Road To Eldora: The Device | How Kevin Rumley & Jonathan Davenport Dominated Dirt Racing in 2015
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- Kevin Rumley takes us behind the invention and implementation of 'The Device', a piece of race car engineering that saw him and driver Jonathan Davenport dominate the Dirt Late Model world in 2015.
WATCH MORE ROAD TO ELDORA: flosports.link/3QVbfLm
Website: www.floracing.com/
Subscribe: bit.ly/2p4VBzF
Get the FloSports iOS app: bit.ly/FloRacingiOSApp_9
Follow FloRacing
Facebook: / floracing.tv
Twitter: / floracing
Instagram: / floracing - กีฬา
Kevin Rumley, MECHANICAL GENIUS!
It tucks the LR further under the car in the corner. The axle is more square (to the desired direction of travel) through the corner than the rest of the car. Eliminating friction from slide and promoting drive through and off the corner. It helps the LR tire bite. Look at the 2015 PDC video from fairbury. Nobody has ever came out of the corner faster than Davenport did in 2015. It didn’t look real in person. He was absolutely flying.
I think you nailed it. A solid axle housing with the movements of these suspensions can be counter productive in a hurry. When the LR tucks in on power, the geometries go crazy, not to mention the mechanical aspect like pinion angles. I thought it was a pull bar/j bar mount. But when he said it basically disconnected the LR from the rest of the car...well that just set my brain on fire
So basically it's inducing the effect of rear steering? I always thought they were inducing rear axle angle the way they transform into the corner.
Reading all this, I take this talking about a Rayburn or swing arm car? A 4 bar car has natural rear steer.
Looking at the device with the limiter chain. I could see it would work when the chain went tight.
I think your correct but it's more like TRACTION CONTROL as " the device ' stretches and why the shock on it. Whatcha think ?
@@MrNater41may I ask ...
As " the device " stretches it works like TRACTION CONTROL & why a shock on it ??
I love this. My grandfather changed a lot of rule books in pavement sprint car racing. Current sprint cars still haven't caught up to what he was doing.
Who was your granfather?
@@samjohnson1061 Harry Campbell
Ok,Thanks.Thought maybe it was Wally Csmpbell out of Trenton NJ.
stop lying
@@borismcfinnigan3430 stop being a douche bag
His mouth moved a lot, but did he say anything?
As "the device" stretches
it works like TRACTION CONTROL . That's why a shock on it.
The thing that I’ve always felt like is a problem.. And I didn’t have data.. No cameras. None of that when I was building/crewing cars.. Is the transition the tire has to make from side bite to forward traction.. A tire can only work in one direction at a time.. So our setups were worked to where the car transitioned from sideways traction to forward almost on its own.. Which meant you couldn’t truly charge the corner, you had to roll it in. If you can time/control LR traction better then you could solve the problem I feel like I see.. 🤷🏻♂️.. Great video.. If you watched the Davenport video it answered some things.. In my opinion anyway.. Not everyone’s mind works the same though.. Thanks Kevin.. You’re definitely the Chad Knauss of our sport. You work hard and understand what’s happening. It’d be awesome to work with you if my health would still allow..
Not true, look into "traction circle". Tires can be loaded in multiple directions.
@@staggerbite interesting.. Went to a Hoosier class years ago they were teaching something totally different.. It definitely wasn’t from a formula one perspective. It’s been 25 years. I no longer even have my notebooks from back then..
It makes the left rear compliant to the race track, when your car is under acceleration the left rear suspension is to rigid because it’s on the bars and it’s against a droop chain, it shocks the tire and looses grip, that’s what he talking about he is trying to solve legally.
i used to run lower air pressure in the lr on our sprint car than everyone else besides one guy who was fast. you would come in from a run and the lr would look pract flat. on a non beadlock rim and never had an issue with the tire breaking the bead.
Mark Richards complained about this, and in the previous Bloomquist video Flo posted, Richards complained about one of Bloomers chassis, then there’s AK race cars front axle. I’m sure there are plenty more examples.
Mark complained because they weren’t smart enough to figure out what was going on there…
I saw a version of this on a NorthEast style Modified. The crew said it’s something they’re trying.
Professor Rumley putting his expertise to use. Great innovation 🤗
Woo Pig! Ready for this weekend
As THE DEVICE stretches it works like TRACTION CONTROL & why a shock on it. How'd I do ???
An (auto-balance)adjustable traction for rear suspension. changing the valving in the shock for different tracks.
It would be the whole dyno with FOX dual adjusting high low spd knobs ride heights for stacks of springs. Resivor holds pressure changes done in seconds.
They outlawed solid front axel from one kid though absolutely ridiculous.
My guess is the problem is to try and have some form of suspension on the left rear so it isnt locked solid when the car is up on the bars.
