Did the Celts Sacrifice Humans?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ธ.ค. 2024
- Josh and Beau discuss what we know of some of the major celtic gods.
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![ภาพนี้ก็ฮาเหมือนกันนะเนี้ย #7 SS9 [ พากย์นรก MEME.EXE ] | easy boy](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MFDRhuT4RAg/mqdefault.jpg)
An uninformed take on the Ten Commandments. "It is for you that thou shalt not murder" is more accurate. The taking of human life is not to be done with unjust motives and is largely not left to individual discretion. Capital punishment by religious and secular authority is deemed righteous (at least in the abstract) in both Christianity and Judaism.
But certainly not every crime deserves capital punishment.
@@agsilverradio2225 Of course not.
Fun fact the original 6th Commandment was "thou shalt not murder" apparently the two Hebrew symbols are very distinct it was changed to kill when the bible was translated into ancient Greek
True. Enoch Powell once corrected a C of E bishop on this point.
A big difference between murdering and lawful killing.
@@raypurchase801 Ray fockin PURCHASE, it don't matter as the CC had its own rules called simply the 6 commandments of the CC before the whole Church was subverted by bibletardation over 1700 yrs. Fun fact the New Order Mass is basically 100% bible based after the last ecumenical (masonic Lord is god) council.
@@hindenpeter2.04 Is that you, Clem?
@@raypurchase801 No no no no, yes-jim
@@hindenpeter2.04 I love your name.
My favourite Brian Griffin quote:
"I'm not racist, I watch tons of black porn".
10:30 We actually have a rich history of "giant people" in Irish history. The gene that's responsible for gigantism, the highest concentration of it in the world is in Ulster.
That's where the "giants of Ulster" come from.
There's a book in Oxford that traces the lineages of Irish "giants"
They where just a tribe of big people. And they were completely enslaved by the southern tribes.
I wonder if Liam Nesson is a descendent of the Ulster Giants? he's tall and has a pretty thick frame.
Reminds me of the red haired giants
@@TheVampireFreddo Yea, they were called Formorians. Red head giants of Ulster.
@@johnnyjohn-johnson7738 Could very well be, they're genome lives on. In fact everyone who has red hair in the world owes it to them.
Moses did not ban all killing - it contains the death penalty after all. Murder is what is banned - which has a specific definition.
I've read all the Asterix and Obelix books and the never sacrificed anybody.
I'm pretty sure they wanted to sacrifice Cacofonix lol
I SUMMON MY GOD CARD, OBLELIX THE TORMENTOR!
4:33 To be fair; the oldest translations are "Thou Shall not *Murder* " and the Catholic Church likely changed it as far back as the Council of Nikeia cuz reasons...
We who are about to die salute you. Gladiatorial games deaths were a kind of human sacrifice to Jupiter Capitolinus and to Caesar Augustus embodied in role as Pontifex Maximus.
“A number of religions in Ankh-Morpork still practised human sacrifice, except that they didn't really need to practice any more because they had got so good at it. City law said that only condemned criminals should be used, but that was all right because in most of the religions refusing to volunteer for sacrifice was an offence punishable by death.”
- Terry Pratchett, Guards! Guards!
I'm re-reading Guards! Guards! and literally just came across this quote again. He really knew how the human race operated. :)
I'm pretty sure that's the last time you hear about religious law holding any sort of sway in Ankh-Morpork; it rather has the scent of old school Omnianism.
It also seems like the sort of thing both Vimes and Ventinari would oppose, if for different reasons... and Ventinari would be more willing to do so if he can frame it as Vimes being 'unreasonable.' And one of those little victories he allows the man to keep Vimes pointed in a useful direction.
@@boobah5643 Though it is still considered "suicide" to enter a Dwarf bar and order a short.
I recommend checking out the "Sláine" graphic novels if you haven't already read them. Sláine was a comic series that started in the early 80s in "2000AD" and was heavily based on Celtic myths and legends.
@@nullface_YT Now there was a weapon that let your opponent know you weren't messing around. Horrible, horrible thing...
