Gorr is such an absolute showcase of missed potential. Like how do you have a man called the God Butcher only kill one god on screen. And who decided that this character would be the best for a ROM COM? like tf
Christian stole the scenes he was in, I loved how intimidating Gorr was and how well acted the character was. I just wish he was given more to do and more gods to kill to really show how dangerous he is.
Could’ve done a lot of cool things with Gorr but no. The only thing that could tension into this movie had to Gorr and death of 1 God we don’t know isn’t really that threatening.
Gorr it's the most dark and evil villain in all mcu. Such a shame that marvel chose this silly movie to introduce him, completely ruined the atmosfere around the character
The fact that the main cast treat the kidnapped children as almost an afterthought and an opportunity to suit up and kick ass could have been an interesting plot point, Gor pointing out that even though Thor came, it wasn't because he cared about the children but because it gave him something to fight, pointing out that even the most virtuous gods are completely hypocritical and selfish, unworthy. Instead funny goat scream ecks dee.
The kids are the driving force of the movie, thor literally goes out of his way to communicate with more than once and shows clear concern for them. What your proposing is just ignoring what happened on the movie, just say you don't like the goat joke and don't make up bs to justify it.
Am I the only one that feels that it'll be great characterization if Gor was actually kind of nice towards the kidnapped children Instead of being creepy and one dimensionally villainous. Especially when he was recently a devout loving father who started his entire quest of killing all the gods because of the death of his child, and his Eternity wish on bringing her back. Like seriously, Instead of conjuring and decapitating a snake to traumatize the children, Gor would summon cute shadow animals, put on a shadow theatre show, anything fun an experienced dad would do for kids . The dual personality of hatred towards gods but good nature towards children greatly empathizes Gor similarly how GOW humanizes Kratos with his interactions with Calliope, Pandora, and Atreus despite his bloodlust against the Greek and Norse gods. To a further point, It'll been great if Axel (Heimdall's son and the Asgardian children are severely underdeveloped in the film) isn't persuaded by Gor belief that all gods should die, and claims that Thor is a hero who'll come rescue them. To this point, Gor argues that gods cannot love unless its love only to themselves. Gor goes into a tangent, that Odin built Asgard and its richness through warmongering and conquering the nine realms. Odin fails as a loving father, as his parenting methods led his son Loki (another god) into a dark path of murder and deceit. Loki disguised as Odin then let the nine realms fall into chaos, Hela (a goddess) subsequently breaks free and kills asgardian forces and the destruction of Asgard itself soon follows. All of these contributing factors allows Thanos to further genocide the Asgardian population including Axel's father, Heimdall, and erase half the universe. But did the gods come to help the grief-stricken populations due to the snap? No, they don't even help the Avengers or rebuild societies. They only party at Omnipotence City instead because according to Gor, Gods are incapable of love. Even Thor himself became a shut-in recluse before Endgame, getting fat from beer instead of leading his people in New Asgard. But Gods are capable of Love, since Thor loves Jane Foster as a romantic companion despite being a human, and Frigga and Odin loved Loki as a son despite being a frost giant. Thor joins the Avengers to help people, and TVA Loki is going through an arc of becoming good. Its because of love that Thor and Loki despite their tumultuous past in the end are capable of recognizing each other as brothers. It becomes so potent that by the ending of Love and Thunder, that when Thor tells Gor to do what he wants with the eternity wish, Thor is comforting his dying ex-girlfriend clearly disproves Gor's philosophy that Gods cannot love. TLDR: Gor should be like Kratos including being nice to Children; Love and thunder should've emphasized the "Love" aspect by exanimating if Gods are capable of loving others, and if all gods should be killed since they create a lot of the universe problems and refuse or ignore helping their people.
Yeah, I especially agree with your points about Gorr. I'd have loved it if he was kinder to them from the get-go, but I especially figured that he would be after noticing the girl with the stuffed rabbit. If I recall, the camerawork even emphasized her when all the children were locked up so there was potential for Gorr to at least show a different side of himself beyond being the God Butcher. But alas, I was disappointed at the wasted opportunity.
@@WingsOfDespair he was trying to be nice, the reason he brought out that creature and ripped the head off is because the kids were just talking about how cool it was when Thor did something similar. But they definitely should have shown more of that side of him.
It's extra depressing seeing TH-cam comments coming up with better ideas for the script but I was hoping to see Gor more like Kratos than whatever it is we ended up getting.
This movie proves to me that Taika and Disney didn’t understand what made Ragnorak so beloved. Ragnorak was balanced and flowed almost perfectly imo. It was still goofy in places but it was spread out more than Love and Thunder which tried to throw jokes every 3 minutes
And to think that Taika Waipeepee was the same guy that gave us Thor: Ragnarok and back in the 2010s (2008 - 2019) before Phase 4, the MCU really was a series of badass, well-animated, empowering, inspirational, story-driven, relatable, gender-neutral cinema (unfortunately, though, Martin Scorsese was right… about 2020s MCU so far.) experiences.
@@kieranstark7213 Well Thor Ragnarok was trash. Great action so i can understand why Thor fanboys love it but the movie spits in the face of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and fans of the Hulk.Martin Scorsese will never be right because nobody decides what is and isn't art, especially the film makers themselves.
I'm gonna be honest, maybe I'm just a toxic Taika fan or whatever, but I refuse to put the blame on Taika Waititi himself. The guy can absolutely NAIL balancing humor and tragedy, like with Jojo Rabbit, and this doesn't feel like that at all, even though it really could've been. I feel like there's a good chance he was rushed by higher-ups trying to get as much frequent Marvel content out as possible
The weird thing about this movie is just how small it all feels. A story about a dude going around and straight up MURDERING all the gods should feel like a big deal, but it never did for me. Thor: Ragnorok had lots of jokes too, but it still managed to make the plot feel epic. This movie fails to make me give a shit about anything serious.
The humor feels more like a parody of Taika Waititi's then something actually done by Taika Waititi. His use of comedy is to convey various emotions through laughter. We see that in 'Ragnarok', where he adopted humor as means to cope. In 'Infinity War', this facade has cracked. In 'Endgame', it has consumed him. In 'Love and Thunder', he's the comic relief of his own story.
Feelings i got from this were similar to jojo. fine enough movie. looks like Ragnarok wasn't a trailer of greatness to come but more of his best work which he won't be topping any time soon.
because he was still using humor as a shield to protect himself from the pain but... yea people want to complain XD In Endgame he was depressed and started to trying feel good and happy by being more lazy and goofy. In Thor 4 he went for another epic adventure to have fun and ignore the pain. However, he got his moment with Star Lord and when the story goes deeper, he is more serious. I like the movie, I know it has cons but humors isn't a negative side of it.
6:14 The subplot w/ Stormbreaker getting jealous was mildly amusing, but it was completely undermined at the end when Thor immediately gave Stormbreaker to Love as soon as Mjolnir was available for him to use.
One scene that got under my skin, was the scene where Thor is talking to the Kidnapped Children and Valkerie decides to play with Thor's nose. That just points out how they can't let something serious simmer for any amount of time and how bad of a character she is for me
Thor Love and Thunder legit felt like an Adult Disney Sitcom with a Budget and elements of action, and it’s such a shame that Gorr wasn’t featured that much considering Christian Bale does an absolutely fantastic performance for a character that barely has screen time
I very much summarize this movie as Disney seeing the great success of Thor: Ragnarok and then told Taika “You can do whatever the hell you want with this one.” And he took that to heart.
Cept he decided to find out what people disliked about ragnorok, and didn't want in love and thunder.. and make his movie based on that. and he's calling everyone else 'immature'. What a guy!
Exactly. That formula was successful in Ragnarok, they let him do that again. As simple as that. Some like it, some don't. This movie has some weaknesses? Of course! Does Disney care about plot, characters or reviews? I don't think so. As long as the movie sells tickets they will repeat the formula.
Good analysis. I noticed that in "Thor: Love and Thunder", Thor acts absurdly at times, even stupidly in some occasions. But characters around him act like normal people and, at the same time, don't see anything strange in Thor's behaviour, except maybe thinking he is somewhat eccentric. In "Thor: Ragnarok" there already was a comedic tone, but Thor in that film was not as much of a clown and also the whole context was overall comical. Grandmaster was a funny villain. Loki, Hulk, Korg and the other gladiators, and even Valkyrie had their funny moments. In "Thor: Love and Thunder" we have a Thor that is a bufoon (even more so than in his previous movie) starring in a serious plot that includes a nightmarish villain, the death of a child, terminal cancer, child kidnapping, and questioning the very concept of religion. Independently of whether the joke works or not, I think that by making the main character a bufoon and making pretty much everybody around him act as if his behaviour is normal, the Thor movies are becoming more like Will Ferrell movies with each new instalment.
Really? Less goofy in Ragnarok? The guy who throws an object at a window which bounces and beams him in the head? I thought Ragnarok was a travesty that turned Thor into a moron
YES TO ALL OF THIS! The VERY beginning of the movie watching Gorr's daughter slowly die left such a strong impact for a darker and more reflective tone: commentary on the entitled hubris of gods, the faults of stubborn dogmatism from humans, and a reevaluation on how to find meaning in life and death. All the seeds were there. Thor being a terrible god/king in the past despite his best efforts. Jane literally DYING and finding purpose in the item that's killing her. Valkyrie losing her faith after senseless bloodshed. And they did absolutely nothing with it! We went from that heavy scene to a horribly done montage with the Guardians acting out of character with zero stakes and Peter basically talking straight to the audience about what the movie's overdone theme was "supposed" to be. I'm still not over that whiplash. The script needed at least two other drafts to be worthwhile. Instead we got what felt like a first draft. But having seen Taika's other works I suspect this was more on Disney than him.
Marvel is suffering from MAJOR quantity over quality problems right now. And if they don't get their SHT together, they're gonna fly right into the sun. Marvel Studios isn't invincible. With plenty of other entertainment out there, both on social media, and in the film industry, it's only a matter of time before publics interest fades. I remember seeing a video of "Action Films of the Decade || BATTLE ROYALE." and while a mashup, it reminded me how much more STYLE some of those movies have compared to half of the MCU. Mad Max, Baby Driver, Mission Impossible: Fallout, John Wick, Kingsman: The Secret Service, they have SOMETHING in them that Marvel now just doesn't have...hell even movies IN the MCU back in the day you look at those and go "there was SOMETHING there." and that thing is just gone now. And it's WHY Disney CANNOT have a monopoly on film. Because then that thing...whatever it is that makes OTHER films unique and stylistic will just be gone.
I hated a lot of phase 1&2 films. This just feels like a repeat of that. Hot takes incoming. Marvel never was great. Trash films like Iorn man 2&3, all thor films minus 3, both ant man films, captain marvel just an't it.
@@bryanmartinez4932 MCU had issues, but at least each film FELT different. Iron Man was NOT Captain America, Thor was NOT Doctor Strange. The cinematography, the editing, the CGI was all pretty top notch. Especially in movies like Doctor Strange and Iron Man 2008. That along with Transformers 2007, and Dark Knight really helped REVITALIZE the action genre. But now it's like Marvel's collapsed in on itself.
There never was a spark for me, all these films have always been fun and that's it. If I wanna watch a masterpiece I'll watch everything everywhere all at once, if I just wanna have fun with the kids marvel works just fine for me. That's always been my approach.
@@steveschenker1380 The only decent Marvel show was Hawkeye IMO, as it actually had a decent finale worthy of the rest of the series & didnt rush things or outstay its welcome
Remember in God of War 3 where killing a god had massive consequences to the point of destroying the planet. I wish we actually got that in Thor: Love and Thunder. Where everything that the god is about, ends up dying with them. Like in that opening scene, have the Oasis wither and die after Gorr killed the god there.
As someone who’s read Percy Jackson and the antagonist from the original series has a very similar perspective about the gods, it’s extremely depressing to see how absolutely uninterested Taika seems in, quite honestly, the most compelling aspect of this movie. Even Percy Jackson actually interrogated the legitimacy of the antagonists’ disdain for the gods….
Great point! I think PJO handles this issue very well. The antagonist also changes the protagonist’s minds and results in them enacting meaningful change 😮
What I love about PJO is as you go along with the books and spin offs you can see the protagonists slowly adopting/understanding the god hating antagonist's mindset
I wish that Sif was an actual character. She had feelings for Thor but the MCU never did anything with it. In this, Sif could have grown contempt towards Thor and how dumb he has become and how New Asgard is nothing but a joke and tourist trap. But nope, no Sif
That requires intelligence and intelligence is not something Waititi has any idea how to write. Notice that every single movie he makes, there are no intelligent characters, everyone is always a cartoon of some kind, with the only variation being just how dumb they are.
@@alexman378 Taika should not be given writing duties on any of his marvel films in the future. He wasn’t a writer on Ragnarok and that was infinitely better
SPOT ON! It also really bugged me when he says they need an army, but instead of reaching out to any of his Avenger friends, he goes to Zeus who he doesn't really know
@@mementomori4591 You could say that, but I'm gonna take a wild guess that if Doctor Strange just dumped Gorr in the mirror dimension, this film would've been over pretty quick. Marvel have actually been pretty good at writing their stories in such a way that the Avengers wouldn't intervene in P4: BW: The Red Room etc obviously isn't an Avengers level threat Shang-Chi: The Avengers don't know who Wenwu is or about the existence of Ta Lo, and Shang doesn't have the connections to contact then. Eternals: Similar situation, the Avengers don't know about the Deviants or Tiamut, only the Eternals. No Way Home: The Avengers (or at least, an Avenger) was involved - and he had to be somewhat conveniently written out. Peter obviously doesn't have the connections to get the others involved now that Tony is dead. MoM: Simply put, nobody left in the Avengers is competent to deal with Wanda. LaT though? No explanation, Thor just doesn't ask. I'm sure if he rocked up to the Sanctum and said "hey, this guy is trying to kill every god in the universe and kidnapped a bunch of kids, can you help me", Strange would've been more than happy to.
@@Convergant As an add-on to MoM, considering her reality-warping abilities, Wanda is way too powerful for anybody else to face; she'd do to them what she did to the Illuminati. Also, I don't think "competent" is the right word; they're competent, but she's so out of their league that all they'd do is buy America time.
