Why you shouldn't decap CPU
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
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someone didnt read the instructions of their delidding tool
If they even used one lol
Delidding is very worth it if you have a non soldered CPU such as a 8700k. If you delid the CPU, apply liquid metal on the "cristal" and put the lid back in, you can expect to see up to 25C of temperature drop with non soldered lids which is insane. I did that with my chip to allow for a bit higher overclock while keeping the temperatures and noise levels low. I've also did this to customers CPUs like old 3rd or 4th gen CPUs which were hitting the thermal limit instantly even with a known good cooler. The thermal interface material between the die and the lid failed. It's rare, but happens if your cpu is old enough.
Newer chips have the lid soldered to the die and deliding is not as effective. Still works and you can get up to a 10C improvement, but the risk is not worth it in my opinion. Solder is hard to break compared with just thermal paste. It's easy to crack the die, knock components off or break the pcb with the excessive force and stress needed to take the lid off.
Yup, my first delid attempt cost me a i5 3570K, i did the blade method and scraped the PCB and killed it. My second attempt was a 3770K that was a success and i still have that CPU working 10 years later. The third was a 8600K, also a success. Dropped about 20ºC on both of them, and both were delidded with the "vice method" :)
very neat repair as usual!
Funny how common this issue is, NF has the exact same repair in his recent video, with the same capacitor knocked off.
It's a stupid idea. Delidding the cpu only makes a very small difference. The performance will still be limited by the tdp.
Either buy a stronger cpu or get a better cooling system
@@tyrellwreleck4226 not entirely though, you cannot get the same results by just buying a better cooler but yeah it is not necessary for an average user, just a neat thing for oc enthusiats.
vey nice work master 👌
The fan in your heat gun doesn't sound very good, hope you have a replacement fan or another heat gun.
there was one way which is not safe..but supposedly a little safer to decap those -- that is by heating the cpu just to the temp the cap will pop off easily (around 180 i think).. but then.. what is the point.. lol
Not sure, but I think those capacitors are unique as in you probably should have used a 8.5uF Cap instead of a 10uF. Not sure what would be the result.
Some part of the capacitor was not connected due to the partially missing pad. Obviously the capacitor is 10 uF.
Im just here to multiply the effect.
You remove IHS because the IHS is not flat from the manufacturing and compared to direct die can cause up to 30C difference in temperatures and that is huge if you are buying top of the line CPU and you want to extract it's real performance out of it and not what some crooked copper lid is limiting you to.
If you’re delidding, you better know how to solder. I don’t see how people mess with things they can’t fix, I guess more money than brain cells lol
Are we really looking at a 10 microfarad ?? That is crazy. No Wonder why it dies so often 😢
that was the value i gathered from identical chip a while back
@northwestrepair I surely think that you have the correct value I have no doubts about that ! But thinking to pack such a value in a so tiny volume may lower the mean time between failures of these damn caps...
🤣Surely we do not suffer of the "cap plague" of some years ago (the obscure formula that was stolen but with a missing component of the electrolite making them dry or even explode way before expected) but that is even more subtile and vicious because these tiny caps always fail making a short circuit. So yeah it's not a plague, it's a cancer !
@@fernandomoreno475 makes me wonder, why they short ?
Resistors fail the opposite way.
@@northwestrepair Absolutely, just as older electrolitics that dried out, they leave an open circuit most of the times. IMHO it's a inner property of the tantalum. Normally the dielectric should have a very high resistance, it's an insulator. I think here the level of compactisation makes this layer so thin that when it fails, either the two electrodes fuse together or the dielectric changes it's structure so that it is now able to conduct electricity, and to conduct it pretty well as we can see.
That would be AWESOME if someone keeps them all and after a good harvest of such failed caps to put them in boiling sulfuric acid to expose the armatures and inspect them with a microscope. only that will tell us the truth, or at least give some clues about what is truely happening.