@@thedisassociatephilosophy Did you ever read the Grail War series? In that one Niamh had reincarnated as the Crusader Simon de Monfort and Sláine had to deal with the fact that the woman he loved was now physically a man.
In the middle of the 80s these comics were dealing with these sort of issues with more maturity than the modern so-called "progressives" who think they're the first to ever look at these subjects.
The brits still do it...
Tavistock. Rotherham..
200,000+ babies
Indeed.
Not the Brits, but the institutions you mention are Marxist. So it isn't Brits, but the woke & Marxist conspirators.
@@Ganymede559 and the others do nothing
@@KLanio-lr8yv Westminster doesn't unfortunately. Criminals. Most people in England can't afford to visit London, so don't take it out on us. I couldn't even tell you where tavistock is located specifically.
Example of human sacrifice in England Manchester Arena 2017 they were sacrificed to the great god Tolerance
Sad but true in the aftermath nobody on any watch list was deported nobody was removed from the U.K. we just lit candles and changed our Facebook picture for a week and the bbc ran story’s of Muslims being looked at funny
The commandment is "thou shalt not *murder*"
The Crusades were defensive wars.
As I stated in one of your previous videos on the Celts, Strabo and Augustus were of the Poseidonian school of greco-roman scholarship of the time who were extremely biased against the Keltoi to the point of demonization, and outright plagiarized his earlier work on several occasions. Rome was still resentful for the thrashing that Brennos and the Senones gave them in 387 bc after Quintus Fabius Ambustus and his brothers broke their oaths as mediators between the Senones and the Etruscans. Brennos sacked and occupied Rome for over 70 days, and Rome never forgave the humiliation.
The highest sacrifice the Druids would make was that of a Bull. The Traditional relationship between Celtic cheifs and kings were that though the warriors held supremacy, they held the wisdom of their intellectual caste in the highest regard as the Druids were the keepers of the Word, and the Word was the Truth. While there are documented instances of cheifs breaking their oaths to the Druids, the cultural norm was such that most kings would take no action without first consulting the wisdom of those who acted as the bridge to their Divine Ancestors. There are several instances were a Druid could stop the engagement of armies and force a settlement, they were not only priests but judges, astrologers, lawyers and augurs. The Romans woulds sacrifice thousands a month at their height in the colloseum to appease Mars.
The fact that you did not once include a source from the Alexandrian school shows how shallow your approach to this topic was. Would you treat the Anglo Saxons in such a one sided manner?
Vae Victis
@@johnmcnutt8089 Yes that is what Brennos said. My post isn't a cope against a superior martial force, but a criticism to subpar materialist treatment that Beau, Josh and Carl have given the Celts over four videos. The Celts would carry the skulls of respected adversaries, and armies would respect the outcome of ritual combat between champions, but the coverage that the Lotus Eaters have given is lacking.
@@greenfrogbad I am in agreement with you. You take my comment to seriously
@@johnmcnutt8089 I apologize, I've being too immersed in sarcasm as of late, you didn't deserve that reaction.
@@greenfrogbad now worries bro
4:34 The 10 Commandments say Thou Shalt not MURDER, not Thou Shalt Not KILL. Get you facts straight.
A bit off topic, but while watching a documentary about the Aztecs I said that any culture that would sacrifice human beings is a savage culture and my Lefty friend got so angry. It was very funny which only made him more mad.
The left sacrifice the future of children for their ideology all the time. No wonder they were offended.
@@Reiman33 I do agree. Richard Nixon is one of the worst presidents ever not because of watergate or MKUltra (both are bad but LBJ did stuff just as bad before Nixon) but because of opening trade with China. America its ideals have been downhill ever since.
Mel Gibson actually downplayed the savagery of the Inca people, but also let your friend know that Oxford University was founded before the Aztecs rose as an empire
Non-western good, western bad 🤖
@@ulaznar These days you definitely can make that case.
They're still at it, sacrificing women at the moment!
