Nice comparison video! These are great batteries. Another way to visualize 1C draw on a 48v pack is that you would need to pull more than 14kw of power to reach 1C. Considering roughly 10% inefficiency from an inverter, you will need a 12,000w inverter. That would supply 100A in 120v AC. A standard wall outlet is rated for 15A, it would max out more than 7 15A circuits. Very unlikely in a solar system unless you are running multiple AC units or space heaters simultaneously. It would drain all 14kwh in one hour which is a lot of power draw for anything except electric vehicles.
Great video full of useful information. It's interesting that you indicate the Lishen cells cannot be stacked on their side. Will Prowes recently had a Lishen cell develop a leak in his 24-volt BigBattery. BigBatter stacks the Lishen cells on the side. It will be interesting to see if that failure was an outlier or if it will make them change their designs. Thanks!
I saw that as well. I was surprised to see Lishen recommend against side stacking in their datasheet, especially as it is a very popular orientation and I haven't seen anyone point it out it could be an issue. But I think better safe than sorry and my strong suspicion is that any issue Lishen might have with orientation would apply to EVE as well.
@@TheWilltoBuild Interesting. Am I mistaken in stating that they were Lishen cells? I may have got that wrong. Perhaps they are EVE. In any case, you do raise a good point as technically, they are very similar. I wonder why Lishen indicates that they should not be stacked on their side?
@@duncanjames914 unfortunately there isn't much explanation, all the datasheet says is "During the course of storage or usage, keep the cells upright ."
Finally batteries where the cost per kwh is approaching £100 / if not yet close to $100us in thus form factor and large capacity ideal for static energy storage or even rv battery, hopefully one day soon smaller form factors will come down in price then personal emobility can really take off.... or roll on
Dan, I am thinking about doing exactly the same. My cells have been ordered, still considering options on split phase inverters. Would love to know all of the other components you selected. What BMS did you go with? And how do you have the cells physically setup, in a big plastic box or what? Fuses, switches, cables. Any advice? Thanks!
looking to build a 2x 12v in series for a inflatable boat that will have a e motor thats max amps 85amps at full power but for my set up i will likely not pull 85amps at full at 24v... my question is whats the dimensions in inches of each cells and how much it weigh ? thanks
I have another video with a physical comparison. I've also linked the technical data sheets for both batteries in the video description, which list the precise dimensions.
Would you feel comfortable mixing the cells in a 4p16s from the video it looks like the lishen top caps are slightly higher? All my eve batteries tested .18 internal resistance.
Honestly, if it can't be helped I would guess mixing Lishen and Eve 280 ah cells would not be the end of the world. That said, I would definitely not take them to 0% or 100% together, simply because it is likely capacities will not match. But if you say in the middle 80% of the voltage curve I *think* you will be fine.
Great video. I am planning to use a Victron MultiPlus3000 to charge these batteries, what would you recommend for the absorption charge and float charge? Much appreciated.
These cells require a completely different charge curve vs lead acid that is not at all compatible with the absorption and float that you are accustomed to. I'd do some research on that before you proceed.
I agree. This is actually a really complicated subject. Victron does typicall have lifepo4 defaults on the products, so you are always safe going with the default. I'm doing research now on the topic and plan on making a video when I settle on what I think is optimal.
Look up outdoor garage, and actually you still do absorption just no float charge. ... .... looks like your not the only one who needs to do research.... 👀
I just received a set of 4 cells. I think they are Lishen since the terminal shape and color is the same. Not sure about the compression recommendation, 2 of my cells are slightly swollen, I'm not going to squish them together
Yeah, I understand that. Compression seems to extend the life of cells, but if you are keeping them in a charge range of 20% to 80% for solar, it's unlikely to make a significant difference.
You got 32 cells and you didn't get any of them bloated ? That's reassuring, I really need to order these asap and I'm worried to buy them if I'll get scammed
But pressurize them will not allow the heat to dissipate faster isn't it. I'm asking because I've made an EV with similar prismatic and I've put a spacer in between the cells. At 2C they would get quite hot 45-50°C... so inside is even hotter
yeah that's true. I think ideally there would be some sort of spacer between them that allowed pressure to be applied equally and permitted airflow. I'll post a vid when I find something that works.
@@TheWilltoBuild Thanks. I think despite the general low quality (thread...softer than a bubble gum, and the C rate, aluminium shell) for a solar application are good. For EV where you squeeze the cells...terrible idea...but...I was low on budget lol!
@@shinosg-wiz4619 I agree. These are ideal for solar or an RV setting. I don't think they make sense for an EV for a bunch of reasons. They are too big for one, so you really couldn't get a high voltage out of them with ALOT of cells or a transformer, and they are really not meant to go above 1C, so they aren't designed for the high amp output you need on an EV.
