@@smugron1101 hi im new to warhammer, got myself into thousand sons. A quick question, is the daemon prince of tzeentch the same the the normal daemon prince? because i cant seem to find any info about the one shown in the video. thanks
@@ryankong51 It is. It can cast 1 more Psychic Power per turn and its Winged version (which is the version you wanna take) is cheaper than the Winged version of daemon princes from diffrent Gods cause the Tzeentch Daemon Prince (without any gear) already is more expensive than all the other ones points-wise. It is one of the best units for your army. I recommend you take double Talons, Wings and Otherwordly Presence/Undying Form if you make him your Warlord. If you just use him as an HQ, same thing tbh (Also, just incase you don't know, HQ's can't take Warlord traits. You can only have one Warlord in your army.) . For Psychic Powers, I recommend Death Hex and Gaze of Fate. But you can take whatever you want really.
Smugron sweet, guess I'll take the daemon Prince first before getting my second maulerfiend. Thank you very much, now I'm starting to have more idea on how to build a proper 1k point army
The 2+ saving throw on Rubrics makes them quite durable, and with AP -2 and -3 their firepower is more effective than people expect. Rubrics are great.
I agree. Even further, because "All is dust" affects their Invuln Save aswell (Luke missed that one). So they get 4++ against 1D Weapons, wich is amazing and can be pushed by using a Strat or a psychic Power for a 3++. These tactics used on a big Unit makes them really a consideration! Also because in the new Ed. it's more about get to a point and holding it till your next turn. So your Objective-holding Units need to be more resilient than they had to be in 8th.
My opponents fear rubrics now because I ran 40 of them and stopped our local meta with it for months, and they are scary with vets of the long war as they mulch space marines.
To be clear on "stacking" Gaze of Fate. No dice can be rerolled more than once. But on, say, an armor save where you have two separate failures you could Command Reroll one and Gaze of Fate the other.
Rubrics are great indeed! I get to fight them quite often and have a great deal of respect for their firepower and durability. And hey, a unit of 10 is quite fluffy :D. 1 and 9. 1 Sorcerer to lead and 9 Rubrics to follow. All is as planned! :p.
Vets + double shoot on rubrics or terminators is extremely dangerous to anything below T8. A 10 man rubric squad with reroll 1s will on average take 9.6 wounds off a T7 3+ tank. If they have prescience they'll kill the average T7 3+ 10 wound tank 80% of the time; the 10 man terminator will kill two tanks no problem, especially if they have missile racks too. People don't expect it, because they think they're just bolters, so they'll often be sloppy with positioning and give you a chance to take something out. 2CP isn't cheap, but blowing up a tank or two your opponent didn't think was vulnerable can often win you a game.
Maulerfiend costs as much as a Defiler with scourge and reaper autocannon. Maulerfiend gets +2" move and +3 secondary attacks, but Defiler gets +2 wounds, +4 str on primary attacks and d6 damage, +6 str on secondary attacks, a battlecannon shooting d6 str 8 ap-2 Dd6 with Blast and the reaper autocannon attacks. It's not even close how much better the Defiler is.
Glad that the Tzangors/cultists are ignored here, never really liked them, and it didn't fit the theme of the army in my opinion. I run mostly Rubric (Termies are really nice as well, 5 get your 40 shots, before other upgrades) Been hunting for some Necrosphinxs' for a while now to use as my Maulers, didn't think to use it as a daemon prince (I had one already, so I've just been using the normal sculpt. Had been running the little scout titans before 9th kinda screwed that up, so this may be something I have to re-double my efforts to find. Been theming my Sons more after their HH colors (Red/gold), my logic is that I can run them as Blood Ravens if I wanted. Still need to see how the points have changed for FW, but there were a few units there I ran for fun, Hellforged Deathclaw Drop-pod (Surprise! FLAMERS!) giant chaos spawn, and sometimes a HF Scarian tank (sp), kinda depended on how silly I was being (Given Hellforged do more damage to psykers when they blow, most of my opponents laugh and dont have issues with me playing them)
As a fellow Thousand Sons player, the Horus Heresy scheme is actually God tier. Especially the contrast. Starting with Retributor Armor, based. Then Blood Angels Red contrast. Then cover the red with 'Ardcoat. It brings out the shine. Then clean up and boom Sons of Magnus.
Nice video Luke. This video is helpful for people that want to create a new force or bolster an existing force, so works well as almost a getting started and tactica video.
I can't remember the cult now but you can have one to redeploy at start of game. Take that, 20 man rubric squad. 1cp to deploy 9 inches from enemy deployment zone. If you get first turn then advance another psyker on disk to give them prescience and glamour and weaver etc. First turn spend a cp to double rapid fire with veterans. You'll wreck anything you shoot at
I think it's funny that you can build a Thousand Sons army without any Space Marines. Technically you can do the same with any Chaos Space Marines legion, but Thousand Sons have the easiest time of it because of Tzaangors.
Thanks for the list! I am new to the hobby and the thousand sons are my first army. I was curious is Mutalith Vortex Beast any good? the model looks awesome.
