Did Disneyland Repeat A PAST MISTAKE in Downtown Disney?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ค. 2024
- Has Downtown Disney Made a Big Mistake Again?
Today, we dive into the latest changes at Downtown Disney and explore whether Disney has repeated a big mistake. Specifically, we focus on the newly opened Din Tai Fung restaurant, a popular and upscale dining spot known for its delicious Chinese cuisine.
Din Tai Fung's addition to Downtown Disney has sparked controversy and curiosity. Did Disney make a strategic move or a misstep with this new building? We analyze the architectural choices and the overall aesthetic direction of Downtown Disney, comparing them to previous design decisions.
Join us as we examine this area's past, present, and future. We'll discuss the impact of the new Din Tai Fung location, the transformation of other nearby businesses, and what this means for Downtown Disney's future.
Is Din Tai Fung a perfect fit for Disneyland's entertainment district, or does it contradict the recent design trends? Watch the video to find out!
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The Jazz Kitchen was like being in New Orleans in every sense. They took every ounce of charm, ambience, atmosphere and magic from it. So sad😢
1000% this. Downtown Disney should be “themed” as part of the larger theme park. Style guide that’s 2010’s beige is so much worse.
I agree. Loved the theming/feel of Jazz kitchen. Haven’t even bought a beignet there since the remodel.
@@michaelruss8553 The same thing hapenned to one of my fav restaurants near me, Yosemite Ranch in Fresno. It used to have the best atmosphere, like being at something like the Ahwahnee in Yosemite Valley. Now it looks very much like this. Cold, soulless, sterile, cafeteria befitting an upscale medical center. We don't go there any more. Great memories is all that remains. Ah well, progress right? 😄
@@mcritz46vl I came here to say exactly this. I don't go to Disneyland to feel like I'm in any other SoCal shopping mall. I want the theming, I want to feel immersed in a story. Give me more of that! You want a beer bar? Fine, build Gaston's Ale House. You want Italian? Open up Pinocchio's Trattoria. I loved the Jazz Kitchen. There's a reason that Trader Sam's is so popular.
Totally agree. We went earlier this and had no clue Jazz Kitchen switched up. Was so upset that New Orleans style wasn’t there. Food was still incredible though 😂
This might be that rare moment where I disagree with you. I don't like the sleek modernization of Downtown Disney, it makes it look like just another outdoor mall. I greatly prefer the more unique aspects of it, including the old Rainforest Cafe and ESPN Zone buildings. Can that create problems for the future? Possibly, but they'll just have to get creative again
At least the rainforest cafe was replace with that cool star wars store
I get the issues with something like Rainforest Cafe, where you can't really just restyle it as something else (Yes they are using it for the Star Wars store, but that is a small portion of the entire building and they kind of lucked out with that one). But in the case of Din Tai Fung, they can just put literally any other Chinese style food in there and it will be fine. I too like when something is designed to be bespoke, however I fully understand the issues that can cause. For example we have a local dim sum place that is inside an old Mimi's cafe, and its very strange.
I completely agree. I love your content. But your wrong about this one.
I feel the same. If I want that homogenized sterile environment, I stick to my local outdoor malls.
Don't like the way downtown Disney has become sterile in its look in so many of the new buildings. People want themed architecture like Trader Sam as an example. Jazz Kitchen was cool and now its plain. Something about taking a person into another place and time is fun and pleasing to your emotions.
I will never step foot in Jazz Kitchen again after that remodel.
@@himynameiscorey Me either. The themed architecture was the reason I used to go there and other places in Downtown Disney. I can go to other plain looking restaurants the serve equally good food much closer to home. I live in southern California, I went there to get away to somewhere else.
I'd riot if they messed with the Trader Sam's aesthetic
Wait, people actually want California modern at Disney? That's boring
The new Jazz Kitchen is an abomination. The generic-ication of Downtown Disney is horrendous. It's not even a unique idea to water down and beige/black everything into oblivion - literally every business has been doing this for decades. So, way to jump on the dirty coat tails of things like the notorious middle aged depressed McDonald's location esthetic.
I know going to a theme park was always meant to be an "upscale, clean, modern, top hole buttoned, Home Owners Association managed" experience, just like Walt dreamed of. /s
Ugh I hate that I used "modern" like that, even in jest. "Modern" is just a branded term for an esthetic that is just a TREND that by definition (2007's 'modern' will not be the same as 2037's 'modern') will fade out, be ridiculed by the next big phase of trend seekers, then become attached to a nostalgic romanticism for a bygone era. 'Modern' has been hijacked to mean minimalistic, generic, inoffensive, timid, bland, and without the risk of actual personality. "Modern" sucks and should stay in the pages of sad design circulations and mindless Pinterest boards, imo. It's a default setting that should be meant as the starting point to actual design choices.
