Epoch 12V 460Ah (affiliate link): www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d Litime 460Ah: www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-460ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery-250a-bms-5888wh-energy?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns Signature Solar 12V server rack battery (only $999 for 5kWh!!!): signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-12v-400ah/?ref=cPwLcVc0SW-BjN Current Connected (great for victron gear): currentconnected.com/?ref=wp *Does off-grid solar confuse you?* Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com *Join our DIY solar community* #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com *Check out my Book* Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar! amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Energy! They will price out a system and get your house offgrid: ts.la/william57509 *My DIY Solar Equipment Recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):* 12V/48V Lithium Solar Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Complete Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html Plug-N-Play System Recommendations: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete "Add to Cart" 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html *My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:* *Signature Solar* Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Current Connected* SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp *Litime* My favorite 12V budget battery!: www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns *Epoch Batteries* My favorite high-quality 12V battery: www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d *Renogy* A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more! renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx *Rich Solar* Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Battery Hookup* Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 5% off code: diysolar *Contact Information:* I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar *FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:* Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
Nice to see such quality! I'll be building a 12V system for my stationary travel trailer this summer on a tight budget so I'd like to see more smaller-scale 12V testing.
I'm on a sailboat and in the market for a new battery system. The space that I have is limited especially in height. It would be great if you could give full measurements for the batteries you showcase. Thanks for what you do.
For a future video, I really like to see a "Ultimate" vanlife system where a all electrical systems could be run at the same time including an air conditioning system, fridge, microwave, water pumps, convection burner, PC & 40" flat panel TV all at the same time. This battery would be great, however I think it would need to be set up to run 48V. So it would require 4X of these batteries. It would be a system that would not require any compromise in what systems were running at the same time. Thanks for all the great videos, All the best, M-
Holy Smokes, that's a nice build. Also, it's very nice to see a much higher charge/discharge rate. This is a very important feature, considering all potential use cases.
This is the best channel for battery technology knowledge ! Battery technology seems as complicated and technical as the computer and auto industries. It’s no wonder why this technology has taken so long to develop. I wonder if some battery company will take this channel away by offering a 6 or 7 figure compensation. You will be rich and famous, Will. Thank you for helping us.
Fun idea for a mobile application? Of course! A comms trailer complete with a ham shack, repeater, Raspberry Pi running ADS-B, Meshtastic communications, wifi and cellphone boosters including 802.11ah, powered roll up antenna mast, refrigerator, freezer, stove, toaster oven, sink, shower, bed, and a hammock of course.
Something I've been toying with the idea of for quite some time now is a solar generator that's built into a truck-bed tool box. It would probably have 2-3 of these batteries and a 3-4Kw inverter and the ability to charge from solar panels or from the alternator of the truck, but would also still be detachable like a normal truck-bed tool box. I don't know if it's already been done many times before, but these rugged and waterproof batteries seem like they would be perfect for the application! Love your videos and I've been watching you for years, thanks for all the info!
That’s an idea worth patenting! I think you’d want second alternator to charge that system & then maybe a small solar panel array to set up on sites when the truck is shut off. I hope you make it happen; meanwhile , consider protecting your idea.
I think this is the battery I have been waiting for. We live on a sailboat and a battery that offers water resistance is always a plus. Thanks Will, great video.
Also..the class t fuse is an ABYC requirement or atleast highly recommended. The cost of a class T fuse and holder is about $200 alone and these have one in each. I have found replacement fuses and ordered some for mine.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 it appears the Class T fuse and BMS for that fact are not intended to be swapped out. How would you swap them and still maintain your IP rating?
@@bdiver6445 The class T fuse it easy. The case has some bolts as well as sealant around the posts. When you go back together use red high temp RTV around the posts to case seal. The BMS would be tricky because everything inside is so close together. But im sure it could be done. The top to the case has a nice gasket
It is Epoch ("E-POK"), meaning: a noun 1. a particular period of time in history or a person's life like the Epoch Times newspaper. Nice find on the battery, and great video, as usual. I always learn a lot from your projects-thanks!
I am glad you liked this Epoch battery and it impressed during the tear-down. It is the lead candidate to replace the two lead acid batteries on my travel trailer and your review sealed the deal!
I would say this is perfect for a pontoon boat. Get two of these batteries., and I would be able to power all my lights radio equipment, music and trolling motor..
Oh, I’m so glad you did a video on this battery. I had just gotten mine last week and I love it love it love it for the quality versus price point. It’s worth it in my opinion I couldn’t be happier.🎉🎉🎉
Will, you wanted ideas so here is one. Try installing this in either an electric dumpster trailer (really battery intensive) or a plain dump trailer. Both use enormous amounts of battery power when loaded and they use it over and over again.
that is a great idea. it is similar to the portable battery need for repeated winching, like for pulling up stumps or bushes with a 6k or 12,000 lb winch. THe 300a to 500A 30 sec repeat draw is something that most of these lithium batteries are not good at.
I use four Epoch batteries in my campervan, then use two of those four to power my epropulsion outboard. They have been fantastic. Great customer service as well.
We put 400ah lithium in our boat 2.5 years ago and I'm constantly shocked at the improvements! It took two 8D sized packs to get the 400ah now it's more in half the size for the same price and better quality. Our batteries are still going strong but I'm sure when the time comes I'll pop in to see what Will recommends, again.
Will,I would love to see you upgrade an old RV’s original electrical system. Or at least parts of it. I think it could give great ideas of how to use the products you recommend.
I'm currently shopping for one unit this size for a 4 season trailer! Battle Born has absolutely price themselves off my list.... Thanks, I'll seriously give consideration to this one...✌️
I know, I don't understand Battle Born. They had plenty of warning that their prices were just way, way too high and they haven't really budged. I would have been happy to buy them at a small premium, but not 2.5x the price! Plus, for some reason, they seem to have stopped at 24V. No 48V offerings. It's crazy.
@@junkerzn7312perhaps there are enough rich people to buy them to keep them in business. In Europe where they have less income inequality than in USA, they might not succeed. Time will tell.
