Now grow out a long beard and start balding, also make your camera green and start streaming variety please. Just goes to show how wise Aris was for leaving Tekken and foreseeing what was gonna happen to it all those years back. Makes me feel stupid I didn't follow his example and now I'm about to drown on sinking ship because of my addiction to play this shitty game.
Jesus christ is like your read my mind. could you imagine the only reason l brought the PS5 slim just to play this shity wacky ass T8. from TGP with 2 characters in T7 to Tekken king in T8 and l can't barely remember when the last time l launched T8 since is so bored and broken. sad times
You are absolutely right. Strategic gameplay is being punished. Tekken is now a game about who can spam knowledge checks and +frames more aggressively. Combos go for half a minute and rounds have like two interactions. Everyone is overpowered.
Agreed. As a Bryan player, I play or try to play strategically. I try to bait moves from opponents, but most want to spam the cheapest moves over and over. And some of these characters are SUPER cheap.
As other established game delevopers said: When u make a game, u always make it for a target audience. If u make it for everyone, u essentially make it for no one.
This notion that 'we're playing arcade release' needs to stop IMO. It is clear what the intentions are. They want the game to be simpler and want the characters to all be as obnoxious as possible. For the game to get better they'd basically have to rework heat in its entirety whilst also reworking nearly every character in the game, even removing moves. That isn't going to happen, and I believe whilst the game will _change_ it will always be *broken* . I was struck by something Aris said when he was restreaming a Tekken 8 tournament after seeing a player defend something (don't recall specifics). He said something a long the lines of 'Remember when Tekken was full of intricate interactions like that?'.
It's not just Tekken, it's a lot of franchises. To my understanding and logic, it's about abusing the newer generations. They don't know better. They simply don't understand and they're abusing that. Just milk the newer generation dry while the old heads keep them engaged and motivated. And if they speak out, they're called washed out goobers or whatever snd they don't care. It's a rather perfect disaster.
youre probably the only content creator for this game that just gets every problem i have with this game everything is rush down and kill you as fast as they can then its over you dont even get to learn a ton of the time i think people must agree with that because i find myself getting matched against people with 10% dc rate or higher this games gotten super frustrating cause its easy to just throw crazy frames or if youre just standing next to a character it feels like youre in a mix up already even though theyve done nothing
No. Knee and Arslan were the 2 most high profile and vocal critics of T8's gameplay and they toned it down after they got a backlash from other fans not because of their relationship with Namco.
@@atuls55 lmao are you their best friend? youre just pulling that out of your behind because youre a fan of them. its completely possible that it was cuz of Namco - which is also the most obvious option considering Namco previously had the content creators who they got in their pocket damage control for them before like Spag and K-Wiss cuz theyre commentators so they Need Namco. just like how Arslan and Knee need Namco.
@@DaggerPrince Rubbish. I saw the Knee and Arslan's tweets and the respones they got and how they reacted. Knee was surprsed about the size of the reaction to his criticism and decided to step back from that. He was losing a lot too so it looked like sour grapes. Arslan saw that and followed suit and he too was not doing as well in T8 at the time. Look at Fighting GM getting it in the neck for criticizing the gameplay from irate twitter fans but at least with him his performance level hasn't dropped going from T7 to T8.
@@DaggerPrince You're making an unverified claim yourself, so you're pulling stuff from your behind too. Yes, either one is possible, but if you're gonna claim someone is bullshitting then show the evidence. Either take seems reasonable to me.
Frame speaking facts. The worst thing is the casuals have mostly already left and if not they will leave fairly soon. Tekkens stayed relevant cause of the 5% who arent casual about it, doesn't make sense that theyre aiming for the casual audience.
Well if you look at Mortal Kombat, competitively it’s not doing well. However, if you look at sales, it’s outselling Street Fighter and Tekken despite it’s problems. We want our Tekken to be popular and big, but at what cost? To be like Mortal Kombat?
@@chucklos391 well steam charts show nobody plays tekken anymore. while everybodys playing street fighter. i dont know about mortal kombat. doesnt matter anyway. Tekken is dead.
@@DaggerPrincemaybe, but all my steam contacts stopped playing. I used to see like 3-5 people playing t7 at all times for the past few years. Idk. Game isnt fun to play at advanced level anymore. I doubt its sustainable but I just dont care about it anymore.
Quitting the game for the summer was the best decision I've made recently. The improvement in my mental health is really noticeable. Shit just got me frustrated every single time I played. This was a rare occurence in T7. T8 just wont let you breath and relax. Seriously, who the fck needs more stress in their life by playing a video game.
This game is intense. Haha. I actually love Tekken 8. I have decided to take 5-10 minute breaks from really intense matches by turning off the online search. Just need to breathe here and there. It’s one way to pace yourself and keep it enjoyable.
This is exactly how I feel. I took a 2 week break, and my stress level in general was so much better that I now take 2 days off at a time for my health. I had to change my entire philosophy around this game to start to enjoy it, including only playing 1 character at a time (I used to play 15 at a decent level), spending more time labbing in practice than in the game, and doing push-ups when I lose a match to get out some of the cortisol😂. This game is an addiction... and nit as fun as drugs.
@@djw_tekken8490 While in lobby on your favorite stage as you wait for a match, you hit your button to see your settings and you'll see "Match Settings" and from there you can turn off match search under "Match Standby."
You're one of the few people I really respect. Not many people who are brutally honest and actually stand behind their words. I haven't actually bought the game because they had already lost my trust with Tekken 7 so I wanted to see first if things got better and I've just been observing the scene a bit and it just looks to me that I made the right decision.
Played tekken 7 regularly for 4 years. Played tekken 8 regularly for first few months. Haven't touched the game for 2 months now. I think I'm done with the series till the next installment. T8 is a mish mash of wild ideas and monetization. Don't miss playing it at all.
I hate that you're right. As much as I love Tekken, I can't deny it's becoming a cesspool in monetisation. The Tekken Talk isn't even really anything special, it's just a huge ad for products. It's sick. Not to mention how Bamco lifted the embargo a day early and a bunch of info about Lidia released before the talk making the investment to watch it unnecessary. Like what are they doing? The only thing I appreciate is the fact they added a cheaper option for Tekken Coins so you can now get the battle pass for cheaper, but then I question why it wasn't there before? Like hello Bamco? Wtf are you doing?
I learned how T7 frame data works from one of your videos. Thank you for that. I hope you get successful just like Aris when he stepped away from Tekken.
The sad part is even the passion we have for tekken isn't enough to keep us around, the game we love is going in a really bad direction and am super sad to see that
It's been a downward spiral since the start of Tekken 8. Namco has shown that they care more about monetization and busted DLC rather than making Tekken what it used to be: Difficult and exhilarating. I played Tekken 8 last night and I found that I could only do so for less time than I usually would when I grinded ranked. Elden Ring has had my attention for these past couple days and I am in love with the game all over again. In addition to other games that I look forward to in my Steam wishlist. It's a shame that Tekken has turned out like this, but we don't have to take it, we can just stop. Take care Frame.
The latest balance patch has improved this game, theoretically. But also like you, I can't play this game for extended periods of time. I can only play it on my "on" days. On my "off" days, there's no hope, it's just too frustrating even with the balance changes.
@@fatman9183 Yes, but even on the "on" days the game's aura drains your life essence. If Bamco didn't fumble so hard, people would love the game more, myself included. But nope, SALES SALES SALES and Chipotle burritos
i think "tiktokification" is a great way to put it. The over-accessibility which ultimately just means mish-mash of inoffensive/non-challenging engagement, huge push for monetization and marketing, getting every e-celeb under the sun to play and talk about the game to get all the cool hip youngsters on board, it just sucks and feels really cynical. I love when I can at least FEEL a game was made to be sick first, profitable second, but things feel the opposite with this one.
@@DeadpoolX9 second this, legit one of the few examples of a game where the developers where like fuck everything else, lets just make all this cool shit
@@DeadpoolX9 *cough Elden Ring has a shit ton of copy pasted layouts and enemies on a supposed to be huge map with subpar enemy design and it's "open world" for the sake of open world. It's lazy and bloated just to make it look big. Try again.
I respect your honest opinion on the topic. My optimistic hope has always been that the push for monetization through cosmetics can help the issue of separating sales from game balance. Aside from the actual practices and implementation quality, do you see this as a possibility?
I would say the optimism you express is far from warranted based on every choice we've seen them make with T8. Even if you somehow are right and having literal ads on characters is the price we have to pay for better balance, I'd rather choose neither. Having said that, congratulations on your fantastic theoretical content. It really is next level. Best of luck with it all, genuinely.
@@LXRDKVRAMA But then they atleast dont say we made the game froim the ground up stop defending every bad dev choice it really helps u in the long run dude but u do u
Addiction is bad, dude. I didn't play Tekken 7 for a while, for two years. And now I'm really, really conscious about what I play. At all times. I don't do a day job thing, I have to stay sober and calm around the clock. But, like, taking their "embarrassements" to heart and this close is something that we're different about. I'm, on the contrary, get upset over a lot of things. But a big company going for money is not a big thing. It's not news in any way. So letting that into your heart... like, they are not at fault that you feel that bad: YOU'VE let them in. They don't have to be and they don't even ask you to. If they take up so much real estate -- then fuck them. There's too much shit in the world to let it into your heart. Let's talk about good things instead. You were my calm guide to Tekken 7 (to a person rediscovering the rules of the game after T3). A person with clean speech, great analysis skills, clear head. And you were my respectful opponent of the higher level, very friendly, very cool to play with. Then the streams descended into rude jokes, calling people cocksuckers for a goof, constant outrage at yourself AND the game. For what?.. Tutorial content did not disappear, but became diluted in that to some extent. I'm sure that attracted that type of crowd, too. Sad at heart, cynical. Which is not great. The one you refer to, "that type of streamer who rages for entertainment". No, that's not cool, cause these streamers pretend or enjoy it, but you do take it to heart while doing the whole "I'm a cynic till I die" thing. It never felt good to me. I just wished you a good stream, but tuned out once you got off the rails, playing for hours angry at night. I know it's normal -- doesn't mean it's good. I was very happy to have you be that calm, interested guide. So it's 100% better to step away from something that hurts that guide. But please just don't let your rage off the hook. Your daily life and years of it really doesn't deserve to be poisoned with that. Fuck both the scoundrels AND the little devil who nudges you to bite and be upset. Fuck them both. Question them both. You're good at that. You're very very good at that. With love, your long time viewer.
Yea I hopped off his streams when it felt like total doom posting. Play something else or go outside and irl stream it can't be healthy being so genuinely upset over an electronic toy.
It took them a long time to finally destroy this franchise, but Harada finally managed to do it. Great job. And, honestly, I'm actually happy to see this dumpster fire, because it's obvious that at his point Tekken can't be saved, so I don't have to choose what fighting game to focus on. Cause in February I was like "wow, this Tekken game is really good, but SF is also good, and it seems like they've fixed a lot of issues in GG, what game should I play". Now the answer is clear: I'm gonna play a game that has an active player base and doesn't agressively shit in my face. Thanks, Harada.
Dumbed this game down so bad. So much in fact my 12 year old niece just got to orange ranks with king just by mashing. She never played tekken in her life. It's a dam shame.
