The SECRET Scale in the Hades Soundtrack
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- Patreon: / cadencehiramusictheory
Mixolydian b9#9#13? Set 8-26? Mode 5 of composite minor? Steve? Let's take a look at this cool scale and learn some interesting things about scales in general. MUSIC THEORY.
Tunes used:
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Bandcamp: cadencehira.bandcamp.com
Soundcloud: / cadence-hira
the editing of the Hades logo into STEVE is deeply hilarious to me
big same
Why don't we call Steve the Stygian scale?
love it!
Smart lad
actually this goes so hard
YOOOO STYGIAN SCALE
Stygian Dominant really does sound like Hades himself.
"composite phrygian" she discovered metal everyone
"Composite Phrygian" makes the most sense to me. It's based in Phrygian, but with that added natural 3 akin to the natural 7 in harmonic minor. Because the two types of 3's are always spaced apart, it feels more like Phrygian-with-accidentals and less like some kind of octatonic scale (imo). And if you follow the melody, the fact that it outlines a minor mode at first---and only adds the natural 3 in the last measure---lends to it being primarily Phrygian but frequently blending into Phrygian Dominant.
Of course, we all know that "Steve" is the real name of the scale. Great video as always. :3
Composite is not an unjust word for that by any means-personally, I just notate this common treatment as Phrygian ♮/♭3, eschewing the word "dominant" in that case. You get a similar thing in Classic/Blues-Rock a lot where like I, bIII, IV and V are major in a minor pentatonic deal. Of course it can all be explained as a specific use of modal mixture, but it's a frequent one.
Me too. Thanatos has such beautiful eyes.
A different way of thinking about it-- rather than listing every note that gets played and trying to find a scale that includes them all, instead think of it like each triad built on each scale degree has its own quality. In other words, let's say we're looking at a C phrygian scale, except those notes in the scale only make up the roots of each chord and each chord has its own quality. So in the No Escape example you could assign the I chord a major quality (aside from bar 17), the bII a major quality, the bIII a major quality, the IV a minor quality, etc. Basically you'll only ever use E natural as a major third to the C chord and never as the root of a chord, which would be built on Eb instead. Bar four would be a bIII-bII-I progression, each major quality. It's historically a Spanish style of composition (see flamenco mode) but is also used a lot in heavier styles of rock. I probably explained this really poorly but it's a really fun style of composition!
I really like this! I think the flamenco mode style of harmonizing chords makes a lot of sense for many of the tunes in the soundtrack for sure. Sometimes in Hades there are interchangeably Imin and Imaj as you have pointed out and also full sections without traditional harmony (usually unison with the bass/melody) that I feel it's more comprehensive to think about it like a scale we're drawing from vs. harmonized scale tones, but otherwise this works really well!
I feel like it's much easier to explain what's going on in the music of Hades using a modal theory mindset rather than a harmonic one. It reminds me so much of what happens in Romanian, (and Turkish and Arabic music all the time,) where the feeling of the music isn't really dependent on the underlying chord but more on the particular mode of the melody, and the way you modulate is by using lines that have notes in common with the mode you want to modulate to: for example, if you want to modulate from minor to phrygian, you could go:
(all in relation to the root) root - major second - minor third - perfect fourth - root - minor third - major second - minor third - minor second - minor third - perfect fourth
In this case, the minor second isn't really meant to feel natural to the minor sound we started with and that is what is creating tension, like a dominant chord in Western music theory, and the characteristic movement of the mode ( in this case, following the scale up to the fourth) is what creates stability again.
so analysing this line as all one scale feels a bit odd to me. To me, the "No Escape" song feels the same way, where it shifts between different modalities, and its "scale" doesn't feel like it's a singular one - maybe that's just Mediterranean bias from me xD
ps. I will add that from an Eastern Mediterranean perspective, it does feel like it's a little lacking in "ornamentation", like there could easily be a lot of runs between the larger intervals which could add flavour, but hey, it also has to sound metal.
pps. I am not Mediterranean myself, but I have played a lot of Mediterranean music since I was very young because my clarinet instructor found that that was the only kind of music that could keep my fleeting attention for any length of time.
