
And Rhett has a valid point about not boosting miss on an already “middy” rig. I do not like tube screamers for my rhythm tone, because just as he said I like a more “transparent” pedal like a Timmy for that. But stacking a tube screamer with it or a fuzz pedal sounds pretty great to me.
I haven't had a TS for long, and I'm still playing around with it, but I bought it for two things, both of which are quite common uses: 1) adding that nasally mid to cut through a mix for solos, and 2) any metalhead will tell you that a good riffing rhythm sound is a high gain amp with a TS (set to low gain, high level) in front. It tightens up the bottom end. If you're doing heavy palm muting, a TS will give you that chug where previously you had mush.
JHS: ironically say it sucks Rhett Shull: earnestly says it sucks Trey Anastasio: I’ll take two tube screamers please Metal players: tube screamer is basically part of the 5150 rig
@@TheWolvesCurse I would just use my footswitch on mine. I have the 6505+ 112. It doesn't need a tube screamer at all, or any distortion/od. Versatile AF.
Yeah us metal players have kind of jacked the TS as like, “our pedal.” It’s really the Chefs kiss for high gain metal amps. But I actually really do just like it as an OD for clean amps and broken up amps. Like, Stevie Ray man. That’s all I’m gonna say lol.
That’s true, but it was also adopted by most Strat players in blues or blues rock in the 80’s snd 90’s, really through now, mainly because SRV tone. I use it to get a mid boost for my Fuzz Face and some other OD pedals in a band mix. Though I don’t really like the LED ones. I like Asymmetrical Clipping, with low gain. Love SRV and some of Mayer’s live sounds, but I’m not trying to sound like them unless it’s a cover gig, and they want SRV mimicked sounds.
You guys should try a VFE Pale Horse. It’s a TS circuit with just more shaping options, with Mosfet, Asymmetrical, LED clipping, snd Low snd high cut or boost knobs as well. I’ve used it to get a pretty sick metal tone, when stacked with the right amp or other pedals.
I used to think that about tube screamers as well. Then I tried one as a boost in front of a loud 4x12 cabinet with a 100watt head that was a bit bass heavy. It cleaned it up beautifully. It’s more about gear combinations.
Takeaway: Perhaps the TS isn’t for those that don’t really know how to use them, unlike the numerous brilliant guitarists who do and make them sound great live or in the mix.
I totally agree. Sometimes the word “hate” is used to replace their ignorance on how to use things. So instead of learning to use and maximize it they just hate it, less effort, less hassle for them. So sad.
@@marklingad7554 If a player hates gear that I like I find it to be a good thing because if everybody wants something the price gets way out of hand like those vintage tube screamers.
@@marklingad7554 Exactly. You got the point. Hate is always based in fear, and fear always comes from ignorance of something. Hating TSers has nothing to do with natural preference, and everything to do with avoiding facing up to your own ignorance, otherwise, there’s no sense in the fear and hatred. Joking about hating something for the purposes of attracting attention and revenue as in this case, is just an example of fear. RS has often seemed fearful in many of the videos I’ve seen.
Rhett I watch a lot of your videos which are usually great but have to say I’m really surprised that you’re pairing a tube screamer with a Les Paul and saying they suck! I’m an intermediate level guitarist and I ruled out using a TS with my Les Paul a long long time ago. But with single coil guitars they really give them the thump they need and push the front end of the amp harder. A TS with a Les Paul might work for some people, but I think the majority of players use them with single coil guitars or metal players might use them for tightening their high gain sound. Just my opinion.
Rhett it's funny.. the way you set your base clean tone on your amp, if I were blindfolded, I would think you already had a TS turned on. Like, the mid-hump in your base amp tone sounds like a TS already lol. But even still, personally between the three sounds, your tone with the TS9 is far and away the best of the three. It just is. I love a Morning Glory, I love the transparent thing. But throw it in a mix and it's obvious why so many go for the TS. The low end and highs that a TS shaves off just happen to be some of the most useless frequencies for a guitar in a mix. A full-frequency transparent overdrive sounds great in isolation, but in a mix in my experience it's paradoxically the one that ends up sounding muddy, messy, spiky, and gets lost.
For my money, the Fulltone OCD does transparency the right way by still tapering off the unpalatable frequencies and not over correcting the low-mid range.
I think Rhett is completely missing the point. Yes the modded ts9 does a different thing to the stock one. But what the stock one does is the tubescreamer thing. The modded one doesn’t do the tubescreamer thing. Just because he doesn’t personally like it doesn’t make it wrong. The ts9 is an icon for a reason
Probably one of the most common uses of the Tube Screamer is to boost the mids specifically in front of a high gain amp in the metal context to "tighten up" the transients and make the pick attack more pronounced. The mids are usually turned down to some degree on the amp in the same time to compensate.
Too each his own Rhett , I really like the Morning Glory ,I like a TS as well. But I don't run my amps to the edge of break up , I run them crystal clean as I play a lot of music using those sparkle , jangley tones . I like the gain up on the TS going into a clean amp , great with my Tele or Strat on the bridge pickup .
Love the honesty man! They are the best pedal to cut through a dense mix without getting in the way of other instruments. I personally love it. As a FOH engineer, If I am mixing a large band and the room is pretty live, the guitar player tends to get lost in the mix. If he has a tube screamer usually he turns it on and fixes the issue. If he does not have one, I usually boost between 500hz to 3khz which is around the same frequency response of the pedal. I personally see it as a mid boost more than a overdrive.
I'd also consider the intended purpose/why it's a classic pedal. It's because back before modern high gain amp designs people were diming marshalls, and throwing a circuit in front that took out all that fizzy high end and flabby as shit bass really made the amp useable again at those insane volumes.
Simple rule of thumb: You need one tubescreamer for each mid scoop your chain has. Strat into clean fender amp - two scoops. Strat into marshal - need one for solos Rhett's setup - no mid scoops, no ts-9 needed. You just treat the screamer as a mid-boost ❤
Metal players like the TS sound to tighten up a high gain amp sound. They are great to mix with as well such as adding some extra grit to a bass or even a snare track.
you nailed it at about 16:15... SRV showed us the way. It’s for making old Fender guitars played into old Fender amps have a little more muscle. The other use you also mentioned is to tighten up high gain amps in metal settings. That’s about it. I could see when you had a Les Paul in your hands exactly what you weren’t going to like before you even started playing or mentioned it
Like what “That Pedal Show” folks said, Rhett, it all really depends on your amps. Some amps just don’t jam with tubescreamers very well compared to others. Also, it’s always featured in heavy music to tighten up the bass because the typical high gain rock amps usually have flabby bass, and they rarely use the drive knob for that. So the popularity maybe coming from it’s usage to many genres of music and not just SRV type blues, and not because it’s “that good” of an OD pedal.
I was thinking the same thing. It depends on the amp. I've been going back and forth between a Fender Bassman and a Vox hand wired AC30 for my gigs lately and with the Bassman I use a tube screamer because I think the mid bump from it sounds nice given that amp doesn't have a lot of mids inherently. But with the Vox the tube screamer results in too much midrange so I use a Zendrive with that amp instead.
@@randygomez9595 yeah the folks at “That Pedal Show” did have a past video similar with your experience, and that was really interesting. I do have different ODs on my board and each will have their own time to be played depending on what amp is gonna be played because of what I saw in that show. Really helped a lot haha
A TS is great as a boost for a Marshall (Level up, Drive down). Just like the SD-1, it cuts lows, boosts mids and gets the amp into the zone of controllable feedback and sustain without the muddy lows and ear piercing highs of a linear boost. I guess that's the reason everyone else like Tube Screamers.
I caught that slice of "Custard Pie." You are a hero just for that! :D Funny how I've found the same qualities of the TS9 distasteful that you've addressed, and have been hesitant to fully acknowledge it, much less mention it to anyone. This gives me more confidence in exploring alternatives that don't commit atrocities to tone.
I will say, I run a stock 808 into a Morning Glory and I love the results. Not pushing any extra gain from the 808, just extra volume and that inherent tone of the pedal to help everything else cut a little more.
I think what Rhett doesn't like about the pedal is what actually makes it special. It brings out the frequencies that help it cut through the mix and shelves the ones that get in the way. Mid boost, bass and treble cut puts it in a very vocal range for solos. It's a pedal that fits a certain situation and maybe Rhett is not in that position.
@@tomasvmusic I'm gonna have to disagree there. Changing some resistors and changing the types of caps isn't anything major. It's still the same circuit, just different valued parts.
