Hey Vince, never throw any Lithium Ion battery pack into the trash. We do not need this in a landfill! There are in Lowe’s and Home Depot recycle boxes to put your tool batteries in so they can be properly recycled by the company that each store has agreed to do it’s recycling. Please tell your viewers to use these recycle boxes so we can safely have the batteries recycled by these companies who specialize in this process. They have been doing this at both stores for a long time now so no excuses for those who regularly go to them can participate in this effort. Thanks Vince, I know you will help in this effort. We need 100% participation so we can keep these and other recycled batteries out of landfills! Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
Keep supplying the suppliers with your recycling. The next battery you buy could be the same case and internals you recycled. $$$$$$$$ But It is good practice to recycle if you can.
Or better yet, sell them on eBay or gift them to someone who likes batteries. Usually a battery pack will give up because one of the cells in it has given up; the weakest link in the chain. The other cells are still good for something and can be used for all kinds of things - DIY electric vehicles, tools, remote control stuff, UPS, everything.
I am a avid rc enthusiast and use lipo batteries frequently. One thing that can prolong batteries life is the rate at which the battery is charged. A lower amperage charger charges the battery slower but also keeps the battery cooler. The rapid charger uses higher amps to charge the battery faster and in turn degrades them faster. As nice as the rapid chargers are, they actually aid in killing the batteries faster. Great video. Good information to get out there.
True and it's common sense but people always want the latest and greatest product... these big companies are making more money selling the fast Chargers and people come back to buy batteries after their fast charger burn them up lol... large companies have a lot of trickery out there. You're going to buy anything expensive do some research on the internet before you do
@@woodywood7759 fast chargers are amazing honestly, can seriously save your butt... BUT... just don’t overuse the feature When you need it, you need it
Absolutely even with 21700 can tolerate higher heat still slower charge is the best i wonder if they are going to switch to lifo4 cells since life cycle into 2000 instead of 500
I often gripe about my milwaukee tools but the batteries are another story. The 2 original batteries that came with my first drill impacter set are still going strong after 10 years. I have a 5.0 ah battery thats 7 years still great. And now a beastly new 8.0ah battery. Awsome runtime!
Question is do you use them every single day. I use my tools every single day mine are usually done after 3 to 5 years max. Using them every single day vs using them sometimes is a very different story!
@@marcowens3522 I had the same experience as this last guy. Got a Milwaukee combo drill/impact set with 2 5.0 batteries back in 2015. I use them for work every single day. Not only that, I semi-abuse them. I use that drill as if it were a hole hog. Its been so hot from heavy use I burned my hand on it. I use my sawzall as if it were a gas powered chain saw. They are still going strong. I have never left them on a charger overnight and I always use them fully and charge them fully. I leave them in the work van in 100+ days and way below freezing nights. Dewalt batteries on the other hand I have not had good luck with. Most of the guys I work with have Milwaukee stuff. 1 guy uses Dewalt and 1 guy uses Makita. For almost all of us Milwaukee is the best.
My craftsman corded is 37 years old and used 7 days a week 365 days a year minimum of 12 hours a day. Get back with me after yours fails I’m sure mine will still be in use. I’ve 80 others in use of various ages all corded as I ain’t playing battery games in my company.
@@wrackable sounds like real mans equipment ;but its 2021 i want all battery im happy woth my dewalt set it builds me houses an foundations an iv never had a fail day from dewalt
@@Hempcretinglifestyle Indeed , if batteries float your boat so be it. Glad yours haven’t failed and truly have to be the exception as I’ve never encountered anyone else whose pulled that off. Maybe you’re the one person who properly cycles and maintains moister and temperature of your gear and somehow hasn’t exceeded the life of batteries on top of it. I’ve meet many whose batteries failed in less than a few months of regular charging. Some get a year seems to be rare of regular use to get longer than a year. 4 years is impressive , kudos my friend.
I just bought a phantom electric board and I came to this channel to learn how to take care of my lithium battery being that it does 30 miles an hour and can travel 30 miles, it was quite expensive and I don't want to f it up. The comments and information is channel were extremely helpful! Thanks 🙏
I get a lot of sideways looks when I maintain my batteries. I number my batteries next to my initials, so I know which batteries are mine. I try to catch the discharge by 2 bars on the battery, I will take it off the tool and set it next to the charger to cool before charging. I don’t care that the charger has an internal fan cooled function, that’s for cooling the battery when it gets back up to a certain temp when rapid charging. After the battery is charged I’ll set the battery aside to use the next day, while I finish the day out with a different battery. Sounds like a long complicated process but numbering the batteries helps out and I have enough batteries on the job for each tool that I just swap batteries and go back to work while the others are either cooling or charging.
I almost do the same, I keep the ones in use outside their bad (I have 2 bags of batteries). Next day i swap them and let the used ones charge. I keep inside my house (air conditioned) and almost never leave them in my car. My boss in the other hand, does the opposite. So his batteries feel like they are always on one bar (Ryobi). They don’t hold a charge anymore (my misting fan kills a 1.5 ah battery of his in 20 mins). So he uses mine and i have to be behind him like a child and maintain the batteries/remove them from places he LOVES to leave where there is a hot sun or his truck (Arizona heat)
Go Vince! Great info. I try to sell my older tools with batteries while still in decent working condition to get the newest batteries and tools just to keep up, lol.
I keep my battery operated tools in a dedicated storage. A Gott 30 qt. ice chest. I was organizing my attic and came across 7 ice chest I don't use. I was ready to throw them out and decided to use a few for storage. It works for me and keeps the tools dry and keeps them from extreme temperature changes.
Great job explaining battery maintenance. I keep my batteries indoors in a stainless steel pot with metal lid, just in case they ignite for some odd reason. You can never be too careful. I store them at 50 percent until I need to use them then I charge them to 100 percent for full power.
I'd like to add that if you have to use a fast charger, the larger, higher amp hour batteries can handle it better than the smaller low amp hour ones do. The difference is the number of cells in each battery...higher capacity battery packs have more cells that are likely physically bigger and higher capacity than the ones they put in the smaller low amp hour battery packs. The bigger cells don't get hot as fast, and the load is spread across more cells than the smaller packs do while being worked in a tool as well as when they are charged in a fast charger.
All I use is fast chargers heres why. By the time the battery degrades beyond efficient use I'd already have saved money by having these batteries charge fast and always ready when I need it. That being said I know batteries are expensive but so is my time. I've been using the same 4 battery packs for quite some time now and have not had an issue YET. When that time does come I'd probably upgrade to some better batteries anyway.
I think the 🔋 getting 🔥 causes as much damage as if you charge them with high current, I'm not here to say one is worse than the other but neither one is good. If possible try to charge your batteries in a room that is around 80° & let them cool off to room temperature (or cooled down) before charging by the time they're done they should not have much heat. I use a Makita setup & the charger has a fan that blows inside the battery as it's charging. Just like anything in life, you take care of your tools, your tools will take care of you.. I'm sure that applies to your 🚗💨 your wife, your 🐕🐕 even your own damn body for that matter 😂
I've been using Lithium batteries for many years now in the Radio Control hobby... this information has been known for a long time. Thanks for getting it out there. The worst thing you can do is store a lithium battery fully charged. That will kill them quicker than anything other than a deep discharge. What the tool manufacturers need to do is implement a "Storage" mode into their chargers. In this mode, the charger would check the state of charge, and either charge or discharge, as required, to the 50% state of charge. We have had this feature on the hobby chargers now for many many years, it should be implemented into the tool chargers. THE TIME IS NOW!!
Great video! Somehow, my M18 2.0 ah batteries that came with my 1/2 inch drill/driver, that I bought 14 years ago are still working. I have no idea how or why they are, but I am certainly impressed with these two batteries. Yes, they don’t last as long, but still work.