@@northwestrepair Well, a capacitor with such a value is almost certainly going to be a multi-layer ceramic capacitor. With modern MLCCs the inductance of the capacitor primarily depends on the package size: The smaller the package, the lower the inductivity and the higher the self-resonant frequency is, so there's a push in PCB design circles to a scenario where a single capacitor is used, in as small of a package as possible, with the highest capacitance available in that package, and the manufacturers vent on developing crazy capacitances in tiny packages.
As a result, we got huge amount of extremely thin layers, with electrodes in between them.
Ceramic cracks will allow contaminants into the capacitor, which can cause low resistance or shorts between electrodes. They can develop due to improper shipping, or improper soldering (especially when hand soldering), board flexing during installation, or normal operation and so on...
For bonus points, there are microscopic movements of PCBs and electronic components (especially ceramic capacitors) about which most designers don't really think, which can exacerbate the issues with cracks. Back in the MAX232 days of serial ports, capacitors would often sign along with the data.
There are some solutions for this, but they aren't as accessible for repairmen: For example, stacked MLCCs are supposed to be more resistant to board flexing. There are some which have soft termination between solder points and internal electrodes, which should decouple some of the stress, and there are designs which have short electrodes on the sides, and then long electrodes disconnected from the sides in the middle (creating two caps in series).
However, currently they all tend to have much lower capacitance values for the same package size, and if you're doing repairs, you'll most likely be more or less stuck with package sizes the layout designer picked.
That new cap looks a bit tall. Will it not collide with the HS or cooler?
its the same package.
Did my 12900K and 14900K just fine with the Debaur kit. Gotta pay attention
also have to understand what is beyond your personal skill level. for instance it would be beyond mine but fortunately i dont want to overclock. i was an original overclocker back with pentium 200 mmx back when nobody had heard of overclocking in the 90s. maybe i got it out of my system back then lol
@@davidhines7592 It's just such a time consuming thing to overclock these days, and I don't even know how you would test for stability. You can run all your tests and the CPU seems stable, only to find some workload which makes the CPU unstable. Unless you really need to squeeze out every drop of single core performance out of your CPU, I just don't see a reason to invest much time into overclocking.
When the pads get ripped off a ceramic capacitor, the parallel plates (metalic layers) get exposed. Had he re-used the broken part, there was a good chance the plates would have shorted together when soldered - shorting out the supply voltage. Smooth move replacing the part.
Wow man, never thought that would happen, thanks for mentioning it 👍
The process is otherwise known as deliding and basically point is to remove heatspreader in order to do direct to die cooling, usually combined with liquid metal. Which drops temperatures and allows higher overclocking. Also it really got popular when intel replaced solder between heatspreader and die with regular TIM, that wasn't as good at thermal conductivity. Enthusiasts often would delid to apply liquid metal between CPU and heatspreader. Once Intel returned to solder, because they had hard time competing with AMD and had to push their CPUs hard, so they ran hot, procedure is less beneficial, unless you do direct to die cooling, replacing heatspreader with waterblock that is designed for direct to die cooling. Of course procedure never was without risks, from knocking components, to escaping liquid metal, especially with madlads who did it to laptops, bump it and there goes liquid metal all over the place. Also with direct to die cooling you always risk to apply too much pressure and crack the die itself. And of course, if you want real literal decapitation, check failures with soldered CPUs, where people fail to deal with solder and just rip upper part of die off. But people do it because benefits are 10C+ lower temperatures, depending on CPU.
Also if you want even more extreme, it is die lapping, where you carefully remove top layer of die to get even closer to die cooling than deliding, with hopefully not lapping off necessary parts. Though this is definitely going to shorten CPUs life, since top layers are there for protection too, I think some sort of leakage happens over time if protective layer of die is lapped. But you can absolutely max out those overclocks, especially with involvement of LN2 for cooling.