The 2 you are showing are not grade A (automotive) batteries. To be automotive grade A batteries the terminals must be flat without threaded holes or studs. Once they are drilled out or welded they are not grade A any longer. Grade B or storage grade has threaded terminals added by the 3rd party seller (not the manufacturer). Battery makers strive to produce grade A, but when they fall short, they are bundled and sold at auction to 3rd party sellers who in turn offer them to you and me. The Chinese government has created the grading system in order to prevent lesser grade batteries from being used in automobiles. It is possible, for whatever reason for previously grade A batteries to be sold to the public as well, but just about every one of them I've seen has a threaded terminal added. I might add that in automotive use these are welded to bus bars and do not require the treaded terminals. Just to make that clear. However, if you buy one of these with threads it is more than likely 'storage' grade. Not to say it won't perform. Under a recently new system the lesser batteries are being graded specifically so that groups of them can be matched with similar charge/discharge characteristics. And these might even be sold in lesser amp/hr rated categories such as 270 ah or 273 ah, etc. I've seen those now being offered under China's new policy for manufacturer grading. Also the manufacturers are beginning to stamp a 'B' on the scan code to let buyers know these are not grade A. It does not mean they are not excellent for solar storage, though. EVE began to do this recently to prevent their batteries from being sold as grade A when they were not and to prevent 3rd party sellers from competing with EVE. Other makers in China are taking similar measures. It is important to note and to repeat, though that grade A batteries are no longer considered grade A once threads are added, under the more strict rules that the government has set up. The thinking was, according to experts, to prevent poor quality batteries from finding their way in electric automobiles with subsequent risk of fire and other issues. So, if you see 3rd party sellers offering threaded batteries as "grade A" they are taking liberty with the truth.
I wonder. Why is it that all these large cells usually have a 1C discharge rating, while smaller cells often have 5C+ or even 25C? Is the terminal the bottleneck to handle more current?
That is a good question. I imagine it has to do with the design of the cells, but also the terminals just don't have the surface area to do that kind of amperage.
@@TheWilltoBuild I guess model aircraft are pretty much the only market for batteries that last for 10 minutes. But it made me curious weather the actual battery could delivery it, if it had fatter terminals.
I just got my 8 batteries. They are a little swollen and at least 2 packs feel wet. What is happening do you think? I am just unpacking them and the ones that feel wet in the styrofoam I am not unwrapping. These are Varicore from Aliexpress. What do you suggest I do? One box of 4 were not wet but swollen enough I have to tilt the battery for them to hook together. Will the swelling go away?
I would dispute the transaction on aliexpress ASAP. Your cells should not be "wet". If they are wet or leaking, they are dangerous! You need to take proper precautions. Additionally, if you cells are swollen the swelling will not recede - the swelling is permanent and those are also a right off. Take pictures and dispute the charge because the leaking and swollen cells are unusable and need to be disposed of properly.
@@TheWilltoBuild Thank you so much. I have filed a dispute. Just received them today. The white foam on 2 batteries are soaked. How could they send me these batteries. Crazy
You should open them up. The Lishen is a laminate stack, the EVE is a jelly roll design. Completely different construction. It might explain why Lishen wants to be vertical though - to keep the electrolyte from pooling to one side. The EVE would not have that problem (I think) on its side
There is zero chance I open these up - the contents are toxic. But I would be surprised if they were actually different inside - I believe they are both laminate stack.
@@TheWilltoBuild Trust me - I do know - I have opened both. The EVE is a jelly roll. The Lishen is a Laminate stack. Yes- I have opened both of them. It is not so difficult or dangerous to do - first flatten the battery using large bleed resistors for several days. then carefully cut along the edges. No-- I did not get hurt. Send me your email address- I'll send you pictures
I've got no direct experience here, but I've heard you want to use a specialized or adapted alternator. Just connecting them to the alternator is bad idea. For car audio, again, I'm not expert. But these cells can easily output 1C power, so they can push 280 ah.
Your Headway 8Ah cells are LiFePO4, right? And 200A? You understand that you would need 4 of these cells in series for the voltages to mostly work? Do you already have a good 4S BMS? I've seen a video where a guy recommended a cheap balancer that I would avoid. Let's say one of the cells in the 4S battery has a bit less capacity than the others. When the alternator is spitting out 14.4 V the big capacity cells will stop charging at say 3.575V while the smaller one goes to 3.675V, which is outside the spec and that cell quickly gets worse and worse over time. This is true for any LiFePO4 battery, whether it is made up with your Headway 8Ah cells or either of these 280Ah cells. Get a battery with a decent BMS included or build your own with a good BMS and it could work fine. And if you really want to get the most life out these cells then drop the max charging voltage at the battery down closer to 13.4 volts.
A car alternator will fry itself trying to charge these beasts. With 24 Headway cells wired for 12 volts, you have 48 amp hours worth of battery that can also be shown as 48ah x 12.8volts = 610 watt hours. A car battery is between 60 and 100 amp hours and almost never gets discharged fully. The problem with trying to charge 280 amp hour cells is that the alternator will run maxed out for several hours and overheat. It would take a 70 amp car alternator 4 hours to recharge 4 of the 280ah cells needed to make 12 volts. A car alternator and lead acid battery is made to put the full 70 amps out for a few minutes then taper the current way down when the battery is topped off. It will overheat if its maxed out for any length of time. They make large bus and ambulance alternators but they cost $1500-$3500. By adding 4 of the 280ah cells, you have almost 3600 watt hours on tap. A 3600 watt amplifier can run for an hour. That's power! 8 of these 280's run my 10,000 btu window AC unit for 9 hours before cutoff. You would need about 140 Headway batteries to have the same power as 4 of these 280 amp hour cells.