Hey Brickey, we were absolutely robbed when they de-themed the Jazz Kitchen. The promise is that it would fit in better with the pedestrian look of the rest of the downtown Disney “outdoor mall”. As an out of towner , Downtown Disney always felt like an afterthought. I mean Din Tai Fung looks like a cool building but like the draw is hard for me cause like 1 it’s not Disney 2 I’ve had good Chinese food already, so what’s the draw. Sorry for the hot take, as always appreciate you spurring discussion Brickey.
I hate what they did with Jazz Kitchen
The new look of Downtown Disney is so bland and boring. The untheming makes it less desirable to visit.
If the older version of the Jazz Kitchen didn't appeal to various people, or was too theme-y, the newer version to me looks like something at a food court of the local mall. In general, too much of current-day Disney is being Gensler-ized, in both Anaheim & Orlando.
I prefer and miss the old jazz kitchen design
Route all you want, Disney. But Brick WILL find your dark, vaguely sad, forgotten corner alley of the park and vibe there by himself til the fun facts are TOLD. You can fight it, but you won't win.
It is truly sad to see what they did to the Jazz Kitchen, it was always one of our must stops at Down town Disney for the ambience, decor, and feel. Unfortunately we no longer go there at all simply because it looks like a mall parking structure and who wants to sit in a parking structure to enjoy a meal. Horrible decision on the part of Disney when it came to the Jazz Kitchen.
I agree
Downtown Disney is a shadow of itself nowadays. The removal of Espn zone, stripping and de-theming of jazz kitchen, replacing Rainforest cafe with a half-assed Star Wars store, what else? Besides it looking like a gentrified dining and shopping center you can find in any city? I hate hate hate what it’s become. Also I completely understand removing the movie theater due to it’s lack of profit but it was nice to have too. Din tai fung immediately taking the top restaurant position in Downtown Disney is less a testament to how good it is, and how subpar all of the other options are.
To understand Downtown Disney you have to go back to Jon Jerde's Horton Plaza in San Diego in 1985, the prototype "festival marketplace" (there's a great mini-documentary on TH-cam by All Things Architecture). Part of the unique look of Horton Plaza was a disjointed architecture, as if the shopping center had grown organically over time, and that was achieved by having different teams work on different buildings.
Jerde went on to design CityWalk at Universal Studios Hollywood in 1993, which featured even more cartoonish architecture and signage.
In the early '90s Universal emerged onto Disney's radar as a serious competitor both in Florida and California and there is no doubt they were inspired by CityWalk when creating Downtown Disney, which opened in 2001. Downtown Disney never had the density and energy of CityWalk, and though it was named DOWNTOWN Disney, it has always been -- and is increasingly -- SUBURBAN in spirit and aesthetics.
Critics are right to point out current-day Downtown Disney is hardly more interesting than many local shopping centers at this point, as the thematic, post-modern playfulness has been stripped out. It is unclear what the design thinking is behind this (should "Genslerfication" be a new word we use to describe this?) -- this is a vacation destination after all, not a local mall. Granted, the aesthetics do not need to be '90s "festival marketplace" or "urban entertainment center" post-modernism, that indeed could be very dated. But it should have some special feel that will leave a lasting impression and inspire imagination, and wonder. Why not? It's Disney!
I personally would like Downtown Disney to have a respectable version of the "solar punk" aesthetic with lots of foliage (shade!), green roofs, green walls, arbors, pergolas, natural materials including wood, rusty finishes on steel, concrete formed with interesting textures, and lush water features. To me, this would be a great vision for a "downtown" of the future, with architecture and landscape in harmony, and would blend well with the Grand Californian (and the underlying nature-respecting principles of the Arts & Crafts movement it is based on) and could blend into the mid-century modernism of the Disneyland Hotel.
A lot of your comments on the design remind me of why I loathe a lot of things with the way everything seems to be going with restaurants now, especially with more fast food type ones.
They all look nearly the same now, really the signage being the difference between them, far to easily swapped between them.
So many iconic design features that you can still pick out from their older buildings with whatever they are now...
Absolutely, the 'middle aged, depressed, corporate McDonald's' esthetic. Not a vibe I want to be around as a customer. They paved over the Play Land and put up black and beige, lifeless pillars.
@@JustJessee It annoys me seeing the rows of almost identical ones bothers me more and more.
Hell, you even have things with old strip malls where they did things to make them unique and stand out from each other...one that I used to go to eat at a diner there had several castle like turrets built in along the overhang and crenelation along the top...I've seen that the place remains the same (It's right by where my grandmother lived before she couldn't live on her own, and died a few years later).
It's just something where everything feels like it's going all sterile...
You mean to say that Downtown Disney had failed to allow the building for the Din Tai Fung restaurant to match the bland, mid 20th century design that has been increasingly prevalent in the area? Good.
