If you use a 8 washers and put rubber bushings between the washers before you snug up the all thread it'll go right along with the rubber roof material and secure the cells but keep that pressure much more consistent. Some people use a spring between the washers but rubber or silicone bushings are like 2 dollars and is kinda better in my opinion. Thanks for the videos
Excellent run down. Thanks. Exactly what I did with my 16 cells as well. Not sure of the value of the aluminium. (Really I don't know). Some differences; I used nyloc nuts instead and I split the pack into 4 so to make them more "handleable" (20kg/44lb (4 cells) vs 40kg/88lb (8 cells). However my application is mobile - very rough conditions in a camper trailer.
@@TheWilltoBuild Each battery of 4 cells has a 3/4" base and the set will sit on a 3/4" EPS foam in the camper. All securely anchored to the trailer frame. I imagine the worse case is the trailer rolls, so water tanks and batteries must remain in place regardless. I'm wondering too how much to compress the batteries - I know the minimum amount is that required to stop the batteries moving relative to each other in any orientation, but not sure how hard I can squeeze the cells before I pop them! The plastic I used for separators is a poly damp-course roll from our local Bunnings (hardware warehouse here in Australia)
Someone suggested making the plywood a little bigger and cut slots into it so you could slip in plexiglass to protect the battery. And one other used fish paper for the cell to cell protection.
I'm building an 8S battery for rv use and have plywood side panels as well to protect it in case something moves an rubs against the sides. Also I have a 1/4" plexiglass top to protect the terminals. The side panels also allow for battery terminal mounting as well as the BMS
Thanks for putting this out, I used your and Lithium solar's setups with a slight variation to do my setup. I also added a link to your channel, I hope that is ok.
Rubber roof material is the best stuff to use between your cells and on the ends. Then snug up the all thread. When cells swell a tiny bit they keep a more consistent pressure. If you don't use some kinda spring or rubber then the pressure changes a little much for my liking. Just a thought tho
Nice approach! Just curius how 16 cells in series will react against two stiff plates at the ends when charging from zero to 100% SOC and expanding 16x0,5 mm where there is noo room. EVE just states: "300kgf clamp" which is not assuring very much.
For the tightness ~ I saw a video a year or so ago that the Lock-washer just compress the washer flat on all 8 - 4 each side is very close to the average number for most 3.2v Lithium batteries ! The Blond headed guy has an inch pounds torque ranch ! Great video !
Great video. If I may make a suggestion, swap out the aluminum bar stock at the ends for 1"x1/8" or thicker angle steel or aluminum. C channel would be even better. The rigidity of the plywood is much better than 1/8" aluminum. Steel C channel would be the best & alow the use of a thin insulator (cut down thin cutting board sheet) & omit the plywood.
Thanks for the suggestion. The point of the plywood, at least for me, is to apply the pressure evenly to the cells at the ends. Just having C channel or a bar across them would be no good, and potentially even dig into the cells/through the insulation. But given the plywood, I view the point of the aluminum less for its rigidity (although it helps), and more so it can take the washer/nut and be tightened. Skipping the aluminum and just doing plywood would result in the washer getting pressed into the wood, and probably having that compact and loosen over time. But I do agree with you, thicker steel or angle aluminum would probably be slightly better, but I honestly think this works pretty well.
@@TheWilltoBuild True true. I understand not wanting the nuts to bite the plywood & sink in over time. Prismatic batteries definitely need insulation between the cell & compression strap. I had assumed it would be a temporary setup with the plywood. I think a 1/4"+ plastic cutting board with an aluminum C channel would be a great "in use" setup. And with insulation on the threaded rod, would probably make a great mobile (RV) solution.
@@pau1phi11ips I was thinking about rigidity vs space. In an RV application making things as compact as possible may prove valuable. Plywood is completely fine. At the end of the day a thin plastic insulator & a "C" or" L" shape aluminum strap would be about the same size.
I had read for the tightness the lock washer flatten the 4 lock washers is very close to what is asked for . If anyone has a more specific answer please let me know ! I’m always read to learn !!
