Thought I'd share my recent experience with vapor lock. I bought an old Chevy truck that would get up to about 215 degrees, then shut down with vapor lock, every time I drove it, even on the interstate with plenty of air moving through the grill... I also noticed after coasting to the side of the road and popping the hood open, the amount of heat under the hood was unbearable, forcing you to step back... First, I replaced everything in the cooling system, new radiator, new water pump, new thermostat, new fan clutch, and it still would get too hot and shut down... Then I tried insulating the fuel lines, blocked off the heat riser passages in the intake, and added a carburetor spacer, still got too hot... Then I started to notice a pattern where I could hear the fan clutch engage and start to pull more air through the radiator right before it would shut down at 215 degrees. So, I "recalibrated" the fan clutch by adjusting the little thermostatic clock spring on the front of the fan clutch. Only had to turn it like an 1/8 of an inch (think it was counterclockwise) and now the fan pulls much more air, but it still would get too hot and shut down... Then I did a little research and decided to check my vacuum advance... Then, the only changes I made were to switch the vacuum advance from a ported vacuum source to a manifold vacuum source, and adjusted the vacuum pot one and a half turns to maximize advance... That is what finally fixed it!!! Now the temperature gauge stays around 170-180 degrees even in traffic, in the hot south-east. My gas mileage got much better as well... Anyway, great videos!!
That's because at cruise the mix leans out, lean burns slower, so you need more advance to light the fire earlier and not dump it into the exhaust and cooling systems. Everything must work together.
@@Broken_Yugo Another interesting thing I noticed was a while back, on another vehicle, I disconnected the vacuum advance to check initial timing and forgot to reconnect it when I finished. When I drove it down the interstate with vacuum advance disconnected, I noticed that I had to keep my foot in the throttle like halfway, almost opening the secondaries on the four -barrel carburetor just to stay at 65 MPH. Once I reconnected the vacuum advance, I could cruise at 65 MPH with the throttle barely cracked open. With vacuum advance disconnected, my gas mileage was half what it was before, I assume the difference in throttle opening had a lot to do with why gas mileage was so different... As far as engine running temperature goes, I imagine the late timing causes the fuel to burn too late in the cycle (at the bottom of the cylinder) which heats up the whole length of the cylinder walls, and like you said also still burning on its way out in the exhaust manifolds making them hotter and dispersing even more heat under the hood.
Exactly! Running manifold advance is the way to go. I had a similar experience. I also noticed that my engine got a LOT quieter. I was able to take my ‘72 F350 flatbed from 9 mpg when I first got it to 24mpg. A big part of that was switching to manifold
UTG reminds me of my dad ...aaaaa lot. 👍🏼😄🤟🏼 from '57 to 2018- a grease monkey, mopar die hard from the start, scrappin two pennies to create a quarter.
My only experience with it was on my 74 VW super beetle. My friend and I pushed that car for miles and when my dad got me back to it the car started just fine. That’s when he told me about vapor lock… proving an 18 year old kid can learn from his dad.
One other thing about modern fuel… they actually CHANGE the boiling point of the fuel twice a year. They lower the boiling point (raise the equilibrium vapor pressure) in winter, allegedly to lower emissions by getting the fuel to vaporize better for clean combustion. Then they raise it in summer to prevent unburned fuel emissions from gas evaporation out of car gas tanks and gas station storage tanks. The result of that is that you are now more likely to get vapor lock on a warm day in winter than on a hot day in summer… and it’s really bad on cars that are rarely driven and can get all the way into late spring early summer and still have winter gas in the tank.
Just to get some of youse guyz tinkin', back in the 80's Mercedes used to run the fuel line up into the engine compartment, coil it about a dozen times around the cold side A/C line, and then on the the throttle body. So, if it was hot enough outside to turn on the A/C, presto you had cold gas going into the engine. Smart dudes them Germanz.
Two other things, though, one commenter had touched on one. Electric cooling fans on a timer and pressure. The cooling fans do double duty. They reduce the heat soak in both the cooling system and the fuel system after the engine is off. The pressure thing is kinda touched on, but not directly addressed on Bottle Rocket. Much like pressure in a cooling system keeps the water from boiling, so too will pressure help keep fuel from boiling. Having a high pressure fuel delivery system with a return style pressure regulator is ideal to reduce vapor lock.
I used the "eight dollar" cure on my '68 Fury VIP (318 2 bbl) by getting the same Wix fuel filter that would have gone on my '80 Cordoba (318 2bbl) and adding a return line that is hooked up to a tee at the tank. Also covered all my fuel lines under the hood with that slip on insulation from the carb to the filter, the factory fuel line down to the pump and also the return line from the filter down to the frame rail. Works great, no more problems after that.
Hey Patrick, I am going to do the same , when you say you teed it to the tank is it to a tee fitting at the fuel sending unit's fuel line? Thank you im trying to figure this out if I can do it like that also. I much rather do it your way then have to drill a new hole and add a bung and all that, thank you 😊
@@juliancapucetti8190are you may be able to get a sending unit that has the inlet in for the return line. I'm looking at that for my 1967 barracuda that originally did not have one but I intend to add one.
@@robertarends2458 hey Robert 👋 my 63 c20 doesn't have a sending unit for it. I got the efi filler neck kit which I intend to install...pretty easy solution but much rather have it go fuel sending unit somehow, I can also drill a hole and weld/solder fitting into it
I swear to the almighty, your video might have just helped me figure out an issue I've been stumped on for 6 months now. I've got this 91 Camaro that was molested the worst I've ever seen a third gen butchered. I'll try and keep it short, It was gutted of it's electronics and had a 305 someone put effort into slapped with a Edelbrock 1406 on top, ran great without issue for the first 3 weeks into owning it. Throws a rod bearing, pretty sure the external balance flywheel they put on the neutral balanced engine was the culprit. They ran an inline pump mounted on the driver rear floor pan with specs saying it pumped 5psi to a regulator by the brake master cylinder with no return. I decided to spend the last 2 years restoring it, I put a crate motor 350 mounted to a T-5 and decided to put a posi/disk 4th gen rear end in it, figured I'd replace the fuel tank/sender/in tank pump while I'm at it so I have the option to convert it back to it's factory fuel injection. So I converted it from the dead head returnless to a return system with a quality regulator. Got it together, first 4-5 test runs ran perfectly,they were only 20 mins at most. First time I drove it longer about 45 mins in it's like it's starving for fuel as I'm cruising down the highway, pull over pressure gauge say 0, can hear the pump and see fuel in the inline filter, adjust it back to 5psi runs fine for another hour. I start it the next day it's pegging 14psi blowing fuel out of everywhere on the carburetor. Just a pack pressure held same thing 45 minutes in does it and I repeat this cycle several times, trying different things they'll finally I just say screw it and put a second regulator in line, It reduced the erratic fuel pressure but it still happens enough to be a problem. All right now realize I have about 3 ft of rubber hose probably two of it wrapping around the carburetor sitting on top of a GM 350 stove basically cooking the fuel past the second regulator and probably about another foot between the two regulators and the return line that sits within 4 in of an exhaust header. I am now thinking my problem is the heat soaking into the rubber fuel line is the reason why with fixed spring rate set at the regulators the fuel pressure is All over the place without rhyme or reason. I'm going to try rerouting with Hardline avoiding the engine as much as possible and see if that fixes it running one regulator and if it does I'll have to come back with a big fat thank you for making this video.
Allied forces during WW2 behind enemy lines in Africa(Long Range Desert Group - look it up) , used to,when they stopped, turn their trucks/jeeps into the wind and lift up their bonnets (hoods) to get the latent cooling while taking a break.
Eh. I get what your saying most teachers suck. But Uncle Tony has 20 years more Now then your teacher did then. Most the time. You have to. HAVE to go to the engineers writings. (Most people don’t take the time to be correct or listen to the manufacturer of said part.. I mean they spent two years making it, they would have a slight idea) Most mechanics just repair, very few figure out who what when where and why. And there is an old saying, Those who Can, Do. Those who can’t, Teach. 🤷♂️
Not to sound "political", but there are a few ways the gov't is going to try eliminating our old carbed gas burners. One is the fuel. A couple more? Well, they tried eliminating zinc (which some say flat-tappet cams don't need, but I disagree) from engine oil, so only a few "hot rod" type oils have it in any significant amount. Then there's parts availability and quality. Parts for some newer cars are going obsolete now, and the replacement parts that are actually available are pure crap in many instances. It's getting ugly, and it's gonna get uglier, unfortunately. Take care, Tony! Thanks for the great vids, man.
The fuel injection returnless systems have this topic covered. The method is to vary fuel pump speed based on fuel rail temp. At higher fuel rail temp, fuel pump output is increased, increasing rail pressure, raising boiling point to prevent vapor lock.
Makes sense. So a failing old fuel pump might contribute to vapor lock? I had a Dodge intrepid, returnless fuel injection, in the summer, the car would not start again until the engine cooled off.