But yeah, I rather do none of these, because I do prefer my hardware to live long and happy life, even if that means I get 10 less FPS in some games. :-D
I am amazed at what u can do. Hope I never need a gpu repair man, but if I do, I definitely know where to go. Thanks again for showing us your skills. Truly amazing
I'd love to know what speed that Intel CPU is.
Great example of why De-Lidding your CPU voids the warranty.
I did it once with my 7700k I used a high quality delid tool (DDM2). Then I applied the perfect amount of liquid metal and it ran 5 years flawlessly until I sold it.
When I do something like this, I take my time and do it carefully.
It was worth it btw, the temps dropped by 10°C in idle and 30°C on full load. But that was on a CPU that had paste under the IHS, unlike now.
Same here. I bought a 7700k right around release, delidded and applied liquid metal and saw a similar ~30° reduction in full load temps. CPU is still running with a 5.1ghz OC to this day.
your gpu looks strange :P
upside down? then the electrons will fall out of it 😨
This, just because it's legal doesn't mean it should be done necessarily.
wow northridgefix fixed the same cap yesterday 😅
😅
Thaking in account that those small caps have about 20% tolerance, the 8.5uF was still in spec. Given the damage on the cap, I would replace it anyway. Thanks for the entertainment.
"Why buy delidding tool, if a pipe wrench does the trick!"
LOL its the same cap northridgefix fixed this week on a 13900k.
I know it's hard to test it, but now I need to know if the CPU was saved and it works :D Hopefully the owner will let you know (and us as well ^_^)
I saw a video where they removed those and the cpu still worked fine. they then proceeded to remove them all one by one and it worked until there were only one or two left. It was an older cpu, like a 7600k I think.
Did deliding myself with sandy and ivy bridge cpus. Key to deliding is, research, how does the cpu look underneath the heatspreader, already ppl that delided, any info about the TIM. Then decide, start with a razor like blade or with tooth silk. No other deliding contraptions required, take your time while working around with tooth silk or razor. Doesn't matter if progress rivals tectonic plate drift, if you manage to wiggle your way around the heatspreader without scratching, breaking, dropping or knocking of components, you're golden.
you forgot the northridgefix outro music.
i was thinking about it lol
People think delidding is such a good idea watching fad TH-camrs like Jayztwocents but man....for everyday users...delidding is super unnecessary. The ONLY reason to delid is if you're trying to break a world record at overclocking.
Going for the direct die cooling. I briefly toyed with the idea, but I didn't like the risk/reward .
Exactly my thinking, always gotta think of what you have to lose compared to what you have to gain. I still don't even go near water cooling in fact :S
@@Veganarchy-Zetetic Water cooling is not that risky at all when done correctly.
@@daviddesrosiers1946 You could say that about de-lidding too ;)
Water cooling can and has leaked for people many times. This can destroy your motherboard, CPU, PSU, graphics card etc all at once. That's a big risk for a little extra cooling. The balance of risk/reward ratio is WAY off imo. Water pumps can also fail etc.
The worst that can happen with air cooling is the fan breaks or dust slows down the cooling performance. I have alarms go off when temperatures rise or fans stop so I can fix the problem. I can't fix fried components from water damage. BIG difference.
@@Veganarchy-Zetetic Yes, it can. Regular inspections and proper maintenance of the loop prevents such problems. Also, using proper coolant prevents shorting in the event of a leak because proper coolant is dielectric. Water cooling is not the same as de-lidding a CPU. Also, the risk reward balance for water cooling is nowhere near as close. My water cooled rig will absolutely destroy air cooled equivalent setups every day and twice on Sunday.
@@daviddesrosiers1946 I bet you my air cooled PC can NEVER get a water leak no matter what. I bet it would run at the exact same speed too. Just slightly warmer...
I also killed my Ryzen 7 3700X CPU by delidding it.
But the tiny thingys are under the Lid, so you cant see them.