Simple works best over cold roll steel. Water brine for Rockwell oil quench for case harden
Thank this man for the droop rule
Manipulation of leverage ratio while running. If that is right the Fox shox with live valves is roughly the same thing in the shox. ATV length 18.5" 18.75" 11-12" of travel
Just watch the cars side by side. One with it and one with out it and you will know the problem and the solution. But, as he said there isn’t a way to legally do what’s needed. Also the hard part is to mechanically lock it when it needs to connect back. That’s why it is hinged and has the slots with the groove. The groove locks it.
i wonder if it sounds clumpy like a shotgun...
not that it would be heard over engine exhaust noise.
but if ever built into an EV racer..
i believe the sound of this would be recognized.
If Rumley was willing to sell it to his competition, we'd see this on every late model today...lol
I'll make an uneducated guess that the problem is as drivers go into the corner they let off the throttle a little which causes the suspension to droop less making the spoiler not generate as much down force and grip in the turn. The device probably makes it so that the car can stay up on the bars at maximum droop even when the throttle is lifted.
That’s what Brake floaters are for. I bet the issue is the ‘shock’ and loss of traction when the LR comes to abrupt stop at the end of its travel.
Its suspension added to the "suspension" that has been repurposed as a jack. @@pagesautorepair3937
Think about what the man said the affect was.......
They broke the rf a arm.........
He said it @ 4:08 ...."you could hear the pitch of the engine change"......it's traction control or multiplier @ the left rear.....that's my .02
See my reply above; it absolutely has to do with maintaining a higher engine RPM through the corner and thus getting off the corner faster.
Rumley is a G!
Forward Traction!
Mr. Kevin Rumley is a genius!!! And he coupled with Jonathan Davenport is a winning combination every time!!🏁🏆🏁💞🤗💞🙏🏻🙏🏻 LOVE THIS 🏁🏆🏁💞🤗💞🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻GOD BLESS Y'ALL FOR SHARING THIS EXCITING BLESSING WITH THIS DIE HARD DIRT TRACK RACING LOVING FAN ESPECIALLY SUPER LATE MODELS AND ESPECIALLY SUPERMAN JONATHAN DAVENPORT 🏁🏆🏁💞🤗💞🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
We came up with something similar in 2006 to solve the issue he was seeing with his data, that was night and day difference. It’s still legal.
They sure made a straight front axle illegal. Smh.
So this just keeps the left rear planted on the track when the car is loaded to the right and sliding sideways. ? Would allow for more grip, traction and forward bite. Makes sense. Having a one wheel drive race car would certainly be a “problem”
It induces axle angle
Might as well hop in here....since he said the device disconnects the LR from the car, I knew a modified guy who won races, he had a device to lift the LR off the ground....in the turns so are we just putting all the power on the RR. ??? And we can see when you go in and out of a left turn, the left wheel causes drag... so is that the problem ????
The man said they broke the rf a arm.
It doesn't matter how much motor you have without hook up.
Aero traction?
You can manipulate alot of things but tensile and ductbility
Basic Grey Area is where Marlboro gives sponsorship funding to American racing for bottom lines crops insurances and profits.
It's where innovation and loves chase each other.
In 2004/05 manufacturers just came out with 450's. Quicker if you build performance in house
kevin rumley. Fox live valves from desert racing.
It kicked that tire in on the corners.
..so what does it do exactly?
as he said... it spearates the left rear from the rest of the car. it's a trick suspension. he doesnt want to give away anymore than that.
Disconnects left & right birdcage geometry.
Cutting torches and the pond
Like Jack Hewitt i wanna see smoke rolling off the tires
Jack also said he'd race Eldora 🏁 if they are paying black ⚫️ eyes to win 🏆
AMAZING HOW THESE GUYS DIDN'T GET BANNED BUT THE STRAIGHT FRONT MOD GETS BANNED
Dynamic changes under load is impossible to measure with a tape. So these gray areas will always exist and guys will find advantages somehow. I think its more of a tire game right now.
Monoshock system for left rear only
Like hit golf balls in the dark the sound tells you where to find it.
Sure seems like it’s some form of traction control.
No way! Definition of traction control is you are measuring wheel speeds and can reactively cut driveline power when you detect excessive wheel slip in a closed loop control. Anything mechanical to make the car work is NOT traction control.
Traction control is basically a rev limiter. ASCS used to check tachs for TC electronics in them. Making the suspension hookup isn't traction control.
I'm a lifelong (60yo.) HUGE racing fan but with no explanation or name of "the problem" this vid may allude to, i feel like i just wasted 10:46 of my life. Maybe if i worked on those cars i'd "get it" ?
You got it. If you were in on it you’d better understand what they’re talking about.