Hey man. Thanks anlot for your video. Could you please give me an advice, I'm starting ts army. For 1000pts I have Ahriman, exalted sorcerer, 4 small rubric marines units, 20 tzaangors and unit of scarab occult terminators. What do you think about this 1000pts roster and how to grow for bigger games?
Definetly a tzaangors shaman If your going to run tzaangors. Maybe look at a 3-6 man exalted on disk with bows, Daemon prince is never a bad investment. After that mauler friends and a vortex beast for flavor..
I like these kind of videos from you, but they are very “visually challenged” to put it one way. I’d suggest putting a close up visual of the unit model you’re talking about on one side of the screen and an edited view of the rules you’re discussing on the other.
My top 5 is: 1. Ahriman 2. Daemon Prince (Preferringly a Winged one) 3. Rubric Marines 4. Magnus 5. Vortex Beast Ahriman is pretty obvious. Best psycher in the army right after our big red man. But he is more cost efficent so he is much more common. Winged Daemon Prince is pretty good because it is very mobile,it is a beast in melee (which Thousand Sons arent really known to be really good at) and it being very hard to take off the table also makes it a very good choice. Rubric Marine's are very powerful. They have a lot of quite good weapons but All is Dust makes them very good. Magnus is also pretty obvious. If you have enough money and enough points,go for him. He is the best Thousand Sons unit,even after a few nerfs,he is still a powerhouse. Being able to manifest and deny 3 powers while being very strong in melee and hard to take down just like a daemon prince is definitely worth it. Finally,the Vortex Beast. This thing is a bane to any faction that is bad at melee or has a lot of units. Now,yes so is Magnus and the Daemon Prince but Magnus isnt as cost efficent and you shouldnt be risking your hq's. This is the best melee unit you can add to your army when it comes to how effective it is in general. It is more durable than the daemon prince,almost as strong in melee,has more wounds,can attack more times (unless the daemon prince has 2 claws) and it can also "explode" when slain.
As someone who is just getting into the gameplay, I'm mostly interested in the combat patrol games for now (500p/25power max) and I have a couple ideas for my list Exalted sorc as hq 20 tzangoors with a horn and an icon Tzan shaman to help buff Either 5 rubrics with an icon, or 10 pink horrors for some ranged ability and another spell Depending on remaining points in choices, can add a chaos spawn in for shits and giggles Thoughts? Anyway to change it up? Don't have warlord traits, relics, or anything like that planned out yet, and this will be my first time playing outside of killteam 😅🤘
It looks good. Unfortunately you cannot field Horrors or other Tzeentch daemons in a Thousand Sons detachment, as they don't have the "Thousand Sons" faction keyword. I know it's confusing, since they are in the Codex for some reason, but you can leave them out of the army and then use a character to summon them. I personally don't like Tzaangors so much, I think they die a little too quickly for their cost, but you can try them and see how it goes.
They only have 5 kits lol. Ahriman, Sorcerers, Terminators, Marines and Magnus. All the rest are fantasy daemons or CSM kits they've used to fill the army out ;) All joking aside, great video and ideas for people looking to collect!
Its really sad tbh, if you compare then to DG who got their own entire model range and line for every unit choice and type, thousand sons seems like the freak guinea pigs to test 7.5 edition out on, they have no weapon choices, all weapons on the model are what you get, so bolters and...thats its, its especially bad right now in 9th with all their flashy stuff from 8th being removed and yet them still being bumped up in price despite having things taken away from them : /
I played a 3 way battle last night 1000pts each against new indomitus Space Marines and Necrons and took mine from the CULT OF TIME.... I ended up winning (quite convincingly in the end) and my winning units were x4 5man Rubric Marines to hold on objectives and using the new power to bring back models to a unit.... DP with Talons was also not to be messed with.... Love watching your videos and get alot of good ideas for my army wise from your lists. Keep it up.
Defilers are really good. Especially with move and shoot now in 9th. You can do daemon forge for rerolls. Give flickering flames from a daemon prince for plus 1 to wound and prescience for plus 1 to hit. Makes their shooting absolutely nuts then charge into combat and wreck
Good tier list. I'd personally go with (from first to last) Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Terminator Sorceror with familiar, Scarab Occult Terminators, and finally either rubrics or the exalted sorcerors. The +1 to your first cast with terminator sorcs makes getting your 7+ powers off WAY more reliable and their shooting power means they are more effective at ranged than exalted. Since ahriman and princes have the reroll aura and you should have ahriman at minimum, losing out on that isn't a big deal I've found.With traits and relics you can get +3 to the first cast on one of them or +2 with two (my preferred option) and giving them the critical 6/7 cost powers. The bonus also matters more with smite no longer staying at WC:5 :(
Good list. I do want to bring attention to a overlooked model here. Not sure if its because it is a forgeworld or not, but the hellforged predator is fantastic. I like to run it with all the flamers and the infernal flamestorm cannon. I run two with cult of duplicity and drop them 9 inches on turn one. That is 2d6 s5 -2 and 2d6 s5 -1 per predator auto hitting on turn one. They absolutely melt infantry, which is very important in 9th for that board control. Also these are heavy flamers so if im not mistaken you can fire these in engagement range. The enemy will have to deal with these asap and you can use that time to take control of the board. I cannot recommend these enough, simply fantastic and all for roughly 165 points.