@@junkerzn7312 I think some of the big players like BattleBorn that were in the space early, probably paid much higher cost to produce what companies like Epoch are doing now significantly cheaper. I think it was just bad timing and now they are still trying to make some profit on that investment. Make take time for them to adjust.
@@junkerzn7312 Ya Battleborn is being mis-managed and only surviving off reputation now. That won't last forever. I went with this Epoch even though I was going to get American made Battleborn. Then compared the specs to the prices. Not only is the Epoch the BETTER battery with more features, it's also less than half the price.
Epoch was asking on their Facebook forum who do we go to for battery review so I threw your channel out there that the only channel I trust for battery reviews I’m guessing it’s for this new battery they was releasing
One of the issues we have in Australia in RVs is vibration resistance. All the best places to visit have heavily corrugated roads and tracks that play hell on vehicles and any accessories or components. Very interested in Li Time batteries vibration resistance but cannot find any reports on this.
Dang! I just got two 230ah Li-Time batteries for my mobile grooming van, but I wish I would have seen this review first. The waterproof case would be perfect and I love the mounting holes. Very nice battery!
I do like these. Just installed one on a 5th wheel. But you still need the bmv from Victron for it to show up on the cerbo touch 50 main screen. Definitely don’t buy the cheapest battery around. I mean you get what you pay for at a point
Wow, wow, wow!!! Epiphany!!! I have my system in but need to really really understand the workings of each component and their interactions with each other to maximize their performance overall. Either that, or fire my electrician who set it up!! There's more to all of this than meets the eye!!! Is there a book or books in layman's terms on this? A class??!!! I'm at my wits end!!! I have 12 eg4 batteries, 48v 100ah. 2 eg4 6500es inverters. 27 465w/575w blue sun panels. Batteries are in 2---6 banks connected in parallel. Currently in off grid. Before going off grid, I used an average of 15kw daily w/o hvac use. About 36-38kw daily with hvac use. 1200 sq ft home. Well insulated. Whole house on demand propane water heater. Stove is propane. I did have 14 freezers going, but down to 9 now. I butcher my meat and have a big garden. Can my own pantry items. I'm not a dummy, by no means, but I'm faced with this learning curve!! H.E.L.P!!! Princeton, Indiana. I live out of city limits in country. I'm a smart enough, 66 yr old woman.
Sounds very similar to what I'm installing next month. All EG4 batteries and solar panels. I have 8 batteries and 32 panels though. Any tips to watch for as they install it?
@stephaniedelaney6833 what inverters? Hindsight now, I wished I hadn't canceled my grid service. I had a transfer switch to use the grid or solar. It's a huge wake-up call off grid relying only on solar in winter months! You need to be a millionaire to afford the solar components.
That’s a very impressive battery compared to many of Will’s other tear-down examples. I would have been surprised if this battery did not have heaters and the other features. It is really neat that the battery natively speaks Victron to make it almost plug and play.
Hey will thanks again for your very good informative videos on new products. I’m look to go off grid with a massive 48 volt system. I don’t have the knowledge you have and don’t understand why this company only allows 4 of these 12v 460ah batteries to be hooked together.? This brand has my attention because of the basically plug and play with victron components, which is the only components I want to use. I would love to see these batteries in more videos of yours. Thanks again for the assistance in making people feel more comfortable on that what they spend their hard earned money on, for giving them more self assurance on what they are actually buying. 🤙🏻
I have a couple videos on my channel that show how to hook these up to Victron equipment. It works great. On the price of this you have to consider the class t fuse included. A class T fuse and holder is nearly $200 and is a requirement in Marine installations.
What would be really nice if you would show us a simple basic system say maybe 300 W which MPPT you like and maybe set it up for a 24/48 V System A lot of us have cabins and a lot of people are trying to install solar systems in vans and something like this would probably be really helpful for a lot of people not just me setting up my cabin.
Wow! Love it! Problem for me is that I have to remove my two golf cart batteries every time I come home from camping due to theft...and store them in my garage...and of course install them before every trip. One GC battery weighs about 60 lbs so easy for me to handle. The Epoch weighing in at 97 lbs is going to be beyond my lifting ability. Dang!
@@richardbizon8620I already use a small hand truck to move the 60#’ers one at a time the 25 yards to the garage. The problem is lifting that 98 lb battery into and out of the battery box. No way this 80 YO back is lifting 98 lbs! 😅
I appreciate your videos. A couple of years ago I bought a lifepo4 battery, a solar panel and a few accessories, and I built my own solar generator. I use it primarily for running a trolling motor for my canoe and for camping . I have a question that I hope you can answer . If I do want to on rare occasions, fast charge this battery box from my car . Can I simply run a Jumper wire from my car battery in parallel to my battery box. What I'm thinking is that the car battery and alternator should be able to bring the battery box at least up to the charge level of the car battery .. For an occasional fast charge .. since the solar charger is a dedicated lithium charger, That will do the proper charge on the battery box after I disconnected from the car battery. Is that a terrible idea ? I was thinking, all I would have to do is run some heavy cables through a smart solenoid to the car battery to an Anderson connecter Since it's not permanently installed and regularly being charged that way is it safe or stupid?
Just bought this exact battery and got it installed with some Renogy inverters and their big charge controller. The build quality is definitely amazing.
Question??? Will, can you do an episode on what to do with neutral from inverter to a transfer switch going to house panel and tying it to panel neutral bar or not tying it together. ( E.G. ) Inverter to Transfer switch to Furnace on 1 house circuit . Thx
I would love to see as basic/bare-bones of an install that you can pull off with the following components: One Epoch 460AH battery or 2 Epoch 300AH essentials batteries (preferred), a Victron Multiplus 30A/3000W Inverter/Charger, and up to 4 Bouge RV Yuma CIGS 200W solar panels, with an appropriately sized MPPT. I Am considerg this type of build for an InTech Aucta travel trailer which has 30A Shore power, alternator charging, and this added solar.
