I agree with how you do things, that clicking and tapping stands out if you’re not in tune to your motors as you are. Keep making them purr. Thanks again.
Hope it's not too late Mike to Subscribe, been watching all your projects and learned something new each time. Watching it done is more complete in learning how, than reading over the instructions. No mistakes now. Thanks for all the programs.
Thank you sir for this amazing block of instruction. Some folks say you talk too slowly but I rewind over and over again to get it RIGHT. Your videos are invaluable to a novice like myself. I’m a Union Pipefitter that doesn’t have the gift of knowledge and experience that you’ve imparted to Shovelhead owners who are rebuilding their machines for the first time! Thanks and blessings Pacific Mike!!! Please please please keep ‘em coming brother!
Thank You. I'm really glad to help where I can. I'd love to know some of the things you do in your trade. Also, if I speak too slowly, please remember TH-cam goes all over the world. English is a second language for a lot of people. I try to make it easy. Sometimes, I have to figure out what's next. Anyway, I'm just an old wrench. What did you "spect?
Use to use the Harley manual as the bible on my shovel and pan. Them old bikes never came close to the tolerances they have now. Great vid again Mike!!!
Great information keep up the great work. You are the kind of teacher I would want to have if I was going to school to learn how to do this. Thanks again.
Howdy Mike, Thanks for this instructional You-Tube VIDEO I especially liked the suggestion of the skinny / thin WASHERS coated with ULTRA-GRAY Also the White Lithium Grease for the "O"-Ring on the other end COOP .............................
And if one side of those counter sunk spacer/bushing has too much clearance then you can flip it over and countersink the other side.I prefer using lifter tube quad o-ring seals on the plug end of the rocker shafts. There's 4 sealing areas instead of 2.
Thanks Mike for sharing your years of knowledge. These vids are supper valuable to me and I'm sure to many others.easy to understand and follow along.VERY thorough..I have a 77 and want it to run as good as yours.THANKS AGIN FOR SPREADING THE WEALTH....
Mike - per your suggestion, I machined all of the shafts for the S&S roller rockers installed on my '51 Pan-Shovel to net .008” end play. I settled on 15 ft. lbs. on the nuts for a torque value that maintains that spec while keeping them from vibrating loose (1,000 miles since the valve job and no leaks). The valve train sounds very happy purring along at 65 mph (4-speed with 25-tooth sprocket). Thanks for another confidence-inspiring video!
Thank you Mike, I got the shovel going first time this year and two days later we have five inches of snow. I hope it's warming up in California. Next week possible mid to upper 50's with showers. Were headed in the right direction. As always I enjoyed your video and keep the rubber side down.
Good morning Mr Pacific! Splendid day here in Boston and I will be getting out on Scarlett, my Night Train. Great tutorial and nothing wrong with consistent tolerances and controlling the noise levels. It's always a hoot to see a first time Harley buyer who has been riding metrics their whole life, "something is wrong with my engine, it's ticking" lmao I've seen people go to all sorts of length's trying to have a silent Harley. IMHO, if a Harley isn't ticking and making noises, I'd be concerned. Take care of yourself Mike, hope all is well.
I am a senior citizen myself.. I hope that your videos will be available for generations to come. I'm guessing that after WWIII , the first thing that will be rebuilt is a Shovelhead.
Yep. It takes out the slop and is still safe from seizing. Thank You. When I started on Shovelheads, they were the newest Big Twin Harley had made. We tries shims, wave washers, and learned the err of our ways (the hard way).
Torque rocker arm shaft locknut to 12 - 18 ft-lbs per the 1978 1/2 to 1984 service manual. The 70 - 77 manual (page 1-2B) specifies 15 ft-lbs for 'rocker arm housing nut' and contains a table for other hardware based on diameter and grade designation. I torque to 12 - 18 ft-lbs and use a SMALL amount of plumber's putty around the nut, which has been pretty effective for preventing weeping when driving across S. Dakota on I-90.
Mike, again superb vid onn rocker shafts, ive been adjustin my pushrods fo yrs but as you said.....its the end float in rocker shatfs that make the noise....
When forces are asked to change motion, in difference to whence they did come, they will take up the easiest option, all things being equal . . . & sum. For rather than shoving yon spring down, by using smooth elbows quite well, your rocker becometh slide hammer, & hurtles off sideways pell-mell. Given room it will pick up inertia, it happens when iron can fly, & it's violent thud on arrival, will be aural mud in your eye. So leave it scant room for maneuver, yet freedom to swivel when hot, & pre-stress the shaft with good tension, it carries the load quite a lot. ('Bong' - noon in Sherwood, dull leaden sky, need more tea & a toasted teacake. Y'all : )
One item for consideration. I have heard many times; 'rocker arms get tigher when the engine is warm.' Not so. Aluminum boxes and the cast rockers expand at different rates. They actually get looser as the engine warms. To confirm this I placed my freshly shimmed boxes in the freezer over night and the clearances got tighter. i then placed thenm in the oven at 200 degrees. They got loser. The same applies to cam gear to idler gears tolerances. Tighter when cold 'slight whine' and looser when warm. I believe you can find the cam info on the Andrews web site.
