Movie Theaters Are Dying Because the Future Is Better
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
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#videoessay #commentary #moviebusiness #movietheatres
I worry that we are losing the ability to share common public spaces. Even many old people have forgotten how to be quiet in a theater. School board meetings and city council meetings have become shouting contests. The bookstore I work at encourages people to hang out for hours, but now it has become common for people to sprawl all over the floor, blocking access to the books and making aisles impassable.
My feeling as well. Hell even watching a TV show that was being broadcast in real time. I remember watching the finale of mash and knowing that millions of other people are watching it at the same time. We had a shared experience that we could talk about even years later.
When I saw Avengers endgame in the theater, when Captain America wielded Mjolnir, the theater erupted in cheers. You don't get that at home.
If people are sprawled out on the floor blocking aisles that sounds like a design issue for the store. The store isn’t providing appropriate reading spaces for their patrons.
Theater's still exist, instead of going to see recorded media it may be more common to go see a live show at a local theater
People weren’t always quiet as church mice in theaters. The Globe famously was raucous. Note that football still packs stadiums because there is a shared communal experience and participation is encouraged.
I am happy to say that I have experienced very little bad behavior in movie theaters, but I do recognize that my experience may not be typical. But to the extent that "Hell is other people," being able to exert some control over who you see a movie with is, I think, a big part of the reason home video (going all the way back to the days of VHS when I first came across this "movies are dying!" lament) has been replacing movie theaters. Steaming is just another step in this same process.
As a huge computer nerd … i still prefer to own stuff. I don’t want my art to be files on a hard disk, especially if its one I don’t even own. I prefer books and records because they have literal weight.
While I agree with you, physical over streaming, that wasn't really Steve's argument, you never owned the film after watching it at the cinema either.
@@bluemujika You didn't go to the theatre to own a copy of the movie, you went there to see it on a larger screen, in better quality and with far better sound than you could get at home. And so you could see it without having to wait 12-18 months for it to come out on home video.
But the gap in those things has shrunk. Granted, nobody can really fit a 60'x40' projection screen in their home if they're anything like a normal person, but a good 60" 4k flatscreen is cheaper than going to the theatre every week for a year (not including travel or snacks), and that's certainly about as large a screen as is practical for home use. A Dolby Atmos system is reasonably affordable, too.
Which is why the only times I've been to the cinema in the last 10 years have been to see the Dune movies on an IMAX screen. That, at least, genuinely offers an experience I can't recreate at a "good enough" standard at home.
I think the best option is ripping dvd's onto a network attached storage. DVD's can go bad sitting in storage, but if you have a backed up NAS you're more guaranteed to at least keep what you paid for. You just have to replace the hard drives as they go bad as opposed to your entire dvd collection (including ones out of print)
@@bluemujika Yeah but there's a physical experience. And at the end he says he owns a kindle and streams music. While I do both as well, they just don't compare. Reading an actual book is very different from reading a kindle.
i'm the same mind with DVDs. that and i've seen bootleg from other countries. my family tend to buy things regionally if possible, but more times than often, we had to do it the "illegal" way because there was no market for that one thing that meant a lot to us. once it BECOMES available legally, we invest in them, but even then, that can be hit or miss, since the majority of us NEED captions for spoken dialogue (my mother's hard of processing words as of late, and Sis and i have ADHD/ADD-I respectively).
and then there are the archivists of TH-cam and bit-torrent communities. they're the GOAT to keep pulling that off regardless of DMCA take-downs. (YT made a mistake allowing monetizing/demonitizing a channel user-based choice.)
I feel like an important aspect of movie theaters, music stores, bookstores, etc. is that sense of community. Going to a physical space with other people and interacting with them. It's part of why church is so important to some people. I still go to book stores because there are people that work there that love books that can make recommendations that an algorithm never could. You can also get that with libraries and not have to worry about the cost.
Movie theaters specifically can have an energy that you can't get at home. I remember going to the midnight premiere of the Simpsons movie and evryone laughing together. I remember going to see Avengers Endgame and everyone cheering when Cap has Mjolnir and when everyone shows up in the portals. It's a magical, electrifying experience.
Getting everything delivered directly to your house is convienent, and necessary for people with mobility issues, but it contributes to our general alienation and growing sense of loneliness. We need more reasons for people to go out, interact, and make friends with eachother, not less. Ideally they shouldn't require money for people to enjoy them, but that's a separate problem.
"On your left."
Something being more convenient doesn't mean it's inherently better
I want to point out that it's not just mobility issues...I have sensory issues that make going to the big blockbuster movies kind of a nightmare. Going to a quieter movie in a small indie place is usually okay. The sensory bombardment involved makes it nearly impossible to feel any sense of community with people from being in a theater with them.
@@amw6846 You only speak for minority of people like yourself or who are autistic. Of course the expience is different for you. But the majority of people enjoy the experience.
I had those same movie going experiences! My personal favorite was during the Godzilla (2016) movie, all through the movie our scaly boi is hinted at and barely shown fighting then when we get to hear his first ROAR we the audience cheered!
I very much miss the bookstore browse. Picking up a book, feeling it's heft, flipping through it's entirety to glance at a few random passages throughout before deciding whether to add it to my ever-growing stack of to-be-purchased books; Amazon will NEVER be able to replicate that. Sometimes you don't know you want a book until you've seen it in person, felt it. I miss the gargantuan magazine selection, too for similar reasons.
Try your public library. After all, you're probably paying for it. You can even use University libraries at public universities such as here in California. I go to the UCLA libraries.
Yeah there was something so exciting about seeing all those magazines and choosing one.
I'm sad that neither you, Steve, or any of the commentors I've read thinks of the Public Library as an alternative for accessing media. The Public Library is a font free materials, no paid subscription required, all you need is your library card. Libraries provide those desperately needed 3rd Places that do not require any kind of upfront financial outlay from a patron, and visitors can stay as long as they like.
Everyone should make certain they have an active library card. Libraries are under threat from those who would censor access to particular materials, and by corporations who see the loaning-to-everyone-free principle of Public Libraries as a threat to their profit margins.
GO, USE YOUR PUBLIC LIBRARY, BEFORE IT TOO DISAPPEARS!!!
Don't bring your baby to the theater, people.
A few chains like the Alamo Drafthouse do "crybaby matinees" _engineered specifically_ for parents of very young kids. My little nugget saw several of the Marvel films before I did. It's a great experience and a great mechanism to break free of the binary of "Either afford a babysitter or don't experience cinema for the foreseeable future."
Especially during an R rated horror movie.
@@joeblaster8770Eh... I was 7 when my dad took me to A Nightmare on Elm St. Glad he did.
yep, this and other disruption is one reason why I don't actually miss movie theaters.
There is a theater in my city that has "sensory showings." These are specially for special needs people and people with small children. The lights aren't down quite as much. The volume is still loud, but turned down a little. People are also allowed to pace in the side isles if needed.
I remember when movie tickets didn't cost more than DVDs but here we are.
You mean such a time existed?
DVDs, do you understand how technology works? Of course they’re going to charge more for movie tickets because who TF is buying DVDs in 2024? It’s not even sarcasm, it’s a serious question. How many people are buying DVDs nowadays? Even CDs are very unpopular now, let alone a whole DVD. This ain’t the 90s. DVDs and CDs are useless for the most part now. When you have everything digitalized, why would people be paying more for a physical copy of something they probably don’t even have something to play it in? It’s not the companies being greedy per say, it’s time changing.
@@al.s.3277
It’s because you don’t own the digital copy. Physical disks can’t be taken from you because, “they don’t have the license anymore”
When I was a kid, my grandma would take us to the 2nd run movie theater-they played movies after they were out of theaters but before they came to rental or tv
She called it “The Dollar Fifty” because a full price adult ticket was $1.50
Tickets here are still like 7 or 8 euros. Pretty good i think.
Predictions of the demise of movie theaters go back to the invention of television. I'm not ready to write them off yet, in the short or the long term.