I agree. I thought partway through the video with all the Western scale-theory she had to go through to try and justify the music was the incorrect approach to analysis Especially trying to combine entire lines of music into one scale. So many types of music don't operate on a scalar, key-based level like this, and like you say, are more modal or harmonic based. Or even based more just on tension tones and resolution (folk musics). I was left unconvinced by her analysis. I would start this analysis looking at tradition folk musics that come from the Meditteranean area.
As another comment said, this is called Spanish Phrygian on Ian Ring's website. The website also calls it "Altered Dominant A".
Hey, about that scale
I'm a musician from the south of spain, and I can tell you it's typical from here. It's not used as one scale, but two in different directions. It's the later two Phrygian scales, major for going up and creating tension, minor for resolving and going down. Look up Andalusian Cadence. Anyways great video! Super funny, the begining got me laughing (it's too real than is too cute)
Oh also an example: Las bodas de Luis Alonso, the beginning baseline is the most evident version
I think you would have fun examining Ratboy Genius's music.
The guy has a PHD in Music, and along with his surreal animations, he expresses his beautiful mind through music.
Specifically, The Red Planet, Flood, and Starship Genius.
He made all the background music for the video series, and it contrasts with the animation so much, it's bizarre in a delightful way.
Steve.
You're the only youtuber I genuinely watch at every upload. Keep going, love you~
According to Ian Ring the first one is the "Spanish Phrygian" scale, a bit less of a mouthful
Knowing about Ian Ring is a game changer.
I love that site but only like 0.5% of musicians know about it.
Isn't Spanish Phrygian just an alternate name for Phrygian Dominant?
@@gameraven13No, because Spanish Phrygian lets you use (for example) E major, F major and G major all in one scale with E as the tonic.
@@NickHoad but Spanish Phrygian is just Phrygian Dominant. The same way that Major is technically Ionian and Minor is technically Aeolian. Spanish Phrygian is just a name for Phrygian Dominant. C Spanish Phrygian doesn’t magically just have E flat AND E natural.
your videos are so good, i have no background in music but still find myself learning and picking up new vocabulary from your videos
The depths you go to explain your content is so inspiring and helpful. Thank you for existing.
Yo, is that Tunic on the horizon? Tunic music analysis incoming?!? Don't know if that or Hades 2's music got me more excited, can't wait!
I will play Tunic and let you know!
This channel is unreal. You explain quickly and concisely! Also Thanatos.
Kinda resembles the andalusian scale used in flamenco, without the #7.
I've always loved the sound of scales like Phrigian Dominant, Harmonic Minor & Mixolydian b6. Whatever this Steve scale is, I really love it for a similar melodic feel. I knew I loved Hades ost but now you've taught me how & why. Thank you! Mediterranean Halloween Prog is my jam! 😂
From henceforth, any future occurrences of this scales shall be "STEVE"
Thank you for introducing me to Steve ! i love your videos =)
thank you for making this video!! there aren't enough theory vids of hades music outside the vocal songs.
I really love the way No Escape keeps going between pushed and not pushed beats on the melody while keeping the rhythm straight the whole time, gives it a kind of polymetric feel without actually using polymeter (I think?)
How about a video on the time signature in this game's ost?
Almost certainly will talk about it in the Hades 2 video! (eventually)
Flamenco does a hybrid Phrygian major like this
Ooooh that back log is interesting, especially Animal Well!
i’m so proud of you for coming out as bisexual during pride month, as everyone knows all hades players are
Klezmer occasionally messes around with Phrygian like this. It will have tuned in dominant Phrygian but borrow the b3, #7, and (most commonly) #6 depending on what chord is being played. b3 is played when on a bIII chord (the #3 is never the root), #7 is used as a passing note or an appoggiatura over the iv chord, and #6 is used as a passing note over the bvii chord. I think I’ve seen b5 used similarly.