? What?
Righto, here we are, Celtic Scholar ™️ coming through! Let my “useless degree” count for something (though I think it very valuable to have a degree which helps me to reconstruct an ancient European culture nearly lost and beyond saving).
The Celts were a grand and noble Indo-European people, and your ancestors too by the looks of you.
Most are unaware that the Romans and the Celts were both part of the Italo-Celtic group, they were more closely related to each other than anyone else, anywhere. They were cousin peoples. This is why Latin was so easily and well adopted in the Celtic regions, whose native languages the Romans called “bad Latin”.
In fact, many, if not most of the “Roman inventions” people think of today can actually be attributed to the Celts. There are actually too many to list here, look it up, but we might mention briefly that archaeology has confirmed that they had roads before Roman occupation, that they invented the chainmail later adopted by the Romans and for all intents and purposes, the same can be said of soap (from Celtic “Sapo”) and, well, THE BARREl. The Roman helmets…
The Romans themselves of course sacrificed people in a ritualised death cult which eventually evolved into the Gladiatorial arenas (that Gladius, “sword”, but a loanword from Celtic *Cladiwos, or Cladios, “cleaver/cutter”). They probably inherited the practice from the Etruscans, whose influence can also be felt very strongly in the Celtic Iron Age culture. That would be from aprox. the 750s BCE onwards, but you must remember that the Celtic languages were already formed and had begun to diverge into subfamilies or “branches” even in the Bronze Age, at around 1700 BCE.
And of course, the Celtic progrative was to sacrifice criminals, IF this was ever done at all. Human sacrifice may have been quite and exceptional ritual and it probably was not common - certainly not as common as the killings in the Gladiatorial arenas.
Here is the most simple and easiest way to understand it; the are the native Europeans of Western Europe. They are us and we are them.
While the Germanics (the English are actually half Germanic and half Celtic) are those of the North and the Slavs are those of the East.
The South is a more complicated matter.
I commend you for being knowledgeable about the Celts. For I am also fascinated with all of Ancient European history and I love finding possible connections between them. But I have to say you got so many things wrong about the Romans.
Yes, it's safe to assume that all indo-European cultures committed such sacrifices at one point but in Rome, long before Julius Caesar it became one the worst tabus.
1. Gladiators rarely died in the arenas. It was a very expensive business where the last thing you want is to need to find and train new gladiators. At the arena, it was considered the gladiator had a 5% chance of getting killed. Most gladiators fought 2 to 3 matches each year, and they usually had a three years contract. Marcus Aurelius ordered gladiators to use blunted weapons, to minimize the risks of serious injuries. He likewise introduced a law requiring that the young entertainers who danced on tightropes should be given safety nets.
Those who expected to die in arenas were criminals which parallels your point about the Celts. The difference being that the roman punishment was secular in nature. It was not done to appease the Gods but just to get rid of criminals. They were either thrown against animals or forced to fight in mock naval battles. The famous phrase ''Ave imperator, morituri te salutant'' is referenced only in two passages and was uttered not by gladiators at all, but by naumachiarii, the fighters in an exhibitionary naval battle.
A somewhat stronger argument you could have used is how Vercingetorix met his end at the steps of the Temple of Jupiter Optimus Maximus (even though it was only done to humiliate an enemy of Rome)
2. We can only speculate how much influence the Etruscans had on both cultures. Because we know very little about them. One of the few things we do know is that they did not speak an Indo-European language. They did not have a common word for a cutter.
3. Gladius Hispaniensis was indeed based upon a similar Celtic design that they had encountered during the Punic wars. It was not a ritualistic weapon used only by gladiators. It was used by the Roman army first.
4. A roman helmet, the most iconic one was inspired by a Celtic design, true.
5. I have never heard anyone claim Romans invented Soap. It's well documented they thought of it as barbaric it was much preferable for them to smear their bodies with scented olive oils. They used a metal or reed scraper called a strigil to remove any remaining oil or grime
@@theicepickthatkilledtrotsk658 To be fair, he only claimed to be a scholar of _Celts._ It's all too easy to think knowledge of one thing equates to knowledge of others, especially superficially related things.