Might be true. I feel like they will pivot to be even more exclusive and expensive.
Yeah there will always be a place for big screens and movies. It’s just that not every movie needs to be seen there
@@MarkkuSMaybe, there is definitely a market for communal movie experiences, like small indie theatres, I don't think these will have mega bucks business models like the movie theatres do these days and they don't necessarily have to. Home entertainment Equipment is cheap enough that people can run them out of smaller venues, having a currated experience from some well informed hobbyist to take away the endless choice paralysis alone on a Friday night. Sounds good right. Almost punk rock.
Totally with you because Steve who i enjoy is totally wrong on this one.
Of course, Blockbuster famously didn't buy Netflix when offered at a price of $50M because they didn't think that it would lead to the demise of the video rental store. How'd that prediction turn out?
In the 90s, people were predicting that technology would lead to a paperless office. It turned out that rather than going paperless, officers were using even more paper because a lot more documents were being created and people were printing out all those documents... and a lot of their emails too. But now, in many places, the vast majority of documents are digital and it's not uncommon for them to have a statement in the header or footer saying that physical copies are uncontrolled meaning that the digital version is the preferred one.
Television didn't kill off the theater because in some rather important ways it was a lot worse. Low definition video on a small screen isn't a cinema killer. Once it got good enough, digital photography killed Kodak because they stubbornly stuck with film. Once they got good enough, camera phones all but killed off point-and-shoot cameras. Home theaters are now good enough for most people for most films.
I think the theater market is going to dramatically contract, but not go away completely. It'd be hubris to say that they're going to die, but it'd also be hubris to say that they're here to stay. The only thing that can be said with any degree of certainty is that the theater industry has to change.
Theaters (mistakenly) believe they are selling "premium product." If they want butts in seats, cut the ticket prices by 2/3rds. And popcorn is the cheapest, crappiest snack on earth - stop marking it up 10000%. Sell it as the cheap slop that it is, and I'm sure people will flock to the movie theater.
I agree, everything is turning into an “elite” experience that is slowly becoming inaccessible for more and more people.
In fairness, theaters make no money off ticket sales. They need to considerably mark up concessions to stay in business.
The popcorn aspect is a friction between the movie studios/distributors and the movie theaters. The contract is that the movie studio gets most of the ticket price, so the theaters mark up everything else in the experience in order to extract profit.
It definitely might be better if a more all-around profit sharing agreement was in place, but I don't think it would be easy to get there.
The problem is movie theaters often get none of the profits from ticket sales until 2-6 weeks after release. Just as interest is declining. All those profits go to the studios.
Concession sales are literally how theaters survive.
Exactly! My favourite theatres have always been the cheap ones playing older movies, art films, or doing indie horror nights. I don't care if the seat reclines, and I prefer if the sound doesn't blow my head off! I just want to go out and see a good movie with other people somewhere other than home without spending a fortune.
Cinemas have always been hellish for me; I'm autistic and have a limit to how much noise I can handle before I completely lose the ability to understand what's going on... and as you can imagine, being in a room full of people and having everything blasted at me at about twice the volume I'm comfortable at made it really really hard to enjoy films! I haven't been to the big chain movie theatre in town for about ten years.
If there's something I really, really want to see on the big screen, I go to the local indie place that serves real food for less than half the price of a bucket of cheap nasty popcorn, and doesn't make me take off my noise-cancelling headphones, that has comfortable seating and plenty of space between chairs, that has a room especially for patrons who might need a few minutes in the quiet to wind down. That's the future of theatres - small places that cater to comfort and the needs of all their clientele.
Yes, yes, exactly this! I’d add being accessible in multiple ways (for example, I’m neurodivergent and have similar issues to you, but also physically disabled and can’t go places without accommodations that make it possible). I’d also like to see places like that adopt intermissions for shows over a certain length, to allow people to hit the head, stretch, etc. If I’m going to pay significant ticket prices for a film, getting nothing but a seat and discomfort in return isn’t enough.
This is, of course, setting aside the issue of (ongoing/new) contagious pandemic(s)… 🫣😷
Yes I'm autistic as well, and I haven't been to a big chain theatre in decades. The comfortable chairs with separation from others, strict regulation of rules, and reasonable volume levels make all the difference. Its worth paying extra if I have to.
This! IDK if I'm neurodivergent, but going to a big theater is just painful -- it makes me want to crawl out of my skin, and is not something I do except out of love for someone who really wants to go. "The collective experience " is not something I'm going to be able to access as I'm fighting a flight response.
You only speak for people who are autistic. Of course the expience is different for you. But the majority of people enjoy the experience.
I don't know if I'm autistic or not, but I do have ADHD, and I get sensory overload really easily and my brain starts to shut down in self-defense, so I can relate on some level. (Vacations are wasted on me, because all the new and exotic sights and sounds are usually too much for me to process and I get brain fog, so it ends up feeling like I just dreamt I went on vacation.)
Unfortunately there are significant drawbacks. Music online and streamed reward the artists significantly less than physical copies, this is also true of e-books. Movie theatres provide a big screen experience that only people wealthy enough for home theatre can regularly afford. It is hard to find or browse books on the internet, it being easier in a store. Many jobs are lost by these closings. Monopolies are formed among online sellers in a way that is harder to make happen in physical locations, hurting consumers. Digital books and music means no resale of used items for people looking forward to affordable access. Having good internet access to do all this is also unaffordable for many. Streaming services add up in costs. Kindles etc., have an entry cost and replacement cost. Electronic devices are also causing massive environmental damage with rare metal mining and energy use.
Absolutely! The new way is more convenient. Initially, Netflix was awesome and you could see all the movies. But now content is divided into so many different platforms…or even worse concentrated into just a couple of monopolistic corporations.
Our founders were so smart to insist on deposit copies of all registered copyrighted content. Otherwise companies like Disney would probably eliminate all copies of works they consider problematic.
The biggest winner for e-books is probably Adobe. Their market share on e-book DRM is something like 82%, and they make 22 cents on every single download.
There's a fundamental distinction that you seem to miss in your comparison: changes to books, music, and TV are just changing the distribution method; none of them are changing the experience significantly beyond the convenience factor and losing your ownership or the content you consume, as well as the communal/social aspect for those who enjoy that. Movie theatres offer a vastly different experience than watching a movie at home: a larger screen, generally better audio, and that group experience. Some people may not care about those distinctions, but they are distinctions nonetheless, making it an unfair comparison.
There's also a flaw in your reasoning: if theatres become niche, they probably won't survive. Theatres are businesses with massive overhead: distribution companies take about 90% of ticket revenue for the first few weeks a movie is playing, then it drops to 80% later, and it's only after several weeks that cinemas saw any significant profit from ticket sales, and now that has been taken away because distribution companies release their movies on streaming within a month or even weeks after theatrical release, further decreasing cinemas' ability to make their investment back. This is why concessions are so expensive: because it's the only way they can pay the massive bills for power and rent. If cinemas become more niche, they'll lose even more of that potential to break even, not making them viable to continue. So, yes, I will continue to fight for the vastly superior cinema experience.
I'd encourage you to check out Patrick H Willems recent series on this very issue. It's very good, and goes into much more nuance about the cause of the decline of theatres.
thank you, you've eloquently put what i think he's missing in his argument. watching the dark knight for the first time in a packed IMAX theater was amazing. maybe some people hate the audience gasping during some parts of the movie but i love those moments (within reason). i doubt i would feel the same about that movie had my first experience with it was streaming
I thought the 90% number was just Disney. Nevertheless, your point is correct.
As someone who has been on-board with a lot of the new ways since their early introductions: The new ways leave a hole in our hearts. When an audience is engrossed in a comedy, being a part of that audience makes the movie genuinely a lot funnier. A scary movie is a lot scarier. It's a way to connect with other people you don't even know, to share an experience with strangers, a little glimmer of communal synchronicity. (This phenomenon can also be used for evil; but when used for good can help improve community cohesion and heal wounds.)