Andrews has great directions. However, I disagree with you on rocker arm endplay. The aluminum swells and the rocker arms can seize if they are not given enough clearance. I've seen it repeatedly on Shovelheads. I never use shims on Shovelhead rocker arms. I've seen them disintegrate a bunch of times.
@@pacificmike9501 Mike, Thanks for your reply. The expansion of aluminum creates looser tolerance as the engine warms bc the rocker arm does not expand to the same extent as the aluminum box above it (which is pushing the openings at the ends of the rockers farther apart). This is easy to demonstrate by measuring end play then heating the rocker box as I described and remeasuring. I hope you try it. If you get a different result, I’d like to hear about it. This may seem counter-intuitive, but if you consider that the entire rocker box is getting longer (not just ends in contact with the rocker arms), and the length of aluminum On the top of the box is much greater than the length of aluminum at the ends of the rocker, it is easier to visualize. In my opinion, the best tolerance is .004 to .010 inch (don’t go tighter). That gap will increase as the engine warms. I bought my ’79 new off the showroom floor. While under warranty I had three exhaust valves seize in their steel guides bc Harley did not anticipate the loss of lubrication from low-lead fuel (I replaced with bronze guides and later cast iron). I have had the valves recede into the seats, also due to HD not designing for low-lead fuel (replaced with hardened seats). I have had the much maligned German cam bearing fail (which the folks at Andrews cautioned about) causing engine damage. But I have never had a rocker arm disintegrate and the rocker shaft bushings are in tolerance (they are currently sitting in my garage awaiting reassembly). That’s 120,000 miles without a rocker arm failure. The most likely reason for failure would be lack of lubrication (too high viscosity oil, not covering the oil cooler in lower temps, too low idle speed, etc.). Oil line blockage and other oddities are possible. On the advice of a local machinist known for racing builds I have run synthetic multi-grade oil (which many people insist shouldn’t be done) since ’81. I keep my idle at 900 rpm per manufacturer recommendation. LA to DC, Key West to Canada and many points in between. Again, no rocker arm failures. Just saying.
I was wondering what holds the shaft from rotating in the entry end. Tried to see if it has an indexing spline. Thought it might be a taper fit, based on your tapping it out with the fitted punch. Then I saw you install the cap and o-ring to secure it enough to cinch down the cap nut. Am I even in the ballpark? Guessing that you do so many of those that you can probably get very close before using the feeler gauges.
Love your style and transfer of knowledge. Would it be to much to ask for a running video to demonstrate end play noise vs lifter noise. I believe I am experiencing this end play issue on my m8.
First, Mike, let me say I love your videos, no BS, no Muzac, just the facts, man. 2) I'm in the middle of reviving my 90" 5- speed '68 Shovelhead I've had since the early 1970s. and wish I had this insight int to rocker end play a year ago while the engine was out of the frame. Oh, well, so be it.... 3) I like the way you go about establishing end play, but what about shims, or the spacer with the preloading wave washer? Are those methods failure prone? 4) and lastly, I have subscribed, and clicked on the bell, but still do not get notified when new videos are posted. What's up with that? Any way, Ride hard, & long.... ....RooDog....
1. Thank You. 2. I improve things every time she's apart. You'll get around to it. 3. I don't criticize other people's methods, but I have seen those things come apart in motors. 4. I don't know why that "notification bell" is letting us down. That is a pain. Enjoy that hot rod bike. Sounds like fun to me.
@@pacificmike9501 Up and running, I love the power from this little 90 incher. And the 5-speed Sputhe conversion, is one of the most noticeably improvement ever made to this scooter in the over 50 years in my possession.....RooDog....
We're trying to get caught up on everything else. I want my Shovel back on the road. The Pan is up and running. I'm trying to take care of things I've promised. We'll be back on the Flathead soon.
Hey Mike, love your videos. If there is a loose rocker, can the ticking come and go? I recently picked up a 78 shovel and I am getting a ticking sort of a sound that comes and goes. Having a hard time tracing it down. I have checked and double checked my hydraulic pushrods, I even checked my primary chain play. Added a thin plate to the M6. Oh, and yes, I subscribed....
Thank You. If it comes and goes, it is most likely a hydraulic valve lifter. The most suspect is usually the front exhaust lifter since it receives its oil last. It could be a little dirty or it may just be starving for oil. If so, a couple of oil changes could be all you need. Perhaps cleaning a lifter or two might help. The fact that it is not constant suggests what I just said. Be very careful to follow instructions on those operations. Remember to let lifters bleed down after adjusting them and not turn the motor over until they have. Be sure you never mix lifter parts between lifters.
