Polaris VS Perseus Comparison | Star Citizen
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Who’s here 2 years later like I am frothing because you’re about to get your Polaris pretty soon?
With regards to the roles of the ships, I remember watching a Q&A where it was broken down roughly as:
Javelin - Destroyer
Idris - Carrier with Railgun
Polaris - Long range torpedo boat
Hammerhead - Anti fighter screen
Perseus - Hybrid between Hammerhead and Polaris, torpedo boat with two turrets - Fleet defence ship.
Afaik the Perseus is also said to be extremely well armored for it's size so it can likely handle heavier weapon hits than normal ships of it's size.
In reality, carriers are heavier armed than destroyers, which are really just meant to screen the carriers from subs and other threats.
An Idris is in no way a match for modern carriers - that's the Bengal or Pegasus.
The javelin also packs too much firepower to really act as a destroyer.
I'd say Idris is frigate, Polaris destroyer, hammerhead/Perseus corvettes, javelin is a cruiser, Pegasus a light carrier, Bengal a carrier, and the big fucking ships are battleships/battlecruisers
I would love to see an Anvil capital ship that sits in the Polaris category. I would also like to see Anvil create a competitor to the Nautilus.
I started using AutoCAD to concept one out just for giggles. I came up with several general shapes. At first I was trying for a large hangar but it would have been to large. I did have a few concept shapes though with med and small hangars in the Idris size. Im in your channel if you wanted to get a community concept going.
I like to see a drone ship with fighter drone and repair drone. it could send repair drone with fighter drone to the damaged ship. fighter drone would protect the repair drone to fix hull damages. armament would be similar to the Nautilus. with a pair of size 7s to snip other ships while sitting in the back playing a support role.
M2. Exe
The Anvil Cruiser
please not another capital concept. we haven't got a single capital fly rdy yet. They are all still in the concept.
For me it comes down to logistics. Polaris due to its crew size is something I would only be able to bring out on weekends/special times where as the Perseus is something I could take out every night with a few friends and still run high tier combat missions. In other words ill get more hours of enjoyment out of my Perseus than my Polaris.
I agree. But the Perseus is so over priced even by playing the CC game which is an absolute must its way too expensive for what amounts to a 4-5 man ship
@@lenbone72 see how good we were in trying to be fair. We didn’t talk about the prices once. Probably because the conversation ranged all over.
Polaris dont need a crew to shoot torpedo so ! I think you should inform yourself before speaking :)
@@TheIceJester That is just factually inaccurate CIG has said it will be a multi crew ship.
@@TheIceJester looks like you need to inform yourself lol
CIG have mentioned for the polaris, it grew in size (big suprise right?) And it got capital shields (upgraded from large). One more thing, the perseus has very strong armor and thus will kill the hammerhead in a 1 vs 1 because of its pen power that the hammerhead not has.
The Polaris has become more of a torpedo Frigate, hangar that can fit 5 Anvil arrows, 2-3 gladius or 1 Vanguard loose ( they may nerf it to 2-3small fighter or 1 medium on mag locks so it doesn’t step on the idris’s toes) likely a respawn bed.
The Perseus is still a corvette/ coastguard cutter it will have a bed like the Cutlass red.
The Perseus will have the power of 8 fighters or 2 hammerheads for only 5 crew at a fraction of the cost. Of repairing, fueling, arming, storing 5 fighters. Or 2 hammerheads, the hammerheads already obsolete.
The Polaris will have the power of 8 fighters but requires 12-24 crew at inflated cost because of torpedos, fighters, fuel, the medical bed etc.
But has the devastating potential of 24 1 hit kill to anything below a merchantman torpedos.
@@jugganaut33 Where is the /sarcasme?
Not sure on the HH vs Perseus as they both have armour but I do tend to agree the Perseus seems to have the gun advantage but will have to wait and see due to the number of turrets but I think it then becomes a crew problem... Exe
@@inforunners when armor comes in the size of the guns matter,and the lore says already the perseus had so much armour because back in the day it didnt had shields. Plus size of the guns will matter if you can pen the armor or not. so that will deminish the whole dps adavantage the hammerhead has.
@@inforunners The Hammerhead can pick different guns so could pick railguns and (no pun intended) hammer the Perseus weak spots like turrets, engines, bridge, hatches and the like to cripple it. It would however have to specialize it's weapon setup in that case and would be less useful against fighters.
The Perseus can on the other hand pummel it at standoff range.
As per Star Citizen Live, IAE 2951 All ships Q&A ,CIG has buffed the Polarises cooler,power plant and shield generator to capital size and grew about 5% to fit extra rooms.This makes it close to 200 m.Thats twice the size of a Perseus.I suspect the quantum and hydrogen fuel tanks will be changed accordingly as well.IMO the Polaris is the better ship.
ah yes 155+5%=200
5% = 5/100 = (5*1.55)/155 = 7.75/155
So 5% increase on a 155m ship :
5/100 * 155 = 7.75/155 * 155 = 7.75
So if the Polaris is 5% longer, it will be 162.75m long (155 + 7.75).
You are closer to 150m than 200m.
I respect your opinion, however, I personally wouldnt say "better", i'd just say "bigger".
@@FederalNewsNetwork1138 Maybe .But the Polaris goes..+capital radar, +Hangar Deck,+Med Bay,+Armory,+XO (fighter pilot) quarters,+200 scu cargo capacity ,+higher speed,+ 28 size 10 torpedoes .Agreed,it is bigger but better at the same time.Just wait until they disclose the upgrades on the loadout as well.I would expect a size 5 to 7 on the forward guns and 3 to 4 on the turrets.Each to its own opinion/taste though.
@@Endeka-11 The turrets are already all S4 (beside the Chin) And shouldn't get a buff. S5 turrets are already slow and are meant as STS weapons. The Polaris is better with S4, which is the biggest calliber meant for fighters.
20:55 This is why I hate that they call the Javelin a destroyer... it makes no sense..... Polaris, Perseus, and Hammerhead should be destroyers/Destroyer Leaders/Destroyer Escorts, Idris should be a Cruiser, Javelin should be a Battleship.