@@jimmycleary7864 Stock one sucks tone, the modded one added some magic. And I am not capable of modding a pedal, so, I need someone to do it for me, therefore new pedal.
The TS9 is great if you know where to apply it. I love the way it changes tone for leads. It cuts through and makes the solos just "pop" more. But I use it sparingly, it's not an "always on" effect for me.
Yeah click bait That's his goal...I think his subs have dipped off He is my least favorite Utuber Turning into the guy you love to hate AND yes Josh has a better slide tone 😆
I primarily use my TS in a high gain context, that’s where it shines. It takes a high-gain amp and tightens up the attack and sends it over the top for gain. In a lower-gain context I go with a Timmy.
You have a mid-heavy base tone (which is way past "edge of breakup", by the way), so yeah, adding a mid-boost kind of pedal isn't for you ... but it certainly doesn't mean they suck. Put the TS pedal between a bright, chimey guitar and a clean Fender amp and it's a different ballgame. And you should know that.
All personal preference, I guess. The stock TS9 has a classic kind of sound. The modded no longer sounds like a TS at all. Louder, brighter, less mid hump. Of course, starting with a pretty mid boosted tone is going to be a no-win situation anyway. And hey, you like fuzz in a way that most people don't so there's no accounting for taste. LOL! Good, objective video.
Yep. The second the drums, bass and guitars come in you'll be saying where did I go? that's where you try to find your spot in the mix, and it's always different than that perfect bedroom tone you spent so much time on.
As guitar players part of the appeal is we don’t have to care. Thats a producer or sound guys problem. I only care if i sound good. F the rest of the band
Very interesting, thanks for the video! But today I was listening to some music that probably use this pedal, and I kept thinking "how would this play out in the context of a band mix?" I have an interesting story to share: some years ago I was rehearsing with a band in a studio (as a bass player - I don't play guitar), and the guys didn't have my amp of choice (GK 800RB) available at that moment, so they brought in a Hiwatt guitar amp. I told them I wanted a proper bass amp instead, and they said "hey, just try this one out", and I tried it by playing solo a bit. It sounded amazing by itself. So I said, "OK, let's try it out in the rehearsal". Turns out that as soon as the band started, I was buried deep in the mix and couldn't hear myself even with the output decently up. I had to stop the music and ask for an amp switch. In the end, I was right about my instinct: the guitar amp didn't handle my bass sound as it should, which is obvious, since the EQ section of a guitar amp is (and should be) very different than that of bass amps, as the more desired frequency regions are quite different between these instruments. Moral of the story: don't go with the tone by itself to judge a piece of gear unless you're going to play solo. Usually you need to put it in context of the band and music you're going to play to know whether it works.
I love Tube Screamers. Favorite pedal of all time. For years I did gigs and taught with just a TS-808RI abs it acted as a compressor and boost and brought out all the harmonics and made everything easier to play. A Satriani Wah and a TS-808, good fender tube amp or a Marshall and tons of complements of my tone. I would set everything to 2 o’clock or higher abs use amp gain and it would just sing. If you add gain to a TS magic comes through imho and I think it acts as a somewhat of a compressor in a way as it always made legato at low volumes much easier. The SRV 2 TS trick works. I think there’s a big difference between a TS-9 and TS-808. Yes, you can make them sound the same but the 808 is much warmer and if you ever tried the TS-808HW you know what I mean. Tons of warmth. I treat TS like fuzzes and always add amp gain or stack them.
Tube screamer disciple here, I’m a fan of the ts but not for the “edge of breakup” stuff. I use it for hard rock/metal things and I feel like thats where it shines best. Srv fans would disagree with me though lol
The guitar player I work for uses it with a Duel Rec and a Marshall 1987x running at the same time. It sounds incredible. When I saw her set up I was like really? A tube screamer? I tried other drives and never got the same results. It made me a believer. How this guy is using it doesn't do it justice.
I use a TS with my H&K combo. It allows me to back off on the amp overdrive and clean up my rhythm sounds. Then I can use a little TS to up the gain and edge for solos. Works for me!
I'm a strat into a Fender style amp guy so the tube screamer is one of my favorite pedals. That said I also love a Les Paul into a Fender brown panel (or tweed) or early Marshall (jtm) and at times I can live without the TS. To each his own, but the tube screamer isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Great show and glad to hear your opinion even if it's completely wrong, just kidding.
Ding ding ding 🔔 One of the most important lessons any musician can learn is the way an instrument sounds by itself vs in a mix are two totally different "ball games"
This right here is the right comment. Aside from him setting his amp to the tube screamer from the get go. Lol. But this is the right answer. To my ears here in the room, by myself, this sounds better. But that's not what a guitar pedal, especially this pedal, is really for.
The TS-9 does basically one thing well: pushing metal amps (especially 5150s) harder at the front end. You set the level to 10, the drive to 0, and typically the tone somewhere between noon and 3. If you're doing anything else with it, you should probably look for a better OD pedal. For most Marshall amps, I personally find that a Boss SD-1 sounds better, and tends to be a better OD pedal in general for pretty cheap.
Well, this video put me off buying a TS for ages. Last weekend I dipped my toe in the water buying a Behringer TS clone and really liked it. As Josh Scott says: “If it sounds good it is good”. It’s subjective of course but I’m glad I bought one.
Irony of ironies… I’m not a tube screamer guy and watched this video to confirm my bias. I think you actually convinced me that I need to buy a stock tube screamer. Go figure
I used only Strat for 30+ years and the TS9 was great for that, now I use a large variety of guitars and amps and the TS9 certainly doesn't fit all. But it usually works great in a band mix, as it positions the guitar firmly in the middle of the frequency range so it doesn't kill off other instruments. I normally use the natural gain from a tube amp, and a Soul Food as boost, which the TS can stack nice with in a mix. My goto for a simple setup, I have a Helix which has "all" the pedals built in, but I seldom use it as it's time consuming to set up. Too many options to get lost in.
I get what Rhett is saying...the Tubescreamer is a specific trip and ain’t for everyone. My Keely modded TS-9 (stacked with a version 3 OCD) works well with my Strat/Fender setup.
A lot of people like to use the tube screamer for single coil guitars through a very clean amp. Usually clean tele to clean fender amp. It’s a great pedal for darkening tone a bit. Particularly useful with a Vox AC30, which is super bright. If you have the budget to have a great amp with its own distortion circuit, those will always beat pedal distortion IMO. For many studio guitarists the tube screamer offers another tonal option that may work for some songs and not work for others.
True, What you say is the truth in the real world. I don't like TS's own tone at all, but it fits very well in the mix when combined with some guitars and amps. I record the guitar at work every day. Especially the combination of Telecaster + Tube Screamer + VOX AC30 produces a miraculous tone. A terrible guitar sound that you listen to alone is often well sit in a mix. It's strange to me that he's a good professional musician but complains like a bedroom guitar player.
@@134SASAKI hahaha it's true. I adore my TS-type drive for making an amp scream, but I also have a Seymour Duncan Powerstage which is a operating-room-clean class D power amp to send some other preamp into (and is WONDERFUL for that), but a TS into that amp cold is hilariously feeble and unpleasant.
Interesting you say a tube screamer is useful with a Vox AC30 because I've tried a tube screamer with my Vox hand wired AC30 and thought the result was way too much mids. But to each their own...
@@134SASAKI I used a tele or strat into an AC-30 with a tube screamer for years until I went to a Fender and a Marshall. Only pedal that sounds better with that rig is a treble booster
I loved this video from early on, when Rhett kicked on the pedal he hates and my reaction was “sounds fucking awesome!” I guess it’s just the millionth reminder that tone is very subjective. I must really like a very mid-focused sound. Love the channel, Rhett!
Rhett I love my TS-808 so much I run TWO of them at the same time, gain set to zero on the first one and then just a touch of gain (9:00) on the second one. Magic!
I've never understood why people start with the knobs at noon. It is not a neutral or the "intended" point on most pedals. On most pedals the output volume is basically a volume drop, so it is often best full to the right. Tone knob in a ts-style or a big muff style tone stack is usually best around 1-2 o'clock. That's the most common setting that sounds good on a tone knob. Distortions knobs usually sound best before the halfway. And fuzzes usually sound best after the halfway point. So everything at 12 the pedals usually adds up the worst parts. Same with amps. On a Marshall the best starting points usually are the bass knob near zero, mid and treble full, or close to.