I love your videos. I hope you can clear something up for me as I consider you a lithium savant. You mention for higher output rating you can put another battery in parallel increase the discharge rate. I googled this question and most of the results state that the discharge rate does not change with another battery in parallel. All seemingly agree that the amp hour "capacity" increases. but not the discharge rate.I promise I'll accept your answer as the final word!
It doubles when connected in parallel. Think of it this way...when both batteries are in parallel, or connected as a single battery, both BMS's (assuming each battery has its own internal BMS) are operating at full capacity, so the output doubles just as the available power does. So if a single one of your batteries has a 200 amp continuous output discharge, you now have two of them (if two batteries are in parallel) outputting 200 amps continuous each, so 400 amps continuous total. They basically share the load so if your running a 1500 watt appliance, each battery contributes an equal output. Because of this fact, it allows you to run a larger inverter that draws higher amperages, and consequently run higher loads as well. This is what he meant when he said that. Also, the term discharge rate can mean other things as well.
I design and install systems for conversions vans and I've been looking for a nice midrange battery. I've used SOK in the past but I've always been a little leery. I think I'm going to try a few build with these guys! Thanks Will!
Hey Will for all us saltwater boaters out there it would be great to test this battery for extreme vibration and saltwater exposure. Boaters are very concerned about safety (not a lot of good options if there were a fire).
I would like to see a battery like this set up in a fish house. I know you don't get the cold weather like I do in Central MN. Would be interesting to see how the internal heater works and how much it draws.
Very nice battery, but for my particular needs on my yacht, I need the batteries to start a diesel engine. This is why I chose to use multiple Valence U27-12XP batteries. The Bms in these 138 amp/hr units is capable of 150 amps continuous and 300 amps for 30 seconds. I started with 6 of them and they were mere than sufficient to start my engines. Now since I found a real good deal on them, I have acquired 7 more at approximately $300 each including shipping and having capacities of 120+ amps since they are used. This would give me almost 2000 amps continuous, far more than I could ever need. This is mostly for sitting in bad weather at anchors for multiple days on end with minimal daylight for charging. With nearly 3 kw of solar, I may even be able to run the A/C for many hours a day. These large batteries are nice but they certainly lack continuous output power.
Please comment on the actual Victron integration. Is it RV-C, too? Does it come with the CAN cable(s) for multiple batteries in parallel? Is the cabling standard CAN or NMEA 2K? Does it handle BMS aggregation and loss of a battery gracefully? How are the manuals? What kind of cells and cell configuration? How does it handle individual cell balancing in 2p4s if using 230Ah cells? [edit: specifications on web actually say 4s2p. With a single BMS??? Seems novel!] What is the distance between the studs in the class T fuse for replacements (heaven forbid something causes the need!!)? Is the fuse UL listed? VERY promising product. I hope you put it through its paces. Your paces can/will make it better for all of us. Thank you
Curious what the actual cells are, and what the BMS balancing method is. Really like that this speaks CAN and appears to have correctly sized busbars for a change.
I think people may want to know if it is suitable for marine applications (specifically installations on sailboats and powerboats). It appears to be a good candidate. For example with product destined for US Naval vessels we did mil spec shock and vibe testing. Perhaps some kind of rudimentary shock and vibe testing for marine applications?
The lift looks to have a high Locked Rotor Amps when the car is bearing down on the lift mechanism, but a lower locked rotor amps when the lift was at the bottom. Which brings up a great project or request for solution, and the influence of Will Prowse making that challenge to suppliers might bring about the solution. Roughly, we only need that surge of power until the rotor gets up to a speed where the motor is designed to operate. Some type of general purpose start capacitor (call it 'surge capacitor' ?) to be a modular tool that can be added to inverters. It works like booster rockets for military planes that take off from short runways.
@WillProwse it would be great if you could deeply review what the Victron comms can do exactly. I am very interested to know if the Epoch battery can send a signal (through the Cerbo?) to a Wakespeed, or other external regulator, to shut down properly at full charge. Meanwhile, thanks for all you do!
Hi Will. love all the great work you do testing all the DIY battery gear on the market. Will you be testing the new ANKER SOLIX F3800 ? Everybody is making videos on how you can connect them to act as whole house backup units with just one battery - really - 15 or 20 minutes if you are lucky. I am interested in getting one because of the UPS mode that they can be used in, but no one has tested this mode to see if they switch from mains to battery power fast enough to act as a server farm backup unit. running 240 volt systems. Love for you to check one of these out.
No comment on whether the battery has passive or active balancing? What about Bluetooth!? What is the cell configuration? Are the charging/balancing settings adjustable? What BMS is installed?
Please look at the Epoch dual purpose battery coming out in Q1 2024. Considering for my dual battery 97 Ford F250 7.3L. Looks like it might handle the >14.4v most BMSs are limited to and can be triggered by alternators that peak >15.4v.
Trying to decide between this and the BB for our 20K+ battery bank on our catamaran. It would only take four in a 2S2P to get me over 20KWh @24V. I know BB is coming out with their new Dragonfly Tech which should be similar, but I would need six of those... The Epoch sounds really promising.
Sorry, I cannot let this go 😄. I would pronounce it "e-pock" since it's a real word. The "h" is silent. Definition of epoch: an event or a time marked by an event that begins a new period or development. This battery is truly epic! 🤣.
You'll probably have this one for ten years plus. Built like a Lithium tank. Divide the cost difference by 10 and it only cost $50 per year to own over the Li Time. I like buying the best available at the time..........Epoch would be my choice.
Ben looking at batters for my bus for a year now. This may be the one to by for us. I will need 3 of them. Just still a bit concerned about battery fires with lithium
Definitely looking at a pair of these for a cruising sailboat application. On their own we're not quite at start battery levels or current. I'm still sticking with lead acid there for reliability. Really nice to be able to see inside before I hit the order button.
Can you please, please, please do a tear down on the Vatrer 460ah with the metal enclosure? I was stuck between this Epoch and the Vatrer. I ended up going with thr Vatrer and so far very, very pleased - but I'm dying to see a tear down!