Zeus's line in the mid-credits scene got me thinking about how the film could've shown both sides of the story when it comes to the relationship between Gods and Mortals. I mean, how often does Humanity treat it's Deities as wish-granting Genies, then rarely thank them while slandering them and playing up their flaws You see this in both Fiction, Religion and Mythology: - For fiction, take Disney's Moana, where even though Maui devoted his life to making life easier for Humanity and giving them blessings, he get's villainized by them for one (admittedly big) mistake that he was powerless to fix while they forget everything he did for them - In Religion, a good example would be Jehovah God, he frees the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, then a short time later they start committing Blasphemy, or when he makes it rain Manna so they don't starve in the wilderness, but then they start demanding Meat and Bread, or how he saves Israel from it's enemies time and time again, but the Israelites keep taking up false worship, and nowadays God gets portrayed as a distant, cruel and apathetic guy who just "doesn't get it" - And with Mythology, alot of the worst traits about the Greek/Roman Gods were made up by a Roman Poet named Ovid during the late BC/early AD era due to been bitter about been banished Now imagine having to put up with all that by the very people who go around making demands of you, at what point would enough be enough?
Another interesting story about the relationship between gods and mortals is Tolkiens Numenor in the Simarillion. (Spoiler!!) Its about a powerful group of humans being gifted by the gods with a beautiful island and long lifes, but then turning on them because they wanted more, in the end being nearly completely destroyed by the gods.
This too. It seems wierd that nowadays in fiction it seem Gods have some sort of obligation or divine duty to take care of humanity which...isn't really present in most religion or myths.
I thought the part where Thor destroys the alien temple in the beginning of the movie was going to come back somehow to prove that Gorr was right and that Thor needed to change his behavior as a god. But no, it was just a joke about Thor being dumb and careless.
@@bibi-bi9qu I simply can’t fathom how someone so talentless not only fooled audiences into thinking he’s good, but also fooled an entire studio to give him a massive budget so he could completely destroy a character with so much potential. The only good thing about this movie is that it finally woke people up.
@@alexman378 he’s got some stuff to his track record. what we do in the shadows is some of my favorite vampire material, and hunt for the wilder people was properly funny. But his reigns on the mcu have been an assortment of chaos and BS i’ll tolerate no longer. Interviews make him sound like an insufferable goon too, so screw em
This movie felt like 3 different genres just kinda thrown together. It tried to be a comedy like Ragnarok, but it also tried to be an action movie and also serious and dramatic. The villian was pretty cool, but he didn't really make a lot of sense in the movie
There’s a small detail I only picked up on the second time around that Gorr actually cuts his hand on the sword when he’s crawling into the oasis, effectively cursing himself and why the sword “chooses” him. Again, it could’ve been clearer but there is reason it floats to him at that moment
My biggest take away plot wise was that everyone wanted to fight. Saving the kids and the gods was an after thought. Valkyrie got bored sitting behind a desk, Thor on his quest to find love found a villain, Jane having cancer and knowing that Mjolnir was killing faster than her disease wanted to live her life like a hero and make her death meaningful. Sif didn’t want action she was protecting one of the most generous and peaceful gods. However doing so and going to Valhalla would have been a win win. It wasn’t a bad movie, but it wasn’t at all the movie I thought I was walking into. I was hoping for Jane and Thor to make peace with each other, being together or broken up. Valkyrie would defend New Asgard as a hero and not a tired administrator wanting some action. At least let us watch Jane and Valkyrie bond as warriors together as a sisterhood something Valkyrie openly talked about.
This film hates Valkyrie lol 😆. She has virtually no character development whatsoever. She starts the movie disgruntled and jaded about the beuracroacy of leadership and by the end...she kinda likes it more now, I think? She ends the film literally in the exact same way she started it. The film also felt like it had no stakes. If the protagonists and characters aren't invested or don't care about the conflict driving the film, then why should I?
@@ryanhalawani2637 I honestly thought Valkyrie was trying to resurrect her warrior sisterhood at the end. There was boys in there, which like yeah okay. Umm…. So she knows what she likes fighting alongside warrior woman. She knows what she does not like, the paperwork of being a monarch. Yet here we are she does what she hates and dreams about what she loves.
@@juliettek.9440 Yeah but nothing really changed for her character. Her character since Ragnarok to Endgame and now Love and Thunder is exactly the same. I just feel her and her story and trauma get overlooked consistently and worst of all, in this film it's overlooked just to tell more unfunny jokes.
Can I also add that I wish they kept Thor the way he was at the end of endgame. I feel like they could have built off that greatly, imagine Gorr the god butcher is on his way to kill all the gods, Thor meanwhile is training to get back in shape and boost his confidence back up. It would make the payoff with him fighting Gorr feel much more earned and epic. We saw the broken Thor finally returned to his old self.(basically like no way home but with a different approach) Instead they gloss over it like none of it mattered. I genuinely thought maybe the first act was going to have him training and getting back in shape. At least a solid 20-30 minutes maybe.
That would have been great. Also having the guardians have a more prominent role in the movie instead of just one scene and being kicked out. Like what was the point of that setup at the end of Endgame of Thor finding a new family with the guardians if they’re just gonna throw it out?
He was the same as he was in endgame though, he just lost weight which was a superficial thing and has very little to do with his character. Actually think about how absurd Thor training for 30 mins is please.
@@johnman8398 I mean have his weight loss be a part of the journey. Okay maybe not 20 to 30 minutes I take that back, but honestly I think it would have been much cooler if they implemented that into the story. And by the time he fights Gorr he's Infinity war Thor. Lastly I think a longer runtime would have helped, you can tell certain things were cut and left on The cutting room floor.
@@nickasaro8789 No the guardians did not need a more prominent role, it was clear they just travelled together for a little while and that's it. They were never set up as new family, that's just an assumption you made.
People always joked about the dark world being bad. I always really liked that movie. The mysterious asgard viking world felt so magical and thor was more serious. I watched it after love and thunder and I even appriciate the hollow dark elves that thor in that movie takes very seriously.
Honestly, I think the former dislikers of the 2010s Thor movies (for either purely subjective or inexistent reasons) would definitely have new appreciation for these movies after having to suffer from the biggest joke of an MCU movie that is Love & Thunder.
If you read the comics you'll understand why people despise Thor the Dark World. It destroys Maleketh as a character and Kurse too. That character has so little in common with the actual Maleketh, even the cartoon got the character right.
The Gorr storyline is legitimately something along the lines of The Dark Knight trilogy. On top of that they actually managed to get an actor that could have done justice to a dark philosophical movie regarding the gods, wether they deserve to exist and their responsibilities and wether they live up to them. Then you also add in the Mighty Thor storyline with her dying of cancer. Instead they took those storylines and made it Adam West Batman rather than The Dark Knight. However after ruining any possibility for World War Hulk/Planet Hulk with Ragnarok he now ruined any chances for a good version of Gorr's storyline in Love and Thunder so just Taika being Taika and not giving 2 shits about the stuff he is creating if it isn't his original idea/character/universe.
Exactly, if Marvel had any balls whatsoever then they would've used this phase as the chance to say hey, we're finally making dark shit and getting deeper. If they did that with MoM and Love and Thunder, it could've catapulted the MCU to even greater heights. But instead, we get the fucking same washed out eyesore colors and shitty tone consistency that's been a problem for the post-Thanos MCU.
Honestly having Thor’s powers and abilities in Marvel being passed on as an mantle doesn’t really fit well with his character.His name is Thor and his title is the god of Thunder.What happens when other characters could just control that power now? He’s just Odin’s son but with the title and power.It’s like he’s an empty shell of a character strip of his godhood. It also doesn’t help that they had to adapt the shitty Jason Aaron Thor run where he completely ruins everything cool and special about Thor by have Jane acquire his title and powers/abilities.She drags down his character with her constant one up’ing him and showing off how capable she is as “Thor” than he is yet JA still try’s to give her an emotional send off like we care Thor should have been with Lady Sif(Marvel’s underrated WW) rather than Jane (Marvel carbon copy of Lois Lane) I was glad that she died in before the comic and super glad that she died in the movie
Did you hear Taika in an interview for Love & Thunder where he said he liked to go on Reddit and read what fans DON'T want, and purposely put that into the movie? I understand he wants to challenge himself creatively, but that doesn't seem like a good approach to me. Marvel has done a good job at deviating from the source material but still gives nods or pays homage to key moments in the comics. Also, Taika was supposedly mandated to keep the movie to under 2 hrs, which I think hurt the film.
I don't know why this movie and Multiverse of Madness were around two hours when the previous ones of this phase have been around two and a half hours, these too needed those extra minutes. Strange.
the worst aspect of this movie for me was the end card saying that "thor will return." to do what? as far as i'm concerned, his arc and most important character growth already happened in ragnarok, infinity war, and endgame, and now all i expect out of him narratively is to just raise his adopted daughter (incredible bit of nepotism on the casting front btw). if anything, i would've been fine with thor dying and jane taking over like everyone expected. it would've been interesting to see someone so powerful yet inexperienced leading the series.
Right? So sick of them keeping Thor imprisoned in a character limbo where they refuse to allow him to be King in favour of 'King' Valkryie the enslaver who twice refused him helping their people in favour of keeping him a prisoner for the Grandmaster. And now he's regressed into the God of Hammers again with Mjolnir despite, in the context of the MCU, having upgraded to what Eitri called 'The King's Weapon' and for a 2nd movie ends just fucking around, first with the Guardians and now with...Gorr's daughter of all random people? What the hell are they doing to Thor instead of giving him a respectful arc ending like Cap and Tony?
Honestly, the best version of Thor in the MCU was in Infinity War. It really balanced the serious Shakespearean dramatic version of Thor from the early Thor movies and the goofy comedic Thor from Ragnarok. Besides Thanos, Thor was the only character who had an arc in the movie. The movie treated him like an actual superhero-god(his entry in Wakanda 🔥). In that regard, Endgame was a hard left turn for the character. While I agree that Thor would turn into a depressed alcoholic after his loss in Infinity War, but the way the other characters react to his pain and struggles, barring in the some moments, is baffling. How they have no empathy for him(especially Rhodey, and he was being a total dick to him) is ridiculous. And finally, Love and Thunder completes that arc and turns him into an absolute clown. At this point, I feel like the MCU has no respect for Thor. Hulk became an absolute joke since Ragnarok, and Thor is also going the same way. The same goes for some of the other legacy characters. They butchered Black Widow with that pointless prequel, and although for the most part I liked the Loki TV series, Loki himself felt like a side character in his own show. Sylvie was instead the main character of the show, as she had a more visible character arc than Loki did. Overall, this indicates the kind of approach that the MCU has, and it kind of sickens me. The lack of respect that they have for their older characters ultimately will become detrimental for the franchise, which apart from the bad storytelling, has made so many people lose interest in the MCU.
Since you mentioned Loki ... they also butchered his character. While I enjoyed the TV series, those therapy sessions and how they tried to make him the good guy was strange. He is the God of Mischief after all. They made him too soft, weak and vulnerable. It was very cheesy. The character didn't feel like the Loki we know.
@@pincopallino8176 yes. Loki works best as an antihero, although I think his redemption arc was well done in the MCU. It was kind of surprising how Loki reacted to his actual journey and getting killed by Thanos. He kind of believed it, which is not how The Avengers era Loki would do. I also think that they should have kept his mischievous antihero side right up till the end when he meets He Who Remains. Loki should have gone along with Sylvie, with the plan to take down HWR, and it should have been then that his actual fate gets revealed to him, which for him would have been shocking and changing his whole character. I think that would have worked nicely and would have been consistent with his character.
Totally agree, and I am one of those that almost have lost all interest. Thor, in Endgame, I struggled with to, but I could take; but it was still Thor as I got to know him in MCU. That Thor is now completely dead. This Thor-movie I could not even finish.I did not like all 3 hero-characters. Villain was good but therefore did not matter. I dont watch the disney+ series, and in my opinion those series shouldnt excist at all. To create a cinematic universe is ambitious enough. And for so long MCU did a very good job if you consider how ambitious that is. The MCU all the way to Endgame had a few movies I was disapointed with, but for a large part it was surprisingly strong for essentially popcorn- entertainment. Captain Marvel I did not like and Antman2 I thought was very poor compared to Antman. But everthing else I rated 6-9 out of 10. After the Avengers-saga they totally did not manage to get me interested in Eternals. Spiderman I ll give another change, although for me the last one has much issues. Dr Strange surprised me in a positive way but only cause I expected worse. Black Widow was very poor. Black Panther derailed but I can see why. Now I want to wash out memories of Guardians in this Thor-movie and I hope that somehow GotG3 can deliver. The first 2 belong within the top of the MCU imo. But I am barely hanging in there.
I agree through and through. This movie could've been an absolute Top 5 MCU movie, with the cast they had and the story they were adapting but nope. We got something mediore at best and rushed.
Before watching this, I feel this is about Gorr. I saw so much potential with his character but he was just a creepy villain, that’s all. I thought I would see a somewhat a good side in him like he wants all the gods dead but when he captures that kids, I was expecting him to try to relate and be nice to them, slowing convincing them to stop relying on gods for them not to fall in disappointment and despair like he did. Spoilers: when the rock from the columns was about to fall on the kids, I was expecting to see Gorr use his shadow powers to teleport them away and save them, showing that he has fatherly qualities left in him. This would have felt satisfying in the end where Gorr is going to make the wish. What does anyone think about this?
Yes! I thought exactly the same! I was surprised actually when I saw Thor was holding up the column. The scene where Gorr is talking to the children and trying to show them things in a twisted sense of trying to cheer a child up, was them setting up that despite his new bloodthirst for the end of all gods, that his fatherly side remained intact. I thought it was meant to show that he still had that side of him and was setting up him being more of a grey villain. I think they could have really made Gorr so much more effective by showing the damage that the gods cause to people, to justify his actions. Gorr is literally an underdeveloped Kratos. Also, am I the only one who thought that as soon as they said that Gorr wants to wish for all the gods to die, that his real wish was actually just to bring Love back. But then they get to eternity and thors like you can wish her back and I was so confused cause I thought that’s what he was gonna do anyway lol
@@lotty-rose2393 he even says what kind of father would i be if i didnt, but i think thats when he snapped back, remember, in a way the necrosword controlled him and it was destroyed seconds before, so maybe he realized he was being controlled
@@lotty-rose2393 my question is, why couldnt gorr wish to cure himself, jane, and everyone he hurt, so everyone could live happy, even if jane lost the powers, idk yeah thor having a daughter like in that movie with ultron is cool, thorun, yeah thats her name, and jane in valhalla works for me too, but yeah i get natalie may not wanna return, and if someday hemsworth leaves too they have the daughter as new thor
Sorry to be that guy but apparently in the comics, Gorr is known to have a soft spot for mortals. There is a panel where followers of Thor attack him but he refuses to fight them because he believes them ignorant and blind. This surely would have helped with his characterization in the movies.