Hello from the high desert of New Mexico USA 🇺🇸. I hope we get our stimulus check so I can replace my old AGM batteries that won't hold a charge. I plan on building a 4s4p life4o battery with a QUCC bms and I do plan on compressing the cells but I plan on using Springs on the ends . My question is what seller do you recommend for real grade A 280 300 ah cells because I am very poor and can only afford to buy cells once if I get my stimulus check. Keep up the good work and stay safe and charged
That is a good question. Honestly, the sellers change alot. Go here: diysolarforum.com/ and read up on what people are saying are the suppliers they most recently used. That is your best bet to get cells without issue.
Yeah, I've been hearing a lot of that. Delivery for these has always been all over the place, sometimes a month, sometimes much, much longer. Good luck and hope you get them soon.
For a home setup am I better off having a bunch of smaller (4 or 8s) batteries with individual BMS’s in series together to get 48V or should I just go ahead and make everything 16s with a single BMS for each 16s module?
16s with a single bms for sure. Multiple bms is an unnecessary cost and the the potential for problems with bms variation also... There is a reason why battleborn says the max series for their battery's is 4.
@@TheWilltoBuild so did i misunderstand last months video when you said you prefer the 4s2p two batteries with two bms? I liked the point you made about if one battery goes down you can take it off line and still have a working battery. Im not trying to be sarcastic, just wondering before i buy the equipment and end up with an inferior battery bank. For the cost of a 132 dollar overkill bms with temperature control i think the reasoning is well worth it. As long as the two bms can be paralled, and there isn't a need for separate mppt chargers and other components?
@@checkingoutgypsymike2075 Great question, I understand your confusion. I definitely prefer two batteries to one, IF the alternative is one battery but with cells in parallel. But, it is always better do higher voltages and do as little paralleling as possible. This is because cells prefer to be in series than in parallel, and higher voltages move more power over the same size wire. So, if you have 16 cells, a 16s battery is better than 2 8s batteries. BUT, if you have to have a 24 volt system, it is better to do two 8s batteries and wire them in parallel, then it is to one 24v battery where you do 2p8s (two cells in series, which is then wired to 8s). Does this make sense?
Great question, in this case it doesn't. Airflow is really only necessary to cool the cells, but considering these cells can safely discharge at around 280 amps, and my system will only never pull 150 amps, cooling isn't really an issue. If you are going to charge and discharge at high rates and thus potentially heat your cells up, you'll want to think about putting something rigid between them that will still allow airflow.
This is a really good question. I wouldn't compress fully charged or fully discharged cells, because when cells are fully charged or discharged is when you get expansion - which we are trying to prevent. I am not sure what compressing an expanded cell would do, but it likely isn't good. The point of compression is to prevent expansion, not reverse it. So to be safe, I would have the cells somewhere between 10% and 90% when I do the compression.
@@TheWilltoBuild there was debate if you compress not fully charged battery and then charge it fully overtime that over pressure will eventually damage cell as well it went into so scientific discussion that at this time I dont think compression would matter for average users
Basic busbars usually come with the cells. Because the space between the terminals varies with each cell, you'll have to make custom busbars if you want something beefier. I bought my copper from onlinemetals.com. For the studs, check out this video: th-cam.com/video/YthfWzw_lVk/w-d-xo.html
Some people say on these cells to compress to 6nm with a torque wrench some say 12psi don't know what that is in nm off the top of my head. I have read the spec sheet for my cells and it doesn't mention what compression to use
yeah its really unclear. It seems like the compression fad has passed as well because alot of people aren't even bothering anymore. Just don't make them too tight, err on the side of being too loose.
Let me add to your statement about wearing glasses while cutting aluminum with an angle grinder....if you are cutting aluminum you will need to wear a respirator as well and do so in a very well ventilated area as aluminum dust is both bad for breathing in and EXPLOSIVE.
Glasses, yes. People (aircraft mechanics) work with aluminum all their careers and never have any real problem with aluminum dust. Why are you trying to scare people?
