Thank you for all your patience while I finalize my move! I'm still figuring out what I want my backdrop to be, and I know this is coming out an hour later than usual so again, thank you for letting me figure it all out! I hope you all have an amazing day, take care of yourselves!
the fact that people fantasize about these faceless creators to be so attractive can only be contributing to extending the time before a face reveal and the excitement at the idea of one. the creators are also put in the spot of disappointing their audience if they are not as attractive as they were believed to be. not to mention the toll this takes on their self worth by comparing themselves to all these fanarts and cosplays and etc.
@@BrianaLynn7 There's more reasons than just being unattractive to not show your face, for example being shy (yes, you can be shy even if you're attractive) or liking the anonymity. Don't assume what's their reason.
@@BrianaLynn7 100% serious, I'm good looking and was well liked for my looks all through growing up. I have no reason to think otherwise but because of a mother with npd who instilled me with lots of fear of being unlovable if my hair was uncombed/ in PJs on a Saturday, I could never connect to that fact so I felt like it was some outer shell separate from me. I would also act to be liked & couldn't really turn that off unless I was totally alone. I've wanted to stream for YEARS but always felt sick to think of being on camera, of needing to act but not having an audience who's face/voice I could read to act accordingly. The new v tuber trend was the first time I ever though "holy shit maybe I could do that??" It gives a whole new shell that you can sit behind and not worry how YOU look at that moment. On camera even with friends I'm constantly aware "oh is this a bad angle, should I hold it higher?? ugh don't emote too much it'll stretch your face in an ugly way, don't smile like that it'll make your cheeks look fat, keep your eyes open or they'll look squinty & small!" plus if I make an ugly face in person its just a flash then gone...if I do it on camera it could be there forever captured & mocked publicly, proving I'm clearly *bad*. I disagree with every bit of that but its all an internal dialogue. That shit is hard as hell to overcome let alone on camera for the internet where people are quick to cruelty. Then needing to naturally talk/be enjoyable to listen to and it can feel nightmarish to do all at once. being ugly has nothing to do with any of that, its not having a concrete sense of self worth as a kid basically. I'm sure I can't count the many other ways people might not want to. long reply lol but looks aint all that helpful without some confidence/mental health to support them.
Have you seen the pic people are passing around of “Dream”? It makes me so sad. If it is him he’s getting fat shamed by millions. It it’s not him some random kid is getting fat shamed by millions. :(
@@MsMusicfreak666 even worse, the kid in the pic looks about 16 or so. Something about dragging someone’s past photos out and mocking them makes me very upset. I had to unfollow a drama TH-camr when he posted pictures of Jeffree star from high school. I dislike Jeffree as much as the next TH-camr user, but that’s lower than low.
I am nowhere near a dream stan, quite the opposite, but I just hate this. Everyone who participated in tearing that poor kid to shreds should be ashamed of themselves, even if it ends up being Dream himself.
I will absolutely never understand when people criticize controversial creators’ looks. If they are in some kind of scandal then comment about their scandal and their actions and why they’re bad. Don’t comment on something they can’t control like their looks. It literally does nothing except make that person and people who might look like them feel awful about themselves. It can also lead the creator to write off any criticism as “hate” instead of listening to the actually co structure criticism that they’re also getting. A good example of that is Jaclyn Hill. She’s done a lot of stuff worth criticizing, but she gets so much hate for her looks that she just writes everything off as hate and doesn’t listen to any feedback at all.
As much as I dislike dream, that whole situation actually really did make me upset. No one deserves to be made fun of for their appearance, especially if it’s something they cannot control.
@@KuncanDastner please do! I think you would thrive in longer videos! Sometimes i am really confused that the video is already over, because I feel like you have still so much to say and I want to hear more!
There are also those faceless Asian (Korean) TH-camrs that hardly talk but just vlog their life (cooking, studying, cleaning, preparing for work, school or stay-at-home stuff). Their very popular and rely a lot on aesthetics in comparison to western faceless TH-camrs.
Yes!! I follow quite a few, and I find it interesting how I don't find a lot of comments speculating about their face. Maybe it has something to with the fact their sharing so much of their lives with us already, so there's no need to go digging for even more info about them?
@@starzies interesting. Maybe it could also be because if they aren’t talking much, viewers are more there for the content than for the creator’s personality, so viewers don’t speculate as much about their personal details.
@@starzies I think it’s because those types of videos are viewed upon a certain type of people cooking cleaning studying is what others come for I wouldn’t aspect those that are demanding to be watching
i assume it’s because in those kinds of videos, people mostly come for the content instead of the content creator itself-if that makes sense. a lot of these popular faceless youtubers have fans (or, stans, if you want to go that direction) that watch them for them which can be nice but can also be very dangerous for both the audience and the cc.
if u ever wanna become a faceless youtuber, you should have an undercover name. off the top of my head, maybe duncan kastner? a little nod to your real name, kuncan.
i guess another issue with faceless creators is that they've essentially turned themselves into brand, a mascot, as if they *are* the logo. this affects the actions of both sides, since stans begin to form a kind of brand dependency whereas the antis begin to criticize him as if he isn't a person anymore, treating him like any faceless corporation that only makes decisions to increase profits.
Why be a faceless TH-camr when you can be a voiceless TH-camr? I'd just post videos of myself talking and discussing important topics, but with no sound.
Regarding little yoda - i think both Dream and Corpse have company of rather cute friends like George and Sykkuno - people that audience would love to spend time with and they can if they project themselves into Dream and Corpse.
This same idea applies to Hello Kitty! She doesn't have a mouth so her expression/feeling can be whatever the viewer wants/is experiencing. It's an intentional part of her design
About your ending question (how corpse doesn’t get recognized) he’s actually addressed this on his Instagram. He has had people recognize his voice in drive thrus etc and it fuels his social anxiety and agoraphobia. From what I understand he very rarely leaves his home or apartment and he avoids people as much as possible. I’m just a casual fan so stans may need to correct me.
wow if that’s true i wonder how it effects his mental health? that has to be a massive pressure of never being seen, if his appearance gets outed i also wonder how he will progress from there in terms of potential backlash for not “living up to expectations”
See nothing wrong here. He's also mentioned he hasn't gone to physical therapy cause he's worried about being recognized. Even having food delivered is something he worries about.
@@kamrav4002 he does have extreme agoraphobia and when people recognize his voice, he just shuts down. i honestly feel bad for him in a lot of ways because he has a lot of mental health issues and being in such a harsh spotlight only exacerbates all of that. i'd highly recommend watching anthony padilla's interview with him for a more in-depth understanding of him as a person and as a creator/character.
This is true. I watched him before he blew up, and I know since he has he’s terrified to be recognized and also very scared to ever have anyone find out who he is because he says he won’t meet the standards of these millions of fans
I wouldn't be able to remain faceless. I totally get why corpse is, he explained his situation and state of mind pretty clearly. Don't follow dream so can't say anything about him. But living with the stress of someone finding out my identity would take the best of me. Specially with something as identifiable as corpse's voice. He barely ever leaves the house, barely have friends. And yeah, him being faceless makes many horny girls follow him for the image of that Greek god in their heads, but he's a nice, genuine guy that messes with nobody and shares his music and videos for free with everyone. His story is inspirational tbh and even though I'm not into the genre he creates, I listen to his music because of him. Because I want to support him, and because I like new things. Idk there's something about him as a person that make him so likable. There's just much more to him than being a faceless TH-camr. He's been one for years but only when he began playing among us and people got to know him better, is when he blew up
He’s very charismatic and has such a likable personality that I couldn’t believe that he even had haters at first and it came as a huge shock to me, he’s so genuine, kind, naturally funny and unproblematic and deserves all the success he’s had until now and even more
@@ninirozhy simply being widely liked can attract haters. It's kinda like a popular person in high school who also happens to be nice, funny, smart, etc. Watching them from a distance, some people get suspicious: they couldn't possibly be all that. What's the catch?
@@k3upikachu exactly that’s why all popular things have so many haters for absolutely no reason people going as far as even stalking their likes and desperately looking for any tweet from four years ago to justify hating someone :/
I think part of the reason that stans tend to be so aggressive, at least in Corpse’s case, is that he suffers from mental health issues which is why he chose to be faceless. Fans probably feel protective over him and want to attack anyone that might make him feel bad. He is very open about his mental health struggles and his fan base connects with that, but they also forget that he is an adult and that yelling at strangers on the internet isn’t actually helping much.
That and he just comes off as weird with it and makes it his whole personality. It seems like a big pity party. Personally in the beginning I liked his music and thought he was slightly genuine but my opinion has changed quickly.
@@black_girl_magic you are beautiful, don’t listen to what a bunch of jealous idiots say about you! The only opinion that should matter about yourself is yours!
As someone who is in the my hero fandom, the dream fandom scares the crap out of me. I thought I had seen it all from the MHA fandom, but noooo the dream fandom had to traumatize me more
@@mewow3556 I too love your pfp And just gotta add, not an mha fan but I do love several shows with really… strange fanbases. Love the shows, STAY OUT OF THE FANDOM
I think the way stans aggressively defend dream is definitely in part due to their age. Most of his fanbase is younger than he is, and I know I would defend the people I stanned when I was in middle/high school pretty much the same way
I would never be an anonymous/faceless TH-camr, I mean I will never even be a TH-cam but, it creates more pressure then just showing your face, people will draw you so attractively and expect good looks based on voices/videos/hand pics whatever it is. And I feel like you would have a huge expectation from everyone that you would have to reach, and be scared of not reaching everyones extreme expectation.
I think there’s definitely benefits and disadvantages for both faceless and public TH-camrs. It just depends on what the person is comfortable with and willing to risk
@@KuncanDastner yes that also, I wouldn't be surprised if some people like corpse and dream smp will never show their faces unless it was a leak, and that's another thing, leaks what if something leaks it could potentially break the internet lol
honestly that’s why i never would be a faceless creator either. i’d rather not have to deal with the pressure of having to hide your face or the possibility of it getting leaked or the pressure of a face reveal. like i understand people’s reasoning for why they’re faceless but i just know i’d be paranoid all the time. especially bc no matter what you will never reach anyone’s expectations
@@cinnamonfairyfluff I agree, especially now, all the scrutiny and controversies just seem so exhausting. It's so clear that any 'controversy' can be resolved with a calm and civil conversation but because of the hellsite that is Twitter, everyone is constantly in a state of outrage and then everything is a shitshow of screaming on both sides so even intelligent and necessary discourse is buried under hoards of people just screaming at each other willing to die on a hill they probably don't even understand and aahh I'm very frustrated with Twitter in general and I'm not even on it!
@@rakshyakharel9398 exactly. i think what armani was saying was genuinely valid and a good conversation could’ve been had. i love watching the occasional mcyt but i feel so ostracized as a black person watching because they make jokes that are rooted in anti-blackness or use aave as the butt of a joke. obviously it’s not intentional but had dream not shut her down he could’ve walked away with new knowledge to make his poc fans more comfortable.
@@rakshyakharel9398 EXACTLY. I've seen just as many hate accounts for Dream and Corpse as I have stan accounts. I don't understand people who fixate on those they claim to hate. I can kinda get why so many ppl dislike Dream, because he's argumentative and isn't the best with phrasing sentences, so a lot of his tweets get easily misinterpreted (like the tweet where he tries to make an analogy about loving his fans in the same way he loves kittens, but it ended up sounding creepy) He's very quick to respond to criticism and hate, rather than collecting his thoughts and thinking it through. He also is very stubborn, and sticks to his words, and rarely listens to the opposing point. But at the same time, I get his point of view. He has a huge population on the internet who hate his guts and want to doxx him. It'd be pretty damn hard to stay cool-headed in an environment like that. It's also gross that ppl are trying to leak his face rn. It's so creepy and stalker-ish that they're going THAT far, just to prove a point. As for Corpse, ppl just literally hate him because he has a unique voice. Literally, that's the only reason. They go to great lengths to prove his voice is fake and whatnot, and it's just so mind boggling, the hoops these ppl jump through to "expose" him for literally just playing Among Us and hanging out with his friends. It's the same story with Wolfychu and Lilypichu. If your voice isn't completely average on the internet, you'll get hate. Don't get me wrong, the bad stans are BAAAAD, but ppl act like that's the whole community, when, in reality, it's maybe like 5 ppl in a crowd of millions. I'm not a stan, but I am a fan of the Dream SMP, I love the entire group of content creators, and I've genuinely never seen a sweeter fanbase. Everybody is so warm and kind to one another, and it's just such a supportive atmosphere. Corpse's fans are a lil more thirsty and sexual, but as long as Corpse is chill with it, then I genuinely don't see a problem. And yes, I get that it's annoying to see Corpse and Dream SMP stuff trending on Twitter all the time, but I don't get why ppl can't just ignore it? There's literally a button where you can press "I'm not interested in this trend" and it'll hide it. It's that simple. Sorry for the rant!!! I have a lot of thoughts on this particular topic that've been festering in my brain for faaar too long lmao.
also, i'd like to clarify to you that the corpse thing was all satire. corpse posted the strands of hair as jokes (because he literally tweeted with #onlystrands LOL 😭 ), and most of his fandom ran with the joke - only the bad apples who just oversexualized him and were creepy about it. the rest of the internet interpreted this as all his fans thirsting over his literal hair because it was trending so quickly (which again, you can, some did), and it suddenly was an outlet for people to send MORE hate. you can find more about this in anthony padilla's video I spent a day with CORPSE! :)
Same things happens with dream and stuff that gets trending thats innocuous can make the rest of the internet think someone’s being obsessively creepy. I just think random Twitter guys with no experience of anything fandom before or who already don’t like the idea of any fans or stans assume everyone is being serious always. It’s like one of the tweets shown use the phrase dream my beloved which as a corpse fan you probably have heard a some point. Like my beloved is ironic or atleast jokey because of those heart locked gifs and a ranboo one that said ranboo my beloved.
