ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- OH DANGGGGG this was crazy to do! Like I said I hope no one gets offended and I hope no one comes to flame me lol this was just my opinion and I respect everyone's thoughts and stance on this issue.
Here is the forum post that I read and really found interesting- www.denofangels...
Another good post-
www.denofangels...
Thanks again peeps and I hope you all give your own opinions in a video response or respond to the original video in the comments section :)
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Hi friends, my name is Asenva and I have been in the hobby for 10+ years! I have over 30 different dolls and run a huge BJD community called BJD Addicts on Facebook with over 15,000 members!
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Neither side should be demonized, but cruel behavior should always be ostracized, no matter which stance you take.
I am working on creating my very own line of bjd dolls to sell.
If someone were to recast my dolls and sell at a lower price, I wouldn't be able to stay in business.
A bjd doll company has to make every doll they sell.
If you want new wonderful dolls to be created then never buy a recast.
If you are low on cash buying a used bjd doll is a good option.
David Mc Thank you so much for your input :D I appreciate it:D
but recast can afford to those who have no means to pay big money for a piece on the secondary market plastika..dazhe BJD dolls are very expensive and all sorts of certificates in fact very few people are needed only in the sale! and the yellow and green doll equally regardless of whether they are originals or copies ..
I bought a luts kid delf a couple of years ago off some online store. IDK IF ITS A RECAST OR NOT!! It's the same price of the company store but the wrong sculpt. I ordered a Darae but i got a lemon. I still lover her
I agree with you. I create my own character using wax and clay heads and bodies. Then I make the molds. If someone recast my doll I would be pissed.
Thanks for sharing :)
Recast dolls typically arrive faster than their legit counterparts, good quality ones tend to be about a third of the cost of the original and you can get some practice ones for far less. You don't have to worry as much when modding a recast head as they typically cost around $15.00 rather than the $100+ you might pay for a secondhand SD head. Unlike secondhand dolls, they won't have yellowed at all and people are more likely to be ripped off with doll sold as unyellowed rather than by a
I unknowingly bought a recast doll chateau Elizabeth...when I saw her auction listing on ebay, I thought she was a second or third hand, because her price was a third of the listing on doll chateau. when she came in, I noticed that she didn't have the doll chateau seal on the back of her head. I feel guilty that I have her, but I still love her. She stays at home in her box when I take my others out, as I feel ashamed that I didn't realize before.
Harmony Hawthorn don't feel shame for your doll. Every doll made deserves love and you are her new owner. take care of her and make her your own but don't let someone shame you or make you feel shame because she's around.
C00kii0 Thank you for your kind response!
You are a very kind and considerate individual, even we may disagree with something doesn’t mean we have to scream at each other. I like your attitude. Lots!
Thank you for this video Asenva, I think you communicated this topic very cooly and with alot of wisdom :) Since I'm not very well off in terms of money the idea of a recast has tempted me, but deep down I really am in agreement with you. I've waited 8 years quietly admiring this hobby and I agree that if you want something badly you will wait and work to get it. I've already waited this long! XD Thanks again Asenva
The subject of recasts is a touchy one. I am personally for recasts, I understand why people are against them and the arguments against them. Yes, it's stealing from the company, however if you've ever looked into which companies are being recast.. They won't miss the money. Fairyland, Soom, Volks, slightly smaller companies, but I've never seen any from very small companies as prices aren't that high in the first place... The quality is often incredible and I just can't justify the money spent.
Thank you so much for your lovely comment :) I appreciate it :)
other options to go with rather than buying and essentially adding profit to recasting companies :) Thank you so much for your comment! I truly value it and I loveeee how people are stating their beliefs and thoughts on this issue :) thank you so much! You rock!
Thank you SO much for taking the time to explain this! It seems everywhere you go there is a rule preventing you from talking about recasts at all. If you are new to the community you can't even ask what a recast is, which I think adds to the problem. This is kind of like buying stuffies at a convention. If I have never seen the "original" I will not know this one is not the 'real' item. So I'm sure many people may buy a recast not ever knowing. Just like I don't know all the brands out there. I would see a doll that doesn't break the bank and not think another thing of it, and might never know.
it know one's business what we buy. some can not afford to buy a real one. but still want to be part of the bjd world.