I've had Vapor lock in a fuel injected car. a 98 (catfish) Camaro. It was a very hot day. 112 Degrees in the shade. After driving 45 mins and then sitting in traffic, i then pulled into a place to get some take-out for my dinner. Came back out, and the car wouldn't start. Siting there parked after that long drive on such a hot day, it became heat-soaked and the fuel in the fuel rails boiled off. The fuel pump was making a very weird noise too. I was told that the fuel boiling in the rail, being a closed system, the increased pressure pushed fuel backward through the fuel pump and the fuel pump and the entire fuel system filled with vapor. The fuel pump failed about two weeks later. I'm guessing it became damaged in some way from this.
Late 70’s and early 80’s Datsun Z’s with the inline 6 had a small fan on the side of the engine with plastic ducting that would turn on after the engine was shut off. It would kick on maybe 30 seconds after the key is shut off and would run for a few minutes. The air would come from the cooler side of the engine and blow over the fuel rail, to keep it cool for that first few minutes after the key was shut off, so that you could restart the car if you only stopped for a minute. Even some recirculating fuel systems had vapor lock issues.
Hi VW, I worked with Nissan during those days, when the first 300's came out they had a problem with heat soak restarts, the fix was replace the injectors with a recirculating type, but the funny thing is that not all of them did this, it was only a certain percentage, go figure. Blue Mule
@@indianaslim4971 yes. That is why I do not have a 1979 280ZX anymore. Imagine working with 40+ year old connectors. I ended up having to solder new ones in.
This guy has learned me more in the last 3 hours then any asshole wanting my money when they see my old k10 come beating the earth when I pull into the shop. I'm new to the SBC game and I can tell you Everyone needs a uncle tony.
A few ideas that help in this issue of vapor lock: like your brake lines'coils next to the master cylinder: Coil/ spiral your steel fuel line.. this technique disperses heat (remember why the brake lines are like that by the master cylinder, & very close to the exhaust manifold/ header: to disperse heat: boiled brake lines= no brakes. Another idea: coil up/ spiral up your fuel line away from headers/ exhaust piping & have it inside a metal coffee can: if need being on certain occasions now u can fill that coffee can with ice. Another idea: use a brand new "universal trans cooler" plumb your fuel lines through that, then to fuel pressure regulator/ carb, & so forth. Header wrap exhaust stuff, & coolant hoses if need being. You'd be surprised how well a combination of these techniques work well.
I always liked watching the temperature gauge go up after shutting off the engine, and then restarting it after 15-20 minutes, and watching the temp gauge drop significantly as the water from the radiator which was able to cool down, circulates through the engine, dropping the temperature.
Having delt with vapor lock over many times, ive went to a home made bypass fuel system using an electric fuel pump. Lots of examples to look up and copy, I route the lines away from the heat as much as possible, it works great when properly setup to keep your good ol simple carb system going on the dishwater crap fuel we have to run, I used non eth gas when I can but its just not available everywhere.
Yep, low fuel pressure and high temperature is the cause. The condition was first noticed on old gravity fed carburetors like the old Tractors, & Model A's T's and all it required to cure was the lowly clothes pin.
There’s actually a technical service bulletin for vapor lock on the Jeep 4.0. It is mostly a problem with the 2000 and later engines that had iron exhaust manifolds and the two pre-cats up close to the manifold below the engine, rather than back under the floor. The “fix” is insulating socks over the fuel injectors (especially #3). It definerky helped on my 2000 Cherokee. My daughter’s 99 Cherokee never had the problem, since it had the older exhaust design.
Well….sorta…. My 98 Cherokee would experience a hot soak “stumble” on warm days when it would be parked somewhere after driving for a while, then be started back up and go to drive off. Within a few seconds of driving off, you would feel a momentary hesitation almost like the engine was trying to die for a split second, then it would run just fine. I concluded from doing research on the problem that the injectors were experiencing heat soak while the engine was shut down, so in effect it was vapor locking until the fuel pump could pressurize the fuel rail again. It’s possible the fuel pump was getting a bit weak and a replacement may have solved the problem, but I never saw any other indications of a failing pump. No extended crank or other issues. I drove the thing for years and it did it from day one.
This is foundational Learning, and I love it, UTG. 🥝✔️ Vapor Lock is a Whole lotta Nothing with the proper tools Chrysler and AMC devised. Love especially the Hot Engine Idle Compensators and the very rare Bleed back system used on Trip Master equiped Variable Venturi and Cop car 2150E Motor Craft 5.8 liter HO engines, 1980-85, and 85 to 91 Squad cars. Simarly, Ford Australia used the Mopar ThermoQuad in Cleveland's from 76-85, and some AMCs, Ford and GM overseas in Australia sorted the 4bbl problems out in the 80s, and won at the European Touring car races with 350 hp Q jets on 5 liter racing Holdens which took down BMW and used some really tricky parts most people no longer understand.
I had vapor lock issues in both my 351 Ford V-8's. One was in a 1976 Ford E250 van and the other was in my 26 ft. Shamrock boat. The inboard engine in the boat wouldn't start when I needed it most. In the Atlantic Ocean with a sudden drop in temps on a hot day and a BAD summer storm with really heavy winds and seas heading right for us.
Living in Florida, this is a constant struggle. Recently caved in and added an electric pump to my friend’s 1939 Ford Woody. Was sick and tired of him getting stuck. Flathead pumps are right on top of the engine, in the worst spot for percolation.
My dad had an old pontiac that vapor locked frequently. He fixed it by clipping a bunch od spring type wooden cloths pins to the metal gas line between the fuel pump and carb. Every time a mechanic saw them they would always ask about the cloths pins!😂
Another Great Video UTG. On the fuel pumps, one of the old tricks we used to do in this high altitude in Idaho was to use a mechanical fuel pump for a vehicle that calls for Air Conditioning. The AC cars and trucks used that 3rd nipple. If it didn't have it, then we would have to run the line back to the tank. Again, good stuff guys!
Tony, your video on vapor lock reminded me of another problem we had in the 70's, IIRC was related, to heat and bad quality gas. If you need a topic to discuss for a future video, consider doing one regarding "Diesling" and what was needed to fix the issue.
Its interesting that your 4.0 has a non return fuel system. My 89, 94, and 95 4.0s all have a fuel return to the tank. Must be one of the many small things they changed in 97. Actually, that would make it NOT a problem with early fuel injection systems, just later ones.
The information basically correct but it could have been a bit clearer. When fuel boils in the carb it's called percolation not vapor lock. Vapor lock is the inability to pump fuel in the vapor state. Vapor lock causes fuel starvation. Percolation occurs in the carb and causes flooding. Both are fuel problems caused by heat but they are very different. One is too lean the other too rich. Calling both of them vapor lock is going to confuse people.
@@michaelgarrow3239No, the fuel vapor will not lift the float. The float is much denser than fuel vapor. Percolation causes fuel to shoot put of the boosters and into the venturi. In really bad cases it can shoot out the vent. It is most common when you shut the engine off and heat soak occurs, but it can occur at idle. If it happens after shutdown, the engine will be flooded and be hard to restart. It is particularly troublesome with modern fuels. Modern fuels have much more butane in them then fuels did in the past. Butane is one of the products generated by petroleum distillation. It burns well in an engine but it is volatile. Butane boils at 30 F, but can be dissolved in gasoline much like CO2 in soda. Add a little heat and it will come right out creating vapor.
Remember the 80s action movies when the car would explode for a mile. Now a days you can barely get the gas to ignite. So our cars and movies suck now. How about chuck norris vs vapor lock..how would that play out?
Workin on a Chevy 350, Ive been rebuilding the fuel system and that 3rd vent line caused so many headaches cause so many people just dont understand. You helped me understand way more. Love the channel. You have helped so much. Knowledge is greatest when it can be transfered
we actually just saw that return filter trick used on a 49 chevy for the first time the other day. a friend solved his vapor lock issue that way, i thought it was a good move. nice video tony look forward to more
I always wondered why some people wou have clothes pegs on the fuel lines, 😮 but haven't seen them since I started playing with engines in the 84's thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones
Great video! Just going to point out that ethonal has been around a lot longer in the corn growing states, mandated in Minnesota in the 90s. I first saw "gasohol" in the late 70s on a trip to Iowa. Most of the coop gas stations had it in farm towns because the corn lobby was pushing it heavily. Car companies were gearing up for it by the early 80s. I remember Ford issued a service bulletin for the variable venturi carburetors, you drill one hole and replaced the diafram that worked the venturi. It also boils at 160 degrees, which is hotter than other components in gasoline since they started making gasoline. I don't care for the political aspects of the stuff but having used it in all sorts of things for years and looking at it objectively, it gets blamed for more problems than it causes, like a ballast resister.
Ethanol is what cars ran on before prohibition, the Ford T was dual fuel, you retard the timing and lean the mix to run gasoline, advance the timing and richen the mix to run ethanol. Henry Ford was big into farmers producing grain, making fuel, and running their Ford vehicles and equipment on it. J.D. Rockefeller was far less enthused about farmers not using gasoline and diesel... which is why he funded the people who gave us the Volstead Act. At sea level ethanol boils at 173F, with altitude that temperature drops. You're right though, ethanol gets blamed for lots of things it does not cause. After producing my own hydrous ethanol, meaning it has 4% to 10% water still in it, and running E85 when I don't have home brew since 2007 in my 60s and 70s era Pontiacs, I can tell you how much better it is to run ethanol than gasoline if you want performance. Eschew gasoline entirely, other than the bit that is in E85, and you can run 13:1 compression in your daily driver without issue, and it can get better mileage than a low compression gasoline engine of the same size will get. Also it will make considerably more power, but people like to hate on vodka fuel.