Vince: "wouldn't it be great if manufacturers built into the battery software that told it to never discharge below 20%." Manufacturers: but... our profit from battery sales would plummet!!!
The bottom is less important and then they would have to call them you know like 1.6Ah instead of a 2.0Ah but a better solution would be a charger that doesn't automatically fully charge them only charge to like 85-90% and have a button if you thought you would need all the power to fully charge them to 100%
If the manufacturer only let you use the battery between 20% & 80%, then you'd only get about 60 minutes use from a tool you'd normally get 100 minutes with full battery use. That would look pretty bad next to another brand that gives 100 minutes of use with equivalent battery and tool.
I just had to pull a warranty from Milwaukee for 4 8ah HO and 2 12ah HO that are 3 months old. I’m not using the rapid charger any longer and purchased the 6 bay sequential charger to get more battery life. On the bright side the Milwaukee rep did state the company will gladly warranty all batteries for 5 years as many times as necessary.
The Chevy Volt has software that doesn't charge the battery to one hundred percent, nor does it discharge below twenty percent. The batteries on the Volt are also actively temperature controlled. Our Volt is over eight years old and has of yet not shown any signs of degradation. I have a Worx string trimmer that I bought in 09 and am still using the original battery to trim and edge my half acre lawn twice a week, with again no sign of degradation. I bought an electric touring bicycle in 2010 and have put on fifteenth thousand on the original battery packs and have only seen about three percent loss of capacity. I did change the low voltage shut down on the bikes motor control to not discharge the battery all the way and purchased an expensive programmable charger to keep from charging the battery all the way up. When I built the battery packs I included a pocket where I can insert a plastic sandwich bag full of ice to keep the battery pack cool on hot days or when working the bike on very hilly terrain. I only store all my Lithium batteries in a cool place in the winter and with only eighty percent charge. Also the three to five hundred cycle life refers to "full" cycles. If you use only the sweet spot of the batteries, they will last multiples of that.
For most lithium ion cells after 300 charging cycles still maintain 70-80% of their capacity with zero noticeable effect on performance and you can run them through several hundred more cycles before the degradation becomes an annoyance .
Best I can probably hope to do is not store my batteries in my hot car this summer. As for not discharging completely or not fully charging I don't have the time and energy to micro manage my batteries like that. I agree that software should be built into these hyper expensive tools
All very good advise. Excellent video !!!!! As a side note. German Metabo CAS batteries are a minimum of 900 charges and many of my older batteries I am sure have way more uses than that. Metabo also offers a great warrent with there batteries. I have many years of experience using Metabo.
How to increase the life of Li-Mn batteries. Don't deep discharge them and keep them cool when charging. Makita is best for this with fan cooling and limiting discharge to 12.5V with the 18V batteries or 2.5 volts per cell. You can also limit their charge on the top end as for some medical and mil-spec batteries don't fully charge them. You can change chemistry to LiFePO4 which will give 1000 to 3000 cycles as DeWalt did back in 2006 with the A123 System M1 cells. I still have one of those packs in use after 15 years and well over 1,000 charge/discharge cycles. The packs I want next are Tesla 4680 NMC 9Ah cells at 3,000 to 5,000 cycles or more. Tesla has far more demand for those cells than they can make but maybe in a few years... 9Ah Tesla packs with only 5 cells in each could last for many, many years. I'm sure someone will want to jump on that if/when the Tesla cells become available. I'm sure Hilti would love to get their mitts on those 9Ah NMC 4680 cells...we shall see.
The "CPR" for Li-ion batts he's referring to includes using a 9V battery to put a small charge on your fully dead battery for a few seconds, pulsing it for 10-20x, then throw it back on the charger and see if it will accept it (without error flashing). Worked for me plenty of times on 18650's I had laying around.
What do you mean, "pulsing it for 10-20x"? Are you talking about connecting the 9v battery to the Milwaukee battery on-and-off rapidly 10-20x, or putting that battery you just "jumped" with a 9v onto the charger on-and-off quickly 10-20x? Or, are you talking about putting that "jumped" battery on a tool and quickly hitting the trigger 10-20x?
@@thebordernow 9V to Li-ion, + to + and - to - for 2 sec on, 2 sec off. Repeat. The goal is not to over-stress the 9V to the point of damage while doing so.
Very interesting and good to know. Convenience will cost a lot of money in the long run. Just wonder how long battery operated cars will run...before they have to be replaced....
Hello again Vcg and Vince Thank you once again for information I did not know. Is there a trickle charger other than the charger? To maintain a charge level? Again thank you
Yo Vince! Yeah, lithium ion batteries are much like us humans. We struggle more in extreme low and high temperatures. We and they (batteries) like a "Goldilocks" perfect and comfortable environment. Thank you and God bless! 😁👍✌️
I have Milwaukee and DeWalt batteries M18, 20V that I have been using since April 2016 and they are still going strong and are used 6 days a week.. I don’t leave them in the cold or heat and charge only when need be. I store them in a DeWalt 2.0 tote with vent
Millwaukee card less drill came with two batteries 12 years ago still going strong, I mix joint compound with it every day,when the batteries are dead I charge them over night, a battery will last 3 / 5 days on a charge running it all day.
I agree. I have two 2013 built 1.3ah DeWalt batteries that came with my DeWalt DCD771. I have rotated them everytime I use them, leaving one battery on the charger all the time. When I need the drill, I grab the battery not on the charger and use it. After use, the used battery goes on the charger and the battery on the charger becomes the one I will use next. I now have seven DeWalt batteries and I will rotate them in the same fashion on my five DeWalt tools.
Thanks !! If I dropped a 6 xc high output battery-(Milwaukee) about 3 and 1/2 feet onto a thick carpet.....would I maybe have caused damage ? It seems OK...
Hi Vince another great informative video so what company offer this feature that it won't dip below 20% or charge past 80% and which voltage too 12 v 18v 24v 40v 60v etc thanks in advance
I have those dewalts since they came off and im sure that im over 500 cycles,but i always tryng to keep them charged and i use the fast charger and as soon as they fully charged i remove the battery so dont over charge,i dont inow if im right but i think that a battery fails when you pet it all day in the charger,i bpught my first flex volt 60v 2 years ago and still holds the charge very good
Idk man my old job I worked for 2 years (construction) it was a 6 man crew with a utility truck and we kept all our tools/power tools in the utility boxes on the side of the truck YEAR ROUND! The Milwaukee drills would be stored in the boxes every night summer winter spring fall and this was in Houston Tx!! 110 degree summers in a Steel lock box! Or 35 degree winters, and not to go against the grain, but man we used them things almost every single day, not saying this isn’t true and I will try to upkeep my own out of pocket tools better but just speaking from my experience, I was never under the impression temperature had an affect on a drill battery, so I guess this video is basically a shocker and eye opener
I'm a milwaukee guy. But we have had a rigid impact, drill and Sawzall for 7 years. We've used them as hammers. Really beat the shit outta them. They still charge and work perfectly. It's crazy.
Fortunately I have a Milwaukee Authorized shop with 30 minutes driving distance, as I have had to exchange several battery packs, including the 12 AH monster (all still under warranty). Thanks for the tips.
I fix batteries locally, yes heat in the truck melt those cells and caused them to leak i revived most of them and balance them is the key, internal resistance gives you an idea if the batteries done or any life left Milwaukee has a protection to prevent cells being charged if one of bank cells dropped below certain point, some of the earlier model has bad bms board, especially those 5Ah. The newer 21700 has a stronger protection. Some spot welder end points became loose also cause bms to disconnect batteries from charging.
Bought my first Milwaukee drill several years ago - around 2013 I think. Came with two 2.0 amp hour batteries. I only used the one battery and never even messed with the second one. Fast forward a few years later and I learned a lesson that they wouldn't charge. I was able to re-use one of the 2 batteries through jump starting it with a good battery (ended up buying a 3rd battery to be my only working one) but now it won't charge again. Now that I have more batteries that work and more tools, I leave the tools in the garage and the batteries inside the house...