You reviewed the Inergy Apex 1500 a couple years ago, you ever going to review the Inergy Flex Tactical 1500 modular system? They're billing it as weather and even EMP-resistant.
Considering 2 of these in my RV with a Victron 3000 watt hybrid inverter and 5 200 watt solar panels on the roof. The idea is to have more power than what I need and be able to run the AC for 4 to 5 hours a day if truly needed.
Love your videos.... Truly... How about designing and building an EV charging station as a real world project. Panels, Inverters, batteries and charging infrastructure etc, to achieve the fastest home charging. sustainably... Sounds like a great project....... Lotsa love for you here in Australia....
I always watch your videos about lithium batteries. I was wondering if you could explain supercapacitors, how to assemble a large bank, what bms you would use in them. Thank you very much and keep telling the truth about lithium batteries.
Will, this is a fantastic review of this Epoch 460Ah Battery. Have you reviewed the other Epoch 12V 460Ah Battery? I'm trying to decide between the two batteries for my motorhome coach.
thank you for reviewing this battery, I'm thinking of buying the same battery from my Spead boat with outboard engines what holding me back is the charging out of the outboard engines will it be enough to charge the battery total battery 3X AGM optima 50Ah for starting the eningens + Epoch 12V 460Ah LiFePO4 Battery Speed Boat with 3x Veroado 350 Pro
Thank you for the video, great job. I wonder if maybe starting a motor with clearer specs might be a better test, but since the inverter is the limiting factor, it probably doesn't matter too much. And then as this video showed, the initial load can change the starting requirements, further complicating things. I wish I had a better idea for how to predict if a given inverter/battery setup would be able to start a certain motor size, rather than figuring on 2-5x continuous load would equal inrush current. I probably just need to do more research.
I’m hoping to see prices go way down as the price of Lithium has been going down as I last checked it was 76%. Because cars are not selling. The full check of the lift was after going up a foot, then restarted.
A battery with a decent fuse in it. Even if the BMS lets the smoke out trying to break short circuit current and the FETs go short the fuse will step in. Now I'm impressed.
Please review an EPOCH “Essential Series” battery, such as the 12v 300AH. I’m very curious how the build quality compares to the fancy 460AH model, and to the Power Urus (Roy Pow) batteries.
Huh, I might even be able to find a place to put that on my boat, most 400AH+ batteries will not fit. weight is... as expected, if it was any less, the AH rating would be suspect. But really, a lot of 100AH LA batteries weight about that much and we have been lugging those around around forever. I had to look up the size cause if you said it I missed it ;) but I have a place for it. The big reason to use smaller batteries on a boat is normally fitting them in. I have 300AH of LA right now, this might make a good replacement for some of it (I need to keep the starter battery). One of those batteries is coming out anyway, 'cause its in the way and I have a lithium to replace it (I use it for the dinghy motor)
Will, i live in the very north east and travel 3-4 months a year. I use but, don't depend on solar as it is minimal up here. I have no need for a battery that drains its self heating its self. Yfi is of no use to me. If I'm not down south, i take out my two litime 230ah Plus batteries and use them in the house.
Hey Mr solar.. iWatch one of your videos from 4 years ago..you hooked controller to the inverter..I thought it got hooked to the battery now I'm really confused lol.. please explain why you do different procedures instead of just how to do it.. you are a genius in electrical solar
My young smart friend, You have helped me soooo much. Lot of tricks to the trade when assembling electronics. Please help me out. With your help I bought a battery and have settled on solar panels. Q: I have a 30lb (30 amp??) trolling motor I’m re-wiring with a speed controller with reverse polarity switch. I’m not sure about amps. They are available in 20 amp and 40 amp….which is best for the 30 amp trolling motor. Would the 40 burn it out? Thanks Dan 64 year old project man😂🤣
I also gotta confess, I Never knew what the ♥️was for…got ya covered. I was just going to thank ya by hitting the heart😂🤣. You’ve given me/everyone valuable le$$ons and you have good communication skills. You don’t assume everyone knows how to even…put a cable on a battery properly. You show every step👍
Can you use any Solar charge controller with battery or does it have to charge with a Victron controller? Or does is just communicate better with the Victron controller? If someone could please answer that would be great. Thank you
Epoch 12V 460Ah (affiliate link): www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d
Litime 460Ah: www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-460ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery-250a-bms-5888wh-energy?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns
Signature Solar 12V server rack battery (only $999 for 5kWh!!!): signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-battery-12v-400ah/?ref=cPwLcVc0SW-BjN
Current Connected (great for victron gear): currentconnected.com/?ref=wp
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*Epoch Batteries*
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Nice to see such quality! I'll be building a 12V system for my stationary travel trailer this summer on a tight budget so I'd like to see more smaller-scale 12V testing.
I'm on a sailboat and in the market for a new battery system. The space that I have is limited especially in height. It would be great if you could give full measurements for the batteries you showcase.
Thanks for what you do.
@@MrM-hl1vp size specs should be on the product webpage. Will tends to cover only information that can’t be found anywhere else.
@@edwardlulofs444 wouldn't it be easier if you are doing a review just to add that?
Just saying.
@@MrM-hl1vp I guess we’ll see what happens…
The RV Discord group I'm a part of loves these batteries and I can see why. They look top notch for sure.
For a future video, I really like to see a "Ultimate" vanlife system where a all electrical systems could be run at the same time including an air conditioning system, fridge, microwave, water pumps, convection burner, PC & 40" flat panel TV all at the same time.
This battery would be great, however I think it would need to be set up to run 48V. So it would require 4X of these batteries.
It would be a system that would not require any compromise in what systems were running at the same time.
Thanks for all the great videos,
All the best,
M-
I am posting a similar request. Thank for posting this.
Holy Smokes, that's a nice build. Also, it's very nice to see a much higher charge/discharge rate. This is a very important feature, considering all potential use cases.
This is the best channel for battery technology knowledge !
Battery technology seems as complicated and technical as the computer and auto industries.
It’s no wonder why this technology has taken so long to develop.
