How to Pour Shower Pan Correctly!!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.พ. 2017
- Welcome! And thank you for coming.
Let's learn how to pour a shower pan shall we?
Here is a link to part 2, where the camera dies, if you would like to see how the curb is filled, and the liner cut.
• How to Pour a Shower P...
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I have 20+years of experience and i uave to say this is one of a few videos that the guy actually knows what he is doing!!👍👍
Whatever he has no backing
You sir, are a godsend! This is hands down the best instructional on this subject I have found on TH-cam. Very accessible and easy to understand without a lot if verbal clutter. As someone who is building their own home and having to do a lot myself to save money, this was a big help. Thanks!!!
My pleasure!
Excellent work!!
Great Technique/Design/Execution! Very elegant. Quick/Solid/Strong! Much Thanks.
Outstanding instructional video!
Thank you so much! This is how I did my last one , only I had concrete subfloor
Great lesson and totally out of my league. I need one done in Fort Myers, Florida. If anyone is on here and in that area or knows someone here please comment here.
Great video. Thanks!
Great Job!
Thanks for the video. How do you trim excess liner in the inner corners by the curb?
Finally an inside pan Corner folded correctly although I don't agree with the way you did your curb but it will definitely work with waterproofing
I think the fold was wrong, watched twice. His way, water can travel in the fold and migrate out of the pan. Just my thughts. Have been doing tile since 83, many many rodded off fat mud shower walls and dry pack mud shower pans. Concrete block or brick curbs and benches. Not this sandwiched vinyl pan crap between 2 layers of dry pack mud. Where is the structural integrity? But overall its passable, getting right on top of the fresh prefloat negates the purpose of the prefloat as it creates dimples in the prefloat, thus low spots for water to pond on as it migrates through grout, mud bed, runs down hill following sloped pan to flange weep holes. Low spots lets water pond, over time calcium, hard water can erupt through grout joints. Plus I even put my pebbles on top of the flange as there are small weep holes there too that if plugged with dry pack will eventually plug with the hard minerals, calcium, lime, iron and not let water pass them. Just another line of defense to help the drain system work for many years. .
Finally someone knows what their doing . Slope before the waterproofing.
Thanks for the video man
Thanks for sharing all the steps in detail. Do we have to wait for pre-slope to cure before putting shower liner ( at 5:41 )
This is the best tutorial I’ve seen
Thanks Kendra!
Never use this style....use Wedi or Schluter Kerdi...no mortar requred .very very old style suspect to fail....never use mortar...prehistoric !!
Finally someone who knows how to do a mud pan, pre slope and all...great job guys and that's precisely how to do a curb! Need more real tile guys like this on TH-cam....
Thank you!
Whats the thing you used to sorta water proff the pre slope?
How many hours after leveling muds we can setup tiles?
Great job
Love how you take your time and pitch that floor ever so perfect...I'm down with that
music too.
Great video! Question: why lay the concrete so dry? Is there a purpose to that?
I'm sorry I watched the second video first. I've done this since 1976. You have too much pitch. A mud pan pre-slope doesn't has to be a crater. Mud pre-slope should have tar paper or plastic and wire. You have the technique down yet your pitch is to high. 1/4 per foot not 1/2. If you raise a 8 foot pitch at 1/2 inch it will be 4 inches high at the curb. Your curb is just the silliest thing I've ever seen. The pan goes up and over the wood. The curb is on top of that.
Now I'm going to tell you something . If you use Rapid set Mortar for your curb it will go faster and you can finish it in a hour.
Sure you got your math right on that? If the drain is centered, you'd have 8' in both directions from the center drain for it to rise 4" using 1/2"/ft. I doubt many people watching this will ever do a 16' long shower! If you are, wouldn't you be better off using multiple drains/slopes since it's basically a locker room and would have multiple shower heads and a ton of water to drain? And in fairness, he did say 1/4" to 1/2"/ft. Large showers, I definitely lean towards 1/4"/ft. However, I just did a small shower, 32 (plus 3" curb) x 48 . In a shower that size, 1/2" slope only makes it 1" rise from center to long end. For this small one I went with 3/8"/ft, but either way would be fine.
