Pure hydrogen would be terrible for air cooling. Extremely low density means very little heat transfer. Methane is has about 2x the specific heat of air. Water in it's gaseous phase (steam) would also be more effective than air. There are issues with these solutions.
This is a real good sign for manufacturing in general, metal 3d printing must have taken a sharp drop in price for it to go from aerospace manufacturing to AIO water blocks.
Note this is in particular "water/solution based" ECAM, which to my memory are basically just copper and nickle. So not the often-desired stainless steel/aluminium/etc metals, though I do wonder if this method can do those more interesting metals? I am not finding any papers with my google-fu
@@EslamNawito I don't know how much I can say, but read up on Resin 3D printing, and most of those same complications seem to apply. So yes, there are challenges, and yes porosity is a concern. Though final-finish sintering is easy with pure copper to seal holes at whatever size you want, leaving any larger (intentional for flow) holes alone.
@@admalledd It should be able to do anything that you can electroplate with. Copper and nickle would be the most common but I can see other metals being used for some applications
I know it wasn't but even 2 years ago it fell l felt space age and niche. I am sure it had already started revolutionizing engineering and product sampling.
Forget 3D printing, if you can do this sort of fine-detail targeted electroplating you could probably manufacture low-volume custom PCBs without nearly as many complicated steps. Prototyping PCB designs can take a long time, because while they are pretty cheap per unit you typically need to order a larger quantity than you need and it's days or weeks between prototypes. But in theory this type of printer could dramatically speed that up.
Exactly this, for pcb prototyping id hazard this a borderline breakthrough if you can put it on any kind of proper substrate. Youd still need someway to do vias though, so its not all encompassing, but still. And with the resolution it offers, god only knows what kind of new shit you could do.
For some designs of PCBs there's already 3d printers that use conductive ink to create PCBs fairly quickly. Voltera is one brand. You're not going to make PCBs for super dense BGAs on a four layer board, but for some applications it's a viable alternative in the prototyping stage.
@@1vend7 Oh absolutely. I've been making my own PCBs at home for about 20 years using some pretty crude methods that work great once you're used to it. But sometimes it's nice to have a "proper" solution so to speak.
I think the coolest part is the shape of the "fins" . The uprights look like a cool spire, with channels to flow not only around them, but through them too.
@@originalkhawk That depends on whether or not they can get a patent on an ML generated design. Which will depend on if they can convince a court that the AI was "just assisting" a human designer, or if the court (rightfully) recognizes that the design is fundamentally the work of the learning model.
@@originalkhawkwell they patented something as simple as having the pump on block, so they'll probably get something that prevents anyone else from utilizing 3D printing for blocks. They'll find a way to fuck every other company.
That’s so cool! I can’t help but notice that this report really hit the spot, and your power supply one you did at CES really hit the spot too. Good stuff, I really enjoy the cadence.
Those are really cool, on the close ups I recognised the gyroid infill, is it good for cooling though? I would imagine it would be given its surface area and that is is fully open. The other pattern they used looked even more complicated but it was difficult to see. How were these printed though? If it was a metal powder process then they would need to get all the powder out of the tiny fine details so how do they manage that? I should have just watched further, I am still surprised with how precise they can get, they need to have just the right concentration of copper and hope that there is enough dissolved copper where it is needed, then they need to tune the expose time too, if they leave it on too long it could just pick up too many copper atoms and basically electroplate it, but too short and they won’t build it up large enough.
7:30 I am pretty sure the reason it is designed the way it is, is to be able to maintain a relatively constant water flow and pressure across the entire cold plate, in other words a larger volume of water is flowing across the entire cold plate.
Props to Alex, and the whole crew honestly, I can't imagine doing this. Huge loud crowds that are all saying the same thing, pressure from all sides to make the product look good, flashing lights everywhere, I would be very uncomfortable. Great work on the coverage so far.
Forget the water blocks, where do I get the printer tech? Printing in metal sounds great, and this sounds like it would be possible to print at home cheaply.