I agree, where's the fun elements in these plain and sterile looking updates to these buildings. Eventually downtown Disney will look like and other outside shopping mall! No character!
Whoever thought, "Themed shops and restaurants at a theme park? What a ridiculous idea. We need to change this."? To me, de-theming Downtown Disney makes about as much sense as de-theming Disneyland itself.
I have always seen Downtown Disney as an extension of Disneyland. Going to Downtown Disney and eating in the themed restaurants made me feel like I could go to Disneyland and just eat and hang out without going on any rides. Downtown Disney is a 50-minute drive from home, and it used to be worth it, but now it's not. The Jazz Kitchen was my favorite restaurant. I used to drive there for the atmosphere and music, and I've spent several birthdays there, but I'll never go again. I also enjoyed the other themed restaurants, but they'll be gone too. Upscale or downscale, it doesn't really matter. I go to Downtown Disney for the Disney-like atmosphere. I go there to feel like I'm somewhere unique and fun with an element of fantasy. I go to get away from everyday southern California, not to be immersed in it. Why not just call the remodeled area Downtown?
I wonder if The Grand Californian will also be de-themed. Since it is right there at Downtown Disney, its architectural style will seem out of place. I can't help but wonder if someone is thinking that if the Jazz Kitchen needs a new, hip, modern vibe, then so does the Blue Bayou and Cafe Orleans, and maybe all of New Orleans Square. Heck, maybe all of Disneyland should get rid of that outdated, kitschy theme stuff and take the word "theme" out of theme park.
Din Tai’s popularity baffles me. I can get the same quality dumplings at my local joints and their dining room is loud and laid out like a cafeteria. I love their building though, they really knocked it out of the park.
You have to understand the bizarre psychology of an arrested development Disney Adult. They’re willing to buy $10 cupcakes, $8 churros, and $12 corn dogs, and think they’ve received the greatest deal ever… then post about it on social media.
Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. We stayed at the Disneyland Hotel a couple of weeks ago, and while I think the new restaurant looks cool, it is a specific theme that goes against the modernization of the rest of DtD. The new security check point is very well themed. I, personally, preferred the old Jazz Kitchen, we haven't returned since the update. We were sad to see Tortilla Joes close as it was a favorite as well.
The new jazz kitchen is abhorrent. Disney is about theming, why modernize it and make it feel so common and generic? I really just dont understand it. Its original theming was not campy or over the top, so idk why they felt the need to corporatize it.
The old Rain Forest, should be turned into a Adventure land type restaurant, wasted revenue stream
At first I didn't like rainforest but as I frequented it, it kind of grew on me and was quirky and fun. I agree with you that it should be turned into an Adventure land restaurant. People want fantasy, not abandoned looking buildings or sterile looking buildings. Just my opinion.
Downtown Disney was peak in early 2010's. Change my mind
Seems it would be more productive convincing the LEGO store dragon it’s a frog.
Not a fan of the new Jazz Kitchen design. As others have said, instead of feeling like you've been transported somewhere interesting, you're at your local mall.
As for the Din Tai Fung Taiwanese Food Palace, they didn't do a great job integrating it into the surrounding buildings. 5/10. Thanks for the great content as always!
I totally agree
3:35. Din tai fung is not Chinese food, it is Taiwanese food.
The Chinese communist party would disagree lol😂
Good point, but directly from their website: "Welcome to Din Tai Fung, a world-renowned Chinese restaurant originating in Taiwan that specializes in soup dumplings and noodles."
However, on their IG they label themselves as "Taiwanese Restaurant".
The mystery continues.
@@BudoDave76 LOL!!
Brickey, you're really focused on what happens when Din Tai Fung leaves. Disney clearly isn't worried about that, or figure everything will change again in 10 years anyway.
The jazz kitchen was my all-time favorite place to eat when going to disneyland. But my last visit in 2022 it just wasn't the same. They sucked out all the charm it had. And the fact that they never brought back that delicious jalapeño cornbread after 2020 😢 just upsets me to my core. Lol, would I eat at the jazz kitchen again? No, but I will always make room for those warm, freshly made Beignets 😂 I really would like to try Din tai Fung, but of course, with all things at Disney, there are no reservations until late August 😮
I like all the different theming like the rainforest cafes I don’t want every business to look the same especially not Disney like other regular outside malls shopping centers restaurants
You do realize that Downtown Disney is adjacent to two THEME PARKS. Right? Why on earth would you want the buildings for Downtown Disney to look like something from a high-priced shopping center mired in a lot of minimalist crap, instead of something for guests at a theme park resort? I don't understand. As for the new building for the Jazz Kitchen? I think it looks like a poorly designed restaurant at a shopping mall constructed during the 1980s. I think it looks like crap. I think the new resting area next to Din Tai Fung looks cheap. Along with the new Pixar Hotel and the Disneyland Hotel DVC Tower. Cheap looking mid-century designs.
