Hello everyone. We've been experimenting with a bit of a podcast (a few people were asking for audio versions so they can get Biographics while doing other things)! Fair warning: none of these are new biographies, but rather me having a bit more of a free form chat around the script. I'd love to know what you think, if these are useful, wanted etc :). Thanks, Simon. Links: iTunes: itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/biographics-history-one-life-at-a-time/id1450405839?mt=2 Sitcher: www.stitcher.com/podcast/biographics-history-one-life-at-a-time Website: biographics.blubrry.net/ RSS: biographics.blubrry.net/feed/podcast/ Spotify: open.spotify.com/album/6N9PS4QXF1D0OWPk0Sxtb4 Trolled people: open.spotify.com/show/0JzjzwJcRqFZ3BcACtahh8?si=MG5HSm1oT0GTNm_r8_HQcg
It's rather unfortunate that he's often coupled with Jesse James. Billy and Jesse were nothing alike morality-wise, as far as I'm aware. Different lives, different souls.
Local Goverments are still Corrupt. Where I live is very corrupted. Read the Arkansas Times article A Killing in Pocahontas. There was a terrible murder 22 years ago at Dalton Ark.
Yeah I feel like in the beginning he truly fought for the little guy. I think he first a old west hero then a killer. Maybe if he died during the Lincoln county wars he'd have a different image today. Though those that fought injustices in those days are rarely remembered now, usually its presidents or senators or famous tall tales peeps like Paul Bunyan who are remembered today. Still dig wild bill and Samuel Clemons(Mark Twain)
@@schwarzwald6672 justice is more commonplace than we're lead to think, but there is a double profit motive involved. hiding our noble action is meaningful in preserving it, and it also serves the ones who subsist from perpetual injustice. people don't go flaunting their good deeds or else it's petty and vain, losers don't go telling everyone about the time they got their "just desserts", and if the world were so inclined to show us that life is in a pretty little bubble, someone is bound to pop it. in fact, someone always does
To be fair, if my mother died of tuberculosis when I was 15 and then my step father heartlessly left me to die in the New Mexico desert - I wouldn't be a saint either
A game that many people probably never heard of called "Gun" is what got me into the wild west. Than Red Dead Redemption came along and just solidified my interest in it.
it seems that he was not the "cold-blooded killer” of legend, simply fighting for his survival in highly dangerous times & against a number of corrupt individuals & government officials. seems that history really is written by the victors!
If history is written by the victors, then where did all these suppose facts for this video come from? Just because someone made a video does not make it more accurate or truthful than the written records. Furthermore, to fight for survival does not automatically mean one must be a robber, thief or murderer. That is just an excuse all criminals use - I had to rob, steal, kill, etc. because I had didn't have a good childhood.
@@JS-ob4oh might i suggest that, as did we all watching this, you grew up with vastly different circumstances & conditions &, were we subject to same as him, we may also follow a similar path. I do take your point however, it's that i wonder what I would do given the same 'lot'.
Billy the kids story was tragic, orphaned at 13 and by the time he was 15 left with very little options it was only a matter of time he went on the path of darkness. He had good qualities, was considered a strong leader, quick witted, didn’t fold under pressure. Billy the kid, what happens when someone with nothing to lose.
0:45 - Chapter 1 - Early life 2:50 - Chapter 2 - On his own 4:05 - Chapter 3 - Fugitive 5:40 - Chapter 4 - The kid emerges 7:05 - Chapter 5 - The lincoln county war 12:50 - Mid roll ads 13:55 - Chapter 6 - A false amnesty 15:15 - Chapter 7 - Most wanted 15:55 - Chapter 8 - Enter pat garett
@@wolfy9549 Most of it is not true at all. Some is. Pat Garret and Billy were not best friends or even really friends at all. Chavez was a mexican and Doc was real. One of them did shoot sheriff brady. Billy really did escape jaila nd someone planted a gun at the outhouse he used. But most of young guns is just fiction.
Billy: "Hey Peppin, is that Charlie Crawford with you?" Marshal:"Yeah that's right he's here." [Gunshot] Billy:"Hey Peppin Charlie Crawford ain't with ya no more" Best line in young guns
Abandoned at 15 years old: With no job the kid was left with no choice, but to do what he had to do to survive. Hung around with bad crooks. So, so sad!!!
We always have choices. In retrospect, Billy's choices were ultimately bad ones; but at the time, they probably were the ones that seemed like the best options of those available. We can't blame him for the options he chose when his back was to the wall. We can blame him for the ones when he had other, more clear, options. What's sad is that he died young and in part due to the government not holding up their end of the bargain. His life may have ended different had he been given his pardon.
The same could be said about Bob Olinger. He was also a gang member turned deputy (which was not uncommon in the Old West) and he was on the opposing side in the Lincoln County War. Apparently while Billy was in custody Bob Olinger harassed him the whole time, so like the blacksmith he ended up being shot by Billy. Billy was someone with intense loyalties, if you were helpful towards him he respected you, but if you got on his bad side then you better hope he doesn't have a firearm within reach.
@@RU-zm7wj it's the wild west you docile non-survivor. I hope people would've took you serious back in the day after getting punked. Stop putting your feelings out there, if everyone reacted the same way you did, we'd be in our bedrooms, commenting your sour comments. Is someone with money, a job, family and everything willing to do that? It just shows you're not willing to understand and thats a sign of bias and an abortion of justice. I wouldn't wanna be anywhere around you, you use emotion instead of logic.
seriousoy. all these "the last time I was this early" posts are already old/over. save yourself the time and make this your last "the last time I was this early" post. Thanks
Billy the Kid is a folk hero to most people I know, myself included, and a figure of interest to everyone I know. It is quite sad that he was snitched on by his loved ones own brother. He was smart as a whip, quick to act, and extremely respectful of cultural differences. I think this is a truly important aspect to pull from in the information presented.
You failed to mention the incident in which two time travelers from San Dimas recruited Mr. The Kid to speak at their History presentation in 1989, nor the ensuing most excellent adventures up to and including escaping from yet another jail with the help of said time travelers.
Poor kid lived a tragic short life. He was clearly a product of his chaotic environment and had the potential to be a better human being. Hopefully things turned out better for him in his next life.
