Truthfully they tried to keep it respectful, but the simple answer they gave was that ibn taymiyya is not hujja. He can make mistakes as can all scholars and just because he held an opinion, it doesn't mean the entire Muslim Ummah has to follow this opinion.
@@junaidijaz2067Ibn Taymiya lived at a time when Ahlul Bid'ah were rampant (still are) so his refutations naturally dealt with a lot of misguidance. Ibn Taymiya's aqeedah is in line with the Salaf, that's why his works are key for everyone after him.
The problem with ibn Taymiyah is that he loved quarrels and was an eristic debater. Whenever he got into arguments he would lean to extremities. For example, to argue with the Shia he belittled the value of Imam Ali and even Fatimah AS; to argue with the Munazzihah he backed the tenets of the anthropomorphist Karramiyah...
@@frommoroccowithlove where is the proof for this? He actually ordered his students to be mild in their speech with the muslim sects like asharia etc... So pls give an example where Ibn Taymiyyah belittled Ahl Al Bait. And if you cant, then ask for forgiveness bc of the false accusation against Shaykh Al Islam
This is one of the most beautiful things about Islam. Almost any person, no matter how low will stand up to almost anyone no matter how high, if they cause a contradiction that creates a problem with the faith. You do not see this in Christianity, it more resembles a battle for power than one of the faith.
@@lowkey621 Haroun Kanj is a Sheikh (scholar) of the Ash'ari doctrine of 'Aqeedah, while brother Abdulrahman is a student of knowledge (not a scholar) of the Athari doctrine of 'Aqeedah.
They resort to mockery and insult when cornered. Average reaction of an ashari. Brother Haroon should have stopped them for mocking brother Abdurrahman.
President has a 7 year old brain. He has the silliness of a todler As for minhaaji, he just tried to save their backs. The saddest part is that they still dont understand what abdulrahman came up to say in the first place. 😄
I agree that Al Minhaji didn't come off in the best light, truthfully how I understand it is that the majority of the Ummah don't consider Sh Ibn Taymiyya as mujadid al Islam. In respect to him, we could disagree with his opinions. For us his statements are not Hujja like they are for the current day Salafis. So I understand that brother Abdul Rahman tried to voice his opinion, but again he came with the narrative that because Ibn Taymiyya ra. said this... therefore this is the only correct understanding.
@@junaidijaz2067 You missed the whole purpose of Abudurrahman bringing up Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah. He demonstrated that the Aqeedah of Ibn Taymiyyah was in line with the Aqeedah of At-Tabari. He brought up a quote they agreed was correct and then revealed it was from Ibn Taymiyyah's Majmoo' al-Fataawa. They'd already agreed it's correct, yet still argued solely to defend their low opinion of Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah. Haqq is Haqq.
@@virtualwanderer can you help me understand the video pls, there were many terms and im confused a bit. also when brother said he doesnt affirm harakah, does he mean movement by harakah?
@@Alfares_3 أبدأك قبل ميلاد الاشعري اصلا : سعيد ابن المسيب توفي ٩٤ هجري الحسن البصري ١١٠ هجري الاوزاعي ١٥٧ هجري مالك ابن انس ١٧٩ هجري ابن راهويه ٢٣٤ هجري احمد ابن حنبل ٢٤١ احمد ابن سعيد الدارمي جلادكم ٢٥٣ البخاري ٢٥٦ مسلم ٢٦١ ابن ماجه ابو داود الترمذي ومن كبار الفقهاء عند السادة المالكية اذكر ابن ابي زيد القيرواني مالك الصغير وبدون ان ننسا الذهبي وابن قاضي الجبل وابن كثير و الطبري حبر الامة وابن القيم الجززية وغيرهم وفي القرون الاخيرة سالم ابن عدود وابن عثيمين والالباني و المعلمي اليماني وغيرهم . والسلام عليكم يا ابناء افلاطون وارسطاليس
@@Alfares_3 الفرقة الوهابية فرقة ضالة لانها تمتلك علماء في قبل ميلاد الاشعري ياللسخف 😂😂😂😂 كون شوخنا اقدم من الاشعري مدح وليس ذم وذكرت لك من هم قبل الاشعي كما ذكرت لك من هم من الالف الاخيرة انت ادعيت الا شيخ لنا غير ابن تيمية فانكشف كذبك شيوخنا موجودون قبل ميلاد الاشعري وبعده وكان هاذا الدين اقامه الاشعري ... هل كان ابو بكر وعثمان وعمر على ظلالة ياترى ؟ وهل كانو يعرفون الجوهر والعرض ودليل المقولات الاربع و الحدوث والامكان حقا بالتأكيد لا ففطرتهم سليمة وهم على الجادة خلاف مبتدعة الاشعرية احباب القبور .
