Does the Sanaa Manuscript Challenge Muslim Belief in the Quran's Authenticity? | Dr. Shabir Ally
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 มิ.ย. 2024
- The Sanaa palimpsest is an erased Quranic manuscript found in 1972 that was written over with a different version of the Quran. The upper text corresponds with the Uthmanic Quran that Muslims read today. The lower text showed variation, though not to the extent that it significantly alters Muslim beliefs and practices. Dr. Shabir Ally explains that the Sanaa palimpsest cuts away at the popular idea that the Quran has been preserved dot by dot, letter by letter, the way it was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad. At the same time, it removes suspicion in academic circles that differences in the Quranic manuscripts were glossed over when Uthman the Caliph prescribed a single copy to the Muslim world. Dr. Shabir says Muslims can be confident that the Uthmanic Quran we have now was produced in the lifetime of the companions who lived and walked with the Prophet Muhammad and is grounded in scholarly scrutiny and the best representation of what they knew collectively that the Prophet had preached in their presence. Therefore we have full confidence that the Quran is the revelation of God to the Prophet Muhammad.
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The Sanaa manuscript was written by someone trying to memorize Quran then they would erase it and correct it once their Shaikh reviews. This practice is still in existence in North Africa where students who are memorizing Quran would write it on wooden tablet then their Shaikh would correct them from memory. They never use the Quran book, actually Quran book is forbidden on these schools. Anyone can visit these schools in North Africa they are very common.
Do you have proof for this?
Am from Nigeria(West Africa) what you said is true. We still have those schools were student write Qur'an from memory and later their sheik reviews it.
An interesting book for those interested - "The History of the Quranic Text, From Revelation to Compilation, a Comparative Study with the Old and New Testamemts". Written by Muhammad Mustafa al Azami.
I think sheikh shabir ally should take this comment into account when he talks about the Sanaa manuscript next time
@@ahmedmamduh9197 sana manuscript is no different than current Quran there is no major difference ok
Thank you for your knowledge.
Thank you for your Explanation
Dr. Shabir Ally needs to be on the Jordan Peterson Podcast. Please make it happen!
Agreed
Screw Jordan peterson, he has nothing to do with islam and our ideas!
I would love to see Br Shabir with Jordan as well as another with of Br Daniel Haqiqatjou with Jordan.
I think Br Shabir would give great insights on the Biblical and Quranic studies, while Br Daniel would give great insights on societal values and traditional values of Islamic principles!
@@TheRockeyAllen I agree 💯
Agreed I also want that
Absolutely fascinating
Thank you for this important video!
Dr, Shabir Ally and Dr, Shafiya episodes represent the best of enlightening muslims and non-muslims in the knowledge, practice and spirit of Islam. What a great blessing for us as a community to have such a presence in the media to educate and clarify our belief system.
The History of Writing the Early Mushaf (Quran) & The Birmingham Manuscript
Most channels remove comments that contain a link. You can reach the video by placing the above title in the TH-cam search box and Inshaa’Allah you will find it on Al Mudarabah Channel..
@@islamscience9379 How are you enlightened ? Perfect preservation double speak . Do you mean more deceptions ?? Educate before it's to late
An interesting book for those interested - "The History of the Quranic Text, From Revelation to Compilation, a Comparative Study with the Old and New Testamemts". Written by Muhammad Mustafa al Azami.
Excellent discussion which explores all perspectives and lays to rest all polemics.
You have done justice with history and your studies.
Very nice talk. Shukran.
The History of Writing the Early Mushaf (Quran) & The Birmingham Manuscript
Most channels remove comments that contain a link. You can reach the video by placing the above title in the TH-cam search box and Inshaa’Allah you will find it on Al Mudarabah Channel..
Dr Ally, when Uthman's codex was sent to Mecca, Medina, Kufa, Damascus and Basra did any of these codex end up with variations. If so, how is that possible if Uthman's codex was the same to all of these five towns and all artefacts and other Qurans were originally burnt? .Then we are ably informed that the Uthmanic codices encompass all of the seven ahruf. How can this be when the original codex was said to have simply been written in the Qurayshi dialect. So if the Uthman codex was written with one harf in mind, so therefore, does the Sana'a Manuscript reflect that harf down in Yemen.? This is particularly the case when the alleged original templates went to the Hejaz, Syria, Jordan and Iraq.
There were no dots or airabs on the letters, so all recitations could be done with it.
❤❤ I love the explanation
I hope they find more such manuscripts, I think it only validates what we have been believing
It is completely different from you current Quran, how it validate your believes? 😂😂😂
@@kamila3173
The Qur'an that OVER 90% of the Muslims all over the world are using today, and bought or even received as gifts when they did the Hajj or Umrah in Saudi Arabia Mecca,
......are FULL of mind blown numerical and even scientific miracles too !
This alone is enough proof that Allah has definitely protected the Qur'an
Completely different! did you actually watch this video ....
@@kamila3173Do you have a source for this?
@@kamila3173
It matches 95% of the current Quran. These are scribal errors and were probably copies used to learn the Quran in its process, that's it. In order to prove your point, you have to provide the idea that this was once seen as authentic under the Islamic rulership, or else this is nothing but one manuscript with errors in it, and the Quran's preservation was in hands of Uthman and the rest of the closely related companions of the Prophet, which means that whatever they were doing so, was in control of the original reading of the Quran.
Excellent explanation
Dr Ally made 6 admissions in his response to this question on the Sana'a MSS:
1) The Lower layer was indeed different from the upper layer with "significant variations", though he claimed they didn't change any doctrine, theology, or practice. Nonetheless, this is his first public admission that there could have been another Qur'an from that of Uthman's canonical Qur'an.
2) This Sana'a Manuscript was actually "pre-Uthmanic", and could have come from other early collections by Ubay ibn Ka'ab (who lived in Damascus, who had 116 Suras in his Qur'an), or from Ibn Masu'd's Qur'an (from Baghdad, who had only 110 Suras in his Qur'an). Yet, since Uthman's Qur'an had 114 Suras, Shabir is admitting yet again that there were different Qur'ans.
3) That Uthman's Qur'an "accurately represented the preaching of Muhammad". But how does he know, since it didn't agree with the other codices of the companions of the prophet, and it was written 20 years after Muhammad died? Why would this one be better or worse than the other differing codices (Dr Arthur Jeffery in 1935, by looking at the differences between these codices which were noted in the Traditions, came up with 15,000 differences between them).
4) That the oft repeated claim by almost 99.9% of all Muslims today that there has been no changes to the Qur'an, that our Qur'an today is exactly the same, "Word for Word, and Letter for Letter" like that of Uthman's Qur'an, Dr Ally believes is only said by "idiots" and is not "Academic", because scholars know that there have been additions and accretions, and deletions. Yet, again, another admission of the fallacy of preservation!
5) That the Sana'a manuscript's palimpsest (with the differences between the two layers) proves that there was no suppression by Uthman of the final Qur'an; yet he just admitted earlier that the companion codices were suppressed by Uthman, and had he read Bukahri's account of the Qur'an's creation, he would have seen that Uthman burned every codice which didn't agree with his codex, proving that there was all kinds of suppression.
6) That Uthman's Qur'an was produced "With scholarly scrutiny of their collective representation of what they knew Muhammad had said. Much like the Gospel writers (Peter, James and John) recollections of what Jesus said and did, so was the Qur'an written down." What an admission!