Is the ID of the spacer counterbore critical, or is "just make sure it's bigger than the shaft shoulder OD plus a bit of clearance" good enough? I'm guessing the depth of the counterbore is the critical dimension, but "smaller than the rocker end but bigger than the shoulder" is the ID spec, lol
@@pacificmike9501 so would it be practical to measure endplay with the "raw" spacer (say 0.030), chuck the spacer in a lathe, and just bore it "touch off plus 0.021" to get the 0.009 Mike's ideal?
You have a variety of things to allow for. It's actually a "trial and error" situation. Using a stock brand new spacer from one supplier, rocker arms from another supplier, rocker shafts from another, and the depth of the location of the bushings in the rocker arms. Then there are the differences in the cast rocker boxes. But, any method you use to get there is just fine. I was showing a real "back yard" method.
6 point box end wrenches are designed to stay off the edges these days and seem to be a loose fit. They only contact the flat. Gearwrench is one maker. Criticized for that loose fit. I can't think of any place on my bikes i need a 12 point.
I use quite a few 12points. Lifter blocks, head bolts, Exhaust nuts. Sometimes, they give you more room that you need. But thanks for the clue on fitment.
Mike, I have a flathead 45 piston ring question. What is the correct location of the ring gap when inside the cylinder bore? The 45 has 2 compression rings and the bottom oil control ring. I thought the compression rings are opposed at 3 and 9 o’clock. ( I’m not really sure) and definitely unsure about the oil ring. Thanks Mike!!!!
It doesn't say anywhere in the 45 service manual. I've always just set them all 120 degrees apart (staggered). Probably don't point the top ring gap at the exhaust valve.
Hey Mike, I’ve recently been taking apart my 1980 Shovelhead engine to replace gaskets and all the hardware, this is my first time doing this so I’m learning a lot along the way. I’m trying to remove the rocker arm and when I go to remove the end hex bolt like you did in the beginning of the video, but the nut just spins and the shaft also spins with it. How could I go about removing the nut so I can remove the shaft. Thanks
Yeah you're 8 ~ 10 thousands sounds much better then 25 thousands when I heard you say 25 thousands I was like wow that's a lot of play. Back in the early seventies I worked in a numbering machine factory they made various number Wheels you'd be interested, Jack Daniels is a 1200 series. The e13b that's what is on the bottom of checks. My mom was one of the engravers
Hi Mike, it appears you don't use shims to get the right end play on the rocker arm shafts. You adjust the end play by countersinking the bushing in a drill press. Hence the trial and error. Have I got it?
Are you sure it's a rocker? I'm having to make assumptions here. I'm assuming you have a Shovelhead. Am I to assume you are running hydraulic lifters? If so, could it be a dirty hydraulic lifter? Gotta tell me more stuff.
Hi mike so im rebuilding my 76 shovel rocker boxes, I got new shafts and had the rocker arms cleaned up. when I went to put them back together I tightened them down one had .016 endplay, one had .006 endplay and two had no end play at all and they stop rocking at minimum tightness. I called my local shop and they said to sand down the rocker arms to get the endplay, is that something common to do? do you have any experience with no endplay in a rockerbox? I also got new spacers cause I thought the used may be worn or something but the problem persists with the new ones. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I use new and old spacers to get the endplay I want. You can sand any of it you want. The spacer, if it has no countersink in its hole, will give you more endplay. We showed this on our video. Take it slow. Make sure you don't throw the pad on the rocker arm off center, at which point it will no longer hit the valve stem properly.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you, do you think it would ve better to sand the spacer and leave the rocker arms alone? the spacer are much cheaper to replace if i mess up and seem easier to sand evenly.
hey mike, what is the "spacer washer" No. 34 on page 3-16 in the service manual? can't find it on my 84 Shovelhead. Do you have a part-number of the washer?
I don't have an 84 service manual here at the moment. Is this a cylinder head part with the rocker arms. I'm sure I can find it. Look at the picture and tell me where it goes.
@@pacificmike9501 it belongs to the rocker arm shaft. in the manual there is an exploded view of the rocker box. Between the rocker arm shaft screw and the o-ring is shown this "spacer washer". the book says "Spacer washer (1981 and later). Thanks for your help.
Okay. I got it! We're both pretty funny. My parts book (41-84) is out in the garage and I'll go look at it in the morning. But, I remember! Harley started using "quad seals" in place of their usual "O-Rings." 66-80 Shovelheads used an 0-ring to seal between the shaft and the screw (cap), which is located on the right side of the rocker box. However, they used a "quad seal" on the 81-later bikes. Here's where it gets fun:
Sorry, got cut off. The parts book shows both the o-ring and the quad seal. The pushrod top o-ring seal and the rocker shaft o-ring are the same part. On 81-up, the quad seal for the rocker shaft and the pushrod top quad seal are the same part. You can use either one, but not both. Just an HD funny. I had to figure that one out back in the eighties.