Fast seting thinset doesnt stick men
Aaron's curb construction makes a lot more sense to me than the traditional liner over the sides and top of wood 2x4's where the awkward corner folds have to be cut, creating a potential leak source that too often rots out the curb. Those glue on inside corners sold to prevent that are not reliable. His design has no cuts at the corners and the liner extends upward higher than water could ever go. The inside of his curb can be considered wet, while the outside is separated by the liner and will always be dry. One could add some mesh tied into the sidewalls for extra security, but other than that it seems like a perfect design to me.
Very good 💯
My opinion is there should be a barrier between plywood and pre-slope mesh and mud. Most drains are set even with wood which prevents. So I use a modified thinset then mud bed. This makes excellent bond and binds the mortar. Otherwise as it was done it can crack up theoretically I understand it’s stuck there and you say where will it go if it cracks up. Probably no where. So why not just use plain sand then. 🤓
Will try this.
I put cedar shake shims on the perimeter guiding the thin side towards drain which gives you about 3/8 of an inch to nothing pitching towards the drain.then you screw a 3/8 or 1/2 playwood on top of it .the plywood follow the shims pitch so all you need to do is install liner then the concrete
Interesting way to do it!
@@ATritt My thought was wtf
very helpful
Nice work...I have a 25 year old mud job (no leaks or cracks) but the 1"x1" ceramic mosaic tile is butt ugly...Can I remove and replace the tile without disrupting the mud underneath? The tile was set in a thin layer of grout on top of the mud. I never liked the job as the thin layer of white grout the tile was set in shows some dark (mudjob) showing through.
Generally yes, that is possible. You may need to skim coat the pan again with thinset, so the new tile is flat. Also, if the drain is adjustable still, you can scarify the existing mosaic, clean it, and set directly to it as well.
Do you use the same sand topping mix and consistency for both the preslope and the final mix that goes on top of the vinyl liner?
I do indeed.
Great tutorial. Do I have to do a pre slope on the first concrete base since I will do it over the liner? Thank you
Yes you do. Any water that gets to the liner needs to flow down and towards the drain . If your first layer isn't sloped water will pool on the liner
No it won’t pool you don’t need to pre Slope at all , water that leaks through tile and grout will just disintegrate mortar over time
dennisphoenix1 no you don’t... especially if you seal it with redgard or aquaDefense.
Would love to seen you protect you wood floor from moisture, before putting wet sand mix on it. Also, I always installed blocking between the studs to minimize the possibility of having in movement around base of the wall tiles.
Don't forget about the fact there is nothing bonding the mortar to the substrate which isn't the ideal wood in my opinion. But I've only been doing this since 1987
THANK YOU!! FINALLY a simple diagram showing the proper relationship between all the elements of a shower pan!!
I couldn’t find any of the mortars at my local store u had listed I found something called spec v will this work
5 parts sand one part Portland cement
Great video...what was the first song?lol
Not sold on the pre-slope. How could water find it's way to the drain between the liner and the mortar bed without wicking into the mortar before? Unless a thumb-sized hole is present I just don't see it. Agreed about the lining on subfloor prior to mortar bed.
Nicely done.
Thats the point of the pre-sloped float. If there is a hole in the pan and the floor is flat the water will make its way out the hole over the years. A prefloat compells the water to run down hill past the hole and never pond on say warped oxb plywood substrate 12" x 12"wide dip or such. I say stay off the prefloat while its fresh or one causes dimples under the pan in the prefloat, thus the ponding issue is brought back into the equation. Agree with you to protect the raw wood, I always put down detri-mat or kerdi to prevent even the plywood sheets from cracking up, heaving and damaging mud bed. But I dont use the vinyl pan anymore, use the Mapei Aqua Defense etc. type waterproofing membranes for a pan. Way more versatile than trying to bend a vinyl pan on ADA applications, curbless showers, etc. I have not installed a vinyl pan in I dont remember how long, 20 years? 1st was the Mapei PRP-315 2 part pan, now the paintable ones, all good when applied to the right mil thickness. They dont make cars like they did 100 years ago, time to embrace new technology.
I hope Bob with star tile watches this video, he is so against a pre slope. Way better than I've seen others do.
Bob doesnt do his showers correctly either...
@@chipburns4123 ,hey man ,I've done tile for about 40 years, takes pride and time to give a quality job. But Bob needs to cut grass or paint
@@jamesderbaum9678 yeah. Ive been doing it for only 6 years but I got a lot of trades under my belt which help out when doing tile in a lot of cases. Ive been injured several times from roofing and the military so now that Im older I think tile is just about all I can do now. I like doing showers and my work turns out really good. I want to keep moving up and thats why Im always watching these videos.