Dr Ally is basically admitting in his conclusion that the Qur'an is not eternal, nor is it derived from 'preserved tablets' in heaven, nor was it 'guarded by Allah from any changes' (Surahs 10:15; 18:27; 15:9 & 85:21-22), but that it is nothing other than a document written by men (the companions of the prophet) years after the fact, made up of their "recollections" of what Muhammad possibly said and what he possibly did.
In 17 minutes Dr Shabir Ally has demoted the Qur'an from an "eternal text", preserved by Allah himself, to nothing more than a book like any other book, written by men who wrote down what they remembered another man said or did.
With these 6 admissions, Dr Ally, in one fell swoop, has destroyed the Qur'an's Perfect Preservation.
(from Jay Smith's video responding to this video)
@@lyglo_apologetics yet you've never watched the video: the parchment dates back to *decades after The Prophet* which means it's not Pre Uthmanic milo lilo.
Second, difference in different word order is different to you.
What an ..iot.
if ask you to write down lyrics of song you have remember by heart, how thick the compilatation could it be?
In general, the Quran is preserved in the hearts and memories of its followers through time. As mentioned in the video about the Sana Quran, the differences between the lower layer (original) and upper layer were a matter of Ayat (Phrases) and Surat (Chapter) order or missing Ayat, this can be explained due to the Quran was revealed in over 23 years and not in order. Later and before the Prophet's death (about 3 months), the prophet re-organized the Surat (Chapters) and Ayat (phrases) of the Quran and instructed the writers to do accordingly. So, this is simply explains why the old (lower layer) write up was erased and corrected with the full Quran in its final version ( The Othman Quran). It is really a miracle that the Quran for over 1400s and going, still stands against all challengers and doubters and proves/demonstrates to humanity it is the words of Allah.
Do you know the "God of the gaps" arguement? What do you think of it
"the differences between the lower layer (original) and upper layer was a matter of Ayat (Phrases) and Surat (Chapter) order or missing Ayat," this is saying that this isn't the only difference, maybe look at it again? or look up the translation of the arabic if you don't know the language
The prophet reorganized the surah? Who taught you that? No he didn’t reorganize or ordered it to be reorganized
ddddd Quran was corrupted. Every arabic Quran should be the same but today we only have different recitations in Arabic with different words. Quran riwayah of Hafs 2:184 how many poor people must you feed after missing a fast? Answer: 1. According to Warsh Quran 2:184 how many poor people must you feed after missing a fast? Answer 3 or more.
1 is not the same as 3 or more.... Islam is a fake corrupted religion and Muslims have to lie to defend Islam. Muslims have no shame
How could the prophet reorganize the Quran, if he could not read or write?
How do you know what was in the Uthmanic manuscripts? None have been found.
Just wondering if you can mention the names of people who you claimed were companion of your prophet during his lifetime who were privileged to hear and eventually write the Quran? Thanks.
They are too many to just name
What about missing Surah and verses, as its reported that Surah of Camel is missing from Othmanic copy and also the verses on stoning. Can you please share your views on that ?
93,000 various is significant.
The beard really has a life of its own!
I was unaware of the Sanna Manuscript, Dr. Ally gave an excellent explanation of why we shouldn't fear its discovery, this finding should not shake our faith but should strengthen it, because it is possible that this text was written by one of the companions of the Prophet, saw, Yes, the skeleton is out of the closet, the Sanaa manuscript doesn't conflict with the Quran we have today, it was/is a fascinating discovery . I'm looking forward to ordering and reading Asma Hilali's book.
Everything is a test, SubhanAllah!
the truth is Uthman made his copy and burnt all other copies. the question U should ask yourself is why did he burn them? if the other copies was the same as the one you have today, why did Uthman burn them?
Alli is admitting there were other versions of the Quran floating around, the question is how do you know that you have the ones sent by Allah, seeing as they were different and don't forget ali's explanation for 2 different layers on the sana is a guess.
@@emmanuelayodele7901 Quran was memorize by heart. One person can't change the Quran. Quran is only book that you can memorize. Allah promises to preserved. And Allah did that. Many were able to memorize Quran at that time of Prophet. TBH, the text is not big deal. Quran was preserved through Memorization and was passed from generation to generation since the Prophet time.
@@groundtrader173 but Allah didn't preserve it as he promised. Because if you listen to Ali conclusion he said it that there were other reading like that of ibn Masoud, and that there was a copy that has an underlying text that was clean of which is quite different from what you have today and which precedes the uthmanic manuscript that you don't even have today.
And again if you are very familiar with your tradition Al Bukhari said so many Quran verses were lost and not found for example stoning verse the breast sucking verse were and other verses were lost and not in the Quran today. I can give you the hadith reference if you want.
What's really different in the sa'naa manuscript?
The lower text showed variation, but I thought nothing has been changed in the quran, someone is stretching the truth there.
thank you
The Hafs reading is the more common and used in most areas of the Islamic world. Warsh is used mainly in West and North-West Africa as well as by the Zaydiya in Yemen.
Here are some of the differences:
Quran 2:125
Hafs: watakhizu (you shall take)
Warsh: watakhazu (they have taken)
Quran 2:140
Hafs: taquluna (You say)
Warsh: yaquluna (They say)
Quran 2:184
Hafs: miskeenin (poor person
Warsh: masakeena (poor people)
Quran 3:146
Hafs: qatala (fought)
Warsh: qutila (was killed)
Quran 40:26
Hafs: aw an (or that)
Warsh: wa an (and that)
Quran 43:19
Hafs: ibaad (slaves)
Warsh: inda (with)
These are just a few examples since there are thousands of differences between the two texts and many of these variants contradict each other so they can't be different Qir'aat but these words sound similar to each other and look identical in the early text without dots so they are assumptions made by the scribes who were left to guess what the words meant.
He is the only Muslim talking about sana ❤
From Hafvs Recitation to
Mathematical Miracle of the SAN'AA QURAN MANUSCRIPTf,
Dr. Shabir made me laugh with those comparisons 😂😂 thank you so much another video on this important theme
the more he talks about this issue, the more HOLES he uncovers 😆
Do you know of any copy of the gospels, verified by the Peter, james or John? Dr Shabir doesn't think so, neither does biblical scholars like Dr Bart Ehrman.
Shabir was just giving an example "like if we have copies of the teachings of Jesus, verified by the disciples". You can listen to what he said.
Also, I don't agree with the perfect preservation of the quran narrative either. I'm not here to defend islam.
@@ahmad6384 are you atheist?
@@lyglo_apologetics I'm no longer a believer.
However, even though I disagree with some of Dr Shabir's interpretations, I do appreciate his effort in promoting tolerance among communities. Instead of using an "us vs them" narrative, he tries to show the good in every community.
@@ahmad6384 Could I ask what your main reasons were for not being a believer anymore? Don't want to debate, just curious.
PEACE BE UPON HIM
YES
PBUH
PLEASE BLOCK UNTOLD HATE
in the Quran
It's horrible
Lol😂
Shabir Ali I have seen debates where you claimed dot for dot preservation ? Why you changing on me ?
It is dot for dot preservation. Notice how this Quran found in Sanaa was never publicized or memorized by anyone else but was hidden for more than a thousand years. The only one that is preserved and still being memorized to this day is the one that multiple scribes wrote together who had memorized it. Now it just proves how the Quran was barely changed since the prophets death.
@@destrother_ What it's a palmsist . It's been changed and it's 66 sura no where near 114 . They are scamming you guys but calling us the liars . How sad for Muslims
@@destrother_ But the fact is, there is a Quran, older than and different from the current Quran in circulation. Why? Which one is correct and why?