The other day I had a problem with my Dewalt battery DCB207 I brought it to my buddies house to do some work. I checked it. It was at 20 V when I left, but now I put on the charger for the fast charger and the charger. Both of them said charged when I measured it with a meter it was 16 V . I put it on myXR DCD791 it doesn’t work but when I put it on the 885 impact it works
I thought Milwaukee batteries do that that's why they're do expensive, I know they communicate with the device you're using with so the device won't over heat and the battery stops it from burning I know that's a fact, But Milwaukee batteries also take care of them self, first lighted bar is at 15% and the 4th bar is at 85%, I'm going to call Milwaukee to confirm this...
VCG CONSTRUCTION VINCE. Awesome hand-eye coordination. Throwing the battery in one hand to the other. But here's the thing, you weren't even looking. 😲 Thanks for the tips & I like your idea's bro ✌🏾🔥🤙🏾🌏💚's
Rules for any lithium ion batteries: 1. Charge up to 80% and discharge to 20% (most damage comes from this). 90/20 also works 2. Never fast charge, the slower the current the better. Also the less charge cycles the better which is obvious. 3. Store in the basement or cool environment no longer than a year or so before charging back up.
So let's say I work in Arizona where outside temperatures are 100 plus degrees and my truck gets even hotter . But I do use my batteries every day . Would it be good to store in cooler with ice pack every day ?
I was always told when using a battery you're running out of charge try to fully drain the battery because you're draining all the batteries inside. Then when you recharge the battery you're charging every battery inside to give it a better charge for that reason. Sometimes if I'm low on a charge I will hook it up to my leaf blower and drain it completely. Have a good day brother ttyl just been working on the new house getting it ready. 😎👊🇺🇸
For old nicad batteries this was true, however with more modern lithium ions if they fall below a certain voltage the chargers will no longer charge them, so dont do this
So let's say I work in Arizona where outside temperatures are 100 plus degrees and my truck gets even hotter . But I do use my batteries every day . Would it be good to store in cooler with ice pack every day ?
@vcg construction Vince great video I work for batteries plus and anyone with bad or died lithium batteries can bring them to a local batteries plus and have them recycled. Also this is true about lithium cells like cell phones have lithium batteries if you have ever had your cell phone in direct heat it will say over heat battery needs to cool down or if you leave your phone in the very cold in your car then you need to bring it in and let it get warm. Lithium cells that are together have that issue while lithium aa/aaa batteries don’t because that is a different chemistry of lithium as tool batteries and cell batteries use lithium ion.
the BMS prevents the battery from charging when below a certain voltage level ,it doesn't nessasarily mean the cells are toast, if you can bring it above the voltage threshold for charging it will begin most likely to take a charge again.
This is where manufacturers make money so it’s in their interest to not tell consumers or build safety measures to extend battery life since this is the sale they will keep making once you buy into a battery platform just IMO thanks Vince for the quality content!!🤙🏽🤙🏽
Vince - I have a portable Noco GB70 battery jump starter. As you know, it was brutally cold here in Philly. It says this can be stored in temp of -4F? Wouldn't that be too cold since they are lithium batteries? Go Eagles! Thanks!
Hi Guys!!! Sounds like the battery business is a great cash cow! LOL! Have an awesome weekend everybody!!! God bless you all! And, God Bless America! We sure do need it right now! :-)
All good advice and so true, and the same can be implemented for a cell phone....(especially those super quick rapid 20-30 min charges to 100%. Thats gotta be brutal on the battery when done over and over, imo. It’s why I charge my phone at normal rate, as only takes 33 mins longer....usually, and never let phone go below 20-15%. Just my imo). But back to tool batteries. Would be nice if the batteries didn’t degrade, and maybe someday a brand will solve this “issue”. Till then, we got some great tips from Vince to help keep batteries at optimal state and to save money by not having to buy more batteries😉👍🏻👍🏻
Woah, wait a minute! 300-500!? Today's li-ion batteries far exceed the cycles you mentioned. Those numbers are either from really old polymer, LCO batteries or lab test of full discharge. "Cycle life" is used to indicate the number of charge-discharge cycles a battery can withstand until it reaches 70-80% remaining capacity. It still delivers all the power but for 20-30% less time. Most commonly used tools and vehicles batteries: NCA battery is usually have 800-1000 FULL (0% to 100% to 0%) discharge cycles. NMC - 1000-2000 FULL discharge cycles. LFP - 3000-7000 FULL discharge cycles. The battery management system (BMS) almost always limits the batteries voltage to nominal 3.6-3.7V but it's "100% charge" is 4.0-4.2V. Also puts a bottom (cut-off) buffer as it's never remanded to over-discharge the battery. The absolute bottom is 2.5V (2.0V for LFP) but the cut-off is 3.0V (2.5V for LFP). So you are never using 1 complete discharge cycle under normal operation of a battery pack. You're most likely to double the rated discharge cycles and still have a 70-80% capacity left in the battery. - Heat and over-discharging is the main enemy of battery life. It's never recommended to use a li-ion battery over 80 degrees C. And never charge a cold battery under 0 degrees C (the charger wont let you either way). - Leaving the battery on a charger (after it reaches 100%) for long periods of time (overnight or for a few day) as it can lead to higher temperature or even thermal runaway. - When in storage for a long time, store batteries in a relatively cold place and with 60-90% charge. - Dropping the battery can brake a solder, fuse, connection or puncture the battery. Power tool batteries are usually pretty robust. - Fast charging over 1C will slightly shorten the battery life. (1C is a charge rate that represents the power needed to do a full charge in 1 hour.) Most batteries can safely withstand 1.5 to 3C. - Thermal runaway can happen at temperatures above 200 degrees C (210-250 degrees C). - A quality battery pack can outlive the tool (or vehicle) of you take into consideration the above-mentioned safety advises.
Great video Vince! I dedicated a couple of canvas tool bags for bringing my batteries in and out of my truck/trailer. It might sound like a pain to remove the batteries off the tools but it’s not bad. I got used to it. Great tips. Well done, hope you had an awesome weekend! 👍🏻
Agreed. I do exactly the same thing. Northern MN is a bitch on power tools. If you aren’t freezing to death, you’re drowning in humidity. In the spring, we can get both in the same day.
I have boxes with tools in them that stay in my car, and I have a box full of batteries that stays in the closet next to the front door. I grab what I might need for the day plus one or two extra and I'm good to go. In the north east summers are hot and very humid, and winters are below freezing consistently.
Okay, I get the part from 9:22 - 10:22 in the video about not running and discharging the battery below the 20% level, but why the prohibition about charging it to 100%?
Number of cycles is the same regardless of voltage. Each lithium ion cell is roughly 3.7v, manufacturers connect cells in series to provide the voltage each tool needs. Higher voltage= more of the same cells in series.
The charging to 80 and not letting it discharge below 20 could be programmed on the bms- battery management system. But some company's don't give a f and want you to buy batteries more often
If you have older packs that you've run often for several years and have a few hundred cycles on them, you can prolong them by not draining them until cutoff. Instead, swap them out when they get to 1 bar and you can keep pushing away that green/blue/orange/yellow/red blink of death.
Got some 6.0ah metabo HPT batteries with 2016 dates on them. They charged just fine. Those batteries dont have fuel gages and the metabo tools didnt show fuel meter for them so they must of been dead. They took 3 hours to charge but have been working great
I think the the EGO batteries are the only batteries that have the maintenance charge feature on them and self discharges in storage. EGO batteries won’t keep a charge after 30 days. It’s built like that so they last longer. I can’t wait till the power tool companies include intelligence into the charging process. I wonder if EGO has a patent?
