Ubuntu Core Desktop (Based Entirely On Snaps)
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2023
- A few weeks ago, it was announced that Ubuntu would be offering a new all-Snap, immutable desktop edition by next year. You can test some very early images of Ubuntu Core Desktop in a virtual machine if you want to get a very alpha-quality look...
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Note: Ubuntu Core packages everything as snap, even kernel :)
This is basically the linux version of "Windows Core OS (Based Entirely On UWP)", yes, that does exist. Some think that Windows 12 will have it by default. I never worried about it because on linux (arch), I have full control over my system but with this new trend of "extremely secure" systems via immutable distros, containerised applications with flatpak/snap, by time more and more distros will adapt to this trend which I really don't prefer
its not like this is a "new trend", its just that now desktop is starting to catch up in terms of security/reliability compared to other branches. iOS, Android, MacOS have all had immutability for years, and especially in Apple's case has been utilized to great effect in security and reliability. This isnt even to mention the server space which has ran immutable systems for decades atp. Its not a bad thing that now systems are more reliable and usable and with containerized apps via toolbx or distrobox the ammount of freedom you gain is a suprising ammount + flatpak for gui apps,
Having to "root/jailbreak" a computer like a phone, is becoming a possibility now. Maybe it's okay for others, but for me it's just too unappealing. I do get the point of immutable distros, you probably shouldn't be deleting binaries from /usr/bin, but it should be an option for power users
@@Proferk have you ever used an immutable system before? What would you need to "jailbreak" them for?
@@paradoxial4246 No I have not, what I do know is that it restricts you from messing with system files. I am happy to be corrected if I'm wrong
The transition is happening via expansion of options. There will always be arch and vanilla fedora which is mutable. There kind of has to be for the purposes of development
Hey DT! Love the video. You do great content, and we all appreciate it! I personally enjoyed the look at immutable linux distros. I'm trying to do the same on my Arch home system. If you were to make an immutable distro, how would you do it? Would you consider doing a video covering an install and config of an immutable arch system? Because I for one would love to see that.
It is really interesting and i vote for it. People just seem to hate it without taking in consideration all the factors that a standard ext4 or btrfs installation is very EASY to break and corrupt.
Specially with a terminal
I hope canonical will make a simple and easy backup and snapshot system with this release of ubuntu core snap version
Cant install other desktop environments, or applications outside of snap. It's really really sucky.
I imagine that the core utils don't have correct permissions, as I believe they are also inside of a snap, that probably is not configured correctly yet. It's very interesting idea, and the fact that one could package a whole operating system in snaps and it (kind of) works is quite amazing.
They want to compete against Fedora Silverblue and GnomeOS those are based on flatpak. I think it's a good idea, except that snap still needs to improve, but if they go for it and finally focus, they might get it right one day.
@@Eyuphuro NOPE
I won’t even bother with Fedora given red hat’s closed source policy.
@@jonny777bike The Fedora project is just _sponsored_ by RedHat. It's the upstream source for REHL. All of the shenanigans that RedHat did only applies to those that work with the most stable downstream distros, like Rocky/Alma/RedHat Linux
Isn't Gnome Os just peak of the Gnome shell? I remember on their page it says it's not intended for daily use
Came here to say essentially this but also to point out that Silverblue hasn’t exactly “taken off”. Cool concept though, maybe immutable OS is the future, maybe not.
Hey, DT!
Your flower wallpaper has a bug! Lol)
DT you can give the virtualbox-machine 256 MB Memory outside of the settings .(after the 128 MB or dont set in the settings).I learned all by your lectures.Thanks a lot!!!
Live up to see CLI unfriendly Linux distro!
Looks like you get the full snap experience from this distro XD
Can you log into a TTY?
Ubuntu, chaotic evil edition
Red hat is more evil at this point.
@@basilcat3111 True
@@basilcat3111IBM owns red hat, gnome, systemd, flatpak, etc.
@@basilcat3111 yup. at least canonical it's still free at the moment (well there is the problem of close-software snap though)
@@no_name4796 Snap is open source. Just the server backend is closed.
Btw immutablility only is a thing on the root dir so and you have full control on the home folder
You can't write anything to the system because it's literally a read-only system. That is the entire idea behind an immutable OS.