Hey Mike thanks for replying, the little counter sunk cap bolts on the right side of the rocker box I can't get the very front one to seal with the O ring, should I just use some lithium grease and maybe a squish washer? Yeah 1974 shovelhead thanks mate ! Or how much torque can you put on them bolts.
@@pacificmike9501 My Shovel is mostly after market parts also, except for the numbers matching frame and engine... My old girl is a RUNNER, not a trailer queen to just sit and look at... Thanx for all the great info Mike, I re-watch your videos all the time while working on my '76 FLH runner... : )
That's getting a little too close for me. Remember, when the aluminum rocker box gets hot, it swells, both in and out. Can make those things get a little tight in there. But, if it works for you, cool.
Any day that Mike uploads a video, is a good day.
Thank You
Agreed
You got that one right
Tommy Chong working on a shovelhead....absolutely awesome man!!!
Love your tips and tricks brother. 👍
I wish I had half of your knowledge
And I wish I had more. It goes on forever. Thank You
Always love stopping by the garage have a blessed week my friend.
Thanks, you too!
I just recently purchased my first Shovelhead, and I am very happy to have found your Channel. Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Awesome! Thank you!
Pacific Mike helps me to understand mine too, even if I'm not going to do all of that... :) it's nice to 'get it on ya!'
I agree with how you do things, that clicking and tapping stands out if you’re not in tune to your motors as you are. Keep making them purr. Thanks again.
Thanks, will do!
Hope it's not too late Mike to Subscribe, been watching all your projects and learned something new each time. Watching it done is more complete in learning how, than reading over the instructions. No mistakes now.
Thanks for all the programs.
Thank You. Never too late to subscribe. The best is to learn as much as possible. Use the book too.
A total gift to anybody wanting to learn about working on your own bike. Thanks, Mike!
Glad to help!
Thanks for this video! It's been a while since I checked mine. Keep in the wind!
Thanks, you too!
Thank you sir for this amazing block of instruction. Some folks say you talk too slowly but I rewind over and over again to get it RIGHT.
Your videos are invaluable to a novice like myself. I’m a Union Pipefitter that doesn’t have the gift of knowledge and experience that you’ve imparted to Shovelhead owners who are rebuilding their machines for the first time! Thanks and blessings Pacific Mike!!! Please please please keep ‘em coming brother!
Thank You. I'm really glad to help where I can. I'd love to know some of the things you do in your trade. Also, if I speak too slowly, please remember TH-cam goes all over the world. English is a second language for a lot of people. I try to make it easy. Sometimes, I have to figure out what's next. Anyway, I'm just an old wrench. What did you "spect?
👍🙂
Use to use the Harley manual as the bible on my shovel and pan. Them old bikes never came close to the tolerances they have now. Great vid again Mike!!!
Thank You
Thanks for sharing Mike, looking forward 👌😃
Thank You. More to come.
Another great Knowledgeable video Mike. looking forward the next one have a good day.
Thanks, you too!
Great information keep up the great work. You are the kind of teacher I would want to have if I was going to school to learn how to do this. Thanks again.
Wow, thanks!
Howdy Mike,
Thanks for this instructional You-Tube VIDEO
I especially liked the suggestion of the skinny / thin WASHERS coated with ULTRA-GRAY
Also the White Lithium Grease for the "O"-Ring on the other end
COOP
.............................
Cool, thanks
Thanks Mike I've been checking every day for this video, no disappointments here
Thank You
And if one side of those counter sunk spacer/bushing has too much clearance then you can flip it over and countersink the other side.I prefer using lifter tube quad o-ring seals on the plug end of the rocker shafts. There's 4 sealing areas instead of 2.
Good point.
We need old school mechanics like you here in Germany great job👍
Thank You.
Good en tight en! What a great demo!
Thank you kindly!
I always enjoy watching your videos, Mike.
Glad you like them!
Thanks Mike for sharing your years of knowledge. These vids are supper valuable to me and I'm sure to many others.easy to understand and follow along.VERY thorough..I have a 77 and want it to run as good as yours.THANKS AGIN FOR SPREADING THE WEALTH....
Thank You.
Interesting lesson thanks for sharing
My pleasure
Great video Mike! Thanks Kenny
Thank You
Mike - per your suggestion, I machined all of the shafts for the S&S roller rockers installed on my '51 Pan-Shovel to net .008” end play. I settled on 15 ft. lbs. on the nuts for a torque value that maintains that spec while keeping them from vibrating loose (1,000 miles since the valve job and no leaks). The valve train sounds very happy purring along at 65 mph (4-speed with 25-tooth sprocket). Thanks for another confidence-inspiring video!
Sounds to me like you put it together with love and attention to detail. Thank You.
51/25 secunder ratio? 1 and 2 person, flat land, and mountains good riding?