Electronic engineer, FCC certified. Great comments from you. There is other important things to know also. Ex. Under load, only and nearly 10 per cent difference between a charged and uncharged nicad. Ex. Triple A nicad that deviation is 1 1 discharged vs 1.2 charged
The individual batteries inside your tools battery are probably “protected batteries” with a circuit in them. When they get to low, the protection circuit locks it out and won’t allow it to recharge. They have trickle type chargers that will ping the battery repeatedly with a charge until it can slowly overcome the protection circuits cutoff level. I had a pair of dead rechargeable CR123 batteries that I brought back to life.
Anyone have any trouble with their M18-12.0 battery failing prematurely? I bought it with the table saw in mid 2019, but have barely used it due to life reasons. Admittedly, it sat in my truck in CT the entire time, but every other battery, including the fake ones, still hold their charges more than adequately. Anyone have trouble with their 7 1/4 inch miter saw stuttering every single time I try to make a cut, regardless of the freshness of the battery and the amp/hour caliber? A fresh, year old 9.0 battery does it as much as a 1.5 battery. I blow it off every day, throughout the day and the contacts appear to be spotless. It's done this since day one, but now I can't even use it and I'm using my ten inch Milwaukee that came with the horrible stand. I'm pretty sure that I bought both of these through Home Depot, for what it's worth. Thanks
@@Borescoped last week when i.did TTR i brought in a ridgid octane battery that was in my truck since november....i had it in vermont a few days where it was -10 out and it still had 4 bars on it....its possible it lost some life cycles after being in my truck all winter...lol
As someone who uses battery powered drills and impacts for home use, should I charge the every couple of months even if I haven't used the tools for the past 6 to 12 months.
A lot of factors to consider I’d say. How low is the charge after that duration. If you use it that infrequently, would you rather risk undervoltage or lose a few cycles? How much do those batteries cost? How long do you expect them to last you if you do recharge them to full if you let them bleed of charge by sitting? Too many variables IMO for me to give you advice on that. I will, however, tell you what I would do if I were in your situation. I’d probably just go ahead and charge them, I’d rather lose a few cycles that have them go below threshold for bringing them back, but that’s just me. Take some of those questions I listed and make your own evaluation to come to what works for you IMO. Good luck!
My uncle left a Milwaukee battery in my gutter. I found it over a year and a half later. It had been thru cold, hot, humid, snow, rain and it still worked lol
Below freezing doesn't permanently damage the batteries from the research I've gathered, unless it's extremely cold like -20F. It's only a temporary capacity reduction. Which is suppose indirectly translates to lower life span as you will be charging/discharging more often when it's below freezing. And yes Vince, I agree 100%, all electronics manufacturers including tools and phones, should be implementing a 20% buffer on each side, with the ability to override this if you need the extra capacity. Would really help improve lifespan of devices and keep this e-waste out of the landfill. Just wanted to edit: keeping li-ion batteries between 20-80% can increase the charge cycles to well over 1000, even close to 2000 in the papers I've read, that's a massive difference!
I've had to CPR my 2Ahr Ryobi batteries. I know someone who had to warranty a M18 battery fresh out of the kit. I live in a tropical climate. Whatever the temperature the room is; it's always room temperature.
Thanks for the good info. You guys are in Philly right? Me and a buddy bought a couple tree service bucket trucks at an auction a few years ago in Philadelphia and drove them back here to Vancouver island in British Columbia,3000 miles,was a fun couple days in Philly. Saw the bell,had a philly steak sandwich and went to the Rocky stairs at the museum. 😎
So, is the charger I got with my Milwaukee 1/2" hammer drill kit about 5 years ago a standard charger or a rapid charger? That is the question. And the flip side of using a slower standard charger: you need more batteries to keep working while the "dead" battery takes twice as long to charge.
Holds up FLEX battery while talking about built-in controls. I wonder if Vince is hinting at something with this new line of tools. Excited about tomorrow!
Interior of vehicles can reach over 150°F (65°C+) in the summer heat. Definitely not wise to leave these packs above 60°c, ever. 45-50°c is a more general limit.
The very basic chargers that come with tool batteries make it hard to care for batteries. With no selectable charge rate, the charger always charges at its max capability. There is also no way to set the charger to charge to less than 100% if you wish to put the battery to a 40-60% storage charge.
I had a Milwaukee V28 system of tools and the batteries would die on me when I left them in the truck over night. The dealer would replace the battery without question. I went through several batties before I got sick of returning them. They would not believe me when I told them about the cold, they would just replace, dumb.
When my battery goes bad it's time to get new one. I use all my batteries till they're completely discharge and I charge till is full. Anyway for me batteries less over a year what it means is that this little pack made definitely enough money to be replaced.
agree wholeheartedly. i'm in the uk too and we don't get anything half as good as the guys stateside. i'm looking at getting a router, jigsaw and a multi tool. it's gonna cost me a fortune
Don't get me wrong there's nothing like the convenience of a battery powered device especially the screw gun but for the most part I do not mind picking up a three-prong Court walking up to an orifice and sticking that into that spot it does not take me all that long it is not that much of an inconvenience to have a wire attached to it and the fact that I have peak power and performance at the flick of a switch I think is worth all the inconvenience of sticking that power cord into a hole and having to wind up a power line I know it really makes life difficult for some but I guess I'm used to it
I believe there are laws prohibiting manufacturers to advertise one level and be lower than advertised. Maybe by a small percentage, but they can’t just tell you it’s at one level and sell at lower level. Similar to slack fill laws for food.
Hey Vince, never throw any Lithium Ion battery pack into the trash. We do not need this in a landfill! There are in Lowe’s and Home Depot recycle boxes to put your tool batteries in so they can be properly recycled by the company that each store has agreed to do it’s recycling. Please tell your viewers to use these recycle boxes so we can safely have the batteries recycled by these companies who specialize in this process. They have been doing this at both stores for a long time now so no excuses for those who regularly go to them can participate in this effort. Thanks Vince, I know you will help in this effort. We need 100% participation so we can keep these and other recycled batteries out of landfills! Stay safe mates!😊👍🏻😷
Keep supplying the suppliers with your recycling. The next battery you buy could be the same case and internals you recycled. $$$$$$$$
But It is good practice to recycle if you can.
@Womb Raider can’t imagine how uneducated you must be to think what he is saying is “crusading”
@@derrick9605 tell that to the car people
@Womb Raider gotta make the world better for the people that come after us, maiden.
Or better yet, sell them on eBay or gift them to someone who likes batteries. Usually a battery pack will give up because one of the cells in it has given up; the weakest link in the chain. The other cells are still good for something and can be used for all kinds of things - DIY electric vehicles, tools, remote control stuff, UPS, everything.
I am a avid rc enthusiast and use lipo batteries frequently. One thing that can prolong batteries life is the rate at which the battery is charged. A lower amperage charger charges the battery slower but also keeps the battery cooler. The rapid charger uses higher amps to charge the battery faster and in turn degrades them faster. As nice as the rapid chargers are, they actually aid in killing the batteries faster. Great video. Good information to get out there.
Same goes for phone batteries. If a 5V 1A charger has your phone full by the time you next need it, it's all you need.
Trickle charge is always better. Fast charging will definitely cook a battery if done many times
True and it's common sense but people always want the latest and greatest product... these big companies are making more money selling the fast Chargers and people come back to buy batteries after their fast charger burn them up lol... large companies have a lot of trickery out there. You're going to buy anything expensive do some research on the internet before you do
@@woodywood7759 fast chargers are amazing honestly, can seriously save your butt... BUT... just don’t overuse the feature
When you need it, you need it
Absolutely
even with 21700 can tolerate higher heat still slower charge is the best
i wonder if they are going to switch to lifo4 cells since life cycle into 2000 instead of 500
I often gripe about my milwaukee tools but the batteries are another story. The 2 original batteries that came with my first drill impacter set are still going strong after 10 years. I have a 5.0 ah battery thats 7 years still great. And now a beastly new 8.0ah battery. Awsome runtime!