That doesn’t mean you can’t write anywhere, just the OS itself is immutable, you still have cache files, tmp files, config files, personal documents etc. Usually /home, /etc, /tmp, /root, /boot and atleast parts of /var are writeable for various reasons.
Yes, it's to protect idiots that shouldn't be using Linux in the first place from their own idiocy.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 i think there are developers out there who also like the idea of an immutable OS
@@juipeltje What you think is not proof that such exist.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 I am a software developer, and I use NixOS -- which is apparently also considered an immutable OS?
Immutable doesn't really mean you can't change anything -- just that the changes you make exist on a separate 'layer' so that you can move between versions really easily. You can also get advantages like concise expressions of system configuration can reliably point back to the whole system -- which is valuable when you need to build something actually robust.
Hey DT! Why do you use Linux-lts over linux or linux-zen?
I'm gonna guess because it's easy, stable, and just works.
Might actually use Ubuntu Touch if they integrated the Core Desktops immutability.
i did some googling snapd is open source so the snap backend is open source the server snapd calls to is closed source
I'd like a slackware based distro that is centered around flatpaks.
(Yes, ik about Zenwalk, but it has some flaws with its netpkg tool)
Calculator literally took 5 seconds to load, now granted it's running on a virtual machine but on average snaps are a lot slower to load.
because snaps require a separate filesystem to run. it is slow the first time, but it (should) be faster the next time.
but yeah if you are using a desktop linux, not a server linux, snaps will suck away a lot of ram, cpu and hard disk space.
also flatpak has them beaten on the fact that they install shared dependecies only once, while snaps will reinstall the same dependency on every single package which requires it
@@no_name4796 flatpak only has very basic packages for shared dependencies, for example gtk/qt. Everything needs to be duplicated for every package.
@@no_name4796 have only one copy of gnome-42-2204 installed on my Ubuntu box
Any duplicates you might'vr had are here for package version rollback option
The boot screen gives off Windows 11 vibes - I quite like Ubuntu Core, looks cool. Its nice to see Ubuntu switching it up.
Are you going to Snap at Ubuntu, DT?
Its no good for my use yet as I do still need apt, I have messed with these.
Hey DT, would you be interested in trying or reviewing Easy OS.
I am about to try it and I wonder what your opinion would be.
damn your internet speed is insane, it takes me over 10 minutes to download 1GB!!
Awesome, love snaps!!!
I don't really understand who this is aimed at. I can understand making a container type thing for packaging stuff with really specific versions of software as dependencies, but the entire thing...
I can even understand an immutable system for some devices, but not for a desktop. If there was some middle ground, where the system data was immutable, but you could override it with a partition that had higher priority than the system so you could still make changes to config files if required.
The idea is to have a more stable system with less maintaining required by both users and distributions. For example imagine a new gnome version comes out and the gnome foundation releases an official snap and you could just update to that without it affecting the core system below it or the application layer above it. The basic idea is to have like half a dozen kind of parts that make up your system(kernel/driver layer, coreutils layer, security layer, window stack/base DE layer, utility layer, application layer) and have several versions of each and allow people to built their system Lego style.
For example:
1. LTS Kernel snap
2. Coreutils + Systemd
3. SElinux+firewalld
4. Wayland + latest gnome
5. Cups Server + xyVPN client
6. Applicarions like gimp, Firefox etc.
Some basic system, and you would be able to go into each category and change out the entire stack with minimal fuss. For example change 4. to x11+plasma and 3. to AppArmor.
@@sebastianbauer4768You can have wayland + plasma too. Otherwise well explained comment.
When it matures, I can see myself recommending something like this to someone who doesn’t want to use windows but also is not tech literate and just wants to be in the GUI comfort zone. Nearly unbreakable, just works, and has a reliable library of software to use. A friend possibly who is scared of the terminal and is afraid that they will break linux
as far as im aware, immutable distros are for making tech support easier, making sure everyone in your company is running the exact same hardware so that their software works exactly the same way. It's also useful for home users who don't want to risk bricking the system, like if you're installing linux for your children are grandparents. There is real value in immutable distros, but they aren't for anyone watching videos about linux.
@@wyattsunkel1048 The thing is normal Linux is good enough. Sure you need to be somewhat computer literate to set it up (if you were to set up windows it would be the same), but once you've set it up it's all good.