Interesting - how long do you need to supply this kind of power for? The Lishen cells are rated for 2C for a very brief period, so a 16s3p setup could potentially work (at great cost). But there are also these for much less: batteryhookup.com/products/new-headway-38120-hp-3-2v-8ah-lifepo4-10-20-2020, they can output up to 200 amps. So if you do a 16s7p setup, you could put that kind of power (but only very briefly, max 2.4 minutes). But that kind of amperage is crazy, the wiring, busbars, etc, would have to very well thought out.
@@TheWilltoBuild not sure but looking at curtis motor controllers and the hpevs 34x2 the peak of 650 amp per controller is 60 sec, so continuous amp draw will be 400-500 amps to make 35 hp
@@dumbboatproject this is for a boat ? Like an electric boat? If that is the case, I would go for 16s4p, or better yet, 4 x 16s EVE or Lishen 280 ah cells. That would make roughly 56 KW. But you might want to start by estimating the KW per nautical mile, then estimating the total capacity you need given your desired range, then working back from there to what type of setup would work.
@@dumbboatproject Unless I am misunderstanding, not typically. Amps are the amount of power you'll need to power the motor, so you need to make sure that whatever batteries you have can deliver the amperage you need. But how long you want to deliver that amperage determines your range. So whatever current you need to run the motor multiplied by the length of time you want to run the motor, determines the capacity you'll need.
@@TheWilltoBuild I just thought of how you can check: he probably weighs them , check your weight. If he didn't weigh them I can weigh mine when they arrive
@@eksine they test at 272, so just short of 280, not 172. The Lishen are frequently advertised as both 272 and 280, but I think as long as they test about 270 that is fine.
You can find the exact dimensions on the datasheet I linked, but roughly 174 mm wide, 201 mm tall, and 72 mm thick. I have another video where I compare them physically: th-cam.com/video/AAK-R80d7t0/w-d-xo.html
@@TheWilltoBuild translation: I believe he is having doubts about whether to buy EVE or Lishen for his solar system and wishes you to weigh in on which would be better (incidentally, with slow
@@texas2cv looks like the question has been updated? Anyway, I agree with you. The cells seem to be almost indistinguishable really, so I think whichever set you secure at a better price would be my suggestion. Bus bars are nice, but I think they almost always include them.
Great question. Optimal temperature is about 77 F or 25 C, but the acceptable range is 15 C ( 59 F) to 35 C (95 F). Charging and discharging can safely occur outside of these ranges, but this is the optimal range for longevity and health of the cells.
@@TheWilltoBuild Thank you! I plan to install a new solar setup at my cabin with 32 of those cells at 48v. Haha I would have to insulate the battery shed and add a heater in the winter to keep the batterys at 20c Temperatures often dropp bellow -35 celsius at my cabin in Norway 🥶
@@TheJensss That is just optimal. At long as it is above 0 C, the battery is safe to charge and discharge. I would definitely recommend insulating it though and perhaps using a heat mat.
Good question. The prices change for these pretty regularly, but the Eve are generally more expensive. Sometimes as low as $10 more per cell, but I think when the Eve are in more short supply that gap can grow quite a bit larger. I've got affiliate links, so you can check for yourself at any time.
@@jeffsit_davidli.333 I agree, but alibaba is significantly more onerous to use for the average person. For most people it is just much easier to order from aliexpress.
I couldn't find either of these brands for a reasonable price on AliExpress, so I ordered 4 x 280Ah LiittoKala cells, which look similar to the EVE cells. There's also others "VarioCore", and "Blmpow", etc. which look like Lishen or EVE cells, perhaps they are made in the same factory. At any rate, you take some risk ordering any of these raw cells from China, yes they have some sort of warranty, but you have to pay for return shipping to China, may not be worth it. if one cell goes toes up, buy another one.
I have affiliate links for aliexpress above to these to these brands, but I 100% agree with you. You are taking a significant risk, people definitely get defective cells sometimes and the return/dispute process can be difficult or nonexistent. That said, the price is so much better that you could probably order twice what you need, just for redundancy, and still be paying less than if you bought a battery from a US company. So far my experience has been quite positive though.
Great video but try using a whiteboard or similar to show a side by side comparison without jumping all over the place and losing your viewers after the first minute. Remember its a comparison.
Big battery is selling a lot of batteries with the leshen cels installed on their side. And some people have had leakage issues. And the welds in their cases are rubbing through the blue plastic liners. I had to return mine because it had a cel that wouldn't balance. Shipped it back to them 3 weeks ago. Still waiting for my refund........ The pathetic thing is all those lesion and Eve batteries should have at least a 8 mm bolt fastener for the busbar connectors.