@@chipburns4123 be sure never use treated lumber, it swells ,which will crack joints and tile, I my self I'm fighting cancer, what a fight... Wish I could show you trade methods.
@@jamesderbaum9678 sorry to hear that. I wish you could show me. I have a full time job doing mostly showers but 100% tile. Nobody else in the company is “great” and I can only learn from watching TH-cam videos. In one way its nice bc I work alone 99% of the time but Im always stressed. So far everything Ive done has come out wonderful and Im not just saying that lol
Hey I have a 10' ceiling and my durarick is only 8'. Do I need to go all the way up?
It is best to go all the way to the ceiling with cement board. It likely won't be an issue to leave painted water resistant drywall above the waterline. However, it ends up being easier to shim the wall board properly if all existing is removed, and then for replacement, may as well use the properly rated backerboard. Good luck!
A professional mud floor!
just install a preformed pan and tile it..easy peasy..lol
Arron, not understanding what is happening with the liner at the curb, you said put mortar between outer form and liner along with mortar between inner form and liner.
What keeps the outer layer of mortar from just peeling or flaking off, what am I missing?
BTW, your method is the best I've seen so far..thx!
I'm curious about this, too. I don't think I've ever seen it done this way and I don't know enough to even try to figure out what you're accomplishing.
Generally, the mortar on the outside of the liner is strong by itself. It is bonded to both side walls, and the floor as well. After that, either the solid surface material, or the tile spans the liner joint. If you want to be doubly sure that it all stays together, I would say it couldn't hurt to use some alkaline resistant mesh tape over the 'cold joint' when mortaring tile down.
@@ATritt What about tacking mesh on the inside edge of the 2x6 outer form, kinda like stucco guys used to do and having it embed in the concrete outside of the membrane?
@@PDXcitablethat is how I learned to do it
How can the drain work when you cover ed up the weep holes with the membrane and caulk?
The membrane sits in between the flange. The weep holes runs on top and in between the flange through the threads. It took some thinking for me to figure how it works.
The flange actually has a circle track specifically for the silicone so that it does not interfere with weep holes
Never use this style....use Wedi or Schluter Kerdi...no mortar requred .very very old style suspect to fail....never use mortar...prehistoric !!
@@Mrcrisis2012 So use it sometimes
@@genatorbol no never use this method...very stupid
It would be good if you can cut 1by2 strip of wood and pitch it down the drain, cut it so its thinner as u go.
How would I do this when my drain is a few inches from the curb? I bought the pre pitch kit and quick pitch kit but seems that the perimeter will be a lot lower near the curb.
B415-16 requires a membrane on walls in some situations. The amount of moisture in a dry pack mortar will not rot wood in an arid climate, as it is, in my area. Certainly in an area where relative humidity is high, a tar paper or equivalent wouldn't hurt. Thank you for your opinion!
The curing and chemical process of concrete will wick it’s just the nature of monolithic casting.
How much and what type of material do you use for mud? Could you give us specific amount of each ingredients?
You can buy it already bagged at Home Depot, Lowes etc. Its called sand topping mix, deck mud etc. If you make it raw use 40 shovels of masonary sand and 1 bag of portland cement. Divide it back for smaller batches. Mix it dry with a hoe and shovel. Then add the water. Should be the consistency of a snowball, stays together when packed in hand, when hand opens it does not crumble apart. Its so dry to permit shaping and not like a blob of jello that gets all pushed around and is difficult to contour. To make cement for the walls buy bagged mortar mix or do the 40 shovels of masonary sand, 1 bag of portland cement and 1/2 bag of lime.
thank you so much ....sir.
Is the first dry pack necessary if you are doing this on a slab? Thanks.
That a question I had . As tedious as it was I actually chiseled out my concrete foundation to attain a 1/4 inch per foot for the pre slope. I regained the height of the shower flooring ( some) by pouring a 1 and a 1/2 mud base on the liner. At the drain end ( tub to shower conversion) the floor level was back to where it was and at the far end ( I removed a 60 inch tub) the flooring was an inch and a half above the original foundation floor level. I installed a curb for this installation.
Hey i have seen people use a awire mesh is that necessary?