Si para obtener 6000ciclos el fabricante ,pide 25 grados y compresión de 300kg y ya no cumplimos lo primero, mantener a 25 grados constantes no es facil y tampoco aplicamos compresion ,luego de 2000ciclos ya no hay mas
Express, compress, depress, free press, suppress, impress, bacon press. Dumb. If you have to compress you need larger battery bank. It's a much better option than squeezing a few more amps out of a battery. I cannot stress enough not to compress. Don't press your battery.
That is at best 3/8" rod, not 3/4".... Flat aluminum is worthless, alum., angle not much better.. Better yet, use steel angle.. OOPS! Then you changed to 1/4" rod..!! LOL! As a minimum, 5/16" or even 3/8" rod would have been better .. You could have used the plastic cutting board material between the rod and batts, too...
If you use a 8 washers and put rubber bushings between the washers before you snug up the all thread it'll go right along with the rubber roof material and secure the cells but keep that pressure much more consistent. Some people use a spring between the washers but rubber or silicone bushings are like 2 dollars and is kinda better in my opinion. Thanks for the videos
Excellent run down. Thanks.
Exactly what I did with my 16 cells as well. Not sure of the value of the aluminium. (Really I don't know).
Some differences; I used nyloc nuts instead and I split the pack into 4 so to make them more "handleable" (20kg/44lb (4 cells) vs 40kg/88lb (8 cells). However my application is mobile - very rough conditions in a camper trailer.
Definitely makes sense. Did you anything else different to for camper setup?
@@TheWilltoBuild Each battery of 4 cells has a 3/4" base and the set will sit on a 3/4" EPS foam in the camper. All securely anchored to the trailer frame. I imagine the worse case is the trailer rolls, so water tanks and batteries must remain in place regardless.
I'm wondering too how much to compress the batteries - I know the minimum amount is that required to stop the batteries moving relative to each other in any orientation, but not sure how hard I can squeeze the cells before I pop them!
The plastic I used for separators is a poly damp-course roll from our local Bunnings (hardware warehouse here in Australia)
Someone suggested making the plywood a little bigger and cut slots into it so you could slip in plexiglass to protect the battery.
And one other used fish paper for the cell to cell protection.
He visto videos y estas se aprietan bastante cuando son para Ev con 2 abrazaderas
I'm building an 8S battery for rv use and have plywood side panels as well to protect it in case something moves an rubs against the sides. Also I have a 1/4" plexiglass top to protect the terminals. The side panels also allow for battery terminal mounting as well as the BMS
I like that, makes sense.
Thanks for putting this out, I used your and Lithium solar's setups with a slight variation to do my setup. I also added a link to your channel, I hope that is ok.
more than ok!
Rubber roof material is the best stuff to use between your cells and on the ends. Then snug up the all thread. When cells swell a tiny bit they keep a more consistent pressure. If you don't use some kinda spring or rubber then the pressure changes a little much for my liking. Just a thought tho
Put insulation on the sides and bottom also for an RV install.
I like the idea of compression, and don’t understand why people say not to.
Nice approach! Just curius how 16 cells in series will react against two stiff plates at the ends when charging from zero to 100% SOC and expanding 16x0,5 mm where there is noo room.
EVE just states: "300kgf clamp" which is not assuring very much.
Good job looks beautiful
I built one like that nice but very heavy about 100lbs mite split into four cell batterys and plug them together 👍
I did the same. I have a 16s system but I did two sets of 8, otherwise it would just be too large and cumbersome.
For the tightness ~ I saw a video a year or so ago that the Lock-washer just compress the washer flat on all 8 - 4 each side is very close to the average number for most 3.2v Lithium batteries ! The Blond headed guy has an inch pounds torque ranch ! Great video !
Great video. If I may make a suggestion, swap out the aluminum bar stock at the ends for 1"x1/8" or thicker angle steel or aluminum. C channel would be even better. The rigidity of the plywood is much better than 1/8" aluminum. Steel C channel would be the best & alow the use of a thin insulator (cut down thin cutting board sheet) & omit the plywood.