How are you getting an 8" weapon in range turn 1? With Duplicity spell is still 9"+ away. Unless your opponent forward deploys and you warptime them forward.
I prefer the Daemon Prince with the Axe. It does get -1 to hit (which now in 9th ed is ok especially if you face units that can also give -1 to hit as it is capped at -1). The prince gets a to-hit reroll, so hitting on a 3+ with reroll is fine. The base damage is 3 which means you often only need to get 2 wounds through to drop most medium characters. Add Daemonic strength power, means he is wounding any vehicle on a 3+. I am also tempted to try a unit of 10 rubrics all with warp flamers in a rhino. That is 10-60 hits at AP-2 maybe add the heavy war flamer for more fun. A good unit to use as a screen after their rhino dies and the obvious choice for overwatch. Now that monsters and vehicles can shoot in combat and do not suffer move and shoot penalty the Defiler is looking really good. The Maulerfiend is ok, but the shooty forgefiend should be more useful overall. He still gets 8 shots in melee. I also think a 1000 sons list is not complete without a Mutalith Vortex Beast. I would take one Mutalith, 1 Defiler and 1 Forgefiend as my heavies. Agree that exalted are amazing for their points. I love Magnus but he is very expensive and needs some kind of wound limit per phase like GW gave to Ghaz.
Hi Scorpion, what are your thoughts on (1) Tzaangor, (2) Tzaangor Enlightened, and (3) FW Dreadnoughts: are any of these still worth taking in a TS army? Otherwise, thank you for this very informative video!
I'm not Scorpian, but I can take a stab at it if you like. Personally I dropped tzangors not to long ago. With the points increase at chapter approved and exclusion from the Hateful Assault rule even though they are Heretic Astartes they just flopped against other pur melee options. Now another points increase and still no bonus in combat. If you really want melee i would suggest running a separate detachment of daemons and take furys or bloodleters, probably bloodleters. As for enlightened theh have always been niesh for me. They are fast and resilient, which is good, but with the limit of 1 to modifiers you cannot auto wound on 4s any more. I still like enlightened and will likley bust them out from time to time, but not as much.
Now by FW Dreadnoughts I assume you mean hellforged. I only have experience running Contemptors, but I really like them. From what I can remember only going up maybe 20ish points. A bit of a hit, but they are still nice i think. I like them with soulburners as its basically a super smite per shooting phase. I know most people run butchers, but with -2 on bolters I don't feel 1ksons needs that much help against infantry. Granted I'm not an expert on these things so take that with a grain.
Wonder how the shooty fiends will do in in 9E with the changes. I'm thinking about getting back into 40k with 9th and I did have enough TS stuff for about 1k points worth before shelving 8th ed.
Hey Luke, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I would want to add, that "All is Dust" also affects the Units invuln. So you'd have Rubrics and Scarabs get a 2+, 4++ against D1 Weapons and with the Strat or the Power they could get even a 2+, 3++! :) should keep them quite safe. Good Luck with your TS in upcoming battles! *If I'm right, rulewise your Scarabs and Rubrics could get even a 2++ Invuln if you use the Power "Weaver of Fate" and the Strat "Indomitable Foes" on them. These cap the invuln to a 3++ and your "All is dust" improves it further to a 2++ against D1. Sick. And maybe not, what GW intended...
Once we get 2 wound Rubrics and 3 wound Scarab Occults, our Weaver of Fates and Glamour of Tzeentch combo is even better, and Veterans of the Long War is a chad combo already, and plus one to armor save against wounds from damage one weapons.
The only thing i would include is for the Rubric Marine Squad size. They can be very devasting if you go for 20 and than throw them right into the enemys face with the Dark Matter Crystal relic in turn 1. Its even better if 9 of them hold a warpflamer since they all got 12 " range.
Duplicity should actually be really good in the new Ed! Their Power lets you "jump" your slow Units like Rubrics and Scarabs around the board where they have to be. holding/defending objectives, do rituals and so on...With this Cult paired with Dark matter Christal, you almost never need to worry about your Range. And you threaten the opposing Deployment-Zone aswell. Your Opponent needs to play around the fact that you can land where it hurts the most. This is no joke!
And unless I missed a faq the duplicitous tactician trait does not limit the unit as long as it is in the cult. That means mauler fiends, a transport full of RM with flamers, hellforged predators with many many flamers. All need to get across the board, now turn one. Best cult in my opinion.
@@jackobanter4031 good point. As it stands 9th seems to be an Edition, where you need to play the mission rather than to wipe the opponent off the Board. It'll be not so much about kills but about boardcontrol. Therefore I would rate durable units quite highly. Just because you have to stay in a certain place through your opponents Turn in order to get victorypoints. A Transport packed with RM should be really nice for this job. The enemy has to shoot the Tank and still needs to shoot the unit inside. Tough task. I even like Tzeentch Deamons in this Ed. For their sweet 4++ :).