As a Tekken veteran (since Tekken 3) and a Gamer since the 3rd gen consoles. I noticed Tekken in even number intervals 2,4,6,TT2,8; usually attempt something very experimental, almost making the franchise unrecognizable to hardcore Tekken fans. Then with odd number installments including the original 1,3,TT1,5,7 Tekken goes back to its roots and fixes what didn’t work in its previous iteration. Thus, making Tekken feeling like TEKKEN again. So, this might be the case with Tekken 8. When Tekken 9 is released either, a decade from now or only a few years after T8’s debut. We will be treated to a refined, definitive and perfected version of T8. As was the case with T3, T5 and T7. With that being said though, another factor that plagues gaming. And it’s the main reason why, I barely dabbled into the 8th gen era of video games (except for Tekken 7 and other obscure titles); and is the catalyst for NOT owning a current 9th gen console. is… Gaming as a whole, just isn’t FUN anymore. Major game releases are just copy & paste sequels, remasted IP’s, repetitive mindless soul sucking online multipplayer shooters or failed overhyped flops; all of which, demand micro transactions & day 1 DLC. It’s the reason why, simple games like Minecraft, Fortnite, Star Wars: Hunters and most recently released ‘Chained Together’ are undoubtedly way more fun than “Triple AAA game titles” meant to revolutionize gaming that are boastfully developed with a multimillion budget yet, lack overall quality. Gaming has become franchised and too mainstream. As technology advanced for gaming the hobby regressed into a form of escape and loathing. Gaming no longer has soul, creativity and ingenuity that made this passive hobby so memorable, loved and entertaining.
One of the good things about Tekken 8 is that it opened the niche back up. Sega has the opportunity to make a proper 3D fighting game again. If fortune and ambition is on their side, they could rise and knock Tekken from its high horse. All it takes is a visionary director and some well invested money. Many of us are hungry. Hungry for blood. not Chipotle.
Bro hit the nail on the head. Ive played tekken previously but never committed cause it seemed too hard. Then bang tekken 8 releases and its easy to play mechanics sucked me in, i could pick a character, mash heat engage, heat smash, heat burst, heat dash, power crush, rage art, all these noob mechanics and get wins. It felt good when i was a noob. Im now approaching 1000 hours and have reached tekken king rank which isnt the highest but for me was my goal and only now do i see how unfun, cheap and casino like these mechanics that initially sucked me in to the game really are. Im now at a point where its like do i really want to quit playing and waste all the time and effort spent to learning all of my character? This shit sucks for real.
I saw a video titled "Tekken 8 player tries Tekken 7 for the first time" where the guy says that T7 is more defensive and he prefers it that way. If Tekken 8 fails to satisfy the audience it wanted to satisfy the most, that means there must be some serious flaws in it's design.
Tekken 7 was more defensive but it was boring defense, it's more interactive in Tekken 8 where you have to make more active decisions compared to T7 where you do nothing and just try to backdash all day
@@X_The_Ynot sure i agree, if someone is backdashing means someone is chasing making it interactive. Just watch knee dash block while chasing and you realize the freedom in the movement (since it's cancelable on every frame) Is infinitely deeper than being frame locked by a heatdash, or getting stance mixed on block.
We love you man because of your integrity, conviction and expertise, none of us want to see you miserable. Would be incredible to watch you play other games and do what's most fun for you.
The problem with Tekken 8 doesn't just end with the balancing and catering to Casuals more, but it is even more worse in my opinion as the base game itself is a whole mess. A game of that price with no good netcode (The server is there just to record matches and it is joke, because it still feels like a Peer to Peer based) and full of bugs even after delayed further due to SF6 release then all the reason dev give is "it is hard to have a good rollback based netcode for 3D game" (like no other game actually made a 3D game with decent Rollback based netcode). The standard Fighting Game community give to their game is so low it will only enable the devs to do whatever they want with anything because they know if they can get away with 1 then they can get away with anything at this point. As for balance, aggressive play just does not have a single risk in this game compared to how Drive system is in Street Fighter 6 does (You spend too much you are screwed up). It is funny how I love to watch both Tekken 7 and Street Fighter 5 (SF5 after capcom fix their whole mess) tournament but now it is Tekken 8 and all I can remember is "Oh SF6 tourney, hell yeah" meanwhile Tekken 8 tourney just does not feel as entertaining as Tekken 7 at all. It is just sad to see the game in this state and all the company care is how to monetize the game even more instead of just fixing all the problem first or at least the half of it
I absolutely agree on everything here. Tekken 8 is a game where it's all about "how many buttons can I press to win" because of flash and substance. It's a truely frustrating experience when mashing becomes a staple thing that gets you a win over technique and finesse. Watching Tekken 7 was always a blast with what top level play was. Watching Tekken 8 matches is "oh that's super plus on block gotta guess this 50/50". To give insight on this to people who read this comment. I grinded to GoD rank online. Was the most miserable experience imaginable. I'm also a Shaheen main. When half the matches are aginest characters that have far superior advantages over what yours can do (Jin, king, Feng to name a few). You have to question why the developers made them like that. I know I sound like I'm complaining but I totally do t get why "making it flashy" was the direction of T8. Fans of the series including myself would have been hyped as hell if Tekken went back to its roots without any gimmicks and solely relied on old school neutral like in Tekken 5. My wife can't tell you how many times I would play and she would hear "why tf is that guaranteed?!" Or "this character is nonsense". I really hope the game gets better overall in terms of substance. I can't play in major tournies like I would like to due to being a dad of 2 kids and having other priorities in life. However online is the closest thing I can experience. I'll try to be optimistic going forward, but man T8 is just a weird mess of a game and truely a slap in the face to longtime fans of the series.
Also adding on this comment, like frame said when this game is catered to people who don't even play tekken it's rather frustrating. Prime example Of this is a lot of Rage Quits, and a ton of people criticizing you that your a "sweaty no life loser". I can barely get any matches after becoming GoD. However if I do I get rage quit on, or just criticized for playing well against casual players. So this games community can be pretty stupid to be honest. I'm not saying everyone is like this...but like a strong majority of the online players have this mentality.
Wtf, are you a different version of me? Because I swear to god I would write those exact words. I have 2 kids, and my wife would hear me say exactly those words. Except I play Hwoarang, hehe 😂 But damn, you wrote what exactly what I would have written. Best of luck! 🙏
I felt like this watching evo. It just felt like I watched someone just out aggressing the other. It didn't feel like I was watching the strategic tekken of old.
I predicted this 2 weeks after release. No skill when approaching, no thought when attacking, endless pressure and forced block strings and endless 50/50s. The truth is this game was fated to die
Good for you on stepping back from it dude! Your videos played a big part in getting me back into the series when 8 first released. Compared to most of what you see out there it's been so refreshing to see someone regularly calling this kind of horseshit out, rather than just playing along with a fake smile because there's views/money/free guac at stake.
Namco is arguably one of the worst entertainment companies in the world, look at their history of how they treat their other IPs and franchises and you'll see that what they're doing with Tekken is not even the worst out there (there are youtube videos on this). Now that they're not doing so well financially, they're trying to milk the cow dry as much as possible.
That's an utterly idiotic argument. Much like "Michael Jackson made Thriller." Namco made Pac-Man. Maybe you're too young for it or don't like arcade games (in which case the fuck are you playing fighting games, all fighting games are arcade games), but to just say Namco is so bad and have ALWAYS been that way is just dismissing all the years of greatness that came before a shitty Tekken game. Get a fucking grip.
Matchmaking is another huge problem in Tekken 8 that shows Bamco's incompetence. It really shouldn't be that hard to make a ELO/Glicko based system, but instead of doing that, they made matchmaking so much worse by forcing prowess (a gimmick stat that was never made for matchmaking) into it. They also stealth patched it into the game and refuse to talk about the litany of issues with prowess.
It's unfortunate that the great potential of T8 has been sidelined to line Namco's pockets. What is even more concerning however is how certain FGC communities seem to be completely ignorant of the same things happening to their games. We can see that SF6 has much more positive reviews and reception overall, yet they have had multiple sponsorships and partnerships such as with Chipoltle of a similar nature to Tekken, they have had overpriced DLC characters, they have had content cut from the game so it can be sold later (ie. a small roster at launch to sell characters later) they have had a shop introduced post-launch with prices even worse than Tekken, and they have had a lack lustre battle pass introduced post-launch, yet no one seems to care??? It is concerning what the FGC and the gaming community in general is coming to these days.
they do care i have seen compains even on tekken forum. the diffrence is, SF put out a completly new game, new animations, models and everything else. meanwhile, tekken hast the same 20 year old animations, copy paste character models, dollfaces with no animations when the same company had a game where facial animatioan and faces in general, where far superior, costumization downgraded, stages are boring AF, graphics not even THAT good (cmonme guys, we have 1 stage with 2 characters), ghost are useless and... yeah, that was what comes to mind right now. honestly too much to remember lol + the online is good, tekken online, can be good! i only played SF6 for ~20hours, but the game felt like quality everytime i played it. T8 does not at all.
Very ignorant comment. Following the common internet trend of “just because I don’t see it, it can’t exist or have been occurring”. To use your example SF6 has had many of issues, particularly with its monetisation model and has faced a TON of scrutiny on the online forums but as the comment above reads most of the negativity is not to do with the actual gameplay element which has been most received well - contrary to tekken 8 that legitimately has inherent gameplay system flaws. Do your research before denouncing some warped FGC lack of awareness
@@endlesscrusadeid say that the newer dystem tekken 8 has def does need improvement Remember that they always added something new inevery installment and apparenty ppl will vomplain abt the new thing everytime because "it is not like tekken" And tbh while this channel does point out many flaws the game has...id advise ppl to not dwell in it too much because of the negativity. Not that criticism is bad ofc but yknow whay i mean. Imo tekken 8 is doing okay, as long as they keep the momentum and they continue to communicate with the fommunity then i think we should give em credit when its due
>buy fighting game >don't care about DLC because the base roster has a lot of different playstyles >don't care about the shop because cosmetics >have fun with the fighting game >this is somehow confusing
sajam, one of the largest voices in the youtube fgc community, released a video criticizing fgc monetization 3 months ago. the culture does notice, and there is discourse, it's just probably not as large as it needs to be
I definitely agree. This game is unforgiving and not complete. Everyone has payed $70+ but the experience of each individual player is different based off of their main they want to play. If you aren't playing one of the "chosen" characters that are insanely OP, you will tend to have more of a miserable time playing. I am playing a less popular character and am having a tough time dealing with the S tiers. Either they have projectiles, guard break on heat, have some sort of stun ability on heat, insane tracking, broken power crushes or all of the above. While quite literally my character has none of those abilities (and others on the roster). It does not make for a good time. And Let's not talk about the broken hit/hurt boxes.
finally a prominent tekken youtuber says the game is bad! haven't heard a single pro come out and say anything negative about this game. it seems everyone is paid off by bamco to keep quiet. Thank you framewhisperer. we missed you man and thank you for bringing this to light. The game is garbage and is riddled with issues
@@Invader.Xim. I do agree with you, but Tekken 7 in my opinion wasn't as hyper casualized as this game. the tekken identity has been completely thrown out the window in favor of making the game appeal to the masses - gauge bar, shop, arcade lounge, battlepass, dumb casino style gameplay that was made to "look good on stream" rather than make the game actually fun. All these decisions make the game diluted down to just a 3d anime fighter and not a good Tekken experience. Even bringing heihachi back is just a cash grab. Absolutely disgusting decision on their creative part. Keep that dude dead for God's sake, that was the whole point of T7.