As you touched on, digital media also has such an inevitable air of impermanence. Physical books still feel much better. It still feels best to hold a CD in your hand and say "this is mine", and it also encourages listening to albums as experiences instead of just flitting about all over the place. Video games have also undergone a similar shift with digital sales being the only available option in PC gaming these days and the consoles rapidly headed that way.
I may be a curmudgeon, but I am not a luddite. I know the numerous advantages of the new ways, and I use them. I just worry that maybe we traded away too much.
Well said.
The other downside to the loss of book stores and movie theaters is the loss of them as a third place for people to come together outside the home. Additionally with on demand streaming and endless programming choices society continues to isolate itself into their own silos instead of discussing the weekly TV episode every one was waiting to see the next day at work or school. Bowlin Alone, Robert Putnam, is a great read on this subject. Are we sacrificing the wee bit of collectiveness we had as a country for convenience?
@TheFinalFanboy It's true that we could connect with a fan of the same thing as us from the other side of the world, which is neat. But we are more and more not even considering that our next door neighbor might also be a fan with which we could discuss things.
@TheFinalFanboy But you're still technically alone when you're on social media. You're not interacting with others in person. We're dealing with an epidemic of isolation, and social media is not the answer to that.
If we value those things we should build spaces for them. Why wait around for profit driven businesses to create everything for us … then charge us for access while simultaneously using them as a platform to manipulate & advertise to us? I use library space to meet people fairly regularly. Mostly to facilitate/coordinate volunteer work, but if we invested in these places they could easily become attractive locations for social interaction. It isn't trivial of course (nothing ever is), but it also isn't a massive gulf between the existing book clubs & movie nights to becoming a genuine alternative to cinema or coffee shops for the community.
It isn't clear to me thst we actually do value public meeting spaces; but if we do we should get busy making them for ourselves not impotently lament that existing businesses aren't necessarily going to continue doing it for us.
When I was in middle school my friends and I would get dropped off at the local second-run theater where movies were $1.50 and then wander to the Barnes and Noble that was in the same shopping center. Almost every weekend. We wouldn't even have a movie in mind half the time, just show up around 7:00 on a Friday night and see what we could agree on that started within 30 minutes. It was glorious.
@TheFinalFanboy
Saw Godzilla Minus One twice. First time not too many people, the second time on a different day the place was packed to the point that my cousin and I were lucky to find seats.
I seldomly disagree with you, but in this case I do.
I will miss movie theaters because the experience of going to the movies and seeing a motion picture on the big screen just doesn't compare to watching at home for me.
It's not the same like with music - listening to a CD or streaming songs isn't much of difference to me.
The downsides of a theater visit (the people, the noise, the costs) are real. But the experience always made up for it, to me anyway. So in the end I think it's all a matter of personal taste.
Nevertheless, keep up your great work. Regards from Germany!
I don't disagree with you exactly, but as Steve notes, movie theaters won't completely go away, they'll just evolve as live-actors-on-a-stage did with the advent of movies, and as opera did when live theatre became de rigeur. And the people who make up the audience, being people who have paid for season tickets, or are really devoted to the art, or who just want to spend the time and energy to see something in a particular format will be better behaved than the huddled masses. Call me an optimist, but Western Civilization has seen this play out before. It'll be okay.
Go to small independent movie theaters. That’s the only place you can find that experience these days. And it’s just as good an experience as it always has been.
That is certainly your personal experience and valid.
Meanwhile, folks like me are more than happy to leave that shite in the dustbin of history. I receive no special experience from going to a movie. It's nice with friends but it is the FRIENDS that make the experience. Barring perhaps, some exceptions, such a particularly historic or lavish theatre. Then, admittedly, that does become the experience.
@fedupN agreed that the personal experience will 100% vary from person to person and therefore will shape various viewpoints on the matter.
The movie theatres I went to as a kid and a teenager, yeah I kind of miss those. The giant megaplexes surrounded by enough parking to build a small town, with an entire theme park of flashing lights and hooting machines crammed into the lobby, with insane prices and *commercials* before the movie you're _paying_ for, those can't die soon enough.
The thing about "buying" things for streaming is you never know when it will go away. A service shuts down, rights go away etc, so I never consider "buying" something from a streaming service "owning it" and will never pay above rental prices for it.
That's what StreamFab is for.
That is exactly why I have never trusted streaming services since the beginning and I have gone the lengths to find physical copies of films.
That's the thing, buying media as part of some service means that it's only available as long as the service provider is okay or is allowed to maintain it.
Is this method of consumption more convenient? For the most part, but there's always a cost or trade-off.
Exactly. If I REALLY like a movie, I'll buy the disc! Then I can watch it whenever, even when the internet goes down. Plus - bonus content!
Yep, I learned this the hard way. I bought a few TV shows on iTunes about 15 years ago, figuring that Apple will never go out of business, so I should be safe. I have kept the video files, through several hard drive deaths.
Apple will no longer allow me to download iTunes on my PC with Windows 11. The video files won’t play on the Apple TV app or any other app I’ve tried. I have not even been tempted to…go privateering, let’s say, since I was a kid, but this made me angry enough to consider it.
What I miss most about the slow death of bookstores, video stores and even movie theaters is the loss of browsing sans algorithm. Streaming imitates the process of walking through the aisles and plucking something random off the shelves, but it's just that, an imitation. After a few weeks of streaming, any given service will be spoon-feeding me exactly what it thinks I want, mixed with whatever their marketing dept is pushing that week. Being grabbed by a book cover or movie box cover, and discovering either a hidden gem or a piece of schlock so bad that it serves as the basis for a story you and your friends tell each other for years, is dying as a practice.
And yes, there's a loss of community that's part of the bigger move too online life in general.
I think what I miss isn't the media itself, but the social nature of the experience. Yes, streaming services et al are basically better in most ways, but it's much more lonely.
Absolutely. I miss the relatively recent experience of spending an entire weekend at a local (now closed) indie theatre for every minute of an international horror film festival, with a couple of friends and 200 or so other horror fans, living on popcorn, diet cola, and fast food grabbed between movies, and minimal sleep, for 3 days of some good, and some wonderfully trashy movies. You can't stream that kind of experience.
This. I didn't hang out at Borders or go to Virgin by myself! It was a group experience. So were the afternoon-cartoons in a way as well. Lots of folks had that-one-friend whose house you could get to faster than your own, and you'd watch the cartoons at their place instead.
Arcades vs Online Play
Bookstore with cafes need to be preserved as the habitat of the "bookstore bum" aka those who go there not just to buy things but to hang out socialize or just find a bit of peace and quiet. They are also a good "third space" between work and home. Luckily I've heard Barnes and Noble is on the rebound so they will be there in the future.
So true!
The problem with the new stuff (and I mean the last 30-40 years or so) is that many of the downsides they have were actually put there by design. Books, movies and music... they can take them away from you even if you 'bought' it. Social media sites? They suck up all your data and build up a personality profile to sell you stuff you didn't know you wanted or to manipulate you in a certain way. It's not about making money anymore. It's asking the question "how do we make more money?".
And they'll keep asking that question until everything breaks.
Truth.
So far as I know there is no actual way to buy movies electronically. Best I have found is buy the blu ray and then store it on my personal server. That way I actually own it.
I almost forgot games which need connection to a server to play. Suddenly one day ... poof they're gone too.
If buying isn't owning, than pirating it isn't theft.
@@Immudzen ...you can "buy" movies on streaming services to keep in your online "library"...as long as you are a member of the service...
The Social Experience is what sets a theater apart; going to a movie on opening night (such as Infinity War) and getting that pure 1st time viewing experience with hundreds of other people, hearing the gasps/cheers/gasps coming from yourself and so many other people, talking with friends and random strangers as you leave the theater- you're not gonna get that at home.
In the 2000s, the theaters seemed to have collectively lost their minds, cranking up the volume to the point where you're shredded at the molecular level if something explodes onscreen. I have sensitive hearing in the first place, and I couldn't take it anymore. Last movie I saw in the theater was Tron Legacy in 2010.