@@davids.3861 i could imagine creating a detachment from another cult like time could be an interesting option. at least for 2000p games. a patrol detachment from time cult for would be rather though to get rid off. 2 cp aint the expensive for the cult psychic power on a chunk of models. the cult of duplicity controll the board in turn 1-2, and the Time cult for duability.
As a new Thousand Sons player building his army, I'm quite torn between the traditional blue and gold armor (like my kill team) or painting white armor. Regarding your list, I completely agree based on what I've seen from other games, not to mention that these units have been solid foundations for a strong TS army in 8th edition as well. Based on what I've experienced playing 500-750 pts of 9th edition (all be it playing tau), bringing transports have become game changers in this edition. My current question for you is do you think TS players should start looking towards bringing Rhinos to the table, and what do you think will work best for an army that tends to avoid heavy armor in an edition that favors vehicles?
I was really thinking about starting with thousandsuns they are really cool. I love them just like death guard. I really hope they do a couple more chaos legions like they did with those 2.
hi im new to warhammer, got myself into thousand sons. A quick question, is the daemon prince of tzeentch the same the the normal daemon prince? because i cant seem to find any info about the one shown in the video. thanks
Maulerfiends are a bit of a feast or famine unit, their output is pretty impressive, but that is kind of known, so your opponent will rarely let them get into their happy place without a bit of babysitting. Although using warptime to give it 20" movement on the first turn to get it in your opponents grill. Hardest part is justifying its points to alternative choices (namely helbrute defiler and predators
What about Scarabs Occult Terminators ? I think they were the best unit in late 8th with teleport or heal abilities from a Cult. I tested them once by 10 and they were absolute killers, they made the game, they finished intact (just 1 woundl).
I run them as Time with a Terminator Sorcerer loaded with High Magister and a familiar for +2 on that power. Plus you can put them at a 3++ save. I agree that they are insane and with the shoot twice stratagem they can out out the hurt. Unfortunately it is also one heck of a points investment. 1 unit of ten is 1/5 of a strike force army. It worked for me in 8th and could still work in 9th, but idk about top 5.
So im kind of confused with the cults. So taking one means that every psychic unit gets a new spell, but as far as im aware each spell can only be cast once per psychic phase so only one unit could actually use it once per turn, is that correct? For instance if i play cult of time could I use the spell with multiple units to bring modles back or just the one?
But any of your psykers can cast it, without having to sacrifice any of their other powers. That's particularly useful because it includes the Sorcerers in Rubric and Terminator units, who otherwise only have access to a nerfed Smite and one power from one discipline which is usually either bad or redundant because your actual psykers took the good ones. So while you don't get to spam the power, you do get to deploy it almost anywhere on the battlefield, usually without repositioning or reducing the efficacy of your characters.
@@ProjectThunderclaw yeh yeh i just find it kinda strange, like other armys got psychic awakenings that can buff the entire army were as we get a spell that can be cast once 😅 like i get that spaming it would be op but I think itd make sense if you can cast it up to 3 times or somthing. But hay ho
what units are actually needed
1.Ahriman
2.Ahriman
3.Ahriman
4.Ahriman
5.Ahriman
No no,its:
1. Ahriman
2. Ahriman
3. Ahriman
4. Ahriman
5. Winged Daemon Prince
Don't forget Ahriman
@@smugron1101 hi im new to warhammer, got myself into thousand sons. A quick question, is the daemon prince of tzeentch the same the the normal daemon prince? because i cant seem to find any info about the one shown in the video. thanks
@@ryankong51 It is. It can cast 1 more Psychic Power per turn and its Winged version (which is the version you wanna take) is cheaper than the Winged version of daemon princes from diffrent Gods cause the Tzeentch Daemon Prince (without any gear) already is more expensive than all the other ones points-wise. It is one of the best units for your army. I recommend you take double Talons, Wings and Otherwordly Presence/Undying Form if you make him your Warlord. If you just use him as an HQ, same thing tbh (Also, just incase you don't know, HQ's can't take Warlord traits. You can only have one Warlord in your army.) . For Psychic Powers, I recommend Death Hex and Gaze of Fate. But you can take whatever you want really.
Smugron sweet, guess I'll take the daemon Prince first before getting my second maulerfiend. Thank you very much, now I'm starting to have more idea on how to build a proper 1k point army
The 2+ saving throw on Rubrics makes them quite durable, and with AP -2 and -3 their firepower is more effective than people expect. Rubrics are great.
I agree. Even further, because "All is dust" affects their Invuln Save aswell (Luke missed that one). So they get 4++ against 1D Weapons, wich is amazing and can be pushed by using a Strat or a psychic Power for a 3++. These tactics used on a big Unit makes them really a consideration! Also because in the new Ed. it's more about get to a point and holding it till your next turn. So your Objective-holding Units need to be more resilient than they had to be in 8th.