@@mugen016 🤔 have you never played Tekken revolution or the 3d characters in 7? Geese basically had a heat bar. I think if the think people complain about most is a shop then your game is fine (considering Tekken 7 Made you pay for frame data) and so what if heihachi is back? I agree to keep him dead but he can’t be a playable character? Look at bison and noob saibot, they are dead but always playable
@@Invader.Xim. Yeah and no one liked those gauge characters like geese or that game. Guage is not a Tekken thing, and in my opinion shouldn't belong in a Tekken game. The game was gritty and intense without it, and now they want to try and appeal to everyone by adding a Gauge meter as opposed to doubling down on the formula that made them so unique and great. As for the shop, yeah not a good look. Especially with Chipotle deals and what not. Disgusting. Heihachi? Playable could be ok. But they literally brought him back into the story. The fact that he is alive and well, even when hirada said he is dead for real this time, is absolute trash. Its an obvious cash grab, and they're too lazy to make new characters. Keep him dead. It was great for the story.
@@mugen016 😭 wdym no one? Akuma and geese were super strong characters and popular especially in tournaments. The chipotle deals that give u a free outfit is bothering you? 🤔 also kazuya died and also came back but no one complained until now. It was great for the story but let’s be fr who cares about the tekken story. Fighting game stories are all dog shit and tekken hasn’t had a good story since Tekken 4.
I'm in blue ranks and I find myself not even having the heart to give it my all in matches anymore. Maybe 5% of the time, you'll have a great set where you're both putting up a fight with defense, respect and pokes, and the matches are close and feel satisfying. The other 95% of the time, you're either steamrolling someone or getting steamrolled, and the FT2/match is over before it even has a chance to breathe (as you put it). Matches that are like this make you feel like crap after they're done, whether you win or lose. And when there's no infinite rematch feature that would give players the chance to adapt to the opponent's playstyle, what's the point in even rematching? Playing a bunch of random online bums in Tekken 8, with no ability to infinite rematch, is simply soul-sucking. Between this and the messed up matchmaking (prowess) which is forcing me to not play Ranked, my motivation to play this game is dying out. There are too many problems that, when added together, make it not worth my time in its current state.
I can really see how jaded you have gotten and it saddens me to no end. I've been out of the Tekken scene since the first month/weeks of T8 release - since my computer can't get stable FPS - and I only see snapshots of what's going on in the community here and there; it's really sad to see what's going on. In any case, massive respect for voicing your opinion honestly and being straightforward. I know where your heart lies in terms of the franchise from all the content I've seen of you over the years and knowing that, this is very hard to watch. My heart goes out to you and the Tekken community. Lots of love from Finland. You don't know me and I don't really know you, but I just wanna tell you that I love you man. I might be several beers in at this point, but don't hold that against me. Anyways, much love ❤
I remember playing tekken for my first time and learning from your t7 leo's video. Haven't touched t8 in a month, it's frustrating beyond belief and you've done a good job at describing why. How fitting that my teacher feels the same. Hopefully it's just a pause in a journey and not the end, we'll see :)
17:03 This is exactly it. This game brings out the worst in me-every fucking session. I end up saying "fuck this game" whenever I'm done. I guess I just wasn't made to play and fully enjoy this game, sadly. And that makes me really sad, because it's my favorite franchise.
The "casualisation" of online ranking play is what made quit after the first month. That includes easy and faster ranking system as well as removing infinite rematches. I reached Fujin in a couple of weeks then lost interest quickly. Took me 2 years to reach Fujin in T7 tho. As for the casualisation of Gameplay it was very bad in the beginning but it is getting better with patches. Still can't get over how long the combos are niw.
@LuckyRaphi To "play like a Fujin" you had to go through a long daunting learning journey full of demotions and long sets of death matches which the ranking system provided in T7. In T8 i hardly learned the new mechanics or match ups yet reached Fujin quickly, i just rely on a certain flow chart that worked well and that's it. Whereas in T7 that would have never worked because infinite rematching made sure your opponents adjust to your flow chart forcing you to innovate and modify your playstyle. Which resulted in you becoming a real offense expert versed in how to open up your opponent's defense. As well as accumulating a huge knowledge of the game's character match ups and expertise on how to deal with each character. Same can't be said in T8. In T8's bo3 all you are doing is either overwhelming your opponent with flow charts and couple of set ups or getting overwhelmed by his. That's not fun for me. I won against alot of people while i know they would smoke me if infinite rematches still existed.
@@GORO911 he still got all these skills from Tekken 7 so fujins in Tekken 8 will be naturally easy. And I was fujin in Tekken 7 I never did death matches, or training mode. So I steamrolled Tekken 8 until blue ranks but then it got harder
@LuckyRaphi Well. If infinite rematching is brought back and implemented in T8 i guarantee you you won't be steam rolling any ranks. You will be demoted and it will take time to regain your blue rank again. 🙂
@@GORO911 you should be able to counter cheesy moves when you saw them a few times. No need for infinite rematches. There's no excuse if you lose a bo3 because of knowledge checks. Tekken 8 is more difficult and if you need an hour to adapt to your opponent you didn't deserve the win in the first place.
The crazy thing is; tekken 7 got popular over time BECAUSE it was hard. BECAUSE it was complex. Gamers are tired of everything getting casualized. A lot of people moved to tekken for this, including me. All they had to do was make the same game look nicer and add stages and characters, customization, some new modes. That’s it… That being said, i still enjoy t8, just not as much as I did 7. I think it’ll move into the right direction over time, gameplay-wise. Or the gameplay philosophy in general.
I have stepped away. Been a fan from the first time I saw Tekken 3. 1. The opening of online store was the main reason. I just felt betrayed. If I knew there was to be a store inside the game, I would have NOT bought the game. 2. Dont like the heat 3. No Lei Wulong
Damn, i thought im the only one feel that way. Im a noob and im a defensive player. Make sense that im stepping away from T8. Not that i'll go back to T7 mind you, with all its tracking bullshit. But im genuinely feel bit sad that now that i have time to properly play tekken, this happened. Well, hope to see you soon man! Whatever video you make or game you play👍🏽
Yeah I’m right there with you man. I stopped playing 8 as well. Tekken 7 was my life for 10 years and I was so excited for 8. But right from the get go it felt…wrong. If you can mash one button and succeed something is very wrong with your game. To me Tekken isn’t supposed to be a mash fest. Hopefully they learn from this and one day 8 will just be that dark period in tekken history that we don’t talk about.
Had a similar experience. In the beginning i was like „that shit is mega fun, its just fun.“ and i put like 700h in like a mad man. And now i haven’t touched the game in over 2 months. Too often rounds are decided by a guessing game, they are always decided by guessing games in fighting games, but the heat stuff is so forced, so little counter play, so one dimensional. Its for sure preference, i bet there are also a lot of people which appreciate the simplicity of a heat smash on block into mid/low , but if you have seen it 1000 times , it becomes annoying. Obviously not EVERY single game is decided by these situations, but the match flow gets interrupted by heat stuff in a not enjoyable way , for me personally. Its mega powerful AND cheap AND so simple, that even a monkey understands heatsmash into mid/low AND every character has it.
The commercialisation of Tekken in general seems forced like crazy. No natural development towards a healthy e-sports community but just loads of money to lure people into events and buying products. Also, I don't know what it is but Tekken 8 makes me rage way more than Tekken 7 has ever been able to. There are very few matches were I actually understood everything that happened on the screen. All the other matches have random crushing, clipping, side switches, unforeseeable character turnarounds, tracking, hitbox issues and so on. And I've been playing since Tekken Tag Tournament 2, so it's probably not a skill issue.
Bro u think u r the only one feeling that way? Me and my friend have been playing tekken since T3, tekken is literally our game we grew up with it and mastering its most difficult techniques and combos was our passion and we played at such high level that ppl in the community loves watching us but when this dumb fk tekken 8 came out it took my friend only 3 weeks to leave the game for good and me left it after only a month. Dumbing down the game has been the stupidest decision ive seen just to make the noobs happy, we spent so much time to master movement, just frames and perfect electric, JFSR, the taunt jet upper and now all that gone coz anyone can do much much more by just pushing one button “heat” its ridiculous.
I feel like tekken in general is one of those games that is really fun to play offline with someone but playing by yourself online can easily become miserable
I liked your video a lot, my dude. I just quit Tekken 8 -- legitimately considering revoking the license off my Steam, as I put so much time into Kazuya and his execution that it is hard to step away from. But I'm now going to give SF6 a go. The only critique I have of your video is about the Kazuya and Paul buffs -- while Kazuya is a very played character, his win rate is pretty bad due to his execution requirement. As the poster boy, he's going to be played a lot. He was stupid strong in Alpha, but they then over nerfed him to the point he was legitimately unstable. They then buffed him (I assume with the intention of fixing his instability), but that didn't really fix his stability in my opinion at all besides homogenizing his combo routes. All I really wanted instead of the damage increase is for him to not have T-rex arms and not one of the most godawful jabs in the games on a character that is typically defensive. They did not do that, however, and just amped up his 50/50 to a point in which it's pretty crazy. I really miss T7 Kazuya, because after nerfing many of his properties from 7 and not fixing those but just buffing other moves instead, he feels very different but in a bad way. He's definitely stronger, but Tekken 7 characters and Tekken 8 characters are kind of hard to compare because of how fundamentally different they are, For Paul, even with his buffs, he is still not a super high tournament pick because many of his heat engagers have abysmal tracking. Mwkan7 released a video on this a bit ago and it is an interesting watch. This isn't me saying though the underplayed characters shouldn't receive love. I just wish they would rise the skill ceiling on many of the new characters they introduce and make their moves more dynamic (dynamic instead of over tuned being the keyword here) because while you can get good by learning their move set, there will be a handful of moves so overturned that you don't have to use those whatsoever. The balance in T8 is really fucking bad, and it's why I don't pay attention much to tier lists. Everybody just makes tier lists for the clicks immediately after a patch, but it's really hard when the game is this mangled to try and give a coherent evaluation of it besides the ones that are glaring, with things that are still being discovered broken about the game. People complained about Akuma with seven, but Akuma has a significantly higher execution requirement than pretty much any of the T8 characters which are presently broken. But this isn't to say the T7 DLC characters had high execution, cause many of them did not, and many of them were indeed broken. I still think, though, in T8 the power gap between top tier characters and low tier characters is bigger collectively. Something about T8 though feels like really depressing and seeing it this way makes something inside of me feel like it is both withering and dying. The way players play the game is just fucking miserable, albeit incredibly effective in the T8 enviroment. The game caters to people playing in incredibly reckless and capricious ways that really punishes those that took the time to get accustomed to the typically patience required in Tekken.
Tekken 8 is the Soulcalibur 6 of the Tekken series. Bloated with braindead mechanics and gimmicks. Hyper focused on style over substance aka just explosions of hit sparks. And it seems like it just doesn't have a clear identity of who it really wants to appeal to. All these colors are equating to brown like you said.
"I'm sad because my fighting game of choice lives under capitalism and is forced to be sponsored like other sports and artistic endeavors." should really lead to "We need to pay workers more and tax the rich so that the profit motive can be curb stomped into the ground and we can have art/games/sports without capitalistic advertisement."