Billy's escape from the jail in Lincoln County is one of those incidents that needs to be looked at by historians. He shot two deputies but escaped, no one tried to get a gun and stop him. According to legend he didn't actually steal a horse to escape but it was loaned to him and later returned. They may have also helped him escape and he gave a speech. I think for many in the region that there was bad feelings that still lingered on after the Lincoln County War of which Billy was on the opposing side and I think many resented the Santa Fe Ring and how they apparently got away with murder. Thinking about the shooting of Sheriff Brady, of which Billy was only one of several shooters, in modern times the Sheriff would have been charged with murder for hire especially with the shooting of John Tunstall.
I grew up in New Mexico seeing the name “Billy the Kid” on memorials and legends everywhere down south but never knew much about him. This was very interesting! I learned a lot about both Billy and New Mexico’s history I never knew!
I disagree in part. In many ways, he chose certain things that led further and further towards what he ultimately became. But yes, he was placed in circumstances too. I just don't think everyone would have turned out the same. We have to give credit to human choice too.
@@lexingtonconcord8751 while most of his early choices didn't help where he ended up, it seems when employed to tunstol, he may have been trying to turn his life around. Again, not saying that justifies his earlier years.
There's a museum down the lane from Billy's grave, but it was closed when we passed through. They actually had to erect a cage around his headstone because it's been stolen so many times. It looks a lot like a jail cell, come to think of it. Kudos to whomever it was that left the .357 magnum round just on the inside of the perimeter, I thought it a nice touch.
Highly entertaining as always, I'd recommend a bio on Doc Holiday and/or Wyatt Earp. The format of these vids really suits the old west narratives, imo
Billy the Kid was an amazing individual, he lived the way he was forced to, the only way he knew, Billy was not a heartless killer; alright he shouldn't have killed the two guards who were only guarding him but all the others he was provoked and it being the wild west Billy only did what he felt he had to. So no in my opinion Billy wasn't a cold blooded killer just a young man trying to live his life the best he can.
I never know what sources to trust but am pretty sure it’s widely accepted that Ollinger tormented Billy so that murder was likely pure spite. I believe Billy went out of his way to kill him with Ollinger’s own gun that he had proudly boasted about having. It’s also said that he regretted killing Bell (the other guard) because Bell had been good to him. It’s speculated that it’s highly possible/maybe likely that an accomplice had left a gun for Billy in the outhouse, not that Billy wrestled Bell’s away from him. I believe it was reported that Bell’s gun was still in his holster. But that Bell lunged for Billy’s gun vs letting him escape so Billy was ‘forced’ to kill him to be able to.
This is a great series for informative and engaging videos. Any time I need to write something about an important person in history, I come to this channel. Good job, keep it up!
I have circled back around to watch many of your videos again Simon. Speaking of Brilliant, i find you and your team's sense of humor brilliant. (see what id did there ;) ) *** A thought came to mind... i think Biographics video for Sitting BUll, and possibly Geronimo would be amazing. *** Just my thoughts.
@joe dwyer I will not *chill.* The *Navajo* have been on this soil for a very long time and this is not the 1st video in which he has mispronounced the Tribe's name. He could have looked up the correct pronouciatiation but he didn't.
Are you a relative of John Tunstall??? If so, that is awesome! I grew up watching Young Guns, still one of my favorite movies to this day! I was obsessed as a kid with the story and John Tunstall's name will be forever imprinted in my memory. My girlfriend is related to Doc Holiday if you've ever seen the movie Tombstone.
I've always thought the main photo of Billy the Kid, standing with the rifle, was a posthumous prop-up. Look closely at his eyes and mouth, he looks unconscious at least, I think he looks dead. Taking photos of people after they'd died was a common practice in the 19th century. Often people would have photos taken of their newly deceased loved ones for remembrance. Queen Victoria had one taken of her beloved, newly deceased husband, Prince Albert, and had it placed above her pillow, where she kept it for the remainder of her life, nearly forty years. Props, wooden and otherwise, were commonly used for posthumous photography. There would be a substantial fee paid by a newspaper for a photo of Billy the Kid, given how his fame as an outlaw had spread throughout the US. It might have been arranged by Garrett himself, and there would have been a photographer in Fort Sumner to get the job done quickly before burying him. To bury him without photographing him would have been to give away a sizeable sum. The other photo of Billy the Kid, with the croquet stick, is highly disputed. It the man or boy looks a bit like the main one, particularly the hat, but it's unlikely Billy was much of a croquet player, and people have also pointed to tree species in the photo which weren't prevalent where he lived. It's a real long shot.
Chris P Bacon If it had been a post-mortem 'prop-up' picture of Billy, it's appearance in newspapers would have been documented, as would the taking of it. Several local officials were called out to examine the body and confirm its identity. Why do none of their statements mention photographic evidence being recorded? The original ferrotye was owned by Dan Dedrik, a former Regulator associate who left the area around a year before Billy's death. Billy gave him the picture, which stayed in his family, unpublished for years after the event, so I really don't see how your theory is plausible.
@@babiryeethel8582 The wanted posters you're talking about aren't genuine, they're modern mockups for people to put on their games-room walls. No wanted posters from Billy the Kid's life are known to have survived. The closest thing to a surviving reward notice is one that appeared as an ad in the Las Vegas Gazette and the Santa Fe New Mexican newspapers, but it carried no picture.
@@Paddy.C Maybe Dan just said he was given it by Billy. I'm no expert, it's just that the face looks like a lot of the posthumous pictures, which were relatively common then, that I've seen. Just a theory but who knows. Stranger things have happened.
Chris P Bacon True, stranger things have happened. But, given the weight of evidence (no record of a posthumous picture being taken, no newspaper publishing it, the man who owned it having been a known associate of Billy's who left the area well before his death), I still think it's highly implausible. Besides which, the 'propped' photographs imitating still-life were more a keepsake that loved ones would pay to have done as a memento. If you look at the pictures taken of Western outlaws after their death, like Jesse James or Dirty Dave Rudabaugh, they show a dead body (or in Dave's case, a disembodied head), which much better accompanies the report of someone meeting their end. But hey, we're all entitled to our own opinion.
What happened to the oliver cromwell video. Saw it bit it became private. Really wanted to see that one so if you could attend it ,that would be appreciated
@@h_curly6384 heard off Phillip defranco show that TH-cam had a glitch which did just that. Make videos private. It was also troublesome to make it public.
AZTECECONOMICS has one called Cromwell the king killer. If you hurry you might be able to catch it before they remove it. I just watched it, so it was still up as a couple days ago.