@@JarvisPen really? wow. They had the ingredients right there to make him an amazing character, and they literally ignore what I expected him to act, Kind to mortals, hateful towards gods
5:51 "in ragarok, he helped lead a slave uprising" no, he talked about a revolt and we got like a scene of chaos but we never saw him do any actual convincing (handing out pamphlets is a joke) nor do any actual leadership in the revolt. The chaos of the revolt is shown briefly as a joke. People look at Ragnarok with rose-tinted glasses because it was the first experience with this director for many people. But it had the same issues. Waitaki has NEVER been able to do actual serious work without undercutting it with a joke.
That "scene of chaos" is the uprising in question. It happens quickly because Thor's group escapes quickly, but most of the scene focuses on Thor's side of the uprising and leaves Korg's group behind to finish the mission while Thor's group tries to get to Asgard ASAP.
Two huge issues I want to point out: How did Jane get to Eternity so quickly to help Thor with no Bifrost etc., and the fact that it was obvious that the whole point of kidnapping the children was to draw Thor out and get Stormbreaker, and once he had that there was no reason for him to still keep the children, which just seemed like a liability for him at that point
Because they’ve pretty much turned Jane Foster into a Mary-Sue when she used to at least feel like a genuine human being like everyone else in Thor 1 & 2.
I feel like we could’ve had both the Christian Bale Gorr and the comic book version of Gorr. It would be kind of interesting to see the sword progressively corrupt Gorr and his appearance. Plus Thor was only with the Guardians for like 5 minutes and then left.
I liked this movie for what it was, but I really wish there was a plot where the Asgardians/Valkyrie didn’t want Thors help, because they feel like he abandons them whenever he wants. It could have seen Valkyrie/Foster leading a small group of Asgardians to fight Gorr and losing, making Valkyrie struggle with her role as a leader, idk there’s just more that could’ve been done there
Yeah I can understand that There's some unresolved conflict between the asgardians and Thor But remember Thor is their God and he helped them during ragnarok so..
That would have been interesting, for Gorr to lecture the Asgardians and almost try and make them turn against Thor! And Thor would have to prove himself that he is there for them and the children. Instead of galabanting off into space with Guardians.
Something that I think should be talked about is the strange sort of switcheroo it does with it's message. The overall theme is that you need love in your life, and it does this by showcasing Thor and Jane. But at the end when Jane dies, Thor replaces her love with the love of... The little girl. One who he really has no relationship with, and who had nothing to do with Jane. It's seemingly implying that you can just fix yourself after losing a romantic relationship by swapping it out for a parental one, like putting in a new graphics card or something. And that's just not how human emotions work. I feel like it's inadvertently giving terrible advice on how to manage loss.
Thor Love and Thunder's problem is that Ragnarok was so well received. I profoundly disliked Ragnarok because its tragic story was almost systematically undercut by humor to the point where the story took a back seat... but many moviegoers loved it precisely because of all the humor it had. So it's only natural for Marvel to want to double down on the humor everybody liked last time around and create a big farce in which absolutely nothing's taken seriously.
I still haven't gotten over how Asgard's destruction was turned into a joke. Like, the Asgardians were seeing the only home they'd ever known being blown to pieces, becoming a nation of refugees who at that time had nowhere to go, and Waititi makes a fucking joke out of it. Imagine something like that happening in Infinity War: *Thanos snaps his fingers* Korg: Well, he managed to wipe out half of all life, but as long as we have each other we have a solid foundation to rebuild our world- *half the Avengers turn to dust* Korg: Oh, there goes everyone.
@@RevanSurik i have to disagree because while they do make a quick joke out of it, the whole situation is still very somber. The explosion having a funny timing doesn't mean it isn't of consequence to the characters. Most of Ragnarok has drama under its comedy, most of its jokes highlight the various characters' insecurities which is what the movie is about. Love and thunder on the other hand has no dramatic gravitas underneath its humor
@@scramblingtheegggs3603 Well, I guess we should agree to disagree :P I doubt even Waititi would've put a joke in a scene where, say, Peter Parker was watching Queens being destroyed, or T'Challa was watching Wakanda being destroyed. Even Sokovia's destruction was played more seriously; there were quippy moments there too, I could feel the danger and the disaster. Asgard's Ragnarök, by comparison, hit me a lot less hard (and as a Thor fan I actually cared about Asgard).
@@RevanSurik Yep, Asgard’s destruction scene really was the icing on the “let’s make fun of everything” cake. It really pissed me off because if there was one scene which should have been joke free it was that one (and Odin’s death, although I don’t remember how that scene was treated, saw Ragnarok only once… never could get myself to watch a second time). All the complaints many people have about Love and Thunder I had after Ragnarok.
The serious aspects of Love and Thunder's stories and the source material they had from the comics were more than enough to fill a masterpiece of a Thor trilogy around Jane Thor and Gorr, instead, they decided to not only try to fit it all in one of the shortest MCU movies to date, they tried to fit it all in a comedy that was too focused on bad jokes to actually develop anything meaningful. Especially having known the brilliant story Gorr had in the comics, how well-developed Jane Thor was when combined with Unworthy Thor, and how amazing of a character Thor is in Donny Cates's Thor comics with a tone similar to Infinity War Thor which they should have kept, I would have walked out of the theater had I not been with a group, the movie was extremely disappointing.
They had so many opportunites to address interesting themes and topics (If the gods are good, why is there so much suffering? If the gods are indifferent to human suffering, do we even need them anymore? Why do hope and love still matter in the face of death and destruction?) And they did exactly nothing with it and just gave us Thor: SNL Style instead. The whole thing felt like a parody of a Marvel movie, and not in a good way.
The whole time I was watching this, I noticed it felt like a parody of a Thor movie. The tools and concepts of a good story are there, but as you said, are turned into jokes. That's why it felt like a parody. That's how parodies work, and that's what this movie is.
I’m so glad you made this video. Everyone I’ve talked to has loved this movie and I felt like I was missing something, because I was super disappointed walking out of the theatre.
I am glad that a lot of the Hardcore MCU fans are finally starting to notice the implementations of SO many jokes being in the MCU with the lack of some serious moments sometimes at least but it’s more of like everybody is just a master of Quips rather than it just being Spider-Man really
They dont incorporate jokes all the time just for certain characters, Iron Man and Spiderman is at least where it works, Thor Ragnarok too. Doctor Strange is the only character I feel who shouldn't be as quippy as he is
This comment really annoys me, because you don't get *why* the jokes in this movie don't work. They don't work because the movie's plot is so serious. It's about Jane having cancer, children being kidnapped, a man losing faith in the gods. And yet, all we get is screaming goat jokes. The jokes worked significantly better in Thor Ragnarok because the movie was so silly. That movie was a jolly space adventure set on a planet run by Jeff Goldbloom. Of course the humor in that movie works better. So please, before just saying "jokes bad", think about why they work in some movies and don't in others.
SPOILERS; I'm kind of confused about what was so bad about the post credit scene. To me it seemed super important to the story. Gorr's god tells him that there is no afterlife for mortals, no eternal reward, all the devotion and suffering was wasted and Gorr was just a pawn. Then Gorr goes on this rampage and the story happens. At the end we see that Jane who is a mortal has reached Valhalla. The eternal reward in this case is real and the gods aren't all entirely evil and just tricking mortals, showing how Gorr actually was at least partially in the wrong in the end and there was a point to the hero's whole journey. If that hadn't happened it seems to me like essentially a story about the 1% of power keeping all those below them in line for no reason but their personal gain.
What so bad about it is that, people can’t just die in the mcu. They always have to be brought back in some way. Showing Jane in Valhalla leaves the door slightly open for a comeback. It also makes her death scene lose some weight.
@@MrReset94 Regardless of it setting up future stuff, which I wasn't my initial takeaway but makes sense, I still feel like what I said stands true. But I could see how somebody could see that and groan about the impermanence of any story decisions in a franchise like this.
I think the best way to describe this movie is that the entire script just feels like a “studio note”, y’know? That infinity cones thing especially felt like something someone pressed Taika to put in the movie so they can have a reason to make it a real ice cream shop for the Avengers campus or whatever.
Even more so potential wasted- the MCU is still fresh out the Snappening. So Gorr would have been a FANTASTIC opportunity to expand on how the gods hubris was so high-not a single one were concerned with half of life being annihilated.
Yeah it was completely out of character for him to casually admit he's a child eating cannibal. There's nothing heroic about that, even most super villains don't cross that line.
Even though I ultimately enjoyed the film and did feel that the emotional moments that this film was interested in exploring were done well (and I'll admit that the goats joke got a laugh out of me the 5th time), I do agree that a lot more could have been done to flesh out Gorr and the theme of selfish gods. I wouldn't have minded an extra 30 minutes of Gorr butchering gods and Thor questioning how he as a god has affected the lives of those that worship him. Hell, Zeus' speech in the post-credits introduced an interesting theme of the gods of old being replaced by superheroes and the side of his character shown there could have been more prominent throughout his scenes.
Jane's death kind of reminds me to Padme's death, both characters died for love of their "superhuman" boyfriend/husband, one is failure another is triumph, when that scene reminds me of ROTS it made me emotional 😂.
Completely agree. I enjoyed the comedy in "Ragnarok", but this time around it seemed so forced. The jokes were mostly not funny, and they took too much away from the tone of the more dramatic villain and cancer plots. Gorr could have been a truly terrifying villain, but most of his god-butchery took place off-screen, and the gods were all depicted as such useless, selfish idiots that I found myself on his side more than theirs. I wouldn't call the movie terrible, but there was so much tonal whiplash and so many eye-rollingly bad jokes that it's definitely one of the weakest MCU movies.
This movie for me is like Gotg Vol 2 all over again but like 10x worse. Everyone remembers the previous movie being funny so they double or even triple down on the comedy forgetting to put an interesting plot and at the expense of turning characters into fladerized versions of themselves
@@grandmastercadillac9052 Gotg vol 2 was atleast decent though, it still got serious and emotional when it needed it to be. And vol 3 will probably be more heavier and grounded since Gunn learned to make film better with Suicide Squad and Peacemaker.
Thor could have been given a revelation. Although his father, Odin, loved him and Asguardians, he did really messed up things before Thor's birth. It could have been given the opportunity to sympathize with someone as heinous as Gorr because Thor loved his father even after knowing the truth of his past. He loved the God, the king, who was warlord over the nine realms, at some point in the past. Thor could have stated that what Gorr was doing was absolutely horrific, but he understands Gorr's feeling of betrayal.
You absolutely nailed it. There were so many problems with tone from the offset. It was also very forced, as if I could see the cogs of the machine this time. That shot of Thor doing his scooby doo “Jane????” And the long pause, it was like I was watching bad theatre.
The sword teleported to his hand because when he was eating the fruit, he cut his hand on it, thus infecting him and having entered his body, he was chosen as the next host of the parasite that was the necrosword
Eh they could’ve had Gorr as an endgame level villain judging by how badass he is in the comics. Also they apparently cut sooo many of Gorrs scenes out from the film.
He really would have been perfect as an Endgame level villain. Imagine each new Marvel movie has an end credit scene of Gorr butchering some god and him finally coming across Asgardian deities and they reveal there are more on Earth and now he is coming for Thor himself. Best, imagine he does come down to Earth only to find Thor is out gallivanting across the Universe with the Guardians, so he is now actively hunting Thor through the Universe without Thor even aware. Honestly there is so much you could do with this character but apparently the audiences want screaming goats I guess
@@savioblanc Gorr was never ever going to be and Endgame level villain ,that’s like the biggest stretch I’ve ever seen ,Kang ,Doom are Endgame and multi project level villains ,Gorr was not even that big of a villain in the comics too ,he only existed for 5 issues max ,and got killed !How in the world do you expect him to be an Endgame level villain ?Atleast make it make sense !LMAO !🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@fahimalfaisal7781 I didn't say he should be. I gave an example of how he could be retconned into being one, atleast maybe as a specific threat to Thor, as he happens to be the only god character amongst the Avengers. If not an Endgame level threat, then more of an Avengers level threat, where the Avengers need to come together and fight againt him and help their friend Thor from a god killer, who has been slaying immortals across the Universe. Heck, Loki was the first villain the Avengers faced as a team and helped really solidify Thor's inclusion as an Avenger. Make another Avenger's movie where the team now comes together to help Thor out against a killer who has deservedly been titled a "god killer"
@@savioblanc that still doesn’t work ?Why would the Avengers most of them who’re not even a god should give any fuck about a god killer ?It makes no logical sense at all ,Gorr is only a Thor villain and ONLY works as a Thor villain ,trying to make him bigger than he already is would never work ,Loki was an Avengers level villain because he’s a multi project character and a personal relative to Thor ,which Gorr isn’t one ,Atleast make it make sense before spewing bullcrap ,it doesn’t work like that !LMAO !
I felt that the movie couldn't decide who it's protagonist was supposed to be. It should have been Gorr or Jane but couldn't commit. Everything you said is right and, actually, a discussion about the hubris of the gods would be a sensible progression from Ragnarok and Jane and Valkyrie both offer lenses to look through. The film even kind of recognises this but we don't hear their thoughts. Natalie Portman and Christian Bale elevated what would otherwise have been a complete misfire.
3:43 also maybe it could show that there are problems in the god section of reality where it seems a good chunk of gods are uncaring jerks. But some decent gods are around like Tawrett from Moon Knight. I think she tries her best. But I think I have a bias because I like the fan art of her being cute and having a good time with Moon Knight and Co.
Is it a controversial take to say I would’ve liked to see Kenneth Branagh return as the director instead of Taika for this? Just to see what his take on this plot would be. I literally just thought of that lmao. The movie was entertaining for the ~2 hours I was in the theatre, but it could’ve been so much more. What a shame, Marvel could really use a win right now. Ms. Marvel was great though! But it got buried and under-advertised. I would’ve liked to see Ms. Marvel as a movie and Love and Thunder as a D+ show - I wonder how that would’ve gone. Great vid!!
That's my whole problem with this movie, too many jokes, especially during moment when the tone should be serious, not for the characters to make more jokes. I felt that Thor, Jane and Valkyrie were never any danger during their battles with Gorr and the Shadow Demons.
Gorr was by far my favourite part of the movie and they really ruined it by cutting his scenes short and making him just an afterthought. Jane's story was absolutely tragic, but her illness was also treated badly. It was like the jokes were the core element but not even half of them resonated with me. And I say that as someone who loved the screaming goats. As you say, so many serious things to explore but Waititi couldn't care less about them (Gorr as a whole, Jane's cancer, New Asgard turning into a tourist spot and the Asgardians having to deal with the loss of their home, their people and their identity, Valkyrie having to deal with the weight of rulership, the indifferent or even cruel gods and how criticsm and resentment is totally valid and finally Thor's character himself). Honestly, at this point I probably would've liked the movie more if it was a spiritual successor of Thor 2 and not Thor 3 and I didn't even like Thor 2 to begin with.
this movie is so puzzling because I've seen cut footage of Zeus that feels like he's from a straight up different movie. How can it simultaneously feel like the director had too much freedom and too little control at once?