:) thanks for sharing
Thanks for having a level headed opinion on a complicated issue!
Thanks for watching :D
Aww thanks so much for watching :D I am super glad if I could help out in any way XD Thanks a bunch!!
Thank you so much for your comment :)
I respectfully disagree; it’s exactly oranges vs. oranges. Recasting a model that’s no longer available even in the second hand market is just the same as you are downloading a song that is no longer available in CD. In both cases the original creator is not getting any benefits from the action; it’s the recaster and the one who upload the song who are benefitted.
Please don’t tell me you have absolutely no idea how the one who upload the materials are benefited from his action.
Oh you are totally right about calling the kettle black and such. Recasting does effect the market because they are being produced and sold. Second hand dolls being sold means that money is given to the company and then put on the market place. The money that was used in the first place is getting shifted around. Going the other way through recastings means that money is being poured into somewhere it is not supposed to. Meaning continued profit is made and the original company is at a loss.
Thank you for this information.. I thought I was starting to "know it all" with bjd. Or as much as a newbie could take in, but recast I didn't understand it very much. Your channel is helpful even more so the addict prompt series you've started.
Super interesting points :) Butttt as far as modifications go, modifying your dolls is a risk in itself which is why we research and see what others do. When you gain that confidence you jump. I was scared that I would screw up my Dollzone Lotus because I wanted to pierce her ears (lol and that was just ear piercing) but I knew it was a risk that I wanted to take. I know people that also just buy second hand dolls or practice on different (more affordable) dolls for mods .There are many
Thank you so much for sharing your opinion and watching my video :D
Thank you so much for your opinon :3 It is true that it is totally not worth losing friends for and what not.
Thank ya so much for watching X3
Thank you so much for your comment! I appreciate your thoughts :)
because I buy a recast doesn't mean I have no intentions of supportting the original artists. And as for selling the recasts, I would never do so personally. I hate getting ripped off, and the thought of doing that to another person sickens me. Thank you for sharing your opinion, it is very well stated and non-confrontational :D
Sometimes, you have your heart set on a particular doll in a specific colour, and no matter how much you save, or how long you wait, you will never be able to buy a legitimate version of that doll in the right colour. While you could dye it, the results are unpredictable at best and you can't predict how even the skintone will be. Dyed dolls frequently chip especially around the joints and it is difficult to get the exact shade you want.
Thank you thank you :3 yeahhhh I was kinda nervous about it too lolol but I like hearing what peeps have to say about more controversial topics :3
Thank you so much for your comment :D
Don't worry Asenva :D
Most recasts are from big companies like FL, Soom, and Volks, so not a lot of smaller companies are taking punches to the face.
for the following reasons:
1. The sales of clothing etc. has also dropped, recasts also need clothing, eyes, wigs...
2. You have to be invited to join DoA, if someone you invite does something bad YOU could be banned, as a result people are nervous about inviting others and so newbies with no dolls can't access the marketplace
3. People used to buy secondhand dolls because the only other option was to go through a shopping service, now you can easily buy new from online shops such as Angelesque
Thank you so much for watching :3
Thank you so much for your comment :D There are other options as far as practicing mods go :3 you dont haveee to buy a recast doll to do mods. Plus modifications are risks that we all take. So whether it is 50 or 500 dollars you need to know what you are doing and be careful too :3
Thank you so much for your awesome opinion ;) Just to kinda respond back to your comments whether recasts are bought from Doll Family or Volks, it is still cutting profits. The profits not only go into the workers but it also goes into the production itself. It costs money to make the molds and other materials that go into casting a doll. Like I mentioned in my response Volks is lucky because they do make money and not only from dolls (they can have a plan B). But our other companies don't :(
Wise words were spoken. I'm totally with you! No one should be bashed for owning a recast, but people should be aware how buying them harms doll companies.