Question is do you use them every single day. I use my tools every single day mine are usually done after 3 to 5 years max. Using them every single day vs using them sometimes is a very different story!
@@marcowens3522 I had the same experience as this last guy. Got a Milwaukee combo drill/impact set with 2 5.0 batteries back in 2015. I use them for work every single day. Not only that, I semi-abuse them. I use that drill as if it were a hole hog. Its been so hot from heavy use I burned my hand on it. I use my sawzall as if it were a gas powered chain saw. They are still going strong. I have never left them on a charger overnight and I always use them fully and charge them fully. I leave them in the work van in 100+ days and way below freezing nights.
Dewalt batteries on the other hand I have not had good luck with. Most of the guys I work with have Milwaukee stuff. 1 guy uses Dewalt and 1 guy uses Makita. For almost all of us Milwaukee is the best.
My dewalts are over 4 years used 5-6 days a week still going strong..... i tuck them into bed at night 😉
You tell them they are still beautiful?
My craftsman corded is 37 years old and used 7 days a week 365 days a year minimum of 12 hours a day. Get back with me after yours fails I’m sure mine will still be in use. I’ve 80 others in use of various ages all corded as I ain’t playing battery games in my company.
@@wrackable sounds like real mans equipment ;but its 2021 i want all battery im happy woth my dewalt set it builds me houses an foundations an iv never had a fail day from dewalt
@@wrackable but i must give your gear AAA for 37years commendation
@@Hempcretinglifestyle Indeed , if batteries float your boat so be it. Glad yours haven’t failed and truly have to be the exception as I’ve never encountered anyone else whose pulled that off. Maybe you’re the one person who properly cycles and maintains moister and temperature of your gear and somehow hasn’t exceeded the life of batteries on top of it.
I’ve meet many whose batteries failed in less than a few months of regular charging. Some get a year seems to be rare of regular use to get longer than a year. 4 years is impressive , kudos my friend.
I just bought a phantom electric board and I came to this channel to learn how to take care of my lithium battery being that it does 30 miles an hour and can travel 30 miles, it was quite expensive and I don't want to f it up.
The comments and information is channel were extremely helpful!
Thanks 🙏
I get a lot of sideways looks when I maintain my batteries. I number my batteries next to my initials, so I know which batteries are mine. I try to catch the discharge by 2 bars on the battery, I will take it off the tool and set it next to the charger to cool before charging. I don’t care that the charger has an internal fan cooled function, that’s for cooling the battery when it gets back up to a certain temp when rapid charging. After the battery is charged I’ll set the battery aside to use the next day, while I finish the day out with a different battery. Sounds like a long complicated process but numbering the batteries helps out and I have enough batteries on the job for each tool that I just swap batteries and go back to work while the others are either cooling or charging.
I almost do the same, I keep the ones in use outside their bad (I have 2 bags of batteries). Next day i swap them and let the used ones charge. I keep inside my house (air conditioned) and almost never leave them in my car. My boss in the other hand, does the opposite. So his batteries feel like they are always on one bar (Ryobi). They don’t hold a charge anymore (my misting fan kills a 1.5 ah battery of his in 20 mins). So he uses mine and i have to be behind him like a child and maintain the batteries/remove them from places he LOVES to leave where there is a hot sun or his truck (Arizona heat)
Go Vince!
Great info.
I try to sell my older tools with batteries while still in decent working condition to get the newest batteries and tools just to keep up, lol.
I keep my battery operated tools in a dedicated storage. A Gott 30 qt. ice chest. I was organizing my attic and came across 7 ice chest I don't use. I was ready to throw them out and decided to use a few for storage. It works for me and keeps the tools dry and keeps them from extreme temperature changes.
good to store paint in as well
Great job explaining battery maintenance. I keep my batteries indoors in a stainless steel pot with metal lid, just in case they ignite for some odd reason. You can never be too careful. I store them at 50 percent until I need to use them then I charge them to 100 percent for full power.
If possible, avoid using fast chargers. Charging at higher amp rates will also contribute to faster battery degradation.
I'd like to add that if you have to use a fast charger, the larger, higher amp hour batteries can handle it better than the smaller low amp hour ones do. The difference is the number of cells in each battery...higher capacity battery packs have more cells that are likely physically bigger and higher capacity than the ones they put in the smaller low amp hour battery packs. The bigger cells don't get hot as fast, and the load is spread across more cells than the smaller packs do while being worked in a tool as well as when they are charged in a fast charger.
All I use is fast chargers heres why. By the time the battery degrades beyond efficient use I'd already have saved money by having these batteries charge fast and always ready when I need it. That being said I know batteries are expensive but so is my time. I've been using the same 4 battery packs for quite some time now and have not had an issue YET. When that time does come I'd probably upgrade to some better batteries anyway.
I think the 🔋 getting 🔥 causes as much damage as if you charge them with high current, I'm not here to say one is worse than the other but neither one is good. If possible try to charge your batteries in a room that is around 80° & let them cool off to room temperature (or cooled down) before charging by the time they're done they should not have much heat. I use a Makita setup & the charger has a fan that blows inside the battery as it's charging. Just like anything in life, you take care of your tools, your tools will take care of you.. I'm sure that applies to your 🚗💨 your wife, your 🐕🐕 even your own damn body for that matter 😂
@@honda116969 After letting my battery cool down, and then charge it with an external fan blowing on the charging unit. It's cheap insurance.
I've been using Lithium batteries for many years now in the Radio Control hobby... this information has been known for a long time. Thanks for getting it out there.
The worst thing you can do is store a lithium battery fully charged. That will kill them quicker than anything other than a deep discharge.
What the tool manufacturers need to do is implement a "Storage" mode into their chargers. In this mode, the charger would check the state of charge, and either charge or discharge, as required, to the 50% state of charge.
We have had this feature on the hobby chargers now for many many years, it should be implemented into the tool chargers. THE TIME IS NOW!!
Great video! Somehow, my M18 2.0 ah batteries that came with my 1/2 inch drill/driver, that I bought 14 years ago are still working. I have no idea how or why they are, but I am certainly impressed with these two batteries. Yes, they don’t last as long, but still work.
Vince: "wouldn't it be great if manufacturers built into the battery software that told it to never discharge below 20%."
Manufacturers: but... our profit from battery sales would plummet!!!
Ohh ......
just add a switch button on the battery. performance or longevity
The bottom is less important and then they would have to call them you know like 1.6Ah instead of a 2.0Ah but a better solution would be a charger that doesn't automatically fully charge them only charge to like 85-90% and have a button if you thought you would need all the power to fully charge them to 100%
If the manufacturer only let you use the battery between 20% & 80%, then you'd only get about 60 minutes use from a tool you'd normally get 100 minutes with full battery use. That would look pretty bad next to another brand that gives 100 minutes of use with equivalent battery and tool.
They dont have a BMS? BMS should cut off at 2.5volts.
I just had to pull a warranty from Milwaukee for 4 8ah HO and 2 12ah HO that are 3 months old. I’m not using the rapid charger any longer and purchased the 6 bay sequential charger to get more battery life. On the bright side the Milwaukee rep did state the company will gladly warranty all batteries for 5 years as many times as necessary.