@@innocentodinkemere4597 The one that is widely spread today and memorized by more than 200 million Muslims. Not the one that has been rotting in an attic that no one knew about. I could write a Quran today and change many things about it but if nobody memorizes it and even knows about its existence have i really changed the words of the Quran or did I just write some words?
@@destrother_ Well popularity and widely used does not mean God. Afterall there are more Christians than Muslims today, so Christianity is the correct way by your argument
Wouldnt you be able to date manuscripts via evolution of writing Arabic?
Dating based on parchment alone seems to ease the burden of positive-dating criteria, no?
it looks like sanaa manuscript has been perfectly preserved. why isn't it in use today?
Sana'a manuscript have different surah and ayat arrangements, minor text and orthography difference
@kaekaeoshi69 so it's not the same as the Koran today. Different arrangement and minor changes are still changes. And wasn't the idea for Koran to be totally proof against changed and minor alterations, as a way to show that it's somehow better than the Bible? What a joke.
@@artifexdei3671 when Qur'an revealed by Jibril to Prophet Muhammad, it was never arrange from the beginning (Al Fatihah) to the last (An-Nas) but based on situation and necessity. That's why Sana'a and uthman manuscript have different arrangement
You should understanding why uthman manuscript become standard version of the Quran, they collected all manuscript version and hafiz (the one who memorize the Quran) to get the most accurate version
So, why Bible didn't get they original version? Like written in Hebrew version?
Even the oldest of Bible was written in Greek hundred years after ascension of Jesus
Why didn't Allah just hand over a finished Qur'an to Muhammed. An omnipotent god should be able to do that
@@kaekaeoshi69But you don’t even have Uthmans Quran. Where is it? All you have today is a recitation of Hafs
Any one can narrate a story, but with proof it is difficult,
I need all the Muslim Scholars come together and explain all of these about preservation of the Quran. yes I am a Muslim. I have learnt a lot. Quran is more preserved then any other religious text book in this planet Earth.
Brother u should see Sikh holy book it’s only one where it’s a fact it’s perfectly preserved cuz we still have the originals
😂😂 the battle of book preservation starts here.@@Dinosauris75
@@Dinosauris75i mean the sikh religion only been around for 600 years and during that time there was a more accessible and efficient way to document things. Quran is over 1400 years old and as mentioned in the video, it was originally transcribed on diverse materials
@@ismael6365 not really in India then we still had to hand write it
@@ismael6365 I was just letting the person above know that the only holy book that can prove perfect preservation in the universe is the Sikh holy book.
We believe God did this so when someone sees this they cannot say to God in afterlife that we didn’t know this was your holy book
Because how will someone answer then
God can ask “so you thought my
Holy book was the one that’s not perfectly preserved? U thought a corrupted book is mine?”
I am Catholic but I have already some knowledge about the topic. The oldest Qurans are Birmingham, Sana, Tübingen if I am right. In my opinion, it's not a flaw in your Religion, when you admit that there are varieties. Our Bible is not so much altered. We have mushafs since 400. The changes are more the selection of the books which changed and still change at other Christian religions.
The Bible doesn’t consider itself to be the literal, unchanged commandment from god. Quite the claim from Muslims when there are nearly 100,000 variants between the collected qurans in the world today. And also zero complete Quran’s from the 7th century.
Exactly! Sahabas would have been the first to object to any discrepancies if at all it would have appeared in Usmanic Quran. Moreso when Bibi Ayesha (RA), Bibi Fatima (RA), Hzt Ali (RA) and entire Ahl ul Bayt along with more than 3000 Sahabas and numerous scholarly Taben were still alive during that period.
Elhamdulillah!
Exactly if any mistake or something went wrong missing verses or words we would have been told about it as the people at that time would have written anything of such things, not only that not the whole of Iraq Syria persia Egypt were Muslims the moment Islam came to them Muslims were the minorities and a lot of scholars Christians zoroastrians and others would have been writing anything against the religion if it has such mistakes in the Quran to discredit it.
Bibi Fatima was dead by then though
@@acesam2314 Jazak Allah Khairan I stand corrected on Bibi Fatima RA.
However, Quran was first compiled into a comprehensive book by Abu Bakar RA who was the 1st Caliph and close companion and father in law of Prophet Muhammad pbuh . As the Islamic Empire began to grow, and differing recitations were heard, the rasm - or consonantal skeleton of the Quran - was compiled for uniformity in recitation under the direction of the third Caliph Uthman RA (644-656 AD). So the consistency was the focus in compilation all through out.
I hope all Muslims on TH-cam would be honest enough to admit it too.
If we are admitting that San’aa manuscript was written by a companion of Mohammad (saw) and now we have Osman manuscript, which one did Allah (swt) preserve? Both written by human companions and humans have accepted one as a standard version. Where is Allah’s (swt) intercession here?
You have to know the History of the Prophet peace be upon him.
Utman was his son in Law, and he knows the Qoran. Zaid bn tabit was his helper throughout his life. He lived with the Prophet and was one of his best scribes....
So who better to compile the Qoran revealed by Allah to Muhammad?
The Usman was khalifa(then) then. And he created some master copies of the official version and send to different states. They followed pixel perfect me method to collect the official version.
And sanas manuscripts was personal version of someone. Who has done some human error while writing, the error is very minor.
What we read today is the exatct of Usman manuscripts in every palces of the world. For this reason the islamic ruling of early scholars and modern days scholars are very same.
Nobody in any time in the history has followed some other version called sanas except that from Usman master copy.
We can talk about the method of collection the whole Quran and write it in a book. There is no chance of any changes in that process.
Allah says in Quran,
"It is not the eyes which are blind but the heart".
May Allah bless us all.
May Allah SWT bless Dr. Shabir for addressing such matters in a logical way. There are several Islamophobics on TH-cam and other social media platforms that mispresent these historical findings and try their best to shaken the foundations of Islam or at least plant the seeds of doubt in the minds of ordinary people, Muslilm and non Muslim. Whomever Allah guides, they will find guidance.
_"Whomever @llah guides, they will find guidance."_ ≈ _"Water is wet."_
@@Lone-Lee I don't know if you got the point or you missed it, my friend. But this would have made sense to you in the same manner as "the sun is hot" or "the sky is blue" or "the night is dark.
@@rafisiddiq6168, my point was that your comment sound stup!d. If you said "@llah guides" it'd have been better.
Also, according to your statement, @llah is ultimately responsible for the faye of d!sbelievers too.
Dr Shabir is not logical tough.Making claims on false and man made stories.There sould be some ground level evidence to proof instead of just using the old fake stories as references. Read Surah Al Imran Ayat 3 and 4 where it is clearly mentioned that the Quran has been for all the mankind ..If he is logical why he is limiting the mankind to exist only 1400 years ago? Does not the mankind exist before 1400 years ago also..Do you think Allah is so irresponsible to reveal his Kalam in such an irresponsible manner and leave everything on people to assemble compile distribute etc etc after prophets deaths.When there is no guarantee that the words said to a person to another remain its exact sense many times, the people may misunderstand, then how Allah has left every thing on the past false stories characters to assemble preserve his words and distribute for all the mankind that cannot even see and know personally those false characters like zaid othamman etc etc.
That's why, *PEOPLE NEED EDUCATION.*
*Especially The Muslims.*
رَبَّنَآ اِنَّنَآ اٰمَنَّا فَاغْفِرْ لَنَا ذُنُوْبَنَا وَقِنَا عَذَابَ النَّارِ
Allahu Ekber!