I use mine as a boost (actually a powerscreamer). I set up my amp similar to what you described; gain set low to edge of breakup, bass rolled completely off, mids and treble below noon. First distortion in my chain is a Rat clone, then a Timmy. I use the Timmy as my rhythm sound. It then goes through a Keeley compressor, that I either have on all the time with single coils, or use for solos with humbuckers. The last pedal before delay and reverb is the powerscreamer. I find it to be very stackable, especially with fuzz/distortion. I will say this, I wasn't impressed with Rhett's base tone coming from the amp. If your amp tone sucks, no pedal will sound good.
@@runegodly34 a decent point. But there are reasons to those numbers. Eg the tone on ts or Muff cuts highs and lows even at the middle settings, hence why it sounds duller. Turning the tone higher raises the point where the highs are cut and as well as the lows. So you get less lows and more highs. Now at some point the high cut will be negligent, but the knob is still rolling off the low end which will make the sound thin. That's why I say it's common to have it around 1-2. Because it's common for good sounds to have a cut in the low end, and not that much cut in the top end. The volume pot I explained already. Often it is there to compensate for too much volume caused by the boost of the circuit, so to start with it's intended as more of a gain compensation knob. And also the gain is similar. It's usually just a pot that regulates how much input you want to go into clipping. There are a few common value pots and most manufacturers just put in one that has a good sounding range. They (mostly) don't care how the pot sounds in the middle. Also the output volume of the guitar is basically acting as the gain knob as well. It would be impossible to have all guitars have the same sweetspot amount of distortion with the gain at noon.
Also on the same point, I don't understand why people match knobs in the same direction instead of listening to make the things sound similar. The takeaway should be: Don't look at the knobs. Listen to the sound and adjust the pots accordingly. Here Rhett got a sound that he preferred (the boost with minimal gain) and then in the comparison turned the tone knob to do what he didn't like in the pedal in the first place. Now this is all not saying that the ts is the most brilliant pedal there is. It isn't, and yes it's slightly over hyped. Especially the ts808.
IMO it comes down to where the guitar is going to sit in the mix: Scenario 1 - A guitar driven band with male baritone or lower tenor vocals (Who, Van Halen) - You want the guitar to have a brighter tone so you don't muddy the other parts. Scenario 2 - A keyboard driven band with higher tenor of female singer. (Phil Collins, Bangles) - The guitar has a more midrange sound In all you can mix and match, and shuffle what is on top of the mix. Korn, Chili Peppers, and Primus mix the bass on top because the bass carries the songs. Some others will use cymbals and hi-hat to fill that range
Something important to remember it's that when people were really getting into the modding thing, there weren't many boutique options in the market. I feel like for a while it was the modded ts9 or a fulldrive. There are so many options now, 20ish years later, that you can find the exact flavor you want and it makes wwaayyy less sense to go the tubescreamer route.
Most people use these for Strats and that's where I think they shine. Amp just at the edge of break up, Drive to zero and push it with the Level and for Heavens sake take it easy with the Tone knob.
It's probably the only overdrive I've kept on my board in my year long history with electric guitar. I don't play metal nor do I play fender style clean amp (although I do think TS does wonders on that). I play blackstar amps which are known for a good bottom end response and classic British warmth and mid range. The thing is TS808 tightens up the bottom end really well, gives a more mid range punch which makes it a great boost for lead sound. A lot of things with stuff that adds character to your sound is how your board and amp are setup. I use a DS1 and since the blackstar has such a warm tone I can put the tone control to 1 o clock and get a really cool 80s rock inspired sound. Both my guitars are strats so turning on the TS just makes it sound good. Although as much as I love this pedal it isn't for everyone. You either love it to the point it's the only OD you'll ever use or hate it so much that you'll use anything but a TS on yoru board.
@@denmar355 yup. I can get not vibing with a pedal with a unique voice, but to call tube screamers overrated is just weird. There's a reason it is the most iconic pedal of all time. From blues to metal, you can find a TS pretty much everywhere.
I love Tube Screamers and especially the TS808. I’m a blues guitarist and have been performing for years - the main pedal that gets me that SRV Texas Blues sound out of my Stratocaster and Fender tube reverb amplifier.
That’s not my experience. Replace the TS with a Morning Glory or a more transparent OD pedal and watch the SRV slap and clarity return to your gain. Just my experience…. Also, remember, what sounds good in your bedroom can sound like a muddy mess with a band (unless your amp is cranked to 11 and your speaker is crying. in which case, the TS is a glorified boost to a cranked tube amp and speaker.) That’s why I say SRV sounded good in spite of a TS, not because of one Just my 2 cents. We’re allowed to disagree
The Strymon Sunset has fixed that issue with many tube screamers. I agree many are muddy sounding and the low end is amplified. Plus some add a bit of reverb as well. The Sunset adds a more gain and top end.
I'd say that it's just your base tone isn't really the type of tone that works well with a TS. I love the TS, didn't like the tones in this video at all. It's a tricky pedal for sure, doesn't sound good for everything but when it does, it's amazing.
I have a ts-10 that I’ve owned since the late 80s. It really matters what guitar you’re using it with and what amp you’re using. It can sound great with the right rig or awful with the wrong rig. Some players that have used the tubescreamer a lot that you didn’t mention are Gary Moore, Joe Bonamassa and Eric Johnson.
I've never played through a tube screamer, but it's something I've wanted to try. What he's doing with them here sounds good to me, a 70's rock, billy gibbons, black crowes guitar sound is what I'm into, and this seems good for that.
At a glance, schematically the blues breaker would be less ‘transparent’ than a tube screamer. A tube screamer clipping stage adds the clipped waveform to the non-clipped waveform, but the blues breaker doesn’t. So presumably the ‘transparency’ thing has more to do with the frequency response than the actual clipping, which I think is interesting.
Yeah absolutely - I think that’s exactly what people mean when using the term “transparent” in the context of overdrive; adding drive (clipping) without fundamentally changing the characteristic of the guitar into the amp which really comes from its EQ profile
(Although actually there is of course still an EQ shift with the Bluesbreaker too, as it dumps a fair bit of bass and brightens things up a bit but those are less obvious perhaps than the nasal spot for the mid hump in a TS)
If you have the right amp and guitar you don’t really need a tube screamer.. especially if you don’t down tune and or play hard rock or metal.. Sometimes a tube screamer is just what is needed and sometimes it’s just not necessary..
The tube screamer makes a lot more sense in the context of a band to stand out. Playing guitar in isolation with a tube screamer is always going to be overly mid forward….
I dig ur honesty but that’s what keeps things interesting! We all have some things that we don’t care for and things we love!! But again,like the honesty!!
So basically, the whole idea of this video is this: "This shepherd's pie doesn't taste anything like that apple pie, or the cherry pie, or the banana cream pie, so it sucks. Now I'm going to change this shepherd's pie so it's exactly like all the other pies, and then it will be awesome!" Which is really a dumb way of looking at it. Of course it's not like other pedals. It does its own thing. You said you prefer the sound of P90 guitars. Well, if you follow your logic, you shouldn't, because they don't sound like your Les Paul, or your 335, or any of your other guitars that don't have humbuckers. If somebody doesn't like the way something sounds, that's fine. But to turn around and call that thing junk because they don't like it? Stupid. I don't like John Mayer. But I don't go around saying how he sucks. I just listen to what I like to listen to and get on with my life.
Well most players that love this pedal are hard rock to metal players and not really blues players. So I think you actually understand why people love it. It's more of a "cut pedal" than a boost, because the primary benefit is it to cut the excess lows you get from cranked amps. The added gain is just secondary.
@@happygster922 I did not speak in general terms. And SRV leans more in the "heavy blues" side so yeah. In fact, I too used a TS-type pedal for my hip-hop/soul band some years ago.
If a person has to do that much modding to the tube screamer, seems like one should buy a different pedal that already satisfies. Also, I would have liked it better if he did not know which tube screamer had been modded before hand. Just knowing will give a person a preconceived bias. Not being there in person, I can't tell much difference. They all sounded perfectly fine to me.
A Les Paul into a Marshall style amp set at the edge of break up is just not the best rig to complement a tube screamer. It’s like adding cream to a cup of milk, and then complaining it tastes “too dairy.”
Well spoken, girlfriend. My thoughts as well.
My exact thoughts! Plug in a strat and run it into a tube amp.
Amen. A TS works best off a cleaner signal. I have an Ampeg that's not the best for breakup and the TS solves that problem well. I wouldn't let it near my AC15 though.
This
It was a hiwatt, not a marshall. Although i can make my gear sound like the young brothers, its my sense of rhythm, style, essentially fingers complemented with medium output paf style pickups, and perhaps the speakers (celestions).