Thanks for the suggestion. The point of the plywood, at least for me, is to apply the pressure evenly to the cells at the ends. Just having C channel or a bar across them would be no good, and potentially even dig into the cells/through the insulation. But given the plywood, I view the point of the aluminum less for its rigidity (although it helps), and more so it can take the washer/nut and be tightened. Skipping the aluminum and just doing plywood would result in the washer getting pressed into the wood, and probably having that compact and loosen over time. But I do agree with you, thicker steel or angle aluminum would probably be slightly better, but I honestly think this works pretty well.
@@TheWilltoBuild True true. I understand not wanting the nuts to bite the plywood & sink in over time. Prismatic batteries definitely need insulation between the cell & compression strap. I had assumed it would be a temporary setup with the plywood. I think a 1/4"+ plastic cutting board with an aluminum C channel would be a great "in use" setup. And with insulation on the threaded rod, would probably make a great mobile (RV) solution.
@@kylesmith2120 what have you got against the plywood? It looks fine to me.
@@pau1phi11ips I was thinking about rigidity vs space. In an RV application making things as compact as possible may prove valuable. Plywood is completely fine. At the end of the day a thin plastic insulator & a "C" or" L" shape aluminum strap would be about the same size.
I really like your presentations
I had read for the tightness the lock washer flatten the 4 lock washers is very close to what is asked for . If anyone has a more specific answer please let me know ! I’m always read to learn !!
Hello from the high desert of New Mexico USA 🇺🇸. I hope we get our stimulus check so I can replace my old AGM batteries that won't hold a charge. I plan on building a 4s4p life4o battery with a QUCC bms and I do plan on compressing the cells but I plan on using Springs on the ends . My question is what seller do you recommend for real grade A 280 300 ah cells because I am very poor and can only afford to buy cells once if I get my stimulus check. Keep up the good work and stay safe and charged
That is a good question. Honestly, the sellers change alot. Go here: diysolarforum.com/ and read up on what people are saying are the suppliers they most recently used. That is your best bet to get cells without issue.
Hola en caso de tener una llave dinamometrica cuantos kg de presion 24,30
FSM forbid the eight Lishen cells I ordered *two months ago* actually ship :P
Yeah, I've been hearing a lot of that. Delivery for these has always been all over the place, sometimes a month, sometimes much, much longer. Good luck and hope you get them soon.
For a home setup am I better off having a bunch of smaller (4 or 8s) batteries with individual BMS’s in series together to get 48V or should I just go ahead and make everything 16s with a single BMS for each 16s module?
16s with a single bms for sure. Multiple bms is an unnecessary cost and the the potential for problems with bms variation also... There is a reason why battleborn says the max series for their battery's is 4.
I agree 100%.
@@TheWilltoBuild so did i misunderstand last months video when you said you prefer the 4s2p two batteries with two bms? I liked the point you made about if one battery goes down you can take it off line and still have a working battery. Im not trying to be sarcastic, just wondering before i buy the equipment and end up with an inferior battery bank. For the cost of a 132 dollar overkill bms with temperature control i think the reasoning is well worth it. As long as the two bms can be paralled, and there isn't a need for separate mppt chargers and other components?
@@checkingoutgypsymike2075 Great question, I understand your confusion. I definitely prefer two batteries to one, IF the alternative is one battery but with cells in parallel. But, it is always better do higher voltages and do as little paralleling as possible. This is because cells prefer to be in series than in parallel, and higher voltages move more power over the same size wire. So, if you have 16 cells, a 16s battery is better than 2 8s batteries. BUT, if you have to have a 24 volt system, it is better to do two 8s batteries and wire them in parallel, then it is to one 24v battery where you do 2p8s (two cells in series, which is then wired to 8s). Does this make sense?
I bought my cutting boards from Walmart !
Do the cells not expand on their sides as well?
perhaps, but not really in my experience. I haven't seen anyone do pressure on the side and I honestly think it would be quite hard to do.
How does the air flow between cells work?