The translated words of Hujjat al-Islam, Imam al-Ghazali: "We attest that He is a hearer and a see-er. He hears and sees and no audible thing, however faint, is beyond His hearing, and no visible thing, however minute, is hidden from His sight. Distance does not prevent His hearing and darkness does not obstruct His seeing. He sees without eyes and hears without ears; just as He perceives without a brain, and seizes without a hand, and creates without an instrument, since His attributes do not resemble the attributes of created things, just as His essence does not resemble the essence of created things."
@@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543 indeed. I have provided a quote which deploys ta'wil, and you insinuate tafweedh. By the consensus of scholars for the vast majority of our history both are fine as long as no one ascribes likeness of Allah to His creation.
قبحهم الله حتى في الغرب يتترسون بولي الأمر هناك كما تترسوا به من قبل لسجن كل من يعارض عقيدتهم كما فعلوا بشيخ الإسلام وابن ابي العز الحنفي وغيرهم كثير، وسلفهم في ذلك المعتزلة.
@@mohammedhanif6780 Yes obviously I need a mechanism whether it's moving my finger or maybe something like a telepathic mechanism in the future. God on the other hand doesn't need a mechanism to scroll down, just "Be and it's" eh? He doesn't need to move a finger to scroll down.
Movement is an acquired tassawur how can there be any movement outside of creation, by definition presuposes a body and a change of state from point a to b or position
When people are not honest and can’t even admit their mistakes you know you are misguided and that is just embarrassing. ….”even if a kafir comes with alhaq the just thing to do is 2 acknowledge”….subhana’allah
@@MuhammadAbdullah-kx3kndon't backbite other Muslims. He wouldn't like that you compare him to that. Obviously you are mocking him, be careful what you say on the internet too, Allah is watching you. You may not agree with him, leave it as that.
I think we should take a step back and read from the original sources of the Asharis and Maatureediyyah and the Atharis and the books of ibn Taymiyyah. So far I understand all are within Ahlus Sunnah. The best way is to read for example the Sanoosiyyah series and the refutations upon Sh Safar al-Hawaalis book on Asharis like the 2 part refutation by Sh Salaah al-Idlibi and Sh Muhammed Saleh al-Gharsi. Read also the books of Sh Saif al-Asri and Sh Abdul-Fattah al-Yaafi’ee and Saeed Mamdooh and others. Also Abdullah al-Ujairi. We need to take a step back and read a lot then research and analyse. It’s your WAAJIB! All of you in the debate and the students of knowledge who are serious on these topics.
Your comment assumes we have the positions we do due to ignorance on our part. It's actually the opposite. We know they aren't from ASWJ because we know what they believe.
@@JakeBrancatella did we read the refutations upon Sh Safar al-Hawaii’s book on the Asharis? Like the 2 parts of Sh Salaah al-Idlibi and Sh Muhammed Saleh al-Gharsi? Did we read the 5 book series by Imam as-Sunoosi? Did we read the Athari/Hanbali Aqeedah books? Did we read the big commentary of Sh Saeed Fodeh on Aqeedah Tahawiyyah? Did we read Sharh al-Mawaaqif? Did we read the refutation of Imam Subki on the Nooniyyah of Imam ibnul Qayyum? Did we read the books of Sh Saif al-Asri like Al-Qawl at-Tamaam and Bid’ah and Muqaddimaat? The books and researches of Sh Abdul-Fattah al-Yaafi’er? I’m saying we need to understand inside out from their own sources properly first. I wasted 25 years not doing this but trusted and relied upon only refutations within the Salafis when they quoted the Asharis.