Pat Garrett not only claimed to have killed Billy, he was also his biographer. This is a retelling of Garrett's account and not necessarily the true story of Billy The Kid's life. Garrett was a heavy drinker, he shot three people trying to get Billy. The third one was buried quickly and was the one he claimed to be the real BTK. The governor refused to give him the reward because there was no proof he had killed Billy.
I've always been fascinated by the story of Billy the Kid, in part because my life has paralleled his in some ways: I'm from an immigrant family (born in Germany); I grew up in the Midwest (Wisconsin); I moved to New Mexico to re-start my life; I found work--and acceptance--in an area that's almost entirely Hispanic, learning to speak (broken) Spanish and working alongside Mexican immigrants, digging trenches, doing landscaping and construction work. In fact, I'm the only "Anglo" at my job. The similarities end there, however. I never got involved in any county-wide feuds, never killed anyone, never stole horses, lol. Still, the old wild west mentality continues to permeate this area, and I do have to be on my guard and aware of my surroundings, so to speak. I'm still on the fence about Billy the Kid's reputation, as are a lot of people in New Mexico. I'm certain he killed people, but it's hard to get a good grasp on what really happened in each case, since it was a fairly lawless time, and there were no CCTV cameras or DNA tests to set records straight. Most news was nothing more than gossip, and--as Simply Legendary has said in this comment section--many law enforcement people in the old west were corrupt. A few years ago, Governor Bill Richardson reconsidered Billy's case in order to determine whether or not to issue a formal pardon for his misdeeds--and he denied the pardon. I'm not sure what he based his decision on, and I'm not sure if it was the right decision. My gut tells me that Billy the Kid was railroaded and used as a scapegoat, but my gut hasn't been certified by FBI as a CSI tool.
It's even more likely that he was an illegitimate child. Single mothers of good reputation were given the courtesy of being called "widows" in order to spare them some shame and gossip. Immigration and the Civil War gave people a lot of room to imagine nameless dead fathers, and at least for the mothers, it was better to be a widow than to openly recognize that you had a child out of wedlock.
Yes. Bad food, no vaccines and little medical care, besides the civil war, wiped out millions of men before they turned thirty. Young people of 14 routinely married because they were only young and strong for a few years. A mans usefulness was impaired drastically by 40, IF he survived animal attacks, Indians, gunfights, and syphilis from the occasional night on the town. Even having a cavity in those days could give you a fatal infection with no antibiotics. Believe me, these are the good old days!!
I was reading the wiki on BtK and thought; "Intriguing, I want more detail. I wonder if Simon and the biographics team did a piece on him?" and here we are. Many thanks for this. May the God you don't believe in keep blessing the work you do Simon.
@Ed Fynster It is if the criminal was a keystone moment in history for an organization like the F.B.I. Dillinger was the first most infamous/famous high profile criminal they went after that they laid all their reputation on trying to capture. Capturing him was not like capturing Billy the Kid. He was their first, "Ladies and gentle men... we got'em," moment. There were others before but he was the criminal they risked a lot of their reputation to capture. If they lost the F.B.I. would not become what it is today.
We appreciate your need for sponsorship and don't disagree with it. It's breaking up the pacing of the story when you can easily put the ad before/after that we take issue with
Billy kept his word and testified in open court then Lew Wallace just leaves the New Mexico territory and never even attempts to keep his side of the deal. Terrible! I have always wondered what would have happened if Lew Wallace wasn't such a creep.
my grandfather has always claimed to be relatives to billy the kid. I was told my great- great grandmother was billy the kids sister. apparently they are buried next to each other in silver city. my grand father also told me that he died much older in bayard NM. if any of that is true. I dont know, but its fun to speculate
Two things, one Billy and I share the same birthday November 23rd I've always been very proud of that fact in a way. Also , according to another documentary I watched on Billy's life it was said that he said who is it in Spanish quienes.
It seemed appropriate to watch this in Albuquerque. I drive long haul and I’ve been through pretty much all of the Old West. Some of my ancestors lived out here. There were outlaws and lawmen, cowboys and Indians in my family. Dad grew up on dairy farms near Kingman, AZ and I still have family all over Arizona. It’s like I can feel the Old West sometimes when I’m driving through the vast open spaces and nothing has changed aside from a ribbon of asphalt and my Freightliner passing through on a journey to faraway lands.
Enjoy being read to and I have seen so many videos on Billy the kid... I feel I have learned from this story and now feel I know him even better. Thank you. I loved all the Pictures too.
Hey! Loved this video, I was curious as to if you have done or will consider doing a video on Doc Holiday, he’s my favorite old west character. I love your videos there allways very interesting
8:16 "They operated from a huge wooden building . . ." Who writes this? The building still exists today. You can look it up in Google images, or actually go there. The building does have a lot of wood, but its main feature is its adobe walls.
He was actually a good man who just had to take the law into his own hands. He was a hero to the people but hated by everyone else. Why else would the governor promise to pardon him (even though it never happened)
ToreDL87 Yeah, he said in an interview that it was one of the biggest regrets of his career, especially as he's since gotten into rodeo riding. He feels (quite rightly) that he didn't treat Western history with enough respect.
Oh, and there's also the portrayal of Tom O'Folliard. YGII had Balthazar Getty play him as an unskilled 14yr old orphan from Pennsylvania, who Billy takes on as a surrogate younger brother. In actual fact, he was a Texan, a year older than Billy, and was with him during the Lincoln County War, as a fellow Regulator.
Billy the kid actually robbed my great great grandfather. He told my grandfather “ a man should have his gun” and he gave my grandfather his gun back before leaving.
"Hey Peppin!" "I'm hearing ya Bonney!" "I see you got Charlie Crawford down there with ya!" *Cocks his pistol* "Yeah we got a whole lot!" *Billy shoots Charlie* "Jesus!" "Hey Peppin! Charlie Crawford ain't with ya anymore!"
This makes about the 10th iteration of Billy the kids life I have heard or read. Records were so poorly kept back then that sometimes I think other people’s actions are conflated with his. We will probably never know the full truth.
When I first heard of Kid, it was in Kamen Rider Ghost along with other heroes (and Edison), where some complained he shouldn't be there because he's a murderer. But the more I look into him, I think he really is a hero, trying his hardest to live in the corrupt world that he lived in
Nearly four years late to the party here. But I must hand it to you, as this is the first BTK related video I've seen that brings up the obvious, intense dynamic of the rival factions in Lincoln. That one side is run by two Irishmen and the other an Englishman, is almost never tied to the bitter dislike that many of either background have for the other. The moment I learned about the Irish/English element, I knew it had to add to the enmity between Dolan/Murphy and Tunstall factions. Well done.