The Chevy Volt has software that doesn't charge the battery to one hundred percent, nor does it discharge below twenty percent. The batteries on the Volt are also actively temperature controlled. Our Volt is over eight years old and has of yet not shown any signs of degradation. I have a Worx string trimmer that I bought in 09 and am still using the original battery to trim and edge my half acre lawn twice a week, with again no sign of degradation. I bought an electric touring bicycle in 2010 and have put on fifteenth thousand on the original battery packs and have only seen about three percent loss of capacity. I did change the low voltage shut down on the bikes motor control to not discharge the battery all the way and purchased an expensive programmable charger to keep from charging the battery all the way up. When I built the battery packs I included a pocket where I can insert a plastic sandwich bag full of ice to keep the battery pack cool on hot days or when working the bike on very hilly terrain. I only store all my Lithium batteries in a cool place in the winter and with only eighty percent charge. Also the three to five hundred cycle life refers to "full" cycles. If you use only the sweet spot of the batteries, they will last multiples of that.
For most lithium ion cells after 300 charging cycles still maintain 70-80% of their capacity with zero noticeable effect on performance and you can run them through several hundred more cycles before
the degradation becomes an annoyance .
Thanks my dude, Vince and the team always putting in the work
Best I can probably hope to do is not store my batteries in my hot car this summer. As for not discharging completely or not fully charging I don't have the time and energy to micro manage my batteries like that. I agree that software should be built into these hyper expensive tools
All very good advise. Excellent video !!!!!
As a side note. German Metabo CAS batteries are a minimum of 900 charges and many of my older batteries I am sure have way more uses than that. Metabo also offers a great warrent with there batteries. I have many years of experience using Metabo.
How to increase the life of Li-Mn batteries. Don't deep discharge them and keep them cool when charging. Makita is best for this with fan cooling and limiting discharge to 12.5V with the 18V batteries or 2.5 volts per cell. You can also limit their charge on the top end as for some medical and mil-spec batteries don't fully charge them. You can change chemistry to LiFePO4 which will give 1000 to 3000 cycles as DeWalt did back in 2006 with the A123 System M1 cells. I still have one of those packs in use after 15 years and well over 1,000 charge/discharge cycles. The packs I want next are Tesla 4680 NMC 9Ah cells at 3,000 to 5,000 cycles or more. Tesla has far more demand for those cells than they can make but maybe in a few years... 9Ah Tesla packs with only 5 cells in each could last for many, many years. I'm sure someone will want to jump on that if/when the Tesla cells become available. I'm sure Hilti would love to get their mitts on those 9Ah NMC 4680 cells...we shall see.
The "CPR" for Li-ion batts he's referring to includes using a 9V battery to put a small charge on your fully dead battery for a few seconds, pulsing it for 10-20x, then throw it back on the charger and see if it will accept it (without error flashing). Worked for me plenty of times on 18650's I had laying around.
What do you mean, "pulsing it for 10-20x"? Are you talking about connecting the 9v battery to the Milwaukee battery on-and-off rapidly 10-20x, or putting that battery you just "jumped" with a 9v onto the charger on-and-off quickly 10-20x?
Or, are you talking about putting that "jumped" battery on a tool and quickly hitting the trigger 10-20x?
@@thebordernow 9V to Li-ion, + to + and - to - for 2 sec on, 2 sec off. Repeat. The goal is not to over-stress the 9V to the point of damage while doing so.
Very interesting and good to know. Convenience will cost a lot of money in the long run. Just wonder how long battery operated cars will run...before they have to be replaced....
Hello again Vcg and Vince
Thank you once again for information I did not know. Is there a trickle charger other than the charger? To maintain a charge level? Again thank you
Yo Vince! Yeah, lithium ion batteries are much like us humans. We struggle more in extreme low and high temperatures. We and they (batteries) like a "Goldilocks" perfect and comfortable environment. Thank you and God bless! 😁👍✌️
I have Milwaukee and DeWalt batteries M18, 20V that I have been using since April 2016 and they are still going strong and are used 6 days a week.. I don’t leave them in the cold or heat and charge only when need be. I store them in a DeWalt 2.0 tote with vent
Millwaukee card less drill came with two batteries 12 years ago still going strong, I mix joint compound with it every day,when the batteries are dead I charge them over night, a battery will last 3 / 5 days on a charge running it all day.
I agree. I have two 2013 built 1.3ah DeWalt batteries that came with my DeWalt DCD771. I have rotated them everytime I use them, leaving one battery on the charger all the time. When I need the drill, I grab the battery not on the charger and use it. After use, the used battery goes on the charger and the battery on the charger becomes the one I will use next. I now have seven DeWalt batteries and I will rotate them in the same fashion on my five DeWalt tools.
Hi vince nice information also do you think fast charger like dewalt 12amp and milwaukee supercharger 13.5 amp damaged the batterie thank you !!
Thank you Vince. This was very informative. I really appreciate you and your channel.
Thanks !! If I dropped a 6 xc high output battery-(Milwaukee) about 3 and 1/2 feet onto a thick carpet.....would I maybe have caused damage ? It seems OK...
Hi Vince another great informative video so what company offer this feature that it won't dip below 20% or charge past 80% and which voltage too 12 v 18v 24v 40v 60v etc thanks in advance
I have those dewalts since they came off and im sure that im over 500 cycles,but i always tryng to keep them charged and i use the fast charger and as soon as they fully charged i remove the battery so dont over charge,i dont inow if im right but i think that a battery fails when you pet it all day in the charger,i bpught my first flex volt 60v 2 years ago and still holds the charge very good
Idk man my old job I worked for 2 years (construction) it was a 6 man crew with a utility truck and we kept all our tools/power tools in the utility boxes on the side of the truck YEAR ROUND! The Milwaukee drills would be stored in the boxes every night summer winter spring fall and this was in Houston Tx!! 110 degree summers in a Steel lock box! Or 35 degree winters, and not to go against the grain, but man we used them things almost every single day, not saying this isn’t true and I will try to upkeep my own out of pocket tools better but just speaking from my experience, I was never under the impression temperature had an affect on a drill battery, so I guess this video is basically a shocker and eye opener
That was so much knowledge!
I'm a milwaukee guy. But we have had a rigid impact, drill and Sawzall for 7 years. We've used them as hammers. Really beat the shit outta them. They still charge and work perfectly. It's crazy.
Thanks for the information Vince i learned a lot in that video
*_Glad it was helpful!_*
Cool exactly what I needed to know about battery storage.
Fortunately I have a Milwaukee Authorized shop with 30 minutes driving distance, as I have had to exchange several battery packs, including the 12 AH monster (all still under warranty). Thanks for the tips.
I fix batteries locally, yes heat in the truck melt those cells and caused them to leak
i revived most of them and balance them is the key, internal resistance gives you an idea if the batteries done or any life left
Milwaukee has a protection to prevent cells being charged if one of bank cells dropped below certain point, some of the earlier model has bad bms board, especially those 5Ah.
The newer 21700 has a stronger protection.
Some spot welder end points became loose also cause bms to disconnect batteries from charging.
Such a great detailed video. Thank yoy
Glad it was helpful!
I’ve had some Makita lxt 3.0Ah’s for over 10 years and still work well.
Bought my first Milwaukee drill several years ago - around 2013 I think. Came with two 2.0 amp hour batteries. I only used the one battery and never even messed with the second one. Fast forward a few years later and I learned a lesson that they wouldn't charge. I was able to re-use one of the 2 batteries through jump starting it with a good battery (ended up buying a 3rd battery to be my only working one) but now it won't charge again. Now that I have more batteries that work and more tools, I leave the tools in the garage and the batteries inside the house...
The other day I had a problem with my Dewalt battery DCB207
I brought it to my buddies house to do some work. I checked it. It was at 20 V when I left, but now I put on the charger for the fast charger and the charger. Both of them said charged when I measured it with a meter it was 16 V . I put it on myXR DCD791 it doesn’t work but when I put it on the 885 impact it works
I have had that battery since 2019
I like you style man! Respect 🤜🏻 🤛🏻
I thought Milwaukee batteries do that that's why they're do expensive, I know they communicate with the device you're using with so the device won't over heat and the battery stops it from burning I know that's a fact, But Milwaukee batteries also take care of them self, first lighted bar is at 15% and the 4th bar is at 85%, I'm going to call Milwaukee to confirm this...