I wonder if some battery company will take this channel away by offering a 6 or 7 figure compensation.
You will be rich and famous, Will.
Thank you for helping us.
Fun idea for a mobile application? Of course! A comms trailer complete with a ham shack, repeater, Raspberry Pi running ADS-B, Meshtastic communications, wifi and cellphone boosters including 802.11ah, powered roll up antenna mast, refrigerator, freezer, stove, toaster oven, sink, shower, bed, and a hammock of course.
Something I've been toying with the idea of for quite some time now is a solar generator that's built into a truck-bed tool box. It would probably have 2-3 of these batteries and a 3-4Kw inverter and the ability to charge from solar panels or from the alternator of the truck, but would also still be detachable like a normal truck-bed tool box. I don't know if it's already been done many times before, but these rugged and waterproof batteries seem like they would be perfect for the application! Love your videos and I've been watching you for years, thanks for all the info!
That’s an idea worth patenting! I think you’d want second alternator to charge that system & then maybe a small solar panel array to set up on sites when the truck is shut off. I hope you make it happen; meanwhile , consider protecting your idea.
Will, thanks for looking at this one. And a late Merry Christmas. TAKE CARE..
I think this is the battery I have been waiting for. We live on a sailboat and a battery that offers water resistance is always a plus. Thanks Will, great video.
It really does shine for a boat. Especially if you have Victron stuff. I have a few videos showing the kook up and testing with Victron.
Also..the class t fuse is an ABYC requirement or atleast highly recommended. The cost of a class T fuse and holder is about $200 alone and these have one in each. I have found replacement fuses and ordered some for mine.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 Do you mind sending me the videos you made? Or your channel.
@@mvintrigue-trawlerdiy1101 it appears the Class T fuse and BMS for that fact are not intended to be swapped out. How would you swap them and still maintain your IP rating?
@@bdiver6445 The class T fuse it easy. The case has some bolts as well as sealant around the posts. When you go back together use red high temp RTV around the posts to case seal. The BMS would be tricky because everything inside is so close together. But im sure it could be done. The top to the case has a nice gasket
This company is puttinng out some phenomenal batteries right now. Its amazing how far this space has grown in the past couple of years.
It is Epoch ("E-POK"), meaning: a noun
1. a particular period of time in history or a person's life
like the Epoch Times newspaper. Nice find on the battery, and great video, as usual. I always learn a lot from your projects-thanks!
I am glad you liked this Epoch battery and it impressed during the tear-down. It is the lead candidate to replace the two lead acid batteries on my travel trailer and your review sealed the deal!
I would say this is perfect for a pontoon boat. Get two of these batteries., and I would be able to power all my lights radio equipment, music and trolling motor..
WILL thank you . I liked what i saw and order one straight away , and received 15% holiday discount . Looks a great product
Oh, I’m so glad you did a video on this battery. I had just gotten mine last week and I love it love it love it for the quality versus price point. It’s worth it in my opinion I couldn’t be happier.🎉🎉🎉
This things awesome
Yes finally! This is what I been waiting for! Great video will
This thing is a beast! LFG
We bought 2 of the 36v for our all electric bass jon boat. They are phenomenal.
Thanks!
Love the honesty of your videos
Will, you wanted ideas so here is one. Try installing this in either an electric dumpster trailer (really battery intensive) or a plain dump trailer. Both use enormous amounts of battery power when loaded and they use it over and over again.
Oh interesting idea!
I rented one.Went to dump it and bat sure did seem like it needed charged.
that is a great idea. it is similar to the portable battery need for repeated winching, like for pulling up stumps or bushes with a 6k or 12,000 lb winch. THe 300a to 500A 30 sec repeat draw is something that most of these lithium batteries are not good at.
I use four Epoch batteries in my campervan, then use two of those four to power my epropulsion outboard. They have been fantastic. Great customer service as well.
Awesome. What kind of boat?
@@daveg4963 Gala dinghy with 6KW/9.9hp
4??? thats like $12,000 in batteries 😱
@@robtdougherty I purchased my batteries for $900 each
@@robertpahmer763 - oh haha. The battery in this video is listed at $2999.
Happy to see this review, we've been using these batteries on some of our installs and we agree the quality and features offered are phenomenal.
We put 400ah lithium in our boat 2.5 years ago and I'm constantly shocked at the improvements! It took two 8D sized packs to get the 400ah now it's more in half the size for the same price and better quality.
Our batteries are still going strong but I'm sure when the time comes I'll pop in to see what Will recommends, again.
It’s a $2,000 battery with a $2999 msrp
It’s appealing maybe even at a price premium but not at 200% over alternatives
Will,I would love to see you upgrade an old RV’s original electrical system. Or at least parts of it. I think it could give great ideas of how to use the products you recommend.
I'm currently shopping for one unit this size for a 4 season trailer! Battle Born has absolutely price themselves off my list....
Thanks, I'll seriously give consideration to this one...✌️
I know, I don't understand Battle Born. They had plenty of warning that their prices were just way, way too high and they haven't really budged. I would have been happy to buy them at a small premium, but not 2.5x the price! Plus, for some reason, they seem to have stopped at 24V. No 48V offerings. It's crazy.
@@junkerzn7312perhaps there are enough rich people to buy them to keep them in business.
In Europe where they have less income inequality than in USA, they might not succeed.
Time will tell.
Yes, Even Victron has announced TWO price drops on their Li batteries in the last three months!
@@junkerzn7312 I think some of the big players like BattleBorn that were in the space early, probably paid much higher cost to produce what companies like Epoch are doing now significantly cheaper. I think it was just bad timing and now they are still trying to make some profit on that investment. Make take time for them to adjust.
@@junkerzn7312 Ya Battleborn is being mis-managed and only surviving off reputation now. That won't last forever. I went with this Epoch even though I was going to get American made Battleborn. Then compared the specs to the prices. Not only is the Epoch the BETTER battery with more features, it's also less than half the price.
Way to go with the video. Keep them coming. The information you give helps us DIY'ers out.