Just fear and nothing else
What happened to ge quran is preserved word by word,letters for letters? Why would anyone erase the word of God n re write over it for?
The History of Writing the Early Mushaf (Quran) & The Birmingham Manuscript
Most channels remove comments that contain a link. You can reach the video by placing the above title in the TH-cam search box and Inshaa’Allah you will find it on Al Mudarabah Channel..
The dating of the san'na manuscript is not as presented
"A radiocarbon analysis has dated the parchment of one of the detached leaves sold at auction, and hence its lower text, to between 578 CE (44 BH) and 669 CE (49 AH) with a 95% accuracy."
The dating puts the parchment first existed in about a ~90 year period , we cannot say when ink was put to the parchment , only that the animal died during that period. The few decades claim after the death of Mohammed is the Islamic narrative , not something that can be supported explicitly by this dating.
Source?
Sounds like the Islamic criticisms of the Bible manuscripts and their variants is now mute.
Pre-outhmanic? That’s a big deal. It means there were variations in the memorization and inaccuracies in the recording.
Anyone could write a Qur’an. You make no sense 😭 If I write a Qur’anic verse with errors that doesn’t change a single thing in the world
Right of the bat shabir is incorrect, The Quran itself testifies that it had been written down by honourable scribes, therefore the Quran was written down during the time of Prophet Muhammad, furthermore the Quran says that God will compile the Quran therefore it is safe to assume that God ordered his messenger to compile the Quran.
Peace
yes, The Quran itself testifies that it had been written down by honourable scribes. But the Quran does not inform us, WHEN and WHERE it was written down and WHO the honourable scribes were.
The History of Writing the Early Mushaf (Quran) & The Birmingham Manuscript
Most channels remove comments that contain a link. You can reach the video by placing the above title in the TH-cam search box and Inshaa’Allah you will find it on Al Mudarabah Channel..
I stay away from majlis that discusses preservation of Qur'an, especially if they included words like "orientalist", "conspiracy" etc., but not this one... 😇
Top one is Qiraat Hafs and the bottom is Qiraat Duri.
In Hafs Recitation, Arjulakum (being mansub) is linked to washing, while in Duri Quran recitation, Arjulikum (being Majrur) is linked to wiping. Thus, we get two fiqh rulings from the two different Quran riwayat i.e.:
1. Feet are to be washed in wudu.
2. Feet are to be wiped.
Chapter Five: 6 The Wiping or Washing of the Feet in the ‘Wudhu’
The scholars of Islam have differed on the type of purification of the feet required for the parts of the ‘wudhu.
"Yeah, preservation didn't happen, and we knew about it; but preservation happened, and the fact it didn't happen is actually evidence it happened!"
What is this bizarro-land argument?
The Qur'an is preserved but not as the muslim laymen thinks. The Qur'an is revealed to the prophet pbuh in 7 ahruuf (reciting modes/variants). The Qur'an has never been a completely fixed text. To give you a perspective, these reciting modes/variant are 1,5% of the Qur'an. So the critiques are crying about 1,5% of the Qur'an which also is been revealed to the prophet pbuh.
This explains the variations which are mentioned in dozen of authentic Hadith. The variants in the Sanaa manuscripts are found in the Hadith so it confirm what we've already know. Also, the undertext of the Sanaa manuscript is not part of the tradition of the transmission of the Qur'an and seems to be a isolated educational example of a student which contains some commentaries next to the Quranic text as feedback. Asmae Hilali did a extensive research about this.
The Uthmanic Quran was written in rasm [no dots and vowels] Arabic. Why is the current Qurans [ Hafs, Warsh, Al' Durie..._30+] written with dots and vowels.Uthman burnt six agruf[dialects agreed to, by Allah ,as Mohamed explained that there were variant reciting. Who gave Uthman the authority to burn the six variant aghruf??? Where is the six copies which Utheman sent to the Levant. We have the Sanaa and other copies but nothing from Uthman. if revelations stopped when Mohamed died, why did Uthman take it upon himself to burn the words of Allah. Also which copy is in heaven...Hafs, Warsh, Al'Durie etc. Its very confusing and sounds like a scam.
He debunked the perfect preservation claim 😂
The Quran till today was always preserved word for word
lol
@@FishingwithJhoe prove me wrong. Send a verse with other lines for guidance and mercy or are you just making baseless claims
I didnt say anything. I just loled you lol
@@FishingwithJhoe exactly. You guys do have nothing to say except futile claims
@@FishingwithJhoe I love the stupendous stupidity of Christians
The prophet had companions who were educated , why did he not tell them to write it down doing his time? Is there any original manuscript from the 7century ?
He did.....?
The important thing is not process but the substance of the message which is what needs to be evaluated by each individual on its own merits who reads the Quran. The same goes for the Bible.
ddd Quran was corrupted. Every arabic Quran should be the same but today we only have different recitations in Arabic with different words. Quran riwayah of Hafs 2:184 how many poor people must you feed after missing a fast? Answer: 1. According to Warsh Quran 2:184 how many poor people must you feed after missing a fast? Answer 3 or more.
1 is not the same as 3 or more.... Islam is a fake corrupted religion and Muslims have to lie to defend Islam. Muslims have no shame
As a Christian, I couldn't agree more!
@@Draezeth You like the message of pedophilia in Quran ? chapter 65 verse 4 - Tafsir Ibn Al Kathir
The Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate.The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their Iddah is three months like those in menopause.....The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation.
@@muhammadibnwaraqa I think the problem is when a claim is made that something in written form is not corrupted for over 1400 years. You're just begging scholars to pick holes in it, which they will duly do. I would say this channel tries very hard to be truthful and give full and honest answers
@@stevenmarshall5244 The holes started with Prophet Muhammad already Sahih al-Bukhari: Book 66, Hadith 62 Narrated Aisha:Allah's Messenger heard a man reciting the Koran at night, and said, "May Allah bestow His Mercy on him, as he has reminded me of such-and-such Verses of such-and-such Suras, which I was CAUSED TO FORGET!
Excellent! Thank Dr. Shabir Ally for this clarification. Indeed Allah has revealed this (Quran) and He surely pritect it.
Only on thing that worries the Christian propagandists will use this as tool for creating fitnah. But i guess this is what they are trained and paid for.
For those interested in a book source- "The History of the Quranic Text, From Revelation to Compilation, a Comparative Study with the Old and New Testamemts". Written by Hadith scholar Muhammad Mustafa al Azami.
Well explained. Only the Quran will stand all tests of Time. Let all those object to it come together and bring their prove against It. What has come yo light is not a news for the scholars of Islam. The presence of all such manuscripts is validated by the islamic traditions and is also explained. ❤
Brother do u believe that Quran is only holy book that is preserved?
And I agree it’s a miracle if u could prove Quran was preserved but to do that u would need the original copy of the thing u say u preserved to make sure it is preserved
@@9pktheories
You don't have a complete copy and unlike Christians who were prosecuted in the first 2 centuries you had a golden age. What excuse do you have for not having a complete Uthmanic quran? You had cities filled with scribes.
@@OrdoMallius I’m not a Muslim in questioning the Muslims
@@9pktheories
Pardon me carry on
Proof against what? What enlightening claim are you making?
The quran says ....C17V85. "you are given no knowledge of the soul".
So isn't the job of these scholars to gain that knowledge and impart it to you muslims?