People actively involved in racing like this are going to be very vague about a lot of things and extra vague about stuff they have done that was “grey”. They don’t want to lay it out clearly because other people will copy the advantage, and it can make the inspectors aware of what’s going on.
Wow such a display of journalistic ingenuity. You got an interview with Rumley to discuss the device and managed to get absolutely no information or explanation out of him except the blatantly obvious that it was built for the LR. Many of us have an inclination of what it’s purpose was however there a ton of convoluted/miss information and some speculation on the subject. You could have challenged him on “the problem” if he claims it’s unsolvable under the current rules. Then there’s no logical reason why he can’t share said information with the community at large. The sport flourished on this flow of information. All sectors benefit with multiple approaches to solving a problem. You could have asked him more questions about how it was mounted in the car. What adjustments did it have, what changed between versions, what would he do different, etc without directly exposing the anonymity of the information he wishes to remain secure. The interview lacked any true substance and probably should have been conducted by someone a little more knowledgeable about late model suspensions and also less....soft maybe 🤔. KR isn’t a genius. He’s just an extremely smart and competent individual who doesn’t approach the problem with traditional conformity and restraints. The bulk of this sport is filled with others who just copy what the see. There very little innovation. The internet has expedited the flow of information and that’s the only reason we’ve seen a drastic change over the last ten years. People are finally learning what was already known long ago. The trends trickle down much faster. However true innovation is very limited. The interviewer also mentioned patents. They are the most toxic thing to this sport. Some major companies in this industry are notorious for this forgetting they built their empire on the free and open design principles of others. Many aren’t common ideas they themselves aren’t the first to develop. Only α_s 🕳 ‘s file patents in this industry.
chris s, you typed a lot of words but said nothing, did it make you feel better. what did you expect from him, to share with you all the thousands of hours of work and his genius so you didn't have to work for it. pretty sure he said where it was mounted, i know where its mounted.
If there's really a patent on the device as he claims, don't patents have to be publicly available? And they have to describe the device and how it works. They have to do this so the patent can be enforceable. How else could you prove someone violated your patent? So, the answer is simple, search through the patents! Also, patents prevent you from copying and marketing someone's idea. I'm not sure if a patent would stop you from building a device for your own personal use. As long as you didn't sell the device it would be very difficult, likely impossible for him to sue.
Stefan yes they are available to the public if you know how to search for it. You are wrong though about your interpretation of what a patent means. You are not allowed to make a replica of the device. However seeing the full details and descriptions in the patent will help you to understand what it is doing and likely allow you to find the same information in your data that he was seeing and thus you can then set about finding another way to solve the situation.
Here is my take on it. It’s rooted in what he said. Disconnecting the left rear from the car. Some take this to mean figuratively not physically as the wheel / tire don’t actually leave the car.
There is a lot of talk in here about about rear end parts and steel, hardening and such. What if this device slid the left axel out of the rear end to eliminate the fight between LR and RR in the corner thus allowing the RR to turn at a high rev and to maintain a higher engine RPM through the corner but as soon as the car comes off roll the LR engages again at the higher RPM thus allowing the driver to carry more engine RPM through the corner and thus not having to come back up to speed coming off the corner. This would account for the different sound that he mentioned. You could be carrying an extra 500 to 800 rpm maybe even more through the corner, keeping traction on the right rear with an instant engagement of the LR as you come out of roll.
Blown LR - because if you force the LR with HP to go at the RR revs you will cook the rubber right off from it.
So in summary that device was somehow allowing the LR axel to disengage from the rear end as the car went into roll in the corner.
@@nicknelson544 "You are not allowed to make a replica of the device. "
How are you going to stop anyone from making a replica? A patent only give you a right to sue someone, and to sue you must have "damages". If someone only builds a replica of your device and doesn't sell it, you've incurred no damages and have no standing to sue. If someone built a replica and only uses it on their own car, good luck bringing a lawsuit against them.
That was a waste of 10 minutes of my life, I don't know what it is, I don't know what it does but it goes on the left rear.....maybe.
it's a trick suspension for the left rear that probably keeps the tire putting power to the track better.
Never a waste listening to Kevin talk !!
The left rear upper rod is in extension during antisquat/hike/droop. Because of that, any bump or inconsistency on the race track will cause the left rear tire to travel upwards and the left upper rod to go back into compression and unload the left rear tire, causing traction loss. This device allows the left upper rod to "float", to not ever go into the compression state, which essentially keeps the left rear tire "in the track" at all times, even when the track is rough.
This center brackets pivot. If you understand how these cars get up on the bars you will understand this device. Haven't seen anything like this and it took a long pause to figure it out
Go get 'em Tiger! With that attitude there'll be no stopin' you!
