Why I Don't Care About Zelda Lore
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2024
- It's kinda bad
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This video contains gameplay from The Legend of Zelda Tears of the Kingdom for the Nintendo Switch in HD. Recently, I've noticed a large increase in negativity surrounding TotK. Seems like everywhere I look on the internet, there is someone saying Tears of the Kingdom is bad. One of the main things I see people say, is because it doesn't respect the Zelda lore and made people feel like the developers don't care. But what if I told you the Zelda developers never cared about the Zelda lore? There is a lot of inconsistencies and a lot of it doesn't make much sense. And if the Zelda team doesn't care, why should I care about the Zelda lore. So today I discuss why I don't care about the Zelda lore and all the issues it has. From the Zelda timeline, Skyward Sword, Tears of the Kingdom, Breath of the Wild. Is Zelda lore actually good or bad? I discuss all these topics and more in this video! I hope you enjoy!
Music:
• Battle! Friend - Poké...
• Xenoblade Chronicles X...
• Empire City (Night) - ...
• Sylvalum (night) - Xen...
• Sea Bottom Segue - Son...
• Arid Sands (Night) - S...
• Pirates - The Legend o...
• Gaur Plains (Night) - ...
• Chun-nan (Night) - Son...
• RUSH OF THE RAINFOREST...
Time Stamps
I Wish I Cared: 0:00
Why Should I Care?: 1:01
They Never Cared: 2:00
Skyward Sword: 3:41
Zelda Timeline is Dumb: 4:56
It Gets Worse: 7:15
A Personal Issue: 8:08
What do You Think?: 9:31
#zelda #tearsofthekingdom #totk - เกม
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Thanks for watching! If you enjoyed, consider liking the video Do you guys agree or disagree with me? I'm fully expecting a lot of people to not agree lol
Thank you for saying what needed to be said. TotK haters are ridiculous and absurd over the timeline nonsense.
Think about the jump from Ocarina to Majora's Mask. Pretty much no connection but two mind blowing games.
Its a beautiful example of how zeldas connect together, in that they will reuse assets, names, races, but never bother to bridge the gap with them, and they dont need to because that isnt the point.
yeah majoras mask is a sequel to ocarina but its in a whole different universe so that gave the zelda developers freedom to do what they want with it
the intro bro
why is your icon fredrick
Lol
I agree like 75 percent lol
I also think the timeline stuff is nonsensicle, especially given that it started as a fan theory.
As for the lore stuff itself, I enjoy it, but don't need it to make sense one game to the next. The franchise it called the "Legend" of Zelda, so I interpret that as each game being another tale of a hero, a princess, and a villain, and not continuous chapters in one story. But it is fun when they reference each other, whether by dialogue or by music, locations, etc.
Good video and interesting topic!
Yeah references are fun but I just like to think that most zelda games take place in a completely different universe from each other and not connected in 1 big timeline unless the game is supposed to be a sequel. Glad you enjoyed the video and thanks for watching :D
I think it's for this reason that I get much more invested in Metroid's lore than Zelda's, and why I was way more critical of certain issues with Metroid Dread's lore additions than Tears of the Kingdom's. Metroid stories feel much more designed to follow the history of the series as a whole, and they also continue the story of the same character from every previous game instead of just a new version of that character every time, making it much easier to get invested.
I think that the people who complained about them not caring about the lore continuity from botw to totk over dramatized it. like, the sheikah tech has not vanished. it's clearly present in the towers and in lookout landing. they probably just decided to get rid of the divine beasts because they were used by calamity ganon once to literally destroy the kingdom. I wouldn't wanna risk that from happening again. and the shrines probably went underground again, since their purpose had been fullfiled. they were underground before botw. some spots where shrines were kinda show this, and some other shrines were destroyed by the upheaval (lilke the ones in the great plateau) and probably ganondorf himself could have caused it. I love that the zelda lore is not always right down explained and you just have to put all this together from exploring and playing the game. some people expect a clear explanation and I think that would be as fun. anyway, all of this to say that, what I love about the lore is that it's implied but not written in stone, which also makes sense if you think about the fact that these games are supposed to happen thousands of years apart from each other too. and you are so right, these games were never created with a timeline in mind
I definitely am someone who likes everything to be said upfront and thats probably one of the reasons I don't pay attention or care about lore in most games because I don't want to go out of my way to put everything together. but I can see the appeal in trying to figure things out yourself
Subway surfers but link surfing instead on his icy meat XD. That's a creative idea.