"RSI built the Bengal" is more like CR slapped his name onto the flagship class of the UEE back when he dreamed up this project. ALL of the lore and design specs came later.
Hammerhead, Perseus, and Nautilus seem to be brothers to me.
Perseus: Offensive
Nautilus: Defensive
Hammerhead: Right in the middle
I honestly believe this is CIG's intent.
Its like they planned it?! Exe
Perseus: Breaks defensive lines of medium or larger ships. When the fleet charges or makes pushes they give additional firepower and is built to take out the craft that could cause fighters problems and/or draw the attention of large and capitol ships.
Nautilus: Set up area of denial for capital ships and maybe medium craft. Force the opposition's heavy hitters to move into lanes of attack. I think this ship will be doing a lot more before a battle comes to a head.
Hammerhead: Anti-fighter and bomber platform that can still deal with moderately sized warships. So would probably work near the Nautilus's mine field to take care of flanking fighters.
Polaris: General use patrol ship and corvette, can hold it's own or work in a fleet but in general built to go toe to toe with large and medium ships easily and handle itself against fighter squadrons. I think they will play a role in scouting ahead, be an early warning ship, and act as a capitol defense ship in large fleets, or the command ship in smaller ones.
Add a Kraken as the flag ship, and thats my dream fleet foundation.
@@ost1847 Who said Hammerhead was defensive though? - It’s right in the middle, can take either posture.
You know I think we have that wrong - Perseus is defensive. It has the guns to let the enemy come to it. Where the Hammmerhead cannot wait for the enemy to approach - it has to advance to bring its guns to bear.
Polaris is also therefore defensive. It has the weapons range to wait for its opponent.
Such beautiful ships...own em both :)
Same 💕
and now i do too...managed to squeeze down the Polaris to 365 USD so now my Perseus is more expensive.
@@niklasdahlgren7641 Very nice, welcome to the club. :)
In the more recent ship Q&As didn't the ship teams confirm that the Polaris will have capital powerplant, shields and cooler? Along with xs hanger?
Yes that is correct "Star Citizen Live: IAE 2951 All Ships Q&A" towards the very end they talk about it.
you are correct sir
@@rooster1012 yep, it's been upgunned and has had a component size increase. Strange that a channel that prides itself on relating information doesn't know this.
Well there ya go. The Matrix of Lies Strikes Back! Exe
@@inforunners That's quite alright, its tough when info is spread so far apart, I think you did a commendable job at the discussion, fly safe o7
What I would do to make the Perseus competitive with the Polaris, is to give it another S3 point defence turret, a larger cargo area that could hold 2 rovers or at least 1 large vehicle and some troops, W/large weapon racks/suit lockers (like the Carrack), plus add a med bed. In this way it does something the Polaris does not do, small ground missions. Or just give it a larger cargo hold and either a railgun or missile turret.
So what you want is basically a different ship since it would no longer be the patrol boat but simply a different Polaris.
a patrol boat that can assist ground Ops, sounds pretty cool.
(edit) better support ground ops, it already has a ramp and cargo hold to accommodate a Rover/ small ground Vics
@@niklasdahlgren7641 Did I say hangar bay and extremely large torpedoes ? A Gun boat and a long range patrol boat is what the Perseus is. It might need a few troops for boarding actions and ground uprisings against the UEE.. There's nothing wrong with it. It should be able to do more than 1 thing, destroying other ships. There are many manufactures that will be making more Polaris type ships in game, like Anvil, Drake and Aegis to name a few. The Odyssey is already very similar, minus the huge torpedoes.
The Perseus isn't supposed to be remotely competitive to the Polaris. It's a whole class under it in fact. Like comparing a Freelancer DUR to a Carrack. The Perseus is brother to the Hammerhead and Nautilus. The Polaris is the little brother of the Idris.
@@captainharlock3998 If you watched the vid. they asked what would make the Perseus more competitive with the Polaris and that was my answer. And yes the Perseus is not a Cap ship .
Something else that could be added to the ships in the place of the hangar could be something similar to a "Friendly" QED. A jump to me/quick reinforcement style thing. if they combo'd that with a C&C or a scout/recon style (Possibly allowing for stealth to "jump" behind enemy formations) I think that could be a major boost for fleet combat.
This reminds me of talk on how World of Warships has different size and weapons with different kinds of targets. Destroyer vs cruiser vs battleship, paper/rock/scissors.
Thing about range that is often forgotten is that it’s not just about jumping from A to B, Sometimes it’s about jumping from A to B to C to D to E to F without having to reload and refuel and step out of the objective. It’s like the odyssey, it can jump from A to Z constantly if it has too until the food and water runs out. We talk about blockade runners a lot, rarely talk about blockade ships, Perseus is a blockade ship. Polaris is more of a hit and run ship.
I do have an upgrade Hammerhead > Polaris but I’m sitting on my Hammerhead. It’s a defensive ship, it will be useful for fleet defence against small ships and torpedoes.
The dream would be a Polaris style ship which could fit a redeemer in the hangar. Good vs cap ships due to torps but with a fighter deterrent on board. At best though I hope to squeeze a couple of heavy fighters in my Polaris. 2x hurricanes or 1 vanguard. Yes I know size of landing pad etc. but if it fits, it fits.
I'm with Badgers on this one, sign me up for team Perseus! The Perseus reminds me of a WW2 German Deutschland class commerce raider for sure.
In terms of an upscale Peruses I think there will be an Anvil capital sized gunship that might be a more Polaris sized Perseus if not a bit bigger. Casse Aerospace's founder was working on a design for a long range patrol ship contract for the Xi'an front before he died in 2615. All of Casse Aerospace's IP including that patrol ship design was purchased by J.Harris Arnold in the early years of Anvil Aerospace. Arnold has cited Casse's work as a major inspiration for his designs which is evident in many of Anvil's ships. It would make sense for Arnold to iterate on this design given there is still a need for such a ship just for the Vanduul front instead of the Xi'an one.
Really good insight on this video guys. Particularly loved some of Drinkers points!
I cannot lie, we particularly wanted Badgers in this one exactly for that reason.
One thing that really bugs me are radars are HUGE especially ones that can see hundreds of KM.