The last movie I saw at a theater was daredevil. The volume was insane. My husband and I vowed we'd never go back, and we never have.
(THX sound effect) Grandpa Simpson: "TURN IT UP!"
I’ve had that experience, but not so much in the last couple decades. I think the worst experience I ever had with excessive volume in a movie was when I went to see The Mask, back in 1994.
Go to a theatre, bring earplugs.
That's not necessarily the movie theatres. I've had the same experience watching action movies on television - the quiet talking parts are so soft you need the volume high just to hear what's being said. And then suddenly there's a huge explosion which deafens you....
Capitalism killed the theatre kids
Without a comma, there are several ways to interpret this sentence, and I think all of them are accurate and salient.
@@GSBarlevlol
Theatres are also about capitalism, too.
Blaming everything on capitalism it's kind of lazy particularly in this instance.
@@SiriusMined Capitalism tends to kill strands of itself. I'm not sure if you're naive, or disingenuous - either way, what I'm sure you believe is a pretty 'deep' statement, is roundly unintelligent.
Huh, in my area, community theater is thriving. Kids are participating. They’re still sending money to the same corporations in order to get rights to perform popular shows. But they’re not disappearing.
Indy bookstores are actually increasing, in my experience. There are a handful of stores within a short distance of me. Two opened just last year. Bookstores are my happy place and have been for as long as I can remember. My family visits the local small book stores in any town we visit.
I miss theatres but the experience isn’t the same as it once was. I seldom watch movies even at home.
The local theater here hasn’t been open for months. It’s not reopening. I’m not in a rural area, but a small city.
There just isn’t an audience anymore.
My local hometown Movie Theater (opened in 1929) was struggling for years before finally closing like 10+ years ago (a larger Multi-Screen opened in 1994). It eventually got "Restored" to its almost original condition (was a single Screen, then a 2 Screen (until the late 80's when it became 3). Unfortunately, its Grand Reopening was March 2020. Have been meaning to Visit. They've seemed to gravitate to Live Performances (Music) and far less Movies recently... Suppose I "must" get around to trying it out or it will eventually "die" again... And I'll be one of the causes...
Streaming services are already dystopian with their exclusivity segmentation, their tiered pricing, the double-dipping by subscription AND showing you ads.
The fact that streaming services keep launching the movies so soon after the big screen is what is killing movie theaters, but it is also killing the idea of the blockbuster. Everything being part of your subscription means no ticket sales, and now your movie has to claw back its investment from a significantly smaller pool that it shares with thousands of other movies and shows.
The death of cinema is the death of big budget movies. If you're the kind of guy who goes to independent film festivals and watches that stuff, good for you, but it's not good for anyone else.
Godzilla MinusOne was great and didn't cost 250 million to make.
When big budget films fall into obscurity, indie film makers will be presented with a huge pool of talent looking for work.
It might be the end of big budget films, but the beginning of indie films getting incredible talent and effects that never would have been possible before.
The capitalists in charge are trying to bring back the cable model.
Considering how many big budget movies are just ads for the military, could be a good thing.
Pfft, fuck bid budget movies. Most (not all) of them are mindless drivel selling to the least common denominator. The Bayverse Transformers or Fast and the Furious 9000 shite. Or the incredibly formulaic Marvel movies. Much of the budget is inflated with key actors price tags, keeping licenses, etc.
Hollywood is creatively bankrupt and, like the AAA Video Game industry, is an ageing and corrupt dinosaur that will hopefully be supplanted.
That said, yes, the capitalistic balkanization from the steaming services is awful. That is because they are becoming JUST LIKE CABLE used to be as the big beasts chomp up pieces and hid shite behind a paywall.
I have to argue with you here. It's not the WAY that I consume these things that bothers me; it IS absolutely better than it used to be.
What I miss is the SOCIAL aspect of going to a theater with family, or going to a book shop with friends and browsing, or just trying to find a movie at the video store and having that discussion. I miss those things for myself, of course, but I feel more upset that kids today won't ever have those experiences.
Again, I will admit that it's easier and those aspects can be better now, but getting together and going places is just so much more fun than going to someone's house and sitting on the couch or chatting online.
Anyway, thanks for posting.
I'm your opposite. Being able to opt out of the social aspects when I need/want to is the best part for me. However, your concern about young people does make me wonder if the removal of that aspect of daily life will be detrimental to them learning how to get along in such situations at all, and thus make it difficult for them to opt in when they need or want to. Where folks like me feel they are gaining choices about when to be social, will a later generation grow up without the skill set to feel they have a choice?
What I like is inviting some friends over, cooking dinner together, and watching a movie. That is much better than any theater experience I have ever had.
I like the privacy of being able to be in the safe environment of home, and picking the people I want to spend time with regardless of if they're online or not. Being forced into public spaces by my family to go see or do something I don't enjoy, is not an experience I ever want to have again.
I don't think theater to bookstore is a good analogy. The bookstore doesn't change your experience of the book like a theater arguably does.
I for one will miss theaters for the cultural aspect of it. There is something about a group of strangers unspokenly agreeing to take in this experience together, to say nothing about scale or quality of presentation. (I know there are a million memes about crying babies or talking people, but these have been very rare in my personal experience.)
There are a ton of reasons to enjoy streaming for accessibility reasons alone. I love it. But I love the theater too and not just because "big screen, loud noise good" It's somewhat akin to a concert for me. Can I listen to this song in my car/home on my own time? Sure. But beyond the live aspect, there is something to the community of a concert.
Movie theaters need to pivot to the back catalog. You know what has me excited to go to the movie theater? The Interstellar re-release. There are so many movies that work best in the theater, and the theaters need to lean in to this. New movies? Who cares? You want to put asses in seats, play the ORIGINAL trilogy, before George messed with them. Han shot first, god damnit.
Sounds great, doesn't work. What if I told you that AMC has been doing this for over a decade and nobody cares. Why watch T2 on the big screen when you already have access at home?
Well, I do understand the late Roger Ebert's love for the theater experience. You can watch Star Wars at home, but you don't get the effect of watching it on a ginormous screen that made space look like space. You can't watch 2001 on your laptop and get the same effect as the Cinerama experience. Thing is, I still remember what it was like taking the bus downtown to see Disney, The Three Stooges, or Forbidden Planet. Yes, I'm an old lady.
You can supposedly get it with VR, but a good setup for that costs a small fortune, and that's assuming you already have a good computer to run it.
The one area where you and I may diverge on the subject of "the death of the movie theater" is where independent and foreign films are concerned. As someone who has been attending local independent film festivals, to me, theaters are still essential to non-studio films. Many films simply won't be seen by the viewing public if they have to rely on streaming services to get eyes on them, and those that do may never make their money back because the corporations that control these streaming services won't pay the creators any more than they absolutely need to and the services' algorithms completely bury anything that doesn't fit their AI programming. Documentaries and foreign films whose studios don't already have deals with US studios suffer the same fate. For every Cannes, Sundance, and SXSW festival - which might as well be considered studio festivals - there are dozens of smaller, regional fests that show amazing indie and foreign films/documentaries that deserve the eyes and hearts of the viewing audience. During the two quarantine COVID years, I attended the Nightstream film festival, which combined five smaller fests under a single virtual umbrella. It was a welcome way to support them and see some great films, but technological limitations were noticeable and I'm sure virtual festivals can be cost-prohibitive for these smaller fests.
While streaming services such as Shudder and Kanopy do great work in their limited capacities, and boutique physical media distributors (Severin, Vinegar Syndrome, Arrow, Radiance, Third Window, etc...and Cthulhu bless DiabolikDVD.com!) pick up a lot of the slack, they aren't the complete answer. I agree with your conclusion that, for studio offerings, the game has irrevocably changed and multiplexes may soon be a thing of the past. But I pray that revival houses (repertory cinema) will continue to live and thrive. I don't want to live in a world where the Brattle Theater, the Coolidge Corner Theater, the New Beverly Theater, and others don't exist...