Fun story: The building is present on both sides (unfortunately :c). One day a girl asker on fb group, where she can get (put a random mnf here) and how much this doll costs. Unfortunately she couldn't afford it, and someone suggested her a recast, so I decided to present her some other companies (with more resonable prices), because she was new in this hobby and, as she declared, knows almost nothing about bjd's. I was called "elitist" and that I'm shaming poor people who can't afford an original doll, that people like me are a cancer to this hobby etc. because I was supposedly *forcing* this girl to buy a legit bjd. .-.
I guess I'm sort of strange, if the doll is limited and/or out of production and can no longer be bought through the company or a distributor then I don't see the problem, after all the company is no longer making money from the doll since they aren't making it anymore. Plus the company is still gaining reputation for their sculpts while consumers are made happy because they get the sculpt they want. But if the doll is still being made then it's a no go.
I think you did a great job with this Asenva!
Sometimes you gotta talk about stuff in the hobby that may stub some toes.
After all, this is your opinion.
Good job! ^-^
Very interesting :) but I feel that dolls that are limited/ out of production are rare jewels. They gain value and become keepsakes. When they are recasted it kinda takes that magic away and kinda stinks to those who did get a chance to get them because what was the point in them buying a "limited edition" The company still looses money though because those profits were intended for them but are now being redirected :( Thank you so much for voicing your opinion :D I really appreciate it!
I feel the same way. I wouldn't shun someone or stop being their friend if they bought one, I just think it's morally wrong. Also like you said, it hurts companies and their artists in the long run. Nice video Asenva!
Some of the main recasters have something of a reputation to uphold and produce dolls of a quality almost equal and on rare occasions exceeding that of the original company. Actual BJD companies make their fair share of slip-ups with Iplehouse's green realskin (it'll come up if you google it). There are also hybrids to consider, with a recaster you can request any head (they offer) on any body no matter the company and be guaranteed a perfect match.
Yup :3 yeah and that is scary to sculpters and stinks for them too because they work hard on their art for it just to get stolen and resold :(
XD thanks so much! JESSS I painfully wait each time I save for anything but it makes it all the more sweeter when it comes in :D
I respect everyone's opinions on the matter but I honestly cannot wag my finger at ppl who buy recasts because I own lots of bootleg items and shamelessly wear knockoff clothing and shoes. I grew up in a household where this was no big deal, I lose no sleep over it. Not everyone shares the same moral values, so it's not a black & white subject. I personally cannot buy used dolls for a twice the price than what they originally where, which is why I often contemplate buying a Limited doll recast.
Thank you so much for sharing with me :D
1) This is somewhat similar to the croc (shoes) idea, and how other companies stole it, though the BJDs seem more time consuming to make (which..I bet they are). 2) Even if I am not a BJD owner, I understand the danger, and harm recasts can be. Thanks for posting this, it really helped me a lot, especially when I was just looking at some recasts too.
Thanks for watching and I respect your opinion.
doll family
And in continuation, I would like to point out (as a minor argument FOR recasts) that the recasters don't just do this out of the goodness of their hearts. What they do also gives them money. The sculptors for a company only get paid once, not per purchase. The recaster I go to uses the same resin as most of the companies. This does mean that the real companies prices are really really high if selling something for only $200 when it is really $600 still gains a profit.
:) thank you for your comment :D that is awesome you saved for your doll and got it :D
Thanks for watching :D
I fully agree with you and DOA, Thank you for sharing with us all Asenva!
Many companies such as Doll Chateau don't have any recasts of their dolls available yet, but have far higher prices than say Resinsoul who sell their dolls at a price closer to that of recasters, and Resinsoul, Bobobie, Doll Leaves, Doll Love etc. are still doing really well and as their prices are low enough I don't believe any of their sculpts are available as recasts either because given the choice people will choose to support the company for a higher fee, just not more than 3x as much.
I pretty much have the same opinion you have. In fact, what I see in this video is that, in genral, you're a respectful person. About other's work, but also to other's opinions and acts. Well I mean, if someone has bought a recast, it's done, it's done. Personally if I had a friend who had a recast. First of all, I'd ask if he/she knew it was. If he/she had been ripped off, I'd be mad at the seller. If not, well, I don't mind, but if he/she has problems with his/her doll, well... I'd just friend
I came to your page from a GK scale model page, but I must say *Thanks* for your attitudes on recasting. Over on my side of the hobby it's terrible how many sculptors call it quits because they can't compete with *their own sculpts* due to the recasts be less expensive. Keep up the good work.