Personally I would’ve loved if Thor struggled with the fact that Gorr was mostly right about the Gods’ hubris but instead of allowing Gorrs mass genocide of the gods he decides a different solution. He goes back to Omnipotent city & after defeating the Olympians he takes control of the place & declares that they will have a more active role in protecting the mortals who worship them.
One of the key problems was that Chris Hemsworth overacted Thor and it would have been fine if we had a serious no nonsense character opposite him to bounce that off like Hulk and Loki in Ragnarok or like Colossus in Deadpool and Cable in Deadpool 2 but here there was no one like that and his humour felt flat because there was no one in front of him looking how ridiculous he sounded...instead we got Jane Foster and Valkyrie who instead of seeming ridiculed or annoyed or confused looked like they were serious about him...the first few minutes of tis movie worked like this when Quill and alien priest looked ridiculed by Thor and the humor worked but later on Valkyrie and Jane bought into everything Thor said not looking ridiculed and the humor did not work
Chris Hemsworth just did what the script told him to do. He's already shown in Thor and Thor:Dark World that he's capable of playing a more serious Thor
The hammer- story kind of sets Thor back, since in the third movie he's supposed to accept his powers coming from himself, not his weapons. There's even a little joke in Endgame, where Thor demands his Axe back from Cap and tosses him the 'little' hammer.
nothing since endgame has been worth watching except maybe far from home, and even that doesn't stack up to what came before. marvel is over as far as im concerned. they should've ended on the incredible high note of endgame and instead its just going to be an increasingly hollow money printer until it eventually peters out
I feel like they did Christian Bale dirty. He could of been an epic villain. A Thanos type. He didn’t just steal every single scene, he was the movie. If they built it up, and we sore the deaths of the other gods. He would of been frightening, however we only sore him kill one god, goat jokes, and thors arse… He could of been more!
We got 1.5 hours of the 4 hours that were shot. Bale has said he filmed scenes with Jeff Goldblum and Peter Dinklage that didn’t make the final cut. I liked the movie aside from the politics, but I feel like some good stuff probably got cut in editting.
You said it brother! You summarized it very well! Such a letdown this one!! It feels like they filmed it just for the insta reels and the memes, if not even that!
It feels like there’s a great movie waiting to be chiseled out of these two hours. I went into this movie with the feeling that it was gonna be my make-or-break MCU film. This was gonna be the movie that made me stick with the MCU or abandon it. Phase 4 has been quanity over quality for the most part and this movie unfortunately embodies that perfectly. If it just took a break from the humor and actually let the scene play out naturally and organically it would be a great theater experience if nothing else. The makings of a good movie are here, but it’s more like good-adjacent. Honestly, I’m not sure where I am with the MCU now and neither does this movie.
MCU probably don’t care as long as the movie makes a profit but eventually if they don’t pick up the quality their relevance will turn to dust. The movies that got me excited for the MCU were Shang-Chi and Spider-Man everything else felt like there could’ve been more and were kinda a letdown from what I thought the movie would’ve been.
This would have also benefitted from being a longer movie, but since Muricaaaans complained about Endgame's screen time (cause apparently they're not able to put a piss-break during movie as many countries do) Disney/Marvel is cutting all of its movies to be no more than 2 hr...and it shows. It' the same issue of MoM, you can see that it needed more space to develop its elements and the overall plot.
Man I felt the same way going in. The movie that would make or break the MCU going forward to me. After almost 14 years of watching every single movie on opening night Im sad to say Thor: L&T will be the last one
I feel like you hit the nail on the head with the huge missed opportunities with this movie. I will say one thing, however... To me it was blatantly obvious that Ragnarok too felt like a movie who viewed plot more like a chore it didn't want to get to, preferring to meander and wallow into tired jokes. Jokes that, admittedly, made me laugh the first go around. But on subsequent rewatches the fact Taika really didn't seem to care about all the "Asgard stuff" became quite apparent. Maybe on the first film, Taika had more oversight. Being the film that leads us right before Infinity War chronologically meant maybe Feige and the producers held tighter reigns on the tone and feel of the film. Something they didn't maybe feel the need to do here. And it shows. Basically what I'm getting at, is that the first film felt like Taika was allowed in the kitchen but his parents still forced him to put some veggies on his plate. In Love and Thunder, they left him alone to do diner for one evening, and he had nothing but candies and sweets. Which yeah, might taste kinda good in the moment, but overall are pretty bad for your health and rot your teeth in the end.
I felt the same towards Ragnarok. I enjoyed it the first time I saw it, mostly because I was caught up in the characters themselves/some of the nicer scenes (Odin's death etc). Writing-wise it's not so good and there's too much focus on the jokes. I'm also disappointed that we didn't get that Thor/Loki hug at the end. Love and Thunder took everything that was meh to annoying about Ragnarok and turned it up to 11.
i remember falling in love with the first thor movie, it had a distinct feel to it, dramatic themes, fleshed out characters and even humour, but never to downplay the emotional power of certain scenes. This is such a deprature it seems to laughs at the gravity of the first film, to mock it and therefore endlessly mock itself.It was in the avengers that they kind of messed up thor for the first time. multiple movies fixed it again, and now after love and thunder, we seem to be back at square one.
I'm not quite sure what you mean about the post credits scenes The first one hammers home Gorr is kind of right and sets up the next movie, Zeus wants to put the fear of god(s) back into mortals as a means of petty revenge. The second shows Gorr isn't entirely right, at least some gods *do* actually give the promised afterlife to their followers, which Gorr's god refused. Together they show that Gorr's hatred for *all* gods was misplaced, as the gods of the MCU do not exist as a monolith.
what an amazing summary of what the movie lacks and how it was very very disapointing and very much a wasted potential. this is exactly how i felt about the movie i just couldnt express it in words as good as you do
Also, the ice cream store at New Asgard was based on a small, funny comic story where a little boy gets the fully stocked Infinity Gauntlet and is able to use it to create ice cream cones from thin air. Thanos had lost the Gauntlet and keeps trying to get it back but keeps facing comedic obstacles, he even gets arrested by police at one point. I didn't care for the joke in the movie either.
Excellent analysis and exactly how I felt leaving the theater. TLAT doubles down on that overtly and overused sarcasm you see in movies like Deadpool 2. Loved Deadpool and Ragnarok but when everything is a joke and nothing's serious anymore, there lacks substance.
7:548:24 I was kinda confused why Gorr chose to kidnap & torment innocent children to punish/ leverage Thor tbh. I would've thought that his daughter's death would make him protective of children & want to punish the gods for failing them. Instead, he acc seemed to *enjoy* tormenting/ terrifying the kids based off of the scene where he ripped a snake's head off in front of them & laughed as they screamed.
I feel like I’ve entered some weird parallel universe, because most of the criticisms people have concerning „Love and Thunder“ are exactly the ones I had after watching Ragnarok. And back then people told me I was being to harsh, and sometimes even accused me of hating fun. And now where I’ve gone and seen „Love and Thunder“ I actually enjoyed it a lot, but everyone seems to hate it 😄
I'm really glad that more people are seeing how flawed this movie is as time goes by. After the first weekended It seemed like everyone was raving about it but I've noticed a lot people realizing that this movie is kind of a mess.
@@gamecokben Time definition: the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues. Yes, a week is a measure of time. And yes, a week has gone by.
@@goodfellabeats don't try to defend your asinine and ill-fitting use of that colloquial phrase. That is an insignificant amount of time to form the basis of an adequate frame of reference for reevaluating one's opinion of a movie. I think you're just a drama queen who wanted to sound like you had some profound comment to make but instead you just look like an exaggerating child.
There's also one thing I think is missed from this movie. And thats the question "what did it matter?". Every other MCU movie is treated as if it were a puzzle piece to a bigger picture. Being moved around like a chess board for a metaphorical "Endgame" (see what I did there).... but what is different at the end of this film that wasn't already there at the beginning? Jane Foster hadn't shown up since Thor 2, so it's not as if death was truly effective.
I actually disliked Ragnarok for the corny humor as well. I admit Dark World had issues, but I still liked it more. It doesn't have to be overtly grim for me to like it. To me, Love and Thunder was even worse.
My thoughts - gorr specifically needs heimdalls son to activate the portal, so he steals all the kids because he doesn’t know which kid it is. Thor and co chase after the kids to save them, showing gorr that not all gods are careless. Through Thor going through so many challenges yo save the kids, Gorr starts to have a change of heart.
6:00 Korg having a boyfriend didn't bother me but what did was when he mentioned he had two dads from which he was born from. In the previous movie he made mention of trying to start a rebellion but only his *mum* showed up to the meeting. There was no mention of his dad(s).
Real reason: Thor was supposed to be in GotG 3, that's why he went with them after Endgame, however between all that James Gunn was fired and then rehired and the movie got pushed back to after Love and Thunder, when it was supposed to come before.
*_Often, the first edit of a movie is much longer, than they trim it down. Love And Thunder was over 4h at first edit. There must be more Gor scenes in those 4h._* *_The movie didn't feel big, if that makes sense. Reading that it cost $250M and seeing it has a scene with the worst CGI seen in 30 years does not help. I was confused if the floating head was a gag? Also reading the people quit their jobs as "CGI artists" after Thor 4 is not good. I thought it was an inexpensive MCU movie while watching it, but I can't say for sure why? Gunna need a few days to ponder that._* *_Less Rock-Man scenes and more Gor scenes would have been most welcome, but Gor was not the main villain of the movie, it was (breast?) cancer._*
I think there could’ve been a really great dialogue between Gorr and Thor about how their gods failed them (Thor acknowledges this earlier to the kids about Zeus but would have been much more impactful telling Gorr directly). Then, after admitting failure and seeing Jane’s sacrifice, Thor could admit that he “failed” Jane as well, then proceeding into his “I just want to be with her in the end” moment. That would have given Gorr direct evidence that some gods really do care about and love their people, can feel shame and remorse, and can strive to do better. Only then would Gorr see that he wasn’t entirely correct and realize that he can finally trust a god with what is most precious to him in the world and what he believed another god had taken from him to start the film, his daughter.
Gorr is such an absolute showcase of missed potential. Like how do you have a man called the God Butcher only kill one god on screen. And who decided that this character would be the best for a ROM COM? like tf
I hope Tikia learns from this to tone down the jokes. Marvel already has a humor issue, adding Takia's messy jokes makes it strange to watch.
Christian stole the scenes he was in, I loved how intimidating Gorr was and how well acted the character was. I just wish he was given more to do and more gods to kill to really show how dangerous he is.
Could’ve done a lot of cool things with Gorr but no. The only thing that could tension into this movie had to Gorr and death of 1 God we don’t know isn’t really that threatening.
Gorr it's the most dark and evil villain in all mcu. Such a shame that marvel chose this silly movie to introduce him, completely ruined the atmosfere around the character
"God Butcher, not Gods butcher"
-this movie, probably
The fact that the main cast treat the kidnapped children as almost an afterthought and an opportunity to suit up and kick ass could have been an interesting plot point, Gor pointing out that even though Thor came, it wasn't because he cared about the children but because it gave him something to fight, pointing out that even the most virtuous gods are completely hypocritical and selfish, unworthy.
Instead funny goat scream ecks dee.
th-cam.com/video/4S7cQFOXL_0/w-d-xo.html
Finally it’s here.
Goat screeeee
Read the comics, if you smart you will see
The kids are the driving force of the movie, thor literally goes out of his way to communicate with more than once and shows clear concern for them. What your proposing is just ignoring what happened on the movie, just say you don't like the goat joke and don't make up bs to justify it.
@@johnman8398 nobody like the goat joke, i and over hundred of others would prefer this plot point.
Am I the only one that feels that it'll be great characterization if Gor was actually kind of nice towards the kidnapped children Instead of being creepy and one dimensionally villainous. Especially when he was recently a devout loving father who started his entire quest of killing all the gods because of the death of his child, and his Eternity wish on bringing her back.
Like seriously, Instead of conjuring and decapitating a snake to traumatize the children, Gor would summon cute shadow animals, put on a shadow theatre show, anything fun an experienced dad would do for kids . The dual personality of hatred towards gods but good nature towards children greatly empathizes Gor similarly how GOW humanizes Kratos with his interactions with Calliope, Pandora, and Atreus despite his bloodlust against the Greek and Norse gods.
To a further point, It'll been great if Axel (Heimdall's son and the Asgardian children are severely underdeveloped in the film) isn't persuaded by Gor belief that all gods should die, and claims that Thor is a hero who'll come rescue them. To this point, Gor argues that gods cannot love unless its love only to themselves. Gor goes into a tangent, that Odin built Asgard and its richness through warmongering and conquering the nine realms. Odin fails as a loving father, as his parenting methods led his son Loki (another god) into a dark path of murder and deceit. Loki disguised as Odin then let the nine realms fall into chaos, Hela (a goddess) subsequently breaks free and kills asgardian forces and the destruction of Asgard itself soon follows. All of these contributing factors allows Thanos to further genocide the Asgardian population including Axel's father, Heimdall, and erase half the universe. But did the gods come to help the grief-stricken populations due to the snap? No, they don't even help the Avengers or rebuild societies. They only party at Omnipotence City instead because according to Gor, Gods are incapable of love. Even Thor himself became a shut-in recluse before Endgame, getting fat from beer instead of leading his people in New Asgard.
But Gods are capable of Love, since Thor loves Jane Foster as a romantic companion despite being a human, and Frigga and Odin loved Loki as a son despite being a frost giant. Thor joins the Avengers to help people, and TVA Loki is going through an arc of becoming good. Its because of love that Thor and Loki despite their tumultuous past in the end are capable of recognizing each other as brothers. It becomes so potent that by the ending of Love and Thunder, that when Thor tells Gor to do what he wants with the eternity wish, Thor is comforting his dying ex-girlfriend clearly disproves Gor's philosophy that Gods cannot love.
TLDR: Gor should be like Kratos including being nice to Children; Love and thunder should've emphasized the "Love" aspect by exanimating if Gods are capable of loving others, and if all gods should be killed since they create a lot of the universe problems and refuse or ignore helping their people.
Yeah, I especially agree with your points about Gorr. I'd have loved it if he was kinder to them from the get-go, but I especially figured that he would be after noticing the girl with the stuffed rabbit. If I recall, the camerawork even emphasized her when all the children were locked up so there was potential for Gorr to at least show a different side of himself beyond being the God Butcher. But alas, I was disappointed at the wasted opportunity.
@@WingsOfDespair he was trying to be nice, the reason he brought out that creature and ripped the head off is because the kids were just talking about how cool it was when Thor did something similar. But they definitely should have shown more of that side of him.