@@DRush76 Spot on. I work in commercial construction (fire protection) and see this style for nearly every new building going up. Parking garage, medical office building, civic center. Hell, UC San Diego is riddled with the stuff lately. Something's gotta give, like the Arts and Crafts movement (timeless, like the Grand Californian) in response to Victorianism. It's time to move on. I want to be transported! Take me there!
Such a tragedy. Jazz kitchen had so much New Orleans charm and now it feels like I'm eating in a prison
Ginsler is NOT Disney! But corporate disney has become them! That's why all the new projects are so lame. They could be a Marriott or convention center design for these places. The new restaurants look like a BJ's , Cheesecake factory or something like them. NOT Disney. They don't tell a story, infuse you into them and them into you, make a lasting impression of someplace that's unlike anywhere else. The new downtown corporate disney reminds me of the GardenWalk nearby, no different or any more special.
Jazz Kitchen now looks like a wana-be New Orleans, suburban strip mall restaurant.
The food quality is skyrocketing legitimately but inreally cant stand downtown disney or the resort grounds in general. Grand californian takes up 20 percent of DCAs real estate easily, and none of the hotels are themed as well as wdw hotels. Relieved though that disneyland forward is approved and i am very optimistic. The modern/contemporary resorts and dowontown disney are just becoming the neutral palette cleanser between themed lands on the west coast, the way victorian is utilized in other locations. There is enough other stuff going on that its not as bothersome but it really isnt an escape from reality the way disney used to be. The park in front of din tai fung will likely be part of disneyland forward, connecting dca expansion to dtd. But they built a giant series of boxes for retail across from espn zone and rainforest cafe. Much smoother placemaking but still, feels in many ways like more of the same
Like you said Din Tai Fung is insanely popular, and the only other Orange County location is in Costa Mesa. It being 11 miles away from Downtown Disney means there's a very good chance a group of non Disney fans would drive to the new location just to dine, even with the $35 parking fee. Din tai Fung has another advantage that people LOVE the EXPENSIVE food there, unlike Rainforest Cafe where people complain about having the worst food they ever had and wanting their $18 back. I can tell you Din Tai Fung makes a lot of money, even the servers are making $$$. I think Disney struck gold with Din Tai Fung and of course the mouse would do whatever to accommodate them.
It's a cool building but it sticks out like a sore thumb. They destroyed an awesome art deco theater and replaced it with this?
I was lucky enough to see Solo in that theater. I never ate at Rainforest Cafe but I know lots of people loved it for some reason.
The theme of Rain Forest was kind of cool, ate there many times. Now Disney seems to be making some of downtown Disney sterile though the new Taiwanese themed restaurant looks nice, but in a way doesn't match.
I have worried too that this expensive building and unique restaurant may be a huge burden in the future….☹️
As someone living in asia who’s been to din tai fung in multiple countries (including taiwan), im saying its definitely not an upscale dining restaurant. Its just casual dining and probably should be the same with disney restaurants
The new architecture in Downtown Disney appears to be more streamlined and reminiscent of any typical destination in the USA. It seems to be adopting the concept of "faux five-star restaurants" or what is sometimes referred to as "monopolistic competition" from fast food chains Starbucks to McDonald’s started over a decade ago.
In my humble opinion, Universal CityWalk has always been and continues to be better than Downtown Disney, even more so now. Overall, the Disney experience is declining, and with Disney Imagineering almost non-existent, Downtown Disney has lost its identity, which is quite disappointing. Only the Disney Addicts will tell you otherwise!
Have to disagree with the Jazz Kitchen. The new version has no personality. And Gensler has ruined quite a bit of Disney turning it into an upscale mall look. Yea, it looks nice for an upscale mall feel, but not Disney, which to me IS all about theaming. Also, lets hope they don't open a third gate, but instead expands DCA and Disneyland.
It feels like they're doing the same thing as DCA's initial plan: Make it look like every other place in California to make it an attractive single-stop for out-of-state visitors. For the overwhelmingly local visitors though it's now just boring. If I wanted to feel like I was in a Palm Springs shopping center I'd just go to Palm Springs.
This entire company is so lost…it’s truly astounding
I feel like this just represents the direction Disney has decided to go which is basically only the wealthy can come here. The dining options are mostly upscale with upscale prices. Staying at the Grand Californian right now STARTS at $750 per night. Single day single park tickets start at $104, Parking is $25 per day. Realistically as someone who is disabled and has to live in California on disability income (less than $15,000 per year) Disneyland has become completely out of reach for me.