Kevin Kilkenny Thank you so much for watching :)
Thank you so much for your thoughts :D
Personally, I agree with you, Asenva.
I bought a recast head about two months ago (knowingly) and I knew I may go off the wire ordering them in the future. I've limited myself to only buying sculpts that a company no longer offers, or from a very successful company such as Volks or Fairyland. It does hurt the resale market, but I don't want to pay $800-$1000 for JUST a doll head because everyone thinks it's cute. That, my friend, is ridiculous.
odd to me. It's as if I were to go to the the back parking lot of a movie theater and buy a bootleg of the film that I just bought because it looks like it is in great condition, maybe has some extra features, and I get to have it before it even is out on DVD in stores. They are pretty the same scenario :S IMO and it may not seem like it hurts the second hand market but it does put that uncertainty when buying a doll (from the market place or not). As far as buying it because it was a limited
Bjdbaby.com sells recasts of dolls. They say that once you order your doll we start making the doll. And they even sell dolls from companies that don't give shipments to companies who sell a variety of dolls like junky spot.
i think it was a great response :D i m glad you brought out those points
Im kinda on the fence.......I would never buy a doll i could purchase legitimately.....BUT if the company has stopped selling the doll or if the company do not offer the skin tone i would like (even after I have messaged them asking if it will be done in xx colour) and it was a doll i really wanted I would buy recast...I cannot honestly ever say I am 100% against because like most humans with an internet connection i have watched movies and steamed music online which is also classed as stealing
Hmm well that is up to them to re-release the doll, and if they did I bet people would be happy not angry :) and the plain o jane ol fact remains how you are choosing to support the company and by what means do you attain that doll you want :) It's all good my friend I appreciate your thoughts and opinions X3
LOL oh and our flea markets here in the states come out with bootlegs pretty darn fast lolol you could get any movie you want while it is still in theaters lolol kinda sad really
As someone just about to enter the hobby, having just done all my BJD/company research. I would say there are enough worries in the hobby as it is without adding to them. Also, there is no come-back with a pirated product, if you're dealing with a genuine company you're in better hands if things are broken or missing in your order. With a pirate, chances are you'll never hear from them again. It's an added worry that is really not needed for the BJD hobbyist.
On another note, bootlegs are actually a good sign that a certain product is popular and profiting;)
*profitable
yup :3 I just think it gets touchy because people try and view it in a different light :S
Yeah I feel bad for the peeps that do work hard for those limited edition dolls :( I know I feel stupidly proud for having a limited edition crobi doll magnet set. A MAGNET SET!!! But because I know that it is one of a kind and may not be sold again. I have a piece of something super special :) true about the first part of your argument too :3
:3 thanks for watching
You are right :) downloading music is illegal, which is the same reason why bootlegging in general is illegal because it is stealing :) that is super interesting though to hear peoples justifications for getting them though.
My personal opinion on Recasts are they are okay. I know people in the hobby that walk around with knock off purses and 'designer' clothing and try to pass them off as the real thing. I will never hide the fact that i have purchased a recast. I would rather mess up modding on a $180 doll and lose that than mess up a $400 doll. Any recasts that I buy are just for me to experiment on and tests what skills I have. I still believe in buying and supporting the companies that made the originals. Just
Have you ever considered buying a cheaper doll head to practice on? Even finding a second hand head somewhere. Evennnn going with companies like Hujoo who sells dolls for like 25 bucks? There are lots of options my friend :)
One other point I heard someone make is that there are a lot of lesser known companies that have dolls and some may not be as expensive. Doll-Love for example. I just got a really beautiful Fect-Dol Zimo. I have not seen him on any TH-cam videos. I got him as a Full Set and with shipping he cost just over $200. And I like him and think he is better in quality than my IslandDoll who was far more expensive.
I did see a video where someone said the only time they think recasts are okay is with a doll you cannot get. A limited doll they cannot get anywhere.