My opponents fear rubrics now because I ran 40 of them and stopped our local meta with it for months, and they are scary with vets of the long war as they mulch space marines.
@@theredsorcerer7764 you must have been pretty Happy with "Ritual of the Damned". They got a nice boost there. At last.
Aren't they 3+ saves?
@@johnathankonandreas6074 "All ist Dust" makes it 2+ but only against 1D attacks.
As a burgeoning thousand sons player this will help alot...Thanks
To be clear on "stacking" Gaze of Fate.
No dice can be rerolled more than once. But on, say, an armor save where you have two separate failures you could Command Reroll one and Gaze of Fate the other.
Thank you
Rubrics are great indeed! I get to fight them quite often and have a great deal of respect for their firepower and durability. And hey, a unit of 10 is quite fluffy :D. 1 and 9. 1 Sorcerer to lead and 9 Rubrics to follow. All is as planned! :p.
Vets + double shoot on rubrics or terminators is extremely dangerous to anything below T8. A 10 man rubric squad with reroll 1s will on average take 9.6 wounds off a T7 3+ tank. If they have prescience they'll kill the average T7 3+ 10 wound tank 80% of the time; the 10 man terminator will kill two tanks no problem, especially if they have missile racks too. People don't expect it, because they think they're just bolters, so they'll often be sloppy with positioning and give you a chance to take something out. 2CP isn't cheap, but blowing up a tank or two your opponent didn't think was vulnerable can often win you a game.
Maulerfiend costs as much as a Defiler with scourge and reaper autocannon. Maulerfiend gets +2" move and +3 secondary attacks, but Defiler gets +2 wounds, +4 str on primary attacks and d6 damage, +6 str on secondary attacks, a battlecannon shooting d6 str 8 ap-2 Dd6 with Blast and the reaper autocannon attacks.
It's not even close how much better the Defiler is.
Glad that the Tzangors/cultists are ignored here, never really liked them, and it didn't fit the theme of the army in my opinion. I run mostly Rubric (Termies are really nice as well, 5 get your 40 shots, before other upgrades)
Been hunting for some Necrosphinxs' for a while now to use as my Maulers, didn't think to use it as a daemon prince (I had one already, so I've just been using the normal sculpt. Had been running the little scout titans before 9th kinda screwed that up, so this may be something I have to re-double my efforts to find.
Been theming my Sons more after their HH colors (Red/gold), my logic is that I can run them as Blood Ravens if I wanted.
Still need to see how the points have changed for FW, but there were a few units there I ran for fun, Hellforged Deathclaw Drop-pod (Surprise! FLAMERS!) giant chaos spawn, and sometimes a HF Scarian tank (sp), kinda depended on how silly I was being (Given Hellforged do more damage to psykers when they blow, most of my opponents laugh and dont have issues with me playing them)
I use the Mindstelaer Sphiranx Model as a Deamon Prince. They could be a little too small for Deamonengines but maybe you could have a look.
As a fellow Thousand Sons player, the Horus Heresy scheme is actually God tier. Especially the contrast. Starting with Retributor Armor, based. Then Blood Angels Red contrast. Then cover the red with 'Ardcoat. It brings out the shine. Then clean up and boom Sons of Magnus.
Tzaangors have been in the army list and or fluff for over 20 years. Since the Lost and the Damned book
Nice video Luke. This video is helpful for people that want to create a new force or bolster an existing force, so works well as almost a getting started and tactica video.
This is perfect, just creating my thousand son army will have to watch this later.
Me too bud, super excited by their psychic abilities!
@@jacdimond yeah ive gotna few armies. And physker is one i havent got.
I can't remember the cult now but you can have one to redeploy at start of game. Take that, 20 man rubric squad. 1cp to deploy 9 inches from enemy deployment zone. If you get first turn then advance another psyker on disk to give them prescience and glamour and weaver etc. First turn spend a cp to double rapid fire with veterans. You'll wreck anything you shoot at
If opponent steals then redeploy behind obscuring terrain
I think it's funny that you can build a Thousand Sons army without any Space Marines. Technically you can do the same with any Chaos Space Marines legion, but Thousand Sons have the easiest time of it because of Tzaangors.
Thanks for the list! I am new to the hobby and the thousand sons are my first army. I was curious is Mutalith Vortex Beast any good? the model looks awesome.
Hey man. Thanks anlot for your video. Could you please give me an advice, I'm starting ts army. For 1000pts I have Ahriman, exalted sorcerer, 4 small rubric marines units, 20 tzaangors and unit of scarab occult terminators. What do you think about this 1000pts roster and how to grow for bigger games?
Definetly a tzaangors shaman If your going to run tzaangors. Maybe look at a 3-6 man exalted on disk with bows, Daemon prince is never a bad investment. After that mauler friends and a vortex beast for flavor..
I like these kind of videos from you, but they are very “visually challenged” to put it one way. I’d suggest putting a close up visual of the unit model you’re talking about on one side of the screen and an edited view of the rules you’re discussing on the other.