@@lieeeleeee yes! in the fandom, especially in ones as big as dreams and corpses, there are a lot of inside jokes, and outsiders who don't know about it may misunderstand and perceive it to be "creepy" and "obsessive." the ranboo heart chain this is innocent enough, but watch some ppl on twitter morph it into something about parasocial relationships and manipulation
As a Minecraft watcher who enjoys Dream, I think a big reason why a lot of his controversies get blown up also has to do with the way he responds to things. He’s got a big ego and a short fuse and that tends to cause him to respond to things it’s better he doesn’t, or to mishandle situations. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that he blew up incredibly quickly, and on top of that, being faceless obviously causes things to be a lot worse. Existing on twitter as a fan of him and similar creators is a lot, and I’ve noticed how hectic being a fan of him is compared to other Minecraft streamers/youtubers. It’s caused me to distance my enjoyment of him due to the stress being a fan of his can sometimes put on me. Thank you for this video! I love your stuff. :)
i agree!! he’s honestly a really good cc but his responses to drama and the general twt fan base can be very overwhelming and more stressful than fun tbh
yeah as a dream 'stan' i agree with this a lot the reactionary nature in which he responds to stuff initially just serves to fan the flames i don't really blame him for acting so passionately, especially since he does come to regret it often, and there's a lot of factors that affect the way he in particular responds to drama (the intense and often unfair standards of his accusers, the whole faceless youtuber thing, his adhd, plus the stuff you mentioned, etc.) like sometimes he has a point, sometimes he doesn't but just the way he handles things can turn out to be really irresponsible and do more harm than good i love the guy, i love his content, i think he's a good person with good intentions but he really needs to chill and learn how to better respond to drama
I feel like he's quite similar to James Charles in the way he handles problems online. Dream is very impulsive and bad with words. On the other hand, when he does adress problems he dances around the topic too much and doesn't really talk about the main issue. Dream turning a legit concern from a minor about parasocial relationships into a copypasta to deflect criticism on his relationship with his fanbase is one of those examples. I don't think he's malicious but he needs to change the way he approaches things.
The thing that's annoying about TH-camrs like Dream and Corpse is that you never find somebody who's like "Yeah, they're fine. I don't really have an opinion on them." It's either "I would die for him!" or "I want to kill him!" and their is no in between. The haters are just as obsessed and psycho as their fans are.
fucking agreed it's insane the amount of passio people put towards people they only know about on the internet it's like people forget they're people and not like fictional characters who are either purely evil or innocent the thing that sucks the most imo is that genuine criticisms get overshadowed by people doxxing and sending death threats. instead of productive conversation we get performative bullshit
There are plenty of people like that, but they just don't feel the need to talk lol. Everything always seems more polarized than it is because people only yell when they have an opinion. Indifference is quiet
I Just Accepted That Anti (Insert Topic Here) People Are Just As Toxic As Pro (Insert Topic Here) People, If Not Worst. It's Just Weird How People Who Against Something Because It's Toxic But Also Being Toxic Barely Gets Called Out. Well I Know A Few Reasons Why But That's A Rant For Another Day
I feel like sometimes the lack of a face to put to someone can dehumanize them to people, causing both fans and people who don't like a create to act out in ways they might not always. Other people in the comments have mentioned how corpse's fans sexualize him to an extent that can be hard to live up to, this seems it might come from an idealized vision of who he might be based on his content and voice but it also might come from a fact they see him less as a person and more as a character, idk
I think another thing to consider is the huge community of friends both Corpse and Dream use in their videos/streams so fans are able to have hours of similar content. Dream has the Dream SMP, filled with people who interact with him and have their own personalities so it reels more fans in and encourages them to stay. If Dream isn’t my favorite but I enjoy watching his close friend George, I’ll probably watch Dream videos and stay updated on him through default. The same goes with Corpse and his Among Us lobbies. People like Sykkuno, Rae, Toast, Tina, and all the other streamers that he plays with allows him to quietly listen and keep the same audience retention. Corpse doesn’t stream very often, but if he appears in his friends’ videos, so fans have to almost seek that content out.
I don't know anything about these people but I have heard that the husband guy is disabled with something that gives him chronic pain so there may not be people in his life that need to figure out who he is. When you are homebound you have only a few people in your life and they have to be the closest people to you. If he does have friends they are going to be so close that they wouldn't out him and any caretakers aren't likely to know what his online persona actually entails or how popular he really is. I think there is a huge gender aspect to this thing that you missed. It's definitely not a coincidence that the most popular "faceless" personalities are all men.
Corpse has a lot of chronic illness such as fibromyalgia, thoracic outlet syndrome, and GERD. He also has to wear an eye patch due to the blue light from his computer. He doesn’t like to leave his home because he’s agoraphobic and he’s also scared someone might recognize his voice. He doesn’t have any care takers. And he does have friends. He’s only shown some of his friends what he looks like.
With all the Dream drama in the air, it's very cool to see your take on this topic :) I feel like it's really easy to love someone when you can imagine them however you like, and I don't just me attractiveness. No matter how judgmental you are, it's human nature to make assumptions when you see someone. How they keep themselves, how they look, facial expressions, etc etc. However, you can fill in the blanks when you aren't given a face which is appealing to many. The same applies to hating them. Plus, without a face, it's much easier to hate someone because they feel less like a person and more like a personality. As someone into mcyt a bit who doesn't use twitter or engage with stans very much outside of watching from a safe distance, I think I speak for everyone when I say it's very very hectic.
Ngl I wish more people would try to make a job out of the internet while anonymous. The people that would be popular would be actually talented people or genuinely nice personalities instead of nice faces that fool naive people.
Corpse has a lot of in jokes with his fans. Things like onlystrands, he told fans he'd share a photo of his hair strands for getting a mill on insta, fans thought he'd post a photo of his hair, so when he posted that image fans just went with it. So much of the interaction with Corpse and his fans is too have fun, he spends lot of time offline so when he's online Corpse tries to give back to fans(he mentions this during his streams) by interacting with them. Lots of fans want to actively protect corpse from hate he gets cause a lot of the hate targeted to him is because people dont think hes deserving of fans since they hate that he's suddenly big for in their opinions no reason and for things they don't like. Him posting a blank tweet got him death threats because his fans interacted. Fans react so big to things he does are for usually 2 reasons, to show Corpse they care about him/the things he's makes and because it makes non-corpse fans angry. It doesn't help that a lot of his fans on twitter that are vocal are seemingly girls and anything girls like get a lot of unnecessarily hate. While there are def those fans who are just horny for him and sexualize him since he is a male with a deep voice, a lot of the fans like how he can be an honest and genuine person, his personality is easy to like and he's funny to boot. He's very open about his health struggles (physical and mental) so people can relate to those things.
I can't even imagine. Because they're faceless, people attach a whole pretend face or body to the person, and it's always an incredibly attractive person that people imagine, how are they supposed to live up to all the expectations? Also, it must be terrifying as well to have so many people dig through your information, trying to find you, I mean, look what happened to dream yesterday, it must be so stressful, especially for people like Corpse Husband, with incredibly recognizable voices..
Slightly tangential, but as a tiny faceless creator, eventhough nobody is checking for me, its still weirdly nerve-wracking putting out content. I keep having to remind myself that I'm anonymous. I would recommend it as a first step into the content creating world, if you don't want your face out there though. You can always decide to show your face later if you want. Great video, and I love that you used Mando and the kid in this. :):)
Also faceless content creator here! And yes, also a tiny creator! Also yeah I’d recommend being faceless first, then at least you can hold a degree of anonymity :)
@@thechroniclesofthesuperhob167 That's true, and TH-cam would be a pretty grim experience if nobody showed their faces, so I definitely appreciate that a lot of people do.
Im not in mcyt, but everytime they are on my tl its something bad. Either racist shit, manipulation, parasocial problem, etc. Its so weird. And their stans my god. I only follow Corpse and Sykkuno and wont dive in the fandom for sure LMAO Also yeah about how the fans draw them attractively, this reminds me of a tweet. How Dream's ego must be big bc how amazing and gorgeous his fanarts look. Idk abt Dream, but Corpse has spoken about expectations and he frequently felt stressed about it its so sad :(
I agree but I’d say the opposite of the “dreams fanart makes his ego bigger” I think if everyone drew me really attractive without knowing what I look like I’d be really sad and stressed since their expectations are so high😭
I'm inside the fandom, and let me tell you, whenever Dream did something wrong, my tl is immediately filled with stans criticizing him. In my tl, it was mostly antis that just hate on him without giving an actual criticism. People just see what they want to see without acknowledging that there are both sides to each stories smh. And yeah Dream is not worried about his face reveal, like at all, because he never meant to be a faceless youtuber in the first place. And following the man, I'd say that's because he's more confident in his ability and that his fans follow him because of that rather than his personality or look.
I can tell you it's not all MCYT it's specific parts. like everyone on HC is wonderful as far as I can tell I mean they could all be assholes and we would know. but I'd like the community around HC is just wonderful if you look up HC animations it's not all of us. and a lot of DSMP is good to especially the story the story is amazing. especially on the dream SMP Ranboo our beloved.
i don't know too much about corpse, but from what i've seen of the dreams fandom, there's a weird stigma around criticizing the creators whose content you consume. dream dropped pride merch the other day and i saw someone tweet about how it didn't sit right with them because he's a straight cis man and he's keeping the profits from it (at least i think he's cishet, some say he's said he's unlabeled, others say he's said he's straight. he's certainly not openly queer i'll say that much) but the poor kid who tweeted that- i think her bio said she was 15- got harassed by hundreds of people for that lukewarm take. and she was a stan too!! but she tried to criticize one thing dream did and instead of engaging in a discussion about it, like 600 people bullied her. it was so disgusting, lowkey ruined my day because everyone involved was probably super young- and that shit is so bad for your mental health :// also.... the tweet was pretty reasonable?? like he and his friends have donated 50k to the trevor project which is incredible, but they're all millionaires so it's not like they need the profit from this. it's just a weird thing to do, especially given some of the queerbaiting shit he got called out for. like wow some of those compilations of him and george give me flashbacks to the BBC's sherlock. and when they play it up it invites more queer kids into their audience, queer kids that they're now profiting off of.
yeah I remember that, misinformation of his pride merch only being at a 10% profit to an lgbtq+ charity sparked a lot of outrage from both critiquers and defenders of him. It was actually 10% of the revenue that was donated, a fair bit more. However, the fact he's likely still profiting off pride merch as a cis likely heterosexual creator still feels very icky. People don't understand that you don't need to hate or love a creator, there can be a healthy middleground whereas you enjoy the content, like the creator, perhaps even find them to be your favourite, but don't condone every single one of their decisions and opinions. People can not like something a person does and still like the person, it doesn't have to be either of the extremes.