But there’s absolutely no visual locator for the radars it’s just a “thing”
There’s no physical machinery to damage.
It’s just a box in the ship.
If a ship has a large radar it needs a Radome or large sensor face for a scanner.
Not just a box in the ship.
I could see the RSI Mantis fitting into the Polaris' bay, would make for an excellent interdiction/inspection ship. Have a Legionaire flying convoy to do the boarding, it could dock with the Polaris after to transfer prisoners to the brig.
Personally I see the Perseus more as the WW2 Destroyer Escort, and the Polaris more like a modern Aegis Destroyer. The Javelin is closer to a gun cruiser, BUT as a Destroyer in the continuity, that drops the Polaris down into that Destroyer Escort slot, but a modernized version.
In relation to the sub capital class ships, the Polaris is the "jack of all trades" while the Hammerhead and Perseus are the specialists. Basically they crammed a HH and a Perseus together, scaled up the torps, and added a fighter bay.
I really, really wish we had more fleshed out Vanduul ships so we could theory craft what Vanduul events might look like.
Yes! This is the video I needed. As someone who has been waiting patiently for my two most anticipated ships in the game, I’ve been yearning for new Polaris and Perseus videos. Literally watched all of the main TH-cam page ones. 😂😂😂
Also a suggestion: would Inforunners ever be down to do a video talking about “The Impact of Fleet Gameplay” and how running a fleet or group of players will really change the dynamics of combat in the Verse?
I would watch this, and how different compositions of fleets would operate in the verse and what impact each one could have.
I'd also like to see their discussions about very large and very small organizations and what sort of impact they might have
@@dutchmutt7878 That'd be nice. I'm in an organization of 20-25 extremely active people and have been wondering what kind of impact a small tight-knit group such as mine could have on the Verse.
Polaris is the probably the smallest ship that offers everything I want to do ingame. It has a hanger and a rover. Carries decent cargo and has the armement to shrug pirates and smaller enemies.
Plus that capital class radar is probably gonna be a great early warning system to let you know if it's time to get the hell out of an area fast if something bigger than you want to deal with is approaching. Fire up that quantum drive and get out of there before you're even in enemy engagement range. I think it'll do more for letting you pick and choose your battles than most other ships, since the only other ship with a capital sized radar as of this current time is the Javelin.
I have added this to the discord discussion as well..........
Good Evening,
I wanted to say something about the Perseus and CIGs ship size clarifications. Now we know that they are all over the place and that simply is because they are still learning. They are still learning about classifications should be. They are still learning about the world they are creating. And they are still learning about their ship manufacturers.
That being said, I think that they hit the nail on the head classifying the Perseus as a Frigate. I was on FFGs for years and while I can't talk about the splitting hairs of what makes a corvette vs Frigate I can say that it feels like a Frigate.
The FFG was primarily a Sub hunter. It was designed to be agile and deadly to the submarine attackers. It was very good at that job. We even during a training exercise was able to take out the CNO's sub. But thoes types of battles are few and far between. So from a day to day use view, in my experience, a Frigate runs most of the time solo doing jobs like deny flight, Pickett lines and patrol areas. The Perseus is perfect for these types of jobs. It is also perfect for sending in, in advance of the main NAVY to test out the waters as it is more expendable than your larger ship like an Idris.
Now if CIG were to go back and revisit their classifications and if CIG then decided that the Perseus should be a Corvette then I would say that the Polaris would fall into the Frigate spot.
But thoes are just my thoughts.
Last I heard the Legionaire should fit into the Polaris' hangar.
As more of a solo player I go for Perseus. If you ask me the biggest problem is getting enough people to do anything and not the ships. For Perseus you need 3 people to get it up and running. How many do you need to get Polaris where all main stations are manned? If 12 you could man 4 Perseus with that number. I would go for 4 Perseus any time of the day over 1 Polaris.
My 2 favorite jpeg hangar queens . I can't bring myself to get rid of either .
The perseus is my favorite ship design in SC. I like ships with top bridges and i like deck guns . It is like an old school navy destroyer. It is just epic . Can't wait to stand on the bridge .
A man of culture I see
battleship guns going off is the coolest thing I have ever seen/felt. The concussion, smoke, roar. Jeez I need this in this game!
One thing that I think y'all had in mind but never brought up was the ability to operate on it's own. The Polaris is designed to operate with little to no support for a while, that's mostly why it has such a large cargo area. In my opinion I think the Polaris is Star Citizen's ballistic missile sub analogue in that regard. While the Perseus by the very nature of it's ballistic ammo and small cargo is relegated to always be with a support fleet. Also the Polaris almost has a whole Hammerhead's worth of AA armament, even 2 missile turrets. I do agree though that the 2 ships are complimentary to each other.
55:08 TL;DR: Capital sized ships are too defensive in nature by preferring to hold the line or get in and get out. Lets see some aggressive capitals meant to cause a ruckus like a Javelin/Perseus hybrid.
I'm coming to this video late, but I think the up scaled Perseus would be a down scaled Javelin. A roughly 180-230m vessel with an arrow like shape but the broadside style Javelin turrets with big main guns and smaller fight defense guns on top. Keeping the excessive armor its purpose would be to fly into enemy formations and tear a hole big enough for a Polaris or multiple Perseus(Perseuses? Perseusi? Perseese?) to fly in and cause havoc. We have defensive line and skirmish style but none to have that aggressive thrust into the enemy and stay there to tank enemy fire and dish out the same if not more punishment style. The idea of Javelins/Perseus holding the line engaging from range while a few of these aggressive style ships break the stalemate to take the brunt of fire for any Polaris/Retaliator/Fighter strike groups to get their torps in.
If I was the UEE I would not allow the Polaris to be given to the public sector, just incase of a rebelscum independents movement starts and thay start using it in guerrilla warfare.
I see the Polaris providing support jumping system to system. The Perseus I see more as maintaining a patrol presence or escort. The difference in crew size and amenities I feel support that. Polaris is on the move so it has medical, Perseus would be supported by either a larger ship, local hospital, or say an Apollo.