The body is going to rot away to dust for sure. Shouldn't you be learning what defines 'you' beyond this temporary body?
Otherwise 'the test of time' means, you'll remain as ignorant.
Why is this women asking the questions?
Sahih al-Bukhari 2658-The Prophet said: "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said: "Yes." He said: "This is because of the deficiency of her mind."
😂😂😂😂😂
Witness to what ? Are you gonna actually read what you are looking at ? The witnesses were for contracts that were done.Most Woman back then before islam weren't allowed to participate in these contracts. When islam came and allowed them to, to account for the lack of knowledge, the witness to a contract deal would be 2 woman or 1 man. Because if women were not familiar with the contracts they could remind each other. Stop being ignorant
Debate between Dr.Jay smith vs Dr. Shabir about sanaas manuscript.
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Such traditionalists are so naive that they never analysed as to what is a book and what are its inalienable semantic and physical features.
It Also completely different if you read in Aramaic
Who cares about Aramaic?
I loved the objectivity displayed here. However i disagreed with the final answer. No you cannot with confidence say it was preserved directly from god unless god himself preserved it. Human memory isn't perfect no part of any human is perfect not to mention it wasn't compiled until years after the prophet passed. There was variations of the text as well. However it may be well preserved. He also mentioned earlier in the interview that it wasn't scholarly to think that it was.
God promised to preserve it in a verse. And the evidence is ample. There are no contradictions in the Quran, nor any missing pieces of law or important information. Further, if things were different or varied, we wouldn't have had had so many numerical miracles in the Quran. Things like a single letter repeated an exact, significant number of times, across 6000+ verses.
@@goblinmoothyou must not have ever read the quran
Wait, so the recorded Quran only accurately represents the preaching of Muhammad? I thought it was the Words of Allah? Now it’s only a representation?
Assalamualaikum sir. Actually I have a question regarding attributes related to Almighty Allah.
My question is that how can Allah be ( Merciful , kind and intelligent) at the same time if major portion of his best creation(human) will be in hell for infinite period of time. Reference Surah 7 ayayt 179
Brother-there is a mystical element in the surah ar rahman.Muhammed(pbuh) himself stated that God's mercy exceeds his wrath.Needless to say-that should speak for itself on our oft forgiving and merciful creator of all of creation aka Allah :)
@@mfnewt Bro as you mentioned Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) stated Allah 's mercy exceeds his wrath but that is for momin (those who believe in Allah) only. Not for Kafir or Mushrik..... And let me tell you corrently in 7 billion population maximum there is 2 billion Muslim and rest 7 billion are non-Muslims . Allah clearly mention in the Qur'an that there is no forgiveness to non-Muslims in the life of hereafter. So 5 billion among 7 billion will directly go to hell irrespective of their deeds which is almost 70 percent of current population. Now Explain me Allah already knew that most of the human will not believe in him still he create human to suffer in the life of hereafter. Now here any rational person will questions the intelligence of Allah .
Mohammed shamsh Tamimi brother brother the secret is Surah ar rahman and what muhammed(pbuh) said-nowhere in that Hadith it is stated only believers. Mercy has no value for a pious person but it has double value for a sinner. Jesus(pbuh) talks about the parable of a religious scholar and a tax collector. The religious scholars thanks god for not making him a thief,murderer or a tax collector. But the tax collector does not even look up to the sky and says to God have mercy for I am a sinner. God blessed the tax collector and not the religious scholar. What you need to take from this is be humble and pray regularly forgiveness of yourself and others and God will forgive you . For in the Quran god is known as ar rahman-the merciful and gafurur rahim(the oft forgiving). Peace be upon you bro.Amen/Amin
Mohammed shamsh Tamimi the hell concept is by itself a means to correct the mischief of humans-needless to say it is more of a purgatory where the sinful soul will be cleansed of sins and reintegrated with the people of paradise. Gods created humans and jinns with free will and scolds them in the verse you shared for misusing the free will to do mischief. Nobody is automatically made for hell rather how they use their free will(in the same verse).and there is something called God’s divine decree which is a pretty complicated topic which ends with the answer that there never was a hell only heaven. Needless to say if you are concerned for others pray for their salvation.😐
@@mfnewt We know we have in this world.....but there was no free will when Allah decided to create human . I mean Allah didn't give option in terms of sending them to earth. If Allah has given free will at the time of creating human then that free will will be worthy. And one more Allah knew everything before creating universe I mean he knew that most of the human will go to hell and remain there forever. Any kind person will choose not to create such a human who will suffer for infinite period of time if that person have that much power. For example in Quran itself Angel asked Allah why he is creating human which will make mischievous things on earth. In reply of Allah says he knew what others don't. But he didn't mention that what he knew.
The Sana'a palimpsest is almost word for word identical to the Uthmani standard. It is an overstatement/misleading when he simply says the differences in the palimpsest are not significant enough to challenge what we believe and practice - it is more accurate to state that the differences are neglible.
There is no Uthmani standard. There is well over 30 different Qurans today and there are 70 differences between the Palimpsest and the Sanaa version. Hardly true to say "that the differences are neglible" when so many Muslims teachers state that the Quran is preserved word for word, letter for letter, and dot for dot.
@@John14.6 All the '30 versions' that exist today conform with the Uthmani text - they differ in their dialectical markings (dots and lines), this largely deals with pronunciation but occasionally results in a word being read differently.
Those 70 differences are largely instances of one letter being ommiited in a word (the dropping of the definite particle 'al') and words being replaced by words that have a similar sound and meaning - taking into account the fact we don't know who wrote the palimpsest, it makes sense for us to view it as mistakes.
In anycase, the finding of the palimpsest actually affirms the mainstream Islamic narrative that mistakes starting arising in the fringes of the Muslim world (such as in places like Sanaa') which is why Uthman r ordered a clear standardisation.
@@Hudhaifaable That is not the truth though is it. The 30 versions broadly agree with the Uthmani text but there are also a lot of differences in words (not diacritical markings because they didn't exist at the time of the Quran first been written). This would not be so much a problem if the statement "Quran is preserved word for word, letter for letter, and dot for dot" had not been made. This an impossible statement to make, not just because it is impossible to copy by hand exact copies over even a short length of time, but what is they to stop someone maliciously making mistakes to justify something that they want to do. Just one variant and the claim fails.
@@John14.6 I'm not sure how well read you are on the topic, but the idea that the Quran is preserved word for word can be understood in light of the hadith on the Quran being revealed in multiple ahruf.
Ahruf are often taken to mean the different dialects of the Arabs. But there is over 40 differences on opinion regarding what the ahruf are (ranging from recitation styles, dialects, style of emphasis etc). So Muslims understand this subtle variation as a result of the ahruf it was revealed in.
In any case, even if we concede (for argument sake) that these variations are indeed a result of poor preservation, there is still no argument that the Quran is, for all intents and purposes, word for word preserved. The variations both among the variants that exist today and archaeological Qurans only point to very occasional words being exchanged for synonyms that sound similar. From memory, the Sana palimpsest also has an instance of a verse being swapped for the one right next to it and of two verses being combined into one. But Muslims cannot accept the palimpsest, as its author is unknown and our sources tell us it was from a time (immediately after the Prophet's s death) when there were many new converts and non Arabs coming into the Ummaah and mistakes were arising in their recitations. Sanaa was really on the fringes of the Muslim world at the time.
I hope this makes sense.