Just wanting to thank you for all the great information you put out for all us. Thank you from Portugal
My pleasure!
THANK YOU...for sharing. Great video.
Thanks for watching!
Thank you for sharing your Knowledge.
My pleasure!
Thanks for posting love it👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you Mike, I got the shovel going first time this year and two days later we have five inches of snow. I hope it's warming up in California. Next week possible mid to upper 50's with showers. Were headed in the right direction. As always I enjoyed your video and keep the rubber side down.
Thank You. Take care.
Great video Mike . Knowledge is a great thing to own . Thanks again
Glad you enjoyed it
My first Harley was a '76 Superglide in '77.............wish it had been an Electra Glide.........love the Electra's
I love them both. Not to hard to turn a Superglide into an Electroglide.
And there you have it...🙂 8-10 thousandths. Well within HD specs....See U out on the Road!
Thank You. I'll look forward to that.
Good morning Mr Pacific! Splendid day here in Boston and I will be getting out on Scarlett, my Night Train. Great tutorial and nothing wrong with consistent tolerances and controlling the noise levels. It's always a hoot to see a first time Harley buyer who has been riding metrics their whole life, "something is wrong with my engine, it's ticking" lmao I've seen people go to all sorts of length's trying to have a silent Harley. IMHO, if a Harley isn't ticking and making noises, I'd be concerned. Take care of yourself Mike, hope all is well.
Thank You. You too.
Hi Mike, another excellent job well done, thanks for the video.
Thanks 👍
Hey there! Another woman looking at your channel! Awesome!!!
I am a senior citizen myself..
I hope that your videos will be available for generations to come.
I'm guessing that after WWIII , the first thing that will be rebuilt is a Shovelhead.
I'll vote for that.
Thanks for the knowledge Mike.
Glad you like it.
Great job as usual Mike and thankyou. 🇨🇦
Thanks 👍
Excellent video !
Thank you very much!
Thank you for all this. Keep safe and take care to you.
Thanks, you too!
I believe you can take that eight to ten thousands number to the bank. That comes from a lifetime of experience.
Yep. It takes out the slop and is still safe from seizing. Thank You. When I started on Shovelheads, they were the newest Big Twin Harley had made. We tries shims, wave washers, and learned the err of our ways (the hard way).
Great job Mike, I definitely learned a few things here.
Awesome, thank you!
Thanks, again, MIke--love your videos.
Glad you like them! Thank You
Another good one Mike....Thanks
Glad you enjoyed it
Your vids are always good shit.
Thank You
Always an enjoyable visit.....
Thank You for stopping by.
Thanks for the refresher!!!
Our pleasure!
Torque rocker arm shaft locknut to 12 - 18 ft-lbs per the 1978 1/2 to 1984 service manual. The 70 - 77 manual (page 1-2B) specifies 15 ft-lbs for 'rocker arm housing nut' and contains a table for other hardware based on diameter and grade designation. I torque to 12 - 18 ft-lbs and use a SMALL amount of plumber's putty around the nut, which has been pretty effective for preventing weeping when driving across S. Dakota on I-90.
Cool. Thank You.
Thank you Mr Mike
Thank You
Mike, again superb vid onn rocker shafts, ive been adjustin my pushrods fo yrs but as you said.....its the end float in rocker shatfs that make the noise....
Thank You
Do you have the original hydraulic lifters or solids? Solids are much noisier.
@@pacificmike9501 i have solid lifters Mike.
When forces are asked to change motion, in difference to whence they did come,
they will take up the easiest option, all things being equal . . . & sum.
For rather than shoving yon spring down, by using smooth elbows quite well,
your rocker becometh slide hammer, & hurtles off sideways pell-mell.
Given room it will pick up inertia, it happens when iron can fly,
& it's violent thud on arrival, will be aural mud in your eye.
So leave it scant room for maneuver, yet freedom to swivel when hot,
& pre-stress the shaft with good tension, it carries the load quite a lot.
('Bong' - noon in Sherwood, dull leaden sky, need more tea & a toasted teacake. Y'all : )
Dude! I'll bet no one has ever accused you of being ON your rocker. Thank You again.
Oh, the odd one or two have tried before take-off, but I soon put all that out their mind : )
👍🙂❤️💯❗
One item for consideration. I have heard many times; 'rocker arms get tigher when the engine is warm.' Not so. Aluminum boxes and the cast rockers expand at different rates. They actually get looser as the engine warms. To confirm this I placed my freshly shimmed boxes in the freezer over night and the clearances got tighter. i then placed thenm in the oven at 200 degrees. They got loser. The same applies to cam gear to idler gears tolerances. Tighter when cold 'slight whine' and looser when warm. I believe you can find the cam info on the Andrews web site.
Andrews has great directions. However, I disagree with you on rocker arm endplay. The aluminum swells and the rocker arms can seize if they are not given enough clearance. I've seen it repeatedly on Shovelheads. I never use shims on Shovelhead rocker arms. I've seen them disintegrate a bunch of times.