Yeah, I understand what you’re saying… I actually cried when the UC Theater in Berkeley closed years ago. My friends, kids and I damn near *lived* at that place, and the variety of film festivals I attended there was vast.
But… it’s worth keeping in mind that to get that benefit, one has to live within reach of places like that. Festivals, indie films, rep theaters, etc are often not available in many places. Generally you have to live in at least a small city. There are streaming options (e.g. Curiosity Stream) that can allow you to see tiny films that you would otherwise never encounter. Plus, of course, those of us whose disabilities make going to a theater event prohibitive even if one is available. Even back in my olden days (and yeah, I’m old enough to say that!) a number of the annual film festivals we were lucky to have access to in our major metropolitan area would run many of those films on the local PBS station after the festival was over. I still have VHS tapes of several of them! Removing obstacles to sharing stories is more important than arguing about which avenue is “better.” I’ve experienced lots of different ways of accessing media, and honestly…they’re all better. It just depends on what your needs and options are at any given time.
4:41: and that's the problem. I can get it from the couch. For my physical and mental health, I need every excuse I can to get OFF that luxurious SEDUCTIVE thing.
Convenience to support the megacorporate dystopia, all without any of the personal connection and experience. Yey.
Going to the movies with friends, to me, is very enjoyable. There's the excitement of the new movie, the discussions after the movies on the subways back home, and the joy of being around your friends. Streaming the same movie at home - simply does not have that same flavor. At home, too often you have to pause the movie for something, or you're watching it alone with no one to laugh along with. Yes, there are benefits, but there are also downsides. Mike
The death of the movie theatre is another loss of communal space, streaming is great until you realize that that you haven't seen your friends in months because most communal activies are expensive or non-existent and that because of car centric urbanism and the housing market they all live an hour or more from where you live.
Movie theater goer here, I think what we will miss is the collective experience that can’t be replaced watching at home.
Ultimately yes streaming is better in most situations.
I think theaters will still be around but become very niche
I'm with Steve that the part you're describing is as much as negative as a positive.
For me the part that I will miss most of the theater-going experience is the 72ft-wide screen and the surrond sound that makes your bones shake while delivering crisp and clear dialogue¹. Very few of us can afford a "home theater" that even comes close to delivering that kind of immersion.
¹Skilled movie theater audio technicians are the unsung heroes of the dying industry-I've been to enough movies in rundown theaters, where the audio is horrible, to massively appreciate the cinema showings where the audio engineering is done _well._
The collective experience is only good if everyone is respectful of everyone else’s experience. But I haven’t been to a movie in the last 5 years where there weren’t people on their phones, people talking, babies in the theater, you name it.
I’d much rather spend the money to make as nice of a home theater system as I can get and wait for movies to come out on Max or Amazon.
Hell, even just renting a movie is getting to be as expensive as movie tickets, so I’m not even sure what the solution is anymore.
It's funny how the question of collective experience is all flipped around in a country like Japan. People there don't crave the jostle of crowds! The void in life is not for feelings of shared experience. More often we're all itching for personal space so that in consideration we stay out - so family members enjoy the home to themselves, watch whatever they want on TV, make their own dinner.
Piracy, it's the moral thing to do.
Ahoy, matey!
xkcd 488
The fragmentation of media is really encouraging it. When your friend tells you about a new Apple TV show, but you have Max and Netflix, it gets frustrating fast. If you or a friend have a good, full Plex server then things get easier.
There was a window in the early 2010s where it looked like Netflix and iTunes were beating piracy. For $10/month and a buck a song, you could do anything - faster and easier than "sailing the high seas." Not as much today.
Sorry but how is losing more public places along with ownership of media a good thing?
This is like saying "libraries are dying because the digital only future is better."
Going out is good, nothing beats the experence of seeing a film on the big screen, supporting the community and industry. Sorry if going outside is a little annoying for you but I prefare not to be socially atomized, thank you.
I do agree the prices are bad now and if anything I would like to see things return to pre covid level of pricing and things to be more affordable for people who want to go to the cinema.
One thing we should all remember, is that physical media has a shelf life too, ever try watching a VHS tape on a dusty VCR, that hasn't been plugged in for years? Or how about trying to listen to audio cassettes on a old tape player, or watching a vintage film on a overhead projector, or trying to play an old video game cartridge on an 16 bit console. Surely, we have all experienced the moment, we might have to throw away all of this old media, because it's too old and too corrupted to be enjoyed like it was in the past, I have thrown away dozens of CDs, CD-ROMS, VHS and even DVDs, after they degraded and were taking up storage space, although it is sad to see them expire, I had to learn to let go, so this is my advice - enjoy whatever media while you can, and don't be upset that they are gone, but be happy that such things existed.
Not to mention:
1. We get to set the volume
2. We get access to captioning
3. We have a gourmet (or not) kitchen 10 feet away
4. We have a private bathroom 15 feet away
5. We have a pause button
6. We set the schedule
7. We have a comfortable couch
8. We have alcohol if we wish
9. We have absolute quiet (or not) if we wish
10. We don't have to sit in a giant Petri dish for three hours
11. We save $50 for a much better date night
Agreed.
I should have realized that the dissonance of you praising streaming in front of your wall of physical media was _extremely intentional_ and was going to pay off.
As the kids say: I should know by now to _let you cook._ 👏
it took me a while to wrap my head around it, but just like with the rest of the English language, context is important to know what's being implied/inferred.
I no longer go to movie theaters. I hate the customer experience. They say the movie starts at 7:00 but I have to sit through countless stupid commercial ads, and maybe the movie begins at 8:15. No cartoons, special features or trailers, just the same commercials that I would see at home on TV. Screw that! $20 for popcorn also turns me off.
No way your theatre makes you wait over an hour for the movie to start!?!
@@SpiritRoot
And, yet, that was the norm in the '70s
The main feature was the second reel, after the fifteen minute intermission
The first reel was a mix of trailers, cartoons and PSAs
@@SpiritRootit's hyperbole
the theaters I go to show you 20 minutes of trailers and intro sequences.
And then at 8:17, someone rushes into the theater REEKING of cigarettes and crams in right next to you.
Combine brothels with movie theatres. I’ve been saying this for years.
You just inspired my next business venture: combination brothel/bookshop/music store! All the physical media, baby!
if you thought the seats were sticky Before....
@@souplike.homogenate"This is not gum!"
It's not just the concession prices that are screwing you
Offer the "Feel Around" Experience from "Kentucky Fried Movie"
I agree for the most part. Most of my desire to keep movie theaters around is personal. I love the feel of being there and all but the other reasons are a little bigger. My home movie viewing set up is relatively poor with not a ton of options to change it. The house is all windows so its down right impossible to not watch without a glare. The biggest problem, whoever, is my horrible attention span. At home, theres so many other things to screw with and do. Theaters force me to focus in a comfortable way I cant get at home. The alternative is better in mamy ways but ill definitely miss the old times.
Without theaters, where would Lauren Bobert give her constituents a helping hand?
😂😂😂
This weekend my fridge broke. Sunday night I ordered a new one, it would be delivered wednesday. They called me this (monday) morning if it was okay if they’ld come this afternoon? “Yes please!” This store used to be store front only. The internet came and they adepted and they are still a shop you can visit but in my case thatwould have been really inconvenient. I love that things are this easy nowadays.
My issue with movie theaters is the cost. Its around $100 bucks for 3 tickets, 3 drinks, 1 popcorn and a snack. Its just not worth it. On top of the cost people use their phones or are loud and annoying and the staff doesn't care. The only movies I want to see in theaters these days are the ones that I avoid watching the trailers for or read reviews of. Ones I want to see right away.
I paid to see Black Widow at home day 1 and it was glorious. I wish they had not botched that so badly. I would much rather pay $35 and watch it at home with my family and my snacks then pay $100 for the same thing in a theater.