Four of these in a 48v van system with a secondary 48v/160a Alternator & Wakespeed WS500 would be a perfect setup for full timing.
Epoch was asking on their Facebook forum who do we go to for battery review so I threw your channel out there that the only channel I trust for battery reviews I’m guessing it’s for this new battery they was releasing
We have two, with Victron and the new Venus Zeus external regulator. Looking forward to install in our 43' DeFever Trawler
This thing has insane power Thanks will
One of the issues we have in Australia in RVs is vibration resistance. All the best places to visit have heavily corrugated roads and tracks that play hell on vehicles and any accessories or components. Very interested in Li Time batteries vibration resistance but cannot find any reports on this.
Dang! I just got two 230ah Li-Time batteries for my mobile grooming van, but I wish I would have seen this review first. The waterproof case would be perfect and I love the mounting holes. Very nice battery!
I do like these. Just installed one on a 5th wheel. But you still need the bmv from
Victron for it to show up on the cerbo touch 50 main screen. Definitely don’t buy the cheapest battery around. I mean you get what you pay for at a point
Wow, wow, wow!!! Epiphany!!! I have my system in but need to really really understand the workings of each component and their interactions with each other to maximize their performance overall. Either that, or fire my electrician who set it up!! There's more to all of this than meets the eye!!! Is there a book or books in layman's terms on this? A class??!!! I'm at my wits end!!! I have 12 eg4 batteries, 48v 100ah. 2 eg4 6500es inverters. 27 465w/575w blue sun panels. Batteries are in 2---6 banks connected in parallel. Currently in off grid. Before going off grid, I used an average of 15kw daily w/o hvac use. About 36-38kw daily with hvac use. 1200 sq ft home. Well insulated. Whole house on demand propane water heater. Stove is propane. I did have 14 freezers going, but down to 9 now. I butcher my meat and have a big garden. Can my own pantry items. I'm not a dummy, by no means, but I'm faced with this learning curve!! H.E.L.P!!! Princeton, Indiana. I live out of city limits in country. I'm a smart enough, 66 yr old woman.
Sounds very similar to what I'm installing next month. All EG4 batteries and solar panels. I have 8 batteries and 32 panels though. Any tips to watch for as they install it?
@stephaniedelaney6833 what inverters? Hindsight now, I wished I hadn't canceled my grid service. I had a transfer switch to use the grid or solar. It's a huge wake-up call off grid relying only on solar in winter months! You need to be a millionaire to afford the solar components.
Small shed that needs lighting inside and outside, maybe an inverter for 120v to operate light power tools
I'd like to see a travel trailer setup with a 30amp connection
That’s a very impressive battery compared to many of Will’s other tear-down examples. I would have been surprised if this battery did not have heaters and the other features. It is really neat that the battery natively speaks Victron to make it almost plug and play.
Agreed
It does have heating, and the bluetooth app is one of the best I've seen.
@@tommckelvey3609 Thanks for the replay and added information. It’s good to see a quality product.
Happy new year Will. Looking forward to seeing more of your posts. Thank you and have a happy new year
Awesome review! I want to see more of this battery!
Amazing piece of engineering 👍
Hey will thanks again for your very good informative videos on new products. I’m look to go off grid with a massive 48 volt system. I don’t have the knowledge you have and don’t understand why this company only allows 4 of these 12v 460ah batteries to be hooked together.? This brand has my attention because of the basically plug and play with victron components, which is the only components I want to use. I would love to see these batteries in more videos of yours. Thanks again for the assistance in making people feel more comfortable on that what they spend their hard earned money on, for giving them more self assurance on what they are actually buying. 🤙🏻
I have a couple videos on my channel that show how to hook these up to Victron equipment. It works great. On the price of this you have to consider the class t fuse included. A class T fuse and holder is nearly $200 and is a requirement in Marine installations.
I think you would dominate the electric sailboat video content community.
Thank you Will. I love your videos!
What would be really nice if you would show us a simple basic system
say maybe 300 W
which MPPT you like
and maybe set it up for a 24/48 V System
A lot of us have cabins
and a lot of people are trying to install solar systems in vans
and something like this would probably be really helpful for a lot of people
not just me setting up my cabin.
Wow! Love it! Problem for me is that I have to remove my two golf cart batteries every time I come home from camping due to theft...and store them in my garage...and of course install them before every trip. One GC battery weighs about 60 lbs so easy for me to handle. The Epoch weighing in at 97 lbs is going to be beyond my lifting ability. Dang!
You could make a cart to slide them on and roll that in your garage small and simple.
@@richardbizon8620I already use a small hand truck to move the 60#’ers one at a time the 25 yards to the garage. The problem is lifting that 98 lb battery into and out of the battery box. No way this 80 YO back is lifting 98 lbs! 😅
I always get a chuckle over how Will says DEE EYE PEE instead of DIP (like dip for chips), when referring to DIP switches.
I appreciate your videos.
A couple of years ago I bought a lifepo4 battery, a solar panel and a few accessories, and I built my own solar generator.
I use it primarily for running a trolling motor for my canoe and for camping .
I have a question that I hope you can answer .
If I do want to on rare occasions, fast charge this battery box from my car .
Can I simply run a Jumper wire from my car battery in parallel to my battery box.
What I'm thinking is that the car battery and alternator should be able to bring the battery box at least up to the charge level of the car battery ..
For an occasional fast charge .. since the solar charger is a dedicated lithium charger, That will do the proper charge on the battery box after I disconnected from the car battery.
Is that a terrible idea ?
I was thinking, all I would have to do is run some heavy cables through a smart solenoid to the car battery to an Anderson connecter Since it's not permanently installed and regularly being charged that way is it safe or stupid?
Thanks!
Just bought this exact battery and got it installed with some Renogy inverters and their big charge controller. The build quality is definitely amazing.