Really interesting info brother, thank you! Are you employing these similar methods Tony discussed for keeping the vapor lock as bay? Or adjusting the timing for different driving scenarios?
@Ryan Stinson No I really don't do anything different for the regular 10% stuff. Just one of those like 1/4 in. thick gaskets under the carb and a fuel filter with a return line. However this is northern Minnesota, summer only lasts like four days up here. The 66 Volvo in my pic has the stock twin SU carb set up runs fine on 10% ethanol too. That car needs 91 octane most of that here is ethanol free but one station in town has both, can't tell the difference at all. I tried the cheaper 87 octane but it definitely needs 91 to keep from pinging and detonation. For the life of me I can't remember where the compression ended up when I built that 2 liter 4 popper. Need to take notes. 😆
@@americanrelics Right! For my off road rig I kept a carb (holley truck avenger). The thing about carbs is they don't 'break', they wear out. Worse fix I might have to do on the trail is a needle/seat that is stuck open. Even a blown power valve and the darn thing will keep running. I tossed on an electric pump near the tank and a fuel pressure gauge at the carb.
@@olliehopnoodle4628 100%. Carbs are easy and cheap to repair, and even easier to diagnose. EFI presents an insane amount of variables and when something breaks, down the electronics rabbit hole you go.
@@americanrelics Totally agree. I wouldn't swap the factory EFI in my 2019 Colorado but my 1982 Cherokee (which came with a carb) and now has a 50 year old 401 from a 70's Jav is sporting that holley truck avenger. The Holley TA is actually a really good off road fuel delivery system, I can't remember the last time it flooded and I run it as some decent angles. Sure, when I got up in Altitude I rejet, but that's a 15 minute operation.
On point, UT. Ford 300 6 EFI from 87-95 some models have an electric blower that directs air flow to the rail and injectors, and they run higher fuel pressure than the 5.0/5.8 and 7.5, to combat vapor lock on those models. High altitude can factor in also.
I have such issues too. My plan is to reline my fuel line to the fire wall via regulator (elec. pump already in the back) and a spacer for the carb. A bypass or return line is not on my radar so far. Hope it will help. For now the preowner installed a regulator (no gauge) where the mech pump would sit and the line has much contact with the heads and so on.
In a trippy sort of way people 100 Years from now will watch this to see how to get an old car to run. It’s like a video encyclopedia of knowledge. Crazy to think ahead like that
Great video. I have had this problem as well being a Mopar guy with older vehicles. I changed my steel fuel line with aluminum line and problem was solved. Good time to change to 3/8 line to keep big hp engines from starvation at higher rpm's. Insulating the line going into the engine compartment all the way to the carb also helps a bunch. Also changed to an electric fuel pump so as to eliminate the heat that a mechanical pump can hold. Keep up the great video's, thank you
UT - Good video - it makes me remember something from 42 years ago... My Dad bought a new 1980 Chevy Caprice wagon - I was 15 years old at the time. It had a 267 V8, which was a Chevy smog engine in those days. In '81, to prepair for a long road trip, my Dad replaced the oil and filters. (I always helped my Dad work on cars, even back then). We found that the carburator looked like a Q-Jet, but there were no secondaries in the carb - just metal over where the secondary barrels would be. It was actually just a two barrel carb. (GM probably did this to manufacture one intake manifold). They even put steel caps over the mixture adustment screws. If I am full of whooey about this, let me know - but that's the way I remember it 42 years ago. Anyway, during our road trip to Colorado, we drove up Pike's Peak. The car was acting like it was running out of gas while climbing the mountain. At the time, my Dad thought it was caused by the high altitude (which it was). But after whatching this video, I think it was vapor lock. Here is my theory : The engine was laboring to pull the car up the mountain. The air was thin so it was running lean and generating lot of heat. Since the Q-Jet style carburator didn't have secondaries, there was no air flow at the back of the fuel bowl to cool the bowl. This caused vapor lock and the car behaved like it was running out of gas. Mystery solved ? Probably. Thanks UT.
You taught me how to fix my vapor lock. I drive a 62 impala that I’m restoring and restored 4 years ago. I would drive it in the summer and my car would shut off in the Wendy’s drive thru and everywhere in between. I thought I was running out of gas. Anyways you sir taught me how to fix mine. Routed a return line with a fuel filter that has 3rd nipple. I routed my return line to the filler neck. Drilled a hole into the filler neck then cleaned it out. Everyone else drills a hole into the gas tank, I’m too lazy I didn’t go that route. Well it’s worked well for me. I’ve been driving in 2 summers since. I live in south texas and drive my Lowrider every single day. It gets 110 degrees here sometimes. Anyways since you taught me how to fix it I’ve never had problems. Close to my manifold I covered my fuel lines with heat shield. Car has never ever stalled since. I’ve been driving long distance to car shows with the engine on for 4+ hours at a time. No vapor lock
Have a 51 Chrysler. Got vapor lock like crazy on 80-90 degree days in traffic. Replaced all steel fuel lines with Copper lines, also made a coil of it from the pump to the carb that sits near the fan for added cooling. Never had an issue again.
A thermoquad would still be a problem on intake systems that use exhaust crossovers that meter localized egr components, and hot air chokes. That’s why GM didn’t use them. It was still cooler leaving the bowl between the throttles, abs just isolate the whole thing with fat gaskets and tin plates.
I've owned three carbureted cars, and *knock on wood* I only experienced vapor lock on one of them. My first car was an 81 horizon with the Volkswagen 1.7 that was given to me and that thing would vapor lock like crazy. It ran very hot and when I'd restart it on a hot day it would only make it about 50 ft before it would die and not start up again. I occasionally got to the point where I actually would remove the fuel filter and suck fuel on through to get it to be able to pump. I never experienced vapor lock with my 79 225 Volare or my 68 318 Barracuda.
Thanks UT. I currently use a rubber fuel line wrapped with heat foil from the fuel pump to the carb. I guess I'll convert back to steel on your advice.
Ive used the 3 nipple filter suggested by UTG and also a small electric pusher pump at the fuel tank. Get rid of the mechanical pump, and reroute the fuel line to carb to the firewall. Keeps it away from exhaust maniolds altogether.
My 1973 Datsun 240Z was mostly stock when I got it. It had the dealer-installed vapor-lock update equipment on it: - An electric pusher pump n front of the fuel tank, to pressurize the fuel line and mechanical pump on the engine. - An upgraded mechanical fuel pump - A heat shield between the intake and exhaust manifolds - Aluminum coated fiberglass wrapping on the fuel lines from the mechanical pump to the 2 carburetors.
And people told me I was wasting money with an inline pump and a return style bypass regulator on a carbureted engine..."you can just deadhead it! you don't need all that junk!" HA!
I've had good luck just insulating the hard lines with hardware store foil backed pipe insulation tape, that's what the clothespins actually do, act as insulation.
The Toyota straight six 2F engine has a the carb sitting above the interlinked intake and exhaust manifold. They added a fan to blow on the carb for 10 minutes after you turn off the engine. There is also a bakelite spacer at the base of carb that is more heat resistant than aluminum.
Those early 4.0 jeeps with returnless fuel systems had a tsb back in the day where we would put a heat shield under the rail to protect it from exhaust heat to help with vapor lock/bucking and stalling
I ran into the heat soak/vapor lock issue with my 4L in my jeep off roading on hot summer days. my fix was hood louvers, and it fixed the problem 100% BUT some aftermarket off road companies sell a foil back shaped insulation to go over the fuel rail to help keep the fuel cool.
My 81 gmc Caballero started vapor locking on me this weekend so i got a ducting tube from O'Reilly's ran it from in front of the radiator to the carburetor to feed it cool fresh air and it started running so much better and vapor lock stopped. Im running a 305 with a 2 barrel Rochester.
I had a couple of Ford Trucks that had clothes pins on the gas line to deal with vapor lock. I think I had 2 or 3 wood clothes pins on the 1965 Ford F-100 with the 240 inline six, then I remember having a 1970 something Ford that had something like 8 wood clothes pin's on the fuel line to deal with vapor lock. One of the trucks I put a flex fan on to help cool the engine, which I think was the 1965 Ford F-100 and think the 1972 I had to put a fan shroud on to stop that one from vapor locking or over heating after I replaced the radiator. I am thinking it was the 1977 Ford F350 with the 360 V8 that had 8 wood clothes pins on to stop the vapor locking. But every Ford V8 engine I ever saw, had the fuel line come up from the fuel pump and snake under the alternator and between the water pump up to the carberator. That is until Ford went to fuel injection, then it came in behind the engine block to the fuel rails on the intake. Had an uncle on my dad's side, that drove an old Dodge truck with a slant 6 in it that had aluminum foil wrapped all over the intake to stop the vapor locking. You have not seen stupid locking until you have seen a slant 6 intake covered in aluminum foil.