I personally the markup on those batteries is really high versus just building it yourself, but building your own battery is no joke, with very real risks, so I understand preferring to buy a full battery.
@@TheWilltoBuild I purchased a manufactured battery do the fact of insurance possibly not covering things if something went wrong. but it appears a lot of battery manufacturers are putting out some pretty shady products that are more dangerous than one assembled by the end user. and the lack of information out there as to how to deal with leaks of hazardous materials and what to do with it is a total nightmare. It took close to 15 request and I finally had to explain two big battery that they are legally required to send me a material data safety sheet on the batteries within. The MSDS document they sent me was 3 years old and made it appear that it was no more dangerous than Windex.
@@crazywayne7051 that absolutely sucks, but thanks for sharing. It's important for people to know about the experiences others are having, good and bad, with battery makers.
@@TheWilltoBuild Basically the only two battery manufacturers I would trust at this point are battleborn and sok. Big battery ship my battery with no documentation or invoice. And it took almost 25 days for them to finally send me a MSDS. and that wasn't until I inform them that they are legally obligated to supply that to anyone who requested. So in the meantime I did research. Turns out these stateside battery assemblers are supposed to do a full test of the batteries before shipping them out. And the printout is required to be signed by the technician. And a copy of it is to be kept in the records for one year after the battery was received by a customer. it would sure be nice if these battery manufacturers would slip a copy of this in with their battery. That way there's evidence of the balance voltage and specs on a sheet. And be careful because they like to change the link they actually did a bait and switch on me. The link I clicked on was for one of their owl batteries that had 203 amp hours. But they sent me one that was some sort of extreme version that was only 170 amp hours. and when I remove the top cover to take a look inside it appeared as though there was a fire inside and white powder. And the labeling on the BMS was less than the rated output of the battery. So it's pretty much a buyer beware market out there. I was concerned with liability shipping this thing back if it was leaking like others were. I had the folks at battleborn take a look at it. All I need to say is they were not impressed and gave me more reason not to ever purchase from #bigbattery.com ever. Worst experience I've ever had. They received the battery back on the 8th and will not respond to my emails. I hate to have to reach out to PayPal to resolve this but that will be happening soon. Oh and by the way if you purchase a battery and it doesn't have labeling stating its capacities in chemistry with hazardous logos on the side. And you're driving through Canada and get stopped. The Canadian authorities can seize the batteries and possibly your vehicle. You will most likely be fined and have to pay for the disposal of the hazardous material on top of it. It's just amazing what some companies can get away with.
Nice comparison video! These are great batteries. Another way to visualize 1C draw on a 48v pack is that you would need to pull more than 14kw of power to reach 1C. Considering roughly 10% inefficiency from an inverter, you will need a 12,000w inverter. That would supply 100A in 120v AC. A standard wall outlet is rated for 15A, it would max out more than 7 15A circuits. Very unlikely in a solar system unless you are running multiple AC units or space heaters simultaneously. It would drain all 14kwh in one hour which is a lot of power draw for anything except electric vehicles.
Great way to put it!
@@TheWilltoBuild hi,possible to cooperate with you?
@@hwangeva1464 yes it is! Please email me. My email is listed on my about page.
Great video, thanks for the info. I’m planning my van build and will definitely be building my own power battery bank using these cells.
Good luck! They've served me well so far.
I just ordered 16 EVE prismatic cells for my Skoolie conversion. I'm hoping that this monster bank performs very well. We'll see!
That is what I am running myself, more videos to come to see how it works out.
@@TheWilltoBuild I'll be looking forward to that! Because I don't really know what TF I'm doing yet!
Yay!
Just ordered 4 EVE cells for my truck camper. My deep cycle is pretty beat up. Thank you for the comparison between the two, that is great.
Glad you liked it, good luck with the camper!
Great video full of useful information. It's interesting that you indicate the Lishen cells cannot be stacked on their side. Will Prowes recently had a Lishen cell develop a leak in his 24-volt BigBattery. BigBatter stacks the Lishen cells on the side. It will be interesting to see if that failure was an outlier or if it will make them change their designs. Thanks!
I saw that as well. I was surprised to see Lishen recommend against side stacking in their datasheet, especially as it is a very popular orientation and I haven't seen anyone point it out it could be an issue. But I think better safe than sorry and my strong suspicion is that any issue Lishen might have with orientation would apply to EVE as well.
@@TheWilltoBuild Interesting. Am I mistaken in stating that they were Lishen cells? I may have got that wrong. Perhaps they are EVE. In any case, you do raise a good point as technically, they are very similar. I wonder why Lishen indicates that they should not be stacked on their side?
@@duncanjames914 unfortunately there isn't much explanation, all the datasheet says is "During the course of storage or usage, keep the cells upright ."
Yeah it makes about as much sense as driving around with the full gas can laying on its side with the vent open.
Finally batteries where the cost per kwh is approaching £100 / if not yet close to $100us in thus form factor and large capacity ideal for static energy storage or even rv battery, hopefully one day soon smaller form factors will come down in price then personal emobility can really take off.... or roll on
Can this batteries be used for car audio?. I'm seriously considering ordering 8 of the 280ah for car audio.