Not to sound like a dick, but I always considered you to be one of the most perceptive Tekken content creators, and honestly I'm a bit disappointed it took you this long to see this game for what it is 😅. Personally, being a long time fan of the franchise, I saw the writing on wall few years back, and realized Tekken is never going to be the game again that I fell in love with. From casual perspective, its story was ruined. From game play perspective, it was obvious to me by the T7, that Harada and the team were creatively bankrupt. No future vision of the franchise. T7 to me was like a well executed horror monster cross over movie. Like Alien vs Predator or something lol, but instead of horror monsters it was T5 gameplay + 2D mechanics sprinkled on top. Yeah, it's fun the first time around, but the fact they were doing it, means the creative energy is gone and franchise has come to its end. So, I've stopped playing the game and turned it into spectator sport (and T7 was good spectator sport). But then as soon as they revealed the heat mechanics and went all aggressive with "aggression", I knew T8 is going to be a shit show. The game is atrocious to watch, can't even imagine what is it like to play. I've tried watching EVO on Aris' YT, and ended up watching the 3rd strike, at least that is fun 2D game, unlike this identity crisis mess we have in T8. You are right, the game is fundamentally broken on design level, and no amount of patching is going to fix it. I'm just sorry for you, other members of community and competitors for having to through rude awakening...
"You can get excited about it, or you can get stress-related eczema" OMG i love you, Frame ! 😂😂😂😂😂 Edit : Your unwavering integrity is your trademark. Never forget it. Edit 2 : Obviously, you're not the only one here. I also stepped away from the game a little after Eddy came out. Same reasons as you.
Was so excited for this game, a lot of SF players like me love the defensive , methodical playstyles, i loved tekken 7 and was going to main Tekken 8. The first time they showed heat on stream i knew it was screwed.
For some reason, people refuse to believe that the top players and influencers were secretly approached in an effort to do damage control. Pay people off to get them to speak positively, or at least get them to stop saying negative things. Its business and trust me........this happened.
@@PhokingiLL-m7y "Our Glorious Leader Harada has hereby declared this game excellent. We must thank him for giving us the excellence that is Tekken 8. Please ignore all tweets from us previously that may have stated otherwise."
I just started to learn Shaheen, so I'll be entertained for a while. Once I get him more around my main, I will have to step away too. Shit is frustrating and the monetization just makes me sick and sucks my enjoyment. I'm glad your mental is doing good, and I'm excited to keep watching your stuff whatever it ends up being
How tf did they go from tekken 7, amazing roster, vibes & decisions & marketing to… 7 months in we still have a buggy laggy boring 1 & doneing ahh mess in tekken 8? God tekken 8 sucks
I was playing Tekkens since 3 and more committed since T6. This January I was playing and noticed every match was very similar in style as in it's mostly exchange of aggression. I got bored and stopped playing immediately... This video just popped up and at least I see I'm not alone. Might revisit it in few months. I recommend GT7 in VR on PS5. It's a lot of fun :D
At the risk of nobody reading this essay: 1. Thank you for all the content released, it takes a lot of effort to put out 2 hour, detailed videos and it can be a very ungrateful job. 2. Hope you have a good time with whatever you decide to do next and hope it's not the end for the channel. 3. I completely understand what you're saying. I have 13k hours on DotA 2, have been playing since invite only beta, have organized community wide events, official leagues, been a coach and participated in both ranked and league play. I stopped playing altogether a year ago due to changes I really disliked and I thought were mostly put in the game to appeal to new/lower skill players. It's been years of these changes and at some point I think they just reached critical mass and game became so bland and unfun that I thought quitting was the best idea. My life's been much better since. 4. I like to play Tekken on occasion, but it isn't my main game. I have struggled with getting consitent fun out of the game since T7 and while I still occasionally open T8 and play a couple of matches it is as you said: very difficult to enjoy the game at times. I have never had these feelings about any other fighting game: they're always straight up bad (in my opinion) or great and fun (at least most of the time). Hope they do realize they will not live off casual players for long as you can't really shove a fighting game down their throats and make them play it. Eventually they too will consider this boring and unsatisfying. STAY STRONG
That’s what happens when you design a game for people that don’t play it. Hopefully they slowly tone things down now that it’s mainly just tekken fans left playing
This is the exact reason why I have to drop this franchise. It bears heavy on the heart that my once all time favorite fighting game has become reduced to this anime-ish , Western-audience pandering, 3D fighting excuse of what once made it great. Your video actually opened my eyes as to why things are in this current status. Over-commercializaton, and mainstreaming it by making it more flashy and stylish than it was necessary. Tekken for me always stood out cuz instead of seeing it like just a fighting game, me being a hand-to-hand, close quarters combat, martial arts weeb, it was more like the closest possible fighting game simulator. And that spirit has been thrown out of the window. Truly a tragedy There was a sense of grittiness and realism
Wherever we go, your videos made me fall in love with Tekken and have made my years. Your humour, level headedness, recognition that this is a video game, and honestly more importantly your integrity is ever-refreshing. Even if I’ve disagreed on occasion, wherever you go with your channel I’m eagerly waiting and happy for ya. My goat, the RLM of Tekken. P.S. TRY INSCRYPTION GODDAMIT, love you.
I’ve been saying for years…NERFING FIGHTING GAMES WON’T MAKE CASUALS WANT TO PLAY! They’re too intimidating and most people are scary! My niece n nephews are fortniters,2k’ers,gta’ers and when I talk fighting games,their whole attitude changes. I can see them getting nervous,tekken 8 and sf6,I put on easy controls and they STILL sucked!
@TeryonTheHuman it's honest,nerfing fighting games hasn't made casuals want to play them more. It doesn't work that way. It's not like fighting games don't sell well,they do. The top gaming streamers play everything else but fighters. Fighting games intimidate people too much and require you to actually know what you're doing. You can't micro transaction your way to being good or depend on a team. People have to want to learn fighting games all on their own. Reducing the skill gap doesn't work. If it did,Dive Kick and Fantasy Strike would be popular games. Especially fantasy strike since it's free lol
@@sadetwizelve i’m so glad this genre is growing, selling well and making people like you want to leave by being easier because you sound a little ridiculous lmao. Street Fighter and Tekken have sold and retained more players than ever before by streamlining the games. Thats indisputable factual information and simple math. FG’s are bigger than they’ve ever been, even guilty gear saw a quadrupling of its playerbase by “dumbing down” the game with strive. For every one of you they lose, 10 more replace you
I feel you, I mostly agree with you, I used to play 1/2hours a day Tekken 7 and now I barely play the same in a week in Tekken 8, another problem is that Bandai Namco has the monopoly of 3d fighting game, so we don't have any substitute of Tekken 8 to play instead and they know that.
I still play t7. I requested a refund for t8 but it was rejected as I was over the 2 hour limit. I hope they use my money to develop t9. Cos t8 seems to be stubbornly determined to cater noobs
Yup it really hurts to see hyped frame at the start and frame now. I was as hyped as you but now i dont have fun anymore. I dont know if i can continue like this.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี : คู่มวยแห่งยุค (11 ตุลาคม 2567)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aTc7-tPYuJM/mqdefault.jpg)
Now grow out a long beard and start balding, also make your camera green and start streaming variety please. Just goes to show how wise Aris was for leaving Tekken and foreseeing what was gonna happen to it all those years back. Makes me feel stupid I didn't follow his example and now I'm about to drown on sinking ship because of my addiction to play this shitty game.
I'll keep the hair
This should be top comment
like TotalBiscuit when it came to WoW, he called all the bullshit and seen the game changing and was right
Jesus christ is like your read my mind. could you imagine the only reason l brought the PS5 slim just to play this shity wacky ass T8. from TGP with 2 characters in T7 to Tekken king in T8 and l can't barely remember when the last time l launched T8 since is so bored and broken. sad times
Me but with mortal kombat
YOU WILL BUY THE BATTLEPASS, YOU WILL BUY TEKKEN COINS AND YOU WILL ENJOY CHIPOTLE.
Real harada? Pls make jin stronger than S plus tier
1984
It isn't even remotely necessary to purchase any of that, and nobody advertised it as such
ano.....
i met harada in person hes really short.
"Fix Kazuya, n***a"
You are absolutely right. Strategic gameplay is being punished. Tekken is now a game about who can spam knowledge checks and +frames more aggressively. Combos go for half a minute and rounds have like two interactions. Everyone is overpowered.
Agreed. As a Bryan player, I play or try to play strategically. I try to bait moves from opponents, but most want to spam the cheapest moves over and over. And some of these characters are SUPER cheap.
As other established game delevopers said: When u make a game, u always make it for a target audience. If u make it for everyone, u essentially make it for no one.
Thanks this applies to comics too
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797 it should apply to any artistic endeavour, but it's getting rarer and rarer, yey capitalism
@RestFunction so if not capitalism, then what? socialism? communism? I bet you got an 8th place trophy as a kid huh?😮
@@nabismith8023 socailsm is the only way.
Making it for a minority (target audience) will yield less sales, As your fanbase is such a small part of the gaming community.
This notion that 'we're playing arcade release' needs to stop IMO. It is clear what the intentions are. They want the game to be simpler and want the characters to all be as obnoxious as possible. For the game to get better they'd basically have to rework heat in its entirety whilst also reworking nearly every character in the game, even removing moves. That isn't going to happen, and I believe whilst the game will _change_ it will always be *broken* .
I was struck by something Aris said when he was restreaming a Tekken 8 tournament after seeing a player defend something (don't recall specifics). He said something a long the lines of 'Remember when Tekken was full of intricate interactions like that?'.
It's not just Tekken, it's a lot of franchises.
To my understanding and logic, it's about abusing the newer generations. They don't know better. They simply don't understand and they're abusing that.
Just milk the newer generation dry while the old heads keep them engaged and motivated.
And if they speak out, they're called washed out goobers or whatever snd they don't care.
It's a rather perfect disaster.
right. i got burned going from sf4 to sf5. most fighting games are getting dumbed down to some extent.
@@koumorichinpo4326sf5 was just ass
@@hands-ongaming7180better than sf6 where they killed footsies and implemented dash in mechanic
@@101mrcrazyman hahahahahaha no
@@101mrcrazyman then again I’m a sf4 guy and lot of us HATE SF5 lol so could just be my bias
youre probably the only content creator for this game that just gets every problem i have with this game everything is rush down and kill you as fast as they can then its over you dont even get to learn a ton of the time i think people must agree with that because i find myself getting matched against people with 10% dc rate or higher this games gotten super frustrating cause its easy to just throw crazy frames or if youre just standing next to a character it feels like youre in a mix up already even though theyve done nothing
Won't forget how top players quickly changed their tune on this game to protect a one sided relationship with Bamco
No. Knee and Arslan were the 2 most high profile and vocal critics of T8's gameplay and they toned it down after they got a backlash from other fans not because of their relationship with Namco.
@@atuls55 lmao are you their best friend? youre just pulling that out of your behind because youre a fan of them. its completely possible that it was cuz of Namco - which is also the most obvious option considering Namco previously had the content creators who they got in their pocket damage control for them before like Spag and K-Wiss cuz theyre commentators so they Need Namco. just like how Arslan and Knee need Namco.