I know I sound like a broken record, but Seafoam will help deter the effects of E10 fuel, including vapor lock to a point. At least there won't be the alcohol separation. Try it.
Best thing I did to fix vapor lock problems on my charger was to put an electric fuel pump near the tank. No more vapor locking anymore. Completely fixed my issues.
I heard a story from an old mechanic about an 1960’s Pontiac V8 that kept vapor locking during the summer and the story was that he cut a grapefruit in half and jammed it onto the mechanical fuel pump in a way that it wedged so it wouldn’t fall off and it insulated the fuel pump from the engine and exhaust heat and thus prevented the fuel from boiling
Vapor lock helped to keep Auto zone (was Auto Shack) in business for years. From people not knowing what it was and just firing the old parts cannon at their engines and cars.. 😂 until someone that did know walks up and said "well there's yer problem right there Vern."
I had a 59 Chevy apache that would vapor lock and close pins on the fuel line between the pump and carb fixed it. This was back in the early 80s in Dallas
A Phenolic Birchwood spacer and a metal fuel filter placed up off of the intake works virtually every time. Yes, you can absolutely make your own, gasket each side and run it. I had a thermostat go bad and ran 220-225 all the way across the county coming home from a car show, in the Texas heat, with a 10.75/1 motor that likes to get hot, ping and vapor lock on anything under 100 octane. Never vapor locked. Never pinged. Even on 93. Before the birchwood spacer she was always looking to flash the fuel over to vapor, turn to pop-poo and lock down. Not anymore. She just runs. 😎
Good stuff. I got bit by a vaporlock issue on a dead headed system decades back and had I known it back then, I would have dropped the tank and installed a sending unit with a return line fitting before ever going cross country. For some reason, it never was an issue around town - took about two hours of driving to show up in most cases, depending on ambient. Guess it was because I wasn't using gas fast enough going steady state down the highway to cool the system!
I used a fuel filter with the 3 nipples on my carbureted 83 5.0 Mustang and even on 100+ degree days driving in heavy traffic I never had a vapor lock in the 15 years I owned it.
These are great tips. I live in hot central Florida and get periodic vapor lock in my Paxton supercharged built 302. I will look at adding some of these ideas. THANKS TONY!!! June 29, 2023.
Carb spacer and a pint of kerosene, that worked best for me after the fuel changes from the 90s until 2015 when I had my 400 Ltd. Never had any issues.
Can’t tell you how much I enjoyed this video. Very new to working on a ‘78 Ford 400 and this helped me understand a lot about these two issues. Already subscribed, thanks a ton Sir.
One thing to note is as pressure increases more energy is required to turn a liquid to a gas. Thats why a lot of older efi systems and especially carbs are susceptible to vapor lock. An old school efi such as that 4L runs somewhere around 40 psi max. Mopar tbi was around 15 psi but is a return style. Modern mopars and the like are dead headed fuel systems but are around 60 psi. Main thing to do is isolate from heat and keep fuel moving. Only times my old rides have vapor lock is if it sits for 30 min after driving it will boil and cause a longer crank. No big deal for me. Very good info as usual 👍
I was watching an old Master Tech video. They recommended that all high performance cars have a fuel pressure regulator installed. The Chrysler part #2240633. I am a GM guy and have never seen/heard of this before! Have you personally have any experience with this part?
Back in 77we had a 350 camaro balanced and blue printed we went to see blue oyster cult it was hot it vapor locked we didn't know we were 18 went to a station put it on a sunken diagnostics system ended up the metal fuel line was to close to the radiator hose problem solved that mnfer ran 7300 rpm with a 538 gear burn out heaven
I delivered pizza with a 1999 cherokee for years running a 50/50 mix of e85 petro gas. It lowered the temperature of my engine from what I saw on the gauage.But if you want to run a vapor line back on a cherokee it might be possible if you got a 1996 or older tank and line set up I'm pretty sure they had a return line.
I have a TBI Cadillac. TBI systems work on a max fuel pressure of 12 lbs. most run between 8-10. My caddy will hold its 9.5 lbs for about a half an hour. With the Reid Vapor Pressure EPA standards that have now been completely eliminated and, the introduction of over 15% of ethanol used ALL YEAR ROUND, I have a problem with any carbureted and fuel injected cars made before 2002. My 89 caddy, and my wife’s 99 accord all have vapor lock if the motor is allowed to sit hot for between 20-40 minutes. There’s enough heat soak to cause them both to have a 2 foot gas chamber within the fuel feed line.
Finally! Some solid tips on fixin yo ride, clothespin I knew it ,if I kept watching this channel I would finally get some real solid advice, perseverance paid off lol
Hey UTC! question? in performance cars and modern fuel injection, air is fed through a plenum and duct from a location like a fender or headlight. how come so many folks run carbureted cars with an open filter right on top of the hot engine and behind a radiator that blows hot air. even in a factory format, most air cleaners have a snorkel that faces towards the fenders or something to attempt to pull colder air. my question is: what is better? a fully open air cleaner on top of the engine or a air duct system that allows colder air in?
Tony..you nailed it man and great job as a small scale carb. rebuilder I have said the same to guys that i do carbs with man as far as the heat/gas goes for the regular guy/no money here in east tn. the blame the carb. usually the quad or edelbrock are the worse,even with a insulater block,holley...not as bad....but the gas is the culprit..if you dig end why the thermoquad was designed after the quad was due to the gas and g.m. had pull back then to get the gas companys to put whatever it was in the gas to make it not to that...unlike today...beleive me doing carbs for people just dont understand what you stated and you nailed it man.....I tell people to at least run a air gap intake....the plastic/wood insulators sometimes work...but depending on the carb.....you are spot on.
Same problem with my slant six Volare, which would stall after running for a bit then restart when it sat for a few minutes. The heat riser was stuck open roasting the carburetor. I wired it shut while trying to find a replacement which of course makes it cold-blooded while it warms up.
You are my go to man with any regards I have with my 73 440 roadrunner, and as I live in Australia, good advice isn’t available here. If u were my neighbor 🤔………….. ude be sick of the sight of me 😂😂😂😂. 🙌🙌🙌. Keep up the great work UT. Regards, Dave Australia.
Uncle Tony in the 1970’s my mum sold a cleaning product here in australia called “Swipe” it was a copy of “Amway” and i swear that bottle on your left with the red cap looks like an old swipe/Amway dishwashing detergent bottle……!!! Surely not - couldn’t last that long….??!!
I have a 1980 GMC 1 ton pickup with a 454 big block that I use to harvest and haul cord wood. If the outdoor temperature is 75 degrees or over, it will vapor lock EVERY DAMN TIME !! When I pull over and lift the hood, I can hear the gasoline boiling in the carburetor. It's annoying as hell. The good thing is I'm only cutting 6 or 7 chords per summer so I don't have too many trips and I try to cut on cool days. Oh, and it is at high altitude, over 5k feet. I found that If I let it sit for about 5 minutes, then pour a little gas down the carb, it will start.
My big block chevy truck had vapor lock too, every time I drove it, it would shut down... I tried everything to fix it and believe it or not getting the vacuum advance hooked up and dialed in is what finally fixed it. Good luck.
Thought I'd share my recent experience with vapor lock. I bought an old Chevy truck that would get up to about 215 degrees, then shut down with vapor lock, every time I drove it, even on the interstate with plenty of air moving through the grill... I also noticed after coasting to the side of the road and popping the hood open, the amount of heat under the hood was unbearable, forcing you to step back... First, I replaced everything in the cooling system, new radiator, new water pump, new thermostat, new fan clutch, and it still would get too hot and shut down... Then I tried insulating the fuel lines, blocked off the heat riser passages in the intake, and added a carburetor spacer, still got too hot... Then I started to notice a pattern where I could hear the fan clutch engage and start to pull more air through the radiator right before it would shut down at 215 degrees. So, I "recalibrated" the fan clutch by adjusting the little thermostatic clock spring on the front of the fan clutch. Only had to turn it like an 1/8 of an inch (think it was counterclockwise) and now the fan pulls much more air, but it still would get too hot and shut down... Then I did a little research and decided to check my vacuum advance... Then, the only changes I made were to switch the vacuum advance from a ported vacuum source to a manifold vacuum source, and adjusted the vacuum pot one and a half turns to maximize advance... That is what finally fixed it!!! Now the temperature gauge stays around 170-180 degrees even in traffic, in the hot south-east. My gas mileage got much better as well... Anyway, great videos!!
Thank you for this, helpful!
That's because at cruise the mix leans out, lean burns slower, so you need more advance to light the fire earlier and not dump it into the exhaust and cooling systems. Everything must work together.