I've used Ubuntu in a couple of cases, recently a family member was having constant issues with their Windows machine, I built a computer and put Linux on it for them, zero issues. As a bonus I set up a wireguard client on it so if they do have problems I don;t have to physically go there to fix it or update it. So far no problems to speak of.
If all they do is use a OS as a boot loader for a web browser and to to print things and a few light weight office software tasks it's not going to break itself.
The most challenging part of it was getting a Windows piece of software running on it through WINE, the software in question was for a DVR recorder to view and get recordings from it which uses a proprietary Windows software only. I had to get WINE from official repo, the one on the Ubuntu repository was outdated and had bugs viewing the video feeds, the newer version works flawlessly with it. WINE has been getting better over the years.
So in this case I would have been stuck with the Ubuntu SNAP packages that don't work, that would have been great.
a lot of people are angry here but don't forget this is a server os like debian & bsd you can run is as your main pc but it is still a server os
discussing immutable distros, i ran into this distro called BLEND OS thats arch based and i guess uses docker and similar tools to containerise apps. its supposed to be a hardcore immutable distro. i opened its settings and got an option to create some containers. within each container i get the terminal that allows me to install anything. whatever is installed, shows up on the distro apps menu like as if its locally installed. i was just wondering if its possible to use this docker tool on a clean debian or arch installation to create containers and run apps on them as as to secure the whole system from any damage caused by installing and uninstalling stuff. this stuff has got me curious. just a request, to make a video on docker or also blend os and its internal functionality if thats not a problem. thanks for all the amazing videos.
Why are you so concerned with it? I've never break my system like that in recent versions of Debian.
@@ibaqueroberto1942 just fo fun and learning sake. I know Debian is great. By the way debian dpkg did start throwing errors after a few updates which were not fixable.
Hey, the nome of this "docker tool" is distrobox, you can install in any distro.
ubuntu surrounded by a force field. 😁
"Only 1.7 GB in size, this should only take a few seconds to download"
Damn son, what kind of connection do you have??
Ubuntu Core Desktop 24.04 Sluggish Snapper
Seems the system is a bit broken. I use NixOS, and the point of an immutable system is that everything EXCEPT your home directory is read-only. So something is going on in there. I don't think that being unable to endit the bashrc or run sudo should be the intended behaviour.
IoT and snaps? imagine waiting 30 seconds for your microwave to open the menu
It makes sense for some things like sensors etc
@MichaelDustter I had to write a uni presentation for iot devices there’s companies like Samsung selling useless smart fridges then there’s devices for disabled people sensors for farmers automation tools for factories, this technology has its place.
Oh yeah, we're rebooting the system and cold-starting everything on every interaction
@MichaelDustter snaps can be suboptimal but they are turbo hard to break, they are used in servers and guess what a smart microwave needs to be as idiot proof as it gets. If you were to make a Linux microwave as stupid as it sounds using snaps would probably create less problems. Imagine telling your grandma to Sudo apt update her Samsung smart microwave because the food timers dependencies are not in sync with the rest of the system. The more I think about it the more using Linux in a microwave sounds rtrdd.
@@user-fr2fm3ri3wno one would be updating snaps or arch on a microwave. It would have a nice custom GUI with an update button that downloads the latest verified working version of a package set. Doesnt matter if it's arch or snap
Bro, literally right-click on the desktop to get the Display settings. How have you not learned this?
he's a keyboard user not a mouse user so it stands that he probably wouldn't know. It's funny I know.
so cool
😄 👌👍
Im good
Good words but your compressor is distracting.
Sounds like living in hell. To each their own.
I don't understand the hate behind snap. It gets the job done. It's powerful than Flatpak as it's not limited to only GUI apps
It's bascially homebrew but from canonical. The only thing I hate about it is the closed-source snap backend and no way to host custom snap repositories
I'm sure the hate it gets is for a reason
Oh yeah,l love snap
It’s a bit ironic that Linux distros are finally warming up to something that FreeBSD has been successfully doing for decades. A stable base and rolling release applications.
I am glad that more distros are experimenting with different ideas for package and config management. It’s long overdue. But I question Canonical’s decision to use Snap when the rest of the Linux ecosystem has standardized on Flatpak and Appimage.
It's Canonical. Are you really surprised?