@@DaggerPrince Rubbish. I saw the Knee and Arslan's tweets and the respones they got and how they reacted. Knee was surprsed about the size of the reaction to his criticism and decided to step back from that. He was losing a lot too so it looked like sour grapes. Arslan saw that and followed suit and he too was not doing as well in T8 at the time. Look at Fighting GM getting it in the neck for criticizing the gameplay from irate twitter fans but at least with him his performance level hasn't dropped going from T7 to T8.
@@DaggerPrince You're making an unverified claim yourself, so you're pulling stuff from your behind too. Yes, either one is possible, but if you're gonna claim someone is bullshitting then show the evidence. Either take seems reasonable to me.
Or maybe the game is actually good
I love how you keepin it real since day one. You've got lot of integrity!
"I love how you've echod in my echo chamber"
@@Nube_Negrah cope
@@wc999 you can hear?
@Nube_Negrah maybe ur fellow tekken shop shills cant hear or read like urself but i can do both just fine
Frame speaking facts.
The worst thing is the casuals have mostly already left and if not they will leave fairly soon.
Tekkens stayed relevant cause of the 5% who arent casual about it, doesn't make sense that theyre aiming for the casual audience.
Well if you look at Mortal Kombat, competitively it’s not doing well. However, if you look at sales, it’s outselling Street Fighter and Tekken despite it’s problems. We want our Tekken to be popular and big, but at what cost? To be like Mortal Kombat?
@@chucklos391 well steam charts show nobody plays tekken anymore. while everybodys playing street fighter. i dont know about mortal kombat. doesnt matter anyway. Tekken is dead.
@@DaggerPrince wait so 8k players playing right now is considered "nobody is playing"?
It may be smaller but atleast it isnt in the 100s
@@DaggerPrince yeah Tekken is dead. I think Knee was the only entry at EVO this year and no one is watching the Tekken EVO stream. Dead game.
@@DaggerPrincemaybe, but all my steam contacts stopped playing. I used to see like 3-5 people playing t7 at all times for the past few years.
Idk. Game isnt fun to play at advanced level anymore. I doubt its sustainable but I just dont care about it anymore.
Quitting the game for the summer was the best decision I've made recently. The improvement in my mental health is really noticeable. Shit just got me frustrated every single time I played. This was a rare occurence in T7. T8 just wont let you breath and relax. Seriously, who the fck needs more stress in their life by playing a video game.
This game is intense. Haha. I actually love Tekken 8. I have decided to take 5-10 minute breaks from really intense matches by turning off the online search. Just need to breathe here and there. It’s one way to pace yourself and keep it enjoyable.
This is exactly how I feel. I took a 2 week break, and my stress level in general was so much better that I now take 2 days off at a time for my health. I had to change my entire philosophy around this game to start to enjoy it, including only playing 1 character at a time (I used to play 15 at a decent level), spending more time labbing in practice than in the game, and doing push-ups when I lose a match to get out some of the cortisol😂. This game is an addiction... and nit as fun as drugs.
@@chucklos391 how do you turn off online search i guess options but would be cool to try combos out and then continue the search
@@djw_tekken8490 While in lobby on your favorite stage as you wait for a match, you hit your button to see your settings and you'll see "Match Settings" and from there you can turn off match search under "Match Standby."
@djw_tekken8490 in the menu while waiting go to matchmaking, turn it from ranked to offline.
You're one of the few people I really respect. Not many people who are brutally honest and actually stand behind their words. I haven't actually bought the game because they had already lost my trust with Tekken 7 so I wanted to see first if things got better and I've just been observing the scene a bit and it just looks to me that I made the right decision.
Played tekken 7 regularly for 4 years. Played tekken 8 regularly for first few months. Haven't touched the game for 2 months now. I think I'm done with the series till the next installment. T8 is a mish mash of wild ideas and monetization. Don't miss playing it at all.
I hate that you're right. As much as I love Tekken, I can't deny it's becoming a cesspool in monetisation. The Tekken Talk isn't even really anything special, it's just a huge ad for products. It's sick. Not to mention how Bamco lifted the embargo a day early and a bunch of info about Lidia released before the talk making the investment to watch it unnecessary. Like what are they doing? The only thing I appreciate is the fact they added a cheaper option for Tekken Coins so you can now get the battle pass for cheaper, but then I question why it wasn't there before? Like hello Bamco? Wtf are you doing?
I learned how T7 frame data works from one of your videos. Thank you for that. I hope you get successful just like Aris when he stepped away from Tekken.
T7 made u pay for frame data lol
The sad part is even the passion we have for tekken isn't enough to keep us around, the game we love is going in a really bad direction and am super sad to see that
I would still rather play Tekken 8 then Tekken 7 for another 5 years... Tried SF6, KOF15 and I still preferred Tekken 8 over them.
@@Justlookingaround19 i bet u mash at every game
It's been a downward spiral since the start of Tekken 8. Namco has shown that they care more about monetization and busted DLC rather than making Tekken what it used to be: Difficult and exhilarating. I played Tekken 8 last night and I found that I could only do so for less time than I usually would when I grinded ranked. Elden Ring has had my attention for these past couple days and I am in love with the game all over again. In addition to other games that I look forward to in my Steam wishlist. It's a shame that Tekken has turned out like this, but we don't have to take it, we can just stop. Take care Frame.
The latest balance patch has improved this game, theoretically. But also like you, I can't play this game for extended periods of time. I can only play it on my "on" days. On my "off" days, there's no hope, it's just too frustrating even with the balance changes.
@@fatman9183 Yes, but even on the "on" days the game's aura drains your life essence. If Bamco didn't fumble so hard, people would love the game more, myself included. But nope, SALES SALES SALES and Chipotle burritos
Funny enough, Tekken 8 to you Tekken fans is what Elden is to us Souls fans. Sucks all around.
@@JimJackson-fy1yp Lol
Elden Ring’s publisher is bamco so you’re still in bamco’s hook lol
Tekken 8 slowly turning into NBA2K before our very eyes.
i think "tiktokification" is a great way to put it. The over-accessibility which ultimately just means mish-mash of inoffensive/non-challenging engagement, huge push for monetization and marketing, getting every e-celeb under the sun to play and talk about the game to get all the cool hip youngsters on board, it just sucks and feels really cynical. I love when I can at least FEEL a game was made to be sick first, profitable second, but things feel the opposite with this one.
*cough Elden Ring
@@DeadpoolX9 second this, legit one of the few examples of a game where the developers where like fuck everything else, lets just make all this cool shit
@@DeadpoolX9hencey why DarkSouls 1 and Bloodborne are 10 times better than Elden Ring
@@DeadpoolX9 *cough Elden Ring has a shit ton of copy pasted layouts and enemies on a supposed to be huge map with subpar enemy design and it's "open world" for the sake of open world. It's lazy and bloated just to make it look big. Try again.
I respect your honest opinion on the topic. My optimistic hope has always been that the push for monetization through cosmetics can help the issue of separating sales from game balance.
Aside from the actual practices and implementation quality, do you see this as a possibility?
Love you for this Phi. also how tf do you not have a checkmark yet??
I would say the optimism you express is far from warranted based on every choice we've seen them make with T8. Even if you somehow are right and having literal ads on characters is the price we have to pay for better balance, I'd rather choose neither.
Having said that, congratulations on your fantastic theoretical content. It really is next level. Best of luck with it all, genuinely.
You and Frame should do a collab stream together discussing the state of Tekken 8. That would get Harada and his team's ears to perk up.
harada should retire and phidx run the tekken dev team. fix this shit brother! LMAO
"we made the game from the ground up" - harada, meanwhile most shit is reused from eariler tekkens lmao
@@LXRDKVRAMA But then they atleast dont say we made the game froim the ground up stop defending every bad dev choice it really helps u in the long run dude but u do u
Kinda like how previous Tekkens looked.
From T6 to TTT2 and T7 characters looked bigger.
@@GORO911kazuya's face looked like shit compared to tekken 8 now he looks like joker to me now in tk7
@@lagmaster12 alot people cosplay joker as dragunov
@@lagmaster12 yee lmao ig they couldnt port the face normally lmao
Addiction is bad, dude. I didn't play Tekken 7 for a while, for two years. And now I'm really, really conscious about what I play. At all times. I don't do a day job thing, I have to stay sober and calm around the clock.
But, like, taking their "embarrassements" to heart and this close is something that we're different about. I'm, on the contrary, get upset over a lot of things. But a big company going for money is not a big thing. It's not news in any way.
So letting that into your heart... like, they are not at fault that you feel that bad: YOU'VE let them in. They don't have to be and they don't even ask you to. If they take up so much real estate -- then fuck them. There's too much shit in the world to let it into your heart.
Let's talk about good things instead.
You were my calm guide to Tekken 7 (to a person rediscovering the rules of the game after T3). A person with clean speech, great analysis skills, clear head. And you were my respectful opponent of the higher level, very friendly, very cool to play with.
Then the streams descended into rude jokes, calling people cocksuckers for a goof, constant outrage at yourself AND the game. For what?.. Tutorial content did not disappear, but became diluted in that to some extent.
I'm sure that attracted that type of crowd, too. Sad at heart, cynical. Which is not great. The one you refer to, "that type of streamer who rages for entertainment". No, that's not cool, cause these streamers pretend or enjoy it, but you do take it to heart while doing the whole "I'm a cynic till I die" thing. It never felt good to me. I just wished you a good stream, but tuned out once you got off the rails, playing for hours angry at night. I know it's normal -- doesn't mean it's good.
I was very happy to have you be that calm, interested guide. So it's 100% better to step away from something that hurts that guide.
But please just don't let your rage off the hook. Your daily life and years of it really doesn't deserve to be poisoned with that. Fuck both the scoundrels AND the little devil who nudges you to bite and be upset. Fuck them both. Question them both. You're good at that. You're very very good at that.
With love, your long time viewer.
Underrated comment
This guy spitting
The guy from the bus agrees with this one.
Yea I hopped off his streams when it felt like total doom posting.
Play something else or go outside and irl stream it can't be healthy being so genuinely upset over an electronic toy.
You are a sage, wise man.
It took them a long time to finally destroy this franchise, but Harada finally managed to do it. Great job. And, honestly, I'm actually happy to see this dumpster fire, because it's obvious that at his point Tekken can't be saved, so I don't have to choose what fighting game to focus on. Cause in February I was like "wow, this Tekken game is really good, but SF is also good, and it seems like they've fixed a lot of issues in GG, what game should I play". Now the answer is clear: I'm gonna play a game that has an active player base and doesn't agressively shit in my face. Thanks, Harada.
They're Tekken the piss mate
Good count binface reference.
I’m a street fighter too
Dumbed this game down so bad. So much in fact my 12 year old niece just got to orange ranks with king just by mashing. She never played tekken in her life. It's a dam shame.
I remember that Leroy prediction 😅
Um stop complaining just eat your chipotle and pick a top tier Frame
Good point
We would lose all Lee Chaolan mains with that mindset 😆
lol
He already does. Frame plays Alisa.
Evo was dominated by mid tiers. Even kazuya was viable
As a Tekken veteran (since Tekken 3) and a Gamer since the 3rd gen consoles. I noticed Tekken in even number intervals 2,4,6,TT2,8; usually attempt something very experimental, almost making the franchise unrecognizable to hardcore Tekken fans. Then with odd number installments including the original 1,3,TT1,5,7 Tekken goes back to its roots and fixes what didn’t work in its previous iteration. Thus, making Tekken feeling like TEKKEN again. So, this might be the case with Tekken 8. When Tekken 9 is released either, a decade from now or only a few years after T8’s debut. We will be treated to a refined, definitive and perfected version of T8. As was the case with T3, T5 and T7.