Doing anymore comparisons? Awesome video- Thank you.....I am torn between the two lol
por qué no los dos? -Al :)
Oh, we knew this one was coming. XD I always felt like the Polaris was something like an attack submarine merged with a destroyer, while the Perseus was more like a PT boat from WWII or maybe even something like the Monitor (just big-ass cannons strapped on a beefy, tanky ship). They're not really in the same class. I think a Perseus teamed with a Hammerhead and Polaris will be pretty much a deathstar or a pretty intimidating CBG, though - that's what I'm planning on putting around my BMM, anyways. As far as an upscalled Perseus, the thing we haven't seen is a true missile corvette - something the size of the Polaris (or even HH/Perseus) - that just carries a huge mass of S4 missiles. Just vertical launch tubes for days so it could fire 10 or so at once.
Just to be picky, the Retaliator is definitely the submarine of the group and the Polaris is more like a wet navy torpedo cruiser with the Perseus more of the WW2 Battlecruiser (albeit more of a cross between a Gunboat and a Battlecruiser).
@@niklasdahlgren7641 Really, just being spaceships, they're all kind of a mashup. Tali is more of a WWII wolfpack sub, Polaris is more like a mashup of a Seawolf and an Aegis Destroyer and....who knows. Throw a dart at the wall and it'll probably make sense.
@@DawnstealerGaming yea, its a little from column A and column B. The tali to me have submarine elements and takes things from the B1 bomber and SR-71 and other things.
@@niklasdahlgren7641 Right - agreed
I don't think they are really similar at all. The Polaris not only has a hangar, it has more substantial crew quarters, a brig, medical facilities, the torps, etc. And the substantial size difference. I think the components aren't really relevant because I think they are going to change substantially when they actually start making it and accounting for all the features it has, like with the BMM
First of all, excellent discussion inforunners I learned a lot and have some food for thought (as a Polaris owner). Additionally, if I may ask, do you know how the aegis Nautilus fits between the Polaris/Perseus. I would posit my thoughts that mines might be anti-fighterships, while it still has 2x S7 turret and two other turrets that can fire forward (and whatever the hecc is that rear bottom missile turret doing there)
I view Perseus as a fleet defense ship.
It's got enough guns and torpedoes to make people focus on you, so you can force them to come to you.
If you force them to swarm you with fighters, all you have to do is sit in middle of interlocking fields of fire from other ships in the fleet.
If they won't approach and decide to run, you won the engagement and get paid for escort job well done.
If they ignore you and attack, you get to spam torpedoes and Size 7 cannons on the enemy.
Biggest threat is likely a torpedo strike from stealth, but who knows if we can't just slap reactive armor on the thing or something.
Yup, a patrol of 2 Perseus and a Hammerhead can basically take on anything their own size and below with no problem.
Agreed... Perseus and Hammerhead do seem to be in the same class of ship (just two different sides of the gun-ship role). (Also agree that the Ship Matrix is the Matrix of Lies (or the Matrix of Broken Dreams).)
Could take the hangar out and add a command & control or recon/sensor package would be cool. For the bigger Perseus maybe s8 rail gun turret. Or a quad s6/7 laser turret. Just like a Perseus 2.0 / fully modernized. Still the tank but a bit more teeth.
I own both with the Nautilus. Cant wait to fly them :)
With the Polaris getting increased turret sizes ( 6-7 ), this is no longer a reasonable battle.
The Polaris is the one Ship I really want with my heart but in reality its something that will probably too hard to run unless you have alot of crew all the time
I do Like a Percy but I think it does suffer from what most new ships suffer is being deliberately nerfed in some aspect in this case...lack of good turret Coverage and also has a pretty specific role / application ... its not like older ships that can try their hand at a great many things
What I would love to see is a Giant Anvil Hurricane slightly bigger than the percy or there abouts with loads of guns, loads of missile turrets and size 9 torps like the tali ... but more of them
Also Would like to see bigger ships with quad size 3 turrets .... i know it sounds stupid... but the larger the turret the slower it moves (from what CIG have said) having a quad 3 cover your rear vs smaller ships and torps would be a good balance of speed / fire power.... Everyone wants big ships with the biggest turrets possible, this is great vs other large ships but I dont think you will be easily hitting fighters
I depends on what you want from either one. I am looking for a ship to only use for Vanduul/pirate PVE events. Something I can get a few friends together with and join in with other players in fighters and other ships . So the Perseus seems to be the clear winner in regards for what I want.
Polaris and Perseus are both designed and noted to be fast for their size to use hit and run tactics. They are tough enough to patrol on their own but pair nicely in fleet battles. A Hammerhead compliments either well adding fighter/torp screen with enough punch via focus fire to also help with larger ships and is not too slow for its size too. A Hammerhead fitted with S5 torps and a pair of Perseus would be brutal. The Polaris is a mobile command base and support for system garrison using its radar to guide local forces and patrol.
A Polaris, 2 Perseus, and a Hammerhead might be my dream battle group for cap fights. Polaris speeds in with a full volley to soften target. While it comes around for the next pass the Perseus' orbit and bombard with those S7s which have the armor and agility to brawl and keep attention off the Polaris. Hammerhead stays between them as fighter and torp screen or can target capital defense turrets or provide laser suppressive fire so targets shields stay weakened and add DPS. This group could also potentially pierce defensive lines in fast attacks. The Polaris chin turret is a dual S5 so it does not have to waste torps and missiles on med-lg ships when alone. It has a better turret fighter screen than a Perseus but could cover each other well enough in a duo team.
The Polaris was made to replace the Idris's spot after it outgrew its concept size. I see the Idris and Polaris as closer peers than a Jav. They both carry a limited escort fighter compliment compared to a carrier to support patrols alone and for point defense. They both are fast in their classes with a hard-hitting nose weapon that has a low rate of fire to be used tactically since they consume ammo. A Jav is over twice the size, quad crew with mostly energy BFGs for broadside volleys. I think it's more of a battleship or dreadnaught since it's the biggest thing we can buy.
Carriers are self-explanatory. I think Jav and other comparable vendor versions should be battleships. Idris and Polaris define the extremes of Frigates. Perseus and Hammerhead the corvettes. Anything smaller that's not a fighter is a gunboat or PT craft or specialized role ship.