Hello everyone. We've been experimenting with a bit of a podcast (a few people were asking for audio versions so they can get Biographics while doing other things)! Fair warning: none of these are new biographies, but rather me having a bit more of a free form chat around the script. I'd love to know what you think, if these are useful, wanted etc :). Thanks, Simon.
Links:
iTunes: itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/biographics-history-one-life-at-a-time/id1450405839?mt=2
Sitcher: www.stitcher.com/podcast/biographics-history-one-life-at-a-time
Website: biographics.blubrry.net/
RSS: biographics.blubrry.net/feed/podcast/
Spotify: open.spotify.com/album/6N9PS4QXF1D0OWPk0Sxtb4
Trolled people: open.spotify.com/show/0JzjzwJcRqFZ3BcACtahh8?si=MG5HSm1oT0GTNm_r8_HQcg
There's a mistake at 11:42 - the year should be 1878, not 1868
How are you gonna skip over bill Roberts? Billy, not Billy, it's still a good portion of the tale.... :(
It's rather unfortunate that he's often coupled with Jesse James.
Billy and Jesse were nothing alike morality-wise, as far as I'm aware.
Different lives, different souls.
Do one on jesse james
Hey, Simon, there's a Nazi you should talk about: Ernst Kaltenbrunner.
Billy is still seen as a hero in many parts of New Mexico, seen as a figure who stood up to the corruption of the Governor and sheriffs of the time
And In Texas,Mexico and Arizona im sure he's a known hero in California haven't been there yet
As he was
My state has the best wild west hero lol
Local Goverments are still Corrupt. Where I live is very corrupted. Read the Arkansas Times article A Killing in Pocahontas. There was a terrible murder 22 years ago at Dalton Ark.
A Guy named Billy Meier gives a pretty interesting point of view about Billy the kid.
Seems most people who weren't lawmen or huge land owners actually supported and respected The Kid.
Mexicans loved him.
Yeah I feel like in the beginning he truly fought for the little guy. I think he first a old west hero then a killer. Maybe if he died during the Lincoln county wars he'd have a different image today. Though those that fought injustices in those days are rarely remembered now, usually its presidents or senators or famous tall tales peeps like Paul Bunyan who are remembered today. Still dig wild bill and Samuel Clemons(Mark Twain)
Shocking
In other words, he was a criminal
@@schwarzwald6672 justice is more commonplace than we're lead to think, but there is a double profit motive involved. hiding our noble action is meaningful in preserving it, and it also serves the ones who subsist from perpetual injustice. people don't go flaunting their good deeds or else it's petty and vain, losers don't go telling everyone about the time they got their "just desserts", and if the world were so inclined to show us that life is in a pretty little bubble, someone is bound to pop it. in fact, someone always does
To be fair, if my mother died of tuberculosis when I was 15 and then my step father heartlessly left me to die in the New Mexico desert - I wouldn't be a saint either
Probably wouldn’t go around shooting people though. Because most people with a rough life don’t.
@@troystaunton254 Billy didn't either as he never shot anyone that didn't deserve it.
@@michaelfox2433 the guard that was eating a sandwich? Or the guy who was escorting him?
@@vlazurah789 neither were eating a sandwich. Bell was the one that was shot inside the courthouse and Ollinger was outside.
@@michaelfox2433 Bob sure i guess... but the other guy? What did he do?
*I'm 1000% sure he called him a "Sumbich".*
Agree2Disagree 😆
Lol
Ever since playing Red Dead 2, I’ve been obsessed with the wild west
A game that many people probably never heard of called "Gun" is what got me into the wild west. Than Red Dead Redemption came along and just solidified my interest in it.
@Freedom Of Opinion I started watching Clint Eastwood after playing Gun when I was a kid.
Prof. Genki was gun an original Xbox game???
@@binkyjenkinsnut7336 Xbox and PS2.
@Freedom Of Opinion Some people actully lived in those times, Mr. Johhny Come Even Later.
it seems that he was not the "cold-blooded killer” of legend, simply fighting for his survival in highly dangerous times & against a number of corrupt individuals & government officials. seems that history really is written by the victors!
If history is written by the victors, then where did all these suppose facts for this video come from? Just because someone made a video does not make it more accurate or truthful than the written records. Furthermore, to fight for survival does not automatically mean one must be a robber, thief or murderer. That is just an excuse all criminals use - I had to rob, steal, kill, etc. because I had didn't have a good childhood.
@@JS-ob4oh might i suggest that, as did we all watching this, you grew up with vastly different circumstances & conditions &, were we subject to same as him, we may also follow a similar path. I do take your point however, it's that i wonder what I would do given the same 'lot'.
Poor Billy never stood a chance,hisory cannot be judged by todays morals thank you,another perscuted Irishman.
"thank you,another perscuted Irishman."
Another fake victim.
Unless it’s WW2. Right?
damn O'Driscolls
Lol
O’Driscoll rules!
GOD DAMN O'DRISCALLS
O'Doyle rules.
Encrypted User to
"Hello Bob"
Gunshot
"Goodbye Bob"
Best $1.80 I ever spent!
I said the same thing when I watched this.🤣
I see ya got charlie crawford down there!
@@ambermcalaster9646 BANG!! "I see Charlie ain't with ya no more..."
All of you are him! A bunch of Billy Bastards.
HA! If Billy the Kid got old, he would've been Billy the Goat.
*bruh Dave: LoL
Some people believe he DID like to be old, until 1950
Billy the Fridge
@@fidelski2019 hisssss
"William the man", would have fit nicely if he got older.
Nothing but total respect for the guy. Did what he had to do on all counts IMO.
Hello Andres!
Shotgun.
There's 69 likes on this.
@@alignedlove6927 actually there’s 137
@@alignedlove6927 I was number 200
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus Number 202 here
Billy the kids story was tragic, orphaned at 13 and by the time he was 15 left with very little options it was only a matter of time he went on the path of darkness. He had good qualities, was considered a strong leader, quick witted, didn’t fold under pressure. Billy the kid, what happens when someone with nothing to lose.