Luckily everbody wants to sell these type of cpu, so you can easy cheap a new one. Which is until now still not delidded.
Better than factory he he
Listen, it's only legal to solder caps upside down in Australia. The FBI is comin' for ya, boi.
Amazing content, you get more views if your title was "why you shouldnt delid a cpu"
gamer nexus used heat as a method to decap (was needed to show the damage that happened with the 7800x3d and a voltage issue).... we all know how good HEAT is on a cpu.. and i think he had to use quite a bit of heat
Marie Antoinette Called
Asking if you an Re-Cap??
Lol did they even take even a cursory glance at the instructions?
How to find out value of such caps on unknown cpu? I have few xeons with missing caps
Sadly it is necessary to decap after the cheap ass paste dries out. Manufacturers shouldn´t be allowed to use paste and solder the idiot cap aka "heat spreader" on the die.
Now, that's a DERBAUER wanna be...
how do we know you fixed it, unless you tested it ?
I am just curious why they would even put any components ON the CPU deck? why not under the scalp cover for example?
Is it perfectly legal, are you sure...
You're losing the plot with these titles tbh... Don't overclock, don't delid, don't mine, don't repaste, seriously, it's time to stop.
i agree.
If people were not doing those things, things would not break
Hello internet.
*AOL dialup noises*
I was just waiting for you to plug it into the pcie cable and slap a cooler on it...
Do you repair aio waterpumps?
Nwr, cpu repair specialist
When you poke it should bounce a bit, both too much bounce and not bouncing at all are no good..
Nice and easy for once!
Better than factory?
too easy for you ))
recapitated
I remember relocating surface mount components on the old slot A Athlons, and that was how you would Overclock them. This really took me back.
Oh, you didn't do any pencil mods? Most hilarious unlock method I ever seen.
@@btwbrand 😂 no, but I do remember those days. I guess we change the resistance however we can.
@@btwbrandPencil mod was for those CPUs with exposed test pads that you could bridge over, at the good old time of Socket A CPUs. OP is talking about an even older era of CPUs, where you had to move whole resistors around!
@@btwbrand The pencil mods only worked on the socketed Athlons and Durons - for the first Slot A Athlons you had to shuffle resistors around (or get a GoldFinger device).
Good work :)
👍👍👌👌
what is that CAP doing to cause a problem by missing ? normally caps are use to level the IC's, right ?!
customer said it was crashing or nor performing as well as it should be.
@@northwestrepair i see, might be related with the power stability vs core speed.
Thank you for the reply. 😉
I used one of those replacement socket mounts instead it gave about the same temperature reduction.
Better then factory xD
Awesome video
Umm, they both worked on processor with missing caps in their latest videos. Coincidence? I think not. Even their names both starts with North.
Was it the only damage?
yes as far as i know
Some people shouldn't anything, ever.
I've delidded a few CPUs but never recommend it. Anyone who isn't an expert are inclined to just throw it into a bench vice and destroy it.
I delided my 8600k with a razor. You have to be careful not to cut into the pcb
You probably meant "delid", not decap. Decap means removing the epoxy layer on top of an IC for visual inspection or glitching.
Decapitation means head removing. The IHS in this case is the head.
Yh I considered it more of a joke tbh@@johnchaos78
evidently "decap" also means "remove a capacitor"
It's a joke because the guy de-cap(acitor)itated the CPU. Humor is lost on the normies of the world
Hi, have you checked the new caps too? those tiny caps above 4uF tend to show lower values that they should have....maybe due to manufacturing process idk.
Same day as NRF... _plays mistery music_
Nice!
Thanks!
nice it will go well with fish and chips, and mushy peas with salt and vinegar
Well a different and easier fix than usual, hopefully it brings enough money
No big deal, super easy, and there are very few cases where capacitor sizing really matters as long as it's large enough to overcome its inductance.