Im a Perseus lover and id have to say that its most used role besides a brawler would probably be a Cargo runner.
Hear me out. A fast, nimble, long range ship that can punch through a blockade to get highly valuable tech, weapons, components, or even just supplies, to a different star system.
Some of the larger Orgs would probably try to lock down a system to call their own or even just a planetary system , the Perseus with heavy armor can take more of a beating than a Polaris, is faster and more maneuverable than a Hammerhead, has VTOL to enter atmosphere if necessary, and has size 7 guns to turn most heavy fighters and medium vessels to dust.
Not a whole lot of ships have that kind of capability. So in my opinion, the Perseus would most likely be used as a High-Value Cargo-runner.
PS: Yes I own both the Polaris and Perseus and figured out their best roles with the resources that they have (armaments, components, utility).
The Polaris will be more Multirole yes. but the Perseus will be much more efficient at what it does than the Polaris.
EDIT: Perseus also has 20 S5 Torps as well. so it is literally a mini Polaris with better guns and armor.
IGN: Kawakaze-404
The only problem is that the Perseus is slow and limbering, the complete anti-thesis of fast and nimble. And it has the cargo space of a Cutlass. You'll be able to run cargo to pay for it's mai tenance, but not make a profit. The Perseus is the poster child of niche ship. It's quite literally a one trick pony. But it does it's trick very very well. And about the armor, the Perseus has a heavy armor. The Polaris has a light CAPITAL armor. We have no data whatsoever about what that means, but it may very well mean that the armir of the Polaris blows the perseus out of the water because it's a whole different class. The Polaris is a whole other class of ship.
Isn't the javelin more a cruiser than anything else? They either fit the role of main carrier escort or as a lead ship for a strike group
44:55 I want to see an automated fighting drone corvette and/or frigate (which could potentially end up something the Nautilus could do, in which case I will be envious as a Polaris owner), laser beam corvette and/or frigate (in which case I would be envious as a Polaris owner with expensive size 10 torps) and major e-warfare corvette and/or frigate (which is just an interesting idea) to name a few.
Don't look now, but with the beams being deleveoped for salvage (and yeah, I agree that beams shouldn't be used for everything, ie: medical gun, multitool, salvage, etc.), don't be surprised if we hear about beam weapons and/or a beam wep ship being concepted or worked on. 😎
I got a feeling Perseus will come out before Polaris for some reason and it will be used as a loaner ship for the Polaris owners
I think CIG will put the Polaris after the BMM (or even before it?) because they don't want to have it as another CCU step.
@@MadIIMike but don’t they have a rework Plan for a Polaris unless they do like they did with the cutlass
@@ekgnomad1496 I don't think the Polaris has anything to be reworked. It got capital components confirmed.
The only "mayor" change from the design would likely be scrapping the missile turrets and changing them to normal ones with missile racks reacting to those turret's missile op mode.
@@MadIIMike Copy that
Meanwhile salty mike be like: You guys all huffing copium, stop having fun discussing
Strikes me that the Perseus design is that of a scaled down capital ship, while the Polaris is that of a scaled up medium transport (aka Constellation).
Need to run this back with the latest information
I think it really depends on how fights, battles and wars will be fought, and what will be fought over. And then what tools we have.
I'd be curious to see the sales numbers exactly but rough maths put the Javelin at 2,500 sales by the end of the year? at 100 systems, that's 25 Javs per system, the numbers get crazy when you think SC will likely launch with much fewer systems. That being said, I have to feel like Javs, and especially the smaller caps that were sold in much higher qty will be commonplace on the SC battlefield, especially when SC org play becomes more of a thing and larger orgs actively recruit cap ship owners. I look at the titan in EVE and think, if EVE had launched with 3k titans in player hands, the early 2000s would have played out much differently, SC for all comparison, just skipped straight to "yoloing" cap fleets around.
I think that Capitals will be spending more time in dry docks then players who own them are expecting, given the personal and fiscal cost of maintaining them.
@20:55 Not almost. It fits this role exactly! Both of these ships do, actually. I have also been stating this ever since the Polaris came out, that it fits the role of a destroyer, not a tiny corvette, nor a frigate. It's fast and hits above its weight class. Hit and runs, just like destroyers are designed to do, aside from hunting submarines. They are great fleet screeners.
The Javelin actually fits the bill of a frigate or even a cruiser since we have nothing larger to compare it to, other than the Bengal carrier, which is properly classed.
I know different countries and realms will have different classes and role types, so it is what it is. That's just my logic on the subject.
Great conversation. I feel like the Polaris will be great for small orgs who can maybe field the Polaris as their “cap” ship and maybe some smaller ships to escort it. I see a lot of pros for both ships. The Perseus on the other hand just seems like amazing fun for a 4-5 man group to contribute in a meaningful way. The one negative I see is the Perseus is way over priced. If your going to spend that kind of money it’s almost a shame to not spend the extra 25 warbond ccu for the Polaris. One thing I hope they end up doing with bigger ships is have shields dedicated to each side of the ship and front and back. So in combat you could roll the ship along the Y axis to present fresh shields.
Only reason not to is that it would make it harder for the displays to be able to read which facing is weak. You would have to make additional window for too and bottom facings, plus it is already hard to tell which facing is weak in the current 3d models depending on how they are presented.
I'm guessing CIG will borrow a lot of design cues from the Carrack for the Anvil capital ship. I hope it has a large enough hangar for a Legionnaire, and I think the hangar in the Polaris is already big enough to fit a Legionnaire, probably just barely.
It took me a bit and i only share this idea because as far as sc ship theory crafters go you three are top notch. I have a pipe dream of a ship around Perseus size that wouldn’t replicate ships we already have. (I’m going finish comment at home pardon the delay )
With its big tanks I’m still hoping the Perseus will be a great high value target long range harassment vessel accompanied with something like vanguards for anti-small fighter support(fly behind the lines and hit support fleet infrastructure fast and get out)
I’ve always seen the Polaris as more of a power projection in a remote area (think area patrol/support) with its ability to both cater to a variety of threats and detect them early with its great sensor suite.
Been great hearing your thoughts on all of this.