Out of the box, hiwatts are a different beast, and i find it easier to get a Black Sabbath sound, and Iommi used Laney amps. So I'd venture Hiwatts are more like Laney, at least the cutom 50 i have which breaks up easily, and which I'm told is unusual as Hiwatts have a reputation of remaining high fidelity clean, more like that Pink Floyd clean sound, which they did record with. I can easily get that ziggy stardust sound too. Don't know what was used on those records, though.
"I hate the sound of tubescreamers" says the guy who sets his base tone up to sound like a tube screamer 🤣
Nice one. My thoughts as well.
Try a TS level up gain 9 o click into a Dimed Super Reverb. Different story.
@@denmar355 a dimed super reverb sounds heavenly by itself, but most of us would go to jail if we cranked one. Overdrive pedals exist to replicate the sound of a cranked amp.
Which is probably why he hates them. Many players who haven't been through the amount of gear Rhett has, enough to have found that type of sound by matching the right guitars with the right combo/ head/ cab, those of us who have far less experience with such a variety of gear might see the TS as a quick fix, which is probably what the original designers had in mind anyway.
hahahaha
@@thewayyouwah9170 yeah, I kind of thought the stock TS sounded like the middle position with both pickups out of phase, and that i dont need a tube screamer for that, just know how to solder and configure some wiring.
Rhett: I don't like tube screamers
Also Rhett: uses a Les Paul into a Hiwatt.
Hi, yes, midrange called they want you to leave some for the rest of us.
Lmao it's fair if you don't like tube screamers but imo using a TS with this setup is like putting a sweater on a sheep, you're only adding more wool, and the sheep has plenty.
If you never use single coils, it makes sense that you don't really see the appeal of tube screamers.
Exactly. This pedal works best with single coils to boost the mids.
@@travisthornton1792 and not just any single coils but low output single coils. Itll work better with vintage 5k single coils than with David Gilmour style 16k pickups.
@@gilbertotoledo1421 right - I have noiseless pickups in my Stratocaster and the tube screamer helps round out that thin sound
@@travisthornton1792 What if you play hard rock or metal?
Well mids is what 60% of your sound. So I feel like that's a weak argument.
I’ve used a tube screamer for years. I played mine through my 1984 JCM 800. The tone is incredible. No, these pedals do not suck.
SG + tube screamer + jcm 800 = god tier tone
It's a classic for a reason. They rule!
Nice! I run a ts9 thru an 82 and 88 800. Love it!
Nice! I run a ts9 thru an 82 and 88 800. Love it!
For a guy who has such a high opinion on himself and is YT famous for guitars, etc.... You would think he would understand why maybe the TS is loved by so many and maybe why he doesn't like it in his particular rig. What's hilarious is that his base tone in this video is essentially what a TS does to something like a Fender amp. 🤣
I'm kinda surprised that such an educated guitarist as you, Rhett, missed the entire point of this pedal. There are entire genres of rock that stand upon the guitar tones that can only be achieved with tubesreamer type pedals. Take pop punk, for instance, a Strat into a TS with a gnarly amount of gain and then into a Orange, Fender or Vox on a mild crunch setting is the essential pop punk tone. If you increase the gain on an amp and skip the tubescreamer it just lacks the punch in the mids, and if you use a Marshall type amp it doesn't sound bright enough. So yeah, tubescreamer is a must. You don't need a tubescreamer to boost a Les Paul to HiWatt chain, what the hell.
Totally agree. I said something similar above. A TS is best used to tighten and improve clarity and punch. Tone too nasal? Dial the mids back and add some bass and treble on the amp! Except now that bass and treble will be clear , smooth, and tight. You can actually get more bass without farting out this way
Homie I do pop punk with a DS-1. Tube Screamer is far from essential
Fuck I wish I knew more about signals like this. I'm just a player and I fiddle with knobs until they sound ok but not always happy with my tone. I think I need electric guitar accessory lessons. Does someone even offer that? I know how to play...
@@8KilgoreTrout4 The problem with guitar tone is that unlike music theory or playing technique it is completely subjective, so taking a course on that subject is like taking a course on which books are good and which ones are bad, it's kinda pointless. I'd suggest picking a few bands that have guitar tones you like. Then try to find some videos on their rigs, maybe you'll find an episode of Rig Rundown where they show their amps and pedals. There are also a few websites with the information about which amps and pedals different guitarists use. Sure, it may not be always accurate, but it's a starting point.
And of course you have a lot of guitar youtubers with tons of opinions on this stuff, just keep looking for that tone you want.
I would not call that the essential pop punk tone lol
I believe tubescreamers are more desirable to people looking to add midrange to lower output single coil pickups. Your humbuckers and p-90s already have enough midrange. Maybe try the same test with a strat?
Ding, ding, ding!!!
I use low output pickups with my Strat's & Tele's. For me the mid-hump is a necessary evil. (It's not really evil).
I've tried other pedals but always go back to tubescreamer type pedals.
This 100%
Explains why SRV used one.
@@CocoKoi321 which unintentionally proves why many strat/tele disciples somehow unwillingly acknowledge that they've always really wanted to play a Les Paul through some late 70s Marshall to let their craft shine yet they are way too too lazy to ever admit that.
Bingo!
There's a mile-wide gap between, "I don't like something," and "that something sucks." One of the best guitar tones ever came from Stevie Ray who had a screamer on his board forever. Maybe it's not for you, but does it "suck?" No.
100% agree
“This sucks” gets more clicks.
Its a total hit job. He setup a rig that the TS is totally wrong for to prove his opinion.
@@weschilton Absolutely. That's like saying I hate greenback speakers. The legendary records speak louder than TH-cam clickbait. Getting all caught up in tone semantics wastes time. A good player will make a TS sound good.
Precisely! It's simply all about subjectivity but apparently that basic concept is lost on some folks..
Josh from JHS did a video about why you can't just match knobs to compare pedals, since each one has slightly different components. But I think trying to judge a pedal that is meant to boost mids on a humbucker into a hiwatt is just nuts anyways so...
agreed.. that's an odd way to prove his point. Makes more moot that anything else
Spot on
If we could all crank a hiwatt onstage or in our bedrooms no pedals would be necessary
Yeah, that was a moronic thing to do to set the knobs the same. There's the component tolerance factor you absolutely must consider. Especially with potentiometers. 5% tolerance (which is typical by electronics standards) on a 340 degree knob sweep is over 15 degrees of play.
John is a huckster fool. Overpriced crap.
You’re one of the most nuanced and effective communicators in the guitar community today, so you deserve to hear helpful feedback-
This is a headass take.
he just doesn't like green pedals.
A tube screamer does NOT 'suck'. It just doesn't compliment your tone. It works for many others.
iy doesnt compliment the sound at all, it changes your tone, and funny that since i remember to play guitar...30 years i never liked TS despite having more than 10 of them...bad monkey on other hand i can adjust the tone, is just a matter of taste and i respect 100% everyone who love it...try to replace TS with a rat because rat can be way more transparent if you dial down the gain like Nuno Bettencourt
@@marcosavila8215 same, I understand what TS does to a tone and I understand why people like it but for me it changes my amp tones in an undesirable way, always and it's not because I like "transparent overdrives" since I use SD-1, BD-2 and other colorful stuff in front of them but the TS just doesn't work.
inb4 "the SD-1 is just a tube screamer" no it's fucking not
@@mitsuki1388 I agree, SD-1 has better sound imo, no offense for TS-9 users but TS-9 sounds kinda thin and weak. I compared them in a music store and like SD-1 more.
@@marcosavila8215If you use it as a mid boost you can make the rest of your pedals sound so much better (Big muff, Klon type OD, etc) you’re just using the tubescreamer in one way, but it has many uses
The tube screamer is a great pedal. We can't deny that Mayer and SRV had great sounds. The thing is it just doesn't work for how you setup your sound. There is nothing wrong with that though.
Also, both of those players primarily utilize(d) strats, which by their nature tend to have a more “scooped” sound, so the TS fills in some of those mids. I think that’s part of it too. My 2 cents
@@bryanh3057 they were also playing through super clean, high headroom amps, definitely not the way Rhett has his amp set up.
I second this
@@bryanh3057 into a fender amp which is also scooped.
But don’t say it sucks though lol
There is not controversy: TS is a pedal that like any tool you must need to know how to use it.
Yes. And I'm sure Rhett is fully aware of the correct way to use a tube screamer. So it's almost as if he intentionally used it wrong in this video to try and discredit it 🤔
Clickbait
@@denmar355 of course it is.