😂 yeah when I need some background gameplay for a video I just enjoy trying to shield surf as long as possible because I think its entertaining
I agree, I watched like a hour long video explaining the lore a while back, I thought the 3 timelines were kinda ridiculous and felt just thrown together, I couldn’t wrap my head around any of the explanation or the reasoning for why ocarina of time was the cause of 3 timelines, oh and not to mention how the breath of the wild and Totk don’t even fit into any of the timelines either
yeah I understand people wanting to connect all the games together because it would be cool. But it gets really complicated when you try and make sense of it all. Enjoying the games and their worlds separately makes things much easier
Nintendo just Rejigging the story with every release had been happening since the beginning.
>Zelda 1 (The Hyrule Fantasy)
>it's the first
>Zelda 2 (The Adventure of Link)
>direct sequel of Zelda 1 with the same protagonist
>Zelda 3 (A Link to the Past)
>actually seems unconnected to other (specific) games, but was stated since release to be a distant prequel of every Zelda released before
>Zelda 4 (Link's Awakening)
>direct sequel of Zelda 3 with the same protagonist
>Zelda 5 (Ocarina of Time)
>distant prequel of every game so far
>Zelda 6 (Majora's Mask)
>direct sequel of Zelda 5 with the same protagonist
>Zelda 7 (Oracle of Seasons)
Released as contemporary of Zelda 8 with the same protagonist
>Zelda 8 (Oracle of Ages)
Released as contemporary of Zelda 7 with the same protagonist
>Zelda 9 (Four Swords)
>actually seems unconnected to other (specific) games, but was stated since release to be a distant prequel of every Zelda released before
>Zelda 10 (The Wind Waker)
>distant sequel of Zelda 5
>Zelda 11 (Four Swords Adventures)
>distant sequel of Zelda 9
>Zelda 12 (The Minish Cap)
>distant prequel of Zelda 9/11
>Zelda 13 (Twilight Princess)
>distant sequel of Zelda 5
>Zelda 14 (Phantom Hourglass)
>direct sequel of Zelda 10
>Zelda 15 (Spirit Tracks)
>distant sequel of Zelda 10/14
>Zelda 16 (Skyward Sword)
>distant prequel of every single game
>Zelda 17 (A Link between Worlds)
>distant sequel of Zelda 3/4
>Zelda 18 (Triforce Heroes)
>direct sequel of Zelda 17
>Zelda 19 (Breath of the Wild)
>massively distant sequel of all the games in one of the timelines (we don't know which one tho)
>Zelda 20 (Tears of the Kingdom)
>direct sequel of Zelda 19
>"this series is just a different world each time"
>"the devs don't care"
my brain isnt big enough to understand all this
@@247MrNiceguy maybe if I simplified it a bit:
>Zelda 2 becomes a sequel to LoZ
>LttP because a prequel to the other two.
>LA was a maybe sequel a LttP, also originally took place during II.
>OoT a prequel for EVERYTHING above.
>MM a sequel to OoT
>OoS and OoA their own thing, unless you have a Japanese magazine that say it come after LttP
>FS was just a party game
>WW is a sequel of OoT.... 100 years after the adult timeline.
>FSA another party game that sequel of FS
>MC the prequel FOR EVERYTHING ABOVE IT.
>TP is the sequel of OoT from the child timeline
>PH is the sequel of WW
>ST the sequel of PH
>SS THE PREQUEL OF EVERYTHING ABOVE IT.
>LBW a distant sequel of LttP
>TH as a sequel to LBW
>BoTW.... at the end. Whatever that means.
>TotK is the sequel of BotW
Yet the only games in that list that was an actual sequel which intended to show an overall progression were the two windwaker sequels nobody played and fanboys hated. You can say this or that is a sequel or prequel but uh...it doesn't matter, not a single one requires or even benefits from having played the other.