The Lishen data sheet specifies the number of cycles at a 20% to 100%, SOC, EVE says, I think, 20% to 90%.
Where did you see that in the data sheet? I've looked pretty carefully and I don't recall seeing it, but could definitely have missed it.
Eve says 90% (basically 5to95, when voltage start to drift). More important is a fixture. Last spec released by eve explains this fixture
In my setup I'm using 16 Lishen cells and 2 MPP LV6548 all in one inverters in split phase. No issues so far!
Fantastic, glad to hear it is working well.
Dan, I am thinking about doing exactly the same. My cells have been ordered, still considering options on split phase inverters. Would love to know all of the other components you selected. What BMS did you go with? And how do you have the cells physically setup, in a big plastic box or what? Fuses, switches, cables. Any advice? Thanks!
Hey, sorry I never got back to this. I did a video with my off grid setup - check it out and let me know if you have any questions.
Is it still working fine?
looking to build a 2x 12v in series for a inflatable boat that will have a e motor thats max amps 85amps at full power but for my set up i will likely not pull 85amps at full at 24v... my question is whats the dimensions in inches of each cells and how much it weigh ? thanks
I have another video with a physical comparison. I've also linked the technical data sheets for both batteries in the video description, which list the precise dimensions.
Awesome vid, thanks very much!
Glad you liked it!
Would you feel comfortable mixing the cells in a 4p16s from the video it looks like the lishen top caps are slightly higher? All my eve batteries tested .18 internal resistance.
Honestly, if it can't be helped I would guess mixing Lishen and Eve 280 ah cells would not be the end of the world. That said, I would definitely not take them to 0% or 100% together, simply because it is likely capacities will not match. But if you say in the middle 80% of the voltage curve I *think* you will be fine.
Great comparison.
Great video. I am planning to use a Victron MultiPlus3000 to charge these batteries, what would you recommend for the absorption charge and float charge? Much appreciated.
These cells require a completely different charge curve vs lead acid that is not at all compatible with the absorption and float that you are accustomed to. I'd do some research on that before you proceed.
I agree. This is actually a really complicated subject. Victron does typicall have lifepo4 defaults on the products, so you are always safe going with the default. I'm doing research now on the topic and plan on making a video when I settle on what I think is optimal.
Look up outdoor garage, and actually you still do absorption just no float charge. ... .... looks like your not the only one who needs to do research.... 👀
Thanks man. Stay awesome. 👍🌎
I just received a set of 4 cells. I think they are Lishen since the terminal shape and color is the same. Not sure about the compression recommendation, 2 of my cells are slightly swollen, I'm not going to squish them together
Yeah, I understand that. Compression seems to extend the life of cells, but if you are keeping them in a charge range of 20% to 80% for solar, it's unlikely to make a significant difference.
Part of the cell code number will ID the manufacturer, use the data sheet to decode it.
Thank you. Very helpful
You got 32 cells and you didn't get any of them bloated ? That's reassuring, I really need to order these asap and I'm worried to buy them if I'll get scammed
I think that most people have a good experience, but plenty of people don't and I think luck is a big part of it.
All this info comes on the data sheet when you buy the batteries !
You don't even need to buy them! I have linked to the datasheets in the video information.
the terminals are 8mm on my lichen
But pressurize them will not allow the heat to dissipate faster isn't it. I'm asking because I've made an EV with similar prismatic and I've put a spacer in between the cells. At 2C they would get quite hot 45-50°C... so inside is even hotter
yeah that's true. I think ideally there would be some sort of spacer between them that allowed pressure to be applied equally and permitted airflow. I'll post a vid when I find something that works.
Also, I can't see a world where I pull 2C (560 amps!) out of these. I think max .5 C if I am being honest.
@@TheWilltoBuild Thanks. I think despite the general low quality (thread...softer than a bubble gum, and the C rate, aluminium shell) for a solar application are good. For EV where you squeeze the cells...terrible idea...but...I was low on budget lol!
@@shinosg-wiz4619 I agree. These are ideal for solar or an RV setting. I don't think they make sense for an EV for a bunch of reasons. They are too big for one, so you really couldn't get a high voltage out of them with ALOT of cells or a transformer, and they are really not meant to go above 1C, so they aren't designed for the high amp output you need on an EV.
Habe ich auch top 😊👍 Good battery super system
Subbed!💥🤘
Appreciate it! Thanks!
Thank you for the good information. You have saved me a lot of work. Thank you again.
Glad it was useful!
I have 4 of these EVE cells in my 2001 7.3 Shuttle bus. I really hope they hold up for a while. Hopefully the Electrodacus takes good care of them
I've seen some videos on that - would be great to hear about you experience.