I’m not a fan of the TS personally, but I do totally agree that it doesn’t suck. I like the sound that others get from it but it’s just not for my own taste. I don’t think it’s fair to say that it sucks
Well said
There is something to say about what a TS-9 (modded or not) does to a Strat from a clean fender style amp boosting a gain pedal. For band mixes…it works wonders.
Yes there are tons of pedals that do that same thing but the TS-9 or 808 without a doubt does something. You can’t deny that. Rhett listens to many many guitarists who have used this exact setup and HE likes the tone.
His personal experience sided with not using one. That’s cool. It’s not for everyone.
indeed, his clean tone is probably grittier than my first gain stage haha.
Completely agree
Came here to say this.
“For band mixes, it works wonders” BINGO
I think that’s a point that’s getting lost in the mix here. Most players are hobbyists and/or solo guys who play at home for fun. Is there anything wrong with that? ABSOLUTELY NOT…it’s one of life’s great joys. I’m an amateur bass fisherman so I *know* that point of view on certain pieces of gear. But it’s very difficult to properly “judge” the value/usefulness of a tube screamer unless you’re playing with a band on the regular. There are some pedals you rely on to solve certain issues and get certain vibes happening. The tube screamer will always be one of those pedals on my board. It makes your guitar easier to play and seats your midrange perfectly between the bass and the vocals/snare/cymbals/etc.
And Rhett has a valid point about not boosting miss on an already “middy” rig. I do not like tube screamers for my rhythm tone, because just as he said I like a more “transparent” pedal like a Timmy for that. But stacking a tube screamer with it or a fuzz pedal sounds pretty great to me.
Rhett kicks on the tube screamer and I’m just like “what’s wrong with that tone.” 😂😂
I’ve never liked tube screamers until he kicked it on..
I haven't had a TS for long, and I'm still playing around with it, but I bought it for two things, both of which are quite common uses: 1) adding that nasally mid to cut through a mix for solos, and 2) any metalhead will tell you that a good riffing rhythm sound is a high gain amp with a TS (set to low gain, high level) in front. It tightens up the bottom end. If you're doing heavy palm muting, a TS will give you that chug where previously you had mush.
JHS: ironically say it sucks
Rhett Shull: earnestly says it sucks
Trey Anastasio: I’ll take two tube screamers please
Metal players: tube screamer is basically part of the 5150 rig
Tube screamers should come free with every purchase of a 5150
@@brendenrodgers7821 Tube Screamers should be built in into every 5150
guess i'm a criminal for not using a TS or any kind of drive/boost whatever with a 6505+ xD
@@TheWolvesCurse respectable* criminal;)
@@TheWolvesCurse I would just use my footswitch on mine. I have the 6505+ 112. It doesn't need a tube screamer at all, or any distortion/od. Versatile AF.
Yeah us metal players have kind of jacked the TS as like, “our pedal.” It’s really the Chefs kiss for high gain metal amps. But I actually really do just like it as an OD for clean amps and broken up amps. Like, Stevie Ray man. That’s all I’m gonna say lol.
As a metal guy. I don’t ever turn my tube screamer off. Its just always there and on. 100% of the time
That’s true, but it was also adopted by most Strat players in blues or blues rock in the 80’s snd 90’s, really through now, mainly because SRV tone.
I use it to get a mid boost for my Fuzz Face and some other OD pedals in a band mix.
Though I don’t really like the LED ones. I like Asymmetrical Clipping, with low gain.
Love SRV and some of Mayer’s live sounds, but I’m not trying to sound like them unless it’s a cover gig, and they want SRV mimicked sounds.
@@Ottophil same
You guys should try a VFE Pale Horse. It’s a TS circuit with just more shaping options, with Mosfet, Asymmetrical, LED clipping, snd Low snd high cut or boost knobs as well.
I’ve used it to get a pretty sick metal tone, when stacked with the right amp or other pedals.
@@Ottophil
Are you stacking it with another gain pedal?
That Morning Glory is a fine sounding pedal. It's a wonder Josh can't dial in a better slide tone...
SICK BURN! 🔥
😂
Ice burn!
Jeez 😑
808 and a Strat is match made in heaven, even if you just use the tube scream as a boost it just brings out the complete character on the guitar.
"I'm gonna set the gain to like 10 o clock"
*sets it at 8 o clock*
I like the way that they cut through mixes. That is what they excel at
I used to think that about tube screamers as well. Then I tried one as a boost in front of a loud 4x12 cabinet with a 100watt head that was a bit bass heavy. It cleaned it up beautifully. It’s more about gear combinations.
Rhett looks more and more like Post Malone every day. He just needs to get a couple face tats and crush a bud light in his next video
Halloween is tomorrow so maybe!
Looks like Joe Strummer
I was thinking the same thing.
I’m really glad you said what you said. I agree, if you have to mod a pedal it’s not the same pedal.
Takeaway: Perhaps the TS isn’t for those that don’t really know how to use them, unlike the numerous brilliant guitarists who do and make them sound great live or in the mix.
I totally agree. Sometimes the word “hate” is used to replace their ignorance on how to use things. So instead of learning to use and maximize it they just hate it, less effort, less hassle for them. So sad.
@@marklingad7554 If a player hates gear that I like I find it to be a good thing because if everybody wants something the price gets way out of hand like those vintage tube screamers.
@David Wang Amen. Why some people take it personally that another player hates the gear they like is beyond me.
@@marklingad7554 Exactly. You got the point. Hate is always based in fear, and fear always comes from ignorance of something. Hating TSers has nothing to do with natural preference, and everything to do with avoiding facing up to your own ignorance, otherwise, there’s no sense in the fear and hatred.
Joking about hating something for the purposes of attracting attention and revenue as in this case, is just an example of fear. RS has often seemed fearful in many of the videos I’ve seen.
So how do you properly use a tubescreamer?
Rhett I watch a lot of your videos which are usually great but have to say I’m really surprised that you’re pairing a tube screamer with a Les Paul and saying they suck! I’m an intermediate level guitarist and I ruled out using a TS with my Les Paul a long long time ago. But with single coil guitars they really give them the thump they need and push the front end
of the amp harder. A TS with a Les Paul might work for some people, but I think the majority of players use them with single coil guitars or metal players might use them for tightening their high gain sound. Just my opinion.
My LP w TS into my Tone King Gremlin sounds great but I hear what your saying Yes a LP into a cranked dirty amp beats any pedal
So Strat players use the TS and so do metal guitarists. That's 2/3 of guitar players at least lol.
Rhett it's funny.. the way you set your base clean tone on your amp, if I were blindfolded, I would think you already had a TS turned on. Like, the mid-hump in your base amp tone sounds like a TS already lol. But even still, personally between the three sounds, your tone with the TS9 is far and away the best of the three. It just is.
I love a Morning Glory, I love the transparent thing. But throw it in a mix and it's obvious why so many go for the TS. The low end and highs that a TS shaves off just happen to be some of the most useless frequencies for a guitar in a mix. A full-frequency transparent overdrive sounds great in isolation, but in a mix in my experience it's paradoxically the one that ends up sounding muddy, messy, spiky, and gets lost.
Perfect assessment, couldn't agree with this more!
For my money, the Fulltone OCD does transparency the right way by still tapering off the unpalatable frequencies and not over correcting the low-mid range.
The reason Rhett hates the TS is because he has no idea what a clean tone is
I was going to say the same thing until I read yours. The amp is already set mids-forward and already breaking up.
Lol I think you nailed it
I think Rhett is completely missing the point. Yes the modded ts9 does a different thing to the stock one. But what the stock one does is the tubescreamer thing. The modded one doesn’t do the tubescreamer thing. Just because he doesn’t personally like it doesn’t make it wrong. The ts9 is an icon for a reason
Probably one of the most common uses of the Tube Screamer is to boost the mids specifically in front of a high gain amp in the metal context to "tighten up" the transients and make the pick attack more pronounced. The mids are usually turned down to some degree on the amp in the same time to compensate.
Yes or after any distortion pedal on the pedalboard . If you know how to teak it you got a killer tone !
You also have to keep in mind the amps that were around back then. They built the screamer to HELP those amps
Too each his own Rhett , I really like the Morning Glory ,I like a TS as well. But I don't run my amps to the edge of break up , I run them crystal clean as I play a lot of music using those sparkle , jangley tones . I like the gain up on the TS going into a clean amp , great with my Tele or Strat on the bridge pickup .