@@pacificmike9501 Mike,
Thanks for your reply. The expansion of aluminum creates looser tolerance as the engine warms bc the rocker arm does not expand to the same extent as the aluminum box above it (which is pushing the openings at the ends of the rockers farther apart). This is easy to demonstrate by measuring end play then heating the rocker box as I described and remeasuring. I hope you try it. If you get a different result, I’d like to hear about it.
This may seem counter-intuitive, but if you consider that the entire rocker box is getting longer (not just ends in contact with the rocker arms), and the length of aluminum On the top of the box is much greater than the length of aluminum at the ends of the rocker, it is easier to visualize. In my opinion, the best tolerance is .004 to .010 inch (don’t go tighter). That gap will increase as the engine warms.
I bought my ’79 new off the showroom floor. While under warranty I had three exhaust valves seize in their steel guides bc Harley did not anticipate the loss of lubrication from low-lead fuel (I replaced with bronze guides and later cast iron). I have had the valves recede into the seats, also due to HD not designing for low-lead fuel (replaced with hardened seats). I have had the much maligned German cam bearing fail (which the folks at Andrews cautioned about) causing engine damage. But I have never had a rocker arm disintegrate and the rocker shaft bushings are in tolerance (they are currently sitting in my garage awaiting reassembly). That’s 120,000 miles without a rocker arm failure. The most likely reason for failure would be lack of lubrication (too high viscosity oil, not covering the oil cooler in lower temps, too low idle speed, etc.). Oil line blockage and other oddities are possible.
On the advice of a local machinist known for racing builds I have run synthetic multi-grade oil (which many people insist shouldn’t be done) since ’81. I keep my idle at 900 rpm per manufacturer recommendation. LA to DC, Key West to Canada and many points in between. Again, no rocker arm failures. Just saying.
Always good info! See ya next time!
Glad you enjoyed!
Excellent! Just found your channel & have watched two videos........only 98 to go...............
Welcome aboard! We're up to about 305 videos now.
Thanks, Mike!
Thank You
Thank you
Thank You
Well done.....
Thank You.
👍
Thank You
Thanks guy ...
Thank You
as we say with guzzis "tappy valves are happy valves" the older, less refined valve trains need play.
Solid lifters are like that.
🍻thank you ...🇺🇸
And, thank you.
Great Idea Mike for counter bore ! Have you ever used the metal shims ? I really like your method, makes perfect sense , bravo
Thank You. I don't like to add "extra" parts. They're also not very durable.
@@pacificmike9501 thank you , makes sense , good stuff
Thank You
Just the way i do it!
Thank You
Then I have lots of catching up to do........building two '67 FLH's right now.....riding Harley's since '77
Cool. I have a 67 stashed for later on. I bought my 77 new in 78.
💙
Thank You
I was wondering what holds the shaft from rotating in the entry end. Tried to see if it has an indexing spline. Thought it might be a taper fit, based on your tapping it out with the fitted punch. Then I saw you install the cap and o-ring to secure it enough to cinch down the cap nut. Am I even in the ballpark?
Guessing that you do so many of those that you can probably get very close before using the feeler gauges.
Sounds like you got it. I hadn't done a set of those rocker arms in a while. Now, I'm like "slow."
Love your style and transfer of knowledge. Would it be to much to ask for a running video to demonstrate end play noise vs lifter noise. I believe I am experiencing this end play issue on my m8.
I don't know how I would do that.
What is ultra gray I've never heard of that is it silicone or a grease ?
It is an RTV you can find at any old automotive parts supply.
First, Mike, let me say I love your videos, no BS, no Muzac, just the facts, man.
2) I'm in the middle of reviving my 90" 5- speed '68 Shovelhead I've had since the early 1970s. and wish I had this insight int to rocker end play a year ago while the engine was out of the frame. Oh, well, so be it....
3) I like the way you go about establishing end play, but what about shims, or the spacer with the preloading wave washer? Are those methods failure prone?
4) and lastly, I have subscribed, and clicked on the bell, but still do not get notified when new videos are posted. What's up with that?
Any way, Ride hard, & long....
....RooDog....
1. Thank You. 2. I improve things every time she's apart. You'll get around to it. 3. I don't criticize other people's methods, but I have seen those things come apart in motors. 4. I don't know why that "notification bell" is letting us down. That is a pain. Enjoy that hot rod bike. Sounds like fun to me.
@@pacificmike9501 Up and running, I love the power from this little 90 incher. And the 5-speed Sputhe conversion, is one of the most noticeably improvement ever made to this scooter in the over 50 years in my possession.....RooDog....
Miss my old shovel. What are we waiting on for the project bike?👍🖖
We're trying to get caught up on everything else. I want my Shovel back on the road. The Pan is up and running. I'm trying to take care of things I've promised. We'll be back on the Flathead soon.