Delidding isn't as bad as some people might think, you just need the right tools and the knowledge to do so. You can drop temperatures by a considerable margin if you are willing to take the risk and direct die cooling is hands down the best you can have.
In a time when CPUs reach 100C just for pushing all cores at ones... you gotta do something to at least keep it in the 80s, especially if you wish to tune it further.
We shouldnt have to do that if the manufacturer cared to do something about the temperatures in the first place. We pay top money for this stuff.
or maybe doing it with the wrong tools ,ive delidded some cpus from intel and never destroyed the SMD ,again i use tools from de8auer ,they are designed to delid without destroying things xD
Nice. Always good to watch your soldering skills.
Good to know that I can send my cpu to you if I accidently would knock off a micro component 😅
I'm planning to delidd mine. I've done this before so it's nothing new, but there's always a risk of course.
I'm ofcourse planning on putting the IHS back with the help of some heat resistent silicon glue so there won't be any shorts and not too much degradation of the liquid metal.
That method has worked very well in the past with my 11700K, which still performs very well.
Be carefull when delidding people! :D
What heat resistent silicone are you talking about? Any silicone will perfectly manage the 100 Celsius and above so you need just about almost any silicone. Don't forget to leave a little part without silicone so the air would have a way to dilate. That's it.
@@Dandan-tg6tj Oh my bad, I forgot that silicone in general is pretty heat resistant. Hmm i always left a tiny opening unintentional intentionally... sort of xD
But what do you mean with to let the air dilate, if you don't mind explaining.
@@zackzeed The crystal expands a little when it gets hot, the IHS also expands a little more when gets heated but the air that's between the IHS and the rest of the CPU expands way more so it needs a place to get out through it. It's not a sealed place . From factory Intel CPUs have a small portion where there is no adhesive at all.
@@Dandan-tg6tj Ah yes I knew that the IHS and chip slightly expand and so on, but didn't think about the air. Makes sense. Thank you for reminding me and explaining!
It's commonly refereed to as "delidding" not decaping.
i didnt know that. i looked up the term on google and went with it
could you test the chip?
Wow 😮
🙏👏👏👏🙏
good job for the owner of the broken heart,to send the ripped pads with cpu,in order to identifying it and find suitable waifu replacement..ofc,if the owner send the right ripped part of it💪i've recently dismantle my gpu for soft cleaning❤🩹maan,those capacitors are tiny af👻hUgE rEsPeCt+ for you,Tony
How do you read ceramic capacitors with a multimeter?
The meter have capacitance mode to read that values
Good work 💯👏
I've never seen a delidding tool *not* tear off some capacitors.
Der8auers delid tool doesn't do that. Used it twice to delid my 10850k, first time to delid it proper, second time to replenish the Liquid Metal on the CPU die as it tends to go dry after a few years. It's designed for certain Gen chips, you just have to get the right one for your Gen.
Hi Tony!
Nice to see sth new :)
I wonder if the client rips off the component once again. If so, then we will have another repair video :)
Seems like inappropriate tool was used for delidding
See you, God bless!
seems to me more like deliberate placement of components so when delid process is undergoing the IHS gonna break some tiny things from the chip..butt,i'm no economic expert,just a buyer annoyed w things you can upgrade but made easely to break..pc parts used to be more resilient than today,i wonder why..
@barbarianzg8826 yeah, unfortunately but it's true. Nowadays not only PC but everything including replacement parts are intentionally of lower quality. Why?, the answer is simple - money. Lots of companies are just focues only on taking money from customers. I only wonder which companies are still trustworthy today.
Back in the day, when you bought sth you would use it for years. Also repairs were much more easier. Today this doesn't exist. Some companies, especially Apple, make on purpose theirs products in such a way you will find a repair very difficult to solve or even impossible.
I always delid, currently running a delidded 14900k with a direct die waterblock.
Some people just don't know what they are doing or are not using the proper tools to do it with.