@@John14.6 You must be a Jay Smith fan! When will you people learn, the Qur'aan is perfectly perserved. Variations in readings are allowed in some cases by the Arabic language. Variations in spellings do not change the meaning of a word. If you were to list all the differences between the Hafs and Warsh readings, they make NO difference to Islamic theology or Islamic law. As for 'manuscipts', they are NOT the official Uthmani codex. The recension done by the Prophet's[saw] scribe Zaid Ibn Thabit is purely an academic excercise. Zaid was a hafizzun but used at least two independent witnesses for each verse of the Qur'aan under the orders of Caliph Uthman. Complete Mushafs can be dated to within 100 years of the origins of Islam. Partial mushafs can be dated to within 20-30 years after the Prophet[saw] passed away. I say partial, because we have only discovered some of them. There are many still locked away in libraries and private collections. If you look at islamic awareness, they list 'manuscripts' from the first century of Islam, where almost 92% of the Qur'aanic text can be found. What does the Bible offer us,? a Greek translation supposedly of what Jesus[pbuh] may have said in the original Aramaic.
Before dwelling into other questions, What I got from Dr Shabir response was Sanaa Manuscript is scientifically proven to be authentic. Is that the case?
Regarding Quran, it is not dependent upon any external source for its authenticity. It’s a miracle and passes the test of times wherein God Almighty proclaims “We have revealed this message (Quran) and We shall safeguard it”. Test it on this criteria in the present scientific age and all would get the answers. This is a challenge till eternity.
I feel like Safiyyah Ally is an undercover Christian 😂
Thank You Shabir Ally For your enlightenment and Now Muslims who have no degree in islamic studies And Simply Born Muslims and also also some converted ones who were attacking me and my Bible"" saying word for word dot for dot letter for letter preservation of thr quran "" And telling me your Bible is changed I can Show them your vedio 👍and Im learning a lot About Quranic manuscripts From you and yasir qadhi 👍
The Bible is the most comprehensively documented (manuscripts), supported (archeologically), preserved (nearly 30,000 manuscripts) compilation of historical records and events ever assembled in human history. In all of human history's ancient antiquities, none approaches the validity of the Bible. A book that says that Jesus Christ is the Messiah: That He was and still Is and always will Be. You can believe it.
the Quran is an oral tradition, as the Quran should be recited in specific way called tajweed which is impossible to write ( go listen to any Quran video and you will understand why) , so the only way was oral tradition which led to the Quran being passed from generation to generation by hundred of thousands of reciters tracing back to prophet Muhammad himself, any written manuscript is worthless since we don't know who wrote it, why and how. it could be a he a she or a them, it could be a scholar a student or anything, anyhow hundred of thousands or even millions of Muslims memorize the Quran since the time of prophet Muhammad with it's exact way of recitation, a mysterious we don't even know who wrote it document is totally invalid. that's how historians deal with history and that's why a huge portion of our history is false
it cant be done without some written document. your argument is similar to sanskrit rigveda being preserved by brahmins since millions of years
a mysterious document that can't be traced to anyone does not pose any validity at all, and it's the nature of the Quran to be passed orallMuslimentirety@@suhelmallick
Surely Prophet PbUH could not provide a single mushaf to be passing down. Ayahs was send down in a random ways and its position in the 'book' can be at any position according to instruction (Gabriel a.s.). No body can make up a book until it is ensured that the message receiver have passed away or no further ayahs will coming. A single mushaf only can be collected in a single volume once Prophet PbUH died.
As far as the meaning of message don't change,
All of you need to watch this video of David woods ( Islamic Apologetics Ep 4 The Argument from perfect preservation)
Carbonating upper estimates are not a problem but the lower estimates are. That would put Sanna before Muhammad was alive.
The preserved story of the koran is. Challenged
I do not agree for one minute that this sana manuscript was originally a text for teaching students... Simply because to write on such an expensive piece of material just once, suggests it was meant to be kept not rubbed off and rewritten on again, I would have expected to have found multiple writings, all of them erased, all on different layers because it was a school textbook, but instead you find 2, one at the bottom and the final 1 at the top and therefore this is not a textbook, it's a record Based on what they had at the time, which undermines the idea that the Quran is preserved.
People who memorize Quran can memorize Quran without reading text. In this case, They were many who memorize Quran at that time of Prophet. And when he died, it was already preserved in people's heart. This is the reason till today, no one can change Quran. Someone from Saudi, Pakistan, India, Africa, or America can recite Quran exactly as everyone else. And at that time of Prophet, most of Sahaba memorize Quran exactly as Allah promises. I hope you understand.
@@groundtrader173 What are you talking about, no one can change the Quran... there are 36 different versions of the Quran today, to date in the world, All of them have differences and the Sana manuscript shows the differences between the older version you have today, but because uthman is supposed to have destroyed all the early versions, you have no idea what the earliest one looked like.... How can you watch this man admit the Quran has been altered And still say the opposite, are we watching the same thing?... Look at what he is saying and think about it.
@@leecooper3852 Quran has been preserve. My advice to you guys: Ba aware of YT Sheikh. They will say things just to make Westerners happy. But, in their heart isn't what they mean. Is like Sheikh will say positive things about Homosexuality just to fit the narrative. But the reality isn't as you think. Some of YT Sheikh, are using Liberal approach just to make others happy. IMO
@@leecooper3852 Dr. Shabir didn't say it was altered, he said that there were other versions. It Doesn't mean tht the Quran we have today (Uthmanic) wasn't there at the same time you know.
@@aiva729 the question is, what was there before uthman redacted the Quran to suit his own ideas and why do we not find uthman in secular history....he was a national leader.
Thanks Brother for confirming my conviction of becoming a Faithful Wanderer. All Wanderers are not Spiritually Lost ones. In fact we're effective Spiritual agents of Change challenging the norms of Society from a religious standpoint. I thought Islam was the truth but your espousal of ancient text gives myself unconvincing belief in my own trueness that there's one God I serve with a complete Heart. I don't get sidetracked by tactics of divisiveness towards the trueness that is Faith. Faith as you might well know being a Scholar as I am in Sacred writings is the assured expectations of the things hoped for the evident demonstration or manifestations of realties although not so beheld. In other words I walk according to the ordinances of Faithful Integrity with my eyes focused on realties so presently around me as a cloud of faithful witnessed follower's according to the trueness of Godly enriched principals centered on non hypocritical, unconditional and unconventional Truths exemplified in LOVE.
so what you left islam?
Now Islamic scholar start to question the authencity/reluability of Sanaa manuscript and some said it was written by lay person to justify the differences between lower and upper layer of palimpsest. Carbon dating is also problematic as it do not give one date but range of time from 578 to 669 CE, furthermore it only predict the age of animal skin which may be many2 years before the texts were written. In other word Sanaa Manuscript cannot be used for pro or con arguement regarding preservation of quran. The questions remain unanswered whether the preservation did occur as:
1. Original mushaf kept by Hafsa was missing
2. Original Othmanic mushaf was missing
3. Othman burn the rest of quranic texts that he used as references to compile, therefore muslim after him wont be able to know what was the quran before him.
4. While compiling the quran, one of the most important companion of prophet who is also expert in quran ime Ibn Masood was not invited into the compilation team, that is strange.
Yes, quran was preserved partly by memorization but who can confirm that Huffaz pre Othmanic era memorized the same quran with post Othmanic era. Knowing that the main reason why Othman wanted to compile quran is because a significant different in the recitation discovered between grps of muslim from different locality. The concept of ahruf and qiraat are still not well understood even by Islamic scholar.