Hell, for the first two games Link was a Christian, then suddenly theres the goddess lore instead and the crusader angle is out the door and never mentioned again.
@@daniel8181 A Christian in search of magic wish granting golden doritos? Never read any passage which even hinted at such a story in the Bible.
@@javiervasquez625 It wasnt based on the bible, it was based on medieval Christendom. The Bible is an item in the second game that disarms monsters, The triforce was originally only one piece and was the trinity, link had a crucifix on his shield, he's seen praying in a church in the prologue inside the game booklet, etc. It was only downplayed in alttp because there was some american hysteria at the time that caused nintendo to remove explicit references, thats why the church in alttp looks the way it does. From there OoT went in a whole new direction with a polytheistic religion, which was quickly turned monotheistic or perhaps triune at some point (i dont remember which game exactly), however, OoT did maintain some early Christian inspirations such as the gothic cathedral, the crusades conflict, and for a whoooooole year before the 1998 goty edition of oot, explicit references to islam in both the fire and spirit temples.
alright so i might be late to the stream because im going to a picnic at noon and dont know when i'll be back.
I hope you had fun at the picnic!
Now this has to do with the mario ttyd stream and this is a change with the remake. But now the game has battle music variations each chapter has its own battle theme and when your in a special area like hooktails castle it plays a battle theme named (special battle theme) special battle theme is reserved for dungeony areas i wknt say the other areas it plays in for spoiler reasons. so yeah id recommend listening to the battle theme each time you reach a new chapter to hear its variation.
Nice thats a cool change!
Miyamoto did care about lore and continuity, and even understood that lore contradictions would make fans feel betrayed. Aonuma on the other hand does not care and feels the lore restricts them, while Miyamoto insists on them keeping everything coherent.
The timeline they published has a lot of errors, but every game has always been a sequel and prequel to each other, there has always been a chronology of the series from the start. The issue comes with them shooting themselves in the foot with retcons from game to game, starting with OOT.
Before OOT, the timeline was linear and very coherent. Zelda 2 was a sequel to Zelda 1, ALTTP was a prequel to both NES games, and Link's awakening a sequel to it.
Ocarina was meant to be a retelling of the Imprisoning War from ALTTP, but they changed their minds half way through development, and changed so many details about the backstory it was basically impossible for it to be that, despite key events of that backstory taking place, but differently.
Despite this, they probably wanted ALTTP to follow the adult era of Ocarina, but then they released Wind Waker, shooting themselves into the foot again.
So with the release of the book, they tried to shoehorn the "downfall timeline" by killing Link, and changing the game lore to try to accommodate it (which I don't agree with)
The lore of the series is great, but simultaneously frustrating because of the clash of philosophies of the developers.
But even with TOTK, Fujibayashi stated they ensured that the lore did not contradict anything of the past games (and for that to be the case, everything of these games, including the ancient past, would have to take place so far in the future the old Hyrule we knew was destroyed and forgotten)
Yeah that was definitely an overexaggeration on my end when I said they never cared about the lore because there definitely has been moments where they did care. It just always felt kinda inconsistent to me because some games try to stay true to the lore while others don't. I do think it is a cool idea that all the games are connected, but it gets a little too confusing when you try and make sense of it all. But that's just my personal taste and I enjoy when games are more straightforward and explain their lore instead of having to put everything together myself with theories. The lore can be fun to think about but I find enjoying each game on its own to be easier
It’s okay to not really care. I don’t really care aswell. I started the game off reading all the dialogue and I slowly stopped reading it because in my opinion I think it was pretty half-assed.
I enjoy the main story in Zelda games but the lore surrounding it never really interested me
IMO Zelda lore died when Fujibayashi became lead director, at least Aonuma pretended to care about continuity and competent story-telling. Meanwhile Koizumi legitimately cared about it, which is one of the key reasons why OoT and MM are great.
It's crazy cause Fujibayashi directed Skyward Sword which is one of the most lore heavy games, but maybe he didn't have as much influence as we thought at that time.