@@aseainfo Holy moly, I was just talking about this with a friend telling them we used to stay there when our kids were little and we paid 300 per night and that it's now 575. 750???? I guess it's been a while since I checked. That's totally insane.
Sorry, Brickey, I greatly despise the current Gensler-ization of Disney. From Downtown Disney’s revamp to the hotels at Disney World (and Downtown Disney’s cancelled resort hotel near miss), the Imagineers influenced by the architectural firm have sucked out the fantasy, whimsy, and fun from the projects.
Why do we visit Disney? We want to step into a world of design that’s fanciful and different than high-end shopping malls and airport convention hotels we can easily visit within minutes from our homes. Although Downtown Disney’s older design style might’ve seemed a bit “cartoonish,” it was, in fact, decades old and could’ve been updated, yet kept the beloved imaginative details.
Pointing to Brennon’s Jazz Kitchen as an example, the new experience is as inviting as arriving at a new strip mall restaurant located between a Pavilions supermarket and family donut shop off a city boulevard. Dull, dull, dull. In San Diego, we have taco shops with better visual appeal.
I find it interesting that Din Tai Fung was completed well after Barbara Bouza, formally of Gensler (and a main offender of bland design), was given the boot as Imagineering President. Could it be that after all the public complaints of vanilla theming, Fung is the start of a slightly more adventurous direction for some new businesses? Fung does has fun character, but is still somewhat conservative. It’s not much wilder than a fancier PF Changs restaurant and certainly shows no Rainforest Cafe excess.
I look at Fung as an encouraging sign.
Thanks for the insight, Brickey!
Thanks for another great video, Brickey!
Gensler doesn't bother with details.
Fun video, Downtown Disney, the real life Tetris game. Maybe that crows nest is open like that to lure all the crows from Disneyland ? Keep up the good work !
After the lease is up, there is P.f. Changs
❤ walking up and talking to you as you sat on the bench all day was a great day for me.😊
Contemporary architects have a hard time working with other peoples themes. Gensler does not seem inspired or people friendly
there's nothing wrong with a chinese restaurant residing in a building with chinese architectural design elements
I don’t have any problem at all with DTF architecture. It looks like a contemporary interpretation of traditional design and not a silly caricature like previous buildings. If enough of the style throughout Downtown Disney is cohesive then it allows the select few to take a variation on that look. Downtown Disney going to get torn down and rebuilt multiple times in coming years anyway so don’t really expect anything to last more than a decade at the most.
Good analysis. We just visited and it's a really beautiful building but yes, but it's totally out of place. And as a New Orleanian, I must say that Jazz Kitchen looked so much better before. Now it just looks generic. They lucked out with the Rainforest Cafe bldng- it works with the Star Wars theme. Lastly- I thought everyone learned not to build branded buildings from Pizza Hut?? Anyhoooo, thanks again Brickey, your eye for detail and design is much appreciated!
Great analysis. Thank you!
Cool video next time I go I will have to walk this area more after listening to your take.
Love your videos I find them to be extremely informative.
FYI I believe the 1st stand alone location of Din Tai Fung in the US was in Arcadia California on Baldwin Blvd. I believe the original location closed a few years ago. There was another location that was opened in the shopping mall in Arcadia. Now that the original location is now closed there is only 1 remaining location of Din Tai Fung. In Arcadia. The location in the Arcadia Mall.
Keep doing what you are doing. I love your content!
That HVAC nest destroys the long subtle swooping of the roof line
Although I clicked the thumbs up for this video, I have several critiques.
1) your overly repetitive narration to make the video longer;
2) although partially & logically sound, your skepticism about the longevity of Din Tai Fung, if they exit, Disney can shoehorn a Mulan themed retail or restaurant in the space;
3) the B roll of Din Tai Fung internal video was not explained in relationship to your narration of the restaurant was to open. So how is it that you show video of a restaurant in operation, but the restaurant is scheduled to open? Such lack of attention to detail, detracts from the video.
But I did find your descriptions about the inter connectedness between Gensler and Disney quite eye opening! As a former officer with bank next door to the Gensler headquarters in downtown Los Angeles, it was interesting to hear of the career paths between Gensler and Disney.
more wood slats would take down the HVAC system. they probably had to remove wood slats from the original design
I agree with you, and it will also be interesting what Disney's plans are for the old ESPN building. This may offer some answers to Din Tai Fung's departure from DTD. Also what about Portos which was announced two years ago as the main big Disneyland news at D23. Still no Portos for a couple of more years. I have to ask myself what will be announced this year at D23 that will never happen, is anyone's guess. I'm sorry I'm a bit off-topic, but is all still in the Downtown Disney discussion?