Eat dinner beforehand. Bring your own snacks and drinks. it's doable with the right methods.
Well, the movie industry can't count on having Barbenheimer every year.
They might have to take an active hand in engineering that.
2:26 I also love book stores - specifically used bookstores but I don't visit book stores as much as I visit movie theaters because when I go to a movie theater I don't bring anything that takes up space into my tiny apartment.
For me, the quality of seeing a movie on the big screen with those massive surround sound speakers is currently impossible to recreate at home. For me, that makes all of the issues worth it…for the right movie
Jeah. We don't just casually go to movies anymore. Now I need a reason for it, and that's usually the music in the movie benefits from the sound system.
If you saved the money you paid for movie tickets to buy better home equipment, you could.
@@KaylakazeI know that going to the movies is expensive, but it's not that expensive. Maybe if one regularly goes often enough, that could be an accurate statement.
My favourite Cineplex theater has a bar and therefore no children are allowed. I don't drink but the no kids has a huge part in me loving that theater. If it closes I will be very sad, I go there every chance I get.
One of my most treasured memories in a theater was when I caught the Mystery Science Theater 3000 movie when I happened to be in Kansas City when it was playing there. Watching MST3K in a theater packed with other MST fans is something I will never forget. I'll miss stuff like that, but as you say, things gotta progress.
Also, pouring one out for Borders. They were my hook-up for British comedy television on VHS back in the day. RIP you magnificent bastard.
MST3K...I never laughed so hard and publicly to anything. I will cherish that memory.
I will also cherish the memory of the audience laughing when Darth Vader said Nooooooo in Revenge of the Sith.
Instant gratification has killed society.
Being able to do things instantly, without leaving your couch doesn't automatically make them better.
Learning to be patient is essential.
I see the challenges while raising my kids.
I worked in a video store back in the day, so I got into the "bad" habit of only seeing "spectacle" movies in the theatre, and waited to everything else (for free), especially comedies and dramas. That habit never ended. But I've stopped seeing even the spectacle movies, because I can't stand the sensory experience anymore. The movies are just too loud for my autistic ears. I can't do it. If the volume went back down to turn of the century levels, I'd go back... but, unfortunately, because of the small fortune it costs at this point, it might only be a single movie a year. 😐
That, and, to me, every loud effect seems to be the same mashing-the-keys sound.
It really is not better, Steve. There are serious limits on availability, there is increased cost, and the community elements . Not saying movie theaters are cheap, but so much of the convenience is part of how badly our society is being run.
For me, it is unequivocally better. Movie theaters are a sensory nightmare. In addition, I grew up and have spent a lot of time living in a rural area, so theaters were far away and availability was seriously limited as a result.
The movie I can watch is better than the movie I can't. Being able to watch without serious sensory issues is even better!
It devalues the content like movies.
It also destroys the funding model for content. If everyone stays home and watches everything on streaming for less then a dollar per hour of content quality eventually has to suffer once the goldrush where streaming services burn billions a year without thought comes to an end.
When I was a kid cartoons were a treat mostly reserved for one day a week. There were the one or two morsels the networks would feed me after school but every Saturday morning from 6 Am to noon it was an animation buffet. Nowadays the buffet is available 24/7 and while being an adult is certainly a factor in why I'm not as passionate about cartoons as I used to be I think an even bigger factor is that they're too readily available. Like candy if you can gorge on cartoons all day every day they cease to be a treat and therefore lose much of their appeal. At least for me.
Same as it ever was. The delivery may change but it always was at the benefit of investors and shareholders. As soon as they demand more returns the experience will suffer. Streaming is already showing characteristics of the cable TV era.
I remember renting DVDs by mail through Netflix. That was so awesome to me in my 20s because I was big into foreign films then and I could practically watch anything I had heard of! I will never forget the excitement of getting those red and white envelopes in the mail and things have only gotten better.
The theater is a very special experience I want back in my life, but I’m broke and exhausted.
I love bookstores. I love checking out the covers, seeing their recommendations, picking a book. I knew it would kill my reading when I switched to iBooks and it did. I love movie theaters but I don’t want to spend all the money anymore. Buying online is wonderful, I love shopping at 3am when can’t sleep. I love funky shops but hate malls and the homogenization of stores. The bad outcome is the separation of people, physically and emotionally.
I weep for the lost movie going experience from decades past. Kids today don't know what they're missing.
I agree that the way we get music and movies is better. However, it makes me sick to my stomach that small businesses are being put out of business because of huge monopolies. I miss small specialty stores which are going extinct.
Steve, I love your stuff and this is the first time I find fully disagree with your premise. I'm going to challenge the assertion that being able to get movies streamed at home is a better experience. It is a fundamentally different experience and IMO even as someone who puts care into my home therater environment it is a fundammentally inferior experience.
Your supporting arguments are not wrong. The industry has massive issues. The capatilism of it all is making things increasingly toxic, and people have fogotten how to exist in public spaces moreso than pre-pandemic. And yes new media distribution is a revelation, I used to be an agressiveuser of alternative digital distribution networks prior to the advent of things like kindle, streaming audio and netflix. When getting what i wanted because easier through more mainstream channels than alternative methods then I happily switched. But Movie theaters, the theater experience? Irreplaceable. The period of the pandemic when I couldn't and wouldn't go to public spaces was hard in part specifically because I coudln't go t the theater, and the first social thing I started doing once fully vaxxed and masked was go to movies again.
I say this as someone who will in heavy relase periods will go to my local theater up to 2 times a week and probably average over the year about 3 theater trips a month at least. I make use of the movie club plans that some chains have availabel to them and i go often enough than I actuall get a good deal. The reason i do this is that even in a very well puttogether home theater setup you are still not in a venue designed for one thing only. When I watch a movie at home from the vast libraries available to me thanks to internet streaming I am in the best circumstances just Watching a movie, in my familiar place, with all my familair distractions. When i go to the thetater to watch a film I am experienceing the movie, in a place i had to plan to go to, make the trip, and commit myself to the experience. I also have the communal experience which is usually quite positive and adds an energy to the experience.
I will say I have seen a significant rise in poor behaviour in other theater goers over the years, mostly in the phone use, light discipline, and talking areas, but still even with as much as I go, I can probably only recount a handful of times a movie was disrupted to the point i remember it happenning. For me the space and the experience, the commitment of the appoiintment viewing, and the trappings are all part of an important rituatl to the medium.
I would argue that theaters are dying because of an industry structure that is deep in the throes of enshitification and trying to squeeze every last dime out of the thing even if it kills it. If the future is just watching movies at home, then the future of the movie experience is NOT better just because of how easy it is.
I'll admit I almost never go to movie theaters, but my experience is that lots of people there are on their phones constantly. So they take their distractions with them.
I'm sorry, Steve. We've taken the Devil's bargain, and we've not got a Dan'l Webster to tell him to take a hike. It's not that we're scared of change or hate change. Streaming as *you* describe it? Yeah, it's an improvement. Streaming as it *exists*? It's a lateral move at best. Never knowing when the thing you're watching is suddenly going to disappear, watching as the prices go up and services that were once ad-free are now "with ads even on premium"? That's not an improvement. That's not the future we want, nor the future we deserve. It's a dystopia, albeit not the worst. And all those movies that we've got on Blu-Ray or DVD, all those songs we've got on CD? The physical media we have? Streaming doesn't create those. You need to download and rip the shows and movies you want if you want to keep them physical.
Streaming is the Devil's bargain, and we didn't read the goddamn thing before we signed it.
Movie theaters like video rentals stores, like Chuck E Cheese like Best Buy, Perkins, Dennys all zombie businesses they exist in some form but are dying.
Best Buy has been the poster child for increasing sales in an online-focused purchasing world for a decade. Might want to try and keep up.
Really? That is surprising. When I want to buy something, I buy it at Costco if they have it. Otherwise from anywhere but best buy. Their return policies are a deal breaker.