🤞🙂
So the Ultra Grey only on the one side of the washer?
Yes
Thanks Mike!
Hello Mike
Hello Darrell
Hey Mike, love your videos. If there is a loose rocker, can the ticking come and go? I recently picked up a 78 shovel and I am getting a ticking sort of a sound that comes and goes. Having a hard time tracing it down. I have checked and double checked my hydraulic pushrods, I even checked my primary chain play. Added a thin plate to the M6. Oh, and yes, I subscribed....
Thank You. If it comes and goes, it is most likely a hydraulic valve lifter. The most suspect is usually the front exhaust lifter since it receives its oil last. It could be a little dirty or it may just be starving for oil. If so, a couple of oil changes could be all you need. Perhaps cleaning a lifter or two might help. The fact that it is not constant suggests what I just said. Be very careful to follow instructions on those operations. Remember to let lifters bleed down after adjusting them and not turn the motor over until they have. Be sure you never mix lifter parts between lifters.
Is the ID of the spacer counterbore critical, or is "just make sure it's bigger than the shaft shoulder OD plus a bit of clearance" good enough? I'm guessing the depth of the counterbore is the critical dimension, but "smaller than the rocker end but bigger than the shoulder" is the ID spec, lol
That's pretty much it. The deeper the shaft pulls into the spacer, the less endplay you'll have.
@@pacificmike9501 so would it be practical to measure endplay with the "raw" spacer (say 0.030), chuck the spacer in a lathe, and just bore it "touch off plus 0.021" to get the 0.009 Mike's ideal?
You have a variety of things to allow for. It's actually a "trial and error" situation. Using a stock brand new spacer from one supplier, rocker arms from another supplier, rocker shafts from another, and the depth of the location of the bushings in the rocker arms. Then there are the differences in the cast rocker boxes. But, any method you use to get there is just fine. I was showing a real "back yard" method.
6 point box end wrenches are designed to stay off the edges these days and seem to be a loose fit. They only contact the flat. Gearwrench is one maker. Criticized for that loose fit. I can't think of any place on my bikes i need a 12 point.
I use quite a few 12points. Lifter blocks, head bolts, Exhaust nuts. Sometimes, they give you more room that you need. But thanks for the clue on fitment.
Mike do you use loctite on assembly and when and were thanks again. For the great videos
I show it when I use it. I only use it in a few places.
@@pacificmike9501 ok thanks
Mike, I have a flathead 45 piston ring question. What is the correct location of the ring gap when inside the cylinder bore? The 45 has 2 compression rings and the bottom oil control ring. I thought the compression rings are opposed at 3 and 9 o’clock. ( I’m not really sure) and definitely unsure about the oil ring. Thanks Mike!!!!
It doesn't say anywhere in the 45 service manual. I've always just set them all 120 degrees apart (staggered). Probably don't point the top ring gap at the exhaust valve.
@@pacificmike9501 thanks for your help Mike! It’s def odd that Harley doesn’t mention it in the TM.
So I could space at 10o’clock (top ring) 2 o’clock ( 2nd compression ring) and 6 o’clock for the oil ring?
Hey Mike, I’ve recently been taking apart my 1980 Shovelhead engine to replace gaskets and all the hardware, this is my first time doing this so I’m learning a lot along the way. I’m trying to remove the rocker arm and when I go to remove the end hex bolt like you did in the beginning of the video, but the nut just spins and the shaft also spins with it. How could I go about removing the nut so I can remove the shaft. Thanks
Tighten it up again and "Surprise" it off with an air impact.
Another clearance HD overdid it on (IMO) is camshaft clearance spec..
I certainly agree, which is why I recommend going by the manufacturer of the camshaft's specs.
Yeah you're 8 ~ 10 thousands sounds much better then 25 thousands when I heard you say 25 thousands I was like wow that's a lot of play. Back in the early seventies I worked in a numbering machine factory they made various number Wheels you'd be interested, Jack Daniels is a 1200 series. The e13b that's what is on the bottom of checks. My mom was one of the engravers
Very cool. I don't just take an idle stab at clearances. I don't share those things unless I'm sure they're at least safe to run without harm.
Is this project bike gonna be ready for this season. Just wondering, not criticizing.
This is not the project bike. This is my main road bike and has priority over everything.
Hi Mike, it appears you don't use shims to get the right end play on the rocker arm shafts. You adjust the end play by countersinking the bushing in a drill press. Hence the trial and error. Have I got it?
Yes. I've seen way too many rocker arm shims come apart.
🖖🏼🏍👍🏼🍺🍺
Thank You
I have one noisy rocker but only when motor is warmed up any idea
Are you sure it's a rocker? I'm having to make assumptions here. I'm assuming you have a Shovelhead. Am I to assume you are running hydraulic lifters? If so, could it be a dirty hydraulic lifter? Gotta tell me more stuff.