@@BeObjectiveBeHumble You can start with this and then tell me if I am misrepresenting them. www.academia.edu/121022345/Asharism_The_Creed_of_the_Ummah
@@JakeBrancatella Jzkl for this. I enjoyed it and found it very interesting. What conclusions can we draw from all this? That there’s 4 Madhabs in Aqeedah like Sh Taqi Uthmani mentioned? And these are matters of Ijtihaad? That the majority of the scholars past 800 years have been Asharis/Maatureedi or Hanbali/Athari upon Tafweedh? That the general Muslim folk have always been inline with the Athariyyah/Taymi way of Ith’baat/Affirmation in a way that befits Allah and with Tanzeeh too? Could you mention more books in English and Arabic that discuss this? Jzkl for this eye opener
@@BeObjectiveBeHumble There are many questions in you comment. I'll respond to just one of them for now. It's not merely the general Muslim laity that have be inline with Ibn Taymiyyah's positions. The majority of ahlul hadith and Hanbalis were too. Please see my paper here where I demonstrate that the most controversial and fundamental difference between Atharis and Ash'aris was held by the early muhadithun including Imam al-Bukhari. See here: www.academia.edu/115368939/The_God_of_Aristotle_is_Not_the_God_of_Abraham
The adab displayed by some of these brothers is shocking. Who is this President fella coming out from nowhere? The Manhaaji fella was very disruptive as well.
If Allah is above the throne, and descends every time at night. Is Allah descending every time while being above the throne, isn't this a logical contradiction? One being cannot be at two places fully at the same time. That's like Muslims laughing at Christians for saying God is to persons fully with a different mind at the same time, as in having two authors that fully authored the book at the same time. Which is illogical.
@@the_master_ryu As if Islamic believe have to be logical. Or is isra Wal miaraj also not logical so you have deny it like ke Abu Jahl since it's illogical or it's logical.
Excellent Manners by Abdul Rahman. May Allah aza Wajjal guide us all to the Truth Ameen.
They started panicking when he caught them and started translating the work of ibn taymiyyah
Truthfully they tried to keep it respectful, but the simple answer they gave was that ibn taymiyya is not hujja. He can make mistakes as can all scholars and just because he held an opinion, it doesn't mean the entire Muslim Ummah has to follow this opinion.
@@junaidijaz2067Ibn Taymiya lived at a time when Ahlul Bid'ah were rampant (still are) so his refutations naturally dealt with a lot of misguidance.
Ibn Taymiya's aqeedah is in line with the Salaf, that's why his works are key for everyone after him.
@@spawnnpwn4166 it still doesn't mean he (hafizaallah) is Hujja. Very respectable scholar and a treasure for the Ummah but his word isn't Final.
The problem with ibn Taymiyah is that he loved quarrels and was an eristic debater. Whenever he got into arguments he would lean to extremities. For example, to argue with the Shia he belittled the value of Imam Ali and even Fatimah AS; to argue with the Munazzihah he backed the tenets of the anthropomorphist Karramiyah...
@@frommoroccowithlove where is the proof for this? He actually ordered his students to be mild in their speech with the muslim sects like asharia etc... So pls give an example where Ibn Taymiyyah belittled Ahl Al Bait. And if you cant, then ask for forgiveness bc of the false accusation against Shaykh Al Islam
This is one of the most beautiful things about Islam.
Almost any person, no matter how low will stand up to almost anyone no matter how high, if they cause a contradiction that creates a problem with the faith.
You do not see this in Christianity, it more resembles a battle for power than one of the faith.
Who is the low and high person here, I’m not familiar with any of the people. And yes agree with the principle of what your saying
@@lowkey621 Haroun Kanj is a Sheikh (scholar) of the Ash'ari doctrine of 'Aqeedah, while brother Abdulrahman is a student of knowledge (not a scholar) of the Athari doctrine of 'Aqeedah.