Love the honesty man! They are the best pedal to cut through a dense mix without getting in the way of other instruments. I personally love it. As a FOH engineer, If I am mixing a large band and the room is pretty live, the guitar player tends to get lost in the mix. If he has a tube screamer usually he turns it on and fixes the issue. If he does not have one, I usually boost between 500hz to 3khz which is around the same frequency response of the pedal. I personally see it as a mid boost more than a overdrive.
Most TS bump a peak at 780Hz which is perfect for what you described. Strat with a scooped mid amp they rule.
I'd also consider the intended purpose/why it's a classic pedal. It's because back before modern high gain amp designs people were diming marshalls, and throwing a circuit in front that took out all that fizzy high end and flabby as shit bass really made the amp useable again at those insane volumes.
NASA called, left a message: "Hey, that LED? Viewable from outer space!!!"
Simple rule of thumb:
You need one tubescreamer for each mid scoop your chain has.
Strat into clean fender amp - two scoops.
Strat into marshal - need one for solos
Rhett's setup - no mid scoops, no ts-9 needed.
You just treat the screamer as a mid-boost ❤
Metal players like the TS sound to tighten up a high gain amp sound. They are great to mix with as well such as adding some extra grit to a bass or even a snare track.
you nailed it at about 16:15... SRV showed us the way. It’s for making old Fender guitars played into old Fender amps have a little more muscle. The other use you also mentioned is to tighten up high gain amps in metal settings. That’s about it. I could see when you had a Les Paul in your hands exactly what you weren’t going to like before you even started playing or mentioned it
Yes LP's into dirty amps need no help usually...
Tube screamer type circuit at the end of a drive chain sounds great. Especially with a stratocaster.
I have a friend that modifies every piece of equipment he gets. He opens it up, voids the warranty, and “hot rods it”, as he calls it.
I play Godins and LP’s and after this video I’m going to get me a Tube screamer… I actually loved the sound. Thanks for the demo RS
Yes sir
Thought the same thing.
Like what “That Pedal Show” folks said, Rhett, it all really depends on your amps. Some amps just don’t jam with tubescreamers very well compared to others. Also, it’s always featured in heavy music to tighten up the bass because the typical high gain rock amps usually have flabby bass, and they rarely use the drive knob for that. So the popularity maybe coming from it’s usage to many genres of music and not just SRV type blues, and not because it’s “that good” of an OD pedal.
I was thinking the same thing. It depends on the amp. I've been going back and forth between a Fender Bassman and a Vox hand wired AC30 for my gigs lately and with the Bassman I use a tube screamer because I think the mid bump from it sounds nice given that amp doesn't have a lot of mids inherently. But with the Vox the tube screamer results in too much midrange so I use a Zendrive with that amp instead.
@@randygomez9595 yeah the folks at “That Pedal Show” did have a past video similar with your experience, and that was really interesting. I do have different ODs on my board and each will have their own time to be played depending on what amp is gonna be played because of what I saw in that show. Really helped a lot haha
That Xotic pedal wasn't doing it for me... it's not their true clean boost
Stock TS sounded better
A TS is great as a boost for a Marshall (Level up, Drive down). Just like the SD-1, it cuts lows, boosts mids and gets the amp into the zone of controllable feedback and sustain without the muddy lows and ear piercing highs of a linear boost. I guess that's the reason everyone else like Tube Screamers.
And turn the tone down all the way if you don’t want to cut bass frequencies
The TS works great for a strat neck pickup into a Marshall, aka the SRV sound.
Spot on!
I caught that slice of "Custard Pie." You are a hero just for that! :D Funny how I've found the same qualities of the TS9 distasteful that you've addressed, and have been hesitant to fully acknowledge it, much less mention it to anyone. This gives me more confidence in exploring alternatives that don't commit atrocities to tone.
Congrats on passing 400K subs, @Rhett!
Huge fan of modding/pedal cloning, really enjoyed this vid
I will say, I run a stock 808 into a Morning Glory and I love the results. Not pushing any extra gain from the 808, just extra volume and that inherent tone of the pedal to help everything else cut a little more.
I do the exact same thing!
I do the same thing but into an Archer JMOD.
I think what Rhett doesn't like about the pedal is what actually makes it special.
It brings out the frequencies that help it cut through the mix and shelves the ones that get in the way.
Mid boost, bass and treble cut puts it in a very vocal range for solos.
It's a pedal that fits a certain situation and maybe Rhett is not in that position.
To each his own! I actually like your tone going through the TS over the MG and RC.
ABSOLUTELY
As do I. I thought it sounded great. Gimme mids.
If you’re modding it to such a drastic effect, are you really still playing a ts-9?
Obviously no, it's a whole new pedal.
Now there's a topic for another video....
Paging Josh from JHS
@@tomasvmusic I'm gonna have to disagree there. Changing some resistors and changing the types of caps isn't anything major. It's still the same circuit, just different valued parts.
@@jimmycleary7864 Stock one sucks tone, the modded one added some magic. And I am not capable of modding a pedal, so, I need someone to do it for me, therefore new pedal.
The TS9 is great if you know where to apply it. I love the way it changes tone for leads. It cuts through and makes the solos just "pop" more. But I use it sparingly, it's not an "always on" effect for me.
Stay tuned for Rhett's next video titled "This is why I think erasers suck when you try to write with them."
😂
Bro you didn’t even plug in a strat. The blackface + strat is the wombo combo. Ts808 + strat
Exactly what I was thinking. Shorter scale guitar, hb pups, EL84s. Completely different rig.
@@EarthSouthside I never said he wasn't a good guy but his tone on a lot of stuff has much to be desired.
Ok How about this, dont proclaim to love SRV, if you think the screamer sucks 😐
@@EarthSouthside oh, I thought this thread died an hour ago
Yeah click bait That's his goal...I think his subs have dipped off He is my least favorite Utuber Turning into the guy you love to hate AND yes Josh has a better slide tone 😆
I primarily use my TS in a high gain context, that’s where it shines. It takes a high-gain amp and tightens up the attack and sends it over the top for gain. In a lower-gain context I go with a Timmy.
Agree
You have a mid-heavy base tone (which is way past "edge of breakup", by the way), so yeah, adding a mid-boost kind of pedal isn't for you ... but it certainly doesn't mean they suck. Put the TS pedal between a bright, chimey guitar and a clean Fender amp and it's a different ballgame. And you should know that.
Especially w a LP with that amp tone EL84's and TS's are the worst combination He is the click bait master trying to get his numbers up
Finally someone has the balls to say it in public: Yes, the Tube Screamer is one of the worst overdrive pedals!
Glad You Called Out The TS, OD's Make Every Body Sound Like Everybody Else
Graduate to "Boost's With Flavor", Thats where You Will Stand Out
We all know Rhett purposely sabotaged the sound for the ts-9 and made JHS look incredible as always. Rhett is basically Josh’s bestie 😂
Les Paul + hiwatt has so much inherent mids. Bad combination that's meant to make mid scooped pedals like the blues breaker shine.
Josh makes like 3 different pedals with tube screamer circuits.
All personal preference, I guess. The stock TS9 has a classic kind of sound. The modded no longer sounds like a TS at all. Louder, brighter, less mid hump. Of course, starting with a pretty mid boosted tone is going to be a no-win situation anyway. And hey, you like fuzz in a way that most people don't so there's no accounting for taste. LOL! Good, objective video.
Perfect, it's a personal impression about the sound... I respect it, but at the end it's just an opinion.
Ts808 is far superior to the ts9. Great comparison the modded pedal sounds great
⁰I i9
Terrikfic
Not sure he is very objective. He’s quite opinionated based on HIS ears and HIS amps.
It wold be nice to hear your thoughts in a band setting. Obsessing over “bedroom” tone can be done all day but when your in the mix is another story.
Yep. The second the drums, bass and guitars come in you'll be saying where did I go?
that's where you try to find your spot in the mix,
and it's always different than that perfect bedroom tone you spent so much time on.
As guitar players part of the appeal is we don’t have to care. Thats a producer or sound guys problem. I only care if i sound good. F the rest of the band
@@valvenator ok yoko.
@@Ottophil lol
Very interesting, thanks for the video! But today I was listening to some music that probably use this pedal, and I kept thinking "how would this play out in the context of a band mix?"