VCG CONSTRUCTION VINCE. Awesome hand-eye coordination. Throwing the battery in one hand to the other. But here's the thing, you weren't even looking. 😲
Thanks for the tips & I like your idea's bro ✌🏾🔥🤙🏾🌏💚's
Ive had milwaukee batts for 6 years straight used about everyday.. no batts gone bad yet
Rules for any lithium ion batteries:
1. Charge up to 80% and discharge to 20% (most damage comes from this). 90/20 also works
2. Never fast charge, the slower the current the better. Also the less charge cycles the better which is obvious.
3. Store in the basement or cool environment no longer than a year or so before charging back up.
This is the same with my Tesla
So let's say I work in Arizona where outside temperatures are 100 plus degrees and my truck gets even hotter . But I do use my batteries every day . Would it be good to store in cooler with ice pack every day ?
@@isiaac5715 Short answer is yes. Batteries above 86f will degrade faster.
I was always told when using a battery you're running out of charge try to fully drain the battery because you're draining all the batteries inside. Then when you recharge the battery you're charging every battery inside to give it a better charge for that reason. Sometimes if I'm low on a charge I will hook it up to my leaf blower and drain it completely. Have a good day brother ttyl just been working on the new house getting it ready. 😎👊🇺🇸
For old nicad batteries this was true, however with more modern lithium ions if they fall below a certain voltage the chargers will no longer charge them, so dont do this
That is good maintenance for older Nicad technology but is a big nope for newer LI batteries...doing that will shorten their life.
So let's say I work in Arizona where outside temperatures are 100 plus degrees and my truck gets even hotter . But I do use my batteries every day . Would it be good to store in cooler with ice pack every day ?
Great info Vince, thanks for sharing it 👍🏽
@vcg construction Vince great video I work for batteries plus and anyone with bad or died lithium batteries can bring them to a local batteries plus and have them recycled. Also this is true about lithium cells like cell phones have lithium batteries if you have ever had your cell phone in direct heat it will say over heat battery needs to cool down or if you leave your phone in the very cold in your car then you need to bring it in and let it get warm. Lithium cells that are together have that issue while lithium aa/aaa batteries don’t because that is a different chemistry of lithium as tool batteries and cell batteries use lithium ion.
Sup man I watched most of your vids you got anything on a mobile printer to keep in work truck? Thanks
Sorry, I do not
@@VCGConstruction awww man please bro
the BMS prevents the battery from charging when below a certain voltage level ,it doesn't nessasarily mean the cells are toast, if you can bring it above the voltage threshold for charging it will begin most likely to take a charge again.
This is where manufacturers make money so it’s in their interest to not tell consumers or build safety measures to extend battery life since this is the sale they will keep making once you buy into a battery platform just IMO thanks Vince for the quality content!!🤙🏽🤙🏽
Vince - I have a portable Noco GB70 battery jump starter. As you know, it was brutally cold here in Philly. It says this can be stored in temp of -4F? Wouldn't that be too cold since they are lithium batteries? Go Eagles!
Thanks!
Hi Guys!!! Sounds like the battery business is a great cash cow! LOL! Have an awesome weekend everybody!!! God bless you all! And, God Bless America! We sure do need it right now! :-)
Oh yeah! If you dabble in solar energy at all you'll find batteries are the most expensive part of the system!
Hey Bryan, have a great day and God bless.
All good advice and so true, and the same can be implemented for a cell phone....(especially those super quick rapid 20-30 min charges to 100%. Thats gotta be brutal on the battery when done over and over, imo. It’s why I charge my phone at normal rate, as only takes 33 mins longer....usually, and never let phone go below 20-15%. Just my imo).
But back to tool batteries. Would be nice if the batteries didn’t degrade, and maybe someday a brand will solve this “issue”.
Till then, we got some great tips from Vince to help keep batteries at optimal state and to save money by not having to buy more batteries😉👍🏻👍🏻
Thanks Aepek, hope you’re doing well!
LOTS OF GOOD INFO IN THERE MATE
Woah, wait a minute! 300-500!? Today's li-ion batteries far exceed the cycles you mentioned. Those numbers are either from really old polymer, LCO batteries or lab test of full discharge.
"Cycle life" is used to indicate the number of charge-discharge cycles a battery can withstand until it reaches 70-80% remaining capacity. It still delivers all the power but for 20-30% less time.
Most commonly used tools and vehicles batteries:
NCA battery is usually have 800-1000 FULL (0% to 100% to 0%) discharge cycles.
NMC - 1000-2000 FULL discharge cycles.
LFP - 3000-7000 FULL discharge cycles.
The battery management system (BMS) almost always limits the batteries voltage to nominal 3.6-3.7V but it's "100% charge" is 4.0-4.2V. Also puts a bottom (cut-off) buffer as it's never remanded to over-discharge the battery. The absolute bottom is 2.5V (2.0V for LFP) but the cut-off is 3.0V (2.5V for LFP). So you are never using 1 complete discharge cycle under normal operation of a battery pack. You're most likely to double the rated discharge cycles and still have a 70-80% capacity left in the battery.
- Heat and over-discharging is the main enemy of battery life. It's never recommended to use a li-ion battery over 80 degrees C. And never charge a cold battery under 0 degrees C (the charger wont let you either way).
- Leaving the battery on a charger (after it reaches 100%) for long periods of time (overnight or for a few day) as it can lead to higher temperature or even thermal runaway.
- When in storage for a long time, store batteries in a relatively cold place and with 60-90% charge.
- Dropping the battery can brake a solder, fuse, connection or puncture the battery. Power tool batteries are usually pretty robust.
- Fast charging over 1C will slightly shorten the battery life. (1C is a charge rate that represents the power needed to do a full charge in 1 hour.) Most batteries can safely withstand 1.5 to 3C.
- Thermal runaway can happen at temperatures above 200 degrees C (210-250 degrees C).
- A quality battery pack can outlive the tool (or vehicle) of you take into consideration the above-mentioned safety advises.
Great video Vince! I dedicated a couple of canvas tool bags for bringing my batteries in and out of my truck/trailer. It might sound like
a pain to remove the batteries off the tools but it’s not bad. I got used to it. Great tips. Well done, hope you had an awesome weekend! 👍🏻
Nice ,,, taking notes
Agreed. I do exactly the same thing. Northern MN is a bitch on power tools. If you aren’t freezing to death, you’re drowning in humidity. In the spring, we can get both in the same day.
Was waiting for dis OG to start spitting a rhyme at 2:42. Dudes hype af tho 🤣. Helpful and hype 😎
Does the rapid or fast charger shorten the life of the battery?
Very good information that happened to me my out dated 18 volts battery damaged I ask a friend to both battery for me but the shelf life was too long
Sir, have you considered trying decaf...?
So now the obvious question...which battery lines incorporate the built-in charge/discharge limits?
Considering he was holding a Flex battery which is the newest upcoming platform...I get the feeling he may answer that question on Monday night...
I have boxes with tools in them that stay in my car, and I have a box full of batteries that stays in the closet next to the front door. I grab what I might need for the day plus one or two extra and I'm good to go. In the north east summers are hot and very humid, and winters are below freezing consistently.
Okay, I get the part from 9:22 - 10:22 in the video about not running and discharging the battery below the 20% level, but why the prohibition about charging it to 100%?
Awesome Video Brosuff. So much I didn’t know about batteries 🔋 wondering how many cycles usually in the smaller 12-14v have 🤔💭
I would think they’re about the same
Number of cycles is the same regardless of voltage. Each lithium ion cell is roughly 3.7v, manufacturers connect cells in series to provide the voltage each tool needs. Higher voltage= more of the same cells in series.