They resort to mockery and insult when cornered. Average reaction of an ashari.
Brother Haroon should have stopped them for mocking brother Abdurrahman.
President has a 7 year old brain. He has the silliness of a todler
As for minhaaji, he just tried to save their backs.
The saddest part is that they still dont understand what abdulrahman came up to say in the first place. 😄
I agree that Al Minhaji didn't come off in the best light, truthfully how I understand it is that the majority of the Ummah don't consider Sh Ibn Taymiyya as mujadid al Islam. In respect to him, we could disagree with his opinions. For us his statements are not Hujja like they are for the current day Salafis.
So I understand that brother Abdul Rahman tried to voice his opinion, but again he came with the narrative that because Ibn Taymiyya ra. said this... therefore this is the only correct understanding.
@@junaidijaz2067 You missed the whole purpose of Abudurrahman bringing up Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah. He demonstrated that the Aqeedah of Ibn Taymiyyah was in line with the Aqeedah of At-Tabari. He brought up a quote they agreed was correct and then revealed it was from Ibn Taymiyyah's Majmoo' al-Fataawa. They'd already agreed it's correct, yet still argued solely to defend their low opinion of Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah. Haqq is Haqq.
@@virtualwanderer can you help me understand the video pls, there were many terms and im confused a bit. also when brother said he doesnt affirm harakah, does he mean movement by harakah?
JazakAllah'u khairan brothers
*_Masha'Allah, AbdulRahman_*
Minhaji tried to save the day with some screaming and trouble causing this was not muslim adab
But it was Minhaji adab 😂
@@xposingchristianpringle الله يهديه
@@Alfares_3 ابن تيمية ليس الشيخ الوحيد لاهل الحديث هذه مجرد خزعبلات من المعطلة
@@Alfares_3 أبدأك قبل ميلاد الاشعري اصلا : سعيد ابن المسيب توفي ٩٤ هجري
الحسن البصري ١١٠ هجري
الاوزاعي ١٥٧ هجري
مالك ابن انس ١٧٩ هجري
ابن راهويه ٢٣٤ هجري
احمد ابن حنبل ٢٤١
احمد ابن سعيد الدارمي جلادكم ٢٥٣
البخاري ٢٥٦
مسلم ٢٦١
ابن ماجه
ابو داود
الترمذي
ومن كبار الفقهاء عند السادة المالكية اذكر ابن ابي زيد القيرواني مالك الصغير وبدون ان ننسا الذهبي وابن قاضي الجبل وابن كثير و الطبري حبر الامة وابن القيم الجززية وغيرهم وفي القرون الاخيرة سالم ابن عدود وابن عثيمين والالباني و المعلمي اليماني وغيرهم .
والسلام عليكم يا ابناء افلاطون وارسطاليس
@@Alfares_3 الفرقة الوهابية فرقة ضالة لانها تمتلك علماء في قبل ميلاد الاشعري ياللسخف 😂😂😂😂 كون شوخنا اقدم من الاشعري مدح وليس ذم وذكرت لك من هم قبل الاشعي كما ذكرت لك من هم من الالف الاخيرة انت ادعيت الا شيخ لنا غير ابن تيمية فانكشف كذبك شيوخنا موجودون قبل ميلاد الاشعري وبعده وكان هاذا الدين اقامه الاشعري ... هل كان ابو بكر وعثمان وعمر على ظلالة ياترى ؟ وهل كانو يعرفون الجوهر والعرض ودليل المقولات الاربع و الحدوث والامكان حقا بالتأكيد لا ففطرتهم سليمة وهم على الجادة خلاف مبتدعة الاشعرية احباب القبور .
"Who is Al-Minhaji?"
His manners are not in alignment with Islamic manners!
Sad
That's correct
Ooooo Ashari caught at the end there
Notice how brother abdulrahman constantly says “we will get there” but never actually gets there.
Maybe you forgot to unmute that part.
What was he referring to with "we will get there"/ what exactly didn't he get to?
