HEMA Q&A - What about Modern fencing theory? - Solo Training tips.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
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#TheSwordsmanOfTheDale #HEMA #historicalfencing
Best book about modern fencing IMO:
Understanding Fencing - by Zbigniew Czajkowski
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With regards to modern and medieval soruces, people tend to underestimate just how good we became in the last 150 years at storing and retrieving information in writing. When you start to dissect something like Fiore or I.33, you do start to see those tactics in there, they are just hidden in the plays or stances themselves, and not explicitly separated and conceptualized - and this conceptualization is something we had to figure out over time.
At the time the original treatises were written, the written text was only starting to be used to transfer complex concepts, and a lot of things we take for granted just weren't there. Compare I.33 without chapters or clear separation of what is stance, what is a cut and what is a play to a much better structured Fiore, who has chapters and four masters that correspond to phases of the fight - this is the result of a hundred years of progress in how to write a good fencing treatise. Compare I.33 to things written around 1000 AD, where paragraphs don't exist, and you're lucky to get one comma per page.
It's even clearer in Lichtenauer tradition, because you can look at one system being written down over the years. There's a reason why most used bit of that tradition is Meyer, c1550, with 150 more years of experience in writing fencing books than Fiore.
And in the last 150 years, that information handling exploded as a result of faster communications tech, be it physical travel, phones or digital media. We threw a vast amount of resources at figuring out how to do that even better, mostly for military purposes at first, but other areas also benefitted - like modern fencing theory.
Well said :-)
Love the comparison of the manuscripts as poems - poetic interpretation seems a great analog.
Thank you ;-)
One suggestion and a question for next time:
You could add timestamps in the video description to add chapters (Named after the questions) in the timeline of the video. This way the viewer could easily see, which questions are answered :)
What is your weekly training schedule these days and what do you focus on personally?
All the best, Martin
Thank you! I’m a terrible lazy TH-camr in this kind of sense (namely, using the platform in all its parts XD) I will keep it in mind for the next video
@@FedericoMalagutti Haha, don't worry - your videos are as always appreciated :D If you (and Elisa?) need a place to stay during BBB or any event close to Berlin in the future, we'd be happy to help :D
@@SchildwachePotsdam thank you ;-)
@@SchildwachePotsdam Maybe we'll find a dedicated fan to timestamp his material.
That's a lot of work tho for anyone taking on the endeavor.
I like so much your arming sword videos
Thank you! Happy to read that!
Thanks so much for your detailed response my friend 🙏 Stay safe, hopefully I can meet you in person next year.
Regards Mike
You are welcome!
Great point about the manuscripts being interpreted similarly to poetry, and training moreso as prose.
You noted in your "My Own HEMA" video that you are putting a lot of emphasis on footwork and mobility. What particular movements do you practice? Is it just drilling acresses/decresses, passes, and turns or do you implement other types of movements as well? Are there any big footwork mistakes you see in beginner/intermediate fencers?
Don't you wear shoulders protectors? Personally I've never used them, but I was thinking that a blow to the rotator cuff can cause a very serious damage.
Se ti rispondo in italiano è perché faccio schifo in inglese, chiedo venia. Sono perfettamente d'accordo sul discorso drill e shadow fencing, in quanto la presenza di un obbiettivo fisico crea il giusto feedback, ma restano comunque degli ottimi esercizi anche se appunto solo parte dell'allenamento, in se. Tra l'altro il discorso può tranquillamente allacciarsi all'introduzione del libro di Toran "Introduzione alla tattica schermistica" dove parla di automatismi e movimenti coscienti.
Concordo!
Wohooo! I got featured ;) Thanks for answering my question, it was quite insightful :D
You are welcome!!
Be Careful Federico....modern fencing theory is *NOT* the same across the world, though it may seem to be. I started learning modern fencing in England which follows the French School (to be specific the Camille Prevost line which comes down through Roger Crosnier/Leon Betrand into the current BAF curriculum). When I went to study Eramsus in Italy the fencing pedagogical theory was completely different: Different Guards/Different emphasis, even to some extent different timings. It took me quite a while to untangle my preconceptions. While there are a lot of similarities, after all the are based on smallsword/spadino swordplay, there are subtleties that go down completely different paths. For example the Italian modern pedagogical system today has echoes in it that would help with Italian HEMA rapier systems. They would however not be very good for understanding Donald McBane scottish smallsword, even if initially it would seem so even as a organisational platform. The modern Hungarian system again adopted briefly by the BFA has a different emphasis again. Could you use the modern German Tauber curriculum/system for learning smallsword without ingraining a totally different mentality to the historical french school?