You know it’s not even the fact that he’s straight that bothers me about that. Its the fact that he gets into so many controversies for saying shitty things which Duncan said included slurs. So it feels super disingenuous clearly social improvement is not on his agenda. I don’t even understand how these creators are tweeting slurs it’s so ridiculously easy not too what’re they thinking
I think a lot of people like feeling like they are a detective, in a group working to figure something out. It reminds me of how obsessive fans were about Dan and Phil since their sexualities and relationship to each other wasn’t public info
As someone who enjoys Dreams content I am terrified of some of the fans. People have attacked me from inside the fan base for not understanding something or for seeing both sides in a controversy. I've just learned to stay away from twitter stans.
agreed. before i came on twitter i thought the fanbase was pretty tame but then i made an account. there's some really baffling disturbing behavior on there i just keep the account for stream notifications nowadays
Same here my dude. Mycttwt is facking terrifying. I dont even use twitter but god damn I kept seeing contreversies/drama left and right where ever social media i go :^)
As someone pretty deep in the mcyt fandom, ive noticed how viewers, and even other content creators, dont discuss Dream as if he were another human content creator? The way opinions about him are stated, either postive or negative, are always so extreme and dehumanizing, its fascinating to look at (in the worst way rip) As if talking about a fictional character that wont be impacted about it directly..
The lesser is known about a creator, the easier it is to impart your own belief and quirks onto them, only strengthening the parasocial bond. Of course those fans would feel a more personal connection and therefore react more defensively.
Your energy is the most like original thing I’ve ever seen. It’s like your so funny and energetic but also calm. I’m so glad the algorithm gods have blessed me. 💅✨🌈
I think alot of the problems with dream stans is related to their age. Many of them are young so they don't understand boundaries. I watch alot of MCYT and still don't understand the fans. I also think that people's dislike of dream outside of criticism of his actions are about hating what teenage girls like.
hot take from a sapphic : probably also has something to do with comphet I too as a teenager would find the idea of a faceless man who's "safe" or that I can make in my head to be "safe" appealing, same reason why a lot of us are fans of fictional men. It's a coping mechanism against the pressure of heteronormativity from what I understand
This makes so much sense looking back as a sapphic myself... I would say in the past that I preferred fictional men over real men and now I realize the reason was that I found them safer and more likable than the ones I had met.
Being faceless gives fans more room to idealize and romanticize the creator. Gaps get filled by fantasy, and people get hooked on it. I also think this cartoon character/mystery thing might work better for a younger audience, which I think both Corpse and Dream have.
Anonymity _is_ a fascinating choice for artists/creators. I think of Banksy, and how he's managed to keep his identity secret all these years. He's concerned about repercussions for the illegality of his work, so there's good reason for the secrecy. But even some stage performers prefer to obscure their faces, like Sia wears oversized wigs for privacy, and Orville Peck wears fringed masks to help with his creative expression. It's all very intriguing. I imagine all of these people struggle with fame a bit. I relate to their wanting to hide away.
came here to say this! when dream was first becoming popular and I saw the masked avatar thing i was confused because it looks so similar and i didnt see anyone mentioning it lol. and then the whole shit with cry was revealed and i never considered watching dream's content after that cause i hate thinking about anything related to cry 🤪 like obviously any online personality has a position of power to take advantage of young fans (as has been proven with many of them unfortunately) but yeah masked avatars more than anything else have a negative association in my mind. not saying anything about dream personally, just hate constantly seeing the similarities. like, @dreamwastaken? jesus.
You absolutely deserve all the channel growth you've gotten. I do have a theory about the corpse voice thing. There's a line in Invincible that Atomic Eve says that goes something along the lines of 'if you're not looking for atomic eve in high school, then you won't find her. You'll find someone that looks like her but you won't believe it is her.' and while fictional I think there may be some truth to that. Like if you aren't expecting to hear corpse, then you won't? I dunno, just a thought.
I'm sorry you had to go through that, death threat is never right. But I promise not all of them are like that. Toxic people will always be toxic no matter where they are. Like, I've also seen a dream stan getting death threats just because they draw Dream. I'ts crazy how easy it is for someone to just send out death threats..
@@emailputri4 yup, and its really hard to not generalise dreams audience when most people only ever see those toxic people even tho there are some rlly nice people but ig they kinda get outweighed🤷
I feel like it's more difficult for a female faceless content creator to gain traction. Often women's fans are made up of a good percentage of people who follow them for their looks.
I think it's also important to highlight that the main prominent "faceless" female content creators are vtubers. Their IRL appearances and identities are kept secret like Dream and Corpse's, but their drawn appearances are still a key part of their marketability. If they were just anonymous female voices talking over gameplay there's no way most of their viewers would even bother giving them a chance (and I'm saying this as someone who adores Calliope Mori and watches her for her non-fiction personality and talent rather than her fictional anime appearance or character. I acknowledge that I never would have discovered her if not for the people who initially were attracted to her character design and aesthetics).
they're just regular-ass human begins who happen to have a platform. one thing that I DO dislike is their fanbase,,,, I'd hate to have the fear of finally doing a face reveal and then not live up to the forced upon expectations of a bunch of 14-year-olds (also congrats on 2mil views kuncan!!)
As soon as you started talking about faceless youtubers, I thought about Cryaotic. And you’re right, this seems to apply to most faceless youtubers. Especially gamers.
It must be rough being a faceless creator(specifically those who use art to represent themselves) because if you don't match the image of the fantasies your audience has projected into you, your fanbase may turn against you.
another banger by kuncan! i’m so so excited that’s you’re getting blessed by the youtube gods, and hope that your community stays kind & relatively pressure-free
Possible video squeal: Anonymous and Faceless TH-camrs and how if they're called out or cancelled for something they don't _really_ get consequences to their actions. See *_Cryatoic,_* the *_original Dream._* Fame, money, and power can go to your head. We've seen that. But being an anonymous and faceless adds to the potential harm they can do. You can be mad a someone who's not faceless and if they get pushed off of platforms they're kind of done but the anonymous could just re-brand and keep going.
so glad someone mentioned cryaotic. i was so unnerved this year when dream became popular just because their personas looked so similar. wouldn’t want a repeat of what happened with cry
@@mouse6809 I definitely feel this ;-; was so shocked to learn about all the cry things, with a lot of TH-camrs I used to follow coming around and being…. Groomers and pedos essentially ;-; looking at minilad too
Great video! The only thing i’d like to point is that often “dream stan” is used as un umbrella term for every account that is interested in mcyt. On twitter for example (arguably the app that allows the most toxicity) there aren’t as many dream stans as you might think, it’s just that dream has become a sort of representative of the whole community and gets all the shit for that. Don’t get me wrong, there is valid criticism but most of those controversies could be easily avoided…
Haven't seen the full video but my opinion on this is that I would be fucking terrified. If people were making conventionally attractive fanart of me I would get anxious that if I showed my face, people would get upset that I don't meet their expectations.
This is the one commentary channel I've seen where the creator really tries to have an unbiased opinion. He also doesn't use clickbait titles, force people to do certain things with his content, or convince others that his opinion is the best opinion. Thank you Kuncan for being a great inspiration :)
I honestly personally think that for Dream, the toxic fans are there cus dream gets into controversy so much so everytime someone makes fun of him or criticize him, the fans just jump on and assume the person is a hater and they try and shut down that person. And as for corpse... A lot(or atlest the most seen ones) of his fans are really obsessive and it's honestly quite toxic to corpse aswell since a lot of people are subscribed to corpse not really for his gameplay but only for his voice, that's why a lot of them are so obsessive over his looks(I'm not saying that all his fans are like this, a lot of them are lovely people but this is mostly just an observation that I made of both dream and corpse since I was apart of their fandom for a while and still watch them from time to time) Oh and also most of these stans are probably children (just saying) ;-;
A few people have recognized corpse due to his voice, but he relatively stays at home 24/7. You can say he's a bit of a hikikomori in that aspect. Though he's only like that because of his extreme health condition. The reason his voice is deep in the first place is because of Gerd. The man doesn't seem like he'll live till 50, which is sad.
in all honesty the voice thing with corpse husband is a really interesting point to bring up, it IS strange how nobody has given him away with such a distinct trait. I wonder if it’s almost scary to be afraid of someone with ill intent giving his identity away.
I definitely do this with other creators as well. Because they're showing a very singular side of themselves, there's a huge part of them that the viewer never sees. So, the viewer can project themselves onto the creator to "fill in the gaps." I always catch myself doing thing, and I remind myself that I really don't know hardly anything about creators. And then I get sad. lol
i'm a very big fan of both corpse and dream, honestly i would call myself a stan. i'm big into minecraft youtube in general, funnily enough my favourite streamer is another faceless minecrafter. i really admire that you were able to recognize that dream stans specifically get so defensive because dream gets a lot of unnecessary hate from antis. while i don't think this excuses the incredibly toxic behaviour and death threats it's nice to finally see a creator talking about dream and acknowledging that this is in part a defensive mechanism to all the shit dream and his fans get from randos on twitter and other large content creators.
agreed, while he has some stuff he needs to work on people always go extreme nobody ever talks about the ridiculous amount of hate dream gets back, this video is so refreshing in that sense
@@mli2883 YOOOO same bruh, like i am scared to think how many death threats that guy gets on a DAILY basis. i'm not sure how he does it actually, i don't know how he's able to handle the barrage of hate he gets anytime his name is brought up. i could never honestly.
Hi hello, local simp here. Don't ever hesitate to turn your fan/ac on while filming. Just saying this because many TH-camrs take the L rather than taking care of themselves.
I haven’t watched/ listened to Corpse Husband in about a year but he actually discussed this kind of content. He seemed really overwhelmed with how much fame he got so fast (and probably still is). It would be so overwhelming to have such intense fans seemingly out of no where
I forgot to comment this on the actual video about stans so I’ll comment on this one for the algorithm but I’m really happy that for once someone (aka you!) is not bashing Stan culture
It's so weird how caught up people can over what someone looks like. Why is that so important? People are angry that the invisible man from hotel transylvania isnt hot like they imagined him to be. It just makes me want to disconnect my wifi.
I kinda don’t understand fans in general. I like certain people who make things, whether that be music/videos/art, but I don’t consider myself a fan of anyone. It just feels weird and like a waste of time.
A huge thing with corpse fans is they are always falling into this “aw he’s really going through a lot let’s not pressure him or do x or y” I don’t think that is his fault but it feels like he’s unintentionally curated this fan base of women who want to take care of him, give him therapy and chicken noodle soup, be his support system (it doesn’t help he talks about not having friends and all his mental and health struggles in a “woe is me” way quite a lot, but that is likely for the fans). Basically he’s that person who is always going through something, obviously I hope he is doing better but I don’t know if he’d even admit if he was because his fans expect him to be struggling-that is always the undercurrent I felt and it was pretty messed up.
@@aduckofsomesort Yeah I know I have similar issues that he does. And normalizing it is great but his fans get into this weird sort of mode of treating him like he's this incapable person whom they need to nurse back to health or something. I don't necessarily blame him, but it gets weird when a good portion mix that up with romantic feelings for him which is where it starts to get weird and fetishist. Then again I'm obviously sensitive because I do have similar mental and physical issues and deal with that shit without support so maybe I am projecting a bit. I still stand by the romanticization of him being this dark brooding struggling "character" being off-putting, but that's just my opinion.
what i find both interesting and disturbing about Dream in particular is that he seemingly lifted a lot of his image/general Presence online from Cryaotic- his avatar is near identical, he uses the same handle (dreamwastaken - crywastaken), and fans used to interpret Cryaotic as a Conventionally Handsome White Boy With Brown Hair And A Green Hoodie (tm). I remember being a pretty big fan of Cry back in the day, but thankfully never dipped into the obsessive fandom around him- it was definitely there though, just like Dream's. of course, Cryaotic was recently outed as being a serial groomer of minors/fans. now, in some kind of ironic twist, dream seems to be going down a similar path of gross controversies (while he hasn't been outed as a groomer, the racism and ableism from him is a Very Bad Look on a similar scale I think). im not sure if theres a correlation/causation thing going on here, but i feel like it's worth keeping in mind. maybe theyre just two eerily similar instances of faceless youtubers making egregious mistakes in front of a Gigantic audience? No matter the conclusion to be made here, great video as always!!
hello! as a fan of dream i think he was asked that question and the two definitely aren't related, i don't remember the exact question but i don't think dream even knew who he was? regardless that is an interesting point, and i hope it doesn't turn out to be similar situations. if dream ever gets outed as a groomer i will drop him immediately but from what i've seen i don't think he's ableist (ironically he's also neurodivergent so he can reclaim the r word lol but he still apologized for it) or racist, he just used to have conservative/close-minded beliefs that he's since renounced. i don't think it'll turn out to be similar situations but we'll just have to wait and see
@@mli2883 nah the name handle is too. TOO similar for it to be a coincidence. And both dudes use an “emotion” verb as a nick? He’s definitely had influence. It’s not like he doesn’t lie abt shit, like him denying cheating on his run just to later admit to doing just that
I follow some anonymous creators that are positive but I still can't connect with them as much as with creators whose faces I can see, even though I would say a very expressive voice helps.