Question??? Will, can you do an episode on what to do with neutral from inverter to a transfer switch going to house panel and tying it to panel neutral bar or not tying it together. ( E.G. ) Inverter to Transfer switch to Furnace on 1 house circuit . Thx
I would love to see as basic/bare-bones of an install that you can pull off with the following components: One Epoch 460AH battery or 2 Epoch 300AH essentials batteries (preferred), a Victron Multiplus 30A/3000W Inverter/Charger, and up to 4 Bouge RV Yuma CIGS 200W solar panels, with an appropriately sized MPPT. I Am considerg this type of build for an InTech Aucta travel trailer which has 30A Shore power, alternator charging, and this added solar.
I love your videos. I hope you can clear something up for me as I consider you a lithium savant. You mention for higher output rating you can put another battery in parallel increase the discharge rate. I googled this question and most of the results state that the discharge rate does not change with another battery in parallel. All seemingly agree that the amp hour "capacity" increases. but not the discharge rate.I promise I'll accept your answer as the final word!
It doubles when connected in parallel. Think of it this way...when both batteries are in parallel, or connected as a single battery, both BMS's (assuming each battery has its own internal BMS) are operating at full capacity, so the output doubles just as the available power does. So if a single one of your batteries has a 200 amp continuous output discharge, you now have two of them (if two batteries are in parallel) outputting 200 amps continuous each, so 400 amps continuous total. They basically share the load so if your running a 1500 watt appliance, each battery contributes an equal output. Because of this fact, it allows you to run a larger inverter that draws higher amperages, and consequently run higher loads as well. This is what he meant when he said that. Also, the term discharge rate can mean other things as well.
It would be interesting to see which setup can run a welding machine off the batteries and for how long... thanks for all the great deets!
I design and install systems for conversions vans and I've been looking for a nice midrange battery. I've used SOK in the past but I've always been a little leery. I think I'm going to try a few build with these guys! Thanks Will!
"leery", as in cautious, suspicious
@@mikemotorbike4283that’s the word, thank you
Would be great to see how to set up 48V system for RV that need 12V and 120
Hey Will for all us saltwater boaters out there it would be great to test this battery for extreme vibration and saltwater exposure. Boaters are very concerned about safety (not a lot of good options if there were a fire).
I would like to see a battery like this set up in a fish house.
I know you don't get the cold weather like I do in Central MN.
Would be interesting to see how the internal heater works and how much it draws.
Such an awesome battery, thanks for the review!
Very nice battery, but for my particular needs on my yacht, I need the batteries to start a diesel engine. This is why I chose to use multiple Valence U27-12XP batteries. The Bms in these 138 amp/hr units is capable of 150 amps continuous and 300 amps for 30 seconds. I started with 6 of them and they were mere than sufficient to start my engines. Now since I found a real good deal on them, I have acquired 7 more at approximately $300 each including shipping and having capacities of 120+ amps since they are used. This would give me almost 2000 amps continuous, far more than I could ever need. This is mostly for sitting in bad weather at anchors for multiple days on end with minimal daylight for charging. With nearly 3 kw of solar, I may even be able to run the A/C for many hours a day. These large batteries are nice but they certainly lack continuous output power.
Please comment on the actual Victron integration. Is it RV-C, too? Does it come with the CAN cable(s) for multiple batteries in parallel? Is the cabling standard CAN or NMEA 2K? Does it handle BMS aggregation and loss of a battery gracefully? How are the manuals? What kind of cells and cell configuration? How does it handle individual cell balancing in 2p4s if using 230Ah cells? [edit: specifications on web actually say 4s2p. With a single BMS??? Seems novel!] What is the distance between the studs in the class T fuse for replacements (heaven forbid something causes the need!!)? Is the fuse UL listed?
VERY promising product. I hope you put it through its paces. Your paces can/will make it better for all of us. Thank you
Curious what the actual cells are, and what the BMS balancing method is. Really like that this speaks CAN and appears to have correctly sized busbars for a change.
This is going to be a perfect house battery for my boat.
Was wondering on how well the Big Beard Batteries are? Thanks for the video!
I think people may want to know if it is suitable for marine applications (specifically installations on sailboats and powerboats). It appears to be a good candidate. For example with product destined for US Naval vessels we did mil spec shock and vibe testing. Perhaps some kind of rudimentary shock and vibe testing for marine applications?
Thank you Will keep up the good work. Love you videos. I can’t wait for you to do the new EcoFlow delta ultra
The lift looks to have a high Locked Rotor Amps when the car is bearing down on the lift mechanism, but a lower locked rotor amps when the lift was at the bottom. Which brings up a great project or request for solution, and the influence of Will Prowse making that challenge to suppliers might bring about the solution. Roughly, we only need that surge of power until the rotor gets up to a speed where the motor is designed to operate. Some type of general purpose start capacitor (call it 'surge capacitor' ?) to be a modular tool that can be added to inverters. It works like booster rockets for military planes that take off from short runways.
@WillProwse it would be great if you could deeply review what the Victron comms can do exactly. I am very interested to know if the Epoch battery can send a signal (through the Cerbo?) to a Wakespeed, or other external regulator, to shut down properly at full charge. Meanwhile, thanks for all you do!
Hi Will. love all the great work you do testing all the DIY battery gear on the market.
Will you be testing the new ANKER SOLIX F3800 ? Everybody is making videos on how you can connect them to act as whole house backup units with just one battery - really - 15 or 20 minutes if you are lucky. I am interested in getting one because of the UPS mode that they can be used in, but no one has tested this mode to see if they switch from mains to battery power fast enough to act as a server farm backup unit. running 240 volt systems.
Love for you to check one of these out.
Excellent review thank you sir six stars
Epoch = E - Pock
Epich = Epic
They messed that up🤦🏻♂️
They're obviously completely uneducated.
No comment on whether the battery has passive or active balancing? What about Bluetooth!? What is the cell configuration? Are the charging/balancing settings adjustable? What BMS is installed?
I like the full tear-down reviews much better.
Please look at the Epoch dual purpose battery coming out in Q1 2024. Considering for my dual battery 97 Ford F250 7.3L. Looks like it might handle the >14.4v most BMSs are limited to and can be triggered by alternators that peak >15.4v.