With that being said though, another factor that plagues gaming. And it’s the main reason why, I barely dabbled into the 8th gen era of video games (except for Tekken 7 and other obscure titles); and is the catalyst for NOT owning a current 9th gen console.
is…
Gaming as a whole, just isn’t FUN anymore. Major game releases are just copy & paste sequels, remasted IP’s, repetitive mindless soul sucking online multipplayer shooters or failed overhyped flops; all of which, demand micro transactions & day 1 DLC. It’s the reason why, simple games like Minecraft, Fortnite, Star Wars: Hunters and most recently released ‘Chained Together’ are undoubtedly way more fun than “Triple AAA game titles” meant to revolutionize gaming that are boastfully developed with a multimillion budget yet, lack overall quality.
Gaming has become franchised and too mainstream. As technology advanced for gaming the hobby regressed into a form of escape and loathing. Gaming no longer has soul, creativity and ingenuity that made this passive hobby so memorable, loved and entertaining.
THIS THIS THIS
One of the good things about Tekken 8 is that it opened the niche back up.
Sega has the opportunity to make a proper 3D fighting game again.
If fortune and ambition is on their side, they could rise and knock Tekken from its high horse.
All it takes is a visionary director and some well invested money. Many of us are hungry. Hungry for blood. not Chipotle.
Bro hit the nail on the head. Ive played tekken previously but never committed cause it seemed too hard.
Then bang tekken 8 releases and its easy to play mechanics sucked me in, i could pick a character, mash heat engage, heat smash, heat burst, heat dash, power crush, rage art, all these noob mechanics and get wins. It felt good when i was a noob.
Im now approaching 1000 hours and have reached tekken king rank which isnt the highest but for me was my goal and only now do i see how unfun, cheap and casino like these mechanics that initially sucked me in to the game really are. Im now at a point where its like do i really want to quit playing and waste all the time and effort spent to learning all of my character? This shit sucks for real.
I saw a video titled "Tekken 8 player tries Tekken 7 for the first time" where the guy says that T7 is more defensive and he prefers it that way. If Tekken 8 fails to satisfy the audience it wanted to satisfy the most, that means there must be some serious flaws in it's design.
Tekken 7 was more defensive but it was boring defense, it's more interactive in Tekken 8 where you have to make more active decisions compared to T7 where you do nothing and just try to backdash all day
"I saw video that confirmed by bias" but you'll ignore how popular the game actually is lmao
If you understand what is going on, it is not boring at all
@@X_The_Ynot sure i agree, if someone is backdashing means someone is chasing making it interactive.
Just watch knee dash block while chasing and you realize the freedom in the movement (since it's cancelable on every frame)
Is infinitely deeper than being frame locked by a heatdash, or getting stance mixed on block.
Its becoming tekken 4 2.0
We love you man because of your integrity, conviction and expertise, none of us want to see you miserable. Would be incredible to watch you play other games and do what's most fun for you.
1:07 imo it started with Tekken Revolution. That was Namco’s testing ground for monetizing Tekken and implementing easier mechanics.
The only thing I liked about Tekken Revolution was they toned down the juggling mechanic to that of Tekken 5
I quit Tekken years ago, but I've kept watching your channel all this time. Keep it up with whatever you choose to do.
eat chipotle, that´s what gamers do
To add insult to injury, you have to pay extra for Heihachi and Eddy Gordo
Characters that were in the base game for the last 25 years
The problem with Tekken 8 doesn't just end with the balancing and catering to Casuals more, but it is even more worse in my opinion as the base game itself is a whole mess. A game of that price with no good netcode (The server is there just to record matches and it is joke, because it still feels like a Peer to Peer based) and full of bugs even after delayed further due to SF6 release then all the reason dev give is "it is hard to have a good rollback based netcode for 3D game" (like no other game actually made a 3D game with decent Rollback based netcode). The standard Fighting Game community give to their game is so low it will only enable the devs to do whatever they want with anything because they know if they can get away with 1 then they can get away with anything at this point.
As for balance, aggressive play just does not have a single risk in this game compared to how Drive system is in Street Fighter 6 does (You spend too much you are screwed up). It is funny how I love to watch both Tekken 7 and Street Fighter 5 (SF5 after capcom fix their whole mess) tournament but now it is Tekken 8 and all I can remember is "Oh SF6 tourney, hell yeah" meanwhile Tekken 8 tourney just does not feel as entertaining as Tekken 7 at all. It is just sad to see the game in this state and all the company care is how to monetize the game even more instead of just fixing all the problem first or at least the half of it
I absolutely agree on everything here. Tekken 8 is a game where it's all about "how many buttons can I press to win" because of flash and substance. It's a truely frustrating experience when mashing becomes a staple thing that gets you a win over technique and finesse.
Watching Tekken 7 was always a blast with what top level play was. Watching Tekken 8 matches is "oh that's super plus on block gotta guess this 50/50".
To give insight on this to people who read this comment. I grinded to GoD rank online. Was the most miserable experience imaginable. I'm also a Shaheen main. When half the matches are aginest characters that have far superior advantages over what yours can do (Jin, king, Feng to name a few). You have to question why the developers made them like that. I know I sound like I'm complaining but I totally do t get why "making it flashy" was the direction of T8.
Fans of the series including myself would have been hyped as hell if Tekken went back to its roots without any gimmicks and solely relied on old school neutral like in Tekken 5.
My wife can't tell you how many times I would play and she would hear "why tf is that guaranteed?!" Or "this character is nonsense".
I really hope the game gets better overall in terms of substance. I can't play in major tournies like I would like to due to being a dad of 2 kids and having other priorities in life. However online is the closest thing I can experience. I'll try to be optimistic going forward, but man T8 is just a weird mess of a game and truely a slap in the face to longtime fans of the series.
Also adding on this comment, like frame said when this game is catered to people who don't even play tekken it's rather frustrating. Prime example
Of this is a lot of Rage Quits, and a ton of people criticizing you that your a "sweaty no life loser". I can barely get any matches after becoming GoD. However if I do I get rage quit on, or just criticized for playing well against casual players. So this games community can be pretty stupid to be honest. I'm not saying everyone is like this...but like a strong majority of the online players have this mentality.
Wtf, are you a different version of me? Because I swear to god I would write those exact words.
I have 2 kids, and my wife would hear me say exactly those words.
Except I play Hwoarang, hehe 😂 But damn, you wrote what exactly what I would have written.
Best of luck! 🙏
Bamco makes the game playable for babies, cats and dogs x D
just say that you got your a$$ handed by them babies that's why you want the game to be harder.
@@philgamer9499that's... the point?
and broccoli
I felt like this watching evo. It just felt like I watched someone just out aggressing the other. It didn't feel like I was watching the strategic tekken of old.
Recognizing that something you used to love became shit and quitting it is BASED.
Facts. Not much beat being real with yourself.
"Based" is pathetic.
@@Inaluogh Can you elaborate?
I predicted this 2 weeks after release. No skill when approaching, no thought when attacking, endless pressure and forced block strings and endless 50/50s. The truth is this game was fated to die
Good for you on stepping back from it dude! Your videos played a big part in getting me back into the series when 8 first released. Compared to most of what you see out there it's been so refreshing to see someone regularly calling this kind of horseshit out, rather than just playing along with a fake smile because there's views/money/free guac at stake.
Namco is arguably one of the worst entertainment companies in the world, look at their history of how they treat their other IPs and franchises and you'll see that what they're doing with Tekken is not even the worst out there (there are youtube videos on this). Now that they're not doing so well financially, they're trying to milk the cow dry as much as possible.
That's an utterly idiotic argument. Much like "Michael Jackson made Thriller." Namco made Pac-Man. Maybe you're too young for it or don't like arcade games (in which case the fuck are you playing fighting games, all fighting games are arcade games), but to just say Namco is so bad and have ALWAYS been that way is just dismissing all the years of greatness that came before a shitty Tekken game. Get a fucking grip.
Matchmaking is another huge problem in Tekken 8 that shows Bamco's incompetence. It really shouldn't be that hard to make a ELO/Glicko based system, but instead of doing that, they made matchmaking so much worse by forcing prowess (a gimmick stat that was never made for matchmaking) into it. They also stealth patched it into the game and refuse to talk about the litany of issues with prowess.
It's unfortunate that the great potential of T8 has been sidelined to line Namco's pockets. What is even more concerning however is how certain FGC communities seem to be completely ignorant of the same things happening to their games. We can see that SF6 has much more positive reviews and reception overall, yet they have had multiple sponsorships and partnerships such as with Chipoltle of a similar nature to Tekken, they have had overpriced DLC characters, they have had content cut from the game so it can be sold later (ie. a small roster at launch to sell characters later) they have had a shop introduced post-launch with prices even worse than Tekken, and they have had a lack lustre battle pass introduced post-launch, yet no one seems to care??? It is concerning what the FGC and the gaming community in general is coming to these days.
they do care i have seen compains even on tekken forum. the diffrence is, SF put out a completly new game, new animations, models and everything else. meanwhile, tekken hast the same 20 year old animations, copy paste character models, dollfaces with no animations when the same company had a game where facial animatioan and faces in general, where far superior, costumization downgraded, stages are boring AF, graphics not even THAT good (cmonme guys, we have 1 stage with 2 characters), ghost are useless and... yeah, that was what comes to mind right now. honestly too much to remember lol + the online is good, tekken online, can be good! i only played SF6 for ~20hours, but the game felt like quality everytime i played it. T8 does not at all.
Very ignorant comment. Following the common internet trend of “just because I don’t see it, it can’t exist or have been occurring”.
To use your example SF6 has had many of issues, particularly with its monetisation model and has faced a TON of scrutiny on the online forums but as the comment above reads most of the negativity is not to do with the actual gameplay element which has been most received well - contrary to tekken 8 that legitimately has inherent gameplay system flaws.
Do your research before denouncing some warped FGC lack of awareness
@@endlesscrusadeid say that the newer dystem tekken 8 has def does need improvement
Remember that they always added something new inevery installment and apparenty ppl will vomplain abt the new thing everytime because "it is not like tekken"
And tbh while this channel does point out many flaws the game has...id advise ppl to not dwell in it too much because of the negativity. Not that criticism is bad ofc but yknow whay i mean.