Austin Kirkpatrick straight axle
Slow like torque and 4 barrels. Ratios similar to swing arm linkages. 😉
He not only person to figure this out, I know he likes to pat hisself on the back but he would be shocked to see how many different variations of this exists for different types of racing.
Zero information other than there is a smart guy trying to make a car rip faster than everyone else.
Not selfish to not sell it. That's what being the best is all about. When someone else figures it out, cats out of the bag, then start selling it.
F1 DRS/KERS working principles in a Tesla is a Tesla with NO CHARGING STATIONS OR CORD
4 wheels return productions into a 2nd power pack
Without billboards
Man I need to know what the problem is lol
Lmao right
🤷🏼♂️🤣
I’m just guessing here but the problem has to do with restraints imposed by two fixed bars and the indexing on the left rear of the 4 bar car.
@ChrisS-oo6fl like they want more movement/positioning available for that part of the suspension but they're not allowed by the rules?
@@ChrisS-oo6fl yes looks like that device allows the left rear to drop further down and also move it forward under power creating massive amounts of forward drive off the corner
Simple is 9 out of 10 times the best. Cheating NO just progression
😂
He will not tell what it helps I promise you that
You wouldn't believe it but coins and currency taught me current and electric. A engineering major drop out because racing 😂
Money is a man made product. Tolerances to codes laws. Own the money industry from trying and knowing tech to specs
Just dont get caught, hell if they only knew what ive done to many different types of dirt cars
Could it be that the left rear tire is spinning and getting hot and burning the tire off the car? Left tire flats? With a shock absorber on the device it probably stops the wheel from bouncing on a rough track as well. By outlawing this device would be limiting progress in dirt track racing and would relegate the series to the likes of NASCAR. There are problems with chassis that smart people can figure out. There probably is a fix for a problem that this device creates. Congratulations.
Maybe nothing's new under the sun. Same concept as changing suspension pickup points location with roll to maintain positive camber. This had the side benefit of changing the roll couple for zero chassis roll. Adjustable link with the Heim joint changes the couple.
Personally I prefer springs the fox seals get weak in time starts sagging
Stack springs didn't happen until when? Yall are behind talk to trophy truck guys and FOX
We did stack springs with a telescopic tube guide on a Chevy S-10, Class 6 desert truck in 85. Same truck also had a 3 link rear with equal length leaf springs with long shackles on each end & an articulating fastening point for the rear axle to the leaf springs for zero bind or spring twist in any movement. Rules said "stock concept" which meant leaf spring rear, coil spring double A-arm front. Ran 2nd at the Parker 400 behind the Chevy Factory S-10 truck driven by Larry Ragland, first time out with it.
Talks alot but does not say much.
What a horrible video.. Did it learn anything. No wonder so many people are turning against flow.
I dont like it at all. glad they outlawed it. beat your competitors with set up and driver talent, not trick parts.
This is setup. Boomers said the very same thing when they seem a floating bided birdcage and 4 bar. Out Engineering the competition is at the core of our sport. What your indirectly advocating for with this mentality is what CUP has done and exactly why the racing is dog 💩. It’s the same mentality that Haz frozen the rules with antiqued nonsense usually disguised as cost saving measures and retards the advancement of the sport.
Technically this would be beating them with ‘setup’ 🤷♂️
Everyone has tricks up their sleeves this is Smoky Yunick level trickery 😊
yeah i guess we could all go back to leaf springs and production automobile shocks. i think they call that street stocks.
That sounds antithetical to any actual racers I’ve known. Beat your competitors with set up, driver, ingenuity, maintenance, etc… What’s lame is just outspending everyone, or gradually making everything in the world a spec or arrive and drive series.
Too much rear end gear in those cars you are not plowing a field with a 600hp tractor. When the culture learns physics and momentum on the high side your problems will be solved.
Why outlaw a brilliant engineering mind
So that everyone doesn't have to change their cars to keep up, sucks but it makes sense
1 name... Mark Richards. Same reason why a solid front axle car isn't allowed.
because the cars are supposed to be close to equal under the rules.
@@HerroRya. The solid front axel was theorized long before implementation. If you haven’t noticed modifieds and sprints ran them. It wasn’t some enlightening and genius idea. In fact when they did build it they used proven technology that was extremely old and the bulk of the engineering issues was fitment. People spoke about this decades prior.
It’s banned because of the backwards veins genetic to the demographic of this sport. It’s also thanks to erroneous fear mongering, antiquated perceptions, lack of education, and a tendency to make decisions on nostalgia rather then on the fundamentals of common sense. The rules Dirt racing especially modifieds are antiquated and foolish. Until redneck boomers become less prevalent in the sport it will only continue.
Guy sounds arrogant and def selfish