It's extra depressing seeing TH-cam comments coming up with better ideas for the script but I was hoping to see Gor more like Kratos than whatever it is we ended up getting.
I really missed loki and thor together
Please write the next Thor movie.
This movie proves to me that Taika and Disney didn’t understand what made Ragnorak so beloved. Ragnorak was balanced and flowed almost perfectly imo. It was still goofy in places but it was spread out more than Love and Thunder which tried to throw jokes every 3 minutes
And to think that Taika Waipeepee was the same guy that gave us Thor: Ragnarok and back in the 2010s (2008 - 2019) before Phase 4, the MCU really was a series of badass, well-animated, empowering, inspirational, story-driven, relatable, gender-neutral cinema (unfortunately, though, Martin Scorsese was right… about 2020s MCU so far.) experiences.
@@kieranstark7213 Well Thor Ragnarok was trash. Great action so i can understand why Thor fanboys love it but the movie spits in the face of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and fans of the Hulk.Martin Scorsese will never be right because nobody decides what is and isn't art, especially the film makers themselves.
I'm gonna be honest, maybe I'm just a toxic Taika fan or whatever, but I refuse to put the blame on Taika Waititi himself. The guy can absolutely NAIL balancing humor and tragedy, like with Jojo Rabbit, and this doesn't feel like that at all, even though it really could've been. I feel like there's a good chance he was rushed by higher-ups trying to get as much frequent Marvel content out as possible
@@WiloPolis03 yea thats why i blamed Taika AND Disney lol
Ragnajoke was so balanced. Especially when we heard such amazing dialogue as "the devils anus".
The weird thing about this movie is just how small it all feels. A story about a dude going around and straight up MURDERING all the gods should feel like a big deal, but it never did for me. Thor: Ragnorok had lots of jokes too, but it still managed to make the plot feel epic. This movie fails to make me give a shit about anything serious.
Agree - a lot of series plot threads thrown away for a bit of comic relief
@@Paul_1971 bad comic relief.
@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 Very true - dont even get me started on the goats!
You’re right… if didn’t feel big
Probably the fight scenes are too small too limited. Even the moon is tiny. Not sure while they make god vs god fight scenes down to street level
The humor feels more like a parody of Taika Waititi's then something actually done by Taika Waititi.
His use of comedy is to convey various emotions through laughter. We see that in 'Ragnarok', where he adopted humor as means to cope. In 'Infinity War', this facade has cracked. In 'Endgame', it has consumed him.
In 'Love and Thunder', he's the comic relief of his own story.
Same i enjoyed the movie, it was a decent enough time to relax, however it does feel a lot like the undoing of thor's arc as a character so far
Feelings i got from this were similar to jojo. fine enough movie. looks like Ragnarok wasn't a trailer of greatness to come but more of his best work which he won't be topping any time soon.
ironically he wrote this one but didnt write ragnarok
@@mikemorgan6685
Which explains why Ragnarok, even though it had tons of jokes, still felt like a proper Marvel movie. It had a decent script.
because he was still using humor as a shield to protect himself from the pain but... yea people want to complain XD In Endgame he was depressed and started to trying feel good and happy by being more lazy and goofy. In Thor 4 he went for another epic adventure to have fun and ignore the pain. However, he got his moment with Star Lord and when the story goes deeper, he is more serious.
I like the movie, I know it has cons but humors isn't a negative side of it.
6:14 The subplot w/ Stormbreaker getting jealous was mildly amusing, but it was completely undermined at the end when Thor immediately gave Stormbreaker to Love as soon as Mjolnir was available for him to use.
its probably cause she isnt worthy enough yet to carry Mjolnir which is why Thor gives her stormbraker
Everything was undermined in this movie
One scene that got under my skin, was the scene where Thor is talking to the Kidnapped Children and Valkerie decides to play with Thor's nose.
That just points out how they can't let something serious simmer for any amount of time and how bad of a character she is for me
Yeah what was the point of that?
yeah i agree i genuinely didnt understand that part
She's not Valkyrie to me. I just call her character Tessa Thompson.
@@lukejack9551
Yeah completely. Improvising is not acting
No it’s Tyko. He’s an idiot. He only did it because he thought that it was funny.
Thor Love and Thunder legit felt like an Adult Disney Sitcom with a Budget and elements of action, and it’s such a shame that Gorr wasn’t featured that much considering Christian Bale does an absolutely fantastic performance for a character that barely has screen time
Not adult, childish. Also silly, and not funny at all.
@@0981462 I mean Adult Disney Sitcom is still childish and silly
You're right about that.
@#Thor4 Not Funny, Didn’t laugh
@#Thor4 I’ve heard a similar catchphrase before…
I very much summarize this movie as Disney seeing the great success of Thor: Ragnarok and then told Taika “You can do whatever the hell you want with this one.” And he took that to heart.
Cept he decided to find out what people disliked about ragnorok, and didn't want in love and thunder.. and make his movie based on that. and he's calling everyone else 'immature'. What a guy!
Funny thing is. Taika didn't write Ragnarok, but wrote L&T
@@pizzadogma wow! It makes it sooo much worse then! Shiiiit!
Exactly. That formula was successful in Ragnarok, they let him do that again. As simple as that. Some like it, some don't. This movie has some weaknesses? Of course! Does Disney care about plot, characters or reviews? I don't think so. As long as the movie sells tickets they will repeat the formula.
that is EXACTLY what happened lmfao. dude just dont care. he literally butchered this movie because of his own ego
Good analysis. I noticed that in "Thor: Love and Thunder", Thor acts absurdly at times, even stupidly in some occasions. But characters around him act like normal people and, at the same time, don't see anything strange in Thor's behaviour, except maybe thinking he is somewhat eccentric. In "Thor: Ragnarok" there already was a comedic tone, but Thor in that film was not as much of a clown and also the whole context was overall comical. Grandmaster was a funny villain. Loki, Hulk, Korg and the other gladiators, and even Valkyrie had their funny moments. In "Thor: Love and Thunder" we have a Thor that is a bufoon (even more so than in his previous movie) starring in a serious plot that includes a nightmarish villain, the death of a child, terminal cancer, child kidnapping, and questioning the very concept of religion. Independently of whether the joke works or not, I think that by making the main character a bufoon and making pretty much everybody around him act as if his behaviour is normal, the Thor movies are becoming more like Will Ferrell movies with each new instalment.
The bit where he's giving Great job, team speech as the structure collapsed behind him was straight up Leslie Neilson.
Absolutely! You’re spot on
Thor's goofiness in the film is meant to emphasize how fake Thor is and how right Gorr is about the gods.
@@ramoraid in that case, Jane should have been less goofy, instead of stressing about her 'superhero catchphrase'.
Really? Less goofy in Ragnarok? The guy who throws an object at a window which bounces and beams him in the head? I thought Ragnarok was a travesty that turned Thor into a moron
YES TO ALL OF THIS! The VERY beginning of the movie watching Gorr's daughter slowly die left such a strong impact for a darker and more reflective tone: commentary on the entitled hubris of gods, the faults of stubborn dogmatism from humans, and a reevaluation on how to find meaning in life and death. All the seeds were there. Thor being a terrible god/king in the past despite his best efforts. Jane literally DYING and finding purpose in the item that's killing her. Valkyrie losing her faith after senseless bloodshed.
And they did absolutely nothing with it! We went from that heavy scene to a horribly done montage with the Guardians acting out of character with zero stakes and Peter basically talking straight to the audience about what the movie's overdone theme was "supposed" to be. I'm still not over that whiplash. The script needed at least two other drafts to be worthwhile. Instead we got what felt like a first draft. But having seen Taika's other works I suspect this was more on Disney than him.
Marvel is suffering from MAJOR quantity over quality problems right now. And if they don't get their SHT together, they're gonna fly right into the sun. Marvel Studios isn't invincible. With plenty of other entertainment out there, both on social media, and in the film industry, it's only a matter of time before publics interest fades. I remember seeing a video of "Action Films of the Decade || BATTLE ROYALE." and while a mashup, it reminded me how much more STYLE some of those movies have compared to half of the MCU. Mad Max, Baby Driver, Mission Impossible: Fallout, John Wick, Kingsman: The Secret Service, they have SOMETHING in them that Marvel now just doesn't have...hell even movies IN the MCU back in the day you look at those and go "there was SOMETHING there." and that thing is just gone now. And it's WHY Disney CANNOT have a monopoly on film. Because then that thing...whatever it is that makes OTHER films unique and stylistic will just be gone.
marvel's going thru seasonal rot.
Well said
I hated a lot of phase 1&2 films. This just feels like a repeat of that. Hot takes incoming. Marvel never was great. Trash films like Iorn man 2&3, all thor films minus 3, both ant man films, captain marvel just an't it.
@@bryanmartinez4932 MCU had issues, but at least each film FELT different. Iron Man was NOT Captain America, Thor was NOT Doctor Strange. The cinematography, the editing, the CGI was all pretty top notch. Especially in movies like Doctor Strange and Iron Man 2008. That along with Transformers 2007, and Dark Knight really helped REVITALIZE the action genre. But now it's like Marvel's collapsed in on itself.
There never was a spark for me, all these films have always been fun and that's it. If I wanna watch a masterpiece I'll watch everything everywhere all at once, if I just wanna have fun with the kids marvel works just fine for me. That's always been my approach.
Between this and Dr Strange i think the warning signs are there that marvel fatigue could hit them hard in the next year or two
Yeah dude, so far the best thing in "Phase 4" has been the TV shows; and half of them suck too.
it's not fatigue because people want to see the heroes but quality is falling because of Bob Chapek
@@steveschenker1380 The only decent Marvel show was Hawkeye IMO, as it actually had a decent finale worthy of the rest of the series & didnt rush things or outstay its welcome
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Finally it’s here.
The fatigue has already been hitting for years, and it hasn't stopped them
When Oscar winning actors Natalie Portman and Christian Bale die on screen and you feel nothing...
Remember in God of War 3 where killing a god had massive consequences to the point of destroying the planet.
I wish we actually got that in Thor: Love and Thunder. Where everything that the god is about, ends up dying with them. Like in that opening scene, have the Oasis wither and die after Gorr killed the god there.
As someone who’s read Percy Jackson and the antagonist from the original series has a very similar perspective about the gods, it’s extremely depressing to see how absolutely uninterested Taika seems in, quite honestly, the most compelling aspect of this movie. Even Percy Jackson actually interrogated the legitimacy of the antagonists’ disdain for the gods….
Great point! I think PJO handles this issue very well. The antagonist also changes the protagonist’s minds and results in them enacting meaningful change 😮
Very true
As a Luke apologist I will side by Gorr here sorry thor
What I love about PJO is as you go along with the books and spin offs you can see the protagonists slowly adopting/understanding the god hating antagonist's mindset
Luke was definitely one of the best written characters in pjo
I wish that Sif was an actual character. She had feelings for Thor but the MCU never did anything with it. In this, Sif could have grown contempt towards Thor and how dumb he has become and how New Asgard is nothing but a joke and tourist trap. But nope, no Sif
That requires intelligence and intelligence is not something Waititi has any idea how to write. Notice that every single movie he makes, there are no intelligent characters, everyone is always a cartoon of some kind, with the only variation being just how dumb they are.
Taiki doesn’t seem to like any of Sif and the warriors 3
@@alexman378 Intelligence has nothing to do with this, what nonsense are you on about?
@@johnman8398 It requires a lot of intelligence to come up with a good and deep screenplay.
@@alexman378 Taika should not be given writing duties on any of his marvel films in the future. He wasn’t a writer on Ragnarok and that was infinitely better
SPOT ON! It also really bugged me when he says they need an army, but instead of reaching out to any of his Avenger friends, he goes to Zeus who he doesn't really know
Yeah but you could argue the Avengers are not in the same league as God's.
@@mementomori4591 You could say that, but I'm gonna take a wild guess that if Doctor Strange just dumped Gorr in the mirror dimension, this film would've been over pretty quick.
Marvel have actually been pretty good at writing their stories in such a way that the Avengers wouldn't intervene in P4:
BW: The Red Room etc obviously isn't an Avengers level threat
Shang-Chi: The Avengers don't know who Wenwu is or about the existence of Ta Lo, and Shang doesn't have the connections to contact then.
Eternals: Similar situation, the Avengers don't know about the Deviants or Tiamut, only the Eternals.
No Way Home: The Avengers (or at least, an Avenger) was involved - and he had to be somewhat conveniently written out. Peter obviously doesn't have the connections to get the others involved now that Tony is dead.
MoM: Simply put, nobody left in the Avengers is competent to deal with Wanda.
LaT though? No explanation, Thor just doesn't ask. I'm sure if he rocked up to the Sanctum and said "hey, this guy is trying to kill every god in the universe and kidnapped a bunch of kids, can you help me", Strange would've been more than happy to.
The avengers are gone dude 🤦
@@christianalexander579 You clearly haven't been paying attention 💀
@@Convergant As an add-on to MoM, considering her reality-warping abilities, Wanda is way too powerful for anybody else to face; she'd do to them what she did to the Illuminati.
Also, I don't think "competent" is the right word; they're competent, but she's so out of their league that all they'd do is buy America time.
Zeus's line in the mid-credits scene got me thinking about how the film could've shown both sides of the story when it comes to the relationship between Gods and Mortals. I mean, how often does Humanity treat it's Deities as wish-granting Genies, then rarely thank them while slandering them and playing up their flaws
You see this in both Fiction, Religion and Mythology:
- For fiction, take Disney's Moana, where even though Maui devoted his life to making life easier for Humanity and giving them blessings, he get's villainized by them for one (admittedly big) mistake that he was powerless to fix while they forget everything he did for them
- In Religion, a good example would be Jehovah God, he frees the Israelites from slavery in Egypt, then a short time later they start committing Blasphemy, or when he makes it rain Manna so they don't starve in the wilderness, but then they start demanding Meat and Bread, or how he saves Israel from it's enemies time and time again, but the Israelites keep taking up false worship, and nowadays God gets portrayed as a distant, cruel and apathetic guy who just "doesn't get it"
- And with Mythology, alot of the worst traits about the Greek/Roman Gods were made up by a Roman Poet named Ovid during the late BC/early AD era due to been bitter about been banished
Now imagine having to put up with all that by the very people who go around making demands of you, at what point would enough be enough?
Another interesting story about the relationship between gods and mortals is Tolkiens Numenor in the Simarillion. (Spoiler!!) Its about a powerful group of humans being gifted by the gods with a beautiful island and long lifes, but then turning on them because they wanted more, in the end being nearly completely destroyed by the gods.