And now more and more muslim aware that Quran is not preserved word by word, dot by dot as what was previously believed.
While your argument is fine-Jesus(pbuh) said that blessed are those who believe and do not see.Look at the Quran from a linguistic standpoint and scientific standpoint where you will find your validation of 1400 year old document. Peace,Amen/Amin
The most important thing is not the authenticity of "word by word" but the entire context as a whole.
To me, the Quran is still the "Message from Allah" as conveyed to the prophet.
Take a look at the Birmingham manuscript, which predates the Sanaa manuscript and matches the current Quran.
@@gobah Burmingham manuscripts only represent small percentage of Quran, it is not a complete quran.
@Alan huge Difficult to tell and to confirm unless the entire quran is available. Another issue is the Burmingham manuscript is product after Othman and not pre Othmanic mushaf.
so multiple korans are not an issue then?
Quran riwayah of Hafs 2:184 how many poor people must you feed after missing a fast? Answer: 1. According to Warsh riwayah 2:184 how many poor people must you feed after missing a fast? Answer 3 or more
10:34..Skeikh Shabir Ally: "...That (Sanaa Manuscript) becomes a "different" witness"...
...or more accurate...that(Sanaa Manuscript) becomes a witness to the oldest Quran being different...
📜≠ 📖☪✨
So what's the difference ...between variations in the Injeel of the Christians and the earliest pre-Uthmanic Quran of the Companions (Allah be pleased with them)?
...both Books have variant texts, that existed before either texts were finally standardized, under consolidated religious/political power....so, with due respect...where exactly is "the Miracle"?
With regards to Holy Writ:...
Uthman(Allah be pleased with him) is the Islamic Authorized Version of "King James".
..but unlike Uthman (Allah be pleased).. King James of England's political power just didn't extend to the places were older, "different witness", "unauthorized" biblical Texts existed...(Egypt, Syria, etc.)
...and apparently, Uthman's (Allah be pleased) power, also didn't quite quite extend to Yemen...
💡Hey !..maybe the Sanaa Qur'an was actually hidden up there by pious Muslims, to protect it from Uthman's "Bonfire of the Quran-ites" ?☪📜📜📜📜☛🔥...
Textual variations ? I was taught that the Quran has been preserved, word by word , letter by letter, harakat by harakat, that the current Quran was received by prophet Muhammad from Jibril, so no miraculous preservation, lately Ali Dawa confirmed what Hamza Tzortzis said previously , " no scientific arguments in the Quran, what is next ? that Prophet Muhammed is not mentioned in the Christian and Jewish BIble ? I feel so disappointed that Iman are teaching what they supposed to (:
Evil hearts and evil minds what kind of book will this write? Sir
As a non-Muslim, I have always been told that the Quran used today is the absolute words of Allah. But if there are slight differences in the Sana'a pallimcest, which contains the absolute words of Allah, or do both come close, but neither absolute?
I read the sanaa differences my self it is only commentary on the verses them selves for example , the original one says (tell the them ) in the sanna one it says (tell them ) and it adds the reference to who it is saying them (the jews)
@@gsxii1292 interesting. my initial guess was that this palimpsest was used back then as a support during memorization. could this be the case?
@@stati5tik possibly, the majority of the differences however were the order of the verses. which doesnt really matter
@@MoonzzieThen Muslims should stop criticizing the Bible about getting corrupted. The Bible doesn't have any doctrinal differences... Very minor spelling errors.. Scribe issues just like this manuscript..And many different Christian denominations follow unique practices just like the differences between Sunni, shias etc.But nobody who's a Christian has a basic doctrinal difference! Idk why it's ok for the quran and not acceptable for the Bible. Genuine question 🙋
this manuscript was never used as a quran. nor is a quran rather it was most likely used for memorization and practice the quran is perfect, complete and has no mistakes or spelling errors or scribe errors. this is the difference between the quran and the bible @@auxshy
Manuscript is of the author of the Book .
إِلَّا تَنصُرُوهُ فَقَدۡ نَصَرَهُ ٱللَّهُ إِذۡ أَخۡرَجَهُ ٱلَّذِینَ كَفَرُوا۟ ثَانِیَ ٱثۡنَیۡنِ إِذۡ هُمَا فِی ٱلۡغَارِ إِذۡ یَقُولُ لِصَـٰحِبِهِۦ لَا تَحۡزَنۡ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ مَعَنَاۖ فَأَنزَلَ ٱللَّهُ سَكِینَتَهُۥ عَلَیۡهِ وَأَیَّدَهُۥ بِجُنُودࣲ لَّمۡ تَرَوۡهَا وَجَعَلَ كَلِمَةَ ٱلَّذِینَ كَفَرُوا۟ ٱلسُّفۡلَىٰۗ وَكَلِمَةُ ٱللَّهِ هِیَ ٱلۡعُلۡیَاۗ وَٱللَّهُ عَزِیزٌ حَكِیمٌ
إذ قال: ""لا تحزن؛ "إن الله معنا" يدل على أن الله سوف يمشي فينا بشراً مثلنا، لقول النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم: "ما وسعتني سمائي ولا أرضي، ولكن وسعني قلب عبدي المؤمن". "
وفي قلب هذا العبد سيظهر الله حسب الجسد في صورة الإنسان.
(9:40) If you do not aid the Prophet - Allah has already aided him when those who disbelieved had driven him out as one of two, when they were in the cave and he said to his companion, "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us." And Allah sent down his tranquillity upon him and supported him with angels you did not see and made the word of those who disbelieved the lowest, while the word of Allah - that is the highest. And Allah is Exalted in Might and Wise.
When he said " "Do not grieve; indeed Allah is with us."it indicates that Allah will walk among us as a human being like us, because the Prophet said that Allah told him " Neither My Heavens nor My Earth contain Me, but the heart of My believing servant contains Me."
and in the heart of this servant Allah will be revealed according to the flesh in human form.
------ ( The Interpretation of the Glorious Qur'an --Tafsir Dihyah by , Shaykh Nasser Dihyah Sambi ,On Sura 9 , Ayat 40 ,StreetLib Comoros Publishing , 2002)
The situation with Ibn Masud was not the only problematic one. The matter with Ubayy, who was also praised by Muhammad as one of the most trusted Quran reciters, is also worth noting.
Muslim tradition suggests that Ubayy served as Muhammad’s secretary and one of the earliest collectors of the Quran. In fact, he was called “the master of the reciters of the Quran.” Among his virtues was his ability to memorize lengthy passages. He was able to recite the entire Quran in only eight nights. A man of his stature must have possessed firsthand knowledge of the revelations proclaimed by Muhammad.
He must have been able to distinguish the authentic text from forged Quranic passages. It would make sense that, if one were to seek to collect the Quran, Ubayy’s insights would have been considered.
Unfortunately, Uthman did not consult Ubayy’s copy of the Quran. The two copies were different not only in the order of the Quranic chapters but also in their content. Umar-who became the second caliph and was the first to suggest the collection of the Quran-is reported to have admitted, “Ubayy was the best of us in the recitation of the Quran yet we leave some of what he recites."
The inevitable conclusion is problematic for Muslim thinkers. On the one hand, if they claim that today’s Quran is the exact copy of the original heavenly tablet, how can they reconcile the reports of the mishandling of the different Qurans during the rule of the early caliphs? One way is to dismiss all of these reports as inauthentic, but then the entire tradition would be in jeopardy, as the corpus of the trusted hadith collections would collapse. On the other hand, if Muslims admit that Uthman distorted, forged, censored, or manipulated the Quranic text, then they must conclude that the traditional claim that the Quran is completely preserved as the exact copy of a heavenly original is incorrect.