Trying to decide between this and the BB for our 20K+ battery bank on our catamaran. It would only take four in a 2S2P to get me over 20KWh @24V. I know BB is coming out with their new Dragonfly Tech which should be similar, but I would need six of those... The Epoch sounds really promising.
Sorry, I cannot let this go 😄. I would pronounce it "e-pock" since it's a real word. The "h" is silent. Definition of epoch: an event or a time marked by an event that begins a new period or development. This battery is truly epic! 🤣.
Hahaha
Right
You'll probably have this one for ten years plus. Built like a Lithium tank. Divide the cost difference by 10 and it only cost $50 per year to own over the Li Time. I like buying the best available at the time..........Epoch would be my choice.
Ben looking at batters for my bus for a year now. This may be the one to by for us. I will need 3 of them. Just still a bit concerned about battery fires with lithium
Definitely looking at a pair of these for a cruising sailboat application. On their own we're not quite at start battery levels or current. I'm still sticking with lead acid there for reliability.
Really nice to be able to see inside before I hit the order button.
Can you please, please, please do a tear down on the Vatrer 460ah with the metal enclosure? I was stuck between this Epoch and the Vatrer. I ended up going with thr Vatrer and so far very, very pleased - but I'm dying to see a tear down!
You reviewed the Inergy Apex 1500 a couple years ago, you ever going to review the Inergy Flex Tactical 1500 modular system? They're billing it as weather and even EMP-resistant.
Considering 2 of these in my RV with a Victron 3000 watt hybrid inverter and 5 200 watt solar panels on the roof. The idea is to have more power than what I need and be able to run the AC for 4 to 5 hours a day if truly needed.
Love your videos.... Truly... How about designing and building an EV charging station as a real world project. Panels, Inverters, batteries and charging infrastructure etc, to achieve the fastest home charging. sustainably... Sounds like a great project....... Lotsa love for you here in Australia....
I always watch your videos about lithium batteries. I was wondering if you could explain supercapacitors, how to assemble a large bank, what bms you would use in them.
Thank you very much and keep telling the truth about lithium batteries.
Will, this is a fantastic review of this Epoch 460Ah Battery. Have you reviewed the other Epoch 12V 460Ah Battery? I'm trying to decide between the two batteries for my motorhome coach.
thank you for reviewing this battery, I'm thinking of buying the same battery from my Spead boat with outboard engines
what holding me back is the charging out of the outboard engines will it be enough to charge the battery
total battery
3X AGM optima 50Ah for starting the eningens + Epoch 12V 460Ah LiFePO4 Battery
Speed Boat with 3x Veroado 350 Pro
Great! Review thanks. 😊
Thank you for the video, great job. I wonder if maybe starting a motor with clearer specs might be a better test, but since the inverter is the limiting factor, it probably doesn't matter too much. And then as this video showed, the initial load can change the starting requirements, further complicating things. I wish I had a better idea for how to predict if a given inverter/battery setup would be able to start a certain motor size, rather than figuring on 2-5x continuous load would equal inrush current. I probably just need to do more research.
Never thought i would miss your videos, where have you been?
perhaps an off-road buggy/gokart
I mean, you are in LV so there's plenty of trails and the weather can be harsh 🤔
I’m hoping to see prices go way down as the price of Lithium has been going down as I last checked it was 76%. Because cars are not selling.
The full check of the lift was after going up a foot, then restarted.
Yes, something will have to change, I agree. If lithium doesn’t get cheaper, the technology might have to change again.
Thank you for the video. Very informative, and I'm really want to upgrade my batteries.
A battery with a decent fuse in it. Even if the BMS lets the smoke out trying to break short circuit current and the FETs go short the fuse will step in. Now I'm impressed.
Yes..thats a game changer really. Ultimate safety.
Yes..thats a game changer really. Ultimate safety.
Which is better Epoch 48V 100Ah 5.12kWh - Self-Heating Server Rack Battery or Signature Solar EG4 comparable battery
Please review an EPOCH “Essential Series” battery, such as the 12v 300AH. I’m very curious how the build quality compares to the fancy 460AH model, and to the Power Urus (Roy Pow) batteries.
Huh, I might even be able to find a place to put that on my boat, most 400AH+ batteries will not fit. weight is... as expected, if it was any less, the AH rating would be suspect. But really, a lot of 100AH LA batteries weight about that much and we have been lugging those around around forever. I had to look up the size cause if you said it I missed it ;) but I have a place for it. The big reason to use smaller batteries on a boat is normally fitting them in. I have 300AH of LA right now, this might make a good replacement for some of it (I need to keep the starter battery). One of those batteries is coming out anyway, 'cause its in the way and I have a lithium to replace it (I use it for the dinghy motor)
Thank you for your time.
Will, i live in the very north east and travel 3-4 months a year. I use but, don't depend on solar as it is minimal up here. I have no need for a battery that drains its self heating its self. Yfi is of no use to me. If I'm not down south, i take out my two litime 230ah Plus batteries and use them in the house.
Hey Mr solar.. iWatch one of your videos from 4 years ago..you hooked controller to the inverter..I thought it got hooked to the battery now I'm really confused lol.. please explain why you do different procedures instead of just how to do it.. you are a genius in electrical solar
My young smart friend, You have helped me soooo much. Lot of tricks to the trade when assembling electronics.
Please help me out. With your help I bought a battery and have settled on solar panels.
Q: I have a 30lb (30 amp??) trolling motor I’m re-wiring with a speed controller with reverse polarity switch. I’m not sure about amps. They are available in 20 amp and 40 amp….which is best for the 30 amp trolling motor. Would the 40 burn it out?
Thanks Dan 64 year old project man😂🤣
I also gotta confess, I Never knew what the ♥️was for…got ya covered. I was just going to thank ya by hitting the heart😂🤣. You’ve given me/everyone valuable le$$ons and you have good communication skills. You don’t assume everyone knows how to even…put a cable on a battery properly. You show every step👍
Can you use any Solar charge controller with battery or does it have to charge with a Victron controller? Or does is just communicate better with the Victron controller? If someone could please answer that would be great. Thank you