Sucking the king's nipples? Zat feel normal?
That is the correct understanding of human sacrifice. It's not much of a sacrifice if it's worthless to you, now, is it?
I don't know. You hardly hear of them sacrifice pillars of their community (like the chief or the chief's eldest son). Instead it is conveniently always the loser leeches. It seems like they just killed incels and male femenists to me (instead of suffering them).
There are some now that point out "Thou shalt not kill." is a mistranslation. "Thou shalt not murder." is likely a better translation. And it makes sense. Even after Moses was given the Ten Commandments God had them kill plenty of people to secure the promised land. And Jesus never identified armies or soldiers as sinners that needed to repent or anything. Hundreds of years ago, a lazy scholar was doing the actual translation that we use to this day and thought "Well, not kill, that's not exactly right. Bah. Who cares. It's good enough." Jump cut to hundreds of years of arguments.
Historically correct no group of people are perfect.
I just want point out that in Hebrew it's "Thou shall not murder". Murder meaning to take a life immorally or illegally.
Wail in old king James English said "Thou shall not kill". Which at that time the word kill was no different then murder. But now kill means to take the life of person.
I think it was the Mayans who performed what's known as 'self sacrifice' wherein a member of the Maya was selected to be sacrificed to the Gods to bring rain, and such sacrifices were considered immense honors for the sacrificed and their families. This would be the sort of sacrifice the Celts were purported to have undertaken by the Romans, and it was this sort of sacrifice that the Romans and Greeks would have found abominable: the sacrifice of a 'civilized' human to curry favor with the Gods.
The Aztecs, perhaps more similar to the Romans, performed tributary sacrifice to their Gods to venerate them by ritualistically killing Others as a sort of ultimate flex. The Romans had their Triumphs and the Aztecs had their semi-regular sacrificial 'taxes' levied from surrounding conquered tribes. Not to say the Aztecs didn't practice more somber self-sacrificial ceremonies, just that they were exercised in more dire circumstances, as it required the sacrifice of an 'actual' person and not a conquered barbarian.
Hey Lotus Eaters? NOT THE BEES!!!🤣🤣🤣
Mistletoe pollen. "wouldn't have ingested it" uh. Thats, not really how that would work. pollen is airbourne. I mean maybe hes eating the blossoms. Mistletoe was thought to be medicinal. But don't confuse the BERRIES, with pollen,or blossoms. And it only really causes indigestion.
I understood the implication to be that the presence of it in the air would contaminate food and be transferred to the stomach as a result.
And looking it up, they're not mistaken. The correct statement is "Some mistletoe pollen was also found in the stomach". Another source claims "Griddle cake laced with mistletoe".
Most cultures did. While human sacrifice is evil, it is also true that humanity owes a debt of human life for their sins. Men know this debt must be paid, and would rather pay it with the life of others than their own (although this doesn’t actually pay off the debt). That’s why Jesus had to come, to be a perfect sacrifice to pay the debt of our sins.
Truth.
Cool story bro
"Thou Shalt Not Kill" is a fundamental mistranslation. The Hebrew is "Loh Tirzach" -- which would more accurately be rendered "Thou Shalt Not MURDER." And the rest of the Torah actually lays out what constitutes murder as opposed to other forms of killing. This is why the Torah simultaneously condemns murder and sentences the murderer to death, condemns murder and then mandates warfare. All the waffling about that point which modern Westerners consider so profound purely stems from the failure to accurately translate the Hebrew...
It’s a strange concept because it’s both dehumanizing but also highly valuing a person to be sacrificed to the gods.
'The Wicker Man' is a v good film (original version). Apparently, the rituals depicted are taken from Fraser's 'The Golden Bough', but how authentic that is, is open ro question.