@@Broken_Yugo Another interesting thing I noticed was a while back, on another vehicle, I disconnected the vacuum advance to check initial timing and forgot to reconnect it when I finished. When I drove it down the interstate with vacuum advance disconnected, I noticed that I had to keep my foot in the throttle like halfway, almost opening the secondaries on the four -barrel carburetor just to stay at 65 MPH. Once I reconnected the vacuum advance, I could cruise at 65 MPH with the throttle barely cracked open. With vacuum advance disconnected, my gas mileage was half what it was before, I assume the difference in throttle opening had a lot to do with why gas mileage was so different... As far as engine running temperature goes, I imagine the late timing causes the fuel to burn too late in the cycle (at the bottom of the cylinder) which heats up the whole length of the cylinder walls, and like you said also still burning on its way out in the exhaust manifolds making them hotter and dispersing even more heat under the hood.
Exactly! Running manifold advance is the way to go. I had a similar experience. I also noticed that my engine got a LOT quieter. I was able to take my ‘72 F350 flatbed from 9 mpg when I first got it to 24mpg. A big part of that was switching to manifold
holley carb?
UTG is like an encyclopedia of motoring knowledge with a historical perspective like no other.
UTG reminds me of my dad ...aaaaa lot.
👍🏼😄🤟🏼 from '57 to 2018- a grease monkey, mopar die hard from the start, scrappin two pennies to create a quarter.
My only experience with it was on my 74 VW super beetle. My friend and I pushed that car for miles and when my dad got me back to it the car started just fine. That’s when he told me about vapor lock… proving an 18 year old kid can learn from his dad.
Yep. Mine was a 64 VW.
Left me stranded more than once.
One other thing about modern fuel… they actually CHANGE the boiling point of the fuel twice a year. They lower the boiling point (raise the equilibrium vapor pressure) in winter, allegedly to lower emissions by getting the fuel to vaporize better for clean combustion. Then they raise it in summer to prevent unburned fuel emissions from gas evaporation out of car gas tanks and gas station storage tanks. The result of that is that you are now more likely to get vapor lock on a warm day in winter than on a hot day in summer… and it’s really bad on cars that are rarely driven and can get all the way into late spring early summer and still have winter gas in the tank.
Just to get some of youse guyz tinkin', back in the 80's Mercedes used to run the fuel line up into the engine compartment, coil it about a dozen times around the cold side A/C line, and then on the the throttle body. So, if it was hot enough outside to turn on the A/C, presto you had cold gas going into the engine. Smart dudes them Germanz.
Two other things, though, one commenter had touched on one. Electric cooling fans on a timer and pressure. The cooling fans do double duty. They reduce the heat soak in both the cooling system and the fuel system after the engine is off.
The pressure thing is kinda touched on, but not directly addressed on Bottle Rocket. Much like pressure in a cooling system keeps the water from boiling, so too will pressure help keep fuel from boiling. Having a high pressure fuel delivery system with a return style pressure regulator is ideal to reduce vapor lock.
I used the "eight dollar" cure on my '68 Fury VIP (318 2 bbl) by getting the same Wix fuel filter that would have gone on my '80 Cordoba (318 2bbl) and adding a return line that is hooked up to a tee at the tank. Also covered all my fuel lines under the hood with that slip on insulation from the carb to the filter, the factory fuel line down to the pump and also the return line from the filter down to the frame rail. Works great, no more problems after that.
Hey Patrick, I am going to do the same , when you say you teed it to the tank is it to a tee fitting at the fuel sending unit's fuel line? Thank you im trying to figure this out if I can do it like that also. I much rather do it your way then have to drill a new hole and add a bung and all that, thank you 😊
@@juliancapucetti8190are you may be able to get a sending unit that has the inlet in for the return line. I'm looking at that for my 1967 barracuda that originally did not have one but I intend to add one.
@@robertarends2458 hey Robert 👋 my 63 c20 doesn't have a sending unit for it. I got the efi filler neck kit which I intend to install...pretty easy solution but much rather have it go fuel sending unit somehow, I can also drill a hole and weld/solder fitting into it
My grandfather used to keep clothes pins on his line to draw heat out
I swear to the almighty, your video might have just helped me figure out an issue I've been stumped on for 6 months now. I've got this 91 Camaro that was molested the worst I've ever seen a third gen butchered. I'll try and keep it short, It was gutted of it's electronics and had a 305 someone put effort into slapped with a Edelbrock 1406 on top, ran great without issue for the first 3 weeks into owning it. Throws a rod bearing, pretty sure the external balance flywheel they put on the neutral balanced engine was the culprit. They ran an inline pump mounted on the driver rear floor pan with specs saying it pumped 5psi to a regulator by the brake master cylinder with no return. I decided to spend the last 2 years restoring it, I put a crate motor 350 mounted to a T-5 and decided to put a posi/disk 4th gen rear end in it, figured I'd replace the fuel tank/sender/in tank pump while I'm at it so I have the option to convert it back to it's factory fuel injection. So I converted it from the dead head returnless to a return system with a quality regulator. Got it together, first 4-5 test runs ran perfectly,they were only 20 mins at most. First time I drove it longer about 45 mins in it's like it's starving for fuel as I'm cruising down the highway, pull over pressure gauge say 0, can hear the pump and see fuel in the inline filter, adjust it back to 5psi runs fine for another hour. I start it the next day it's pegging 14psi blowing fuel out of everywhere on the carburetor. Just a pack pressure held same thing 45 minutes in does it and I repeat this cycle several times, trying different things they'll finally I just say screw it and put a second regulator in line, It reduced the erratic fuel pressure but it still happens enough to be a problem. All right now realize I have about 3 ft of rubber hose probably two of it wrapping around the carburetor sitting on top of a GM 350 stove basically cooking the fuel past the second regulator and probably about another foot between the two regulators and the return line that sits within 4 in of an exhaust header. I am now thinking my problem is the heat soaking into the rubber fuel line is the reason why with fixed spring rate set at the regulators the fuel pressure is All over the place without rhyme or reason.
I'm going to try rerouting with Hardline avoiding the engine as much as possible and see if that fixes it running one regulator and if it does I'll have to come back with a big fat thank you for making this video.
Allied forces during WW2 behind enemy lines in Africa(Long Range Desert Group - look it up) , used to,when they stopped, turn their trucks/jeeps into the wind and lift up their bonnets (hoods) to get the latent cooling while taking a break.
You are far more informative than my ASE teacher was 20 years ago. You really are a wealth of knowledge!
Eh. I get what your saying most teachers suck. But Uncle Tony has 20 years more Now then your teacher did then. Most the time. You have to. HAVE to go to the engineers writings. (Most people don’t take the time to be correct or listen to the manufacturer of said part.. I mean they spent two years making it, they would have a slight idea) Most mechanics just repair, very few figure out who what when where and why. And there is an old saying, Those who Can, Do. Those who can’t, Teach.
🤷♂️
My teacher 20 years ago took a carburetor out and threw it in the trash for effect and said “you will never have to work on these again”. Lol
ASE means "Almost Started Engine".
Not to sound "political", but there are a few ways the gov't is going to try eliminating our old carbed gas burners. One is the fuel. A couple more? Well, they tried eliminating zinc (which some say flat-tappet cams don't need, but I disagree) from engine oil, so only a few "hot rod" type oils have it in any significant amount. Then there's parts availability and quality. Parts for some newer cars are going obsolete now, and the replacement parts that are actually available are pure crap in many instances. It's getting ugly, and it's gonna get uglier, unfortunately. Take care, Tony! Thanks for the great vids, man.
The fuel injection returnless systems have this topic covered. The method is to vary fuel pump speed based on fuel rail temp. At higher fuel rail temp, fuel pump output is increased, increasing rail pressure, raising boiling point to prevent vapor lock.
Makes sense. So a failing old fuel pump might contribute to vapor lock? I had a Dodge intrepid, returnless fuel injection, in the summer, the car would not start again until the engine cooled off.
I've had Vapor lock in a fuel injected car. a 98 (catfish) Camaro. It was a very hot day. 112 Degrees in the shade. After driving 45 mins and then sitting in traffic, i then pulled into a place to get some take-out for my dinner. Came back out, and the car wouldn't start. Siting there parked after that long drive on such a hot day, it became heat-soaked and the fuel in the fuel rails boiled off. The fuel pump was making a very weird noise too. I was told that the fuel boiling in the rail, being a closed system, the increased pressure pushed fuel backward through the fuel pump and the fuel pump and the entire fuel system filled with vapor. The fuel pump failed about two weeks later. I'm guessing it became damaged in some way from this.
I use a plywood spacer under my quadrajet.. yes... Wood .. helped a lot with heat soak ..
My Dad was a woodworker and had a guy buying carb spacers made of oak, as he said they were the best insulators available.
Late 70’s and early 80’s Datsun Z’s with the inline 6 had a small fan on the side of the engine with plastic ducting that would turn on after the engine was shut off. It would kick on maybe 30 seconds after the key is shut off and would run for a few minutes. The air would come from the cooler side of the engine and blow over the fuel rail, to keep it cool for that first few minutes after the key was shut off, so that you could restart the car if you only stopped for a minute. Even some recirculating fuel systems had vapor lock issues.
Hi VW, I worked with Nissan during those days, when the first 300's came out they had a problem with heat soak restarts, the fix was replace the injectors with a recirculating type, but the funny thing is that not all of them did this, it was only a certain percentage, go figure.