Lol ta'weel of conversation right before our eyes 😂😂
This was embarrassing, may Allah guide brother Harun Kanjj he seems to be a sincere good brother
ash'aris are not our brothers
@@terroriz0rlol ok shaykh
Salafism is the disease
Does AbdulRahman has other debates and Twitter or something?
Can Any Ashari or shia answer this question.
Does Allah see and hear for real or metaphorically ?
The translated words of Hujjat al-Islam, Imam al-Ghazali:
"We attest that He is a hearer and a see-er. He hears and sees and no audible thing, however faint, is beyond His hearing, and no visible thing, however minute, is hidden from His sight. Distance does not prevent His hearing and darkness does not obstruct His seeing. He sees without eyes and hears without ears; just as He perceives without a brain, and seizes without a hand, and creates without an instrument, since His attributes do not resemble the attributes of created things, just as His essence does not resemble the essence of created things."
@@oeshkoerbro what 🤦♂️
@@supplemarmot1244
Quran & Hadith has stated Allah has a Hand and Eyes.
@@falsesectslikeshiaarejudeo6543 indeed. I have provided a quote which deploys ta'wil, and you insinuate tafweedh. By the consensus of scholars for the vast majority of our history both are fine as long as no one ascribes likeness of Allah to His creation.
سبحانك يا الهي. لن ترى اشعرياَ يدعو الناس إلى الإسلام. كلّ همهم افساد عقيدة المسلمين فقط. لن ترى واحد منهم له قناة يدعوا غير المسلمين إلى الإسلام.
عجيب ما لجّوا إلى هذا إلا بعد تكفير النجديون لسواد الأمة من أهل السنة
قبحهم الله
حتى في الغرب يتترسون بولي الأمر هناك كما تترسوا به من قبل لسجن كل من يعارض عقيدتهم كما فعلوا بشيخ الإسلام وابن ابي العز الحنفي وغيرهم كثير، وسلفهم في ذلك المعتزلة.
Salam alaikum Br. Abdulrahman,
how long roughly did take you to become a professional translator?
Mash'Allah
Another big oops moment from Minhaji, Menon and Co 😂
Do I have to move from one place to another in order to scroll down on my phone?
Is that a bad/problematic analogy?
your finger does
@@mohammedhanif6780 Yes obviously I need a mechanism whether it's moving my finger or maybe something like a telepathic mechanism in the future.
God on the other hand doesn't need a mechanism to scroll down, just "Be and it's" eh? He doesn't need to move a finger to scroll down.
I have a video on my channel on Ibn Taymiyya's explanation of the hadith of nuzul. Please see it.
That’s not the debate issue because it’s not about moving something else
@@kinetickame1203 Isn't "nuzool" and whether it necessarily entails "movement" part of the debate issue?
Movement is an acquired tassawur how can there be any movement outside of creation, by definition presuposes a body and a change of state from point a to b or position
When people are not honest and can’t even admit their mistakes you know you are misguided and that is just embarrassing. ….”even if a kafir comes with alhaq the just thing to do is 2 acknowledge”….subhana’allah
These Asharis are so deceptive SubhanAllah
they seem to give the vibes
Hello brother Jake, can you recommend any book or videos for studying Aqeedah?
Aqeedah wassitiyah, OneWaytoparadise channel abu mussab has done many lessons explaining it aswell
@@MuhammadAbdullah-kx3kn haha why u calling him shrek?
@@MuhammadAbdullah-kx3kn no he doesnt
@@MuhammadAbdullah-kx3kn ur a jahil
@@MuhammadAbdullah-kx3kndon't backbite other Muslims. He wouldn't like that you compare him to that. Obviously you are mocking him, be careful what you say on the internet too, Allah is watching you. You may not agree with him, leave it as that.