@@RMM342 It might be one of the most "lore-heavy" but it's also one of the biggest lore-breaking games as well. Retconning Zelda into an incarnated goddess and devaluing Ganon(dorf) as a puppet for Demise's hatred was not well-liked among the Zelda community at the time. But at the end of the day, it's probably Miyamoto calling the shots at what gets focus and what doesn't.
Interesting I never really thought about which director focused more on different things but thats a good point
Subway surfer footage as b-roll: ❌
Shield surfer footage as b-roll: ✅
Okay, but my actual comment with thoughts.
So, I've always enjoyed the lore from the standpoint of it feeling like a neat puzzle where I could shift pieces around and find connecting points and see if it fits. I remember having a wall of post it notes like a crazy person and then having to take them down when Hyrule Historia came out and my timeline head canon was wrong lol.
As far as overarching lore goes, I don't think it's as inconsistent in terms of the world rules as people say. We have a creation myth that gets repeated in several entries, and something of a pantheon of gods that stays relatively consistent.
The Timeline itself is another cuppa tea. I don't care for the downfall timeline either, I think they could have shuffled all of those games into the child timeline and left it at that, but that is me.
All of that said, while I have *enjoyed* the lore, I don't care about it in the sense of it being something that I'll ever find upsetting to the point of it being a dealbreaker for me. The gameplay always has and always should come first, and the Zelda devs nail that. The lore side of things is just flavour. I enjoy flavour. But I enjoy the gameplay the most, that's the real meat of the experience.
I've seen some people argue the opposite, that a good story should be the first priority, but if I'm being honest, I just don't agree. A game can have the most compelling story in the world but if I don't find the game fun to play then I am just not going to see it through. As you said, that is what separates video games from other forms of media like film or literature.
TL:DR, the lore is fun for me, but it's always gonna be a second priority to the gameplay
Yeah I can totally understand how people find it fun to try and make all the games fit together and craft theories around it. For me personally, I enjoy when a game/story is more direct with its lore and explains everything. I think that's one of the main reasons Zelda lore never captured my interest and I wish I would have explained that a bit more in my video, its just a preference thing. But I pretty much agree with everything else you said
@@247MrNiceguy oh it’s absolutely a preference thing, and I am the first to acknowledge that I have very niche tastes haha
Honestly, I think your view of things is probably the more popular line of thinking. I don’t think it’s accurately reflected in the Zelda-creator-space with how many lore-focused ‘tubers there are out there. It’s ironic because Zelda has always excelled in the main stream for its excellent game design, but most content about the games is about its lore. Strange, isn’t it?
Thanks for the reply homie
We need to see links meat shield oiled up
ayo 😳
I personally valuate a Zelda games story as a standalone story unique to the game, like Ocarina of Time. OoT is enjoyable story wise to me, it’s adequate and fun. Some games came before OoT in the timeline like Minish cap… OoT isn’t a direct sequel, but it is after, and it doesn’t mention Minish cap at all, which is fine.
What’s NOT fine, is when you ARE a direct sequel, hell even the same HYRULE CHARACTERS AND EVERYTHING, and decide to completely obliterate a huge story point in your previous game.
All this to say, where are the guardians? You’re a direct sequel, stay consistent with the important things please.
yeah I don't blame anyone for wanting the games to be all connected because it would be cool. But it gets confusing and I find it easier to just enjoy each game on its own
I agree with you, probably much to your surprise.
I no longer care about the lore; this series has fallen flat on its face.
You know how Nintendo gets Xenoblade’s devs (Monolith) to do the worldbuilding of their games? Maybe they should ask Takahashi and some of those guys for a story idea. Though that probably won’t happen; as they don’t care.
Here's to hoping the Master Works book coming this August will redeem Nintendo at least on the eyes of the faithful who still cling at the idea they have any idea of what they're doing with this franchise aside from experimenting new gameplay mechanics for mere gameplay's sake.
Series fell on its face?
Name one time the lore was worth caring about. Link started off as a Christian warrior, the consistency of the lore is about on par with the consistency of the art style and gameplay, you're just coping because they did something new and now your fanfiction doesnt line up.