This too. It seems wierd that nowadays in fiction it seem Gods have some sort of obligation or divine duty to take care of humanity which...isn't really present in most religion or myths.
I thought the part where Thor destroys the alien temple in the beginning of the movie was going to come back somehow to prove that Gorr was right and that Thor needed to change his behavior as a god. But no, it was just a joke about Thor being dumb and careless.
You’re putting too much thought, Waititi is directing this, relax.
@@alexman378 damn what you got against him
@@bibi-bi9qu I simply can’t fathom how someone so talentless not only fooled audiences into thinking he’s good, but also fooled an entire studio to give him a massive budget so he could completely destroy a character with so much potential. The only good thing about this movie is that it finally woke people up.
@@alexman378 he’s got some stuff to his track record. what we do in the shadows is some of my favorite vampire material, and hunt for the wilder people was properly funny. But his reigns on the mcu have been an assortment of chaos and BS i’ll tolerate no longer. Interviews make him sound like an insufferable goon too, so screw em
Also he should be much more careful than that after his lose in IW
This movie felt like 3 different genres just kinda thrown together. It tried to be a comedy like Ragnarok, but it also tried to be an action movie and also serious and dramatic. The villian was pretty cool, but he didn't really make a lot of sense in the movie
There’s a small detail I only picked up on the second time around that Gorr actually cuts his hand on the sword when he’s crawling into the oasis, effectively cursing himself and why the sword “chooses” him. Again, it could’ve been clearer but there is reason it floats to him at that moment
100% agree. Chris Hemsworth and Taika Waititi REALLY want Thor to be the Jack Sparrow of the cosmos.
My biggest take away plot wise was that everyone wanted to fight. Saving the kids and the gods was an after thought. Valkyrie got bored sitting behind a desk, Thor on his quest to find love found a villain, Jane having cancer and knowing that Mjolnir was killing faster than her disease wanted to live her life like a hero and make her death meaningful. Sif didn’t want action she was protecting one of the most generous and peaceful gods. However doing so and going to Valhalla would have been a win win. It wasn’t a bad movie, but it wasn’t at all the movie I thought I was walking into. I was hoping for Jane and Thor to make peace with each other, being together or broken up. Valkyrie would defend New Asgard as a hero and not a tired administrator wanting some action. At least let us watch Jane and Valkyrie bond as warriors together as a sisterhood something Valkyrie openly talked about.
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Finally it’s here.
you get what you get. screw Taika Waititi
This film hates Valkyrie lol 😆. She has virtually no character development whatsoever. She starts the movie disgruntled and jaded about the beuracroacy of leadership and by the end...she kinda likes it more now, I think? She ends the film literally in the exact same way she started it. The film also felt like it had no stakes. If the protagonists and characters aren't invested or don't care about the conflict driving the film, then why should I?
@@ryanhalawani2637 I honestly thought Valkyrie was trying to resurrect her warrior sisterhood at the end. There was boys in there, which like yeah okay. Umm…. So she knows what she likes fighting alongside warrior woman. She knows what she does not like, the paperwork of being a monarch. Yet here we are she does what she hates and dreams about what she loves.
@@juliettek.9440 Yeah but nothing really changed for her character. Her character since Ragnarok to Endgame and now Love and Thunder is exactly the same. I just feel her and her story and trauma get overlooked consistently and worst of all, in this film it's overlooked just to tell more unfunny jokes.
Can I also add that I wish they kept Thor the way he was at the end of endgame. I feel like they could have built off that greatly, imagine Gorr the god butcher is on his way to kill all the gods, Thor meanwhile is training to get back in shape and boost his confidence back up. It would make the payoff with him fighting Gorr feel much more earned and epic. We saw the broken Thor finally returned to his old self.(basically like no way home but with a different approach) Instead they gloss over it like none of it mattered. I genuinely thought maybe the first act was going to have him training and getting back in shape. At least a solid 20-30 minutes maybe.
That would have been great. Also having the guardians have a more prominent role in the movie instead of just one scene and being kicked out. Like what was the point of that setup at the end of Endgame of Thor finding a new family with the guardians if they’re just gonna throw it out?
He was the same as he was in endgame though, he just lost weight which was a superficial thing and has very little to do with his character. Actually think about how absurd Thor training for 30 mins is please.
@@johnman8398 I mean have his weight loss be a part of the journey. Okay maybe not 20 to 30 minutes I take that back, but honestly I think it would have been much cooler if they implemented that into the story. And by the time he fights Gorr he's Infinity war Thor. Lastly I think a longer runtime would have helped, you can tell certain things were cut and left on The cutting room floor.
@@nickasaro8789 No the guardians did not need a more prominent role, it was clear they just travelled together for a little while and that's it. They were never set up as new family, that's just an assumption you made.
@@rogueguardian I agree with longer runtime but every else is a nah.
People always joked about the dark world being bad. I always really liked that movie. The mysterious asgard viking world felt so magical and thor was more serious. I watched it after love and thunder and I even appriciate the hollow dark elves that thor in that movie takes very seriously.
Same the only bad part was the villan tbh
I really liked the dw it was way better than iron man 2 and 3 but iron man is obviously way better
Honestly, I think the former dislikers of the 2010s Thor movies (for either purely subjective or inexistent reasons) would definitely have new appreciation for these movies after having to suffer from the biggest joke of an MCU movie that is Love & Thunder.
The first two Thor movies are really underappreciated, especially the first one.
If you read the comics you'll understand why people despise Thor the Dark World. It destroys Maleketh as a character and Kurse too. That character has so little in common with the actual Maleketh, even the cartoon got the character right.
The Gorr storyline is legitimately something along the lines of The Dark Knight trilogy. On top of that they actually managed to get an actor that could have done justice to a dark philosophical movie regarding the gods, wether they deserve to exist and their responsibilities and wether they live up to them.
Then you also add in the Mighty Thor storyline with her dying of cancer.
Instead they took those storylines and made it Adam West Batman rather than The Dark Knight. However after ruining any possibility for World War Hulk/Planet Hulk with Ragnarok he now ruined any chances for a good version of Gorr's storyline in Love and Thunder so just Taika being Taika and not giving 2 shits about the stuff he is creating if it isn't his original idea/character/universe.
Exactly, if Marvel had any balls whatsoever then they would've used this phase as the chance to say hey, we're finally making dark shit and getting deeper. If they did that with MoM and Love and Thunder, it could've catapulted the MCU to even greater heights. But instead, we get the fucking same washed out eyesore colors and shitty tone consistency that's been a problem for the post-Thanos MCU.
Honestly having Thor’s powers and abilities in Marvel being passed on as an mantle doesn’t really fit well with his character.His name is Thor and his title is the god of Thunder.What happens when other characters could just control that power now? He’s just Odin’s son but with the title and power.It’s like he’s an empty shell of a character strip of his godhood.
It also doesn’t help that they had to adapt the shitty Jason Aaron Thor run where he completely ruins everything cool and special about Thor by have Jane acquire his title and powers/abilities.She drags down his character with her constant one up’ing him and showing off how capable she is as “Thor” than he is yet JA still try’s to give her an emotional send off like we care
Thor should have been with Lady Sif(Marvel’s underrated WW) rather than Jane (Marvel carbon copy of Lois Lane)
I was glad that she died in before the comic and super glad that she died in the movie
Did you hear Taika in an interview for Love & Thunder where he said he liked to go on Reddit and read what fans DON'T want, and purposely put that into the movie? I understand he wants to challenge himself creatively, but that doesn't seem like a good approach to me. Marvel has done a good job at deviating from the source material but still gives nods or pays homage to key moments in the comics. Also, Taika was supposedly mandated to keep the movie to under 2 hrs, which I think hurt the film.
Did we really need a movie over 2 hours? Why not just a good 2 hour movie? That's a creative challenge.
I don't know why this movie and Multiverse of Madness were around two hours when the previous ones of this phase have been around two and a half hours, these too needed those extra minutes. Strange.
@@O1OO1O1 could’ve prevented the movie from feeling rushed
You could have cut Korg and Valkyrie from the movie completely to save some time and it wouldn't have changed anything in the story.
That sounds like Rian Johnson and his obsession with subverting expectations… and we all know how that turned out.
the worst aspect of this movie for me was the end card saying that "thor will return."
to do what? as far as i'm concerned, his arc and most important character growth already happened in ragnarok, infinity war, and endgame, and now all i expect out of him narratively is to just raise his adopted daughter (incredible bit of nepotism on the casting front btw). if anything, i would've been fine with thor dying and jane taking over like everyone expected. it would've been interesting to see someone so powerful yet inexperienced leading the series.
Right? So sick of them keeping Thor imprisoned in a character limbo where they refuse to allow him to be King in favour of 'King' Valkryie the enslaver who twice refused him helping their people in favour of keeping him a prisoner for the Grandmaster. And now he's regressed into the God of Hammers again with Mjolnir despite, in the context of the MCU, having upgraded to what Eitri called 'The King's Weapon' and for a 2nd movie ends just fucking around, first with the Guardians and now with...Gorr's daughter of all random people? What the hell are they doing to Thor instead of giving him a respectful arc ending like Cap and Tony?
His next adventure will be his stand up comedy career change
When that showed up someone in my theaters shouted “another one??!”
@@bibi-bi9qu 'When does it fucking end!?'
Need another movie of Thor finding himself
Honestly, the best version of Thor in the MCU was in Infinity War. It really balanced the serious Shakespearean dramatic version of Thor from the early Thor movies and the goofy comedic Thor from Ragnarok. Besides Thanos, Thor was the only character who had an arc in the movie. The movie treated him like an actual superhero-god(his entry in Wakanda 🔥). In that regard, Endgame was a hard left turn for the character. While I agree that Thor would turn into a depressed alcoholic after his loss in Infinity War, but the way the other characters react to his pain and struggles, barring in the some moments, is baffling. How they have no empathy for him(especially Rhodey, and he was being a total dick to him) is ridiculous. And finally, Love and Thunder completes that arc and turns him into an absolute clown.
At this point, I feel like the MCU has no respect for Thor. Hulk became an absolute joke since Ragnarok, and Thor is also going the same way. The same goes for some of the other legacy characters. They butchered Black Widow with that pointless prequel, and although for the most part I liked the Loki TV series, Loki himself felt like a side character in his own show. Sylvie was instead the main character of the show, as she had a more visible character arc than Loki did.
Overall, this indicates the kind of approach that the MCU has, and it kind of sickens me. The lack of respect that they have for their older characters ultimately will become detrimental for the franchise, which apart from the bad storytelling, has made so many people lose interest in the MCU.
Since you mentioned Loki ... they also butchered his character. While I enjoyed the TV series, those therapy sessions and how they tried to make him the good guy was strange. He is the God of Mischief after all. They made him too soft, weak and vulnerable. It was very cheesy. The character didn't feel like the Loki we know.
@@pincopallino8176 yes. Loki works best as an antihero, although I think his redemption arc was well done in the MCU. It was kind of surprising how Loki reacted to his actual journey and getting killed by Thanos. He kind of believed it, which is not how The Avengers era Loki would do. I also think that they should have kept his mischievous antihero side right up till the end when he meets He Who Remains. Loki should have gone along with Sylvie, with the plan to take down HWR, and it should have been then that his actual fate gets revealed to him, which for him would have been shocking and changing his whole character. I think that would have worked nicely and would have been consistent with his character.
Rhodey is a dick because in that way he can cope the fact that he is a boring sidekick lol
Totally agree, and I am one of those that almost have lost all interest.
Thor, in Endgame, I struggled with to, but I could take; but it was still Thor as I got to know him in MCU. That Thor is now completely dead. This Thor-movie I could not even finish.I did not like all 3 hero-characters. Villain was good but therefore did not matter.
I dont watch the disney+ series, and in my opinion those series shouldnt excist at all. To create a cinematic universe is ambitious enough. And for so long MCU did a very good job if you consider how ambitious that is.
The MCU all the way to Endgame had a few movies I was disapointed with, but for a large part it was surprisingly strong for essentially popcorn- entertainment.
Captain Marvel I did not like and Antman2 I thought was very poor compared to Antman. But everthing else I rated 6-9 out of 10.
After the Avengers-saga they totally did not manage to get me interested in Eternals.
Spiderman I ll give another change, although for me the last one has much issues. Dr Strange surprised me in a positive way but only cause I expected worse. Black Widow was very poor. Black Panther derailed but I can see why.
Now I want to wash out memories of Guardians in this Thor-movie and I hope that somehow GotG3 can deliver. The first 2 belong within the top of the MCU imo.
But I am barely hanging in there.
@@jankleijn6438 GoTG3 was amazing imo :)
Ultron, Iron man 3 mandarin, and Gorr all had the potential to be something truly amazing
I agree through and through. This movie could've been an absolute Top 5 MCU movie, with the cast they had and the story they were adapting but nope. We got something mediore at best and rushed.
Before watching this, I feel this is about Gorr. I saw so much potential with his character but he was just a creepy villain, that’s all. I thought I would see a somewhat a good side in him like he wants all the gods dead but when he captures that kids, I was expecting him to try to relate and be nice to them, slowing convincing them to stop relying on gods for them not to fall in disappointment and despair like he did.
Spoilers: when the rock from the columns was about to fall on the kids, I was expecting to see Gorr use his shadow powers to teleport them away and save them, showing that he has fatherly qualities left in him. This would have felt satisfying in the end where Gorr is going to make the wish.
What does anyone think about this?
Yes! I thought exactly the same! I was surprised actually when I saw Thor was holding up the column. The scene where Gorr is talking to the children and trying to show them things in a twisted sense of trying to cheer a child up, was them setting up that despite his new bloodthirst for the end of all gods, that his fatherly side remained intact. I thought it was meant to show that he still had that side of him and was setting up him being more of a grey villain. I think they could have really made Gorr so much more effective by showing the damage that the gods cause to people, to justify his actions. Gorr is literally an underdeveloped Kratos. Also, am I the only one who thought that as soon as they said that Gorr wants to wish for all the gods to die, that his real wish was actually just to bring Love back. But then they get to eternity and thors like you can wish her back and I was so confused cause I thought that’s what he was gonna do anyway lol
@@lotty-rose2393 he even says what kind of father would i be if i didnt, but i think thats when he snapped back, remember, in a way the necrosword controlled him and it was destroyed seconds before, so maybe he realized he was being controlled
@@lotty-rose2393 my question is, why couldnt gorr wish to cure himself, jane, and everyone he hurt, so everyone could live happy, even if jane lost the powers, idk yeah thor having a daughter like in that movie with ultron is cool, thorun, yeah thats her name, and jane in valhalla works for me too, but yeah i get natalie may not wanna return, and if someday hemsworth leaves too they have the daughter as new thor
Sorry to be that guy but apparently in the comics, Gorr is known to have a soft spot for mortals. There is a panel where followers of Thor attack him but he refuses to fight them because he believes them ignorant and blind. This surely would have helped with his characterization in the movies.