The 2 you are showing are not grade A (automotive) batteries. To be automotive grade A batteries the terminals must be flat without threaded holes or studs. Once they are drilled out or welded they are not grade A any longer. Grade B or storage grade has threaded terminals added by the 3rd party seller (not the manufacturer). Battery makers strive to produce grade A, but when they fall short, they are bundled and sold at auction to 3rd party sellers who in turn offer them to you and me. The Chinese government has created the grading system in order to prevent lesser grade batteries from being used in automobiles. It is possible, for whatever reason for previously grade A batteries to be sold to the public as well, but just about every one of them I've seen has a threaded terminal added. I might add that in automotive use these are welded to bus bars and do not require the treaded terminals. Just to make that clear. However, if you buy one of these with threads it is more than likely 'storage' grade. Not to say it won't perform. Under a recently new system the lesser batteries are being graded specifically so that groups of them can be matched with similar charge/discharge characteristics. And these might even be sold in lesser amp/hr rated categories such as 270 ah or 273 ah, etc. I've seen those now being offered under China's new policy for manufacturer grading. Also the manufacturers are beginning to stamp a 'B' on the scan code to let buyers know these are not grade A. It does not mean they are not excellent for solar storage, though. EVE began to do this recently to prevent their batteries from being sold as grade A when they were not and to prevent 3rd party sellers from competing with EVE. Other makers in China are taking similar measures. It is important to note and to repeat, though that grade A batteries are no longer considered grade A once threads are added, under the more strict rules that the government has set up. The thinking was, according to experts, to prevent poor quality batteries from finding their way in electric automobiles with subsequent risk of fire and other issues.
So, if you see 3rd party sellers offering threaded batteries as "grade A" they are taking liberty with the truth.
How fast can you take the voltage rate up?!
I wonder. Why is it that all these large cells usually have a 1C discharge rating, while smaller cells often have 5C+ or even 25C? Is the terminal the bottleneck to handle more current?
That is a good question. I imagine it has to do with the design of the cells, but also the terminals just don't have the surface area to do that kind of amperage.
@@TheWilltoBuild I guess model aircraft are pretty much the only market for batteries that last for 10 minutes. But it made me curious weather the actual battery could delivery it, if it had fatter terminals.
@@JohnDoe-ex8gf Terminals aside, I still don't think so. But I can't say for sure.
I just got my 8 batteries. They are a little swollen and at least 2 packs feel wet. What is happening do you think?
I am just unpacking them and the ones that feel wet in the styrofoam I am not unwrapping. These are Varicore from Aliexpress.
What do you suggest I do? One box of 4 were not wet but swollen enough I have to tilt the battery for them to hook together. Will the swelling go away?
Thanks for your help and advice. Enjoy your videos
I would dispute the transaction on aliexpress ASAP. Your cells should not be "wet". If they are wet or leaking, they are dangerous! You need to take proper precautions. Additionally, if you cells are swollen the swelling will not recede - the swelling is permanent and those are also a right off. Take pictures and dispute the charge because the leaking and swollen cells are unusable and need to be disposed of properly.
@@TheWilltoBuild Thank you so much. I have filed a dispute. Just received them today. The white foam on 2 batteries are soaked. How could they send me these batteries. Crazy
You should open them up. The Lishen is a laminate stack, the EVE is a jelly roll design. Completely different construction. It might explain why Lishen wants to be vertical though - to keep the electrolyte from pooling to one side. The EVE would not have that problem (I think) on its side
There is zero chance I open these up - the contents are toxic. But I would be surprised if they were actually different inside - I believe they are both laminate stack.
@@TheWilltoBuild Trust me - I do know - I have opened both. The EVE is a jelly roll. The Lishen is a Laminate stack. Yes- I have opened both of them. It is not so difficult or dangerous to do - first flatten the battery using large bleed resistors for several days. then carefully cut along the edges. No-- I did not get hurt. Send me your email address- I'll send you pictures
@@joecnc3341 I'd rather not post my email here, but if you look into my account info it is available and I'd love to see the pics.
Are these good for car audio? Can they be charged by an alternator? I currently use 24 headway 8ah cells, But open to other options.
I've got no direct experience here, but I've heard you want to use a specialized or adapted alternator. Just connecting them to the alternator is bad idea. For car audio, again, I'm not expert. But these cells can easily output 1C power, so they can push 280 ah.
Your Headway 8Ah cells are LiFePO4, right? And 200A? You understand that you would need 4 of these cells in series for the voltages to mostly work? Do you already have a good 4S BMS? I've seen a video where a guy recommended a cheap balancer that I would avoid. Let's say one of the cells in the 4S battery has a bit less capacity than the others. When the alternator is spitting out 14.4 V the big capacity cells will stop charging at say 3.575V while the smaller one goes to 3.675V, which is outside the spec and that cell quickly gets worse and worse over time. This is true for any LiFePO4 battery, whether it is made up with your Headway 8Ah cells or either of these 280Ah cells. Get a battery with a decent BMS included or build your own with a good BMS and it could work fine. And if you really want to get the most life out these cells then drop the max charging voltage at the battery down closer to 13.4 volts.