If Takahashi wrote the story for a Zelda game, that would get me more hyped for a Zelda game than anything else could lol
@@daniel8181the GameCube era was where the continuity was the strongest with the series. The connections between OOT and The Wind Waker and how everything changed and remembered the past, or Twilight Princess with it's connections to OOT and Majora's mask.
Same for the pre-OOT release era. The timeline of events was linear and easy to follow.
Contrary to what people thinks, Miyamoto did care about continuity and fully understood that mistakes in continuity would betray players.
Aonuma on the other hand has gone in record to not care about the continuity as he feels it restricts him, and that he is asked by Miyamoto to keep the lore consistent.
Some people in the team care, others don't. It's a mixed bag, and that's the main issue.
@@ZeldaLore Aonuma has been calling shots since oot, and the continuity you are talking about is literally "heres a vague reference to a thing that happened that sounds like another game"
It wasnt any deeper than totk having the fierce diety armor as a side quest.
WW is the only game that even tries and its not even important.
I've seen people say things along the lines of "if Hyrule can just be destroyed and rebuilt with no mention whatsoever, what's the point of caring about a continuity". Personally, I reach that point when the main characters just reincarnate every game and play out essentially the same story of "hero defeats villain with help from princess whom he saves". I've always said that the ideas such as reincarnation and Demise's curse that drive the timeline just feel like conveniant in-universe excuses to have multiple Zelda games, and at that point I'd much rather the stories just be game to game. In Tears of the Kingdom for example, the highlight of the story for me didn't come from trying to connect it to legends of the past, but rather from the moment to moment interactions with the people of Hyrule and seeing the various ways they contribute to the conflict, and thinking back, I think that's also the case for most other Zeldas I've played (Link's relationships with the Ordonians in Twilight Princess being another great example). I've viewed and enjoyed several videos from people like NintendoBlackCrisis and Zeltik making theories on the lore, but even in the Breath of the Wild days I'd mostly just see it as headcanon (you'll never convince me Nintendo put one bit of text about malice in Skyward Sword planning for it to be foreshadowing for Breath of the Wild). I understand wishing Zelda stories were structured in such a way to allow for stronger lore, but I also wouldn't say the Wild games destroyed the lore of the series since it's always been super messy. Skyward Sword's time travel makes literally zero sense, and the infamous downfall timeline exists only because Ocarina of Time pulled an Age of Calamity.
" what's the point of caring about a continuity"
If you see anyone making that argument, make sure to notify them about how much of an idiot they are.
NOBODY ever even ONCE in the almost fourty year history of Zelda ever even suggested players should care about continuity. Its literally something lore weirdos made up in their head and started stating as fact of matter.
The two times Nintendo tried to throw those weirdos a bone by creating an official timeline and by making skyward sword to give the cycle an origin, it was flatly rejected by those people, and done so with such spite and aggression that Nintendo decided to completely frigging ignore them from that point onwards - leading to massive financial and critical success.
yeah having all the zelda games be connected in a timeline is cool and fun to think about so I don't blame people for trying to make sense of it. but it gets confusing and I find it easier to just enjoy each game on its own
@@247MrNiceguy Agreed! I have no problem with a slight connection between the games being implied, but I don't need it to be this crazy over-arching narrative.
You should play the totk randomiser
its sad you are no linger as popular
It's kind of like the final fantasy series on PlayStation, there's only a select few that follow each other, there's no timeline, there's no lore, they're just great games, there's no representation of the game before it, so I understand completely what you're talking about 🤘🏽🔥
true. I never played a Final Fantasy game before but I have heard that most of the games in the series are not connected. Thanks for watching!
Honestly, to say they never cared is nonsensical when you consider how the original presented a story right out the gate. Something that was rarely ever done back then. Compared to something like Mario, Zelda has always been the more detailed video game franchise in terms of lore. So I’m sorry, but I just can’t agree with that statement. It just feels like a lazy way to fight criticism of TotK. It’s perfectly fine if you’re not invested in the lore, but a lot of people are. Honestly, I wish BotW and TotK were just completely separate from the other games so they wouldn’t have to follow up on so much previously established stuff.