Hey Brickey! I'm glad that all of the comments here about Ralph Brennen's Jazz Kitchen (now Jazz Kitchen) are the same, nobody likes the new version. Ralph Brennen's was a must for our family. For reference (not that anybody cares) I have my wife and six children, we live in Northern California and make our way to the parks once, sometimes twice a year. We usually go to the parks 3 days, making our total stay 4 nights (Get into town Tuesday afternoon, go to the parks Wed, Thur, Fri and leave Saturday morning for example). We usually eat dinner at Ralph Brennen's two nights, Plaza Inn one night and something different on the fourth night. After our last trip in December of 2023, I can say we all agreed that was our last time eating at 'Jazz Kitchen'. It's too bad, we have celebrated birthdays there along with so many meals and the memories that come with Disney trips. But like all good things, this too came to an end. The new 'theming' of Downtown Disney makes me feel like I'm at any outdoor mall here in California, not anywhere special.
I believe what you heard about the hotel cancellation is correct. Cast member wages and a per visit theme park gate tax (similar to hotel room tax or TOT) were the proverbial straws. Sad to see DTF $3-5 more per dish than its other locations in LA/OC. I do think the quality is better at the Costa Mesa location but nice to have the option in DTD (hopefully will improve with time). I’m even more puzzled by the steakhouse move than the design of DTF. Hearthstone now has a $72 New York, there is also a very good Fleming’s, Morton’s, and Ruth’s Chris around the corner. If the new steak house has the classic Disney up-charge unless they do an Outback level location, the price is likely going to be mind boggling, ~$80-100 for a 16oz ribeye. I don’t see that surviving without corporate Amex cards fronting most of the load. At some point high end steak is high end steak and the convenience of eating it in DTD is not going to be enough to draw the corporate/convention crowd from its existing competitors, especially when DTD security lines have been pretty bad in the evenings. Great vid, totally appreciate/agree with all your insights.
I'm still bummed that Tortilla Jo's has closed. I loved having tortillas chips with salsa and a margarita during a Disney visit.
me too!
Personally, I am very happy that it is different. I hate the fact that they have taken the personality out of Downtown Disney. Everything is cookie cutter now. I have always detested mid century modern and it actually made me angry. Yes, that’s my visceral reaction to it. Not anyone else’s. I went to DT Disney for the first time since 2019 last year and, to me, instead of adding to the Disney feel and excitement, it has taken away some of that. After all, the parks are not homogenous in their design. (Other than all Disney IP.)
We have a Din Tai Fung up here in Santa Clara, California and it is doing well. I don't know about in Anaheim or in Downtown Disney this is new to them in socal.
Are you referring to the one inside the valley fair mall in front of Santana Row ?
Bricky - It is strange what happened to Jazz Kitchen. We were married there in 2005 (the only couple ever get married there and have the entire restaurant to ourselves for most of the evening), so that place and the older look, interior and exterior, and the previous menu had a lot of meaning to us. I was told Ralph Brennan wanted an update, but to us this was too homogeneous and the menu too “California” and not enough NOLA.
So it was strange to see Paseo and all and then Din Tai get these highly themed buildings. (Yes, you are correct in the Paseo could be easily re-themed).
But then again, look at Disney Springs at WDW. Most of those restaurants have a very specific design to match what they are and as we recently saw with Summer House they pretty much took down the former building for the new one. And overall, most of the restaurants at Disney Springs are upscale. I feel at Disneyland this is now the direction, except for places like Earl’s and the upcoming (hopefully) Porto’s.
😢
@HeyBrickey love your videos!!!!!! is the downtown Disney redo an attempt to connect the Disneyland hotels mid century design to Disneyland’s main gate and Main Street by having you travel back in time thru architecture movements? Mid century to Art Deco to craftsman to Victorian? The DCA gate notwithstanding 😊
I love Din Tai Fung. I’ve been to 4 of their locations. Can’t wait to visit this one.
I respectfully think you missed on this critique....Asian architecture HEAVILY influenced mid-century modern architects and their work. The Din Tai Fung building design blends very well with the new Downtown Disney design aesthetic. Asian architecture is timeless, unlike the design/theming of Rainforest Cafe + other defunct structures in DTD, and I can see Din Tai Fung (and its design elements) having more than a 10-year time horizon.
I think everyone is burying the lead, here. Disney went with mid century modern because it is cheap to build. Very minimalist with an eschewing of detail. There is a reason it took over post-war America in the West. Streamlined, stark and "futuristic" but also bland and cheap.
I get that Disneyland is ever evolving, but what happened to tradition? Disneyland was the place for making memories and if it’s constantly changing, it loses the nostalgia.
"“We keep moving forward, opening up new doors and doing new things… and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths” and “Times and conditions change so rapidly that we must keep our aim constantly focused on the future” - Walt Disney
Disney is effectively finding ways to Relegate Perspective Attendees Anywhere but their, often misguided dysfunctional attendee hating Behavior. Disney the magical land of multiplying crickets.