I completely agree with what you say. Until I got a few I did not realize just how much works of art bjds are. I do not have any recasts and I am glad. I can see these artists put so much into the dolls they make. Though I will admit, if after extensive searching and not finding I have one exception. Zuzu Delf Lio Griffon. That is my grail doll. I do not want a recasts of this one. I so want a full set. I cannot find him anywhere yet but I will keep looking.
Kitty Mau There are so many great dolls out there and I love seeing what people do with them X3
Thanks so much for sharing your opinion :) I really appreciate it :)
I usually get them from Junky Spot if I can :) the twins are from Junky Spot XD Twins are so much fun!!
yeah I would be sad if I was expecting the real doll and instead got tricked with a recast :(
I think that depends because if you are recasting the whole doll and starting modifications with that copy as blank canvas...why not just mod the doll itself? It isn't illegal to mod your doll...I just feel that it is wrong for some of these recasters to recast them and sell them :(
Did i hear a footloose reference at 2:27? That was awesome xD
very good prompt asenva! I really enjoyed watching it! Very valid points and I very much agree with everything you said :) !
Thanks for watching :D
I do also agree that some companies may need to think about lowering their prices. I love how posable Fairyland bodies are, but in terms of price I'd just go and buy an Obitsu for similar posability so they still don't gain their money from me even though I haven't bought a recast.
I think theres also the argument if BBB/Resin Soul can do loads of different resin colours for only $10/$20 more then why do companies like Soom charge another $100 or so for their coloured version (estimated figures)
As for making other people feel like they paid too much for the doll, it isn't different to noticing someone got something you paid full price for in a sale.....I don't have any problems with people buying things in sales.
Yikearronies I didn't know it was getting this heated here but thank you all for not chewing each other out and using foul language and what-not. I hope we all just understand that this is a very controversial topic and that peeps are going to be set in their opinions and we may not be able to change either sides view. So I think it's best just to nod and walk away :)
THANK YOU ON THE MONEY PART!
Yes, recasts and bootlegs are cheaper than legal BJDs, but it's still a LOT of money. Isn't it just better to not take part in criminal activities that actually ruin it for the community, and just save for it?
And Asenva, please, it is NOT opinion to state facts. Recasting/bootlegging is ILLEGAL, period. And like my friend said: "I do not want to partake in a community where the criminal activies are more accepted than reprimanding them".
Not every doll is recast, you can't purchase most dolls, limited edition or not, as recasts, if someone wants to have the limited edition doll badly enough they will buy it direct from the company rather than waiting months only to find that it never gets recast and then having to spend more money in the marketplace as limited editions tend to go up in price significantly.
Thank you so much! That is so awesome that you buy second hand dolls :) very cool!
recast sold as a legitimate doll. As for the argument about supporting the company, if it is a limited doll already sold out, in a resin colour not offered by the company, or only a head from a company like lumedoll which sells only whole dolls, if they hadn't bought a recast it is very unlikely that they would have bought the doll from the company in the first place. Also there has been talk about recasts damaging the secondhand market on DoA, I highly doubt that this is mainly due to recasts
^.^ Love your invisible signs! LOL I totally agree with what they stand for!
Well I just think every doll is charming and here in sweden we got pretty big forums were we sell BJDs in second hand
I do agree with you Asenva. I've been into the hobby for about 6 years now and I know how much cash those babies require, specially for me that lives in Brazil, BUT, I simply can't do this. I simply can't support recasting by any means, it's just not my principles. Of course I won't bully someone just because he/she have recasts, but if you want a doll, save for it, propose a layaway, ask family a little help, idk, just don't do it. It's illegal, it's "art theft" and not fair to the companies.
I own a recast. The only reason why I bought a recast is because I couldn't get a job and I really wasn't thinking much. Right now I'm saving up for a mystic kids.