Great question, in this case it doesn't. Airflow is really only necessary to cool the cells, but considering these cells can safely discharge at around 280 amps, and my system will only never pull 150 amps, cooling isn't really an issue. If you are going to charge and discharge at high rates and thus potentially heat your cells up, you'll want to think about putting something rigid between them that will still allow airflow.
@@TheWilltoBuild I agree, cooling is not an issue for low charge and discharge currents.
Is your battery fully charged before you compressed?
This is a really good question. I wouldn't compress fully charged or fully discharged cells, because when cells are fully charged or discharged is when you get expansion - which we are trying to prevent. I am not sure what compressing an expanded cell would do, but it likely isn't good. The point of compression is to prevent expansion, not reverse it. So to be safe, I would have the cells somewhere between 10% and 90% when I do the compression.
@@TheWilltoBuild there was debate if you compress not fully charged battery and then charge it fully overtime that over pressure will eventually damage cell as well it went into so scientific discussion that at this time I dont think compression would matter for average users
Claro que el apriete seria en diagonal y progresivo como cuando aprietas una culata de motor
Hey wondering if there is a reason why you made them in 2 separate packs?
Just for convenience, thought it would just be easier to do it this way. Definitely could have gone all in one though.
👍🏼
Anyone know where to buy those battery posts and busbars at reasonable prices?
Basic busbars usually come with the cells. Because the space between the terminals varies with each cell, you'll have to make custom busbars if you want something beefier. I bought my copper from onlinemetals.com. For the studs, check out this video: th-cam.com/video/YthfWzw_lVk/w-d-xo.html
@@TheWilltoBuild Thanks a bunch
How many days must compress?
This compression is permanent. As long as I am using them I am leaving them compressed.
Entonces he puesto 3 barras por lado ,estaria bien 50 kg por barra eso hace un total de 300kg
Torque: 3nM for 4 nuts on each end.
Thanks for the pointer. What makes you happy with that spec?
Eso segun especificacion del fabricante son 661,387 libras
Some people say on these cells to compress to 6nm with a torque wrench some say 12psi don't know what that is in nm off the top of my head.
I have read the spec sheet for my cells and it doesn't mention what compression to use
yeah its really unclear. It seems like the compression fad has passed as well because alot of people aren't even bothering anymore. Just don't make them too tight, err on the side of being too loose.
Let me add to your statement about wearing glasses while cutting aluminum with an angle grinder....if you are cutting aluminum you will need to wear a respirator as well and do so in a very well ventilated area as aluminum dust is both bad for breathing in and EXPLOSIVE.
Glasses, yes. People (aircraft mechanics) work with aluminum all their careers and never have any real problem with aluminum dust. Why are you trying to scare people?
Si para obtener 6000ciclos el fabricante ,pide 25 grados y compresión de 300kg y ya no cumplimos lo primero, mantener a 25 grados constantes no es facil y tampoco aplicamos compresion ,luego de 2000ciclos ya no hay mas
3/4¿😂 Maybe 3/8”. I think 5/16" might be thick enough. I'm going to try 1/4" rods.
Great Heads Up !
3/4 inch zinc rods to 1/4 inch rods at end of video... . 1/4 inch is more than enough
I agree.
Express, compress, depress, free press, suppress, impress, bacon press. Dumb. If you have to compress you need larger battery bank. It's a much better option than squeezing a few more amps out of a battery. I cannot stress enough not to compress. Don't press your battery.
It’s about maximum cell life and cycle numbers. It’s following manufacturers specifications.
That is at best 3/8" rod, not 3/4".... Flat aluminum is worthless, alum., angle not much better.. Better yet, use steel angle.. OOPS! Then you changed to 1/4" rod..!! LOL! As a minimum, 5/16" or even 3/8" rod would have been better .. You could have used the plastic cutting board material between the rod and batts, too...
The aluminum is mostly there to take the washers - the rigidity is really coming from the plywood. Good point about the cutting board for the sides.
this is not correct and a waste of time. miss infomation spread by people that dont understand anything
How many days must compress?
I keep them compressed all the time.