Bringing over the generic, beige aesthetic of the Gensler firm is single-handedly what is wrong with Disney's design proclivities today. It's a direct reflection of people like Bob Chapek and Ann Morrow Johnson not understanding who Disney's fans are, being fans of the "Disney" product and what Disney's history of visual storytelling is and frankly if they did know, they didn't care. For everyone who hates how Disney has abandoned bold, visual styling in favor of the "Kardashian Beige" visual language, you can blame Disney's executive management's obsession with having firms like Gensler take over its visual design and use that as a way to put their own, "stamp" on new projects. Look at the concept art at 9:28. That could be the new Polynesian Tower lobby bar at Walt Disney World or the lobby bar of a Hyatt in Vancouver.
I like Brickey's attention to Disney's design history but I can't take anyone who thinks that the "beige mom" disaster that was the Jazz Kitchen redux (which Disney forced, by the way) tells a better visual story than the old New Orleans aesthetic, seriously. It's fine to incorporate a cohesive style guide for a property, and the old Downtown Disney was deeply rooted in that late 90's/early 2000's design language but you don't have to completely abandon interesting design style choices to make everything look like South Coast Plaza/Fashion Island.
Okay. . .
I think all of us who know world events, knows why "DISNEY" was okay with this building for Din Tai Fung.
There are 16 Din Tai Fung locations, of which 8, are I California. . . location in San Diego, Cosa Mesa, Santa Anita (inside the mall), and the other 5, I don't know where (you can look it up).
I agree that the food leans more towards the Taiwanese style. I have only gone to the Santa Anita Mall location.
And OBVIOUSLY, being that it's inside of the mall, it does not look like the DTD location, exteriorwise.
The food is VERY good. My favorite is the spicy beef soup, and the spicy wontons.
Back to the building itself, at DTD. . . should Din Tai Fung leave after a few years, Disney can always STILL get a good use out of that building. They can always turn it into a "Mulan" attraction. AND. . . lets not forget that Disney always has a Chinese New Year fest every year, so. . . the building would not be a total bad thing.
It is a very nice building. I love those style of old Chinese structures. This DTD location reminds me of when P.F. Changs first started to grow, and they would make similar style buildings (back when P.F. Changs has GOOD food).
I'm actually going to this DTD Din Tai Fung next week.
Now. . . there's something I will add about Din Tai Fung, as far as their menu goes. Every time I've heard anyone talk about it, it's always about the "dumplings" or the steamed buns. I have never had them, as I am not too into those items... but I will be trying them next week. I've had those items at other authentic mom and pop Chinese/Taiwanese restaurants that people have recommended to me, and I just don't find them to be that great.
IF there are more people like me, who are not that into these steamed buns and dumplings, and that is Din Tai Fungs claim to fame, I have a feeling that this place is not going to fair well at DTD.
But like I said. . . Disney can always refashion the building into an attraction space for "Mulan" "Turning Red" and "Big Hero 6".. . . and maybe lease out a corner of this building to Pick Up Stix or Panda Express.
It’s almost Googie style. Reminds me of the famous Beverly Hills gas station (hope it’s still there) with the sweeping roof just off Santa Monica Blvd.
Hey Hey Brickey I just subscribed to your channel
Very interested to see and hear what you think of the continued Gensler Effect™ is having on Disney architecture and experience design - having gone up against them a couple times they (and those that have graduated from their ranks and are now at the Dis) are formidable competition, but I don't think it's always a match made in entertainment heaven.
I should think the ESPN zone should be converted to become the Porto’s Bakery instead of the current Earl of Sandwich location even though food traffic will be horrendous there. The space inside is sufficient for dining and the kitchen might need some alterations to handle baking over general cooking, but it probably could be done. This is despite the contractual negotiation problems Disney and the Porto’s family are having.
That restaurant looks way better than anything else in DD since they rethemed it
So does anyone know where Porto’s will be at?
Next to the entrance of DCA
there’s one in Arcadia and one in Costa Mesa
I was just in so called “downtown Disney” for the first time. It’s a shopping mall. Why is it called “downtown Disney”? The name gives the area far too much credit.
I bought a $15 pretzel and a $9 frozen lemonade.
I heard many TH-cam and Podcast influencers pan the Jazz Kitchen building. Could it be possible that imagineers changed course? I hate the idea that they designed by stream of consciousness but the way they built out DTD, it is clear they may not be thinking long term.
I do understand what you are saying. But when you look at Mid-Century Modern design Asian culture was very much apart of this time. Much like Tiki culture that also came along within this time period. So I do see this as fitting in. Now as for the inside it is 100% designed to fit the tenant. I do love your videos keep going!!! Thank you.
We have that restaurant here in Seattle. It’s amazing.