Yes, he's doing it wrong
also tarpaper or something similar, which is more important than the wire in this situation
@@erickbad2000 thanks
I had cultured marble shower walls including the base. The base had a fiberglass lip that extended about 6 inches above the pan. No grout, a solid cultured marble wall. I hate grout because it will eventually fail and need to be regrouted and is a pain to clean.
I can screw the pan liner in instead of using glue?
If you use glue, it will virtually be impossible to mold the liner where you want it and have it stay.
If I put in a like this where I live, it would fail inspection
Where is this even legal to do this ? A shower pan is required to be between the wood and concrete or mortor where I'm from. This can't be legal in other states .
Concrete or mortar should NEVER touch wood directly. Concrete sweets and will cause rot. That is well known in the industry. I only say this to help. Everything else looks good.
unless wood is treated...
concrete should never touch wood directly in structural conditions yes that is well known in the industry but there is nothing wrong with using a modified thin set which has latex polymers in it as a pre slope base over plywood.
What is the need for preslope? Completely unnecessary.
Am sorry but you have the right to do it your way. I do showers and that to me was not the proper way. Again completely unnecessary.
@@TheBinaW a pre slope is to guide the water that might make its way down to the liner towards the drain. If you don't have a preslope, the liner will sit flat on the plywood and create mold. So you never want the water to sit flat in a shower. Hope this answer your question. A pre slope is absolutely necessary.
Help please; I'm not quite getting the curb. At 10:41, the inner curb is poured 1-1/2" higher than the pan, and you say the outer curb is poured 1/4" higher than that. How do you get from there to a finished curb shown at 10:45? What happens to the bunched up liner material in the corners of the curb? That is gone at 10:45. Is the finished curb height 1-1/2" above the pan surface on the inside or is it built up more when finished? Shame your camera battery dies during that critical segment!
His curb is not done the right way and this will cause leaks later. Check out other videos where the liner is installed OVER the curb, NOT half way inside it
yup you lost me too, do you leave the guild for the pre slope in?
@@sapulpaorganics5402 He installed a concrete curb............not a wood curb............the wood is just a form for the cement!!!!
Where's the pan liner
Pan inside curb ... only one I seen done correctly
Exactly
Too bad you did not get to film the end of the curve,i am a little confused there.
I pour pans all the time, and will add a link soon with the curb detail shown more clearly for you.
@@ATritt Nice! Thank you!
One thing I notices in most of these vidoes is the thickness of the liner. In this video he is using Richpan that is 1MM.(according to web specs) vs the 40 MM sold in home stores. 40MM (I can attest to is quite a bit harder to maneuver).
My shower pan and shower turned out just fine but I"M JUST SAY"N.
Ummm... actually what you are seeing in stores is not 40 millimeters (which would be 1.6 inches thick !!!) but rather 40 mils, which is 40 thousandths of an inch. That's equivalent to 1.016 millimeters, which is exactly the same as what he is installing (within manufacturing tolerances).
Great video. Maybe a longer t-shirt for the next video? We don't need to know "all" of your business. ;)
Ha! Fair enough.
He should do boxers only video😉
I ain’t no expert but this ain’t the right way! My man just put dry pack concrete mix which has water in it on to bare wood. Guess where that water is going as the concrete mix dries out? You into the wood subfloor. Great job making a 5 year shower!
Good job. Sweet undies :)
Bet it leaks with the way he's done it. I'm old school but his methods are kinda wacked?
Where are you betting it leaks? Can you be more specific?
I bet you don’t know what you’re talking about, change our mind.
All this technical data and drawings but the drain isnt even centered. 😂😂😂
The very part I came here to see ...That I needed help on was not there because your camera died.
Pour a shower pan?
Do I need to wear Under Armour underwear or is Fruit of the Loom ok for it not to leak?
Either brand is fine. Your belt however should be tight enough to keep the butt crack at bay.
I've been using Fruit of the Loom for years, I haven't had any leaks.
I do not recommend this method for a first timer. This approach to building a curb, is not for someone new to this type of construction. Also, with the dead battery and all, how was the inside of the curb formed to meet the outside elevation? Some of the shaping methods were useful though.
Yeah, this method takes some practice. I'll have a curb detail up soon, to show how I do the curb. It was a bummer that the battery died.
dude,skip the tunes
No Starr tile my opinion stands on you...
No weep holes
There are weep holes in the drain body.
That curb will leak.