The Romans accused all their enemies (except the Greeks) of human sacrifice and complete barbarism. How true this always was is highly questionable. It is notable that when the Roman Empire retreated, the territories that were now 'barbarian' again had no Roman Games. They just ceased to exist in the now non-Roman territories.
And the whole point of the film is that Lord Summerisle is attempting to revive lost traditions, so he was relying on the sources available to him.
"Kill" in the ten commandments better means premeditated murder. Wars, executions, and self defense are exempt, as far as I understand.
Wars and exicution are grey arias, and/or can depend on context.
...
Is capital punishment or war actually justifyed for the offence(s) in question?
...
In the case of war, are warcrimes being commited?
Probably yes. Romans were not as religiously intolerant as most people think they were for fates that predate their rule(for newer religions it was a different story). They had a zero-tolerance policy for sacrificing humans thought. That's why they went so hard after some religious practices of Carthaginians, Celts, and Jews.
I've seen your comments lots of times on all the best, about-to-be-banned channels.
A great name, very memorable.
I expect you made Trotsky's ears burn.
@@raypurchase801 Thank you.
@@theicepickthatkilledtrotsk658 I visit for the videos, linger for the comments and grin at our adopted names.
I think them going after Jews had more to do with them believing fake news. Saint Justin the Martyr (Christian) basically said in a letter to Emperor Augustus (who knows if it ever even reached the emperor) basically just that. That the Romans were believing fake news that the Christians did human sacrifice.
I mean in the New Testement Christ calls out all sorts of things wrong with the Jewish rabbis and scribes practices, but human sacrifice isn't mentioned at all. It seems to me it would if it were true.
The Roman problem with Christians wasn't that they worshiped a different God, but that they didn't offer sufficient deference to the Roman ones, as I understood it.
Well, that and some social issues, since Christians had definite opinions about infanticide and slavery; it was only later that they picked up the hypocrisy that allowed either.
Yeah, I was going to say, if you're going to mention rhinokopia, you need to do a piece on Justinian II. Great video, guys!
If criminals are sacrificed is it considered an execution
How is human sacrifice comparable to killing a conquered King?
I love hearing about the good old days 😁
Also, "Your ways are wrong." says the people who threw babies into the street to die.
So does this mean I can start using the conquistador sacrifices will stop meme but with Anglo saxons and Celts instead?
"Moden day France" lmao
every time i hear 'buderrm' my brain goes 'du doooo du du du'
AY UP LOTUS EATERS
Brehons didn't have the power to issue a death sentence. For example, they had no choice but let St. Patrick live, as he clearly knew enough about Irish law to give all the right answers. In the Middle Ages, the highest ranking Brehon was considered to be the equal of the High King, they even ate from the same plate at banquets. The druids would've had the power to overthrow a ruler.
Read about a three-fold death for the punishment befitting kings who violate all three sacral divisions of society.
"All the people of Goole..."
Wtf did J Caesar have against the sleepy borough of Goole? 👹
So, how many people did the Romans crucify? But that wasn't "human sacrifice".
No, just fun.
Firstly you have to understand sacrifice is not the correct word. Sacrifice is our word that we use which actually has nothing to do with the topic being discussed. The word we use obviously has a different connotation than that of the original intention being discussed
It's called subversion and it's implemented through the language you now speak
Then do tell me what word would be the right one in this instance.
@@rayvg7709 disposing abundance
Personally I do believe they did. Human sacrifice was typically common In places with resource scarcity or horrible criminal behavior.
The Irish thing, we were mostly a goddess worshiping people. A lot of our old traditions are fertility/maternity related. We are all children of the goddess Danu, and the highest authority of the land is mammy. (Still to this day)
The "proper" English were much the same. The tribes of Albia and the Gaelic tribes had much in common.
Ah yes, classic earth mother wiccan horseshit.