For me, All I know is that the Disneyland Railroad is closing on August 5th, 2024
Why should Downtown Disney look uniformly generic? Throw in some heavily themed restaurants, why not?
If they did not take down the theater complex, there would be a bigger block between your theorized passageway to the DCA expansion or third gate.
I’m thinking the big gate between the end of Pixar Pier and the Boardwalk pizza pasta place would be the walkway to the expansion.
Wow
The problem isn't Din Tai Fung's building - it's the Disneyland Hotel behind it. The new aesthetic that DTD was going for definitely appears to be more upscale and modern. However, just yards from where the old Alamo and Disney vacations were situated is a 70+ year old hotel that has its own aesthetic it is going for, which is neither upscale nor modern. Forgetting whatever DisneylandForward has planned for the area in the far future, DTD designers had to come up with a way to bridge the new look of DTD with what couldn't be changed with the hotel. If the area is only temporary as a space filler until DisneylandForward begins construction, then this is a good, cheap way to bridge that time gap.
You are using solid logic but DTF doesn't really ruin the hotel guest experience.
Trader Sam's Enchanted Tiki Bar doesn't really ruin the hotel experience, despite the fact I think that bar should be more Tiki meets "Apollo Space Race" based upon the hotel architecture
It works because of the Adventure Land Tower connection.
Who doesn't want to get drunk drinking a Mai Tai then see a miniature model of a gorilla pointing a shotgun at it's face?
Weren’t all the westside tenants evicted because of the hotel they were going to build with tax $? Not so sure it was a stylistic choice.
Din Tai Fung needed a flagship So Cal standalone restaurant. DTFUSA as you said does not have a stand alone restaurant. They are all in Malls/large shopping plazas. They have no issue with leasing. I don’t think they will bail unless the global company hits some major crash. My guess is that while DTF is an international brand, they do not have the capital to construct large scale restaurants such as the one that just opened. Their only bet is to lease. I don’t think they will bail in 10 years. There is an ongoing influx of Chinese and Taiwanese nationals immigrating to the US as well as the ongoing foodie culture of California. The only place where they might swing and miss constructing a new stand alone site is probably in NorCal as they only have one location in Santa Clara and going into San Francisco is risky right now given the flight of businesses leaving their main shopping district.
I would not worry if DTF closes in 20 years. There is always a new rage Asian style of food where the next tenant could come in.
With only Napa Rose and now DTF, Disney did need a high-line restaurant since they got rid of Granville’s/Steakhouse 55.
The other part of the Star Wars store being made out of the RainForest Cafe. At this point, the Star Wars store is probably more profitable than it would have been if it stayed as the RFC. The food there is terrible, even against other novelty restaurants, which are all dying. It was good for families with young kids. But look at the Disneyland crowd. There are less families with young children attending on the regular compared to adults. And this is adults with older/teen+ children, young adults and up. And depending on the time of year and day of the week, the number of children attending vary significantly. The remaining RFC in So Cal in the Ontario Mills now is at best only a weekend crowd eatery. Most of the time, hardly anyone eats there. The gift shop is rarely busy. For the price, families are shying away from the chain. Considering the prices people pay for Disneyland, they can now get the same or better food inside the park and have better merchandise to choose from as souvenirs. Don’t lament the going away from cartoony or individual theming of Downton Disneyland of the past. There is no need for novelty restaurants anymore. That’s for inside the park, not a shopping and dining zone.
I'm not upscale
Easy! Pop two of those giant horses in front and make it a PF Changs!
You know I think they have a restaurant in South Coast plaza in Costa Mesa that has a restaurant too I may be wrong but I'm not really a fan of dumplings
They need outdoor dining seating for that place too.
Panda express flagship
Rainforest cafe and Tortilla Joe's were my favorite restaurants in Downtown Disney. Not a fan of overpriced dumplings...
Does Disney Springs have a consistent design style guide? I think they’re trying to make a socal version of that.
No, but it does have a story, and most things are designed to align with that story. Their main Asian restaurant is designed to look like an old bottling plant. Most of their restaurants (not the marketplace side) fit the theme of being various buildings in a small town vs. here where it just seems like anything goes.
I love the new, UPSCALE, Palm Springs look of Downtown Disney!!! …..but then again, I’m from L.A., not Montana or Indiana or Ohio. I don’t eat at Olive Garden, or Applebee’s, or Outback Steakhouse or Red Lobster (awful, bland chain restaurants). 😎
The entire new Downtown District expansion doesn’t match with Disneyland Forward. There’s no way to close Simba parking lot for park expansion since customers for Ding Tai Fung has no place to park. They also added a new security checkpoint at the same area. I wonder why they didn’t demolish the old Rainforest Cafe and EPSN Zone buildings instead and placed Din Tai Fung there to free up theme park space.