Blue Mule
What I remember about them early Z's were that you had to have skills like a surgeon or bomb removal guy when unplugging injectors.
@@indianaslim4971 yes. That is why I do not have a 1979 280ZX anymore. Imagine working with 40+ year old connectors. I ended up having to solder new ones in.
This guy has learned me more in the last 3 hours then any asshole wanting my money when they see my old k10 come beating the earth when I pull into the shop. I'm new to the SBC game and I can tell you Everyone needs a uncle tony.
Why do they try to charge a lot to work on these
along time in the past i had a 49 ford pickup with vaporlock i found that puting 3 closepegs on the line near the fulepump fixed it
A few ideas that help in this issue of vapor lock: like your brake lines'coils next to the master cylinder: Coil/ spiral your steel fuel line.. this technique disperses heat (remember why the brake lines are like that by the master cylinder, & very close to the exhaust manifold/ header: to disperse heat: boiled brake lines= no brakes.
Another idea: coil up/ spiral up your fuel line away from headers/ exhaust piping & have it inside a metal coffee can: if need being on certain occasions now u can fill that coffee can with ice.
Another idea: use a brand new "universal trans cooler" plumb your fuel lines through that, then to fuel pressure regulator/ carb, & so forth. Header wrap exhaust stuff, & coolant hoses if need being. You'd be surprised how well a combination of these techniques work well.
The brake lines were coiled to allow movement between the body and frame on vehicles with a separate frame. Duh
15:02 I use to use a small Ford power steering cooler in line with the fuel line.
Clothes pins was my father’s cure for vapor lock. I have seen tin foil wrapped around the fuel line also.
I always liked watching the temperature gauge go up after shutting off the engine, and then restarting it after 15-20 minutes, and watching the temp gauge drop significantly as the water from the radiator which was able to cool down, circulates through the engine, dropping the temperature.
Having delt with vapor lock over many times, ive went to a home made bypass fuel system using an electric fuel pump. Lots of examples to look up and copy, I route the lines away from the heat as much as possible, it works great when properly setup to keep your good ol simple carb system going on the dishwater crap fuel we have to run, I used non eth gas when I can but its just not available everywhere.
Yep, low fuel pressure and high temperature is the cause.
The condition was first noticed on old gravity fed carburetors like the old Tractors, & Model A's T's and all it required to cure was the lowly clothes pin.
There’s actually a technical service bulletin for vapor lock on the Jeep 4.0. It is mostly a problem with the 2000 and later engines that had iron exhaust manifolds and the two pre-cats up close to the manifold below the engine, rather than back under the floor. The “fix” is insulating socks over the fuel injectors (especially #3). It definerky helped on my 2000 Cherokee. My daughter’s 99 Cherokee never had the problem, since it had the older exhaust design.
Well….sorta…. My 98 Cherokee would experience a hot soak “stumble” on warm days when it would be parked somewhere after driving for a while, then be started back up and go to drive off. Within a few seconds of driving off, you would feel a momentary hesitation almost like the engine was trying to die for a split second, then it would run just fine. I concluded from doing research on the problem that the injectors were experiencing heat soak while the engine was shut down, so in effect it was vapor locking until the fuel pump could pressurize the fuel rail again. It’s possible the fuel pump was getting a bit weak and a replacement may have solved the problem, but I never saw any other indications of a failing pump. No extended crank or other issues. I drove the thing for years and it did it from day one.
Thanks for this information
This is foundational Learning, and I love it, UTG. 🥝✔️
Vapor Lock is a Whole lotta Nothing with the proper tools Chrysler and AMC devised. Love especially the Hot Engine Idle Compensators and the very rare Bleed back system used on Trip Master equiped Variable Venturi and Cop car 2150E Motor Craft 5.8 liter HO engines, 1980-85, and 85 to 91 Squad cars. Simarly, Ford Australia used the Mopar ThermoQuad in Cleveland's from 76-85, and some AMCs, Ford and GM overseas in Australia sorted the 4bbl problems out in the 80s, and won at the European Touring car races with 350 hp Q jets on 5 liter racing Holdens which took down BMW and used some really tricky parts most people no longer understand.
I had vapor lock issues in both my 351 Ford V-8's. One was in a 1976 Ford E250 van and the other was in my 26 ft. Shamrock boat. The inboard engine in the boat wouldn't start when I needed it most. In the Atlantic Ocean with a sudden drop in temps on a hot day and a BAD summer storm with really heavy winds and seas heading right for us.
Living in Florida, this is a constant struggle. Recently caved in and added an electric pump to my friend’s 1939 Ford Woody. Was sick and tired of him getting stuck. Flathead pumps are right on top of the engine, in the worst spot for percolation.
My dad had an old pontiac that vapor locked frequently. He fixed it by clipping a bunch od spring type wooden cloths pins to the metal gas line between the fuel pump and carb. Every time a mechanic saw them they would always ask about the cloths pins!😂
Another Great Video UTG. On the fuel pumps, one of the old tricks we used to do in this high altitude in Idaho was to use a mechanical fuel pump for a vehicle that calls for Air Conditioning. The AC cars and trucks used that 3rd nipple. If it didn't have it, then we would have to run the line back to the tank.
Again, good stuff guys!
I ran a external fuel pump on my jeep till a few hot days during the summer caused vapor lock. I finally got the correct stock intank pump for it.
Tony, your video on vapor lock reminded me of another problem we had in the 70's, IIRC was related, to heat and bad quality gas. If you need a topic to discuss for a future video, consider doing one regarding "Diesling" and what was needed to fix the issue.
Its interesting that your 4.0 has a non return fuel system. My 89, 94, and 95 4.0s all have a fuel return to the tank. Must be one of the many small things they changed in 97.
Actually, that would make it NOT a problem with early fuel injection systems, just later ones.
The information basically correct but it could have been a bit clearer. When fuel boils in the carb it's called percolation not vapor lock. Vapor lock is the inability to pump fuel in the vapor state. Vapor lock causes fuel starvation. Percolation occurs in the carb and causes flooding. Both are fuel problems caused by heat but they are very different. One is too lean the other too rich. Calling both of them vapor lock is going to confuse people.
You confused me… 🙈
@@michaelgarrow3239 vapor lock causes fuel starvation. Percolating causes flooding. Hope that makes sense to you.
Thanks alot, what you said is very helpful and I easily understand it.
@@jam46psu - wouldn’t “percolating” raise the float and shut off the fuel?
@@michaelgarrow3239No, the fuel vapor will not lift the float. The float is much denser than fuel vapor. Percolation causes fuel to shoot put of the boosters and into the venturi. In really bad cases it can shoot out the vent. It is most common when you shut the engine off and heat soak occurs, but it can occur at idle. If it happens after shutdown, the engine will be flooded and be hard to restart. It is particularly troublesome with modern fuels. Modern fuels have much more butane in them then fuels did in the past. Butane is one of the products generated by petroleum distillation. It burns well in an engine but it is volatile. Butane boils at 30 F, but can be dissolved in gasoline much like CO2 in soda. Add a little heat and it will come right out creating vapor.
Remember the 80s action movies when the car would explode for a mile. Now a days you can barely get the gas to ignite. So our cars and movies suck now. How about chuck norris vs vapor lock..how would that play out?
Workin on a Chevy 350, Ive been rebuilding the fuel system and that 3rd vent line caused so many headaches cause so many people just dont understand. You helped me understand way more. Love the channel. You have helped so much. Knowledge is greatest when it can be transfered
we actually just saw that return filter trick used on a 49 chevy for the first time the other day. a friend solved his vapor lock issue that way, i thought it was a good move. nice video tony look forward to more
I always wondered why some people wou have clothes pegs on the fuel lines, 😮 but haven't seen them since I started playing with engines in the 84's thanks for sharing, all the best to you and your loved ones
Watching your videos is always time well spent. I'm always learning something. Thanks, Uncle Tony.
Great video! Just going to point out that ethonal has been around a lot longer in the corn growing states, mandated in Minnesota in the 90s. I first saw "gasohol" in the late 70s on a trip to Iowa. Most of the coop gas stations had it in farm towns because the corn lobby was pushing it heavily. Car companies were gearing up for it by the early 80s. I remember Ford issued a service bulletin for the variable venturi carburetors, you drill one hole and replaced the diafram that worked the venturi. It also boils at 160 degrees, which is hotter than other components in gasoline since they started making gasoline.
I don't care for the political aspects of the stuff but having used it in all sorts of things for years and looking at it objectively, it gets blamed for more problems than it causes, like a ballast resister.
Ethanol is what cars ran on before prohibition, the Ford T was dual fuel, you retard the timing and lean the mix to run gasoline, advance the timing and richen the mix to run ethanol. Henry Ford was big into farmers producing grain, making fuel, and running their Ford vehicles and equipment on it. J.D. Rockefeller was far less enthused about farmers not using gasoline and diesel... which is why he funded the people who gave us the Volstead Act.
At sea level ethanol boils at 173F, with altitude that temperature drops. You're right though, ethanol gets blamed for lots of things it does not cause. After producing my own hydrous ethanol, meaning it has 4% to 10% water still in it, and running E85 when I don't have home brew since 2007 in my 60s and 70s era Pontiacs, I can tell you how much better it is to run ethanol than gasoline if you want performance.