@@JarvisPen really? wow. They had the ingredients right there to make him an amazing character, and they literally ignore what I expected him to act, Kind to mortals, hateful towards gods
5:51 "in ragarok, he helped lead a slave uprising"
no, he talked about a revolt and we got like a scene of chaos
but we never saw him do any actual convincing (handing out pamphlets is a joke) nor do any actual leadership in the revolt. The chaos of the revolt is shown briefly as a joke.
People look at Ragnarok with rose-tinted glasses because it was the first experience with this director for many people. But it had the same issues. Waitaki has NEVER been able to do actual serious work without undercutting it with a joke.
That "scene of chaos" is the uprising in question. It happens quickly because Thor's group escapes quickly, but most of the scene focuses on Thor's side of the uprising and leaves Korg's group behind to finish the mission while Thor's group tries to get to Asgard ASAP.
Two huge issues I want to point out: How did Jane get to Eternity so quickly to help Thor with no Bifrost etc., and the fact that it was obvious that the whole point of kidnapping the children was to draw Thor out and get Stormbreaker, and once he had that there was no reason for him to still keep the children, which just seemed like a liability for him at that point
Plot.
Or she used the abilities of the Valkyrie's horse /that were explicitly mentioned in the damn movie/.
Because they’ve pretty much turned Jane Foster into a Mary-Sue when she used to at least feel like a genuine human being like everyone else in Thor 1 & 2.
@@kieranstark7213
It's the first time she feels like a real person and genuine human rather than a plot point called "Thor's love interest".
I feel like we could’ve had both the Christian Bale Gorr and the comic book version of Gorr. It would be kind of interesting to see the sword progressively corrupt Gorr and his appearance. Plus Thor was only with the Guardians for like 5 minutes and then left.
I liked this movie for what it was, but I really wish there was a plot where the Asgardians/Valkyrie didn’t want Thors help, because they feel like he abandons them whenever he wants. It could have seen Valkyrie/Foster leading a small group of Asgardians to fight Gorr and losing, making Valkyrie struggle with her role as a leader, idk there’s just more that could’ve been done there
Yeah I can understand that
There's some unresolved conflict between the asgardians and Thor
But remember Thor is their God and he helped them during ragnarok so..
That would have been interesting, for Gorr to lecture the Asgardians and almost try and make them turn against Thor! And Thor would have to prove himself that he is there for them and the children. Instead of galabanting off into space with Guardians.
@@Natta44 very good point
Not sure how credible someone who abandoned her duty for thousands of years would be accusing someone else of being derelict.
@@donkeysaurusrex7881 I get what you’re saying, but she’s the literal king of Asgard right now, no?
Something that I think should be talked about is the strange sort of switcheroo it does with it's message. The overall theme is that you need love in your life, and it does this by showcasing Thor and Jane. But at the end when Jane dies, Thor replaces her love with the love of... The little girl. One who he really has no relationship with, and who had nothing to do with Jane.
It's seemingly implying that you can just fix yourself after losing a romantic relationship by swapping it out for a parental one, like putting in a new graphics card or something. And that's just not how human emotions work. I feel like it's inadvertently giving terrible advice on how to manage loss.
Thor Love and Thunder's problem is that Ragnarok was so well received. I profoundly disliked Ragnarok because its tragic story was almost systematically undercut by humor to the point where the story took a back seat... but many moviegoers loved it precisely because of all the humor it had.
So it's only natural for Marvel to want to double down on the humor everybody liked last time around and create a big farce in which absolutely nothing's taken seriously.
I still haven't gotten over how Asgard's destruction was turned into a joke. Like, the Asgardians were seeing the only home they'd ever known being blown to pieces, becoming a nation of refugees who at that time had nowhere to go, and Waititi makes a fucking joke out of it.
Imagine something like that happening in Infinity War:
*Thanos snaps his fingers*
Korg: Well, he managed to wipe out half of all life, but as long as we have each other we have a solid foundation to rebuild our world-
*half the Avengers turn to dust*
Korg: Oh, there goes everyone.
@@RevanSurik i have to disagree because while they do make a quick joke out of it, the whole situation is still very somber. The explosion having a funny timing doesn't mean it isn't of consequence to the characters. Most of Ragnarok has drama under its comedy, most of its jokes highlight the various characters' insecurities which is what the movie is about. Love and thunder on the other hand has no dramatic gravitas underneath its humor
@@scramblingtheegggs3603 Well, I guess we should agree to disagree :P I doubt even Waititi would've put a joke in a scene where, say, Peter Parker was watching Queens being destroyed, or T'Challa was watching Wakanda being destroyed. Even Sokovia's destruction was played more seriously; there were quippy moments there too, I could feel the danger and the disaster. Asgard's Ragnarök, by comparison, hit me a lot less hard (and as a Thor fan I actually cared about Asgard).
I liked it first time I saw it but it’s slowly become unwatchable after a few rewatches. It’s really not very funny just moronic.
@@RevanSurik Yep, Asgard’s destruction scene really was the icing on the “let’s make fun of everything” cake. It really pissed me off because if there was one scene which should have been joke free it was that one (and Odin’s death, although I don’t remember how that scene was treated, saw Ragnarok only once… never could get myself to watch a second time).
All the complaints many people have about Love and Thunder I had after Ragnarok.
The serious aspects of Love and Thunder's stories and the source material they had from the comics were more than enough to fill a masterpiece of a Thor trilogy around Jane Thor and Gorr, instead, they decided to not only try to fit it all in one of the shortest MCU movies to date, they tried to fit it all in a comedy that was too focused on bad jokes to actually develop anything meaningful. Especially having known the brilliant story Gorr had in the comics, how well-developed Jane Thor was when combined with Unworthy Thor, and how amazing of a character Thor is in Donny Cates's Thor comics with a tone similar to Infinity War Thor which they should have kept, I would have walked out of the theater had I not been with a group, the movie was extremely disappointing.
Very well said!
@@jonainsworth9157 you mean despite the typos? Even with that it's not well said. He said nothing of substance.
@@gamecokben do better, boy
At this point, we kinda expect Disney to waste Marvel villains, but they wasted Mighty Thor's ENTIRE story in this movie.
They made it for children. To entertain them while filling their minds with the new propagandas.
They had so many opportunites to address interesting themes and topics (If the gods are good, why is there so much suffering? If the gods are indifferent to human suffering, do we even need them anymore? Why do hope and love still matter in the face of death and destruction?) And they did exactly nothing with it and just gave us Thor: SNL Style instead. The whole thing felt like a parody of a Marvel movie, and not in a good way.
The whole time I was watching this, I noticed it felt like a parody of a Thor movie. The tools and concepts of a good story are there, but as you said, are turned into jokes. That's why it felt like a parody. That's how parodies work, and that's what this movie is.
I’m so glad you made this video. Everyone I’ve talked to has loved this movie and I felt like I was missing something, because I was super disappointed walking out of the theatre.
I am glad that a lot of the Hardcore MCU fans are finally starting to notice the implementations of SO many jokes being in the MCU with the lack of some serious moments sometimes at least but it’s more of like everybody is just a master of Quips rather than it just being Spider-Man really
Which makes Spiderman less unique
They dont incorporate jokes all the time just for certain characters, Iron Man and Spiderman is at least where it works, Thor Ragnarok too. Doctor Strange is the only character I feel who shouldn't be as quippy as he is
This comment really annoys me, because you don't get *why* the jokes in this movie don't work. They don't work because the movie's plot is so serious. It's about Jane having cancer, children being kidnapped, a man losing faith in the gods. And yet, all we get is screaming goat jokes.
The jokes worked significantly better in Thor Ragnarok because the movie was so silly. That movie was a jolly space adventure set on a planet run by Jeff Goldbloom. Of course the humor in that movie works better.
So please, before just saying "jokes bad", think about why they work in some movies and don't in others.
SPOILERS; I'm kind of confused about what was so bad about the post credit scene. To me it seemed super important to the story. Gorr's god tells him that there is no afterlife for mortals, no eternal reward, all the devotion and suffering was wasted and Gorr was just a pawn. Then Gorr goes on this rampage and the story happens. At the end we see that Jane who is a mortal has reached Valhalla. The eternal reward in this case is real and the gods aren't all entirely evil and just tricking mortals, showing how Gorr actually was at least partially in the wrong in the end and there was a point to the hero's whole journey. If that hadn't happened it seems to me like essentially a story about the 1% of power keeping all those below them in line for no reason but their personal gain.
Plus is a clear set-up for Jane returning. Won't say more to not make spoilers.
Well said
Same. I don't understand what he is saying regarding that. Have to disagree with him there.
What so bad about it is that, people can’t just die in the mcu. They always have to be brought back in some way. Showing Jane in Valhalla leaves the door slightly open for a comeback. It also makes her death scene lose some weight.
@@MrReset94 Regardless of it setting up future stuff, which I wasn't my initial takeaway but makes sense, I still feel like what I said stands true. But I could see how somebody could see that and groan about the impermanence of any story decisions in a franchise like this.
Perfectly said. Great video as always
Easily the best and the most honest review I’ve seen. Kudos!
I think the best way to describe this movie is that the entire script just feels like a “studio note”, y’know? That infinity cones thing especially felt like something someone pressed Taika to put in the movie so they can have a reason to make it a real ice cream shop for the Avengers campus or whatever.
Even more so potential wasted- the MCU is still fresh out the Snappening. So Gorr would have been a FANTASTIC opportunity to expand on how the gods hubris was so high-not a single one were concerned with half of life being annihilated.
Anyone else think it was shocking that Thor joked about having eaten children as he went off to save the children?
Yeah it was completely out of character for him to casually admit he's a child eating cannibal. There's nothing heroic about that, even most super villains don't cross that line.
You explained everything perfectly, thanks for the great review.
Even though I ultimately enjoyed the film and did feel that the emotional moments that this film was interested in exploring were done well (and I'll admit that the goats joke got a laugh out of me the 5th time), I do agree that a lot more could have been done to flesh out Gorr and the theme of selfish gods. I wouldn't have minded an extra 30 minutes of Gorr butchering gods and Thor questioning how he as a god has affected the lives of those that worship him. Hell, Zeus' speech in the post-credits introduced an interesting theme of the gods of old being replaced by superheroes and the side of his character shown there could have been more prominent throughout his scenes.
Trend: Thor: Love & Thunder reviews starting by pointing out how much the reviewer liked Ragnarok. It's telling.
I think you nailed it. Good video
Jane's death kind of reminds me to Padme's death, both characters died for love of their "superhuman" boyfriend/husband, one is failure another is triumph, when that scene reminds me of ROTS it made me emotional 😂.
The fact that the director now wants to do a Thor Christmas Special tells you everything you need to know about this franchise and the MCU
@Oreofe Idowu Just because it can doesn't mean it should.
Completely agree. I enjoyed the comedy in "Ragnarok", but this time around it seemed so forced. The jokes were mostly not funny, and they took too much away from the tone of the more dramatic villain and cancer plots. Gorr could have been a truly terrifying villain, but most of his god-butchery took place off-screen, and the gods were all depicted as such useless, selfish idiots that I found myself on his side more than theirs. I wouldn't call the movie terrible, but there was so much tonal whiplash and so many eye-rollingly bad jokes that it's definitely one of the weakest MCU movies.
This movie for me is like Gotg Vol 2 all over again but like 10x worse. Everyone remembers the previous movie being funny so they double or even triple down on the comedy forgetting to put an interesting plot and at the expense of turning characters into fladerized versions of themselves
Goes to show you how bad Thor 3 was
@@grandmastercadillac9052 Gotg vol 2 was atleast decent though, it still got serious and emotional when it needed it to be. And vol 3 will probably be more heavier and grounded since Gunn learned to make film better with Suicide Squad and Peacemaker.
Yo, amazing comment.
Thor could have been given a revelation. Although his father, Odin, loved him and Asguardians, he did really messed up things before Thor's birth. It could have been given the opportunity to sympathize with someone as heinous as Gorr because Thor loved his father even after knowing the truth of his past. He loved the God, the king, who was warlord over the nine realms, at some point in the past. Thor could have stated that what Gorr was doing was absolutely horrific, but he understands Gorr's feeling of betrayal.
You absolutely nailed it. There were so many problems with tone from the offset. It was also very forced, as if I could see the cogs of the machine this time. That shot of Thor doing his scooby doo “Jane????” And the long pause, it was like I was watching bad theatre.
The sword teleported to his hand because when he was eating the fruit, he cut his hand on it, thus infecting him and having entered his body, he was chosen as the next host of the parasite that was the necrosword
Eh they could’ve had Gorr as an endgame level villain judging by how badass he is in the comics. Also they apparently cut sooo many of Gorrs scenes out from the film.
Why have those when you can have screaming goats instead?
He really would have been perfect as an Endgame level villain. Imagine each new Marvel movie has an end credit scene of Gorr butchering some god and him finally coming across Asgardian deities and they reveal there are more on Earth and now he is coming for Thor himself.
Best, imagine he does come down to Earth only to find Thor is out gallivanting across the Universe with the Guardians, so he is now actively hunting Thor through the Universe without Thor even aware.
Honestly there is so much you could do with this character but apparently the audiences want screaming goats I guess
@@savioblanc Gorr was never ever going to be and Endgame level villain ,that’s like the biggest stretch I’ve ever seen ,Kang ,Doom are Endgame and multi project level villains ,Gorr was not even that big of a villain in the comics too ,he only existed for 5 issues max ,and got killed !How in the world do you expect him to be an Endgame level villain ?Atleast make it make sense !LMAO !🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@fahimalfaisal7781 I didn't say he should be. I gave an example of how he could be retconned into being one, atleast maybe as a specific threat to Thor, as he happens to be the only god character amongst the Avengers.
If not an Endgame level threat, then more of an Avengers level threat, where the Avengers need to come together and fight againt him and help their friend Thor from a god killer, who has been slaying immortals across the Universe. Heck, Loki was the first villain the Avengers faced as a team and helped really solidify Thor's inclusion as an Avenger. Make another Avenger's movie where the team now comes together to help Thor out against a killer who has deservedly been titled a "god killer"
@@savioblanc that still doesn’t work ?Why would the Avengers most of them who’re not even a god should give any fuck about a god killer ?It makes no logical sense at all ,Gorr is only a Thor villain and ONLY works as a Thor villain ,trying to make him bigger than he already is would never work ,Loki was an Avengers level villain because he’s a multi project character and a personal relative to Thor ,which Gorr isn’t one ,Atleast make it make sense before spewing bullcrap ,it doesn’t work like that !LMAO !