I have an interesting story to share: some years ago I was rehearsing with a band in a studio (as a bass player - I don't play guitar), and the guys didn't have my amp of choice (GK 800RB) available at that moment, so they brought in a Hiwatt guitar amp. I told them I wanted a proper bass amp instead, and they said "hey, just try this one out", and I tried it by playing solo a bit. It sounded amazing by itself. So I said, "OK, let's try it out in the rehearsal". Turns out that as soon as the band started, I was buried deep in the mix and couldn't hear myself even with the output decently up. I had to stop the music and ask for an amp switch. In the end, I was right about my instinct: the guitar amp didn't handle my bass sound as it should, which is obvious, since the EQ section of a guitar amp is (and should be) very different than that of bass amps, as the more desired frequency regions are quite different between these instruments. Moral of the story: don't go with the tone by itself to judge a piece of gear unless you're going to play solo. Usually you need to put it in context of the band and music you're going to play to know whether it works.
I love Tube Screamers. Favorite pedal of all time. For years I did gigs and taught with just a TS-808RI abs it acted as a compressor and boost and brought out all the harmonics and made everything easier to play. A Satriani Wah and a TS-808, good fender tube amp or a Marshall and tons of complements of my tone. I would set everything to 2 o’clock or higher abs use amp gain and it would just sing. If you add gain to a TS magic comes through imho and I think it acts as a somewhat of a compressor in a way as it always made legato at low volumes much easier. The SRV 2 TS trick works. I think there’s a big difference between a TS-9 and TS-808. Yes, you can make them sound the same but the 808 is much warmer and if you ever tried the TS-808HW you know what I mean. Tons of warmth. I treat TS like fuzzes and always add amp gain or stack them.
Tube screamer disciple here, I’m a fan of the ts but not for the “edge of breakup” stuff. I use it for hard rock/metal things and I feel like thats where it shines best. Srv fans would disagree with me though lol
The guitar player I work for uses it with a Duel Rec and a Marshall 1987x running at the same time. It sounds incredible. When I saw her set up I was like really? A tube screamer? I tried other drives and never got the same results. It made me a believer. How this guy is using it doesn't do it justice.
I use a TS with my H&K combo. It allows me to back off on the amp overdrive and clean up my rhythm sounds. Then I can use a little TS to up the gain and edge for solos. Works for me!
Trey Anastasio played/plays with 2 TS into a Mesa, at least on his 90s rig which he played for decades.
TS straight into an Orange right here.
@@nickm.9474 To be fair he's an amazing guitar player.The TS is just simply not made for his style and gear.
Horses for courses Rhett, when you kicked on the first TS, it immediately sounded great!
I concur!
Indeed better than the modded one IMO
I'm a strat into a Fender style amp guy so the tube screamer is one of my favorite pedals. That said I also love a Les Paul into a Fender brown panel (or tweed) or early Marshall (jtm) and at times I can live without the TS. To each his own, but the tube screamer isn't going anywhere anytime soon. Great show and glad to hear your opinion even if it's completely wrong, just kidding.
Took me a long time to appreciate what a TS9 does.
A tubescreamer into a more transparent OD sounds incredible.
For my money, the stock TS9 made the best sound in every demo. Pretty subjective, I guess. It just sounds so good.
Hey Rhett, again you show solo sounds. You should show these things in a mix with a band. Cheers.
Ding ding ding 🔔 One of the most important lessons any musician can learn is the way an instrument sounds by itself vs in a mix are two totally different "ball games"
This right here is the right comment. Aside from him setting his amp to the tube screamer from the get go. Lol. But this is the right answer. To my ears here in the room, by myself, this sounds better. But that's not what a guitar pedal, especially this pedal, is really for.
The TS-9 does basically one thing well: pushing metal amps (especially 5150s) harder at the front end. You set the level to 10, the drive to 0, and typically the tone somewhere between noon and 3. If you're doing anything else with it, you should probably look for a better OD pedal. For most Marshall amps, I personally find that a Boss SD-1 sounds better, and tends to be a better OD pedal in general for pretty cheap.
Well, this video put me off buying a TS for ages. Last weekend I dipped my toe in the water buying a Behringer TS clone and really liked it. As Josh Scott says: “If it sounds good it is good”.
It’s subjective of course but I’m glad I bought one.
Irony of ironies… I’m not a tube screamer guy and watched this video to confirm my bias. I think you actually convinced me that I need to buy a stock tube screamer. Go figure
I used only Strat for 30+ years and the TS9 was great for that, now I use a large variety of guitars and amps and the TS9 certainly doesn't fit all. But it usually works great in a band mix, as it positions the guitar firmly in the middle of the frequency range so it doesn't kill off other instruments. I normally use the natural gain from a tube amp, and a Soul Food as boost, which the TS can stack nice with in a mix. My goto for a simple setup, I have a Helix which has "all" the pedals built in, but I seldom use it as it's time consuming to set up. Too many options to get lost in.
I get what Rhett is saying...the Tubescreamer is a specific trip and ain’t for everyone. My Keely modded TS-9 (stacked with a version 3 OCD) works well with my Strat/Fender setup.
A lot of people like to use the tube screamer for single coil guitars through a very clean amp. Usually clean tele to clean fender amp. It’s a great pedal for darkening tone a bit. Particularly useful with a Vox AC30, which is super bright. If you have the budget to have a great amp with its own distortion circuit, those will always beat pedal distortion IMO. For many studio guitarists the tube screamer offers another tonal option that may work for some songs and not work for others.
True, What you say is the truth in the real world.
I don't like TS's own tone at all, but it fits very well in the mix when combined with some guitars and amps.
I record the guitar at work every day. Especially the combination of Telecaster + Tube Screamer + VOX AC30 produces a miraculous tone.
A terrible guitar sound that you listen to alone is often well sit in a mix.
It's strange to me that he's a good professional musician but complains like a bedroom guitar player.
@@134SASAKI hahaha it's true. I adore my TS-type drive for making an amp scream, but I also have a Seymour Duncan Powerstage which is a operating-room-clean class D power amp to send some other preamp into (and is WONDERFUL for that), but a TS into that amp cold is hilariously feeble and unpleasant.
Interesting you say a tube screamer is useful with a Vox AC30 because I've tried a tube screamer with my Vox hand wired AC30 and thought the result was way too much mids. But to each their own...
@@randygomez9595 yeah for sure again taken on it’s own for sure, but can be useful if you need a darkened tone with the ac30
@@134SASAKI I used a tele or strat into an AC-30 with a tube screamer for years until I went to a Fender and a Marshall. Only pedal that sounds better with that rig is a treble booster
I loved this video from early on, when Rhett kicked on the pedal he hates and my reaction was “sounds fucking awesome!” I guess it’s just the millionth reminder that tone is very subjective. I must really like a very mid-focused sound. Love the channel, Rhett!
When I overthink my tone thats when I feel I'm not playing music....
Rhett I love my TS-808 so much I run TWO of them at the same time, gain set to zero on the first one and then just a touch of gain (9:00) on the second one. Magic!
Sounds good I use an Xotic Super Clean boost to goose mine
I never understood the TS hype either. I've tried a bunch, they all sounded boxy.
I prefer my OCD or EVH overdrive for that extra push.
Boxy is exactly the word to describe them
It's for single coils, that's why people love them. Should've used a Strat mate.
Plus he used EL84's....worst tube for screamer's
I love the way that tube screamers boost the mids.
Strat into a bright amp is where the TS excels.
I've never understood why people start with the knobs at noon. It is not a neutral or the "intended" point on most pedals.
On most pedals the output volume is basically a volume drop, so it is often best full to the right. Tone knob in a ts-style or a big muff style tone stack is usually best around 1-2 o'clock. That's the most common setting that sounds good on a tone knob. Distortions knobs usually sound best before the halfway. And fuzzes usually sound best after the halfway point. So everything at 12 the pedals usually adds up the worst parts.
Same with amps. On a Marshall the best starting points usually are the bass knob near zero, mid and treble full, or close to.
You answer by disapproving a generalized approach and then come up with your own generalization. Having said that, I will try those settings :D
I use mine as a boost (actually a powerscreamer). I set up my amp similar to what you described; gain set low to edge of breakup, bass rolled completely off, mids and treble below noon. First distortion in my chain is a Rat clone, then a Timmy. I use the Timmy as my rhythm sound. It then goes through a Keeley compressor, that I either have on all the time with single coils, or use for solos with humbuckers. The last pedal before delay and reverb is the powerscreamer. I find it to be very stackable, especially with fuzz/distortion. I will say this, I wasn't impressed with Rhett's base tone coming from the amp. If your amp tone sucks, no pedal will sound good.
@@runegodly34 a decent point. But there are reasons to those numbers. Eg the tone on ts or Muff cuts highs and lows even at the middle settings, hence why it sounds duller. Turning the tone higher raises the point where the highs are cut and as well as the lows. So you get less lows and more highs. Now at some point the high cut will be negligent, but the knob is still rolling off the low end which will make the sound thin. That's why I say it's common to have it around 1-2. Because it's common for good sounds to have a cut in the low end, and not that much cut in the top end.