(Ayman Ibrahim - A Concise Guide to the Quran)
People who memorize Quran can memorize Quran without reading text. In this case, They were many who memorize Quran at that time of Prophet. And when he died, it was already preserved in people's heart. This is the reason till today, no one can change Quran. Someone from Saudi, Pakistan, India, Africa, or America can recite Quran exactly as everyone else. And at that time of Prophet, most of Sahaba memorize Quran exactly as Allah promises. I hope you understand.
"...the entire tradition would be in jeopardy, as the corpus of the trusted hadith collections would collapse"
Well i believe the viewers of this show already know that a lot of hadiths are problematic and inauthentic, much more than some traditional scholars thought.
@@groundtrader173 Oh, it is easy to understand... the Koran is the result of suppression, caused by Uthman himself. DR Ally confirms this in his video.
@@groundtrader173 that's is just an unverifiable claim
If "They were many who memorize Quran at that time of Prophet" is true, why should Zaid search for verses from many kinds of sources? Why Zaid said "By Allah, if he (Abu Bakr) had ordered me to shift one of the mountains (from its place) it would not have been harder for me than what he had ordered me concerning the collection of the Qur'an"
Even the best of reciters (Ubay & Ibn Masud) had different version that Uthman's/Zaid's. And why Uthman don't consult them, even reject their version. Was Uthman better than them?
@@horseradishpower9947 Hahaha. You're trying hard. If you really wants to study Islam go place like Mauritania, Egypt. Stop this nonsense "The Video said"
Well done Dr, but now you are assuming that what you have today is accurate?
Why would you have the exact, preserved, word of God written down then scrubbed out and the ‘exact’, ‘preserved’, ‘word of God’, written over the top???..mmmm..
11:47 How come scholars always new this but never shared with the public :) How can muslims claim that Quran has never changed while we have many different accpeted versions. If there is one Quran how are you accepting conflicting manuscripts. It means one of them was always wrong or changed meaning that you are accepting a changed text. And lastly muslims always claim that many muslims memorized the whole Quran before it was written which should mean that there should have been people double checking the text from memory.. somehow. None of these make sense I am sorry.
So there are more Quran versions then one. 😂
It shows the quran was not preserved...the upper layer contains uthmanic text and the lower suppressed layer is preuthmanic. Showing that the variation between text of preuthmanic time and uthmanic time has 15000 variations....
Also, why did Uthman appointed 3 other none scholars with Ziad bin Thabit whom are known to be sons in law to uthman....why not ibn musa, Ubay Ibn ka'b and ibn mas'ud but his three son inlaws ? They were not scholars....all these sahabas hhad 116,110 and 114 chapters respectively different from 114 chapters of uthmanic quran today. If the quran is recited differently in Damascus from the one in Baghdad and Basra when they still have different chapters...
So people in the past don’t have journal where they write the meaning of the Quran ? I def do that .. I add Addionaks notes to understand the meaning even better lol people do anything to critique Islam
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If the Bible (old and new testament) could be preserved intact, the question doesn't arrise of nonavailability of writing stuff, as such it had to be preserved by heart...
I'm a Christian minister. The Old Testament and New Testament were not preserved in tact. In fact the Bible has over 20,000 errors in it.
No one has ever claimed that the Bible is perfectly preserved. As we know most of Genesis was the stories that Moses told but in reality those where not written down until much later or lost to history.
@@bngr_bngr the sad part the people don't know that.
@@napolien1310 it’s a similar problem that the Quran faces. As most of the disciples of Muhammad memorize parts of the Quran. Many of them died in battle and those parts of the Quran died with them.
@@bngr_bngr yes parts but we know of the few who already memorised it as a whole not only parts.
That's why I said what I said the ones who knows of these missing verses would have came out and said the Quran is false, because most of the companions have travelled out of Medina and settled in Yemen Iraq Egypt Syria far away from the center of authority and would have teached their students about this.
And now more and more muslim aware that Quran is not preserved word by word, dot by dot as what was previously believed.
True from historical position.
Will all muslims forever accept that if quran is that old then it has 30 facts about
Zechariah
John
Blessed Mary
Jesus,messiah
Which are in gospels or close,then you Must accept all as true
Wait!!! If they had already memorized the Quran, why did they need to go around to collect different fragments of transcripts of the Quran? Why not simply transcribe what they’d memorized? It seems that they weren’t confident about what they’d memorized. Either the memorization of the Quran was incomplete or differential.
It wasn't about confidence, it wad about standerdization. Even today, millions memorize Quran from cover to cover. The thing is, Abu Bakar wanted to standerdize the Quran so he odered all the scattered extracts, tht had been written by other followers, to be gathered and to compile them in one single, standard book in an organized manner
It almost seems as tho u are looking for things to worry about when there is probably something more relevant to you to worry about right now. Do you have an insecurity about the complexity of human memory? An insecurity that, we will always be unknowing compared to that which created us? Do you feel like your memory is enough? I hope you benefit yourself!
@@ziaulhasan6406 You’re really not addressing the issue here. The process of standardization would not have required the collection of scattered parts of the Quran if all the transcripts were the same and that the same Quran was memorized by the people of that time. It’s quite reasonable to conclude that the collection of different fragments of the Quran was an attempt to reconcile variants in the written and memorized texts, and arrive at some kind of consensus on what should make it into the Quran and be kept out of it. The implication here is that men were left to fix the Quran, the supposed direct speech of Allah. These are facts that even the hadiths attest to.
The Quran used by most Muslims today was canonized in the 1920’s.
@@tripplejay9810 I’m not sure about what you’re trying to say there.
@@delpthepath127 bro, you didnt get my point. Scattered fragments would create more room for errors and adulteration in thr future that's why the authority/government Abu Bakr ordered all the fragments to be collected because those disorganised fragments would cause confusion in the future. And more importantly, u are assuming tht god would preserve the Quran by any miraclous way. But god really doesn't work tht way. God doesn't just shine the sky to make the time a day rather he had created the sun to make it a day. Abu Bark, Uthman, the scribes and the millions of muslims remebering Quran are all part of god's scheme to preserve Quran. I hope u get the point.
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*The first & fore most commandment for*
*محمد صلى الله عليه واله وسلم*
*was IQRA*
☝ *اقرا باسم ربک الذی خلق*
*QUESTION*
*what was the second & third commandment ?*
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What happened to Othmanic copies of Quran? There's no real reason those should disappear.
All religions have their authentic manuscripts preserved. Sana manuscript can't be regarded as authentic. Nevertheless, oral transmission is possible which is inherently unreliable.
I want to coment Mr Jay Smith`s lecture about " What is the Manuscript Basis for the Qur'an"
1) Why comments are not accepted in his lecture. TH-cam inaktivated that funktion. Isn't it strange? one of the reasons was security. R u kiding?
2) If you are sincere about what you are saying you don't have objections to any comments.
3) He (mr Jay) said the muslim scholars wrote the Quran and the Hadith 100-200 yrs after the death of prophet Mohamed (SAW) and can not be trusted.
4) He wanted everone else to trust and believe what the non-muslim authors he named wrote in the 20th and 21st century. What is his basis to say manuscripts written in the 7th and 8th century were false while what his authors wrote in the 20th and 21st century is true. Is that logic? Certainly no. That disaproves whatever he said. whatever hen said is non and void.