Imo tekken 8 is doing okay, as long as they keep the momentum and they continue to communicate with the fommunity then i think we should give em credit when its due
>buy fighting game
>don't care about DLC because the base roster has a lot of different playstyles
>don't care about the shop because cosmetics
>have fun with the fighting game
>this is somehow confusing
sajam, one of the largest voices in the youtube fgc community, released a video criticizing fgc monetization 3 months ago. the culture does notice, and there is discourse, it's just probably not as large as it needs to be
I definitely agree. This game is unforgiving and not complete. Everyone has payed $70+ but the experience of each individual player is different based off of their main they want to play. If you aren't playing one of the "chosen" characters that are insanely OP, you will tend to have more of a miserable time playing. I am playing a less popular character and am having a tough time dealing with the S tiers. Either they have projectiles, guard break on heat, have some sort of stun ability on heat, insane tracking, broken power crushes or all of the above. While quite literally my character has none of those abilities (and others on the roster). It does not make for a good time. And Let's not talk about the broken hit/hurt boxes.
finally a prominent tekken youtuber says the game is bad! haven't heard a single pro come out and say anything negative about this game. it seems everyone is paid off by bamco to keep quiet. Thank you framewhisperer. we missed you man and thank you for bringing this to light. The game is garbage and is riddled with issues
The game is basically in a vanilla state tho, tekken 7 came out riddled with problems too but everyone seems to forget it
@@Invader.Xim. I do agree with you, but Tekken 7 in my opinion wasn't as hyper casualized as this game. the tekken identity has been completely thrown out the window in favor of making the game appeal to the masses - gauge bar, shop, arcade lounge, battlepass, dumb casino style gameplay that was made to "look good on stream" rather than make the game actually fun. All these decisions make the game diluted down to just a 3d anime fighter and not a good Tekken experience. Even bringing heihachi back is just a cash grab. Absolutely disgusting decision on their creative part. Keep that dude dead for God's sake, that was the whole point of T7.
@@mugen016 🤔 have you never played Tekken revolution or the 3d characters in 7? Geese basically had a heat bar. I think if the think people complain about most is a shop then your game is fine (considering Tekken 7 Made you pay for frame data) and so what if heihachi is back? I agree to keep him dead but he can’t be a playable character? Look at bison and noob saibot, they are dead but always playable
@@Invader.Xim. Yeah and no one liked those gauge characters like geese or that game. Guage is not a Tekken thing, and in my opinion shouldn't belong in a Tekken game. The game was gritty and intense without it, and now they want to try and appeal to everyone by adding a Gauge meter as opposed to doubling down on the formula that made them so unique and great. As for the shop, yeah not a good look. Especially with Chipotle deals and what not. Disgusting.
Heihachi? Playable could be ok. But they literally brought him back into the story. The fact that he is alive and well, even when hirada said he is dead for real this time, is absolute trash. Its an obvious cash grab, and they're too lazy to make new characters. Keep him dead. It was great for the story.
@@mugen016 😭 wdym no one? Akuma and geese were super strong characters and popular especially in tournaments. The chipotle deals that give u a free outfit is bothering you? 🤔 also kazuya died and also came back but no one complained until now. It was great for the story but let’s be fr who cares about the tekken story. Fighting game stories are all dog shit and tekken hasn’t had a good story since Tekken 4.
I'm in blue ranks and I find myself not even having the heart to give it my all in matches anymore. Maybe 5% of the time, you'll have a great set where you're both putting up a fight with defense, respect and pokes, and the matches are close and feel satisfying. The other 95% of the time, you're either steamrolling someone or getting steamrolled, and the FT2/match is over before it even has a chance to breathe (as you put it). Matches that are like this make you feel like crap after they're done, whether you win or lose. And when there's no infinite rematch feature that would give players the chance to adapt to the opponent's playstyle, what's the point in even rematching? Playing a bunch of random online bums in Tekken 8, with no ability to infinite rematch, is simply soul-sucking.
Between this and the messed up matchmaking (prowess) which is forcing me to not play Ranked, my motivation to play this game is dying out. There are too many problems that, when added together, make it not worth my time in its current state.
I can really see how jaded you have gotten and it saddens me to no end. I've been out of the Tekken scene since the first month/weeks of T8 release - since my computer can't get stable FPS - and I only see snapshots of what's going on in the community here and there; it's really sad to see what's going on. In any case, massive respect for voicing your opinion honestly and being straightforward. I know where your heart lies in terms of the franchise from all the content I've seen of you over the years and knowing that, this is very hard to watch. My heart goes out to you and the Tekken community. Lots of love from Finland. You don't know me and I don't really know you, but I just wanna tell you that I love you man. I might be several beers in at this point, but don't hold that against me. Anyways, much love ❤
@@Dextrous90 Appreciate it man, it's all been worth it for the ride with you guys! We will find other things to enjoy.
I remember playing tekken for my first time and learning from your t7 leo's video.
Haven't touched t8 in a month, it's frustrating beyond belief and you've done a good job at describing why. How fitting that my teacher feels the same. Hopefully it's just a pause in a journey and not the end, we'll see :)
17:03 This is exactly it. This game brings out the worst in me-every fucking session. I end up saying "fuck this game" whenever I'm done. I guess I just wasn't made to play and fully enjoy this game, sadly. And that makes me really sad, because it's my favorite franchise.
Tekken 8 is similar to an abusive relationship.
“I quit this game” -Harada
The "casualisation" of online ranking play is what made quit after the first month.
That includes easy and faster ranking system as well as removing infinite rematches.
I reached Fujin in a couple of weeks then lost interest quickly.
Took me 2 years to reach Fujin in T7 tho.
As for the casualisation of Gameplay it was very bad in the beginning but it is getting better with patches.
Still can't get over how long the combos are niw.
You can reach fujins in a week in Tekken 7 too when you play like a fujin 😅
@LuckyRaphi
To "play like a Fujin" you had to go through a long daunting learning journey full of demotions and long sets of death matches which the ranking system provided in T7.
In T8 i hardly learned the new mechanics or match ups yet reached Fujin quickly, i just rely on a certain flow chart that worked well and that's it.
Whereas in T7 that would have never worked because infinite rematching made sure your opponents adjust to your flow chart forcing you to innovate and modify your playstyle.
Which resulted in you becoming a real offense expert versed in how to open up your opponent's defense.
As well as accumulating a huge knowledge of the game's character match ups and expertise on how to deal with each character.
Same can't be said in T8.
In T8's bo3 all you are doing is either overwhelming your opponent with flow charts and couple of set ups or getting overwhelmed by his.
That's not fun for me.
I won against alot of people while i know they would smoke me if infinite rematches still existed.
@@GORO911 he still got all these skills from Tekken 7 so fujins in Tekken 8 will be naturally easy. And I was fujin in Tekken 7 I never did death matches, or training mode. So I steamrolled Tekken 8 until blue ranks but then it got harder
@LuckyRaphi
Well.
If infinite rematching is brought back and implemented in T8 i guarantee you you won't be steam rolling any ranks.
You will be demoted and it will take time to regain your blue rank again. 🙂
@@GORO911 you should be able to counter cheesy moves when you saw them a few times. No need for infinite rematches. There's no excuse if you lose a bo3 because of knowledge checks. Tekken 8 is more difficult and if you need an hour to adapt to your opponent you didn't deserve the win in the first place.
Frame: "Sorry guys, not gonna do much Tekken anymore if at all"
Me and everyone here: HELL YEAH FRAMEDADDY!
The crazy thing is; tekken 7 got popular over time BECAUSE it was hard. BECAUSE it was complex. Gamers are tired of everything getting casualized. A lot of people moved to tekken for this, including me. All they had to do was make the same game look nicer and add stages and characters, customization, some new modes. That’s it…
That being said, i still enjoy t8, just not as much as I did 7. I think it’ll move into the right direction over time, gameplay-wise. Or the gameplay philosophy in general.
I have stepped away. Been a fan from the first time I saw Tekken 3.
1. The opening of online store was the main reason. I just felt betrayed. If I knew there was to be a store inside the game, I would have NOT bought the game.
2. Dont like the heat
3. No Lei Wulong
Damn, i thought im the only one feel that way. Im a noob and im a defensive player. Make sense that im stepping away from T8. Not that i'll go back to T7 mind you, with all its tracking bullshit. But im genuinely feel bit sad that now that i have time to properly play tekken, this happened.
Well, hope to see you soon man! Whatever video you make or game you play👍🏽
Yeah I’m right there with you man. I stopped playing 8 as well. Tekken 7 was my life for 10 years and I was so excited for 8. But right from the get go it felt…wrong. If you can mash one button and succeed something is very wrong with your game. To me Tekken isn’t supposed to be a mash fest. Hopefully they learn from this and one day 8 will just be that dark period in tekken history that we don’t talk about.
Had a similar experience. In the beginning i was like „that shit is mega fun, its just fun.“ and i put like 700h in like a mad man. And now i haven’t touched the game in over 2 months. Too often rounds are decided by a guessing game, they are always decided by guessing games in fighting games, but the heat stuff is so forced, so little counter play, so one dimensional. Its for sure preference, i bet there are also a lot of people which appreciate the simplicity of a heat smash on block into mid/low , but if you have seen it 1000 times , it becomes annoying. Obviously not EVERY single game is decided by these situations, but the match flow gets interrupted by heat stuff in a not enjoyable way , for me personally. Its mega powerful AND cheap AND so simple, that even a monkey understands heatsmash into mid/low AND every character has it.
The commercialisation of Tekken in general seems forced like crazy. No natural development towards a healthy e-sports community but just loads of money to lure people into events and buying products.
Also, I don't know what it is but Tekken 8 makes me rage way more than Tekken 7 has ever been able to. There are very few matches were I actually understood everything that happened on the screen. All the other matches have random crushing, clipping, side switches, unforeseeable character turnarounds, tracking, hitbox issues and so on. And I've been playing since Tekken Tag Tournament 2, so it's probably not a skill issue.
Bro u think u r the only one feeling that way? Me and my friend have been playing tekken since T3, tekken is literally our game we grew up with it and mastering its most difficult techniques and combos was our passion and we played at such high level that ppl in the community loves watching us but when this dumb fk tekken 8 came out it took my friend only 3 weeks to leave the game for good and me left it after only a month.
Dumbing down the game has been the stupidest decision ive seen just to make the noobs happy, we spent so much time to master movement, just frames and perfect electric, JFSR, the taunt jet upper and now all that gone coz anyone can do much much more by just pushing one button “heat” its ridiculous.
Nothing will ever make me forget about how Aris said it was better for him to get away from only playing Tekken. And everyone loves him for it.
The normiefication of this game should have been a tell tale of this game being dead a long time ago
Tbh, the first 46 seconds of this vid put a huge smile on my face. Tekken is 3.
I feel like tekken in general is one of those games that is really fun to play offline with someone but playing by yourself online can easily become miserable
I liked your video a lot, my dude. I just quit Tekken 8 -- legitimately considering revoking the license off my Steam, as I put so much time into Kazuya and his execution that it is hard to step away from. But I'm now going to give SF6 a go. The only critique I have of your video is about the Kazuya and Paul buffs -- while Kazuya is a very played character, his win rate is pretty bad due to his execution requirement. As the poster boy, he's going to be played a lot. He was stupid strong in Alpha, but they then over nerfed him to the point he was legitimately unstable. They then buffed him (I assume with the intention of fixing his instability), but that didn't really fix his stability in my opinion at all besides homogenizing his combo routes. All I really wanted instead of the damage increase is for him to not have T-rex arms and not one of the most godawful jabs in the games on a character that is typically defensive. They did not do that, however, and just amped up his 50/50 to a point in which it's pretty crazy. I really miss T7 Kazuya, because after nerfing many of his properties from 7 and not fixing those but just buffing other moves instead, he feels very different but in a bad way. He's definitely stronger, but Tekken 7 characters and Tekken 8 characters are kind of hard to compare because of how fundamentally different they are, For Paul, even with his buffs, he is still not a super high tournament pick because many of his heat engagers have abysmal tracking. Mwkan7 released a video on this a bit ago and it is an interesting watch. This isn't me saying though the underplayed characters shouldn't receive love. I just wish they would rise the skill ceiling on many of the new characters they introduce and make their moves more dynamic (dynamic instead of over tuned being the keyword here) because while you can get good by learning their move set, there will be a handful of moves so overturned that you don't have to use those whatsoever. The balance in T8 is really fucking bad, and it's why I don't pay attention much to tier lists. Everybody just makes tier lists for the clicks immediately after a patch, but it's really hard when the game is this mangled to try and give a coherent evaluation of it besides the ones that are glaring, with things that are still being discovered broken about the game. People complained about Akuma with seven, but Akuma has a significantly higher execution requirement than pretty much any of the T8 characters which are presently broken. But this isn't to say the T7 DLC characters had high execution, cause many of them did not, and many of them were indeed broken. I still think, though, in T8 the power gap between top tier characters and low tier characters is bigger collectively.