And, of course, it doesn’t just use dominant Phrygian like this but that’s the easy one since it’s the most stereotypical sound.
As a big fan of phrygian, especially phrygian dominant, I would definitely say that a blend of the two is the best way to describe it. Phrygian is often used for that sorta ancient/exotic vibe. While Harmonic Minor is typically the "ancient Egypt" scale, Phrygian/Phrygian Dominant though also feeling very desert-y, also lend themselves to various Mediterranean sounds. Ancient Greece and that Spanish flamenco sound can both be derived from Phrygian.
Regardless of what it is, Darren Korb does a fantastic job.
4:10 Is that... Garfunkel and Oates?
I’ve definitely used Steve plenty of times but always just thought of it as a mode of composite minor as you put it. Steve is an objectively funny name but I think composite Phrygian is a more descriptive name and I’ll probably use that moving forward haha
Hi Cadence! I have a thought: Darren, being a guitarist, would have proclivities towards the use of blues. Guitar music, even non-blues music, like metal, uses different blues scales often. Blues scales, depending where you're listening to, can be as simple as hexatonic scales, to heptatonic scales, to octatonic scales, and even enneatonic scales (such as with clapton, squire, and slash's solo-playing styles). Definitely, I agree with you that "home" is C, and so a majority of it is minor, but blues isn't really major or minor, because blues inherently uses both, and sometimes even the wolf 3rd (the microtone in the middle of the m3 and the M3). The main thing of blues to establish, then, would be the tonic, and the thirds. From there, most everything else is up for grabs, although that b7 is fairly en vogue towards blues. Blues can regularly even involve the P4, TT, AND P5. We hear a ton of these blues scales in metalcore, from anything like norma jean all the way to periphery. As far as the 2nds and 6ths, those are really just color stuffs, with the b2 going along with 8-bit's view of phrygian being threatening. The b6 keeps the levity of dorian from being considered-I mean, Zag dies and falls back to the bottom of hell, so the lowered intervals just guide ya downwards.
Does all of this feel reasonable?
EDIT: as a counterthought, I remembered that Darren also used some greek instruments during the writing/recording of the soundtrack, just to flavor it up, and it might also involve some concepts from greek harmoniai, cooked in with his own background. He definitely didn't write like this in Pyre, Transistor, or Bastion
This looks like a mode of the sixth dimished scale. The sixth diminished is a major scale with an added b6 and is common in jazz because:
1. It's octatonic, making runs in 4/4 symmetrical
2. It can be though of as the six chord starting on the tonic and the fully diminished 7 starting on the 2. This makes melodic lines constructed out of chords really straightforward.
The first scale in this video for example, "C Steve," is the Ab sixth diminished scale starting on the 3rd note. The technical name for the scale might be something like "Phrygian sixth diminished" but frankly that's not much more informative than just calling it Steve.
steve
I wonder if the composer started off with figuring out this "death motif" and from there started exploring how it could be expanded into full pieces of music.
Protips_unsolicited.jpg
0:52 The harmony as it unfolds in m.10 turns out to just be Bb5 or Bb5(add9), but here with a tonic pedal.
0:57 Them’s powah chords; and would be worth noting as the C5 and Ab by themselves don’t outline the progression, and those are big/hefty parts of it-just Eb5, Db5, E5 and back to C5 syncopated early.
1:08 Similarly 5s: rooted with the melody.
1:24 This time - m.14, the Bb5 is expanded or dug into as Bb5(add9) and F5 following the melody’s lead; doing away with the pedaled Tonic.