My top 5 is:
1. Ahriman
2. Daemon Prince (Preferringly a Winged one)
3. Rubric Marines
4. Magnus
5. Vortex Beast
Ahriman is pretty obvious. Best psycher in the army right after our big red man. But he is more cost efficent so he is much more common. Winged Daemon Prince is pretty good because it is very mobile,it is a beast in melee (which Thousand Sons arent really known to be really good at) and it being very hard to take off the table also makes it a very good choice. Rubric Marine's are very powerful. They have a lot of quite good weapons but All is Dust makes them very good. Magnus is also pretty obvious. If you have enough money and enough points,go for him. He is the best Thousand Sons unit,even after a few nerfs,he is still a powerhouse. Being able to manifest and deny 3 powers while being very strong in melee and hard to take down just like a daemon prince is definitely worth it. Finally,the Vortex Beast. This thing is a bane to any faction that is bad at melee or has a lot of units. Now,yes so is Magnus and the Daemon Prince but Magnus isnt as cost efficent and you shouldnt be risking your hq's. This is the best melee unit you can add to your army when it comes to how effective it is in general. It is more durable than the daemon prince,almost as strong in melee,has more wounds,can attack more times (unless the daemon prince has 2 claws) and it can also "explode" when slain.
As someone who is just getting into the gameplay, I'm mostly interested in the combat patrol games for now (500p/25power max) and I have a couple ideas for my list
Exalted sorc as hq
20 tzangoors with a horn and an icon
Tzan shaman to help buff
Either 5 rubrics with an icon, or 10 pink horrors for some ranged ability and another spell
Depending on remaining points in choices, can add a chaos spawn in for shits and giggles
Thoughts? Anyway to change it up? Don't have warlord traits, relics, or anything like that planned out yet, and this will be my first time playing outside of killteam 😅🤘
It looks good.
Unfortunately you cannot field Horrors or other Tzeentch daemons in a Thousand Sons detachment, as they don't have the "Thousand Sons" faction keyword. I know it's confusing, since they are in the Codex for some reason, but you can leave them out of the army and then use a character to summon them.
I personally don't like Tzaangors so much, I think they die a little too quickly for their cost, but you can try them and see how it goes.
@@WarHatter7242 oh damn I didn't realise that, I was leaning more towards the rubrics anyway for the icon of flame so it's all good, thanks though!
They only have 5 kits lol. Ahriman, Sorcerers, Terminators, Marines and Magnus. All the rest are fantasy daemons or CSM kits they've used to fill the army out ;) All joking aside, great video and ideas for people looking to collect!
Its really sad tbh, if you compare then to DG who got their own entire model range and line for every unit choice and type, thousand sons seems like the freak guinea pigs to test 7.5 edition out on, they have no weapon choices, all weapons on the model are what you get, so bolters and...thats its, its especially bad right now in 9th with all their flashy stuff from 8th being removed and yet them still being bumped up in price despite having things taken away from them : /
Tzangors should not be underestimated. Especially shaman plus exalted with bows.
very cool choice of daemon prince.
I played a 3 way battle last night 1000pts each against new indomitus Space Marines and Necrons and took mine from the CULT OF TIME.... I ended up winning (quite convincingly in the end) and my winning units were x4 5man Rubric Marines to hold on objectives and using the new power to bring back models to a unit.... DP with Talons was also not to be messed with....
Love watching your videos and get alot of good ideas for my army wise from your lists. Keep it up.
Defilers are really good. Especially with move and shoot now in 9th. You can do daemon forge for rerolls. Give flickering flames from a daemon prince for plus 1 to wound and prescience for plus 1 to hit. Makes their shooting absolutely nuts then charge into combat and wreck
Good units, but ugly as hell and need and remodel update for sure
Good tier list.
I'd personally go with (from first to last) Ahriman, Daemon Prince, Terminator Sorceror with familiar, Scarab Occult Terminators, and finally either rubrics or the exalted sorcerors.
The +1 to your first cast with terminator sorcs makes getting your 7+ powers off WAY more reliable and their shooting power means they are more effective at ranged than exalted. Since ahriman and princes have the reroll aura and you should have ahriman at minimum, losing out on that isn't a big deal I've found.With traits and relics you can get +3 to the first cast on one of them or +2 with two (my preferred option) and giving them the critical 6/7 cost powers. The bonus also matters more with smite no longer staying at WC:5 :(
Good list. I do want to bring attention to a overlooked model here. Not sure if its because it is a forgeworld or not, but the hellforged predator is fantastic. I like to run it with all the flamers and the infernal flamestorm cannon.
I run two with cult of duplicity and drop them 9 inches on turn one. That is 2d6 s5 -2 and 2d6 s5 -1 per predator auto hitting on turn one.
They absolutely melt infantry, which is very important in 9th for that board control. Also these are heavy flamers so if im not mistaken you can fire these in engagement range.
The enemy will have to deal with these asap and you can use that time to take control of the board.