Eschew gasoline entirely, other than the bit that is in E85, and you can run 13:1 compression in your daily driver without issue, and it can get better mileage than a low compression gasoline engine of the same size will get. Also it will make considerably more power, but people like to hate on vodka fuel.
Really interesting info brother, thank you! Are you employing these similar methods Tony discussed for keeping the vapor lock as bay? Or adjusting the timing for different driving scenarios?
@Ryan Stinson No I really don't do anything different for the regular 10% stuff. Just one of those like 1/4 in. thick gaskets under the carb and a fuel filter with a return line. However this is northern Minnesota, summer only lasts like four days up here.
The 66 Volvo in my pic has the stock twin SU carb set up runs fine on 10% ethanol too. That car needs 91 octane most of that here is ethanol free but one station in town has both, can't tell the difference at all. I tried the cheaper 87 octane but it definitely needs 91 to keep from pinging and detonation. For the life of me I can't remember where the compression ended up when I built that 2 liter 4 popper. Need to take notes. 😆
Vapor lock is a pain.
That's why I went EFI
@@Car-dx7qk Going to EFI is getting rid of one problem and introducing a whole bunch of new potential ones.
@@americanrelics Right! For my off road rig I kept a carb (holley truck avenger). The thing about carbs is they don't 'break', they wear out. Worse fix I might have to do on the trail is a needle/seat that is stuck open. Even a blown power valve and the darn thing will keep running. I tossed on an electric pump near the tank and a fuel pressure gauge at the carb.
@@olliehopnoodle4628 100%. Carbs are easy and cheap to repair, and even easier to diagnose. EFI presents an insane amount of variables and when something breaks, down the electronics rabbit hole you go.
@@americanrelics Totally agree. I wouldn't swap the factory EFI in my 2019 Colorado but my 1982 Cherokee (which came with a carb) and now has a 50 year old 401 from a 70's Jav is sporting that holley truck avenger. The Holley TA is actually a really good off road fuel delivery system, I can't remember the last time it flooded and I run it as some decent angles. Sure, when I got up in Altitude I rejet, but that's a 15 minute operation.
On point, UT. Ford 300 6 EFI from 87-95 some models have an electric blower that directs air flow to the rail and injectors, and they run higher fuel pressure than the 5.0/5.8 and 7.5, to combat vapor lock on those models. High altitude can factor in also.
Ive actually seen a vapor lock issue on a Jeep 4.0 before. the technician put heat wrap on the fuel rail. seemed to do the trick
Tony I use header wrap on my all Jeep fuel rails. This does help with the heat..
I have such issues too. My plan is to reline my fuel line to the fire wall via regulator (elec. pump already in the back) and a spacer for the carb. A bypass or return line is not on my radar so far. Hope it will help. For now the preowner installed a regulator (no gauge) where the mech pump would sit and the line has much contact with the heads and so on.
Update...I will change the tank sending unit to have a return line. Its the only way to go. Lets see.
Good info to know and keep in mind, Tony. Thanks
In a trippy sort of way people 100
Years from now will watch this to see how to get an old car to run. It’s like a video encyclopedia of knowledge. Crazy to think ahead like that
Great video. I have had this problem as well being a Mopar guy with older vehicles. I changed my steel fuel line with aluminum line and problem was solved. Good time to change to 3/8 line to keep big hp engines from starvation at higher rpm's. Insulating the line going into the engine compartment all the way to the carb also helps a bunch. Also changed to an electric fuel pump so as to eliminate the heat that a mechanical pump can hold. Keep up the great video's, thank you
UT - Good video - it makes me remember something from 42 years ago...
My Dad bought a new 1980 Chevy Caprice wagon - I was 15 years old at the time. It had a 267 V8, which was a
Chevy smog engine in those days.
In '81, to prepair for a long road trip, my Dad replaced the oil and filters. (I always helped my Dad work on cars, even back then). We found that the carburator looked like a Q-Jet, but there were no secondaries in the carb - just metal over where the secondary barrels would be. It was actually just a two barrel carb. (GM probably did this to manufacture one intake manifold). They even put steel caps over the mixture adustment screws.
If I am full of whooey about this, let me know - but that's the way I remember it 42 years ago.
Anyway, during our road trip to Colorado, we drove up Pike's Peak. The car was acting like it was running out of gas while climbing the mountain. At the time, my Dad thought it was caused by the high altitude (which it was).
But after whatching this video, I think it was vapor lock.
Here is my theory : The engine was laboring to pull the car up the mountain. The air was thin so it was running lean and generating lot of heat. Since the Q-Jet style carburator didn't have secondaries, there was no air flow at the back of the fuel bowl to cool the bowl. This caused vapor lock and the car behaved like it was running out of gas.
Mystery solved ? Probably. Thanks UT.
Had problems on my 74C10 truck with a holley not starting after running and stopping. Got a phenolic spacer and it helped out a bunch.
You taught me how to fix my vapor lock. I drive a 62 impala that I’m restoring and restored 4 years ago. I would drive it in the summer and my car would shut off in the Wendy’s drive thru and everywhere in between. I thought I was running out of gas. Anyways you sir taught me how to fix mine. Routed a return line with a fuel filter that has 3rd nipple. I routed my return line to the filler neck. Drilled a hole into the filler neck then cleaned it out. Everyone else drills a hole into the gas tank, I’m too lazy I didn’t go that route. Well it’s worked well for me. I’ve been driving in 2 summers since. I live in south texas and drive my Lowrider every single day. It gets 110 degrees here sometimes. Anyways since you taught me how to fix it I’ve never had problems. Close to my manifold I covered my fuel lines with heat shield. Car has never ever stalled since. I’ve been driving long distance to car shows with the engine on for 4+ hours at a time. No vapor lock
Have a 51 Chrysler. Got vapor lock like crazy on 80-90 degree days in traffic. Replaced all steel fuel lines with Copper lines, also made a coil of it from the pump to the carb that sits near the fan for added cooling. Never had an issue again.
A thermoquad would still be a problem on intake systems that use exhaust crossovers that meter localized egr components, and hot air chokes. That’s why GM didn’t use them. It was still cooler leaving the bowl between the throttles, abs just isolate the whole thing with fat gaskets and tin plates.
I've owned three carbureted cars, and *knock on wood* I only experienced vapor lock on one of them. My first car was an 81 horizon with the Volkswagen 1.7 that was given to me and that thing would vapor lock like crazy. It ran very hot and when I'd restart it on a hot day it would only make it about 50 ft before it would die and not start up again. I occasionally got to the point where I actually would remove the fuel filter and suck fuel on through to get it to be able to pump. I never experienced vapor lock with my 79 225 Volare or my 68 318 Barracuda.
Thanks UT. I currently use a rubber fuel line wrapped with heat foil from the fuel pump to the carb. I guess I'll convert back to steel on your advice.
Ive used the 3 nipple filter suggested by UTG and also a small electric pusher pump at the fuel tank. Get rid of the mechanical pump, and reroute the fuel line to carb to the firewall. Keeps it away from exhaust maniolds altogether.
Man I love the knowledge you share on these videos!! Thank you UTG!!!
My 1973 Datsun 240Z was mostly stock when I got it. It had the dealer-installed vapor-lock update equipment on it:
- An electric pusher pump n front of the fuel tank, to pressurize the fuel line and mechanical pump on the engine.
- An upgraded mechanical fuel pump
- A heat shield between the intake and exhaust manifolds
- Aluminum coated fiberglass wrapping on the fuel lines from the mechanical pump to the 2 carburetors.
And people told me I was wasting money with an inline pump and a return style bypass regulator on a carbureted engine..."you can just deadhead it! you don't need all that junk!" HA!
I've had good luck just insulating the hard lines with hardware store foil backed pipe insulation tape, that's what the clothespins actually do, act as insulation.
The Toyota straight six 2F engine has a the carb sitting above the interlinked intake and exhaust manifold. They added a fan to blow on the carb for 10 minutes after you turn off the engine. There is also a bakelite spacer at the base of carb that is more heat resistant than aluminum.
Those early 4.0 jeeps with returnless fuel systems had a tsb back in the day where we would put a heat shield under the rail to protect it from exhaust heat to help with vapor lock/bucking and stalling
I ran into the heat soak/vapor lock issue with my 4L in my jeep off roading on hot summer days. my fix was hood louvers, and it fixed the problem 100% BUT some aftermarket off road companies sell a foil back shaped insulation to go over the fuel rail to help keep the fuel cool.
Thank you. Great teacher. I'm learning, and will pass on. To my son. Have a great summer.
My 81 gmc Caballero started vapor locking on me this weekend so i got a ducting tube from O'Reilly's ran it from in front of the radiator to the carburetor to feed it cool fresh air and it started running so much better and vapor lock stopped. Im running a 305 with a 2 barrel Rochester.