This may be news to you but I have been using Gentoo Linux for 20 years now - one reason for that is that it has been both extremely stable based on a rolling release philosophy - so there's no irony there whatsoever.
@@clocked0 Only that they keep doubling down on their own mistakes. You would think that they would have learned by now.
@@terrydaktyllus1320 I used Gentoo myself for around three years when it was at peak popularity in the early 2000’s and I think it’s better than Arch. But I still prefer FreeBSD’s ports and mix of binaries and source over portage because it’s easier to maintain yet still gives you a lot of flexibility.
I also prefer the idea of a stable versioned base system with rolling release applications.
Are they tried to block debian backport packaging from debain/control, debian/rules by turn into snaps to hide packaging formula or something?
Was it to hard to enable 1920x1080?! (No hate)
tell me you have never tried linux without telling me
Imma just predict that it really sucks
Not impressed with the alpha version. I don't like snaps. I loved Ubuntu when I was new to Linux but I see no reason to use it now. Debian, Arch are my go tos. Fedora is good but I feel resentful towards red hat. I know they need to live but I can't help but feel like they betrayed the open source movement.
People actually move away from Ubuntu becos of snaps. So this will seal it.
Good to know ubuntu satanic edition is an official flavor now
So it proves that ubuntu is really evil so i have to stop using it 😂
yeah basically
I wouldn't touch this with a 10-foot pole, ubuntu either!!!!
I'm impressed with linux mint because they created linux mint debian edition also because they know that ubuntu don't stop and they lost their mind
I can even more impressed if they base their system on Arch instead of ubuntu
Now Fedora and Ubuntu got issues in 2023 so i have other choices like Arch linux and OpenSuse
Imo the arch version of mint is basically just endeavourOS (which I'm running rn, with hyprland and loving it)
@@Skelterbane69 wow, i also running Endeavor OS with Kde plasma and lts kernal and i also like Reborn OS
Endeavor OS
Reborn OS
are my favorite Arch based distros
@@NADEEMKHAN-sj5hn Never heard of reborn os, gonna have to check that one out
@@Skelterbane69 they two are considered as the pure arch with easy installation
Endeavor OS provide his own theme but Reborn OS has Arch Default's
Cachy OS is a new distro and it is also a great distro
One thing i like about these 3 distros compared to other is that they provide online installation of any desktop environment so i can install any desktop with the one iso file instead of download multiple iso of (Arcolinux)
Arcolinux also considered the best arch based distro but it is bloated
I myself shift from Arcolinux to Endeavor OS
I liked and use to run Arcolinux in the past
Hurray for immutability becoming the norm
Nixos nixos nixos
Dt why do use vbox instead of virt manager?
Eeeeeewwww
This is a horrible dystopia
Can snaps just die already?
No.
If that shit ever gets near my pc, then im gonna kill it with fire (and arch)
FreeBSD have been doing this with Jail for years ...
To Jail with you!
@@iPig_ I care 😈
I will stick with Fedora and their proven immutable system.
Repeat after me: snaps are made for servers, not desktops!
SNAPS ARE MADE FOR SERVERS, NOT DESKTOPS
*me running Blender on a server*
Not sure where you heard that, but it's incorrect.
@@fullsleevetats Snaps work a lot better for servers, where they can be very helpful. They are almost useless for desktops. It doesn't matter what Canonical intended, that's the reality of the situation.
@@anonymous_opinions1924 As with the previous reply, also incorrect. Snaps are used all over desktops, servers, IoT devices and other platforms. They're _designed_ for everything.
And me that I stopped using ubuntu because they defaulted firefox to be a snap hahaha
The chance of me using 1 Ubuntu, 2 SNAP or 3 an immutable OS is less than 0%.
Does that mean you actively uninstall it from other computers? Lol
I'd like the superpower to uninstall them from other peoples computers!😂
You're also not the target audience for Ubuntu Core.
A ridiculous idea, propelled by fashionable groupthink. And, no, none of the alternatives to Snap would ultimately be any better as an idea.
Agreed. Immutable systems are completely pointless (at least for the foreseeable future).
No thanks, won't ever be using Ubuntu from here on out, ever.
No way to install other desktops, no way to install other apps, no way to enter terminal commands, no customization, slower, more spyware.... basically windows.
"no way to install other apps"
Didn't think this channel would get so political lol