With armour changes, The perseus' heavy armour will mean fighters will hardly scratch its thick hull, ares, eclipses or retaliators may cause issues for it and its big guns though, you would want to bring fighters to combat these heavy hitting small craft
Because of the hanger and the limitation to mainly small guns I see the Polaris more as a defensive ship- like I see the hammerhead. It's something you want to keep away from your enemies larger ships so you can use them as a fighter screen for your fighters to run back to. It's there to support your fighters so they can destroy your enemies strike craft and small bombers so you can squeeze your bombers in as their fighter screen wanes. They both have the duty of charging in from time to time, for different reasons, but you aren't going to want them to be part of a slapping contest with anything else big. Same goes for the Purseus. You'll want her to sit further outside the battle to offer a good ratio of damage to percieveable threat, with a good squad of interceptors devoted to her you have a dozen maneuvers in your hand. I mean if you have 100% of the size advantage and an escort tho go ham with that fully crewed HH
Make these 'versus' series a thing. Good watch. Also, while you're in this size class, do Nautilus next - it doesn't get enough love. That heavy forward facing weaponry on a clearly defensive ship is a peculiarity that needs exploring.
It's bait.
- Place minefield
- Sit in the middle like a spider
- Take pot shots at the enemy who cannot ignore those guns
- Lure them into your minefield web
around 20:00 badgers talks about the role of the polaris being like a WW2 destroyer
I however disagree, I think it is MUCH closer to larger Torpedo Boats, or even Fleet Torpedo Boats of the german navy
it doesnt have any larger caliber guns like you would see on most destroyers and only really has autocannons equivalents
it main armament quite obviously is the torps, not the guns like the destroyer.
generally speaking I think CIG slightly messed up the class designations of the 2 ships
Perseus is not a frigate, its a corvette
Polaris is not a corvette, its more of a Torpedo Boat / frigate in size
and well, idris is a frigate
also, damn execute, why you gonna call me out like that XD
Don't you think the perseus will get enlarged once they start making it, just like the polaris?
If you compare gun sizes of Perseus and Ares models, you will notice there's a discrepancy, which means that there will probably be like 5-10% size increase if they want to keep the same dimensions.
Perhaps, but it's 4 years between the two concepts and it's likley that work has been made to narrow down changes from concept to final art (for ships in general) making the Perseus less likley to grow at least as much as the Polaris might do.
I dont think so. It doesnt have a hanger or S10 Torps. Maybe we will be surprised? One can hope.
@@strongback6550 Bigger is not better, becoming a bigger slower target is not what you want in a ship that will be fighter vulnerable already.
And the guns are bespoke on the Perseus so you will not be able to change them out.
Polaris seems to need more staff/players/NPCs... Perseus seems more practical with the numerous size 5 torpedoes
The Perseus is my favorite ship. Great discussion guys, very enjoyable to listen to.
rather than compete between the designs, I tend to look at how they compliment each other. With their design principles, a Polaris with two Perseus and two Hammerhead escorts would be one incredibly nasty patrol or recon/picket fleet to throw at someone. The Hammerheads handle incoming missiles and fighters, the Pereuses (Persei? Perseusi? Freakin' grammar) handle punching out to project firepower while the Polaris hangs back and does the same with torps.
If the Polaris is the spear and the perseus is the tip of the spear I wonder if they will be made to work tandem in that the perseus does a drive by essentially, cracking the shield of a larger ship enough to where the Polaris can send one or two torpedoes to neutralize the target. Or having a pair of perseus do the opening gun run to get something that the Polaris with its torps alone couldn't down in one run..... making them work as a dream team when together but only decent ships for certain situations when not coordinating. Maybe I'm just crazy with that thought process, who knows what will happen when they come out
Correction, the Polaris has 2 main and 4 aux engines not 4 main and 2 retro thrusters, the Polaris is the one ship that can run down the 890, it is "Searingly fast".
The 890J has always been said to be the fastest ship of it's class... given it's hangar size I think it is or should be considered the same class at the Polaris. -Al
Great show! I'm really curious what the final crew requirements will be with the Polaris. The Perseus and Polaris already seem as different as apples and oranges to me. This might be a controversial take but I'd actually like to see the Polaris reduced in size a bit so it's more on par with a Perseus/Carrack.
Its so much the size, but more of a crew requirements for me, its just weird its the only corvette sized ship atm, so there hasnt to be more coming down the pipe! Exe
@@inforunners For sure! Maybe the Longbow will fall in that category.
Legionnaire fits on a XS pad (cf Q&A). So it fits in XS Polaris’ pad.
Your right I was backwards. Sleep deprivation, now Ive slept, you are correct. Exe
Why not both?!
with how torpedoes work currently, torpedoes don't mean that the polaris wins. The perseus is one of the few ships with automated anti-missile batteries. Keep in mind it also has a large size 5 torpedo battery. More than likely it will depend on the strategy of the captain and the gunnery skill of the crew
In some ways I’d prefer to get the Polaris, especially for the size 10 torpedos, hanger, and close release date. However, trying to keep the thing manned all the time just seems like an annoyance. With people logging out and in you can’t just always be picking people up. And you’d have to be in a big org as well to even try to use it feasibly.
With the Perseus - crewing is much more manageable. And the biggest thing for me: it looks freaking badass. But having much less firepower and still needing 6 for max effectiveness is rough. And the biggest issue… who knows when it will actually come out.
I’m never gonna be able to decide 😂
I think fighters isn't a worry for this ship. I'm pretty sure CIG wanted armor to have some minimum requirements for penetrating. With this in mind I can see like a escape from tarkov system where depending on size of the weapons will determine the value of damage penetrating the hull . So I think size 3 will just do nothing, size 4 will probably do minimum amount, but size 5 it where it going to be needed to fight this ship. It makes sense, hammerhead can get away with size 4 because it has 28 of them, the vanguard, corsair and Connie can get size 5 and the ares will be the best.
What I hate in the ship is the lack of cargo, I think this ship so have some cargo on the sides of the elevator lift, so in total like 76 where 26 is off the lift. Second wasted space over the cargo area in the second floor, they could and should give it a tier 3 medical bed since it suppose to do long range patrol mission. And last I think this ship so have some jump seats in the cargo area and this ship should be able to fit one tank or anvil spartan for ground assault.