I find that communicating with people by texting or typing on a computer to be easier than talking to them in real life (even with my own friends) because it's easier to think beforehand about what you're going to say and to not feel any pressure from the other person to respond automatically or give the other person their preferred response when they cannot see you visibly. This can be why their fanbases are more outspoken because they feel more comfortable doing so when both sides (the faceless youtubers and the audience) are anonymous. We often forget that there is still an actual human being behind the screen even though their face isn't seen. Also I literally guffawed when I saw that in the thumbnail of your face, you had your profile pic . . . of literally your face lmaoo. Haven't laughed this hard in a long while XD Thanks for the content!
i just discovered you a couple days ago and i've been binge watching you a lot! you talk about a lot of stuff that other youtubers i watch don't talk about and i like that a lot. so cool that i could be here so soon for a new upload!
I watch a lot of gaming yt so I'm used to faceless accounts. I guess it partially comes down to how the creator carries themself in their content? If a creator uses a lot of vulgar and adult language it sort of invites the audience to respond in a similar manner. This is definitely not an excuse for fans to openly sexualize and fantasize the creator. The fandoms you mentioned should be observed in a different perspective due to the sample size of fans being in the millions. Bad behavior should never be excused but it is sort inevitable when there are so many people involved? Idk! It's a complex topic. I'm involved in the acnh community & some of the challenges dream/corpse deal with aren't as (if at all) apparent in the channels I watch. Acnh creators are usually PG since the probability of children watching is pretty high. Idk! Interesting video and congrats on the growth of your channel! Edit: I don't watch dream/corpse so I don't know what they speak about. The adult language stuff was meant to be a generalization for faceless creators.
very good video! I really like how calmly you state your points. I think a lot of fans latch onto corpse and dream specifically through watching their friends content too. And I think that even if they are very private, both of them are open about some aspects. Corpse has shared his physical and mental health struggles and dream tends to share his opinions and emotions very openly. Dream's willingness to share his thoughts rashly and emotionally is the main reason he gets into controversy, but oftentimes he later calms down and changes his mind, and I think his responsiveness makes people relate to him. I think people have good criticisms of dream, inside or outside his fanbase, the difference is that outsiders don't have a reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, take his word in good faith or to believe he will change his mind because all they see is headline after headline. But people who are invested do.
I was a HUGE fan of Corpse's horror readings for years before he got really popular. I would listen to his and Mr. Nightmare's videos throughout high school during breaks. I still have a soft spot when I hear him mentioned, but I totally fell off. He just no longer makes the kind of content I'm into. I really tried to keep supporting him but my interests just don't align. I wish him the best, though, and will always be disgusted by the people who sexualize him and spend so much time trying to dig up his identity regardless of intentions. I ended up getting to know a bit about him in the time that I did keep up with him and from the looks of it he had a rough childhood and is not in contact with his family, and before he started streaming he had no friends. Like actually none, zero. So while I'll always miss his horror days, I'm happy he's found people. He did mention in the past that a few people have recognized him in public just from his voice, but he didn't really leave his house often enough for that to be a regular thing (due to social anxiety and his chronic illness), plus he was still relatively small back then. He has agoraphobia and really bad anxiety so each time this happened it only made things worse for him. I can only imagine what it must be like now since pretty much everyone who's been on the internet has heard his voice at least once. Face reveal is off the table and I 100% support his decision. I think before fame he felt like maybe one day he would do it, but after so many people hyping up his looks the expectation is so high that he would never live up to it. He talked about it on one of the his social media platforms at least once, probably more. I feel like he's been through more than his fair share of struggles and he really doesn't deserve the hateful comments. I hope he continues to do well and persue whatever makes him happy.
My dad has a deep gravely voice and corpse just reminds me of my dad and I don’t have a DDLG kink. Seeing stans lust so openly made me stop watching corpse
as a psychology major i have to say im v impressed with the way you framed your commentary around relevant concepts. i think we have barely scratched the surface when it comes to parasocial relationships and experience-taking (projection, what u illustrated in parts 3 and 4) but there r already some studies out there that link these phenomenons to social anxiety and depression, especially in teens. personally, what REALLY bugs me abt faceless creators is the power dynamics involved. their fans r 100% invested in a brand that is basically immune to accountability. just some thoughts sorry for the long comment lol. keep up the good work!!
I think you are correct to point out how people see these TH-camrs as extensions of themselves. In a way it is similar to how we treat characters in for example video games. The main characters that you play can often be a bit of a blank slate, so it's easier for us to play them as ourselves, or at the very least to imagine their inner thoughts are similar to ours. I understand that people may do the same to creators that they like. That being said, I think there's a dimension that you haven't really discussed. It concerns parasocial relationships. I have seen a couple of cancelings of leftwing TH-camrs up close (e.g. Lindsay Ellis, Contrapoints, Philosophy Tube) and discussed these extensively with friends. Our conclusion is that when a parasocial relationship goes too far, people sort of forget that the creator in question is not their real actual friend. They may also project romantic feelings onto them - which I think are valid feelings, but just not useful, because you're not going to date your favourite TH-cam mom who lives on the other side of the planet. Anyway, so when other people criticise that person, they may feel like they have to defend them. Alternatively, when the creator does something they don't like (whether that's valid or not), they can come to see that as a personal betrayal by a *friend* they thought they could trust. When Lindsay Ellis tweeted something that some people interpreted as racist, it felt to them like their beloved TH-cam friend suddenly turned out to be problematic! (In this community, there's also the dimension of downtrodden people trying to feel some sort of control by canceling people above them who are still within reach, but that's a whole other discussion.) I think the same is happening with these faceless creators, but because viewers know less about the creators in question, there's more room for their imagination to run wild. Just like with girls thinking Noah Beck is the perfect boyfriend that they wish they had and can fantasise about actually being in a relationship with, people can now fantasise about Corpse Husband being the most attractive or coolest man on earth. Due to the nature of their content, as you've described it, they form a bond with their audience through their personalities, which in itself can engender a parasocial relationship - which I think is not necessarily bad, but they can get out of hand easily. But now that there's room for the viewer to let their imagination run rampant about this online person that they already like, they can create a perfect person in their heads. Not only someone they feel like they are genuinely connected to, but also the kindest person and someone looking however they imagine. The result is that they can mold the creator into any image they like and get extremely strongly attached to this fake image. In this way, the parasocial relationship can easily grow even stronger and more unhealthy than with a TH-camr who has a real physical presence in their videos, and when someone attacks their "perfect" friend or crush, or when this perfect person turns out to be a mere imperfect mortal, things go to shit badly. Tl;dr: we're all sad, lonely people online, and I just wanted to say I also miss Daredevil on Netflix.
I loved this video!! it really goes deep into the a theme I've been thinking about a lot. Something that I would add too, is that the fact that they are faceless enhaces the "dehumanizing" effect that Content creators already go through, for hate and love. When someone posts a rather a very "passionate" message about dream or corpse they mostly forget they r human. They either are hated as if they r the evil spawn of the devil himself, or are loved and idolatrized like a god, completely breaking any realistic expectations for them. Plus its easier to hate something u cant see, and harder to see more realistically a faceless voice. Many fans when they see a photo of him are like "wait he is actually real" and it does feel like that most of the time
A youtuber I watch, who produced very thoughtful and high-quality content, did a face reveal after a number of their videos had done super well. One of the comments was 'Oh, I thought you would be skinnier....' With reactions like that being a reality, no wonder there are people who would rather not open themselves up to public scrutiny! Now that I'm saying it, perhaps the fact that there has been no face reveal previously puts more emphasis on appearance than it would otherwise. Then again, maybe physical appearance can always be weaponised by people who get off on being awful to other people.
sorry for english - i don't know if my mumble gonna make sense, but hear me out I think that this phenomena can be actually linked with books, i know this sound weird, but when you think about it, it makes sens. So when you read a book, you bond with characters while reading, yourelate to their actions, adventures, personality - you treat them in your head as real humans even you know that they aren't, you idealize them and because they're not real you can in your imagination put them wherever you want, they are perfect because they're not actually real. With faceless creators everything is similar because once again you relate to them, to their personality etc. but i think that people still don't treat them like 'real' humans. And because they don't show their faces, people just tend to treate them as someone that isn't real they see only avatar, and not the person behind it and with that watching those creators is almost like bringing your favourite book character to life - it's more intimate then with people with faces, beacuse you can actually fantasise. And also people love mysteries so their is it.
LOL I am a Corpse and Dream stan that tries their best to promote positivity and inclusivity. To answer your last question, I am sure Corpse has people that are very very close to him, order food for him or he uses apps like Uber Eats that don't require him to speak to them directly. I loved this video and I hope to see more of them in the future!
I hope Corpse never does a face reveal. I’m a fan of his music and heard him talk about his anxiety and insecurity. I don’t want to be visually perceived either and I totally get it I wouldn’t want people talking about me that way
As person in the mcyt fans community. Yeah. I'd also pepper in the fact that most of the more vocal and active parts are especialy younger people and teenagers, which often do have stronger reactions. But as faceless youtuber enjoyer, I do get the hype about learning something new about someone who's very much a blank slate. That still doesn't give you right to harass people who dissagree with you.
I have been watching Todd in the Shadows for 11 years, and he's my absolute favorite. The appeal to me is similar to reading a book. I enjoy being able to hear his voice and imagine his facial expressions. I understand liking these "faceless" creators, but I've never blindly followed anyone I watch.
Thank you for all your patience while I finalize my move! I'm still figuring out what I want my backdrop to be, and I know this is coming out an hour later than usual so again, thank you for letting me figure it all out! I hope you all have an amazing day, take care of yourselves!
Movie?
@semi lmao OHHHH
No problem Kuncan! Take of yourself too!!
u can literally do no wrong in my eyes
No problem! Don't worry Kunc!
Can’t wait for your face reveal, Kunc!
NEVER
Kuncan and duncan
Please never use the word "Kunc" again
me too!
@@notmychairnotmyproblem kuncy
the fact that people fantasize about these faceless creators to be so attractive can only be contributing to extending the time before a face reveal and the excitement at the idea of one. the creators are also put in the spot of disappointing their audience if they are not as attractive as they were believed to be. not to mention the toll this takes on their self worth by comparing themselves to all these fanarts and cosplays and etc.
Also the people who hate them who will bash their looks
they probably aren't attractive or they'd show their face. No shame just syaing people are dumb
@@BrianaLynn7 There's more reasons than just being unattractive to not show your face, for example being shy (yes, you can be shy even if you're attractive) or liking the anonymity. Don't assume what's their reason.
@@BrianaLynn7 100% serious, I'm good looking and was well liked for my looks all through growing up. I have no reason to think otherwise but because of a mother with npd who instilled me with lots of fear of being unlovable if my hair was uncombed/ in PJs on a Saturday, I could never connect to that fact so I felt like it was some outer shell separate from me. I would also act to be liked & couldn't really turn that off unless I was totally alone. I've wanted to stream for YEARS but always felt sick to think of being on camera, of needing to act but not having an audience who's face/voice I could read to act accordingly. The new v tuber trend was the first time I ever though "holy shit maybe I could do that??" It gives a whole new shell that you can sit behind and not worry how YOU look at that moment.
On camera even with friends I'm constantly aware "oh is this a bad angle, should I hold it higher?? ugh don't emote too much it'll stretch your face in an ugly way, don't smile like that it'll make your cheeks look fat, keep your eyes open or they'll look squinty & small!" plus if I make an ugly face in person its just a flash then gone...if I do it on camera it could be there forever captured & mocked publicly, proving I'm clearly *bad*. I disagree with every bit of that but its all an internal dialogue. That shit is hard as hell to overcome let alone on camera for the internet where people are quick to cruelty. Then needing to naturally talk/be enjoyable to listen to and it can feel nightmarish to do all at once. being ugly has nothing to do with any of that, its not having a concrete sense of self worth as a kid basically.
I'm sure I can't count the many other ways people might not want to. long reply lol but looks aint all that helpful without some confidence/mental health to support them.
@@BrianaLynn7 yeahhh no. Some people are just uncomfortable on camera despite being attractive.
Have you seen the pic people are passing around of “Dream”? It makes me so sad. If it is him he’s getting fat shamed by millions. It it’s not him some random kid is getting fat shamed by millions. :(
@@MsMusicfreak666 even worse, the kid in the pic looks about 16 or so. Something about dragging someone’s past photos out and mocking them makes me very upset.