Modern fencing pedagogy isn't some unchanging monolith. It is diverse and constantly changing and some of them are more relevant to HEMA and specific weapons than others.
Thank you for your clarification, I was partially aware of what you said. In the video I was oversimplifying. I will answer in the next video anyway ;-)
@@FedericoMalagutti Eh I wouldn't worry about it... But when 'invitation' in England does not mean 'invito' in in Italy, which is again subtly different from an 'invitation' in the Hungarian system, and then I find that a Slovakian fencer in my club has a totally different idea by what he means by an invitation, then when I try and bolt any one of these systems unto say historical smallsword (McBane for example learnt in Scotland, then french system in Ireland and he perfected in Holland.... argghhhhh!!!!) you soon realise that using any 'x' modern pedagogy organisation is approximate at best and I think people doing HEMA should be aware of this Anyways keep up the good work.
@@FedericoMalagutti Ciao, puoi consigliarmi quali libri leggere, sulle tattiche di MOF? Grazie!
(Ho già Undestanding Fencing)
@@pinionizzimo come libri in Italiano ti consiglio tutti quelli dei Maestri Antonio ed Enrico di Ciolo e i libri del Maestro Giancarlo Toran tra cui “Introduzione alla tattica schermistica”
@@FedericoMalagutti grazie mille!
What languages are most modern translations of HEMA manuscripts written in? Is it English? What are the most common languages?
If the previous question is true...Are there any non English translations that you believe presents the material better?
Great stuff! Do you test cut?
Have you created any partner exercises for Fiore practice? The manuscript give us conceptual ideas and techniques but not any sequential plays to work with as opposed to the german ones.
Interesting, can you expand the concept a bit more, mainly on what the germans have that Fiore doesn't. Do you mean the flowchart-like way in which some Liechtenauer manuals seems to be structured?
@@FedericoMalagutti well, in my opinion the plays presented in the german manuals are exercises. You stand like that and your opponent (partner) stands like this and then he does that and you do this :P . Fiore's text and illustrations give you an idea like, if your swords cross like this then an option is to do that. It is up to us to create appropriate exercises and practice Fiore's ideas.
@@Thelamtab I will answer in the video ;-)
When do you launch an attack while fighting? Example Do you watch for your opponent to shift her weight backwards? Or move there hands?
This video is really good to explain good times to strike. Even though it's focused on sidesword/rapier it applies to really any weapon: th-cam.com/video/QhnEJ025Duo/w-d-xo.html
TLDR:
From a parry: This is called a riposte. Whenever you have a successful parry if you strike immediately after this is a time to attack.
During an opponent missing a strike: This is in the FGC called a “whiff punish”. When an opponent misses their attack we can punish that strike with our own.
Non-threatening strike: When the opponent throws out a strike, but it does not threaten your position.
When opponent is winding up to attack: When an opponent is winding up their body to strike. In a fighting game this would be hitting the opponent during their starting animation. In reality, this can be any habitual tell of their body that indicates they’re about to attack. Most easy indicator is an arm or hand movement, but can be a movement from the shoulder, foot, or even eye movement.
During a stance change: When the opponent is changing guards/stance/posta. This is because when a person makes a movement they must generally finish before they can act again. Additionally, this extends to the natural footwork/movements that we HAVE to make such as stepping and balance.
Mistake in measure: When an opponent overextends or underestimates the distance between you and them you can use that to strike safely, though you should be preeminent and explosive in order to strike safely. In fighting games, this is called spacing and zoning.
The end of the video discusses that you MUST practice being comfrotable /just/ outside your opponent's space and threatening zone. The more space you give the opponent the more time you give for your own strikes to be counters, but it also means that you have actually less moments to strike in tempo. I'd also like to add that you may be giving yourself positional disadvantage. Good Footsie players are incredibly good at striking at the right moment and in tempo.
@@jumpdashslashblock5345 I just was about to say "Dall'Agotccha!"
what is your political views?
y u so secsi and why is carbonara better with cream and onion?
Because without cream and onion isn’t real carbonara!!!
whos that one salty weeb that disliked?
Sport fencing: 2 scared ballerinas in G string suit ( like Borat yeeees) worn over their pants and playing fly fishing with metal noodle and pushing light switches......
Thats not the Noble Art.......
Even Kendo is closer to kenjutsu , with all its limitations....
lol!!!Anyway, I fenced modern fencers in my life. Believe me that they are far more than this ;-)