+Beepbop__Rainbow Thanks for sharing with us :)
Not to poke at you my friend but you listed a bunch of interesting things. Your opening statement about not being able to get the doll you want in the exact color ect justifies buying a stolen sculpt that someone worked really hard on and is now just being sold for way less than the original price? Buying from recasters is ok, even though they are not their own original creations, because it will come in faster and the quality is good and maybe better than the original? T_T it just seems really
I don't really know much about this hobby, but I understand both sides of this argument so I'm neutral because I think both sides make good points. I'm 100% against all the bullying though. I think that's terrible :(
For sure the bullying and witch hunting is super sad :/
im a beginner doll sculpting and its just scary the thought of someone copying something i worked on for 80 + hours on like some one seeing something like a new way of doing joints and doing the same when planing out there doll is 100% fine that kinda is good for everyone but molding and recasting is just wrong like if you don't have the money for a high end doll then look around there are small busyness selling newer dolls for alot cheaper
Not always some people free download 200-1000 songs for free and that the same sorry...but if you download songs or TV show for free and says recasting wrong your hipocrit. Now you don't seem like one so you can say recasting wrong because if you can't buy it anyways, because it not sold in your contries, I don't see that as stealing :) As I said I didn't say was for recasting I'm just says if you downloas songs or TV shows for free and say racasting wrong your a hipocrit.
I think this is something that I am literally so scared of. I fort am still shaky on what a recast is, like, are they doll that company B makes that looks exactly like, but sell cheaper for the original maker, company Z? I really want a mini fee Rin and I have found her on a few places for around 250 when I also founds her on Fairyland for something like 650. Does that make the 250 one a recast even if they did not make the doll themselves? I'm so new into this hobby and I don't want a mistake like this to cause me unequal opportunity in the community.
Ninjikun So let's break it down :D
(A) is the original company or maker of the doll.
(B) is the company who purchased a doll from A and made a mold of it. B then uses that mold to make copies of the doll they got from A. The copies made from the molds are called recasts.
However if you want the doll in a different colour, then it is possible that you would never buy it from the company, as a result if there was no recast available the company wouldn't get the money anyway.
Do you feel the same about dolls that have been copied or heavily 'inspired' by other companies? What are your views on knock-off designer bags/watches and off-brand cereals such as choco-puffs instead of coco pops?
:) Hmm so are you saying you like them because they sell a variety of dolls? More than most distributors? Just to kinda add to some of my points and with no crazy mad lady talk but, the point and whole picture is that they are making the dolls (recasters are) and they are using someone elses doll to make them. So they could very well make whatever sculpts they want but it doesn't change the fact that the design doesn't belong to them :(
then how do you know if a doll is a recast?
How can you tell if it's been recasted? Bobobie and Resinsoul have the same Mei doll but I'd really like to get the real version of this doll. So how can I tell who recasted it? They're the exact same price too are they both recasts then?
HAHAHHAHAH nah it's all good! It was def fun to do and talk about :)
Thank you so much for your honest opinion :)
Pretty much have the same opinion-only with recasts it is so scary with possibly toxic resin!
your post was 2 months ago so you probably already found the information out but "dollsoom.com" would be the legit site. I'm not to familar with the 2 you are asking about but a lot of their dolls are limited or monthly limited dolls..if these 2 are as well you'll only find them on sooms website during that sale period or another company that may be a rep for Soom (again not too familar with them so not certain who legit reps are)
I've only considered buying a recast once, and that was for my first BJD. She's a Lati Yellow Lumi, however, her body isn't Lati and doesn't fit any Lati Yellow size clothes, so finding clothes to fit her has been extremely difficult. [I guess it'd be easier if I knew who made it, but no one seems to know.] Not to mention, I'm terrified of it eventually cracking her head or something. The neck is too thick for the hole in her head, so it shifts around a lot, and I'm always worried that one day her little head is going to break or something bad will happen. Because of this, and more, I began to look at a recast Pukifee body. I don't have much money, and I got my first BJD for free from a friend to begin with [she no longer wanted her and couldn't sell her because of the weirdo body], so I figured it was the best option. I never ended up buying the body, though. The entire process of ordering it was way too complex for me and I was super confused. Now I just kinda stalk Ebay hoping someone will post a Lati/Pukifee body for less than 200$. I think I made the right decision, since when I was talking to a woman who had a booth at a convention who made her own BJDs vented to me about how much money she lost due to recasts. It was insane.
HappyDancingRainbows Wow super interesting story :o thanks for sharing with me :) Hope you find a dolly you enjoy :)