I had to unfollow a drama TH-camr when he posted pictures of Jeffree star from high school. I dislike Jeffree as much as the next TH-camr user, but that’s lower than low.
I am nowhere near a dream stan, quite the opposite, but I just hate this. Everyone who participated in tearing that poor kid to shreds should be ashamed of themselves, even if it ends up being Dream himself.
I will absolutely never understand when people criticize controversial creators’ looks. If they are in some kind of scandal then comment about their scandal and their actions and why they’re bad. Don’t comment on something they can’t control like their looks. It literally does nothing except make that person and people who might look like them feel awful about themselves. It can also lead the creator to write off any criticism as “hate” instead of listening to the actually co structure criticism that they’re also getting. A good example of that is Jaclyn Hill. She’s done a lot of stuff worth criticizing, but she gets so much hate for her looks that she just writes everything off as hate and doesn’t listen to any feedback at all.
right seeing everyone dunk on that kid was so upsetting and uneccessary?? there wasnt any proof that it even was dream but people just dunked on him
As much as I dislike dream, that whole situation actually really did make me upset. No one deserves to be made fun of for their appearance, especially if it’s something they cannot control.
Kuncan Duster: *makes a joke about the video being long*
Me, who regularly binge-watches 45 min video essays: *sweats*
Oh yeah maybe someday I'll make videos that long but my brain be too broken
@@KuncanDastner please do! I think you would thrive in longer videos! Sometimes i am really confused that the video is already over, because I feel like you have still so much to say and I want to hear more!
It's a big change from rewatching a 2 hour video essay for the 12th time
Me waiting for the day he makes videos that long
@@KuncanDastner 100k special?
There are also those faceless Asian (Korean) TH-camrs that hardly talk but just vlog their life (cooking, studying, cleaning, preparing for work, school or stay-at-home stuff). Their very popular and rely a lot on aesthetics in comparison to western faceless TH-camrs.
Yes!! I follow quite a few, and I find it interesting how I don't find a lot of comments speculating about their face. Maybe it has something to with the fact their sharing so much of their lives with us already, so there's no need to go digging for even more info about them?
@@starzies interesting. Maybe it could also be because if they aren’t talking much, viewers are more there for the content than for the creator’s personality, so viewers don’t speculate as much about their personal details.
Just realized this. Good point!
@@starzies I think it’s because those types of videos are viewed upon a certain type of people cooking cleaning studying is what others come for I wouldn’t aspect those that are demanding to be watching
i assume it’s because in those kinds of videos, people mostly come for the content instead of the content creator itself-if that makes sense. a lot of these popular faceless youtubers have fans (or, stans, if you want to go that direction) that watch them for them which can be nice but can also be very dangerous for both the audience and the cc.
if u ever wanna become a faceless youtuber, you should have an undercover name. off the top of my head, maybe duncan kastner? a little nod to your real name, kuncan.
I'll have to commit even further and go by KunKast DastCan or something
kuncly duncly
@@KuncanDastner sounds like Comcast Dashcam. Not the worst screen name, to be honest.
i guess another issue with faceless creators is that they've essentially turned themselves into brand, a mascot, as if they *are* the logo. this affects the actions of both sides, since stans begin to form a kind of brand dependency whereas the antis begin to criticize him as if he isn't a person anymore, treating him like any faceless corporation that only makes decisions to increase profits.
Why be a faceless TH-camr when you can be a voiceless TH-camr? I'd just post videos of myself talking and discussing important topics, but with no sound.
Elite
There is youtubers who used text to speech who discuss certain topics
davie504
Regarding little yoda - i think both Dream and Corpse have company of rather cute friends like George and Sykkuno - people that audience would love to spend time with and they can if they project themselves into Dream and Corpse.
trueee
This same idea applies to Hello Kitty! She doesn't have a mouth so her expression/feeling can be whatever the viewer wants/is experiencing. It's an intentional part of her design
About your ending question (how corpse doesn’t get recognized) he’s actually addressed this on his Instagram. He has had people recognize his voice in drive thrus etc and it fuels his social anxiety and agoraphobia. From what I understand he very rarely leaves his home or apartment and he avoids people as much as possible. I’m just a casual fan so stans may need to correct me.
wow if that’s true i wonder how it effects his mental health? that has to be a massive pressure of never being seen, if his appearance gets outed i also wonder how he will progress from there in terms of potential backlash for not “living up to expectations”
See nothing wrong here. He's also mentioned he hasn't gone to physical therapy cause he's worried about being recognized. Even having food delivered is something he worries about.
@@kamrav4002 he does have extreme agoraphobia and when people recognize his voice, he just shuts down. i honestly feel bad for him in a lot of ways because he has a lot of mental health issues and being in such a harsh spotlight only exacerbates all of that.
i'd highly recommend watching anthony padilla's interview with him for a more in-depth understanding of him as a person and as a creator/character.
This is true. I watched him before he blew up, and I know since he has he’s terrified to be recognized and also very scared to ever have anyone find out who he is because he says he won’t meet the standards of these millions of fans
oh god the anxiety. but props for the people who recognized him in public and didn’t spread his real identity online
"Twitter is a nightmare." Truer words never spoken.
twitter is terrifying.
Twitter is a toilet
People on Twitter are all insane, if you're successful they will use anything to cancel you.
I wouldn't be able to remain faceless. I totally get why corpse is, he explained his situation and state of mind pretty clearly. Don't follow dream so can't say anything about him. But living with the stress of someone finding out my identity would take the best of me. Specially with something as identifiable as corpse's voice. He barely ever leaves the house, barely have friends. And yeah, him being faceless makes many horny girls follow him for the image of that Greek god in their heads, but he's a nice, genuine guy that messes with nobody and shares his music and videos for free with everyone. His story is inspirational tbh and even though I'm not into the genre he creates, I listen to his music because of him. Because I want to support him, and because I like new things. Idk there's something about him as a person that make him so likable. There's just much more to him than being a faceless TH-camr. He's been one for years but only when he began playing among us and people got to know him better, is when he blew up
He’s very charismatic and has such a likable personality that I couldn’t believe that he even had haters at first and it came as a huge shock to me, he’s so genuine, kind, naturally funny and unproblematic and deserves all the success he’s had until now and even more
@@ninirozhy simply being widely liked can attract haters. It's kinda like a popular person in high school who also happens to be nice, funny, smart, etc. Watching them from a distance, some people get suspicious: they couldn't possibly be all that. What's the catch?
@@k3upikachu exactly that’s why all popular things have so many haters for absolutely no reason people going as far as even stalking their likes and desperately looking for any tweet from four years ago to justify hating someone :/
@@ninirozhy watch contrapoints' latest video on envy!!
@@k3upikachu sure will if I have the time :))
interesting
Now I'm embarrassed I didn't include you, how could I miss the best example
Kwite!!!!!❤️
Quite
im cryinf kwite watches kuncan and i cant comprehend this
Hiii ily
I think part of the reason that stans tend to be so aggressive, at least in Corpse’s case, is that he suffers from mental health issues which is why he chose to be faceless. Fans probably feel protective over him and want to attack anyone that might make him feel bad. He is very open about his mental health struggles and his fan base connects with that, but they also forget that he is an adult and that yelling at strangers on the internet isn’t actually helping much.
That and he just comes off as weird with it and makes it his whole personality. It seems like a big pity party. Personally in the beginning I liked his music and thought he was slightly genuine but my opinion has changed quickly.
as an identical twin yes it lowkey hurts when someone calls my sibling ugly like bro,, im not ugly but ok
@@black_girl_magic screw those people, their opinions don't matter
@@black_girl_magic you are beautiful, don’t listen to what a bunch of jealous idiots say about you! The only opinion that should matter about yourself is yours!
what’s even worse is when someone who looks just like you calls THEMSELF ugly 😭😭 like ???? WE ARE THE SAME 😭
@@black_girl_magic punt them💖
As someone who is in the my hero fandom, the dream fandom scares the crap out of me. I thought I had seen it all from the MHA fandom, but noooo the dream fandom had to traumatize me more
same-
Unrelated but I love ur pfp
@@lordlehuezerher thank you
@@mewow3556 I too love your pfp
And just gotta add, not an mha fan but I do love several shows with really… strange fanbases. Love the shows, STAY OUT OF THE FANDOM
I feel thw same, but with genshin's horrible fanbase💀
i’m very sorry about the sunscreen chapstick. that must have been gross
I didn't even notice for so long it was embarassing
I think the way stans aggressively defend dream is definitely in part due to their age. Most of his fanbase is younger than he is, and I know I would defend the people I stanned when I was in middle/high school pretty much the same way
I would never be an anonymous/faceless TH-camr, I mean I will never even be a TH-cam but, it creates more pressure then just showing your face, people will draw you so attractively and expect good looks based on voices/videos/hand pics whatever it is. And I feel like you would have a huge expectation from everyone that you would have to reach, and be scared of not reaching everyones extreme expectation.
Oh yeah I didn't even touch on the pressure of a reveal, that's a huge part of it
I would rather be l faceless. At least you can leave to go to the grocery store in peace.
I think there’s definitely benefits and disadvantages for both faceless and public TH-camrs. It just depends on what the person is comfortable with and willing to risk
@@KuncanDastner yes that also, I wouldn't be surprised if some people like corpse and dream smp will never show their faces unless it was a leak, and that's another thing, leaks what if something leaks it could potentially break the internet lol
honestly that’s why i never would be a faceless creator either. i’d rather not have to deal with the pressure of having to hide your face or the possibility of it getting leaked or the pressure of a face reveal. like i understand people’s reasoning for why they’re faceless but i just know i’d be paranoid all the time. especially bc no matter what you will never reach anyone’s expectations
The kunk nation army can’t be stopped
Kunk Nation...
@@KuncanDastner get kunky wit it
i’ll leave
@@itsathi6055 that made me laugh ty!
@@itsathi6055 I guess that’s the channel slogan now
What with all the growth, we DO find ourselves in need of a fanbase title. Personally I would be happy to consider myself part of Kunk Nation
I personally love both dream and corpse, but it’s crazy how toxic their fans/stans can get :(
The ppl who hate them are just as bad, maybe even worse.
@@cinnamonfairyfluff I agree, especially now, all the scrutiny and controversies just seem so exhausting. It's so clear that any 'controversy' can be resolved with a calm and civil conversation but because of the hellsite that is Twitter, everyone is constantly in a state of outrage and then everything is a shitshow of screaming on both sides so even intelligent and necessary discourse is buried under hoards of people just screaming at each other willing to die on a hill they probably don't even understand and aahh I'm very frustrated with Twitter in general and I'm not even on it!
@@cinnamonfairyfluff yeah
@@rakshyakharel9398 exactly. i think what armani was saying was genuinely valid and a good conversation could’ve been had. i love watching the occasional mcyt but i feel so ostracized as a black person watching because they make jokes that are rooted in anti-blackness or use aave as the butt of a joke. obviously it’s not intentional but had dream not shut her down he could’ve walked away with new knowledge to make his poc fans more comfortable.
@@rakshyakharel9398 EXACTLY. I've seen just as many hate accounts for Dream and Corpse as I have stan accounts. I don't understand people who fixate on those they claim to hate. I can kinda get why so many ppl dislike Dream, because he's argumentative and isn't the best with phrasing sentences, so a lot of his tweets get easily misinterpreted (like the tweet where he tries to make an analogy about loving his fans in the same way he loves kittens, but it ended up sounding creepy) He's very quick to respond to criticism and hate, rather than collecting his thoughts and thinking it through. He also is very stubborn, and sticks to his words, and rarely listens to the opposing point. But at the same time, I get his point of view. He has a huge population on the internet who hate his guts and want to doxx him. It'd be pretty damn hard to stay cool-headed in an environment like that. It's also gross that ppl are trying to leak his face rn. It's so creepy and stalker-ish that they're going THAT far, just to prove a point. As for Corpse, ppl just literally hate him because he has a unique voice. Literally, that's the only reason. They go to great lengths to prove his voice is fake and whatnot, and it's just so mind boggling, the hoops these ppl jump through to "expose" him for literally just playing Among Us and hanging out with his friends. It's the same story with Wolfychu and Lilypichu. If your voice isn't completely average on the internet, you'll get hate.
Don't get me wrong, the bad stans are BAAAAD, but ppl act like that's the whole community, when, in reality, it's maybe like 5 ppl in a crowd of millions. I'm not a stan, but I am a fan of the Dream SMP, I love the entire group of content creators, and I've genuinely never seen a sweeter fanbase. Everybody is so warm and kind to one another, and it's just such a supportive atmosphere. Corpse's fans are a lil more thirsty and sexual, but as long as Corpse is chill with it, then I genuinely don't see a problem. And yes, I get that it's annoying to see Corpse and Dream SMP stuff trending on Twitter all the time, but I don't get why ppl can't just ignore it? There's literally a button where you can press "I'm not interested in this trend" and it'll hide it. It's that simple.