The Perseus is not designed to be versatile in any way shape or form. 50 scu is barely enough cargo to pay for it's maintenance. It is the very definition of a one trick pony. But it does it's trick very well. The problem isn't that it can do nothing else. It's that it's too overpriced for what it does. At it's price point I struggle to understand how not every Percy owner don't own a Polaris alrwady
@@captainharlock3998 It depends on the range and the effectiveness of the round velocity. If it cut in range, like what happens to the ares then it kinda suck. Most ships that it should target should be able to detect it for it only has a large radar. It doesn't have speed, so unless the ship dosen't have a large radar it sucks. It needs to have some other options, for me it should have ground utility like a ground pounder and drop troops but can't sustain the troops. The extra space makes sense for it has way to much dead space in the cargo area like in the second floor of the cargo area where they can a extra room for a tier 3 medical bed for the crew. Agree it over price, but with a few extra it can be worth it.
The armour polaris equivalent should have light repair, a snub for reasons and an e-warefare suite (being its defensive nature) 👌
first off, love the format. Nautilus and Perseus would be a good comparison as they are both defensive ships. The nautilus is basically half a Perseus with some deployable turrets and or torps. Instead of another pair of S7’s, Similar size, etc
Would be nice if it could have some repair drones/turrets as well for maximum utility when you have enough mines out, or just get fed up of the battle being somewhere other than your minefield.
I can't agree more with badger on ranking! ive been fighting for years saying CIG make no sense looking at ship performance/weapons/armor. Polaris IS a destroyer according to WW2. It is supposed to be fast and nimble, hit and run with huge torp load and poor gun power. It scream space shimakaze XD
Idris would be a cruiser/heavy cruiser (since it is heavily armored), javelin could be a battlecruiser, boasting firepower and torpedoes etc.
Below are patrol boats including perseus and hammerhead. And looking at it it make sense.
That said, CIG allready stated that with polaris upsize, it get all capital component, including shield. So... That point was a miss. But polaris was stated as lightly armored compare to other caps. And it might be less armored than perseus since perseus used to be pre shield era. It is a turtle heavy armored.
Interesting talk, and obviously, i didn't noticed it was 3month old (so didn't had polaris upgrade then, at least nothing confirmed). Now i could enjoy same with newer galaxy in the pool as 3x2 S5 turret is no joke either in fire power.
I just know I'm looking forward to my Polaris as the largest ship in my personal fleet besides the Orion and Reclaimer.
polaris is hands down the better. this is objective truth. the cult of carrack will RUE the day, the polaris steps foot into the PU!!!!
the perseus and the hammerhead would have been better comparisons IMO.
Two things make me wany perseus more. 1) the battle where it took down two enemy ships? It predates shields. It did that with raw hull and tons of armor. This version has all that AND shields. 2) armor and penetration isnt modeled yet. When it is, with all the armor the perseus has, most guns wont even damage the ship. Those fighter swarms with s2, s3, s4 guns? barely tickle it. So the fighters will be a risk but not a mortal risk. Okay, and 3) its smaller and easier to man with a couple friends, vs needing a huge org to run it effectively.
Phew, there's many sides to look at it, making it quite difficult. To top it off a lot of important aspects are either completely unknown or due for rework(s).
For starters, what would be the basis to compare ships against each other?
In terms of bang for buck, both aint great, but I'd see the Polaris ahead.
Then there's crew efficiency, where the Perseus would take the lead by quite a margin. However, that's not accounting for AI-Modules.
The Perseus has bespoke ballistic main guns, which I'm no fan of, since it means CIG can screw with it as they want, rather than giving the player the option to use what they want. It would *in theory* allow them to give it hero-weapons like they did on the Nova Tank, altough it's not exactly great for consistency.
The "Ex-Heavy Armor" is a bit misleading, because CIG does Armor relative to weightclass (or did plan to do so), but lacking any numbers, I'd suppose it might be similar to medium-ish armor of ships one class above.
It's another unknown-terretory thing, but the Perseus is a relatively small ship, meaning it might be able to get trough smaller jump points and use smaller landing pad sizes than the Polaris, possibly making it the strongest ship of this size category.
As far as the Polaris goes, another question would be it's means to reload the Torpedoes.
Eclipse, Retaliator and smaller Torp-Bombers all have relatively simple layouts which would likely support reloading them from the openings used to fire, if not using external mounts. They also can land in / on some large ships, which the Polaris would be too large for. The Polaris' own storage/hangar is also at the opposite end of the Torpedo tubes, so reloading from cargo by itself would not be an option either.
Another thing that should be kept in mind: While Armor+Shields would in theory allow a standoff at least against somewhat smaller ships or more merchant oriented ones, you wouldn't want to fire the Torpedoes from the tubes right outside your cockpit while under fire.
Personally, I think the BMM has pretty much stolen the thunder from combat ships in this price range.
Why would you pick a dedicated combat ship and wait for fitting missions (possibly for some braindead AI that causes you to fail the mission), when you can bring something with firepower comparable to a dedicated combat ship and storage comparable to a dedicated hauler and start the missions yourself?
So here's my little take on this as a mostly Dogfighter focused Citizen, so take it with a pitch of salt. At first glance they seem pretty evenly matched, placing them in a 1v1 scenario you have a Poloris (torpedo centric) with a Fighter (in a capital 1v1 scenario i image you'd want an eclipse or gladiator) vs. a mostly Gunboat focused ship. Heavy speculation but ultimately i think its going to be dependent on speed. When it comes down to it the polaris and hypothetically its capital killing fighter would be heavily reliant on Torpedo/missile's to do the killing, the issue becomes can the 2 Auto mated defense turrets with s3 deal with 4 s6 torpedos + whatever the fighter launches (s5 -s9), if so and the guns don't get overwhelmed then the Perseus becomes nearly immune to the Polaris.