The preferability of this is that the current, sparse version, although giving a vague sense is not _particularly_ informative, though it may be preferable for audience palatability so I don’t know, but certainly the footnote is incorrect; being straightforwardly analyzable-though with intricate variations-but that is its development! Certainly I would like to see a Bb mentioned somehow on the second bars of each system. The fourth bars also represent an analytical AWOL: So broadly, *C5, Bb5/C or Bb59, Ab, and melodic power chords* for those systems of 4. [Bold to be read as shouting.]
(+ Bb5/C and Bb5(add9) may alternatively be notated Bbsus2/C and Bbsus2.
-a discretional point.)
You don't have to do any of that for a decent popcorn time though, which is enough for most people, this being TH-cam.
noo i was expecting the outro music to be in steve scale
i love steve
This would be much easier to wrap one's head around if it's simply explained that not all notes of a piece can be put in a blender to determine what "the scale" of the piece is - it's simply alternating between different interval options depending on the context, but usually, two different types of each interval are never playing together at the same time, since it's mostly monophonic. Therefore, I do not believe Steve is a true Octatonic scale, but a split personality Hectatonic.
If I play C-E-F#-G, then a G-F-E-C phrase all over C, I'm not playing a scale with "C-E-F-F#-G" necessarily - I'm most likely alternating between C Lydian and C Ionian. When you don't need to worry about chordal harmony too much, but just playing modally over some root note, it's quite easy to play like this.
You're not playing the Major and Minor Sixth's at the same time, or both 7ths at the same time, or both 4ths, or whatever - only either the major and minor version of each interval, at different times. Of course, the thirds are sometimes an exception...if we classify Hades as "Mediterranean Blues".
In regards to the main theme, I don't necessarily agree with the analysis that it's in an octatonic scale. It might be more accurate to say that it modulates between Phrygian and Phrygian dominant. Or you could say, perhaps, that it's just in Phrygian, but that it "borrows" the major third from Phryg dominant.
Have you done an analyse on the Soul Edge sound track?
Since it's an octatonic scale, and it's used for a game set in the underworld, maybe an alternative name for Steve could be the O'chthonic Scale? :D
A new scale just dropped and it already beat the ender dragon
It should be called the Hadean scale!
Considering the 7 modes have Greek names.
Fits like bread and butter.
Mixb9#9b13 is actually a pretty common scale in jazz.
So when the next game comes out we might get the mystical Steve 2??
Maybe if you try to look to the scale from different perspectives rather than the western music theory perspective Bcuz this scale is used a lot in eastern regions a lot
Out of Tatarus reminds me a bit of Dream Theater's Home
It could just be C Moorish Phrygian where F and and Fb alternate.
Is the usage of the word 'obfuscatory' obfuscatory?
good video but the naruto music at the end is all i'm going to think about now
You should make a twitch
This is set theory slander
Thank the gods darren korb is getting the recognition he deserves
Edit - can we call this the zagrean scale? lol
+
To me, this game's soundtrack is a wonderful example of how choosing to not strictly adhere to theory expectations makes the music better. Not saying theory is useless, but letting it dictate the writing creates a very expected sound, and I like the weird deviations that aren't expected.
I think it's a pretty conscious deviation, which is still applying theory.
Don't forget that music theory isn't an instruction an how to write music, but rather an investigation on how music is having the effect that it does.
_secret_
oh nice its u lol the thumbnail made me think it was 8-bit music theory or smthn lmao
i think you're making a mistake trying to classify this as a scale at all. it might be better analyzed by looking at it as more of a gestural thing.
Hades 1 is awesome.
But what even happened to its sequel?
Grab a game known for its speed, add delay to the dash, slow the normal attacks and then make most attacks charge attacks.
It's like DmC6 having Skyrim-speed combat.
They changed up a lot of the base movement, but there's a lot of upgrades that feel intuitive at least
set theory sucks!!!!
How can someone with such a trash soundcloud think they can give any relevant analysis 😂 I guess those who can’t DO, “teach”?