Sorry for the rant!!! I have a lot of thoughts on this particular topic that've been festering in my brain for faaar too long lmao.
also, i'd like to clarify to you that the corpse thing was all satire. corpse posted the strands of hair as jokes (because he literally tweeted with #onlystrands LOL 😭 ), and most of his fandom ran with the joke - only the bad apples who just oversexualized him and were creepy about it. the rest of the internet interpreted this as all his fans thirsting over his literal hair because it was trending so quickly (which again, you can, some did), and it suddenly was an outlet for people to send MORE hate. you can find more about this in anthony padilla's video I spent a day with CORPSE! :)
Same things happens with dream and stuff that gets trending thats innocuous can make the rest of the internet think someone’s being obsessively creepy. I just think random Twitter guys with no experience of anything fandom before or who already don’t like the idea of any fans or stans assume everyone is being serious always. It’s like one of the tweets shown use the phrase dream my beloved which as a corpse fan you probably have heard a some point. Like my beloved is ironic or atleast jokey because of those heart locked gifs and a ranboo one that said ranboo my beloved.
@@lieeeleeee yeah
@@lieeeleeee yes! in the fandom, especially in ones as big as dreams and corpses, there are a lot of inside jokes, and outsiders who don't know about it may misunderstand and perceive it to be "creepy" and "obsessive." the ranboo heart chain this is innocent enough, but watch some ppl on twitter morph it into something about parasocial relationships and manipulation
still annoying tho
He totally knew they would run with it though
As a Minecraft watcher who enjoys Dream, I think a big reason why a lot of his controversies get blown up also has to do with the way he responds to things. He’s got a big ego and a short fuse and that tends to cause him to respond to things it’s better he doesn’t, or to mishandle situations. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that he blew up incredibly quickly, and on top of that, being faceless obviously causes things to be a lot worse. Existing on twitter as a fan of him and similar creators is a lot, and I’ve noticed how hectic being a fan of him is compared to other Minecraft streamers/youtubers. It’s caused me to distance my enjoyment of him due to the stress being a fan of his can sometimes put on me. Thank you for this video! I love your stuff. :)
i agree!! he’s honestly a really good cc but his responses to drama and the general twt fan base can be very overwhelming and more stressful than fun tbh
yeah as a dream 'stan' i agree with this a lot
the reactionary nature in which he responds to stuff initially just serves to fan the flames
i don't really blame him for acting so passionately, especially since he does come to regret it often, and there's a lot of factors that affect the way he in particular responds to drama (the intense and often unfair standards of his accusers, the whole faceless youtuber thing, his adhd, plus the stuff you mentioned, etc.)
like sometimes he has a point, sometimes he doesn't but just the way he handles things can turn out to be really irresponsible and do more harm than good
i love the guy, i love his content, i think he's a good person with good intentions but he really needs to chill and learn how to better respond to drama
@@mli2883 you explained how I feel perfectly!
@@mli2883 yes
I feel like he's quite similar to James Charles in the way he handles problems online. Dream is very impulsive and bad with words. On the other hand, when he does adress problems he dances around the topic too much and doesn't really talk about the main issue. Dream turning a legit concern from a minor about parasocial relationships into a copypasta to deflect criticism on his relationship with his fanbase is one of those examples. I don't think he's malicious but he needs to change the way he approaches things.
The thing that's annoying about TH-camrs like Dream and Corpse is that you never find somebody who's like "Yeah, they're fine. I don't really have an opinion on them." It's either "I would die for him!" or "I want to kill him!" and their is no in between. The haters are just as obsessed and psycho as their fans are.
fucking agreed it's insane the amount of passio people put towards people they only know about on the internet it's like people forget they're people and not like fictional characters who are either purely evil or innocent
the thing that sucks the most imo is that genuine criticisms get overshadowed by people doxxing and sending death threats. instead of productive conversation we get performative bullshit
There are plenty of people like that, but they just don't feel the need to talk lol. Everything always seems more polarized than it is because people only yell when they have an opinion. Indifference is quiet
@@k3upikachu Ahh, yeah that's true.
I Just Accepted That Anti (Insert Topic Here) People Are Just As Toxic As Pro (Insert Topic Here) People, If Not Worst. It's Just Weird How People Who Against Something Because It's Toxic But Also Being Toxic Barely Gets Called Out. Well I Know A Few Reasons Why But That's A Rant For Another Day
@@k3upikachu Yep
I feel like sometimes the lack of a face to put to someone can dehumanize them to people, causing both fans and people who don't like a create to act out in ways they might not always. Other people in the comments have mentioned how corpse's fans sexualize him to an extent that can be hard to live up to, this seems it might come from an idealized vision of who he might be based on his content and voice but it also might come from a fact they see him less as a person and more as a character, idk
I think another thing to consider is the huge community of friends both Corpse and Dream use in their videos/streams so fans are able to have hours of similar content. Dream has the Dream SMP, filled with people who interact with him and have their own personalities so it reels more fans in and encourages them to stay. If Dream isn’t my favorite but I enjoy watching his close friend George, I’ll probably watch Dream videos and stay updated on him through default. The same goes with Corpse and his Among Us lobbies. People like Sykkuno, Rae, Toast, Tina, and all the other streamers that he plays with allows him to quietly listen and keep the same audience retention. Corpse doesn’t stream very often, but if he appears in his friends’ videos, so fans have to almost seek that content out.
I don't know anything about these people but I have heard that the husband guy is disabled with something that gives him chronic pain so there may not be people in his life that need to figure out who he is. When you are homebound you have only a few people in your life and they have to be the closest people to you. If he does have friends they are going to be so close that they wouldn't out him and any caretakers aren't likely to know what his online persona actually entails or how popular he really is.
I think there is a huge gender aspect to this thing that you missed. It's definitely not a coincidence that the most popular "faceless" personalities are all men.
He's got fibromyalgia and some nerve problems that I think is still undiagnosed or he hasn't said what it is.
Corpse has a lot of chronic illness such as fibromyalgia, thoracic outlet syndrome, and GERD. He also has to wear an eye patch due to the blue light from his computer. He doesn’t like to leave his home because he’s agoraphobic and he’s also scared someone might recognize his voice. He doesn’t have any care takers. And he does have friends. He’s only shown some of his friends what he looks like.
With all the Dream drama in the air, it's very cool to see your take on this topic :) I feel like it's really easy to love someone when you can imagine them however you like, and I don't just me attractiveness. No matter how judgmental you are, it's human nature to make assumptions when you see someone. How they keep themselves, how they look, facial expressions, etc etc. However, you can fill in the blanks when you aren't given a face which is appealing to many. The same applies to hating them. Plus, without a face, it's much easier to hate someone because they feel less like a person and more like a personality. As someone into mcyt a bit who doesn't use twitter or engage with stans very much outside of watching from a safe distance, I think I speak for everyone when I say it's very very hectic.
I think you're absolutely right! It's funny how hiding your face makes people focus on it more, I can't imagine upholding this kind of content style
Ngl I wish more people would try to make a job out of the internet while anonymous. The people that would be popular would be actually talented people or genuinely nice personalities instead of nice faces that fool naive people.
Corpse has a lot of in jokes with his fans. Things like onlystrands, he told fans he'd share a photo of his hair strands for getting a mill on insta, fans thought he'd post a photo of his hair, so when he posted that image fans just went with it. So much of the interaction with Corpse and his fans is too have fun, he spends lot of time offline so when he's online Corpse tries to give back to fans(he mentions this during his streams) by interacting with them. Lots of fans want to actively protect corpse from hate he gets cause a lot of the hate targeted to him is because people dont think hes deserving of fans since they hate that he's suddenly big for in their opinions no reason and for things they don't like. Him posting a blank tweet got him death threats because his fans interacted. Fans react so big to things he does are for usually 2 reasons, to show Corpse they care about him/the things he's makes and because it makes non-corpse fans angry. It doesn't help that a lot of his fans on twitter that are vocal are seemingly girls and anything girls like get a lot of unnecessarily hate.
While there are def those fans who are just horny for him and sexualize him since he is a male with a deep voice, a lot of the fans like how he can be an honest and genuine person, his personality is easy to like and he's funny to boot. He's very open about his health struggles (physical and mental) so people can relate to those things.
I can't even imagine. Because they're faceless, people attach a whole pretend face or body to the person, and it's always an incredibly attractive person that people imagine, how are they supposed to live up to all the expectations? Also, it must be terrifying as well to have so many people dig through your information, trying to find you, I mean, look what happened to dream yesterday, it must be so stressful, especially for people like Corpse Husband, with incredibly recognizable voices..
Slightly tangential, but as a tiny faceless creator, eventhough nobody is checking for me, its still weirdly nerve-wracking putting out content. I keep having to remind myself that I'm anonymous. I would recommend it as a first step into the content creating world, if you don't want your face out there though. You can always decide to show your face later if you want. Great video, and I love that you used Mando and the kid in this. :):)
Also faceless content creator here! And yes, also a tiny creator! Also yeah I’d recommend being faceless first, then at least you can hold a degree of anonymity :)
Of course it is different for everything and some creators cannot be faceless so it all depends on the person and what they want to share to the world
@@thechroniclesofthesuperhob167 That's true, and TH-cam would be a pretty grim experience if nobody showed their faces, so I definitely appreciate that a lot of people do.
@@Internetrando agreed. Hope the YouTubing goes well and you go from ‘tiny’ to...well whatever suits you I suppose :)
@@thechroniclesofthesuperhob167 Haha how wholesome, thanks. Same to you!
Im not in mcyt, but everytime they are on my tl its something bad. Either racist shit, manipulation, parasocial problem, etc. Its so weird. And their stans my god. I only follow Corpse and Sykkuno and wont dive in the fandom for sure LMAO
Also yeah about how the fans draw them attractively, this reminds me of a tweet. How Dream's ego must be big bc how amazing and gorgeous his fanarts look. Idk abt Dream, but Corpse has spoken about expectations and he frequently felt stressed about it its so sad :(
I agree but I’d say the opposite of the “dreams fanart makes his ego bigger” I think if everyone drew me really attractive without knowing what I look like I’d be really sad and stressed since their expectations are so high😭
I'm inside the fandom, and let me tell you, whenever Dream did something wrong, my tl is immediately filled with stans criticizing him. In my tl, it was mostly antis that just hate on him without giving an actual criticism. People just see what they want to see without acknowledging that there are both sides to each stories smh.
And yeah Dream is not worried about his face reveal, like at all, because he never meant to be a faceless youtuber in the first place. And following the man, I'd say that's because he's more confident in his ability and that his fans follow him because of that rather than his personality or look.
I can tell you it's not all MCYT it's specific parts. like everyone on HC is wonderful as far as I can tell I mean they could all be assholes and we would know. but I'd like the community around HC is just wonderful if you look up HC animations it's not all of us. and a lot of DSMP is good to especially the story the story is amazing. especially on the dream SMP Ranboo our beloved.
i don't know too much about corpse, but from what i've seen of the dreams fandom, there's a weird stigma around criticizing the creators whose content you consume.
dream dropped pride merch the other day and i saw someone tweet about how it didn't sit right with them because he's a straight cis man and he's keeping the profits from it (at least i think he's cishet, some say he's said he's unlabeled, others say he's said he's straight. he's certainly not openly queer i'll say that much) but the poor kid who tweeted that- i think her bio said she was 15- got harassed by hundreds of people for that lukewarm take. and she was a stan too!! but she tried to criticize one thing dream did and instead of engaging in a discussion about it, like 600 people bullied her. it was so disgusting, lowkey ruined my day because everyone involved was probably super young- and that shit is so bad for your mental health ://
also.... the tweet was pretty reasonable?? like he and his friends have donated 50k to the trevor project which is incredible, but they're all millionaires so it's not like they need the profit from this. it's just a weird thing to do, especially given some of the queerbaiting shit he got called out for. like wow some of those compilations of him and george give me flashbacks to the BBC's sherlock. and when they play it up it invites more queer kids into their audience, queer kids that they're now profiting off of.
yeah I remember that, misinformation of his pride merch only being at a 10% profit to an lgbtq+ charity sparked a lot of outrage from both critiquers and defenders of him. It was actually 10% of the revenue that was donated, a fair bit more. However, the fact he's likely still profiting off pride merch as a cis likely heterosexual creator still feels very icky.
