If you save from standard C4D saver you will have the ODT (Output Display Transform) applied to the file, you would need to change the view to RAW instead of AcesCG for final rendering. Otherwise the view transform will be applied to the file. That is the wrong way to do it IMO.. I bet you didn’t know this - If you open AOV manager you can save out a ‘direct’ pass and your passes will be rendered without the view transform, so RAW output…So just use this way to render out beauty pass instead of keep switching the view before rendering to PV. Also another tip…ACES has designed ACEScc and I believe it stands for ‘Color Correct’ which is essentially LOG…which means in AE we would use ColourIO to convert from RAW to ACEScc then have our adjustments like lumatri which works best with LOG..then after that go from ACEScc > sRGB and add a profile converter with ‘linearize output profile’ ticked. This gets you back to exactly how it looks in RS render view. Make sure AE project settings are set to 16/32bits and linear is ticked. I’ve just set up a template conversion stack so the workflow is just automatic now no fuss. Once you have the workflow sussed you can just setup some template project files so you ever have to keep doing the same thing over and over.
I'm trying this (with 32 bit direct outputted passes) (ACEScg as rendering space, sRGB as display, Raw as view) (compensate view transform off) (AE: 32 bit, sRGB, Linear) (AE: use display color management off) (passes with Preserve RGB on for all). But it looks crazy, like all colors are hard and posterized. Specifically with the "ACEScg > sRGB & profile converter" step on top of it all. Any ideas? I'm so confused after thinking I have this process down, and then it doesn't work constantly!
In my opinion, it doesn't make any sense to use PV. Everything should be handled through RS renderView. Corona, Octane, Vray, and many other render engines offer the ability to save layered files in any color space you desire. If there’s no need to output for different color spaces, there’s no reason to keep ACES data; we should be able to bake it into the exported file.
Can you also reflect how this works within AE especially with (linear) compositing? I've been roaming across hundreds of videos but I haven't gotten around the proper workflow.
I'm also still really confused by this system. Also confused about how it converts to sRGB later in Photoshop. I just processed a render with nice water refractions and all the bright details are flatttened out to plain blue when converting the color profile in Photoshop from ACEScg to sRGB. When I copy the image and paste it in a new sRGB document the detail is preserved. When I choose assign profile, I get the washed out colors so can't use that.
you’re welcome! I would say since it doesn’t hurt to have it on you could just use it to get more comfortable with it. That’s at least what my plan is!
The fact that it needs to be untangled is a problem. This stuff is way too confusing and makes it so easy to mess up everything by forgetting to click one thing.
9:44 This is actually incorrect. ACES does provide a considerable better color output for final images. Since it works within the larger gamut, it's more than just a highlight roll-off. It actually calculates and blends colors more accurately to the real world. You can see these comparisons in the redshift documentation. docs.redshift3d.com/display/RSDOCS/Color+Management+-+OCIO+ACES#ColorManagementOCIOACES-VisualComparison So even as a solo artist it pays to work in an ACES workflow to achieve more realistic renders.
I've seen those images before, and to be honest what I'm seeing is that things just look different. Not necessarily better. Maybe it's the demo scene that's not really helping things but even in my tests I didn't notice any earth shattering differences. I tend to color correct things in post so if something needs fixing it's quite easy to do. Taking out a colour or adding more colour etc. I will use ACES because it's already there and to be future proof but if someone forced me to stay with regular linear I wouldn't mind.
@@marvelousdecay I guess at the end of the day it's all subjective but if someone is aiming for photorealism, ACES will definitely yield more realistic results.
@@marvelousdecay I think a good furnace test is 3 spheres with with R, G and B emission in a light fog enviroment. normal sRGB shoudn't converge neatly to white, whereas ACES does.
@@marvelousdecay Also, ACES uses completely different RGB Primaries. u know the things your computer considers to be R, G and Blue respectively. As it's not a spectral renderer that considers wavelengths of light that interact witheach other, but simply renders R, G and B, passes and puts em ontop of each other, it matters That's why they looks "different" even without tonemapping applied.
This fantastic video. Thank you for taking time to show all the examples. I have even more questions now :D
I can totally relate. This is usually what happens when you dive in to the color management rabbit hole!
If you save from standard C4D saver you will have the ODT (Output Display Transform) applied to the file, you would need to change the view to RAW instead of AcesCG for final rendering. Otherwise the view transform will be applied to the file. That is the wrong way to do it IMO..
I bet you didn’t know this - If you open AOV manager you can save out a ‘direct’ pass and your passes will be rendered without the view transform, so RAW output…So just use this way to render out beauty pass instead of keep switching the view before rendering to PV.