0:45 - Chapter 1 - Early life
2:50 - Chapter 2 - On his own
4:05 - Chapter 3 - Fugitive
5:40 - Chapter 4 - The kid emerges
7:05 - Chapter 5 - The lincoln county war
12:50 - Mid roll ads
13:55 - Chapter 6 - A false amnesty
15:15 - Chapter 7 - Most wanted
15:55 - Chapter 8 - Enter pat garett
sounds like a good plan of rdr3
One the amazing things about Billy the Kid was he was bilingual and could read and write.
according to witnesses, he could also "sing like a bird" and played the piano well, dance the Fandango and ride like the wind.
I worked in an area of Texas that had a large Hispanic population and soon could carry on a conversation in Spanish, not fluently but pretty good.
Billy the Kid didn't get killed by Pat Garrett. He got away and went on to star in the Breakfast Club, Stakeout, and the Mighty Ducks.
🤣🤣🤣
Your joke would have been funnier if you hadnt mentioned young guns
@@lanehenkle6400 what?
@@nouseforaname4100 :))))
Ok
Great video and prefect time with red dead redemption 2 coming out soon
My thoughts exactly lol
Would ve nice but the game is post-billy
Ha! I was literally watching this while it installs. I’m also related to Doc Scurlock.
I’m here after 35hrs of RDR2 lol
Spoilers* and with the whole TB thing with his mother hits home with red dead 2
Welp, now I'm off to watch _Young Guns_ and _Young Guns II_
REGULAAAATOOOORRRSSSS
Didn’t realise how much of young guns was true.
Did you see the size of that chicken?
@@wolfy9549 yea its pretty close to heart on the history we have
@@wolfy9549 Most of it is not true at all. Some is. Pat Garret and Billy were not best friends or even really friends at all. Chavez was a mexican and Doc was real. One of them did shoot sheriff brady. Billy really did escape jaila nd someone planted a gun at the outhouse he used. But most of young guns is just fiction.
Billy: "Hey Peppin, is that Charlie Crawford with you?"
Marshal:"Yeah that's right he's here."
[Gunshot]
Billy:"Hey Peppin Charlie Crawford ain't with ya no more"
Best line in young guns
I dont mind the mid break sponsorship if it means to keep these videos coming. Thank you for these videos!
The Kid was,is,and Always be a LEGEND. His story fascinates me.
Abandoned at 15 years old: With no job the kid was left with no choice, but to do what he had to do to survive. Hung around with bad crooks. So, so sad!!!
not sad omg
We always have choices. In retrospect, Billy's choices were ultimately bad ones; but at the time, they probably were the ones that seemed like the best options of those available. We can't blame him for the options he chose when his back was to the wall. We can blame him for the ones when he had other, more clear, options. What's sad is that he died young and in part due to the government not holding up their end of the bargain. His life may have ended different had he been given his pardon.
Justin Carnes, you are right "His life may have ended different had he been given his pardon." It is still sad he was abandoned!
You could also say that it was his mother's choice to marry a man with little integrity that eventually doomed Billy.
doll maleficent - what would you become IF you were abandoned in the very bad part of town filled with crooks smarter than you?
The blacksmith(older man) tried humiliating Billy (17?) in the bar, even wrestling him onto floor. NOT COOL...blacksmith got what was coming....
Yes, killing someone is always the best solution.
@@RU-zm7wj Never the best, but sometimes the only.
The same could be said about Bob Olinger. He was also a gang member turned deputy (which was not uncommon in the Old West) and he was on the opposing side in the Lincoln County War. Apparently while Billy was in custody Bob Olinger harassed him the whole time, so like the blacksmith he ended up being shot by Billy. Billy was someone with intense loyalties, if you were helpful towards him he respected you, but if you got on his bad side then you better hope he doesn't have a firearm within reach.
When you don't know what sarcasm is.
@@RU-zm7wj it's the wild west you docile non-survivor. I hope people would've took you serious back in the day after getting punked. Stop putting your feelings out there, if everyone reacted the same way you did, we'd be in our bedrooms, commenting your sour comments. Is someone with money, a job, family and everything willing to do that? It just shows you're not willing to understand and thats a sign of bias and an abortion of justice. I wouldn't wanna be anywhere around you, you use emotion instead of logic.
last time I was this early billy was still a kid
BOOOOOOO
seriousoy. all these "the last time I was this early" posts are already old/over. save yourself the time and make this your last "the last time I was this early" post.
Thanks
I think that's first variant of that joke I've seen that was actually clever.
Hilbert's Inn true
Last time I was that early I had a kid
Billy the Kid is a folk hero to most people I know, myself included, and a figure of interest to everyone I know. It is quite sad that he was snitched on by his loved ones own brother. He was smart as a whip, quick to act, and extremely respectful of cultural differences. I think this is a truly important aspect to pull from in the information presented.
He spoke fluent Spanish and helped Hispanic people in NM. They certainly loved him. He married Paulitta and had a child, rumors say.
And loyal
You failed to mention the incident in which two time travelers from San Dimas recruited Mr. The Kid to speak at their History presentation in 1989, nor the ensuing most excellent adventures up to and including escaping from yet another jail with the help of said time travelers.
Be excellent to each other.
Most heinous treatmeant of billy
@@georgehyland.8690
Bogus.
LOL....I was hoping someone would mention that.
Loki Singularity And......
*PARTY ON DUDES*
I love how half of outlaws are Irish (propaly o'driscolls) 😄😄
Goddamm O'Driscolls!
They basically shaped what the wild west is
Shows what happens when you trust a politician!
....and/or law enforcement.
Im from New Mexico, and growing up I've always heard Billy the Kid stories from my grandfather and in school. Beautifully done! Great video!👏
Poor kid lived a tragic short life. He was clearly a product of his chaotic environment and had the potential to be a better human being. Hopefully things turned out better for him in his next life.
I love how you defend him. Tough times often breed tough people. Back then you had to be tough. But this is a very informative video. Thank you.
"Tough times breed tough men.
Tough men breed good times.
Good times breed weak men.
Weak men breed tough times."
Billy's escape from the jail in Lincoln County is one of those incidents that needs to be looked at by historians. He shot two deputies but escaped, no one tried to get a gun and stop him. According to legend he didn't actually steal a horse to escape but it was loaned to him and later returned. They may have also helped him escape and he gave a speech. I think for many in the region that there was bad feelings that still lingered on after the Lincoln County War of which Billy was on the opposing side and I think many resented the Santa Fe Ring and how they apparently got away with murder. Thinking about the shooting of Sheriff Brady, of which Billy was only one of several shooters, in modern times the Sheriff would have been charged with murder for hire especially with the shooting of John Tunstall.