I felt that the movie couldn't decide who it's protagonist was supposed to be. It should have been Gorr or Jane but couldn't commit.
Everything you said is right and, actually, a discussion about the hubris of the gods would be a sensible progression from Ragnarok and Jane and Valkyrie both offer lenses to look through. The film even kind of recognises this but we don't hear their thoughts.
Natalie Portman and Christian Bale elevated what would otherwise have been a complete misfire.
3:43 also maybe it could show that there are problems in the god section of reality where it seems a good chunk of gods are uncaring jerks. But some decent gods are around like Tawrett from Moon Knight. I think she tries her best. But I think I have a bias because I like the fan art of her being cute and having a good time with Moon Knight and Co.
Is it a controversial take to say I would’ve liked to see Kenneth Branagh return as the director instead of Taika for this? Just to see what his take on this plot would be. I literally just thought of that lmao. The movie was entertaining for the ~2 hours I was in the theatre, but it could’ve been so much more. What a shame, Marvel could really use a win right now. Ms. Marvel was great though! But it got buried and under-advertised. I would’ve liked to see Ms. Marvel as a movie and Love and Thunder as a D+ show - I wonder how that would’ve gone. Great vid!!
Kenneth made one of the most boring movies ever
@@domingosjunior6805 That's quite the hyperbole you got there!
I agree, I think Kenneth would have handled things in this film so much better than Taika!!!
That's my whole problem with this movie, too many jokes, especially during moment when the tone should be serious, not for the characters to make more jokes. I felt that Thor, Jane and Valkyrie were never any danger during their battles with Gorr and the Shadow Demons.
Gorr was by far my favourite part of the movie and they really ruined it by cutting his scenes short and making him just an afterthought. Jane's story was absolutely tragic, but her illness was also treated badly. It was like the jokes were the core element but not even half of them resonated with me. And I say that as someone who loved the screaming goats.
As you say, so many serious things to explore but Waititi couldn't care less about them (Gorr as a whole, Jane's cancer, New Asgard turning into a tourist spot and the Asgardians having to deal with the loss of their home, their people and their identity, Valkyrie having to deal with the weight of rulership, the indifferent or even cruel gods and how criticsm and resentment is totally valid and finally Thor's character himself). Honestly, at this point I probably would've liked the movie more if it was a spiritual successor of Thor 2 and not Thor 3 and I didn't even like Thor 2 to begin with.
this movie is so puzzling because I've seen cut footage of Zeus that feels like he's from a straight up different movie. How can it simultaneously feel like the director had too much freedom and too little control at once?
Personally I would’ve loved if Thor struggled with the fact that Gorr was mostly right about the Gods’ hubris but instead of allowing Gorrs mass genocide of the gods he decides a different solution.
He goes back to Omnipotent city & after defeating the Olympians he takes control of the place & declares that they will have a more active role in protecting the mortals who worship them.
One of the key problems was that Chris Hemsworth overacted Thor and it would have been fine if we had a serious no nonsense character opposite him to bounce that off like Hulk and Loki in Ragnarok or like Colossus in Deadpool and Cable in Deadpool 2 but here there was no one like that and his humour felt flat because there was no one in front of him looking how ridiculous he sounded...instead we got Jane Foster and Valkyrie who instead of seeming ridiculed or annoyed or confused looked like they were serious about him...the first few minutes of tis movie worked like this when Quill and alien priest looked ridiculed by Thor and the humor worked but later on Valkyrie and Jane bought into everything Thor said not looking ridiculed and the humor did not work
Chris Hemsworth just did what the script told him to do. He's already shown in Thor and Thor:Dark World that he's capable of playing a more serious Thor
8:23 such a missed opportunity for a Tyr pun lol
The hammer- story kind of sets Thor back, since in the third movie he's supposed to accept his powers coming from himself, not his weapons.
There's even a little joke in Endgame, where Thor demands his Axe back from Cap and tosses him the 'little' hammer.
Phase 4 has been a huge let down. Even the half good entries are still forgettable.
Then don’t watch them ?Who’s forcing you to ?Let others watch who want to !
nothing since endgame has been worth watching except maybe far from home, and even that doesn't stack up to what came before. marvel is over as far as im concerned. they should've ended on the incredible high note of endgame and instead its just going to be an increasingly hollow money printer until it eventually peters out
@@troopieeeeee not happening at all !
@@samkj1953 did I asked you ?
I feel like they did Christian Bale dirty. He could of been an epic villain. A Thanos type. He didn’t just steal every single scene, he was the movie.
If they built it up, and we sore the deaths of the other gods. He would of been frightening, however we only sore him kill one god, goat jokes, and thors arse…
He could of been more!
We got 1.5 hours of the 4 hours that were shot. Bale has said he filmed scenes with Jeff Goldblum and Peter Dinklage that didn’t make the final cut. I liked the movie aside from the politics, but I feel like some good stuff probably got cut in editting.
Dude you hit all the points i was thinking of
You said it brother!
You summarized it very well!
Such a letdown this one!! It feels like they filmed it just for the insta reels and the memes, if not even that!
It feels like there’s a great movie waiting to be chiseled out of these two hours. I went into this movie with the feeling that it was gonna be my make-or-break MCU film. This was gonna be the movie that made me stick with the MCU or abandon it. Phase 4 has been quanity over quality for the most part and this movie unfortunately embodies that perfectly. If it just took a break from the humor and actually let the scene play out naturally and organically it would be a great theater experience if nothing else. The makings of a good movie are here, but it’s more like good-adjacent. Honestly, I’m not sure where I am with the MCU now and neither does this movie.
MCU probably don’t care as long as the movie makes a profit but eventually if they don’t pick up the quality their relevance will turn to dust. The movies that got me excited for the MCU were Shang-Chi and Spider-Man everything else felt like there could’ve been more and were kinda a letdown from what I thought the movie would’ve been.
I understood that reference!
these 2 hours were chiseled from an alleged 4.5-hour cut. cut most of the wrong stuff, it seems
This would have also benefitted from being a longer movie, but since Muricaaaans complained about Endgame's screen time (cause apparently they're not able to put a piss-break during movie as many countries do) Disney/Marvel is cutting all of its movies to be no more than 2 hr...and it shows. It' the same issue of MoM, you can see that it needed more space to develop its elements and the overall plot.
Man I felt the same way going in. The movie that would make or break the MCU going forward to me. After almost 14 years of watching every single movie on opening night Im sad to say Thor: L&T will be the last one
I feel like you hit the nail on the head with the huge missed opportunities with this movie. I will say one thing, however... To me it was blatantly obvious that Ragnarok too felt like a movie who viewed plot more like a chore it didn't want to get to, preferring to meander and wallow into tired jokes. Jokes that, admittedly, made me laugh the first go around. But on subsequent rewatches the fact Taika really didn't seem to care about all the "Asgard stuff" became quite apparent. Maybe on the first film, Taika had more oversight. Being the film that leads us right before Infinity War chronologically meant maybe Feige and the producers held tighter reigns on the tone and feel of the film. Something they didn't maybe feel the need to do here. And it shows.
Basically what I'm getting at, is that the first film felt like Taika was allowed in the kitchen but his parents still forced him to put some veggies on his plate.
In Love and Thunder, they left him alone to do diner for one evening, and he had nothing but candies and sweets. Which yeah, might taste kinda good in the moment, but overall are pretty bad for your health and rot your teeth in the end.
I felt the same towards Ragnarok. I enjoyed it the first time I saw it, mostly because I was caught up in the characters themselves/some of the nicer scenes (Odin's death etc). Writing-wise it's not so good and there's too much focus on the jokes. I'm also disappointed that we didn't get that Thor/Loki hug at the end. Love and Thunder took everything that was meh to annoying about Ragnarok and turned it up to 11.
And could cause quite a stomachache.
i remember falling in love with the first thor movie, it had a distinct feel to it, dramatic themes, fleshed out characters and even humour, but never to downplay the emotional power of certain scenes. This is such a deprature it seems to laughs at the gravity of the first film, to mock it and therefore endlessly mock itself.It was in the avengers that they kind of messed up thor for the first time. multiple movies fixed it again, and now after love and thunder, we seem to be back at square one.
wow this is so cool and interesting.
I'm not quite sure what you mean about the post credits scenes
The first one hammers home Gorr is kind of right and sets up the next movie, Zeus wants to put the fear of god(s) back into mortals as a means of petty revenge.
The second shows Gorr isn't entirely right, at least some gods *do* actually give the promised afterlife to their followers, which Gorr's god refused.
Together they show that Gorr's hatred for *all* gods was misplaced, as the gods of the MCU do not exist as a monolith.
Fun fact: SPOILERS
In the comics, Fury tells a few words that turn Thor in unworthy Thor, thus unable to use Mjlonir, said words were: Gorr was right.
what an amazing summary of what the movie lacks and how it was very very disapointing and very much a wasted potential. this is exactly how i felt about the movie i just couldnt express it in words as good as you do
Also, the ice cream store at New Asgard was based on a small, funny comic story where a little boy gets the fully stocked Infinity Gauntlet and is able to use it to create ice cream cones from thin air.
Thanos had lost the Gauntlet and keeps trying to get it back but keeps facing comedic obstacles, he even gets arrested by police at one point.
I didn't care for the joke in the movie either.
Excellent analysis and exactly how I felt leaving the theater. TLAT doubles down on that overtly and overused sarcasm you see in movies like Deadpool 2. Loved Deadpool and Ragnarok but when everything is a joke and nothing's serious anymore, there lacks substance.
Deadpool 2 was still ridiculously good tho. Ridiculous but was still good.
Christian Bail didn't have enough screentime.
But if they give more screentime to Bail there're less space for screaming goat 😱😂
7:54 8:24 I was kinda confused why Gorr chose to kidnap & torment innocent children to punish/ leverage Thor tbh. I would've thought that his daughter's death would make him protective of children & want to punish the gods for failing them.
Instead, he acc seemed to *enjoy* tormenting/ terrifying the kids based off of the scene where he ripped a snake's head off in front of them & laughed as they screamed.
I feel like I’ve entered some weird parallel universe, because most of the criticisms people have concerning „Love and Thunder“ are exactly the ones I had after watching Ragnarok. And back then people told me I was being to harsh, and sometimes even accused me of hating fun. And now where I’ve gone and seen „Love and Thunder“ I actually enjoyed it a lot, but everyone seems to hate it 😄
Reminds me of what Doug Walker said about Spider-Man 3.
I'm really glad that more people are seeing how flawed this movie is as time goes by. After the first weekended It seemed like everyone was raving about it but I've noticed a lot people realizing that this movie is kind of a mess.
"As time goes by" lol it's been one week
@@gamecokben Time definition: the measured or measurable period during which an action, process, or condition exists or continues. Yes, a week is a measure of time. And yes, a week has gone by.
@@goodfellabeats don't try to defend your asinine and ill-fitting use of that colloquial phrase. That is an insignificant amount of time to form the basis of an adequate frame of reference for reevaluating one's opinion of a movie. I think you're just a drama queen who wanted to sound like you had some profound comment to make but instead you just look like an exaggerating child.
NO ONE was/is raving about the movies (other than the normies who think Disney/Marvel can do no wrong.)
I enjoyed the movie, but it just could've been so much better lol
There's also one thing I think is missed from this movie. And thats the question "what did it matter?".
Every other MCU movie is treated as if it were a puzzle piece to a bigger picture. Being moved around like a chess board for a metaphorical "Endgame" (see what I did there).... but what is different at the end of this film that wasn't already there at the beginning? Jane Foster hadn't shown up since Thor 2, so it's not as if death was truly effective.
Now Thor has an surrogate Daughter that is pretty strong i guess
I actually disliked Ragnarok for the corny humor as well. I admit Dark World had issues, but I still liked it more. It doesn't have to be overtly grim for me to like it.
To me, Love and Thunder was even worse.
I swear to god I was 99% sure we was gonna dual wield mjolnir and stormbreaker would’ve loved to see that
The best thing about Thor Love and Thunder is people stopped criticising Multiverse of Madness.
Thank you for putting into words the issues I had with this movie. This is exactly how I felt.
My thoughts - gorr specifically needs heimdalls son to activate the portal, so he steals all the kids because he doesn’t know which kid it is. Thor and co chase after the kids to save them, showing gorr that not all gods are careless. Through Thor going through so many challenges yo save the kids, Gorr starts to have a change of heart.
6:00 Korg having a boyfriend didn't bother me but what did was when he mentioned he had two dads from which he was born from. In the previous movie he made mention of trying to start a rebellion but only his *mum* showed up to the meeting.
There was no mention of his dad(s).
Takiti's humor feels like it's what everyone thinks Whedon's humor is.
Actually it's the opposite
Whedon humor was good in Avengers 1
So why did Thor go with the Guardians again? Seems he could've just started in New Asgard and it wouldn't have made a difference.
They wanted him away from New Asgard to give Valkyrie time to change stuff maybe?
The real reason? Waititi didn’t know and didn’t cere
Real reason: Thor was supposed to be in GotG 3, that's why he went with them after Endgame, however between all that James Gunn was fired and then rehired and the movie got pushed back to after Love and Thunder, when it was supposed to come before.
Waititi didn't know what to do with the GOTG, the good side is that they will have their time to shine next yesr
@@TheCowardRobertFord that would make sense. It’s amazing the MCU hasn’t fallen apart from all the behind the scenes trouble sometimes.
*_Often, the first edit of a movie is much longer, than they trim it down. Love And Thunder was over 4h at first edit. There must be more Gor scenes in those 4h._*
*_The movie didn't feel big, if that makes sense. Reading that it cost $250M and seeing it has a scene with the worst CGI seen in 30 years does not help. I was confused if the floating head was a gag? Also reading the people quit their jobs as "CGI artists" after Thor 4 is not good. I thought it was an inexpensive MCU movie while watching it, but I can't say for sure why? Gunna need a few days to ponder that._*
*_Less Rock-Man scenes and more Gor scenes would have been most welcome, but Gor was not the main villain of the movie, it was (breast?) cancer._*
I think there could’ve been a really great dialogue between Gorr and Thor about how their gods failed them (Thor acknowledges this earlier to the kids about Zeus but would have been much more impactful telling Gorr directly). Then, after admitting failure and seeing Jane’s sacrifice, Thor could admit that he “failed” Jane as well, then proceeding into his “I just want to be with her in the end” moment. That would have given Gorr direct evidence that some gods really do care about and love their people, can feel shame and remorse, and can strive to do better. Only then would Gorr see that he wasn’t entirely correct and realize that he can finally trust a god with what is most precious to him in the world and what he believed another god had taken from him to start the film, his daughter.