People don't understand that you don't need to hate or love a creator, there can be a healthy middleground whereas you enjoy the content, like the creator, perhaps even find them to be your favourite, but don't condone every single one of their decisions and opinions. People can not like something a person does and still like the person, it doesn't have to be either of the extremes.
You know it’s not even the fact that he’s straight that bothers me about that. Its the fact that he gets into so many controversies for saying shitty things which Duncan said included slurs. So it feels super disingenuous clearly social improvement is not on his agenda. I don’t even understand how these creators are tweeting slurs it’s so ridiculously easy not too what’re they thinking
I think a lot of people like feeling like they are a detective, in a group working to figure something out. It reminds me of how obsessive fans were about Dan and Phil since their sexualities and relationship to each other wasn’t public info
As someone who enjoys Dreams content I am terrified of some of the fans. People have attacked me from inside the fan base for not understanding something or for seeing both sides in a controversy. I've just learned to stay away from twitter stans.
agreed. before i came on twitter i thought the fanbase was pretty tame but then i made an account. there's some really baffling disturbing behavior on there
i just keep the account for stream notifications nowadays
Same here my dude. Mycttwt is facking terrifying. I dont even use twitter but god damn I kept seeing contreversies/drama left and right where ever social media i go :^)
Kuncan Dastner: "Dream and Corpse stans are on another level."
Gabbie Stans: "Hold my beer, I've gotta dox this 12 year-old."
We finally got the hair reveal we wanted
As someone pretty deep in the mcyt fandom, ive noticed how viewers, and even other content creators, dont discuss Dream as if he were another human content creator? The way opinions about him are stated, either postive or negative, are always so extreme and dehumanizing, its fascinating to look at (in the worst way rip)
As if talking about a fictional character that wont be impacted about it directly..
The lesser is known about a creator, the easier it is to impart your own belief and quirks onto them, only strengthening the parasocial bond. Of course those fans would feel a more personal connection and therefore react more defensively.
Your energy is the most like original thing I’ve ever seen. It’s like your so funny and energetic but also calm. I’m so glad the algorithm gods have blessed me. 💅✨🌈
I think alot of the problems with dream stans is related to their age. Many of them are young so they don't understand boundaries. I watch alot of MCYT and still don't understand the fans. I also think that people's dislike of dream outside of criticism of his actions are about hating what teenage girls like.
hot take from a sapphic : probably also has something to do with comphet
I too as a teenager would find the idea of a faceless man who's "safe" or that I can make in my head to be "safe" appealing, same reason why a lot of us are fans of fictional men. It's a coping mechanism against the pressure of heteronormativity from what I understand
This makes so much sense looking back as a sapphic myself... I would say in the past that I preferred fictional men over real men and now I realize the reason was that I found them safer and more likable than the ones I had met.
Being faceless gives fans more room to idealize and romanticize the creator. Gaps get filled by fantasy, and people get hooked on it.
I also think this cartoon character/mystery thing might work better for a younger audience, which I think both Corpse and Dream have.
Anonymity _is_ a fascinating choice for artists/creators. I think of Banksy, and how he's managed to keep his identity secret all these years. He's concerned about repercussions for the illegality of his work, so there's good reason for the secrecy. But even some stage performers prefer to obscure their faces, like Sia wears oversized wigs for privacy, and Orville Peck wears fringed masks to help with his creative expression. It's all very intriguing. I imagine all of these people struggle with fame a bit. I relate to their wanting to hide away.
as an ex cryaotic fan, the whole "faceless" thing unsettles me now 😬
came here to say this!
when dream was first becoming popular and I saw the masked avatar thing i was confused because it looks so similar and i didnt see anyone mentioning it lol. and then the whole shit with cry was revealed and i never considered watching dream's content after that cause i hate thinking about anything related to cry 🤪
like obviously any online personality has a position of power to take advantage of young fans (as has been proven with many of them unfortunately) but yeah masked avatars more than anything else have a negative association in my mind. not saying anything about dream personally, just hate constantly seeing the similarities. like, @dreamwastaken? jesus.
You absolutely deserve all the channel growth you've gotten. I do have a theory about the corpse voice thing. There's a line in Invincible that Atomic Eve says that goes something along the lines of 'if you're not looking for atomic eve in high school, then you won't find her. You'll find someone that looks like her but you won't believe it is her.' and while fictional I think there may be some truth to that. Like if you aren't expecting to hear corpse, then you won't? I dunno, just a thought.
also the mic might alter the voice slightly? not too sure tho
In the Anthony Padilla video he literally says how scared he is to talk to ANYONE in real life... Poor guy. 😳
once i got doxxed along with death threats from dream stans for saying that i didnt particularly like his content, the dream fandom is so scary😭💀
It's tricky trying to give someone healthy criticism when their fans will attack you like that, I'm sorry
I'm sorry you had to go through that, death threat is never right. But I promise not all of them are like that. Toxic people will always be toxic no matter where they are. Like, I've also seen a dream stan getting death threats just because they draw Dream. I'ts crazy how easy it is for someone to just send out death threats..
@@emailputri4 yup, and its really hard to not generalise dreams audience when most people only ever see those toxic people even tho there are some rlly nice people but ig they kinda get outweighed🤷
those are the kind of people that make me hate this community, i am so so sorry that happened to you
I feel like it's more difficult for a female faceless content creator to gain traction. Often women's fans are made up of a good percentage of people who follow them for their looks.
I think it's also important to highlight that the main prominent "faceless" female content creators are vtubers. Their IRL appearances and identities are kept secret like Dream and Corpse's, but their drawn appearances are still a key part of their marketability. If they were just anonymous female voices talking over gameplay there's no way most of their viewers would even bother giving them a chance (and I'm saying this as someone who adores Calliope Mori and watches her for her non-fiction personality and talent rather than her fictional anime appearance or character. I acknowledge that I never would have discovered her if not for the people who initially were attracted to her character design and aesthetics).
@@RariettyC I couldn't have said it better myself!
gaining traction is in the hands of faith, faith being an algorithm fed by random dumb fucks on the internet
they're just regular-ass human begins who happen to have a platform. one thing that I DO dislike is their fanbase,,,, I'd hate to have the fear of finally doing a face reveal and then not live up to the forced upon expectations of a bunch of 14-year-olds
(also congrats on 2mil views kuncan!!)
As soon as you started talking about faceless youtubers, I thought about Cryaotic. And you’re right, this seems to apply to most faceless youtubers. Especially gamers.
It must be rough being a faceless creator(specifically those who use art to represent themselves) because if you don't match the image of the fantasies your audience has projected into you, your fanbase may turn against you.
another banger by kuncan! i’m so so excited that’s you’re getting blessed by the youtube gods, and hope that your community stays kind & relatively pressure-free
Too early its me leaving another duncan video for this one, love being apart of the growth now. Newest addiction.
You’re the perfect youtuber to binge watch 11/10
Possible video squeal: Anonymous and Faceless TH-camrs and how if they're called out or cancelled for something they don't _really_ get consequences to their actions. See *_Cryatoic,_* the *_original Dream._*
Fame, money, and power can go to your head. We've seen that. But being an anonymous and faceless adds to the potential harm they can do. You can be mad a someone who's not faceless and if they get pushed off of platforms they're kind of done but the anonymous could just re-brand and keep going.
so glad someone mentioned cryaotic. i was so unnerved this year when dream became popular just because their personas looked so similar. wouldn’t want a repeat of what happened with cry
@@mouse6809 I definitely feel this ;-; was so shocked to learn about all the cry things, with a lot of TH-camrs I used to follow coming around and being…. Groomers and pedos essentially ;-; looking at minilad too
Great video! The only thing i’d like to point is that often “dream stan” is used as un umbrella term for every account that is interested in mcyt. On twitter for example (arguably the app that allows the most toxicity) there aren’t as many dream stans as you might think, it’s just that dream has become a sort of representative of the whole community and gets all the shit for that. Don’t get me wrong, there is valid criticism but most of those controversies could be easily avoided…
Haven't seen the full video but my opinion on this is that I would be fucking terrified. If people were making conventionally attractive fanart of me I would get anxious that if I showed my face, people would get upset that I don't meet their expectations.
Duncan: *talks about how long his video was*
Me: *laughs in dangelowallace and stream binger*
This is the one commentary channel I've seen where the creator really tries to have an unbiased opinion. He also doesn't use clickbait titles, force people to do certain things with his content, or convince others that his opinion is the best opinion. Thank you Kuncan for being a great inspiration :)
I honestly personally think that for Dream, the toxic fans are there cus dream gets into controversy so much so everytime someone makes fun of him or criticize him, the fans just jump on and assume the person is a hater and they try and shut down that person.
And as for corpse... A lot(or atlest the most seen ones) of his fans are really obsessive and it's honestly quite toxic to corpse aswell since a lot of people are subscribed to corpse not really for his gameplay but only for his voice, that's why a lot of them are so obsessive over his looks(I'm not saying that all his fans are like this, a lot of them are lovely people but this is mostly just an observation that I made of both dream and corpse since I was apart of their fandom for a while and still watch them from time to time)
Oh and also most of these stans are probably children (just saying) ;-;
A few people have recognized corpse due to his voice, but he relatively stays at home 24/7. You can say he's a bit of a hikikomori in that aspect. Though he's only like that because of his extreme health condition. The reason his voice is deep in the first place is because of Gerd. The man doesn't seem like he'll live till 50, which is sad.
You are the first person to mention that part and it genuinely saddened me.
As a Dream Stan, homeboy needs a PR team bc that might help his controversy responses 😭
in all honesty the voice thing with corpse husband is a really interesting point to bring up, it IS strange how nobody has given him away with such a distinct trait. I wonder if it’s almost scary to be afraid of someone with ill intent giving his identity away.
I definitely do this with other creators as well. Because they're showing a very singular side of themselves, there's a huge part of them that the viewer never sees. So, the viewer can project themselves onto the creator to "fill in the gaps." I always catch myself doing thing, and I remind myself that I really don't know hardly anything about creators. And then I get sad. lol
i'm a very big fan of both corpse and dream, honestly i would call myself a stan. i'm big into minecraft youtube in general, funnily enough my favourite streamer is another faceless minecrafter. i really admire that you were able to recognize that dream stans specifically get so defensive because dream gets a lot of unnecessary hate from antis. while i don't think this excuses the incredibly toxic behaviour and death threats it's nice to finally see a creator talking about dream and acknowledging that this is in part a defensive mechanism to all the shit dream and his fans get from randos on twitter and other large content creators.
agreed, while he has some stuff he needs to work on people always go extreme
nobody ever talks about the ridiculous amount of hate dream gets back, this video is so refreshing in that sense
@@mli2883 YOOOO same bruh, like i am scared to think how many death threats that guy gets on a DAILY basis. i'm not sure how he does it actually, i don't know how he's able to handle the barrage of hate he gets anytime his name is brought up. i could never honestly.
Hi hello, local simp here.
Don't ever hesitate to turn your fan/ac on while filming. Just saying this because many TH-camrs take the L rather than taking care of themselves.
I haven’t watched/ listened to Corpse Husband in about a year but he actually discussed this kind of content. He seemed really overwhelmed with how much fame he got so fast (and probably still is). It would be so overwhelming to have such intense fans seemingly out of no where
I forgot to comment this on the actual video about stans so I’ll comment on this one for the algorithm but
I’m really happy that for once someone (aka you!) is not bashing Stan culture
It's so weird how caught up people can over what someone looks like.
Why is that so important?
People are angry that the invisible man from hotel transylvania isnt hot like they imagined him to be.
It just makes me want to disconnect my wifi.
I kinda don’t understand fans in general. I like certain people who make things, whether that be music/videos/art, but I don’t consider myself a fan of anyone. It just feels weird and like a waste of time.
Yepp
A huge thing with corpse fans is they are always falling into this “aw he’s really going through a lot let’s not pressure him or do x or y” I don’t think that is his fault but it feels like he’s unintentionally curated this fan base of women who want to take care of him, give him therapy and chicken noodle soup, be his support system (it doesn’t help he talks about not having friends and all his mental and health struggles in a “woe is me” way quite a lot, but that is likely for the fans). Basically he’s that person who is always going through something, obviously I hope he is doing better but I don’t know if he’d even admit if he was because his fans expect him to be struggling-that is always the undercurrent I felt and it was pretty messed up.
@@aduckofsomesort Yeah I know I have similar issues that he does. And normalizing it is great but his fans get into this weird sort of mode of treating him like he's this incapable person whom they need to nurse back to health or something. I don't necessarily blame him, but it gets weird when a good portion mix that up with romantic feelings for him which is where it starts to get weird and fetishist.