@@BlownMacTruckA website using the name recognition of a formerly famous brick and mortar brand isn't the same thing. You might want to try and keep up😂
Being in my mid forties I have to agree. We went from "Be kind, rewind" to where we are now. I've got 2 kids, 9 and 6 and we sometimes go to the movies just for the kids to have an adventure, maybe twice a year. But we do have Movie Night every Saturday. Family gathers, getting Pizza delivered and eating popcorn from a cheap popcorn machine just works so damn well. Am I nostalgic for the olden times? Sometimes. Do I prefer how it's going today? 100%
In the early 70's we had triple feature horror movies for 75 cents tickets prices. We could spend the entire afternoon at the theater! Those were fun days!
I remember seeing Star Wars for $7 at a top-notch theater.
I agree with you times do change but the remnants of the old still be around I still know people that still ride horses to go places from time to time because they enjoy it. I myself do agree with you always have a physical copy of something you enjoy. Says a guy that has to complete showa era of Godzilla on Blu-ray and most of the Ghostbusters films. Hell I still have my world book encyclopedias
GREED killed the movie experience. Cost prohibited for many.
You do realize they don't really make any money from the studios. The refreshments and concession mark up is where they generate their income.
@@privateer236Yeah? So? It's still expensive. Maybe it's greed from the movie studios that's the problem, but the OP's comment still stands.
I just went to see Robot Dreams (highly recommend) in the theater this weekend and guess what? It's the PERFECT TIME to go see movies in the theater because there's a decent chance there will only be a handful of people in it! No crowds! No lines! Woohoo!
I am one of those who has to be dragged into new ways of doing things. I would like to see streaming services treating artists and art with greater care, and I am glad you touched on that.
I feel like that last line could be applied to just about everything in life "instead of giving in to the fear of change, let's embrace it and help to build a better future"
I can remember having a discussion back in 2005 about having a digital library that's easily accessible by typing in a web address and paying a small monthly fee. Little did I know that Netflix would come around not long after that. Now when I tell my 10-year-old daughter about these magical places called video stores where you can go rent a movie for a few days, she looks at me like I'm making this stuff up. A sign of the times I guess.
Borders😢😢
God, I miss Borders. The thing I hate most about _Barnes Ignoble_ is how much I *cling* to it now as the last of the big bookstores.
@@GSBarlev Borders with my wife was for us a weekly thing. Buy a pile of books and a brownie and a drink afterwards. It was our hangout spot 😅. Sadly there's nothing like it here anymore. At least not on that scale. Local places have popped up here there but on the west coast of the island there's none
If you have a 21 foot wide screen and THX sound system that can hit 100db @ 20 hertz in your house then I truly envy you! Since I don't and prefer not to settle for a watered down film experience I'll still see stuff in the theater every time I can. It's dishonest to imply that you can get the same experience at home unless you're pretty damn wealthy. Most of us can't afford to own a home much less construct a purpose built home theater that can rival a movie house. That's my primary practical issue with streaming. Don't get me wrong, I stream stuff because it's convenient and cheap but it's the difference between masturbation and sex with a partner.😉
37 yo. I'm old enough to have been to drive in movies. That's were i saw several jurassic parks and matrix movies. nobody brought their phones because the cords were not that long.
Well lets see:
- Inflation is high so the cost of living is high
- I take my senior father and myself, get 1 adult, 1 senior ticket, a medium drink and my dad large popcorn and a large pop deal, he uses his Scene card and with the deal and senior discount, it still is close to 50$= WTF.
- Streaming services get the movies within weeks of the movie coming out
- The seats at my theatre need more cushioning so they are super uncomfortable :P
In the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone", it is revealed there is no "tee vee" in the 24th Century. Take that, Buck Rogers.
I mean.... they kinda have monitors that can stream all kinds of data trough interplanetary distances.... so what they have is probably just better netflix on steroids.
See, what's mostly died out now for bookstores is the chains - here, Chapters and Indigo wiped out a LOT of indie bookstores in the '90s, but in turn, Chapters basically no longer exists, and its parent company Indigo limps on as a mainly online retailer. But what has sprung up in their absence? Indie bookstores - not a lot, mind you, but there are some. There are also indie video rental stores in some places, and more often, indie music stores selling mostly vinyl.
So, I think that's where movie theatres are headed - the cineplex, a Canadian invention (Historica Canada made a whole Heritage Minute to show that fact off, lol), is what is slowly dying off now. What will survive here and there are the niche indie theatres, most of them housed in older movie theatres, that eke by on public arts funding and ticket prices akin to that of a small theatre production, while acting as a venue for old favourites and newer art house films and, if they have a stage, theatre productions too.
I attended the one such theatre in my city twice this weekend - once with my father to see the Buster Keaton classic "Sherlock Jr." (which I'd seen but Dad hadn't) with a special accompaniment by our hockey team's organist, and then the next day with a friend to see "Serenity" - which we'd both seen before - as part of a fundraiser for the local Fringe festival. The first film was funnier than I'd remembered and was a real treat with the live organist. (I wish they would show more silent films, tbh). The second film was really nice to see on the big screen again - even if it meant being re-traumatized by the sudden death of a certain beloved character. It's also nice to see the film with a bunch of people in a darkened theatre space, for the same reason it's nicer to watch live theatre than to watch a theatre production on TV or streaming.
When I attend another film there is unknown - it might not be till the next film festival it hosts, and it hosts several throughout the year. And when I see a film again in a cineplex is even more cirumspect.
There was also another indie movie house that only recently closed down during the pandemic. I hope it can be resurrected, and its current owners hope for the same, but it faces problems that the theatre that's still open does not. It has two screens to upkeep (though they could scrap the basement screen and convert it to a live theatre-only space, or a bar); the place is a few decades older and was probably a little behind on maintenance when it closed; and it also sits on a busier and probably more heavily-taxed thoroughfare, with even less neighbourhood parking available - and it's also only one km or so away from the still-open theatre, so it's hard for it to compete in any meaningful way. It was also its own enterprise, with no gov't help. The indie theatre that's still open is run by a not-for-profit organization that can obtain gov't funding and sponsorships to keep going and keep ticket costs reasonable.
This is very similar to a conversation that I had with a friend. When I got a job at a co-op grocery store, he said "That's stupid we should get rid of ma & pa stores. Everything should be Amazon". His reasoning was because he can get anything he wanted and nearly always next day. Seems to be convenience over community.
A book ordered on the internet is the same book you'd get at the bookstore. A song streamed sounds the same as it would on a CD. Movie theaters however offer something I can't get at home. I have a very nice, very expensive 4k TV, but the picture and sound still don't compare to the theater. Watching Endgame on opening weekend was an experience. It was in the air. I still think movie theaters have something to offer, and I say that as someone who typically only goes a couple times a year.
I honestly don’t want the theater experience to go away though. I haven’t been to too many theater viewings myself, but it’s such a cool, epic, collective experience and if theaters actually priced things fairly and reorganized into something fitting the modern day, things wouldn’t be as bad I think, still different but, not AS bad
I was born in 2000. I grew up with this platform, this technological paradigm we call the internet. My youth was spent listening to people like you tell me it was the future. You can have it.
You'll always have your memories of going to theaters and bookstores. But what about us? The people who go outside hoping to find a temple of human connection and there's just... nothing. And you want us to just accept that?
I stopped going because half the time my local AMC can't bother to properly calibrate a screening. There was a greater than 50% chance the volume would be deafening and the picture would be so dim you could barely see the damn film, and I finally asked myself why I was paying $20 for that crappy experience.
it’s just kind of weird that the ways that things get “better” are always individualized and personal, and scale horribly inefficiently.
Like you have to have your own nice tv and sound system and interruption controls (like sounds of the outside world/passers by or light changes), set-up for food and drinks and sitting arrangements.
And this is a lot for just one or two people… but then if you want to do this activity socially, like with multiple people, at least one of you would need all of this that can conveniently accommodate your Sofia group and friends, who also have to be able to get to this place in a reasonably inexpensive and timely manner, with lives that do not place demands on their time that are so wildly different and inflexible.