The charging to 80 and not letting it discharge below 20 could be programmed on the bms- battery management system. But some company's don't give a f and want you to buy batteries more often
If you have older packs that you've run often for several years and have a few hundred cycles on them, you can prolong them by not draining them until cutoff.
Instead, swap them out when they get to 1 bar and you can keep pushing away that green/blue/orange/yellow/red blink of death.
Got some 6.0ah metabo HPT batteries with 2016 dates on them. They charged just fine. Those batteries dont have fuel gages and the metabo tools didnt show fuel meter for them so they must of been dead. They took 3 hours to charge but have been working great
I think the the EGO batteries are the only batteries that have the maintenance charge feature on them and self discharges in storage. EGO batteries won’t keep a charge after 30 days. It’s built like that so they last longer. I can’t wait till the power tool companies include intelligence into the charging process. I wonder if EGO has a patent?
Is Vince hinting at the flex line employing these "Auto" features that is built in to the battery to protect the cells?
Electronic engineer, FCC certified. Great comments from you. There is other important things to know also. Ex. Under load, only and nearly 10 per cent difference between a charged and uncharged nicad. Ex. Triple A nicad that deviation is 1 1 discharged vs 1.2 charged
The individual batteries inside your tools battery are probably “protected batteries” with a circuit in them. When they get to low, the protection circuit locks it out and won’t allow it to recharge. They have trickle type chargers that will ping the battery repeatedly with a charge until it can slowly overcome the protection circuits cutoff level. I had a pair of dead rechargeable CR123 batteries that I brought back to life.
A born on date for the batteries
Ps great video thanks for keeping us informed. Your all awesome 👊💪💪
Anyone have any trouble with their M18-12.0 battery failing prematurely? I bought it with the table saw in mid 2019, but have barely used it due to life reasons. Admittedly, it sat in my truck in CT the entire time, but every other battery, including the fake ones, still hold their charges more than adequately.
Anyone have trouble with their 7 1/4 inch miter saw stuttering every single time I try to make a cut, regardless of the freshness of the battery and the amp/hour caliber? A fresh, year old 9.0 battery does it as much as a 1.5 battery. I blow it off every day, throughout the day and the contacts appear to be spotless. It's done this since day one, but now I can't even use it and I'm using my ten inch Milwaukee that came with the horrible stand. I'm pretty sure that I bought both of these through Home Depot, for what it's worth.
Thanks
Well, looks like you were putting in quite a bit of work for this video on the research side Vince, good video!
yeah borescoped...dont leave the batteries out in that -40 weather anymore 😂
@@kingofthecrease30 Haha, yeah, some of those batteries can’t take it.
@@Borescoped last week when i.did TTR i brought in a ridgid octane battery that was in my truck since november....i had it in vermont a few days where it was -10 out and it still had 4 bars on it....its possible it lost some life cycles after being in my truck all winter...lol
As someone who uses battery powered drills and impacts for home use, should I charge the every couple of months even if I haven't used the tools for the past 6 to 12 months.
A lot of factors to consider I’d say. How low is the charge after that duration. If you use it that infrequently, would you rather risk undervoltage or lose a few cycles? How much do those batteries cost? How long do you expect them to last you if you do recharge them to full if you let them bleed of charge by sitting?
Too many variables IMO for me to give you advice on that. I will, however, tell you what I would do if I were in your situation. I’d probably just go ahead and charge them, I’d rather lose a few cycles that have them go below threshold for bringing them back, but that’s just me. Take some of those questions I listed and make your own evaluation to come to what works for you IMO.
Good luck!
My uncle left a Milwaukee battery in my gutter. I found it over a year and a half later. It had been thru cold, hot, humid, snow, rain and it still worked lol
Below freezing doesn't permanently damage the batteries from the research I've gathered, unless it's extremely cold like -20F. It's only a temporary capacity reduction. Which is suppose indirectly translates to lower life span as you will be charging/discharging more often when it's below freezing.
And yes Vince, I agree 100%, all electronics manufacturers including tools and phones, should be implementing a 20% buffer on each side, with the ability to override this if you need the extra capacity. Would really help improve lifespan of devices and keep this e-waste out of the landfill.
Just wanted to edit: keeping li-ion batteries between 20-80% can increase the charge cycles to well over 1000, even close to 2000 in the papers I've read, that's a massive difference!
I've had to CPR my 2Ahr Ryobi batteries. I know someone who had to warranty a M18 battery fresh out of the kit.
I live in a tropical climate. Whatever the temperature the room is; it's always room temperature.
Thanks for the good info. You guys are in Philly right? Me and a buddy bought a couple tree service bucket trucks at an auction a few years ago in Philadelphia and drove them back here to Vancouver island in British Columbia,3000 miles,was a fun couple days in Philly. Saw the bell,had a philly steak sandwich and went to the Rocky stairs at the museum. 😎
So, is the charger I got with my Milwaukee 1/2" hammer drill kit about 5 years ago a standard charger or a rapid charger? That is the question.
And the flip side of using a slower standard charger: you need more batteries to keep working while the "dead" battery takes twice as long to charge.
Unless it says Rapid or Super charger, it will be a standard charger.
Vince you been working out? Your chest and shoulders look shredded in this video. Good work man!
You are so right thanks for the video!!!!! Keep them coming!!!
Way too much talk , just get to it & no bull
Holds up FLEX battery while talking about built-in controls. I wonder if Vince is hinting at something with this new line of tools. Excited about tomorrow!
Good eye! I think your on to something
yeah wondering the same.
Thought the same thing
@@dantheveganman you
Interior of vehicles can reach over 150°F (65°C+) in the summer heat. Definitely not wise to leave these packs above 60°c, ever. 45-50°c is a more general limit.
I subscribed so i can watch the flex faceoff. Luv those vids. Aspiring contractor/entrepreneur and i watch ya vids everyday kinfolk.
The very basic chargers that come with tool batteries make it hard to care for batteries. With no selectable charge rate, the charger always charges at its max capability. There is also no way to set the charger to charge to less than 100% if you wish to put the battery to a 40-60% storage charge.
I had a Milwaukee V28 system of tools and the batteries would die on me when I left them in the truck over night. The dealer would replace the battery without question. I went through several batties before I got sick of returning them. They would not believe me when I told them about the cold, they would just replace, dumb.
When my battery goes bad it's time to get new one. I use all my batteries till they're completely discharge and I charge till is full. Anyway for me batteries less over a year what it means is that this little pack made definitely enough money to be replaced.
Get a corded one , mine oldest is 37 years it gets used 7 days a week minimum 12 hours a day lol
Don't get my blood boiling about tool deals. In the states you get great deals. Here in the UK the deals we get don't come close. Great video guys.
agree wholeheartedly. i'm in the uk too and we don't get anything half as good as the guys stateside. i'm looking at getting a router, jigsaw and a multi tool. it's gonna cost me a fortune
Don't get me wrong there's nothing like the convenience of a battery powered device especially the screw gun but for the most part I do not mind picking up a three-prong Court walking up to an orifice and sticking that into that spot it does not take me all that long it is not that much of an inconvenience to have a wire attached to it and the fact that I have peak power and performance at the flick of a switch I think is worth all the inconvenience of sticking that power cord into a hole and having to wind up a power line I know it really makes life difficult for some but I guess I'm used to it
I believe there are laws prohibiting manufacturers to advertise one level and be lower than advertised. Maybe by a small percentage, but they can’t just tell you it’s at one level and sell at lower level. Similar to slack fill laws for food.
Good info! Preciate it!
Do the Milwaukee batteries have the 80 max charge 20 min tech that he is talking about at the end ?
Great guy. Greetings from Bangkok.
Great explanation!