That's a healthy way to look at ancient human sacrifice. Of course we need to take the Roman accounts with a grain of salt. There's bound to be anti-foreigner propaganda mixed in. But it's also rather pointless to claim it didn't happen at all. I think it's pretty clear humans sacrificed each other in prehistoric times and after. As you say, the most valuable thing imaginable to give to the gods. We are all descendants of humans that performed human sacrifice. I rather doubt it was as rare as you're thinking however. For the Celts or any other group. Not finding a lot of examples is proof of nothing. What we find in the earth is less than a pinhole to the whole image. And sure, dropping them in the bog would be one manner of disposal. I'd argue many more were burnt afterward like so many other offerings. Leaving no trace at all. Great discussion!
The Anglo-Saxons were sacrificing humans until the 800s.
Beau (is this the famous "Bo"?) over there acts like Christian Bale in American Psycho when Paul Allen's card was shown over this subject, and whenever details are discussed. Like he doesn't really want to listen to Josh go on. Bored by it, even. Did he know all this already because he secretly IS the man from the bog risen from the dead? We mere mortals who do not have premium will never know the significance of Bo's disdain.
TheJewminati covered the strange horse ceremonies in Ireland
Bog means god in polish just a coincidence i guess.
Also, it means God in Russian, probably most Slavic languages as well.
Nothing new under the sun
I hear what your saying, but if we don't get some virgins on the altar soon, the Sun won't rise tomorrow...
Moses himself ordered the Levites to go and kill among the Israelites as a punishment for the golden calf! He had just been told "thou shalt not murder" and then ordered murder!
It wasn't murder, though. Murder is clearly explained in the Torah. That didn't constitute murder by those standards.
Capital punishment isn't murder. Officially sanctioned by the de facto leader of the Jews, Moses, is capital punishment.
2:00 Hot Fuzz vs The Wicker Man or w/e? really?
yeah our ancestors sacrificed people to our pagan gods: SO. FUGGIN. WHAT.
I'm glad it took Beau less than a minute to say it... although, that said, if you're tossing a way a life. it may as well be one you've taken in battle. Win-win-win, another mouth you don't have to feed.
Roman propaganda then, Roman propaganda now.
The BIBLE says "thou shalt not murder" not "thou shall not kill".
The Jews sure did
Hahaha what a comment. Crucified the one they been waiting millenia for then proceed to wait another 2000 years in denial
@@benhowell5790 I am pretty sure he is talking about their Talmud which is infamous for many things. One is that there are versions where Isaac really is sacrificed.
They went from sacrificing goats, to God's son, to children
@@theicepickthatkilledtrotsk658 If there are versions of the Talmud that has Isaac being sacrificed. How does the story go forward? Since Isaac was what led to the next generation of Hebrews. Does Abraham have another son? Does Isaac get resurrected. That doesn't really make sense knowing the rest of the story.
There is one human sacrifice to Yahweh in the old testament though. Jephthah in Judges 12:7 sacrifices his daughter. He vowed to sacrifice whatever came out of his house first. Which turned out to be his daughter.... There isn't any other human sacrifices done by the Israelites atleast according to the Bible. Atleast to Yahweh. The Bible does like to say people who worshiped other gods did human sacrifices.
You just got the vid demonetized thx
humansacrafice is the logical end goal of all paganisms
That's the stupidest thing I've read today.
Germany still does
The Mirror tries to do archeological history.. half facts and silliness
The people of Goole. XD
paint their face red to represent Jupiter, but whatever.
The chad yes.
Judaism banned human sacrifice >3000 years ago. Europe took a while to catch up.
Sure Jan.
@@greenfrogbad YRU ghe
@@themossad why are you mad?
@@greenfrogbad TheJewminati covered the strange horse 'ceremonies' in Ireland, you may want to check that
@@themossad I'm not seeing it in his videos or playlists.
"stra boe"
Sounds like you are simping for human sacrifice just a bit gentlemen. I don't think the Romans are hypocrites at all, difference between widespread human sacrifice and executing a conquered foe. Also thou shall not murder is different from thou shall not kill.
pagans used human sacrifice to feed their gods, romans used human sacrifice for their entertainment. They are no the same!!!!
Thou shall Not Murder.
Accidental and death by combat are allowed.