If the customer was using a der8auer delidding tool then he didn't follow the instructions or used one made for another CPU. His are made to not damage SMD's but are also specific for a CPU model. Or he could have knocked it off when removing the silicon adhesive as it's easy do so. The purpose of doing it is to get lower temps, you remove the indium solder from between the CPU and heatspreader and replace with liquid metal. Could be the difference between thermal throttling or not in an SFF case. Then it's just about required for competitive overclocking. I would agree with shouldn't do it with a mid tower case that has good airflow and a minor overclock but with small form factor I would say it's a good idea but only if proper research into how to do it and must be willing to damage the CPU and pay the consequences of doing so.
not worth the 10 extra fps too much risk little reward
its to lower the temps. Most people that delid do it when purchase it so if anything goes wrong they just return it and buy another one.
I guess the owner is some sort of a benchmark record holder or what ever. Without the cap, it struggles to keep up at higher clocks.
makes sense but not something i would risk or say is risk free @@northwestrepair
Delidding the CPU is OK unless it's made by a dumb. Use the right tools and watch Derbauer for delidding process
Capacitors only needed to remove noise from the electro-magnetic field generated by the enviroment and other electronic parts. CPU would work the same. It's a free money for the repair service, but the owner must know he's an idiot 😛
As far as I know, if you take out all the capacitors on the CPU, it will work. Those capacitors are used to deliver power to the chip in fractions of a second, during the controller of the VRM on the board informs the MOSFETs about the required power when the CPU goes from idle to fully used. There is an experiment on TH-cam where they tried that
god damn man impressive and hard repiers as usual as a fellow solder level technician like you some may not know how hard it is or what am i saying
Fellow gears!
Delidding is fine if done with the correct tool.
Delid? No worries if done properly. Huge gains on direct die cooling.
am sure it would be
Delidding is fine if done with the correct tool.
So you liquid cool this or what ? Nitrogen or liquid metal ?
@@northwestrepair
Air, water, liquid metal, all of these are doable if you know what you are doing. I had mine 7700k delidded with applied liquid metal running for 3 years at 5.1ghz (won silicone lottery with that one) with voltage tweaks in bios with no issues. Took me a good time to find these perfect settings with lots of tweaking. I was cooling it normal 240mm AIO in well ventilated case with max temps around 85°C.
But delidding is mostly done nowdays to keep these new cpus temperature under control. Out of the box 12/13/14th gen Intels have absolutely no issue to spike to 100°C with stock settings. With undervolt, you can manage it a bit. With undervolt and delid you can really cut down on temeratures by a lot, we are talking drops by 20°C
1st 🇵🇹
2nd
That would be Jay telling people to delid their CPU for direct-die cooling. Just like overclocking, i've done said it's not worth the damage caused. Plus, NO ONE is going to buy a CPU with tampered info. All CPUs are batched, and ratings are set afterwards, so nothing prevents crooks from moving resistors to fool CPUZ.
How would it even be possible to move resistors to tamper with CPU info ???
There's no fooling CPUZ unless you know how to tamper with CPU microcode, and why tf would that need delidding anyways.
@@zetsubou3704 Same way you unlock CPU for overclocking. If you're asking for How-To insructions, bugger a tree.
@@aleksandrbmelnikov Mf you living in the early 2000's ? There are no articles or discussions I can find that mention faking a CPU's identification.
And yeah all modern CPU's are locked or unlocked from the factory, there is way to unlock them other than base clock overclocking.
@@zetsubou3704 Please, feel free to shop on Chinese websites. They almost have the laser etched fonts correct for relabeled IHS lid. BTW: Redrawing lines with a coductive paint, was what you did BACK IN THE EARLY DAYS!
@@zetsubou3704it isn't. The chip info is permanently stored in the silicon by blowing fuses after assembly and binning etc. Dude doesn't know what he is on about, these aren't 2000 era Athlons.
Not entirely unlike brain surgery