What's up with the UL?
Had to stop and catch up on everything else. Back at it soon.
Hi mike so im rebuilding my 76 shovel rocker boxes, I got new shafts and had the rocker arms cleaned up. when I went to put them back together I tightened them down one had .016 endplay, one had .006 endplay and two had no end play at all and they stop rocking at minimum tightness. I called my local shop and they said to sand down the rocker arms to get the endplay, is that something common to do? do you have any experience with no endplay in a rockerbox? I also got new spacers cause I thought the used may be worn or something but the problem persists with the new ones. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I use new and old spacers to get the endplay I want. You can sand any of it you want. The spacer, if it has no countersink in its hole, will give you more endplay. We showed this on our video. Take it slow. Make sure you don't throw the pad on the rocker arm off center, at which point it will no longer hit the valve stem properly.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you, do you think it would ve better to sand the spacer and leave the rocker arms alone? the spacer are much cheaper to replace if i mess up and seem easier to sand evenly.
You're catching on now.
Give it the shaft!
Really?
I alway's forget to Ask, The Good Leather 🔨 that you Use. Where can I get a few of those, ? Pacific Mike PLEASE let me know if Ok. Thx, James.
I think any good hardware store. Ask for a "rawhide mallet."
hey mike, what is the "spacer washer" No. 34 on page 3-16 in the service manual? can't find it on my 84 Shovelhead. Do you have a part-number of the washer?
I don't have an 84 service manual here at the moment. Is this a cylinder head part with the rocker arms. I'm sure I can find it. Look at the picture and tell me where it goes.
@@pacificmike9501 it belongs to the rocker arm shaft. in the manual there is an exploded view of the rocker box. Between the rocker arm shaft screw and the o-ring is shown this "spacer washer". the book says "Spacer washer (1981 and later). Thanks for your help.
Okay. I got it! We're both pretty funny. My parts book (41-84) is out in the garage and I'll go look at it in the morning. But, I remember! Harley started using "quad seals" in place of their usual "O-Rings." 66-80 Shovelheads used an 0-ring to seal between the shaft and the screw (cap), which is located on the right side of the rocker box. However, they used a "quad seal" on the 81-later bikes. Here's where it gets fun:
Sorry, got cut off. The parts book shows both the o-ring and the quad seal. The pushrod top o-ring seal and the rocker shaft o-ring are the same part. On 81-up, the quad seal for the rocker shaft and the pushrod top quad seal are the same part. You can use either one, but not both. Just an HD funny. I had to figure that one out back in the eighties.
thanks mike. this is a crazy thing. my service manual says something about spacer, but anyway, you helped me a lot. thanks for that
Can you also use shims to make-up the end play or is drilling a better way?? Less parts in there, that's for sure.
I do whatever I need to do to the spacer that belongs in there. I don't like to use shims in there because they fatigue and come apart.
@@pacificmike9501 Good point. What happens if there is too much end play? How would you make up the difference?
Counterbore the spacer. Order new spacers. Try to keep the rocker arms centered in the rocker boxes at the pushrod holes.
Too much endplay makes too much noise. Figure about 8-10 thousandths. Make thwm all match.
@@pacificmike9501 Thank you!
Mike is there any way i can leave a comment on your home page ??
Not really. Just post it here.
Just bought a flh 74 and it's leaking out the short side of that rocker box bolt but I can't tighten it anymore any ideas?
I have subscribed great videos and great knowledge mate very well done!
Yep. Pull the head and replace all gaskets when you replace it. That's rocker box gasket and I think you're speaking of a Shovelhead.
Wait! Are you speaking of the rocker shaft, or the studs and nuts that hold the box down?
Hey Mike thanks for replying, the little counter sunk cap bolts on the right side of the rocker box I can't get the very front one to seal with the O ring, should I just use some lithium grease and maybe a squish washer? Yeah 1974 shovelhead thanks mate ! Or how much torque can you put on them bolts.
Don't overtighten. 0-rings with white lithium will usually do it. Never install 0-Rings dry.
You don't like the RED "Buttons"? I've heard bad things about them....
I just use chrome aftermarket cap nuts. I think they're pretty. And, they work well. My old Shovel is hardly a stocker.
@@pacificmike9501 My Shovel is mostly after market parts also, except for the numbers matching frame and engine...
My old girl is a RUNNER, not a trailer queen to just sit and look at...
Thanx for all the great info Mike, I re-watch your videos all the time while working on my '76 FLH runner... : )
Cool. Thank You
5-7, 😁
That's getting a little too close for me. Remember, when the aluminum rocker box gets hot, it swells, both in and out. Can make those things get a little tight in there. But, if it works for you, cool.
@@pacificmike9501 East Coast # just general conversation with an old friend. I have a better understanding now, Thankyou Pacific Mike.
Nope, 8-10 for the Good 🔧.
Thank You
👍
Thank You.