I cannot recommend these enough, simply fantastic and all for roughly 165 points.
How are you getting an 8" weapon in range turn 1? With Duplicity spell is still 9"+ away. Unless your opponent forward deploys and you warptime them forward.
I prefer the Daemon Prince with the Axe. It does get -1 to hit (which now in 9th ed is ok especially if you face units that can also give -1 to hit as it is capped at -1). The prince gets a to-hit reroll, so hitting on a 3+ with reroll is fine. The base damage is 3 which means you often only need to get 2 wounds through to drop most medium characters. Add Daemonic strength power, means he is wounding any vehicle on a 3+.
I am also tempted to try a unit of 10 rubrics all with warp flamers in a rhino. That is 10-60 hits at AP-2 maybe add the heavy war flamer for more fun. A good unit to use as a screen after their rhino dies and the obvious choice for overwatch.
Now that monsters and vehicles can shoot in combat and do not suffer move and shoot penalty the Defiler is looking really good. The Maulerfiend is ok, but the shooty forgefiend should be more useful overall. He still gets 8 shots in melee.
I also think a 1000 sons list is not complete without a Mutalith Vortex Beast. I would take one Mutalith, 1 Defiler and 1 Forgefiend as my heavies.
Agree that exalted are amazing for their points. I love Magnus but he is very expensive and needs some kind of wound limit per phase like GW gave to Ghaz.
Loved this army's flavor before I knew much about 40k. Might be time to finally crack and get started on a chaos army.
Hi Scorpion, what are your thoughts on (1) Tzaangor, (2) Tzaangor Enlightened, and (3) FW Dreadnoughts: are any of these still worth taking in a TS army? Otherwise, thank you for this very informative video!
I'm not Scorpian, but I can take a stab at it if you like. Personally I dropped tzangors not to long ago. With the points increase at chapter approved and exclusion from the Hateful Assault rule even though they are Heretic Astartes they just flopped against other pur melee options. Now another points increase and still no bonus in combat. If you really want melee i would suggest running a separate detachment of daemons and take furys or bloodleters, probably bloodleters. As for enlightened theh have always been niesh for me. They are fast and resilient, which is good, but with the limit of 1 to modifiers you cannot auto wound on 4s any more. I still like enlightened and will likley bust them out from time to time, but not as much.
Now by FW Dreadnoughts I assume you mean hellforged. I only have experience running Contemptors, but I really like them. From what I can remember only going up maybe 20ish points. A bit of a hit, but they are still nice i think. I like them with soulburners as its basically a super smite per shooting phase. I know most people run butchers, but with -2 on bolters I don't feel 1ksons needs that much help against infantry. Granted I'm not an expert on these things so take that with a grain.
Wonder how the shooty fiends will do in in 9E with the changes. I'm thinking about getting back into 40k with 9th and I did have enough TS stuff for about 1k points worth before shelving 8th ed.
Hey Luke, thank you for sharing your thoughts! I would want to add, that "All is Dust" also affects the Units invuln. So you'd have Rubrics and Scarabs get a 2+, 4++ against D1 Weapons and with the Strat or the Power they could get even a 2+, 3++! :) should keep them quite safe. Good Luck with your TS in upcoming battles!
*If I'm right, rulewise your Scarabs and Rubrics could get even a 2++ Invuln if you use the Power "Weaver of Fate" and the Strat "Indomitable Foes" on them. These cap the invuln to a 3++ and your "All is dust" improves it further to a 2++ against D1. Sick. And maybe not, what GW intended...
Once we get 2 wound Rubrics and 3 wound Scarab Occults, our Weaver of Fates and Glamour of Tzeentch combo is even better, and Veterans of the Long War is a chad combo already, and plus one to armor save against wounds from damage one weapons.
The only thing i would include is for the Rubric Marine Squad size. They can be very devasting if you go for 20 and than throw them right into the enemys face with the Dark Matter Crystal relic in turn 1. Its even better if 9 of them hold a warpflamer since they all got 12 " range.
Don't think warpflamers have been boosted to 12" yet, they're styill 8"
been playing around with cult of duplicity. super fun to play. maybe not the *best* but you can play the board really well
Duplicity should actually be really good in the new Ed! Their Power lets you "jump" your slow Units like Rubrics and Scarabs around the board where they have to be. holding/defending objectives, do rituals and so on...With this Cult paired with Dark matter Christal, you almost never need to worry about your Range. And you threaten the opposing Deployment-Zone aswell. Your Opponent needs to play around the fact that you can land where it hurts the most. This is no joke!
And unless I missed a faq the duplicitous tactician trait does not limit the unit as long as it is in the cult. That means mauler fiends, a transport full of RM with flamers, hellforged predators with many many flamers. All need to get across the board, now turn one. Best cult in my opinion.
@@jackobanter4031 good point. As it stands 9th seems to be an Edition, where you need to play the mission rather than to wipe the opponent off the Board. It'll be not so much about kills but about boardcontrol. Therefore I would rate durable units quite highly. Just because you have to stay in a certain place through your opponents Turn in order to get victorypoints. A Transport packed with RM should be really nice for this job. The enemy has to shoot the Tank and still needs to shoot the unit inside. Tough task. I even like Tzeentch Deamons in this Ed. For their sweet 4++ :).