The volume pot I explained already. Often it is there to compensate for too much volume caused by the boost of the circuit, so to start with it's intended as more of a gain compensation knob.
And also the gain is similar. It's usually just a pot that regulates how much input you want to go into clipping. There are a few common value pots and most manufacturers just put in one that has a good sounding range. They (mostly) don't care how the pot sounds in the middle. Also the output volume of the guitar is basically acting as the gain knob as well. It would be impossible to have all guitars have the same sweetspot amount of distortion with the gain at noon.
Also on the same point, I don't understand why people match knobs in the same direction instead of listening to make the things sound similar.
The takeaway should be: Don't look at the knobs. Listen to the sound and adjust the pots accordingly.
Here Rhett got a sound that he preferred (the boost with minimal gain) and then in the comparison turned the tone knob to do what he didn't like in the pedal in the first place.
Now this is all not saying that the ts is the most brilliant pedal there is. It isn't, and yes it's slightly over hyped. Especially the ts808.
just turn everything all the way up
IMO it comes down to where the guitar is going to sit in the mix:
Scenario 1 - A guitar driven band with male baritone or lower tenor vocals (Who, Van Halen) - You want the guitar to have a brighter tone so you don't muddy the other parts.
Scenario 2 - A keyboard driven band with higher tenor of female singer. (Phil Collins, Bangles) - The guitar has a more midrange sound
In all you can mix and match, and shuffle what is on top of the mix. Korn, Chili Peppers, and Primus mix the bass on top because the bass carries the songs. Some others will use cymbals and hi-hat to fill that range
No this is the kind of wisdom you hope to get from the internet. Occasionally. After scrolling through the shite
I love the sound of the first ts - softened the brittle sounding amp, I thought.
Something important to remember it's that when people were really getting into the modding thing, there weren't many boutique options in the market. I feel like for a while it was the modded ts9 or a fulldrive. There are so many options now, 20ish years later, that you can find the exact flavor you want and it makes wwaayyy less sense to go the tubescreamer route.
Most people use these for Strats and that's where I think they shine. Amp just at the edge of break up, Drive to zero and push it with the Level and for Heavens sake take it easy with the Tone knob.
It's probably the only overdrive I've kept on my board in my year long history with electric guitar. I don't play metal nor do I play fender style clean amp (although I do think TS does wonders on that). I play blackstar amps which are known for a good bottom end response and classic British warmth and mid range. The thing is TS808 tightens up the bottom end really well, gives a more mid range punch which makes it a great boost for lead sound. A lot of things with stuff that adds character to your sound is how your board and amp are setup. I use a DS1 and since the blackstar has such a warm tone I can put the tone control to 1 o clock and get a really cool 80s rock inspired sound. Both my guitars are strats so turning on the TS just makes it sound good. Although as much as I love this pedal it isn't for everyone. You either love it to the point it's the only OD you'll ever use or hate it so much that you'll use anything but a TS on yoru board.
They work great for strats and a scooped mid amp. Also great for high gain amps to kill the fizz. He’s not being objective at all. Clickbait I guess.
@@denmar355 yup. I can get not vibing with a pedal with a unique voice, but to call tube screamers overrated is just weird. There's a reason it is the most iconic pedal of all time. From blues to metal, you can find a TS pretty much everywhere.
It's the only pedal I keep coming back to after trying SO many new drive pedals
I love Tube Screamers and especially the TS808. I’m a blues guitarist and have been performing for years - the main pedal that gets me that SRV Texas Blues sound out of my Stratocaster and Fender tube reverb amplifier.
That’s not my experience. Replace the TS with a Morning Glory or a more transparent OD pedal and watch the SRV slap and clarity return to your gain. Just my experience…. Also, remember, what sounds good in your bedroom can sound like a muddy mess with a band (unless your amp is cranked to 11 and your speaker is crying. in which case, the TS is a glorified boost to a cranked tube amp and speaker.) That’s why I say SRV sounded good in spite of a TS, not because of one
Just my 2 cents. We’re allowed to disagree
It works well with Fender amps, which are scooped in the mids by their very nature.
Sounds so good with the standard TS! Lots of character and tightness :)
The Strymon Sunset has fixed that issue with many tube screamers. I agree many are muddy sounding and the low end is amplified. Plus some add a bit of reverb as well. The Sunset adds a more gain and top end.
I'd say that it's just your base tone isn't really the type of tone that works well with a TS. I love the TS, didn't like the tones in this video at all. It's a tricky pedal for sure, doesn't sound good for everything but when it does, it's amazing.
I have a ts-10 that I’ve owned since the late 80s. It really matters what guitar you’re using it with and what amp you’re using. It can sound great with the right rig or awful with the wrong rig. Some players that have used the tubescreamer a lot that you didn’t mention are Gary Moore, Joe Bonamassa and Eric Johnson.
I love how Eric Johnson sets up his Tube Screamer to be used only for the bridge pickup of a Strat.
I've never played through a tube screamer, but it's something I've wanted to try. What he's doing with them here sounds good to me, a 70's rock, billy gibbons, black crowes guitar sound is what I'm into, and this seems good for that.
High gain guys love the ts. It tightens up the lowend and cuts great! I personally love em
At a glance, schematically the blues breaker would be less ‘transparent’ than a tube screamer. A tube screamer clipping stage adds the clipped waveform to the non-clipped waveform, but the blues breaker doesn’t. So presumably the ‘transparency’ thing has more to do with the frequency response than the actual clipping, which I think is interesting.
Yeah absolutely - I think that’s exactly what people mean when using the term “transparent” in the context of overdrive; adding drive (clipping) without fundamentally changing the characteristic of the guitar into the amp which really comes from its EQ profile
(Although actually there is of course still an EQ shift with the Bluesbreaker too, as it dumps a fair bit of bass and brightens things up a bit but those are less obvious perhaps than the nasal spot for the mid hump in a TS)
@@cowieson exactly…
If you have the right amp and guitar you don’t really need a tube screamer.. especially if you don’t down tune and or play hard rock or metal.. Sometimes a tube screamer is just what is needed and sometimes it’s just not necessary..
Wait people play in standard? Crazy
The tube screamer makes a lot more sense in the context of a band to stand out. Playing guitar in isolation with a tube screamer is always going to be overly mid forward….
i really enjoy all of your videos on tone
I dig ur honesty but that’s what keeps things interesting! We all have some things that we don’t care for and things we love!! But again,like the honesty!!
So basically, the whole idea of this video is this: "This shepherd's pie doesn't taste anything like that apple pie, or the cherry pie, or the banana cream pie, so it sucks. Now I'm going to change this shepherd's pie so it's exactly like all the other pies, and then it will be awesome!"
Which is really a dumb way of looking at it. Of course it's not like other pedals. It does its own thing. You said you prefer the sound of P90 guitars. Well, if you follow your logic, you shouldn't, because they don't sound like your Les Paul, or your 335, or any of your other guitars that don't have humbuckers.
If somebody doesn't like the way something sounds, that's fine. But to turn around and call that thing junk because they don't like it? Stupid. I don't like John Mayer. But I don't go around saying how he sucks. I just listen to what I like to listen to and get on with my life.
Well most players that love this pedal are hard rock to metal players and not really blues players. So I think you actually understand why people love it. It's more of a "cut pedal" than a boost, because the primary benefit is it to cut the excess lows you get from cranked amps. The added gain is just secondary.
Aren’t SRV and Mayer kinda the poster children of the TS? Pretty sure those guys are blues players.
@@happygster922 Beat me to it!
Me band plays top 40 pop cover tunes, I use a tube screamer, and have gotten a lot of compliments on my tone, so....🤷♂️
A cranked Ts9 into a loud, clean, Fender gets some impressive blues tones, imo
@@happygster922 I did not speak in general terms. And SRV leans more in the "heavy blues" side so yeah.
In fact, I too used a TS-type pedal for my hip-hop/soul band some years ago.
If a person has to do that much modding to the tube screamer, seems like one should buy a different pedal that already satisfies. Also, I would have liked it better if he did not know which tube screamer had been modded before hand. Just knowing will give a person a preconceived bias. Not being there in person, I can't tell much difference. They all sounded perfectly fine to me.
sometimes there are no products in the market that satisfies a person needs
you can get a new ts for like 80 bucks. used they are really cheap. a "better" od is going to be 150-200