I fundamentally disagree about movie theaters. I wouldn’t want to see the premiere of a movie if I wasn’t with a crowd of people. The thing I love about movies- heck, about stories- is that they literally bring people together. They are one of the last communal experiences we have. Standing in line to get that popcorn is part of that communal experience. It is one more exercise in social cohesion that we don’t get in the streaming world. We in 2024 have enough reasons to never leave our couches: to work, to interact with friends, or to be entertained. That is why I will always try to see movie premieres in theaters, and on the biggest screen possible.
I agree with you for the most part, however the analogy is flawed. The analogue of the bookstore is the video store, not a movie theatre. The act of reading a book is inherently a personal, not communal one. Music _concerts_ didn't stop happening because of spotify and apple music, music _stores_ did.
Outside of a very specific subset of films the audience doesn't see the same value in that they once did. Movie theatres can do everything they can think of to try and enhance the experience _around_ the movie all they want, but they are the venue, not the performer, they have no control over what studios produce or release.
But I fully agree with your main point. As someone who ran a movie theatre for many years, the culture has changed. People treat it like their living room, you have no idea how many times I've seen 40-60% of people in an auditorium on their phone or just chatting away like they and their friends are the only ones there, even for the big tent-pole releases you'd expect people would be locked into.
For some reason, we, as a society, have decided there is little to no value in a communal movie watching experience. And so, you are 100% correct that these giant chains need to die and let it become a niche industry for those who actually do value that sort of experience.
Not having to leave the house for many activities, making purchases or just browsing etc. is part of the reason why I stopped partaking in some of those activities altogether.
I can't say that I love sitting right next to a stranger in a movie theater and listening to him munching on his popcorn or getting the jokes 5 seconds after everybody else did. But I do enjoy having a reason to go somewhere else other than my living room, spending time at those destinations and seeing people who came there for that same reason as I.
I watch fewer movies, listen to less music and read fewer books than I did in the past because there are fewer and fewer public spaces for me to go to.
Try the library.
The big thing for me is the growing realization is when I go to a movie theatre with digital projection, I am just seeing an expensive version of of digital projection TV in a big dark room, nothing essentially different from my TV at home. At least when it was filmstock, it was a different experience on that fundamental level.
Here's a very, very simple way to save movie theaters. And they're not going to do it, but it's an incredibly simple thing, really. It's really crazy, I tell ya.
*You make the popcorn and sodas free or nearly free. Then you lower the price of going to a movie.*
There. I saved the movie theaters. There's the advice that will bring the movie theaters roaring back.
Now, are they going to do that? Nah. No, they won't. That's how they make the profit margin they do. Soda and Popcorn is extremely cheap, so we sell it at a massive upcharge. So massive that it doesn't make any sense to charge 10 bucks for a tub of popcorn.
Movie theaters are failing because they're too expensive to go to. It used to be something I could do once a week, because it was about six or seven bucks a movie ticket. Now? Now, with my girlfriend, I'm lucky to avoid at least fifty dollars on a single movie.
Truth. Movie theatres aren’t affordable
Unfortunately, the film companies made it so theatres earn very little from the movies themselves. Their major source of profit IS the snacks. Without them, they largely would go bankrupt.
Movie theaters see no money from ticket sales in the beginning of a movie's run; all that money goes to the studios. After a while, anywhere from 2 weeks up to 6 weeks (for a blockbuster), they get to share in the ticket sales- right when the films' popularity start dropping.
This is why super cheap to make popcorn is the movie theater staple. Theaters survive on concessions.
I really like the convenience of the kindle, but I also really like the adventure and shared experience of a bookstore.
I wouldn’t say that capitalism killed the theater, it’s simply moved on. There are fewer ‘big box’ stores than the height of the ‘00’s and I’m okay with that. Do I miss Borders, Toys ‘R’ Us, ‘The Mall’? As a child of the ‘80s spoon fed consumerism, you bet your ass. As an adult who understands the poison of capitalism, I appreciate my FLGS, the small friendly bookstore, and the local restaurants that pump money back into my neighborhood. In my town we have two thriving, small theaters (one shows movies outside in the local park throughout summer and fall on the weekends).
I appreciate those curated, intimate experiences along with the ease of our digital world.
I think any type of movie theater or store that survives in the future will have to be small. The overhead will be low. There will have to be some sort of connection to technology. One or two screen movie theaters that have a food bar or lounge in the theater itself that show both the latest films and classics will most likely survive especially if people can get there on foot or drive a short distance.
The main advantage to doing things old(er) school is interaction. If you wanted to see a movie with friends or family, you had to learn how to negotiate, how to plan ahead so that you had enough time and money, how to play the game so you knew when you were being ripped off and how to deal with the party doing it, how to mind your manners, and how to enjoy the experience in the moment. In other words, how to be human. You can’t learn that sitting on your couch staring at a screen. That’s just a simulation. You want the real thing, you have to get off your ass and do the work.
I have over 500 movies at home so I could start my own streaming service🤣!
I mean yeah. I highly recommend setting up a Jellyfin instance if only to lessen the wear on your physical copies.
Buying a NAS and storing all of them on it, it's straight forward to make the NAS be your local stream service. And simpler still if you're fine with no needing access to that streaming service when you aren't home.
… until the major studios get wind of it and start coming after you for copyright infringement and royalties
Paper books have resisted quite well when compared to other forms of entertainment. There's just something about them that most people cannot let go of.
"I'm only 44!"
Damnit Steve, I'll be 47 on Friday. You're making me feel old!
Quit yer whinging, whippersnappers! 🙄
- fellow commenter turning 63 on Saturday!
I'm going to disagree a bit with you. The places you get books and music and movies are not better. They're more convenient for you, but that doesn't make them better. They're not better for the artists either, those services have done everything they can to funnel more of the money for music, books, and movies into the owner of the services that provide them at the expense of taking that out of the pockets of the artists that created them.
3D did a lot to keep me out of movie theatres before Covid hit.
A good way to make the experience worse.
What we have now is certainly more efficient. But that really doesn't make it better by itself. The public spaces shared should be a way to connect with other people, plus it's nice to have a space for an event that no one has to host at their own house.
Television and streaming has just gotten so good that they really have to make a movie that people feel is worth leaving the house for
I go to the movies for the sound system. I'm thinking mad max fury road, for example.
there is only 2 or 3 shows I watch on services no reason to stay home and watch fucking garbage at home
Yeah, "prestige TV" has made me realize how limiting the 90-minute film is as an artistic format. Okay, so you have a compelling story, but one that only needs one sitting to tell?
Like, sure. Plays have always been a thing, but even as literature, they're fundamentally different (and usually, for me, less compelling and immerse) than novels. And I love the fact that novels get TV adaptations now instead of film condensations.
I saw Furiosa yesterday and seeing it in the theater with their sound system was awesome
@@MarkkuSFunny; one of the reasons I _avoid_ movie theaters because of the sound system. Way too loud.
Blu Ray players actually have a built-in mechanism to allow studios to cancel the keys for older discs, and cause your player to refuse to play them. So I wouldn't be too confident they can't come into your house and effectively take them away.
Which is one of the reasons I never switched to Blu-Ray.
And with DVD's becomming rarer and rarer, I'd say that as always, piracy ends up unfortunately in the vanguard of preservation again.
It's actually the other way around. It's not discs they can cancel the keys for, but players. If a particular player's decryption key gets made public, they cancel that key on future discs, so people using "unauthorised" players utilising that key can't play them. If your player happened to be the same model that the key got ripped from, you end up as collateral damage. Pirates, of course, find other workarounds to make their rips. Yet another example of how DRM only harms the paying customer.
I don’t agree with your bookstore analogy. You don’t just go to a theater to “get” a movie, you go there to experience it. It is a qualitatively different process from watching one at home. When you read the actual book, it doesn’t make any difference whether you purchased it at a bookstore or online.