A car alternator will fry itself trying to charge these beasts. With 24 Headway cells wired for 12 volts, you have 48 amp hours worth of battery that can also be shown as 48ah x 12.8volts = 610 watt hours. A car battery is between 60 and 100 amp hours and almost never gets discharged fully. The problem with trying to charge 280 amp hour cells is that the alternator will run maxed out for several hours and overheat. It would take a 70 amp car alternator 4 hours to recharge 4 of the 280ah cells needed to make 12 volts. A car alternator and lead acid battery is made to put the full 70 amps out for a few minutes then taper the current way down when the battery is topped off. It will overheat if its maxed out for any length of time. They make large bus and ambulance alternators but they cost $1500-$3500.
By adding 4 of the 280ah cells, you have almost 3600 watt hours on tap. A 3600 watt amplifier can run for an hour. That's power! 8 of these 280's run my 10,000 btu window AC unit for 9 hours before cutoff. You would need about 140 Headway batteries to have the same power as 4 of these 280 amp hour cells.
Did you do 3000 cycles? That would be the main comparison
I have not.
trying to find ways of supplying 1300 amps @ 48v and all of these large lifepo4s are 1c, and i can't find a good lto or nmc seller.
Interesting - how long do you need to supply this kind of power for? The Lishen cells are rated for 2C for a very brief period, so a 16s3p setup could potentially work (at great cost). But there are also these for much less: batteryhookup.com/products/new-headway-38120-hp-3-2v-8ah-lifepo4-10-20-2020, they can output up to 200 amps. So if you do a 16s7p setup, you could put that kind of power (but only very briefly, max 2.4 minutes). But that kind of amperage is crazy, the wiring, busbars, etc, would have to very well thought out.
@@TheWilltoBuild not sure but looking at curtis motor controllers and the hpevs 34x2 the peak of 650 amp per controller is 60 sec, so continuous amp draw will be 400-500 amps to make 35 hp
@@dumbboatproject this is for a boat ? Like an electric boat? If that is the case, I would go for 16s4p, or better yet, 4 x 16s EVE or Lishen 280 ah cells. That would make roughly 56 KW. But you might want to start by estimating the KW per nautical mile, then estimating the total capacity you need given your desired range, then working back from there to what type of setup would work.
@@TheWilltoBuild range is a side effect of getting enough amps, but its for a sailboat.
@@dumbboatproject Unless I am misunderstanding, not typically. Amps are the amount of power you'll need to power the motor, so you need to make sure that whatever batteries you have can deliver the amperage you need. But how long you want to deliver that amperage determines your range. So whatever current you need to run the motor multiplied by the length of time you want to run the motor, determines the capacity you'll need.
The lishen say 280ah but will prowse found out they are actually speced at 272ah
Unless I am missing a video, you're incorrect. Could you share the link?
@@TheWilltoBuild I bought 8 of these. I think they are listing them as 280ah even though they are 272. th-cam.com/video/3U4ZfQ_IToI/w-d-xo.html
@@TheWilltoBuild also watch the whole video, turns out they are not eve and not 280ah
@@TheWilltoBuild I just thought of how you can check: he probably weighs them , check your weight. If he didn't weigh them I can weigh mine when they arrive
@@eksine they test at 272, so just short of 280, not 172. The Lishen are frequently advertised as both 272 and 280, but I think as long as they test about 270 that is fine.
Subbed!
Pressurised 280-320 kilos for EVE cells.
In spec it says "pre-tension", and cell could work up to 50000N
I am using both of these batteries. Seem Eve 270ah is more stable and better than Lishen 272ah
Interesting, can you be more specific?
Eve may have softer Aluminium terminals, easier to strip the threads
What are the dimensions of one of these cells? Thanks!
You can find the exact dimensions on the datasheet I linked, but roughly 174 mm wide, 201 mm tall, and 72 mm thick. I have another video where I compare them physically: th-cam.com/video/AAK-R80d7t0/w-d-xo.html
"100 amps for a 48 volt battery, or 50 amps for a 24 volt battery" Not following you here, can you explain?
Sorry, I can you give me more context? I hate watching my own videos and I can't figure out the context from this alone.
sir kindly write to me reply in shortly about my doubt EVE AND LISHEN Comparetively which one is better of them for using solar application
I'm sorry I don't follow your question.
@@TheWilltoBuild translation: I believe he is having doubts about whether to buy EVE or Lishen for his solar system and wishes you to weigh in on which would be better (incidentally, with slow
@@texas2cv looks like the question has been updated? Anyway, I agree with you. The cells seem to be almost indistinguishable really, so I think whichever set you secure at a better price would be my suggestion. Bus bars are nice, but I think they almost always include them.
Great video :)
What is the optimal operating temperature on these cells?
Great question. Optimal temperature is about 77 F or 25 C, but the acceptable range is 15 C ( 59 F) to 35 C (95 F). Charging and discharging can safely occur outside of these ranges, but this is the optimal range for longevity and health of the cells.
@@TheWilltoBuild Thank you!
I plan to install a new solar setup at my cabin with 32 of those cells at 48v.