Send this video to Starr tile lol
Funny how the internet works, just stumbled on this video and both of your comments and I have to say this is the worst prep I have ever seen, I counted at least 12 things that were done incorrectly, and putting in a preslope will not help the mistakes.
That you guys think this was a great job tells me the lack of knowledge that you have that has anything to do with showers, which diminishes your opinion of me 100%👍
StarrTile I am doing a complete renovation for my mom,s small shower
And I have watched tons of ur videos.
I recall u said doing a full circle cut is a big Nono on the drain . I believe it was one of ur “failed bathroom” leaking problem
I trust starrtile way more than this guy. Doing my bathroom now and I’m following all his advice.
and then u dumped mortar between the liner and curb? wack ass shower curb at that SMH>... dont do anymore showers.
He didn't even go up and over curb to seal water into shower
Liner is brought up the middle of the curb and cut off even. Then you waterproof the whole top and and down the inside part of curb. No need to go up and over. Your shower door sits right in the middle of curb and any water that could possibly pass through the water proofing still ends up in the liner
@@stlbowfishing1661 in the state of Texas it is required by code that you go up and over curb
Sure did...with the paint on waterproofing. This goes on top of the sloped concrete curb and works properly. Of course there are many ways to accomplish the same thing. One could also use preformed outside corners and metal lathe, then a scratch coat. I like this better, as the waterproof layer doesn't have as much thickness of mortar for the water to weep through capillary action.
xxPOINT BLANKxx New York also
The liner is inside the cement! It will not leak. I promise you, the wood is the form that you remove when the curb is dry and cut off the excess liner...basic stuff here.
Your curb is going to fail
coze he didn't put any 2x4s and drive handful of nails in the membrane ?
Your shower pan looked great,until you got to the curb.it should wrap over the top,fold down to the floor 🙈
No, he did it right, way better to have the liner inside cement curb like that rather than a wood curb that it rapped with the liner. This way will last way long. This is how I have always done them.
The curb is wrong and WILL create leaks later.....other than that nice video!
I'd like to know why you think this is wrong and why you think it will leak? I assure you other than the old school lathe and mud method this is the most solid, durable and waterproof method of doing the curb. I tend to pack it first then do the pan but basically the same method.
So many things wrong with this video, why did you not wrap your curb with pan liner also your curb should not be 1 2x6. Also you should install 2x6s between your studs at the base so your pan liner doesn't seep between your studs and your tile wall has something to rest on.
Did you catch that the curb is solid concrete and the 2x6 is just used as an outside form and is only temporary?
Totally disagree with this most of this video .Bob from star light would light this one up.
Broken wing. Must be a knucklehead
The way your liner and curb are built together is a terrible idea and plain wrong.
Wrong
Roofing nails are garbage. They pull out.
WTF did I just watch?????
So wrong lol the tile guy will hate you
Nice Shit...
Make your video with all the perfect details and then you will see that there is always someone who criticizes you.
It is the internet! I am happy to put it out there for those who it can help.
Nice can you show how you install hardie cement board?
@@meenakshis9766 I'm doing a shower or two in the next week, and will happily make one for you.
sorry my friend, you do a job like that for me, I would have to fire you.
Please elaborate mr. internet know-all. Enlighten us with your expertise.
This method he used for the curb is the best method out there. No holes in the liner trying to put on durrock. Only thing I do to make it easier is but easy curb from The TIle Shop. It’s preformed plastic that you insert the liner in between and fill both sides with mud. After it’s dry no need to remove anything just time over.
Lol, your music is too much, my wife just asked me if I was watching to soft pron.
@@kalikasurf good point!
Your music is too damn loud.
Way too much get real.... nice beard though
This will never last and I’ll give it 5 to 7 years before it needs to be redone. The only thing that I’ll say I agree with is taping the floor drain. The rest is I’m sorry to say unprofessional!
Okay keyboard warrior, you know everything about shower pans. I'm sure your way is the only way. This will last for 50 years no problem
Never use this style....use Wedi or Schluter Kerdi...no mortar requred .very very old style suspect to fail....never use mortar...prehistoric !!
kinda funny I've been watching video after video and the failed shower pans are always the new foam ones professionally installed or not
@@handydandyhomes NO....mortar pans are the oldschool garbage...the foam core base and sides is the only way to go !!!
@@Mrcrisis2012 just saying the videos I have watched all of them foam ,wedi , kurdi so on im sure there are mortar pan failures just from what I've been watching its all foam failures professionally installed