The Polaris's guns are far to small to do much dmg to the Perseus with out receiving a paddling from the 4xs7 guns of the Perseus. Now I bring it back to speed, provided that the Auto PDC on the Perseus can protect it from the missile barrage its next challenge will be closing the distance to apply dmg with the guns. If the Polaris can simply out run the Perseus then the fight ends in a stalemate with neither side being able to effectively hurt the other. Now if the Perseus can keep up with the Polaris then the Polaris is in trouble , you can't simply intercept bullets with other bullets like you can a missile.
Though i think the HH is more of a direct hard counter to the Polaris offensive capabilities it think the Perseus will be a more all around Polaris killer, provide of course that it can keep up speed wise. Provided what we know now unless the Polaris's fighter is a gladiator or Eclipse it will be more of a nuisance then threat to the Perseus because of it's shields and Heavy armor (which might help soak smaller missiles).
In the End this is all Theory Crafting and alot of this is just "IF's" honestly i believe they are on pretty even playing ground despite the size difference , though if you start factoring Crew Req. and then evening number of crew in play you could be looking at multiple Perseus + Fighter escort vs a single Polaris and in that case i believe the Polaris will lose.
As far as a Polaris Competitor Im inclined to say Spinal Mounted S9 Mix between Nautilus and Polaris, with little pinch of Perseus with some Capital turrets, idea being a highly mobile and aggressive flanking capital used to disrupt and target smaller class capital's ("One Shot") or larger Capitals (aiming for Components). Where the Polaris is also a flanking light cap it can focus more on annihilating enemies with downed or weakened shields with overwhelming torpedo Barrages. And the Perseus serving more as "Wingman" escort to larger Capitals ie Javelin as they engage at close range. Plus i Love hard hitting "Punch fare above their weight class" Spinal mounted Ships ie Ares and Idris and i think we need more Spinal mounts.
Thank You, Your Fellow Citizen of the Stars Blitz
The Perseus has 2 S3 turrets for anti-missiles / fighter duty. The Polaris can firs 4 torpedoes at a time. In a 1 v 1 fight, the Polaris wins 10 times out of 10, and the crew didn't sweat.
do you know how easy it is to shoot missile down? Or what the point of PDC turrets are?
Question for you guys... I have a Polaris and a Perseus, with an upgrade to the Natilus on hold. I've been debating melting the Perseus for a Crucible and other items.... thoghts?
Polaris = go-to Org forward operating base
Perseus = sub cap sledgehammer
Every large org will run atleast one Polaris and multiple Perseus/HHs
If they fixed the horrific wasted space in the Perseus cargo bay it would make the ship so much more valuable. Why have a 2-story cargo bay that can only hold 1-story of cargo? They need to make rooms off of the catwalk
I think the perseus at the front looks like a dagger so with its very heavy armour I can see it tearing through something and it's strange metal triangular shapes on the sides suggest to me better handing in atmo with its weight that's why it has bigger hydrogen tanks.
I currently have an Ody, Prowler and Redeemer but im debating what to get.
Ody to Polaris
Prowler - Keep, Orion or Perseus
Redeemer - Perseus or Crucible
Polaris, Orion, Perseus is my thinking. Crucible is gonna be an important ship so only pick that over the Perseus if that type of gameplay interests you. Orion is to fund the cost of running those ships and those torpedos.
Redeemer to Crucible. Prowler to Orion. Odyssey to Polaris.
Corvette = Hammerhead/Perseus
Destroyer = Polaris
Cruiser = Idris
Battle Cruiser = Javelin
Battle Ship = Retribution
Please CIG for the love of god make it make sense.
Ive always been team Polaris. 👍
"Best Capital Daily Driver Series" Coming Soon™
If like to see a 600i exp vs something, I'm just not sure as there isn't much in its price range
With their price points, I really struggle seeing why one would choose a perseus. That being said i definitely prefer it 😅
Can’t beat that aesthetic haha it does look like a futuristic battle ship.
The people who got the Polaris likely got a bargain given the inevitable price increases.
My two favourite “bigger” ships
I hope for the Perseus to gain 2 extra S3 turrets on the sides, like the polaris has those. would give about enough protection against fighters.
for now if you compare the money/ship specws I think the Hammerhead and the Javelin are way more bang for your buck
(i know perseus is aimed to be a lower crew req)
but it just doesnt seem to add up. hammerhead has insane dmg output and is very versitile with a crew of 7, tough the Perseus is really good against vbig targets, but with only 2 S3 turrets it's not at all versitile.
to go to the far end of the comparison, the Javelin has more than 12 times the fire power but is only 5 times the price. not even to incluede hull, shield, med facility etc.
With all these jpegs, Cig making the most expensive card game.
Perseus will most likely be used to take down heavy armed ground encampments and to draw fire away from your ground bomber's.
Perseus should be especially good against AI ground encampments.
I would more than likely use a Hammerhead for that.
- Just fit ballistic cannons on the belly turret, or mix it up with 2 repeaters and 2 cannons and use cannons to blast emplacements into dust and the repeaters against fast fighters.
@@niklasdahlgren7641 Perseus more heavy armored and the weapon's penetration should paralyze large ground weapon's easily or penetrate ammo cache's or fuel.
@@zardarts7688 Never use more firepower than needed. Its entirely possible we do not need heavy guns but merely a hammerhead with the right guns.
fighters kill stealth bombers, persius tanks shots and dishes it out like the movie battleship, polaris is a special ops support ship that replaces the stealth bombers with a tankier and faster support craft.
low armor will probably make the polaris weak to fighters and bigger ships and even the persius while the persius armor will make it be able to face tank most ships and torpedos while it can return fire. in the end the persius should be the best battleship for attrition in long duration fights and have access to more replacement parts. while the stealth bombers and polaris will be better at quick in and out strikes and when damage will be shelfed for longer periods for repairs.
let alone the idea that if balistic guns every are able to detonate stored torpedos that could make the polaris a walking bomb can.
Do you think the Perseus will get bigger?
I don't think so. Only older concept get bigger. The Perseus was concepted when CIG already had their metrics down. So it might change a bit so components get through doors and such, but it won't get an upgrade like the Polaris that grew close to 200m and got full capital components. The Perseus isn't supposed to be a competitor to the Polaris either, it's a class under.
Let’s see it! Polaris is better people like me but Perseus will be more fun for the brawler players
polaris has capital shield now according to SCL