Haha I would have to insulate the battery shed and add a heater in the winter to keep the batterys at 20c
Temperatures often dropp bellow -35 celsius at my cabin in Norway 🥶
@@TheJensss That is just optimal. At long as it is above 0 C, the battery is safe to charge and discharge. I would definitely recommend insulating it though and perhaps using a heat mat.
Did I miss something, or was this 8 minutes of, yeah, they're pretty much the same thing?
There are a few small differences, but yeah, very, very similar.
How about the price difference?
Good question. The prices change for these pretty regularly, but the Eve are generally more expensive. Sometimes as low as $10 more per cell, but I think when the Eve are in more short supply that gap can grow quite a bit larger. I've got affiliate links, so you can check for yourself at any time.
@@TheWilltoBuild I find out the price of Lifepo4 cell is generally cheaper in Alibaba than AliExpress even for the same brand and cell.
@@jeffsit_davidli.333 I agree, but alibaba is significantly more onerous to use for the average person. For most people it is just much easier to order from aliexpress.
I couldn't find either of these brands for a reasonable price on AliExpress, so I ordered 4 x 280Ah LiittoKala cells, which look similar to the EVE cells. There's also others "VarioCore", and "Blmpow", etc. which look like Lishen or EVE cells, perhaps they are made in the same factory. At any rate, you take some risk ordering any of these raw cells from China, yes they have some sort of warranty, but you have to pay for return shipping to China, may not be worth it. if one cell goes toes up, buy another one.
I have affiliate links for aliexpress above to these to these brands, but I 100% agree with you. You are taking a significant risk, people definitely get defective cells sometimes and the return/dispute process can be difficult or nonexistent. That said, the price is so much better that you could probably order twice what you need, just for redundancy, and still be paying less than if you bought a battery from a US company. So far my experience has been quite positive though.
Great video but try using a whiteboard or similar to show a side by side comparison without jumping all over the place and losing your viewers after the first minute. Remember its a comparison.
Fair enough. I'll probably be doing a final comparison after I've tested the EVE cells (already did a Lishen test and posted it).
Big battery is selling a lot of batteries with the leshen cels installed on their side.
And some people have had leakage issues.
And the welds in their cases are rubbing through the blue plastic liners.
I had to return mine because it had a cel that wouldn't balance.
Shipped it back to them 3 weeks ago.
Still waiting for my refund........
The pathetic thing is all those lesion and Eve batteries should have at least a 8 mm bolt fastener for the busbar connectors.
I personally the markup on those batteries is really high versus just building it yourself, but building your own battery is no joke, with very real risks, so I understand preferring to buy a full battery.
@@TheWilltoBuild
I purchased a manufactured battery do the fact of insurance possibly not covering things if something went wrong.
but it appears a lot of battery manufacturers are putting out some pretty shady products that are more dangerous than one assembled by the end user.
and the lack of information out there as to how to deal with leaks of hazardous materials and what to do with it is a total nightmare.
It took close to 15 request and I finally had to explain two big battery that they are legally required to send me a material data safety sheet on the batteries within.
The MSDS document they sent me was 3 years old and made it appear that it was no more dangerous than Windex.
@@crazywayne7051 that absolutely sucks, but thanks for sharing. It's important for people to know about the experiences others are having, good and bad, with battery makers.
@@TheWilltoBuild
Basically the only two battery manufacturers I would trust at this point are battleborn and sok.
Big battery ship my battery with no documentation or invoice.
And it took almost 25 days for them to finally send me a MSDS.
and that wasn't until I inform them that they are legally obligated to supply that to anyone who requested.
So in the meantime I did research.
Turns out these stateside battery assemblers are supposed to do a full test of the batteries before shipping them out.
And the printout is required to be signed by the technician.
And a copy of it is to be kept in the records for one year after the battery was received by a customer.
it would sure be nice if these battery manufacturers would slip a copy of this in with their battery.
That way there's evidence of the balance voltage and specs on a sheet.
And be careful because they like to change the link they actually did a bait and switch on me.
The link I clicked on was for one of their owl batteries that had 203 amp hours.
But they sent me one that was some sort of extreme version that was only 170 amp hours.
and when I remove the top cover to take a look inside it appeared as though there was a fire inside and white powder.
And the labeling on the BMS was less than the rated output of the battery.
So it's pretty much a buyer beware market out there.
I was concerned with liability shipping this thing back if it was leaking like others were.
I had the folks at battleborn take a look at it.
All I need to say is they were not impressed and gave me more reason not to ever purchase from #bigbattery.com ever.
Worst experience I've ever had.
They received the battery back on the 8th and will not respond to my emails.
I hate to have to reach out to PayPal to resolve this but that will be happening soon.
Oh and by the way if you purchase a battery and it doesn't have labeling stating its capacities in chemistry with hazardous logos on the side.
And you're driving through Canada and get stopped.
The Canadian authorities can seize the batteries and possibly your vehicle.
You will most likely be fined and have to pay for the disposal of the hazardous material on top of it.
It's just amazing what some companies can get away with.
Please get a tripod - would be much easier to watch.
fair enough, I've actually already purchased one.