@@davids.3861 i could imagine creating a detachment from another cult like time could be an interesting option. at least for 2000p games. a patrol detachment from time cult for would be rather though to get rid off. 2 cp aint the expensive for the cult psychic power on a chunk of models. the cult of duplicity controll the board in turn 1-2, and the Time cult for duability.
Personally, the five I choose are Rubricae, Scarab Occult Terminators, Exalted Sorcerers, Magnus the Red, and Ahriman.
As a new Thousand Sons player building his army, I'm quite torn between the traditional blue and gold armor (like my kill team) or painting white armor. Regarding your list, I completely agree based on what I've seen from other games, not to mention that these units have been solid foundations for a strong TS army in 8th edition as well. Based on what I've experienced playing 500-750 pts of 9th edition (all be it playing tau), bringing transports have become game changers in this edition. My current question for you is do you think TS players should start looking towards bringing Rhinos to the table, and what do you think will work best for an army that tends to avoid heavy armor in an edition that favors vehicles?
Nice Video. I am about to start painting mine. I think for 9th I would replace the Maulerfiend with Defilers and move them to 4th in your list.
I was really thinking about starting with thousandsuns they are really cool. I love them just like death guard. I really hope they do a couple more chaos legions like they did with those 2.
hi im new to warhammer, got myself into thousand sons. A quick question, is the daemon prince of tzeentch the same the the normal daemon prince? because i cant seem to find any info about the one shown in the video. thanks
Awesome work Scorpion! Liking this new format! 🧙♂️
super chill warhammer stuff my dude
Can you charge a unit after you use cult of duplicity sorcerous façade ability to teleport them 9" away from an enemy unit?
I'm can't decide to do maulerfeinds or helbrutes
How can you have ahriman and demon prince alongside 3 exalted sorcerer? Do youbtake another detachment to fit them all?
so hard choosing models as a noob. Was basically told to avoid Maulerfiends
Not sure I agree with that advice
Maulerfiends are a bit of a feast or famine unit, their output is pretty impressive, but that is kind of known, so your opponent will rarely let them get into their happy place without a bit of babysitting. Although using warptime to give it 20" movement on the first turn to get it in your opponents grill. Hardest part is justifying its points to alternative choices (namely helbrute defiler and predators
What about Scarabs Occult Terminators ? I think they were the best unit in late 8th with teleport or heal abilities from a Cult. I tested them once by 10 and they were absolute killers, they made the game, they finished intact (just 1 woundl).
I run them as Time with a Terminator Sorcerer loaded with High Magister and a familiar for +2 on that power. Plus you can put them at a 3++ save. I agree that they are insane and with the shoot twice stratagem they can out out the hurt. Unfortunately it is also one heck of a points investment. 1 unit of ten is 1/5 of a strike force army. It worked for me in 8th and could still work in 9th, but idk about top 5.
lol... Rubic marines, guess theyre a cubic puzzle wrapped in an enigma ;)
Gotim
Looking forward to the new reviews...
I find 3x Hellforged Scorpius invaluable in the Primaris marine meta.
Great vid, thanks for your time!
so where could I find the demon prince that you have in the video and I haven't been able to find it online?
Search for a Necrosphinx model. It’s not actually a Daemon Prince model from 40K, but it fits the theme more than the standard Daemon Prince.
read the title as 5000 units you should have in your army xD
A 40k army that has the best sorcerers is good enough for me.
h e x c e l l e n t, as a newbie this is useful
I should a 5k miniature sons army? Will do
This is basically ALL the models they have
What no love for Magi Magic?
I dunno, 5000 troops is a lot. I don't think I can afford that much
Lmao, arent there only like 3 to begin with?
So im kind of confused with the cults. So taking one means that every psychic unit gets a new spell, but as far as im aware each spell can only be cast once per psychic phase so only one unit could actually use it once per turn, is that correct?
For instance if i play cult of time could I use the spell with multiple units to bring modles back or just the one?
Yeah so all the psyker units get the spell, but then the normal rules for psychic powers applies..so can only one unit can cast it once per turn.
But any of your psykers can cast it, without having to sacrifice any of their other powers.
That's particularly useful because it includes the Sorcerers in Rubric and Terminator units, who otherwise only have access to a nerfed Smite and one power from one discipline which is usually either bad or redundant because your actual psykers took the good ones. So while you don't get to spam the power, you do get to deploy it almost anywhere on the battlefield, usually without repositioning or reducing the efficacy of your characters.
@@ProjectThunderclaw yeh yeh i just find it kinda strange, like other armys got psychic awakenings that can buff the entire army were as we get a spell that can be cast once 😅 like i get that spaming it would be op but I think itd make sense if you can cast it up to 3 times or somthing. But hay ho
Eldar when? :)
KHORNE!!!!!!