Also another tip…ACES has designed ACEScc and I believe it stands for ‘Color Correct’ which is essentially LOG…which means in AE we would use ColourIO to convert from RAW to ACEScc then have our adjustments like lumatri which works best with LOG..then after that go from ACEScc > sRGB and add a profile converter with ‘linearize output profile’ ticked. This gets you back to exactly how it looks in RS render view. Make sure AE project settings are set to 16/32bits and linear is ticked.
I’ve just set up a template conversion stack so the workflow is just automatic now no fuss. Once you have the workflow sussed you can just setup some template project files so you ever have to keep doing the same thing over and over.
I'm trying this (with 32 bit direct outputted passes) (ACEScg as rendering space, sRGB as display, Raw as view) (compensate view transform off) (AE: 32 bit, sRGB, Linear) (AE: use display color management off) (passes with Preserve RGB on for all). But it looks crazy, like all colors are hard and posterized. Specifically with the "ACEScg > sRGB & profile converter" step on top of it all. Any ideas? I'm so confused after thinking I have this process down, and then it doesn't work constantly!
In my opinion, it doesn't make any sense to use PV. Everything should be handled through RS renderView. Corona, Octane, Vray, and many other render engines offer the ability to save layered files in any color space you desire. If there’s no need to output for different color spaces, there’s no reason to keep ACES data; we should be able to bake it into the exported file.
Can you also reflect how this works within AE especially with (linear) compositing? I've been roaming across hundreds of videos but I haven't gotten around the proper workflow.
Great video. Do we have to do anything with OpenCOlorIO Configuration, as mine is blank?
For AE, You can interpret footage(Ctrl+Alt+G), go to Color Managment / Assign Profile, select "ACEScg ACES Working Space..." :)
Fantastic video.
thanks mate!
Is there an Update for the new OCIO color managment in C4D 2023? Or is it still the same that you dont see what you get in the End???
One year past, no changes? I think we are missing something.
I'm also still really confused by this system. Also confused about how it converts to sRGB later in Photoshop. I just processed a render with nice water refractions and all the bright details are flatttened out to plain blue when converting the color profile in Photoshop from ACEScg to sRGB. When I copy the image and paste it in a new sRGB document the detail is preserved. When I choose assign profile, I get the washed out colors so can't use that.
You can't assign to sRGB, you have to convert to sRGB once that render was designated to be in the Acescg color space.
this video is awesome!
So no more Aces in the sleeve for me I guess...Thanks for sharing and explaining
you’re welcome! I would say since it doesn’t hurt to have it on you could just use it to get more comfortable with it. That’s at least what my plan is!
this didn't work for me. I had to go back to linear workflow
The fact that it needs to be untangled is a problem. This stuff is way too confusing and makes it so easy to mess up everything by forgetting to click one thing.
Agree 100%. Hopefully things will get easier in future versions
I wholeheartedly agree with this. I would get fired if I spent the time needed on the clock to figure this shit out.
Well, after 2 years the same shit still remains. I don't understand why they don't improve RS renderview, makes no sense to me using Picture Viewer.
lol after this video i am sticking to linear workflow even harder ... i dont see any advanteges going aces
9:44 This is actually incorrect. ACES does provide a considerable better color output for final images. Since it works within the larger gamut, it's more than just a highlight roll-off. It actually calculates and blends colors more accurately to the real world. You can see these comparisons in the redshift documentation.
docs.redshift3d.com/display/RSDOCS/Color+Management+-+OCIO+ACES#ColorManagementOCIOACES-VisualComparison
So even as a solo artist it pays to work in an ACES workflow to achieve more realistic renders.
I've seen those images before, and to be honest what I'm seeing is that things just look different. Not necessarily better. Maybe it's the demo scene that's not really helping things but even in my tests I didn't notice any earth shattering differences. I tend to color correct things in post so if something needs fixing it's quite easy to do. Taking out a colour or adding more colour etc. I will use ACES because it's already there and to be future proof but if someone forced me to stay with regular linear I wouldn't mind.
@@marvelousdecay I guess at the end of the day it's all subjective but if someone is aiming for photorealism, ACES will definitely yield more realistic results.
@@marvelousdecay I think a good furnace test is 3 spheres with with R, G and B emission in a light fog enviroment.
normal sRGB shoudn't converge neatly to white, whereas ACES does.
@@marvelousdecay Also, ACES uses completely different RGB Primaries. u know the things your computer considers to be R, G and Blue respectively. As it's not a spectral renderer that considers wavelengths of light that interact witheach other, but simply renders R, G and B, passes and puts em ontop of each other, it matters
That's why they looks "different" even without tonemapping applied.