I wouldn't say that story = lore. I enjoy zelda games story but the lore connecting all the games is just confusing. Story and lore are different things
@@247MrNiceguy lore relates to the history of the world, which is the what the original game’s title scroll explains. Even if you wanna ignore that, saying they never cared about it is just straight up ignoring almost every single Zelda game. Skyward Sword itself was all around the beginning of the Zelda timeline. Speaking of which, who created the Zelda timeline? Nintendo. If they never cared about the lore, why would they release an official timeline? My whole point is that if Nintendo never cared about that stuff, why establish it to begin with?
Yeah man, the first one, right out the gate, where Link was coming back from the Crusades, as a Christian.
so consistent, I remember how ocarina had muslims in it for a whole year before being censored, thats how incredibly consistent it was, two games later we got temporary confirmation that Link fought the friggin moors.
"why even make a timeline if they didnt care"
Gonna paraphrase here because I cant find the article, but aonuma said something along the lines of "we didnt know anyone wanted to know this information, i have an internal timeline for me to use" followed by the announcement of HH with "yeah we put the timeline in there for you guys"
If they thought it was worth looking at, something you needed to know, why did aonuma keep the timeline to himself up until the 25th anniversary? Why did he act surprised when asked about it?
You could argue "well why does he have it then?" but as aonuma explained, its just a tool for him to keep some consistency, which he obviously doesnt adhere too tightly too because the games constantly contradict each other.
the simple fact is: The makers of Zelda never did and never will care about the story nearly as much as hardcore fans do.
Aonuma himself admitted to the fact multiple times, that stories in Zelda are mere afterthoughts and that they focus on gameplay first.
(One of those times was ironically within the Hyrule Historia of all things.)
Since I knew this for a long time already, the way they handled TOTKs story didn't come as much of a surprise.
Though I suppose how TOTK handled the story, is Aonuma's mindset at its most blatant yet.
To the point where even the most delusional believer, can't see otherwise.
(And admittedly the first time they handled a direct sequel in that manner.)
But yeah, you can care about story and lore all you like.
But the simple truth is: Aonuma and the devs will never care nearly as much as you guys do.
Aonuma has said and demonstrated countless times, that they only see story as an afterthought, that's not really that important.
No amount of wishful thinking and yelling will change that.
Thumbnail was so straightforward 💀
lmao gotta make a thumbnail that catches peoples attention
Moo
The background footage is good l enjoyed it
I like the lore because of zeldas chests
lmao okay you bring up a good point
Ay wtf man
i remember when i used to watch you alot and the face reveil also i got the botw dlc becase your vids on master trails
That's awesome!
Cool Video Bro!
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed :D
No Problem.
The intro 💀
haha gotta start the video on a banger
I agree and dont at teh same time also hello
Hey! Thanks for watching the video :D
This guy is the comment reader moster.
I leave no comment left unread 😈
Dang he beat me to first
at least that means you dont get blue shelled
@@247MrNiceguybruh
:(
turn that frown upside down :)
@@247MrNiceguy ): I did what you asked. I just also moved the eyes...
433 views in 6 hours, bro fell off
why is it even a trend to write that comment under every video. its just annoying
@@247MrNiceguyfr
@@247MrNiceguy 0 likes in 6 hours of this comment bro fell of..
@@Zeldaplayer838lie
Lore rhymes with bore
😂
I bet you care about xenoblade lore
indeed! Xenoblade lore is probably the only gaming lore I do care about because of how well written and interesting it is. Although there are a few things I dont like that they introduced in XC3
First
blue shell
You'll probably blow up on this video from the hate alone. Zelda fanboys treat the "lore" as the beating heart of the series even though nintendo is pretty explicit about not considering it at all. If they accept this then they have even less reason to say the new games are the worst thing ever.
lol yeah this was a video I wanted to make but was worried about posting because I knew it might cause people to dislike or unsub
@@247MrNiceguy I mean if sales numbers are to be believed, there are significantly more people that like the game for...the game, than like the game for a perceived saga of shakespearian dramas, and captbergeson still gets plenty of views and comments despite having angered that crowd several times over, haha.
the title sucks
i mean I think the title is pretty accurate because I talk about why I dont care about zelda lore in the video lol
First
blue shell