That is the story I was taught as well where he was "helped" out
I grew up in New Mexico seeing the name “Billy the Kid” on memorials and legends everywhere down south but never knew much about him. This was very interesting! I learned a lot about both Billy and New Mexico’s history I never knew!
You are very beautiful :)
So his first murder was self defense
That means it wasn't murder.
String Up The Maoist skin conclusion if he stayed in the jail in the first place he would be free and non of this would had happened
String Up The Maoist in conclusion if he stayed in the jail in the first place he would be free and non of this would had happened
Laws were different back then
@@unitedok5645 - I liked "skin conclusion" better.
I love how he became a legend by pure circumstances.
I disagree in part. In many ways, he chose certain things that led further and further towards what he ultimately became. But yes, he was placed in circumstances too. I just don't think everyone would have turned out the same. We have to give credit to human choice too.
@@lexingtonconcord8751 while most of his early choices didn't help where he ended up, it seems when employed to tunstol, he may have been trying to turn his life around.
Again, not saying that justifies his earlier years.
Love your mini-docs, very informative, and great delivery! LOVE that accent!
There's a museum down the lane from Billy's grave, but it was closed when we passed through. They actually had to erect a cage around his headstone because it's been stolen so many times. It looks a lot like a jail cell, come to think of it. Kudos to whomever it was that left the .357 magnum round just on the inside of the perimeter, I thought it a nice touch.
Highly entertaining as always, I'd recommend a bio on Doc Holiday and/or Wyatt Earp. The format of these vids really suits the old west narratives, imo
I think he already did Wyatt Earp.
Doc Holiday could be nice actually!
He's done both of them already.
Unfortunately also has loads of mistakes like all of his videos. His mother died when he was 13, how he can get this so wrong is beyond belief.
@@DoltGaming It doesn't bother me because it's entertainment not academia
Billy the Kid was an amazing individual, he lived the way he was forced to, the only way he knew, Billy was not a heartless killer; alright he shouldn't have killed the two guards who were only guarding him but all the others he was provoked and it being the wild west Billy only did what he felt he had to. So no in my opinion Billy wasn't a cold blooded killer just a young man trying to live his life the best he can.
No one was innocent in the Wild West
Bob Ollinger was bad news?
I never know what sources to trust but am pretty sure it’s widely accepted that Ollinger tormented Billy so that murder was likely pure spite. I believe Billy went out of his way to kill him with Ollinger’s own gun that he had proudly boasted about having. It’s also said that he regretted killing Bell (the other guard) because Bell had been good to him. It’s speculated that it’s highly possible/maybe likely that an accomplice had left a gun for Billy in the outhouse, not that Billy wrestled Bell’s away from him. I believe it was reported that Bell’s gun was still in his holster. But that Bell lunged for Billy’s gun vs letting him escape so Billy was ‘forced’ to kill him to be able to.
He didn't want to kill tge guard. He said the guard was good to him, but it was his last resort.
This is a great series for informative and engaging videos. Any time I need to write something about an important person in history, I come to this channel. Good job, keep it up!
I have circled back around to watch many of your videos again Simon. Speaking of Brilliant, i find you and your team's sense of humor brilliant. (see what id did there ;) ) *** A thought came to mind... i think Biographics video for Sitting BUll, and possibly Geronimo would be amazing. *** Just my thoughts.
"Hey, Peppin! Charlie Crawford aint with ya anymore!"
Right through his forehead
''I'll make ya famous.''
You could go to..
HELL.HELL.HELL
Yo tb has been messing with my feelings lately. Y’all know what I mean 😂RD2
Sullivan Braun yo me too):
Same
Muneh
You realize how perfect a game this would make? Maybe like a old western uncharted type thing of his whole life
I came here to say this, or a movie but I love games so that’d be cooler
May I suggest the Read Dead Redemption series? It’s a fantastic one, set in the old west and telling similar tales to the Kid’s.
This guy's accent alone makes the story 10 times more interesting
Dale Holbert lmao! Agreed.
Agreed. He does mispronounce a lot of words thats not always attributed to his accent.
It's just a standard English accent to my ears
@@Deathfromabove5
His mispronunciation of *Navajo* was *unforgivable.*
He insulted an entire Tribe of Proud Indigenous Peoples.
@joe dwyer
I will not *chill.*
The *Navajo* have been on this soil for a very long time and this is not the 1st video in which he has mispronounced the Tribe's name.
He could have looked up the correct pronouciatiation but he didn't.
He wasn't a cold blooded killer nor a hero.
He was getting vengeance on the people who killed his boss.
Others were self defense.
Yeah people like to romanticize peoples actions but he really just did what he had to do with the life he was given
This might be the best biographics yet! What a story!
I adore the story of Billy the Kid! Such an incredible life.
Love all of your videos. Keep up the good work.
Funny to think that one of my distant relatives met Billy The Kid!
Are you a relative of John Tunstall??? If so, that is awesome! I grew up watching Young Guns, still one of my favorite movies to this day! I was obsessed as a kid with the story and John Tunstall's name will be forever imprinted in my memory. My girlfriend is related to Doc Holiday if you've ever seen the movie Tombstone.
Sick!
I have distant family who met both Jesse James and Billy the Kid
Me too I’m related to shotgun John Collins
17:17 did the shotgun give a testimony or what how did anyone know he said hello bob
I've always thought the main photo of Billy the Kid, standing with the rifle, was a posthumous prop-up. Look closely at his eyes and mouth, he looks unconscious at least, I think he looks dead. Taking photos of people after they'd died was a common practice in the 19th century. Often people would have photos taken of their newly deceased loved ones for remembrance. Queen Victoria had one taken of her beloved, newly deceased husband, Prince Albert, and had it placed above her pillow, where she kept it for the remainder of her life, nearly forty years. Props, wooden and otherwise, were commonly used for posthumous photography. There would be a substantial fee paid by a newspaper for a photo of Billy the Kid, given how his fame as an outlaw had spread throughout the US. It might have been arranged by Garrett himself, and there would have been a photographer in Fort Sumner to get the job done quickly before burying him. To bury him without photographing him would have been to give away a sizeable sum. The other photo of Billy the Kid, with the croquet stick, is highly disputed. It the man or boy looks a bit like the main one, particularly the hat, but it's unlikely Billy was much of a croquet player, and people have also pointed to tree species in the photo which weren't prevalent where he lived. It's a real long shot.