I had a couple of Ford Trucks that had clothes pins on the gas line to deal with vapor lock. I think I had 2 or 3 wood clothes pins on the 1965 Ford F-100 with the 240 inline six, then I remember having a 1970 something Ford that had something like 8 wood clothes pin's on the fuel line to deal with vapor lock. One of the trucks I put a flex fan on to help cool the engine, which I think was the 1965 Ford F-100 and think the 1972 I had to put a fan shroud on to stop that one from vapor locking or over heating after I replaced the radiator. I am thinking it was the 1977 Ford F350 with the 360 V8 that had 8 wood clothes pins on to stop the vapor locking. But every Ford V8 engine I ever saw, had the fuel line come up from the fuel pump and snake under the alternator and between the water pump up to the carberator. That is until Ford went to fuel injection, then it came in behind the engine block to the fuel rails on the intake. Had an uncle on my dad's side, that drove an old Dodge truck with a slant 6 in it that had aluminum foil wrapped all over the intake to stop the vapor locking. You have not seen stupid locking until you have seen a slant 6 intake covered in aluminum foil.
I know I sound like a broken record, but Seafoam will help deter the effects of E10 fuel, including vapor lock to a point. At least there won't be the alcohol separation. Try it.
Best thing I did to fix vapor lock problems on my charger was to put an electric fuel pump near the tank. No more vapor locking anymore. Completely fixed my issues.
EEEEEK! A thermo- turd! Where's my wooden stakes and silver bullet's. Don't think I ever came across one that didn't have a warped body.😆
Also for Jeeps there's a company or two that sell heat shields and insulation jackets for the fuel rail. They seem to help.
I heard a story from an old mechanic about an 1960’s Pontiac V8 that kept vapor locking during the summer and the story was that he cut a grapefruit in half and jammed it onto the mechanical fuel pump in a way that it wedged so it wouldn’t fall off and it insulated the fuel pump from the engine and exhaust heat and thus prevented the fuel from boiling
Vapor lock helped to keep Auto zone (was Auto Shack) in business for years. From people not knowing what it was and just firing the old parts cannon at their engines and cars.. 😂 until someone that did know walks up and said "well there's yer problem right there Vern."
I had a 59 Chevy apache that would vapor lock and close pins on the fuel line between the pump and carb fixed it. This was back in the early 80s in Dallas
A Phenolic Birchwood spacer and a metal fuel filter placed up off of the intake works virtually every time. Yes, you can absolutely make your own, gasket each side and run it.
I had a thermostat go bad and ran 220-225 all the way across the county coming home from a car show, in the Texas heat, with a 10.75/1 motor that likes to get hot, ping and vapor lock on anything under 100 octane. Never vapor locked. Never pinged. Even on 93. Before the birchwood spacer she was always looking to flash the fuel over to vapor, turn to pop-poo and lock down. Not anymore. She just runs. 😎
My new favorite channel. And all necause I experienced Vapor Lock for the first time this past 4th of July.
Good stuff. I got bit by a vaporlock issue on a dead headed system decades back and had I known it back then, I would have dropped the tank and installed a sending unit with a return line fitting before ever going cross country. For some reason, it never was an issue around town - took about two hours of driving to show up in most cases, depending on ambient. Guess it was because I wasn't using gas fast enough going steady state down the highway to cool the system!
Sounds like gas tank vent problem to me.
@@shellylozano1052 Not possible: Gas cap was always on the loose side. Even a small vacuum of 0.2" wc was out of the question.
At last, something in common with a UTG segment. My 1979 Ford F100 with 351M would vapor lock. Wooden clothes pins on the fuel line worked.
I used a fuel filter with the 3 nipples on my carbureted 83 5.0 Mustang and even on 100+ degree days driving in heavy traffic I never had a vapor lock in the 15 years I owned it.
These are great tips. I live in hot central Florida and get periodic vapor lock in my Paxton supercharged built 302. I will look at adding some of these ideas. THANKS TONY!!! June 29, 2023.
Carb spacer and a pint of kerosene, that worked best for me after the fuel changes from the 90s until 2015 when I had my 400 Ltd. Never had any issues.
Blocking off the heat riser passages when possible helps big time. Completely filling them is even better.
Can’t tell you how much I enjoyed this video. Very new to working on a ‘78 Ford 400 and this helped me understand a lot about these two issues. Already subscribed, thanks a ton Sir.
One thing to note is as pressure increases more energy is required to turn a liquid to a gas. Thats why a lot of older efi systems and especially carbs are susceptible to vapor lock. An old school efi such as that 4L runs somewhere around 40 psi max. Mopar tbi was around 15 psi but is a return style.
Modern mopars and the like are dead headed fuel systems but are around 60 psi.
Main thing to do is isolate from heat and keep fuel moving. Only times my old rides have vapor lock is if it sits for 30 min after driving it will boil and cause a longer crank. No big deal for me.
Very good info as usual 👍
I was watching an old Master Tech video. They recommended that all high performance cars have a fuel pressure regulator installed. The Chrysler part #2240633. I am a GM guy and have never seen/heard of this before! Have you personally have any experience with this part?
Back in 77we had a 350 camaro balanced and blue printed we went to see blue oyster cult it was hot it vapor locked we didn't know we were 18 went to a station put it on a sunken diagnostics system ended up the metal fuel line was to close to the radiator hose problem solved that mnfer ran 7300 rpm with a 538 gear burn out heaven
I delivered pizza with a 1999 cherokee for years running a 50/50 mix of e85 petro gas. It lowered the temperature of my engine from what I saw on the gauage.But if you want to run a vapor line back on a cherokee it might be possible if you got a 1996 or older tank and line set up I'm pretty sure they had a return line.
This man is a genius! Great guy too!!
I have a TBI Cadillac. TBI systems work on a max fuel pressure of 12 lbs. most run between 8-10. My caddy will hold its 9.5 lbs for about a half an hour. With the Reid Vapor Pressure EPA standards that have now been completely eliminated and, the introduction of over 15% of ethanol used ALL YEAR ROUND, I have a problem with any carbureted and fuel injected cars made before 2002. My 89 caddy, and my wife’s 99 accord all have vapor lock if the motor is allowed to sit hot for between 20-40 minutes. There’s enough heat soak to cause them both to have a 2 foot gas chamber within the fuel feed line.
Finally! Some solid tips on fixin yo ride, clothespin I knew it ,if I kept watching this channel I would finally get some real solid advice, perseverance paid off lol
Yes your correct. Thank You Tony. 👍
Hey UTC! question? in performance cars and modern fuel injection, air is fed through a plenum and duct from a location like a fender or headlight. how come so many folks run carbureted cars with an open filter right on top of the hot engine and behind a radiator that blows hot air. even in a factory format, most air cleaners have a snorkel that faces towards the fenders or something to attempt to pull colder air. my question is: what is better? a fully open air cleaner on top of the engine or a air duct system that allows colder air in?
Tony..you nailed it man and great job as a small scale carb. rebuilder I have said the same to guys that i do carbs with man as far as the heat/gas goes for the regular guy/no money here in east tn. the blame the carb. usually the quad or edelbrock are the worse,even with a insulater block,holley...not as bad....but the gas is the culprit..if you dig end why the thermoquad was designed after the quad was due to the gas and g.m. had pull back then to get the gas companys to put whatever it was in the gas to make it not to that...unlike today...beleive me doing carbs for people just dont understand what you stated and you nailed it man.....I tell people to at least run a air gap intake....the plastic/wood insulators sometimes work...but depending on the carb.....you are spot on.
Same problem with my slant six Volare, which would stall after running for a bit then restart when it sat for a few minutes. The heat riser was stuck open roasting the carburetor. I wired it shut while trying to find a replacement which of course makes it cold-blooded while it warms up.
That was very interesting and the presentation was excellent !
I suspect the reason the recirculating fuel filter works so well is because the constant flow of fuel over the pump is enough to keep it cool.
You are my go to man with any regards I have with my 73 440 roadrunner, and as I live in Australia, good advice isn’t available here. If u were my neighbor 🤔………….. ude be sick of the sight of me 😂😂😂😂. 🙌🙌🙌. Keep up the great work UT. Regards, Dave Australia.
If you want real cold gas then you could wrap a coil of fuel line around the AC suction line and insulate it. It will be almost freezing.
Uncle Tony
in the 1970’s my mum sold a cleaning product here in australia called “Swipe” it was a copy of “Amway” and i swear that bottle on your left with the red cap looks like an old swipe/Amway dishwashing detergent bottle……!!!
Surely not - couldn’t last that long….??!!
I have a 1980 GMC 1 ton pickup with a 454 big block that I use to harvest and haul cord wood. If the outdoor temperature is 75 degrees or over, it will vapor lock EVERY DAMN TIME !! When I pull over and lift the hood, I can hear the gasoline boiling in the carburetor. It's annoying as hell. The good thing is I'm only cutting 6 or 7 chords per summer so I don't have too many trips and I try to cut on cool days. Oh, and it is at high altitude, over 5k feet. I found that If I let it sit for about 5 minutes, then pour a little gas down the carb, it will start.
My big block chevy truck had vapor lock too, every time I drove it, it would shut down... I tried everything to fix it and believe it or not getting the vacuum advance hooked up and dialed in is what finally fixed it. Good luck.