Then again I'm obviously sensitive because I do have similar mental and physical issues and deal with that shit without support so maybe I am projecting a bit. I still stand by the romanticization of him being this dark brooding struggling "character" being off-putting, but that's just my opinion.
This is a really fucked up thing to say that a chronically ill person needs to stop talking about how chronically disabled he is 😭😭
Duncan i’m starting your first fan account, and yes, obviously i’ll die for you
that makes two of us can I co-run the account
what i find both interesting and disturbing about Dream in particular is that he seemingly lifted a lot of his image/general Presence online from Cryaotic- his avatar is near identical, he uses the same handle (dreamwastaken - crywastaken), and fans used to interpret Cryaotic as a Conventionally Handsome White Boy With Brown Hair And A Green Hoodie (tm). I remember being a pretty big fan of Cry back in the day, but thankfully never dipped into the obsessive fandom around him- it was definitely there though, just like Dream's. of course, Cryaotic was recently outed as being a serial groomer of minors/fans. now, in some kind of ironic twist, dream seems to be going down a similar path of gross controversies (while he hasn't been outed as a groomer, the racism and ableism from him is a Very Bad Look on a similar scale I think). im not sure if theres a correlation/causation thing going on here, but i feel like it's worth keeping in mind. maybe theyre just two eerily similar instances of faceless youtubers making egregious mistakes in front of a Gigantic audience? No matter the conclusion to be made here, great video as always!!
hello! as a fan of dream i think he was asked that question and the two definitely aren't related, i don't remember the exact question but i don't think dream even knew who he was?
regardless that is an interesting point, and i hope it doesn't turn out to be similar situations. if dream ever gets outed as a groomer i will drop him immediately but from what i've seen i don't think he's ableist (ironically he's also neurodivergent so he can reclaim the r word lol but he still apologized for it) or racist, he just used to have conservative/close-minded beliefs that he's since renounced. i don't think it'll turn out to be similar situations but we'll just have to wait and see
I did NOT know Cry was exposed for that.. Yikesss used to be a huge fan of him
@@mli2883 nah the name handle is too. TOO similar for it to be a coincidence. And both dudes use an “emotion” verb as a nick? He’s definitely had influence. It’s not like he doesn’t lie abt shit, like him denying cheating on his run just to later admit to doing just that
I think you're definitely reaching here my dude
@@Paiinxi don't know how pointing out very obvious similarities between two youtubers is Reaching but okay
I follow some anonymous creators that are positive but I still can't connect with them as much as with creators whose faces I can see, even though I would say a very expressive voice helps.
I find that communicating with people by texting or typing on a computer to be easier than talking to them in real life (even with my own friends) because it's easier to think beforehand about what you're going to say and to not feel any pressure from the other person to respond automatically or give the other person their preferred response when they cannot see you visibly. This can be why their fanbases are more outspoken because they feel more comfortable doing so when both sides (the faceless youtubers and the audience) are anonymous. We often forget that there is still an actual human being behind the screen even though their face isn't seen. Also I literally guffawed when I saw that in the thumbnail of your face, you had your profile pic . . . of literally your face lmaoo. Haven't laughed this hard in a long while XD Thanks for the content!
You posted! The best time of the week!
i just discovered you a couple days ago and i've been binge watching you a lot! you talk about a lot of stuff that other youtubers i watch don't talk about and i like that a lot. so cool that i could be here so soon for a new upload!
I watch a lot of gaming yt so I'm used to faceless accounts. I guess it partially comes down to how the creator carries themself in their content? If a creator uses a lot of vulgar and adult language it sort of invites the audience to respond in a similar manner. This is definitely not an excuse for fans to openly sexualize and fantasize the creator. The fandoms you mentioned should be observed in a different perspective due to the sample size of fans being in the millions. Bad behavior should never be excused but it is sort inevitable when there are so many people involved? Idk! It's a complex topic. I'm involved in the acnh community & some of the challenges dream/corpse deal with aren't as (if at all) apparent in the channels I watch. Acnh creators are usually PG since the probability of children watching is pretty high. Idk! Interesting video and congrats on the growth of your channel!
Edit: I don't watch dream/corpse so I don't know what they speak about. The adult language stuff was meant to be a generalization for faceless creators.
you have such a calming voice
very good video! I really like how calmly you state your points. I think a lot of fans latch onto corpse and dream specifically through watching their friends content too. And I think that even if they are very private, both of them are open about some aspects. Corpse has shared his physical and mental health struggles and dream tends to share his opinions and emotions very openly. Dream's willingness to share his thoughts rashly and emotionally is the main reason he gets into controversy, but oftentimes he later calms down and changes his mind, and I think his responsiveness makes people relate to him. I think people have good criticisms of dream, inside or outside his fanbase, the difference is that outsiders don't have a reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, take his word in good faith or to believe he will change his mind because all they see is headline after headline. But people who are invested do.
I was a HUGE fan of Corpse's horror readings for years before he got really popular. I would listen to his and Mr. Nightmare's videos throughout high school during breaks. I still have a soft spot when I hear him mentioned, but I totally fell off. He just no longer makes the kind of content I'm into. I really tried to keep supporting him but my interests just don't align. I wish him the best, though, and will always be disgusted by the people who sexualize him and spend so much time trying to dig up his identity regardless of intentions. I ended up getting to know a bit about him in the time that I did keep up with him and from the looks of it he had a rough childhood and is not in contact with his family, and before he started streaming he had no friends. Like actually none, zero. So while I'll always miss his horror days, I'm happy he's found people. He did mention in the past that a few people have recognized him in public just from his voice, but he didn't really leave his house often enough for that to be a regular thing (due to social anxiety and his chronic illness), plus he was still relatively small back then. He has agoraphobia and really bad anxiety so each time this happened it only made things worse for him. I can only imagine what it must be like now since pretty much everyone who's been on the internet has heard his voice at least once. Face reveal is off the table and I 100% support his decision. I think before fame he felt like maybe one day he would do it, but after so many people hyping up his looks the expectation is so high that he would never live up to it. He talked about it on one of the his social media platforms at least once, probably more. I feel like he's been through more than his fair share of struggles and he really doesn't deserve the hateful comments. I hope he continues to do well and persue whatever makes him happy.
My dad has a deep gravely voice and corpse just reminds me of my dad and I don’t have a DDLG kink. Seeing stans lust so openly made me stop watching corpse
as a psychology major i have to say im v impressed with the way you framed your commentary around relevant concepts. i think we have barely scratched the surface when it comes to parasocial relationships and experience-taking (projection, what u illustrated in parts 3 and 4) but there r already some studies out there that link these phenomenons to social anxiety and depression, especially in teens. personally, what REALLY bugs me abt faceless creators is the power dynamics involved. their fans r 100% invested in a brand that is basically immune to accountability. just some thoughts sorry for the long comment lol. keep up the good work!!
idk what time zone y’all are in and even though this joke isn’t even funny i still giggled to myself when i saw this was uploaded at 4:20
It's 2:50 where I'm at
23:20 here, I think
I think you are correct to point out how people see these TH-camrs as extensions of themselves. In a way it is similar to how we treat characters in for example video games. The main characters that you play can often be a bit of a blank slate, so it's easier for us to play them as ourselves, or at the very least to imagine their inner thoughts are similar to ours. I understand that people may do the same to creators that they like.
That being said, I think there's a dimension that you haven't really discussed. It concerns parasocial relationships. I have seen a couple of cancelings of leftwing TH-camrs up close (e.g. Lindsay Ellis, Contrapoints, Philosophy Tube) and discussed these extensively with friends. Our conclusion is that when a parasocial relationship goes too far, people sort of forget that the creator in question is not their real actual friend. They may also project romantic feelings onto them - which I think are valid feelings, but just not useful, because you're not going to date your favourite TH-cam mom who lives on the other side of the planet.
Anyway, so when other people criticise that person, they may feel like they have to defend them. Alternatively, when the creator does something they don't like (whether that's valid or not), they can come to see that as a personal betrayal by a *friend* they thought they could trust. When Lindsay Ellis tweeted something that some people interpreted as racist, it felt to them like their beloved TH-cam friend suddenly turned out to be problematic! (In this community, there's also the dimension of downtrodden people trying to feel some sort of control by canceling people above them who are still within reach, but that's a whole other discussion.)
I think the same is happening with these faceless creators, but because viewers know less about the creators in question, there's more room for their imagination to run wild. Just like with girls thinking Noah Beck is the perfect boyfriend that they wish they had and can fantasise about actually being in a relationship with, people can now fantasise about Corpse Husband being the most attractive or coolest man on earth. Due to the nature of their content, as you've described it, they form a bond with their audience through their personalities, which in itself can engender a parasocial relationship - which I think is not necessarily bad, but they can get out of hand easily. But now that there's room for the viewer to let their imagination run rampant about this online person that they already like, they can create a perfect person in their heads. Not only someone they feel like they are genuinely connected to, but also the kindest person and someone looking however they imagine.
The result is that they can mold the creator into any image they like and get extremely strongly attached to this fake image. In this way, the parasocial relationship can easily grow even stronger and more unhealthy than with a TH-camr who has a real physical presence in their videos, and when someone attacks their "perfect" friend or crush, or when this perfect person turns out to be a mere imperfect mortal, things go to shit badly.
Tl;dr: we're all sad, lonely people online, and I just wanted to say I also miss Daredevil on Netflix.
This is why I subbed you talk not just about current events but also things people don't even think about keep it up.
I loved this video!! it really goes deep into the a theme I've been thinking about a lot. Something that I would add too, is that the fact that they are faceless enhaces the "dehumanizing" effect that Content creators already go through, for hate and love. When someone posts a rather a very "passionate" message about dream or corpse they mostly forget they r human. They either are hated as if they r the evil spawn of the devil himself, or are loved and idolatrized like a god, completely breaking any realistic expectations for them. Plus its easier to hate something u cant see, and harder to see more realistically a faceless voice. Many fans when they see a photo of him are like "wait he is actually real" and it does feel like that most of the time
A youtuber I watch, who produced very thoughtful and high-quality content, did a face reveal after a number of their videos had done super well. One of the comments was 'Oh, I thought you would be skinnier....'
With reactions like that being a reality, no wonder there are people who would rather not open themselves up to public scrutiny!
Now that I'm saying it, perhaps the fact that there has been no face reveal previously puts more emphasis on appearance than it would otherwise. Then again, maybe physical appearance can always be weaponised by people who get off on being awful to other people.
sorry for english - i don't know if my mumble gonna make sense, but hear me out
I think that this phenomena can be actually linked with books, i know this sound weird, but when you think about it, it makes sens. So when you read a book, you bond with characters while reading, yourelate to their actions, adventures, personality - you treat them in your head as real humans even you know that they aren't, you idealize them and because they're not real you can in your imagination put them wherever you want, they are perfect because they're not actually real. With faceless creators everything is similar because once again you relate to them, to their personality etc. but i think that people still don't treat them like 'real' humans. And because they don't show their faces, people just tend to treate them as someone that isn't real they see only avatar, and not the person behind it and with that watching those creators is almost like bringing your favourite book character to life - it's more intimate then with people with faces, beacuse you can actually fantasise.
And also people love mysteries so their is it.
Makes so much sense!!
LOL I am a Corpse and Dream stan that tries their best to promote positivity and inclusivity. To answer your last question, I am sure Corpse has people that are very very close to him, order food for him or he uses apps like Uber Eats that don't require him to speak to them directly. I loved this video and I hope to see more of them in the future!
I hope Corpse never does a face reveal. I’m a fan of his music and heard him talk about his anxiety and insecurity. I don’t want to be visually perceived either and I totally get it I wouldn’t want people talking about me that way
dream is actually planning a face reveal would have been cool if you added that element to the stans section :)
Yes Duncan, we know you're a Film Student.
As person in the mcyt fans community. Yeah. I'd also pepper in the fact that most of the more vocal and active parts are especialy younger people and teenagers, which often do have stronger reactions.
But as faceless youtuber enjoyer, I do get the hype about learning something new about someone who's very much a blank slate. That still doesn't give you right to harass people who dissagree with you.
I have been watching Todd in the Shadows for 11 years, and he's my absolute favorite. The appeal to me is similar to reading a book. I enjoy being able to hear his voice and imagine his facial expressions. I understand liking these "faceless" creators, but I've never blindly followed anyone I watch.
Ugh I love u so much for choosing this topic! I think about this all the fucking time. Keeps me up at night.