Something about T8 though feels like really depressing and seeing it this way makes something inside of me feel like it is both withering and dying. The way players play the game is just fucking miserable, albeit incredibly effective in the T8 enviroment. The game caters to people playing in incredibly reckless and capricious ways that really punishes those that took the time to get accustomed to the typically patience required in Tekken.
Tekken 8 is the Soulcalibur 6 of the Tekken series. Bloated with braindead mechanics and gimmicks. Hyper focused on style over substance aka just explosions of hit sparks. And it seems like it just doesn't have a clear identity of who it really wants to appeal to. All these colors are equating to brown like you said.
Heat system is basically soul charge lol.
Activate soul charge gives you new mooves like heat does.
And it activates the same way
@@Kaka-np8qssoul calibre 6 is still a better game!
"I'm sad because my fighting game of choice lives under capitalism and is forced to be sponsored like other sports and artistic endeavors." should really lead to "We need to pay workers more and tax the rich so that the profit motive can be curb stomped into the ground and we can have art/games/sports without capitalistic advertisement."
Thank you for not being a sell out like TMM.
Not to sound like a dick, but I always considered you to be one of the most perceptive Tekken content creators, and honestly I'm a bit disappointed it took you this long to see this game for what it is 😅. Personally, being a long time fan of the franchise, I saw the writing on wall few years back, and realized Tekken is never going to be the game again that I fell in love with. From casual perspective, its story was ruined. From game play perspective, it was obvious to me by the T7, that Harada and the team were creatively bankrupt. No future vision of the franchise. T7 to me was like a well executed horror monster cross over movie. Like Alien vs Predator or something lol, but instead of horror monsters it was T5 gameplay + 2D mechanics sprinkled on top. Yeah, it's fun the first time around, but the fact they were doing it, means the creative energy is gone and franchise has come to its end. So, I've stopped playing the game and turned it into spectator sport (and T7 was good spectator sport). But then as soon as they revealed the heat mechanics and went all aggressive with "aggression", I knew T8 is going to be a shit show. The game is atrocious to watch, can't even imagine what is it like to play. I've tried watching EVO on Aris' YT, and ended up watching the 3rd strike, at least that is fun 2D game, unlike this identity crisis mess we have in T8. You are right, the game is fundamentally broken on design level, and no amount of patching is going to fix it. I'm just sorry for you, other members of community and competitors for having to through rude awakening...
@@jedananagram6272 Appreciate the comment mate, I guess I was clinging to hope
WHY SO MUCH ADS ON MY $70 GAME, BRAAAAAAAHHHH???????
I dont even notice them
Wait there's adds?. 😂
*"Because gamers are entitled."*
Says the corporate CEO and his 5th yacht.... disgusting.
"You can get excited about it, or you can get stress-related eczema"
OMG i love you, Frame ! 😂😂😂😂😂
Edit : Your unwavering integrity is your trademark. Never forget it.
Edit 2 : Obviously, you're not the only one here. I also stepped away from the game a little after Eddy came out. Same reasons as you.
As heartbroken as I am as I’ve adored this franchise since I was a child, I’m also so glad I stopped playing tekken.
Daddy Whisper is as real as it can get and I really appreciate that! A proud subscriber since 4 years! Keep the real good content up!
Thank you Frame for always keeping it real. I dropped T8 in March and my friends were clowning me for it. Now there feeling the fatigue.
Was so excited for this game, a lot of SF players like me love the defensive , methodical playstyles, i loved tekken 7 and was going to main Tekken 8. The first time they showed heat on stream i knew it was screwed.
For some reason, people refuse to believe that the top players and influencers were secretly approached in an effort to do damage control. Pay people off to get them to speak positively, or at least get them to stop saying negative things. Its business and trust me........this happened.
More obvious one when Knee and Arlsan had the change of heart at the same time.
@@Tnargav Their backpedal tweets were undeniably made at gunpoint. 😂
@@PhokingiLL-m7y "Our Glorious Leader Harada has hereby declared this game excellent. We must thank him for giving us the excellence that is Tekken 8. Please ignore all tweets from us previously that may have stated otherwise."
Proof?
Thats 100% true
I just started to learn Shaheen, so I'll be entertained for a while. Once I get him more around my main, I will have to step away too. Shit is frustrating and the monetization just makes me sick and sucks my enjoyment. I'm glad your mental is doing good, and I'm excited to keep watching your stuff whatever it ends up being
How tf did they go from tekken 7, amazing roster, vibes & decisions & marketing to… 7 months in we still have a buggy laggy boring 1 & doneing ahh mess in tekken 8? God tekken 8 sucks
ya nostalgic, go back to t7 and you realise t8 way better
My belly full of chipotle and my pockets full of tekken coins. Never been happier. HEAT SMASH RAGE ART
Imagine payinging 70 bucks and still cant get rid of chipotle and nike ads😂
@@crimealleysoutlaw1103 ☝🏻truth
Too far gone to get milk and ciggies. Never returned home.
I was playing Tekkens since 3 and more committed since T6. This January I was playing and noticed every match was very similar in style as in it's mostly exchange of aggression. I got bored and stopped playing immediately... This video just popped up and at least I see I'm not alone. Might revisit it in few months. I recommend GT7 in VR on PS5. It's a lot of fun :D
At the risk of nobody reading this essay:
1. Thank you for all the content released, it takes a lot of effort to put out 2 hour, detailed videos and it can be a very ungrateful job.
2. Hope you have a good time with whatever you decide to do next and hope it's not the end for the channel.
3. I completely understand what you're saying. I have 13k hours on DotA 2, have been playing since invite only beta, have organized community wide events, official leagues, been a coach and participated in both ranked and league play. I stopped playing altogether a year ago due to changes I really disliked and I thought were mostly put in the game to appeal to new/lower skill players. It's been years of these changes and at some point I think they just reached critical mass and game became so bland and unfun that I thought quitting was the best idea. My life's been much better since.
4. I like to play Tekken on occasion, but it isn't my main game. I have struggled with getting consitent fun out of the game since T7 and while I still occasionally open T8 and play a couple of matches it is as you said: very difficult to enjoy the game at times. I have never had these feelings about any other fighting game: they're always straight up bad (in my opinion) or great and fun (at least most of the time). Hope they do realize they will not live off casual players for long as you can't really shove a fighting game down their throats and make them play it. Eventually they too will consider this boring and unsatisfying.
STAY STRONG
That’s what happens when you design a game for people that don’t play it. Hopefully they slowly tone things down now that it’s mainly just tekken fans left playing
All of this was planned. Once the casuals left he game, they released v1.05
@@MegaKhalid121 1.05 is a good step but I think all the characters are too strong. If every character is broken individual skill matters less
@@baconbitz7804 I agree. The game is still far from what it should be but I'm just glad we're heading in the right direction balance wise
This is the exact reason why I have to drop this franchise. It bears heavy on the heart that my once all time favorite fighting game has become reduced to this anime-ish , Western-audience pandering, 3D fighting excuse of what once made it great.
Your video actually opened my eyes as to why things are in this current status. Over-commercializaton, and mainstreaming it by making it more flashy and stylish than it was necessary.
Tekken for me always stood out cuz instead of seeing it like just a fighting game, me being a hand-to-hand, close quarters combat, martial arts weeb, it was more like the closest possible fighting game simulator.
And that spirit has been thrown out of the window. Truly a tragedy
There was a sense of grittiness and realism
Tekken lost me from 7 and on, some kind of copium got me trying to be interested in 7 but when 8 came out I knew it's basically over. Too bad
The Tik Tok comparison is a VERY interesting perspective
Wherever we go, your videos made me fall in love with Tekken and have made my years. Your humour, level headedness, recognition that this is a video game, and honestly more importantly your integrity is ever-refreshing. Even if I’ve disagreed on occasion, wherever you go with your channel I’m eagerly waiting and happy for ya. My goat, the RLM of Tekken.
P.S. TRY INSCRYPTION GODDAMIT, love you.
Don’t blame you. Tekken 8 is shit.
They definitely need to do somthing about Jin man
The irony is I'm grateful to Tekken, Bandai Namco and Harada and Murray that I found you and your channel.
Wish you best of luck, Frame.
I’ve been saying for years…NERFING FIGHTING GAMES WON’T MAKE CASUALS WANT TO PLAY! They’re too intimidating and most people are scary! My niece n nephews are fortniters,2k’ers,gta’ers and when I talk fighting games,their whole attitude changes. I can see them getting nervous,tekken 8 and sf6,I put on easy controls and they STILL sucked!
“Still sucked” in a game type they’re new to?
Sounds like the fighting game barrier wasn’t the problem, your horrendous attitude is
@TeryonTheHuman it's honest,nerfing fighting games hasn't made casuals want to play them more. It doesn't work that way. It's not like fighting games don't sell well,they do. The top gaming streamers play everything else but fighters. Fighting games intimidate people too much and require you to actually know what you're doing. You can't micro transaction your way to being good or depend on a team. People have to want to learn fighting games all on their own. Reducing the skill gap doesn't work. If it did,Dive Kick and Fantasy Strike would be popular games. Especially fantasy strike since it's free lol
@@sadetwizelve i’m so glad this genre is growing, selling well and making people like you want to leave by being easier because you sound a little ridiculous lmao.
Street Fighter and Tekken have sold and retained more players than ever before by streamlining the games. Thats indisputable factual information and simple math. FG’s are bigger than they’ve ever been, even guilty gear saw a quadrupling of its playerbase by “dumbing down” the game with strive.
For every one of you they lose, 10 more replace you
@@TeryonTheHumanPost hoc ergo propter hoc.
I feel you, I mostly agree with you, I used to play 1/2hours a day Tekken 7 and now I barely play the same in a week in Tekken 8, another problem is that Bandai Namco has the monopoly of 3d fighting game, so we don't have any substitute of Tekken 8 to play instead and they know that.
I still play t7. I requested a refund for t8 but it was rejected as I was over the 2 hour limit. I hope they use my money to develop t9. Cos t8 seems to be stubbornly determined to cater noobs
This casualization has been happening to pretty much every fg franchise. I would know, unfortunately.
Yup it really hurts to see hyped frame at the start and frame now. I was as hyped as you but now i dont have fun anymore. I dont know if i can continue like this.
Fear not frame! Theres now advertisements baked into the game, for only 250€ you can also buy the maybe ugliest shoes in the world!!!
Tbh this is how I felt with all modern fighting games
But money has gotta money
This video is exactly why you're my fav tekken content creator
stopped playing a couple months ago. the upcoming dlc is extremely disappointing, the community in general is fucking annoying, gameplay is dumb