The name of the app? Pls
السلام عليكم و رحمة الله و بركاته
I think we should take a step back and read from the original sources of the Asharis and Maatureediyyah and the Atharis and the books of ibn Taymiyyah. So far I understand all are within Ahlus Sunnah. The best way is to read for example the Sanoosiyyah series and the refutations upon Sh Safar al-Hawaalis book on Asharis like the 2 part refutation by Sh Salaah al-Idlibi and Sh Muhammed Saleh al-Gharsi. Read also the books of Sh Saif al-Asri and Sh Abdul-Fattah al-Yaafi’ee and Saeed Mamdooh and others. Also Abdullah al-Ujairi. We need to take a step back and read a lot then research and analyse. It’s your WAAJIB! All of you in the debate and the students of knowledge who are serious on these topics.
Your comment assumes we have the positions we do due to ignorance on our part. It's actually the opposite. We know they aren't from ASWJ because we know what they believe.
@@JakeBrancatella did we read the refutations upon Sh Safar al-Hawaii’s book on the Asharis? Like the 2 parts of Sh Salaah al-Idlibi and Sh Muhammed Saleh al-Gharsi? Did we read the 5 book series by Imam as-Sunoosi? Did we read the Athari/Hanbali Aqeedah books? Did we read the big commentary of Sh Saeed Fodeh on Aqeedah Tahawiyyah? Did we read Sharh al-Mawaaqif? Did we read the refutation of Imam Subki on the Nooniyyah of Imam ibnul Qayyum? Did we read the books of Sh Saif al-Asri like Al-Qawl at-Tamaam and Bid’ah and Muqaddimaat? The books and researches of Sh Abdul-Fattah al-Yaafi’er? I’m saying we need to understand inside out from their own sources properly first. I wasted 25 years not doing this but trusted and relied upon only refutations within the Salafis when they quoted the Asharis.
@@BeObjectiveBeHumble You can start with this and then tell me if I am misrepresenting them.
www.academia.edu/121022345/Asharism_The_Creed_of_the_Ummah
@@JakeBrancatella Jzkl for this. I enjoyed it and found it very interesting. What conclusions can we draw from all this? That there’s 4 Madhabs in Aqeedah like Sh Taqi Uthmani mentioned? And these are matters of Ijtihaad? That the majority of the scholars past 800 years have been Asharis/Maatureedi or Hanbali/Athari upon Tafweedh? That the general Muslim folk have always been inline with the Athariyyah/Taymi way of Ith’baat/Affirmation in a way that befits Allah and with Tanzeeh too? Could you mention more books in English and Arabic that discuss this? Jzkl for this eye opener
@@BeObjectiveBeHumble There are many questions in you comment. I'll respond to just one of them for now. It's not merely the general Muslim laity that have be inline with Ibn Taymiyyah's positions. The majority of ahlul hadith and Hanbalis were too. Please see my paper here where I demonstrate that the most controversial and fundamental difference between Atharis and Ash'aris was held by the early muhadithun including Imam al-Bukhari. See here: www.academia.edu/115368939/The_God_of_Aristotle_is_Not_the_God_of_Abraham
19:09 😂😂😂😂😂😂 damn boii
The adab displayed by some of these brothers is shocking. Who is this President fella coming out from nowhere? The Manhaaji fella was very disruptive as well.
❤❤❤🌹🌹🌹🌹
Ashari is the Modern Jahmiya
If Allah is above the throne, and descends every time at night. Is Allah descending every time while being above the throne, isn't this a logical contradiction? One being cannot be at two places fully at the same time.
That's like Muslims laughing at Christians for saying God is to persons fully with a different mind at the same time, as in having two authors that fully authored the book at the same time. Which is illogical.
@@the_master_ryu if you die you can ask the one who said this words and wait for the answers.
@@the_master_ryu As if Islamic believe have to be logical. Or is isra Wal miaraj also not logical so you have deny it like ke Abu Jahl since it's illogical or it's logical.
if you don't take Qur'an and Sahih Ahadith as a credible and binding source (qat'i) then don't call yourself muslim.
I'm not sure why you're commenting with this on this particular video.
Asharis messing up again
Minhaji comes to save ashari ass! Hahahah such a trans 😂
Not versed to speak on the topic but 'President' sounds across like 1 of those aggressive chihuahua's that sqeal the moment another dog barks back.
كلام فاضي الاشعري لا يعلم ما يقول
Minhaji and President showing awful adab