Chris P Bacon
If it had been a post-mortem 'prop-up' picture of Billy, it's appearance in newspapers would have been documented, as would the taking of it.
Several local officials were called out to examine the body and confirm its identity. Why do none of their statements mention photographic evidence being recorded?
The original ferrotye was owned by Dan Dedrik, a former Regulator associate who left the area around a year before Billy's death.
Billy gave him the picture, which stayed in his family, unpublished for years after the event, so I really don't see how your theory is plausible.
That pic appears on the wanted posters so how can it be Post mortem?
@@babiryeethel8582 The wanted posters you're talking about aren't genuine, they're modern mockups for people to put on their games-room walls. No wanted posters from Billy the Kid's life are known to have survived. The closest thing to a surviving reward notice is one that appeared as an ad in the Las Vegas Gazette and the Santa Fe New Mexican newspapers, but it carried no picture.
@@Paddy.C Maybe Dan just said he was given it by Billy. I'm no expert, it's just that the face looks like a lot of the posthumous pictures, which were relatively common then, that I've seen. Just a theory but who knows. Stranger things have happened.
Chris P Bacon
True, stranger things have happened.
But, given the weight of evidence (no record of a posthumous picture being taken, no newspaper publishing it, the man who owned it having been a known associate of Billy's who left the area well before his death), I still think it's highly implausible.
Besides which, the 'propped' photographs imitating still-life were more a keepsake that loved ones would pay to have done as a memento.
If you look at the pictures taken of Western outlaws after their death, like Jesse James or Dirty Dave Rudabaugh, they show a dead body (or in Dave's case, a disembodied head), which much better accompanies the report of someone meeting their end.
But hey, we're all entitled to our own opinion.
Say what you will, but Thàt kid had honnour.! He revenged the man who treathed him fairly.!
explosivefreak666 avenged *
@Crystal Phoenix Your about to get revenged so bad
Billy the kid is a wild west Legend RIP
11:09 - Wow...murdered on April Fools day. Is that the Old West's version of "It's just a prank, bro?"
I live in New Mexico, can confirm.
Was hoping this would extend to when a guy stepped forward years later claiming to be Billy the Kid.
I feel like playing red dead redemption now
What happened to the oliver cromwell video. Saw it bit it became private. Really wanted to see that one so if you could attend it ,that would be appreciated
david martin-garcia thats what I was wondering
@@h_curly6384 heard off Phillip defranco show that TH-cam had a glitch which did just that. Make videos private. It was also troublesome to make it public.
AZTECECONOMICS has one called Cromwell the king killer. If you hurry you might be able to catch it before they remove it. I just watched it, so it was still up as a couple days ago.
@@lzad3764 thanks
✌️
Pat Garrett not only claimed to have killed Billy, he was also his biographer. This is a retelling of Garrett's account and not necessarily the true story of Billy The Kid's life. Garrett was a heavy drinker, he shot three people trying to get Billy. The third one was buried quickly and was the one he claimed to be the real BTK. The governor refused to give him the reward because there was no proof he had killed Billy.
Great videos every time.
I've always been fascinated by the story of Billy the Kid, in part because my life has paralleled his in some ways: I'm from an immigrant family (born in Germany); I grew up in the Midwest (Wisconsin); I moved to New Mexico to re-start my life; I found work--and acceptance--in an area that's almost entirely Hispanic, learning to speak (broken) Spanish and working alongside Mexican immigrants, digging trenches, doing landscaping and construction work. In fact, I'm the only "Anglo" at my job. The similarities end there, however. I never got involved in any county-wide feuds, never killed anyone, never stole horses, lol. Still, the old wild west mentality continues to permeate this area, and I do have to be on my guard and aware of my surroundings, so to speak.
I'm still on the fence about Billy the Kid's reputation, as are a lot of people in New Mexico. I'm certain he killed people, but it's hard to get a good grasp on what really happened in each case, since it was a fairly lawless time, and there were no CCTV cameras or DNA tests to set records straight. Most news was nothing more than gossip, and--as Simply Legendary has said in this comment section--many law enforcement people in the old west were corrupt. A few years ago, Governor Bill Richardson reconsidered Billy's case in order to determine whether or not to issue a formal pardon for his misdeeds--and he denied the pardon. I'm not sure what he based his decision on, and I'm not sure if it was the right decision. My gut tells me that Billy the Kid was railroaded and used as a scapegoat, but my gut hasn't been certified by FBI as a CSI tool.
Did you see the size of that chicken!
LMAO
🤣🤣🤣
Did you see the size of that cockadoodle God damn doo? 😂😂😂😂
That’s it... You made me want to go and watch the movie for like the millionth time 😎
Regulators let’s ride
Damn did everyone in history father die ?
GD Nygma Most of them........sad.....
It's even more likely that he was an illegitimate child. Single mothers of good reputation were given the courtesy of being called "widows" in order to spare them some shame and gossip. Immigration and the Civil War gave people a lot of room to imagine nameless dead fathers, and at least for the mothers, it was better to be a widow than to openly recognize that you had a child out of wedlock.
Well technically yes lol
Yes. Bad food, no vaccines and little medical care, besides the civil war, wiped out millions of men before they turned thirty. Young people of 14 routinely married because they were only young and strong for a few years. A mans usefulness was impaired drastically by 40, IF he survived animal attacks, Indians, gunfights, and syphilis from the occasional night on the town. Even having a cavity in those days could give you a fatal infection with no antibiotics. Believe me, these are the good old days!!
Pretty much. But mom usually went first😔.
"They talked easily with the Mexican Elders."
Billy the Kid can talk to trees. He's a Druid
Man, thanks for this video. I’m related to him so it’s really nice to hear some history about him
I was reading the wiki on BtK and thought; "Intriguing, I want more detail. I wonder if Simon and the biographics team did a piece on him?" and here we are. Many thanks for this. May the God you don't believe in keep blessing the work you do Simon.
Omg yes, you should also do one on john dillinger.
Yes, learning about criminals is really important.
@Ed Fynster It is if the criminal was a keystone moment in history for an organization like the F.B.I. Dillinger was the first most infamous/famous high profile criminal they went after that they laid all their reputation on trying to capture. Capturing him was not like capturing Billy the Kid. He was their first, "Ladies and gentle men... we got'em," moment. There were others before but he was the criminal they risked a lot of their reputation to capture. If they lost the F.B.I. would not become what it is today.
Ed Fynster not really and trust me I've made comments on this channel hoping that simon would add a bit more diversity to the channel.
Didn't he escape Alcatraz??
@@bayern1445 no only 3 peolpe escaped he did not go to Alcatraz,he went to another prison which he escaped then got killed
Please do Jesse James next
and his brother Frank
Frank was the brains.
Im related to him
@aaronsdavis Look at why Jess n the others did what they did, before you judge.
What a sad life. What a sad ending.
Not really he achived in mortality and enter history
I still think it's great to know Billy grew up in my home town of Silver!
The way he pronounced Navajo made me chuckle
I know right, Na-VA-ho
The day he tries to pronounce Tarahumara or Raramuri will be even more funny.
You should do Pancho Villa next
Carlos Lara crazy thing about that...Pancho Villa was part of my family...
Pancho would sold out his own people. Zapata was a true hero to the Mexican people
Billy is so cute. He was my favorite outlaw.
Ned Kelly was pretty neat.
One of the only true gunslingers to have ever lived.
We appreciate your need for sponsorship and don't disagree with it. It's breaking up the pacing of the story when you can easily put the ad before/after that we take issue with
It’s so crazy how young all the outlaws were back then. And it’s crazy how different it was back then, it really wasn’t that long ago .
Billy kept his word and testified in open court then Lew Wallace just leaves the New Mexico territory and never even attempts to keep his side of the deal. Terrible! I have always wondered what would have happened if Lew Wallace wasn't such a creep.
Lew Wallace was a blue coat what do you expect...……...
Whether or not Pat Garrett actually killed Billy remains a mystery.
Much of Billy's life remains a mystery.
David Frederick remember, Garrett didn’t get a reward because he wasn’t believed!!!
my grandfather has always claimed to be relatives to billy the kid. I was told my great- great grandmother was billy the kids sister. apparently they are buried next to each other in silver city. my grand father also told me that he died much older in bayard NM. if any of that is true. I dont know, but its fun to speculate
I heard they were friends
It does make you wonder. Its been said they were friends.
Two things, one Billy and I share the same birthday November 23rd I've always been very proud of that fact in a way. Also , according to another documentary I watched on Billy's life it was said that he said who is it in Spanish quienes.
It seemed appropriate to watch this in Albuquerque. I drive long haul and I’ve been through pretty much all of the Old West. Some of my ancestors lived out here. There were outlaws and lawmen, cowboys and Indians in my family. Dad grew up on dairy farms near Kingman, AZ and I still have family all over Arizona.
It’s like I can feel the Old West sometimes when I’m driving through the vast open spaces and nothing has changed aside from a ribbon of asphalt and my Freightliner passing through on a journey to faraway lands.
One of the my favorites of the Wild West, I also really enjoy the story of John Wesley Hardin
Billy was the first blood with his red bandana
Arthur Morgan earned his redemption!!!
Your pfp angers me
@@kamihashindaa9751 more of a reason to go dark mode
Opened my eyes, never knew the truth. Thanks great Bio..
Enjoy being read to and I have seen so many videos on Billy the kid... I feel I have learned from this story and now feel I know him even better. Thank you. I loved all the Pictures too.
Hey! Loved this video, I was curious as to if you have done or will consider doing a video on Doc Holiday, he’s my favorite old west character. I love your videos there allways very interesting
8:16 "They operated from a huge wooden building . . ."
Who writes this?
The building still exists today. You can look it up in Google images,
or actually go there. The building does have a lot of wood, but its
main feature is its adobe walls.
He was actually a good man who just had to take the law into his own hands. He was a hero to the people but hated by everyone else. Why else would the governor promise to pardon him (even though it never happened)
Wow young guns was pretty accurate!
I was thinking the same thing. Both 1 and 2 was pretty accurate.
pokerofaces
Except that Doc Surlock survived into old age.
@@Paddy.C Which they only wrote in because Sutherland had to shoot for other movies as well, the writer opposed it but was left no choice.
ToreDL87
Yeah, he said in an interview that it was one of the biggest regrets of his career, especially as he's since gotten into rodeo riding.
He feels (quite rightly) that he didn't treat Western history with enough respect.
Oh, and there's also the portrayal of Tom O'Folliard.
YGII had Balthazar Getty play him as an unskilled 14yr old orphan from Pennsylvania, who Billy takes on as a surrogate younger brother.
In actual fact, he was a Texan, a year older than Billy, and was with him during the Lincoln County War, as a fellow Regulator.
I love your content keep going it's very insightful... your should do one of Marcus Garvey next.
I couldn't stop thinking about DA CRUEL REGULATORS SMOKING CIGARO CIGARO CIGARO
Best dollar eighty i ever spent
Billy the kid actually robbed my great great grandfather. He told my grandfather “ a man should have his gun” and he gave my grandfather his gun back before leaving.
Dam just like always great !!!
Great channel, can't stop watching it
He survived every shootout. Last man standing every time.
"Hey Peppin!"
"I'm hearing ya Bonney!"
"I see you got Charlie Crawford down there with ya!" *Cocks his pistol*
"Yeah we got a whole lot!"
*Billy shoots Charlie*
"Jesus!"
"Hey Peppin! Charlie Crawford ain't with ya anymore!"
@James Guenard It's in Young Guns, the movie
This makes about the 10th iteration of Billy the kids life I have heard or read. Records were so poorly kept back then that sometimes I think other people’s actions are conflated with his. We will probably never know the full truth.
If that's really Billy in there, Mustang .308.
@Mustang .308 Oooh, that's deep, man.
@Mustang .308 unlikely due to floods.
Before he was killed went back in time to help two teens with there history report.
Bill and Ted excellent Adventures
When I first heard of Kid, it was in Kamen Rider Ghost along with other heroes (and Edison), where some complained he shouldn't be there because he's a murderer. But the more I look into him, I think he really is a hero, trying his hardest to live in the corrupt world that he lived in
Nearly four years late to the party here. But I must hand it to you, as this is the first BTK related video I've seen that brings up the obvious, intense dynamic of the rival factions in Lincoln. That one side is run by two Irishmen and the other an Englishman, is almost never tied to the bitter dislike that many of either background have for the other. The moment I learned about the Irish/English element, I knew it had to add to the enmity between Dolan/Murphy and Tunstall factions. Well done.