In Costa Rica, we need light to see the street even more, here we have some holes that are huge and we got the next to each other and several of them jejeje
thats so cool. this technology was actually used in nuclear fusion plant. except they used pipes in their water tank. very old tech matter of fact but no one has ever came up with that idea outside of nuclear plant. i remember myths buster try to find ways to how chill coke fast and they couldnt find any. i already knew how to chill fast beside using salt that doesnt work. more surface area mean more rapid themal transfer, also sometime pulse contact also mean faster themal transfer as well.
looks like it will be a pain to clean if you get contaminants in the coolant, bad enough with standard plates, but they look like they would be a scrap it and get another?
This is SO cool, I hope it comes to custom water cooling too. Though those complex structures would probably make good air coolers as well, maximising surface area. Maybe we could finally see VRM coolers get a bit smaller again, but without giving up cooling performance with all the extra surface area.
Another advantage not mentioned is retooling. For most processes, the setup is fixed. That tool will only ever make the one part, and to make a different part you need new tools, though the same machine might be used. As with SLA, it only takes uploading a new file and as long as the print bed is big enough, that's it.
Hopefully someone decides to do this for open loop water blocks. The heat transfer between the CPU dies and the coolant is one of the limiting factors when it comes to open loop cooling and this could really help with that.
I remember comments about this technology a few years ago: "It's too slow, it will never have any use outside of prototypes" Slow, yes..... but it can do otherwise impossible things and is highly scalable.
How do they get the crystalline structure right for maximum thermal conductivity when 3d printing? Also, isn't 3d printed metal inherently porous/less dense? Smells like buzz
Not convinced by the variable density fins... Seems like you'd just get less flow through the dense fins at the same pressure as the rest of the system.
the surface area is also amazingly improved for water contact > that is huge and hopefully they start using that for the annode and cathodes in new l-ion batteries too, i have been waiting for the battery tech, and aio's beat them to it, lol
Alex, that's backwards. On TR, the cores are on the outside, I/O on the inside. I/O needs FAR less cooling than cores. The flow should mostly be directed to the outside of that coldplate.
hello it's not clear to me how we should apply this to the aio or water pump. should we mod them? are they going to release custom cooler with this solution ?
The only problem I foresee with this... if it moves to the DIY Water-cooling sector... is mixing metals (at all.) In cases with 3D-Printed cold-plates, the same, or compatible materials should also be used in the radiator and any other cold-plates in the loop. Corrosion within a cold plate like that would be devastating.
Gyroids have 2 surfaces. 2 liquids could seperately flow through that in a closed system, couldn't they? The print as a 3D membrane between those liquids could have super interesting electrochemical applications, where we currently use mostly membranes!
I hope one day they invent better air for better air cooling.
We need some AI designed 3D printed air for real
(Liquid) nitrogen…
that would be hydrogen, pure hydrogen, would not recommend
Pure hydrogen would be terrible for air cooling. Extremely low density means very little heat transfer.
Methane is has about 2x the specific heat of air. Water in it's gaseous phase (steam) would also be more effective than air. There are issues with these solutions.
that's just Freon
I really feel like putting trade show coverage on short circuit is the appropriate move. 👍
"We got the radiator right here, that yeets the heat out" : Short Circuit vocabulary
This is a real good sign for manufacturing in general, metal 3d printing must have taken a sharp drop in price for it to go from aerospace manufacturing to AIO water blocks.
Note this is in particular "water/solution based" ECAM, which to my memory are basically just copper and nickle. So not the often-desired stainless steel/aluminium/etc metals, though I do wonder if this method can do those more interesting metals? I am not finding any papers with my google-fu
Won't that 3D printed metal be porous? what about air bubbles & gunk getting stuck?
@@EslamNawito I don't know how much I can say, but read up on Resin 3D printing, and most of those same complications seem to apply. So yes, there are challenges, and yes porosity is a concern. Though final-finish sintering is easy with pure copper to seal holes at whatever size you want, leaving any larger (intentional for flow) holes alone.
@@admalledd It should be able to do anything that you can electroplate with. Copper and nickle would be the most common but I can see other metals being used for some applications
@@kiwihuman yeah you can electroplate silver and gold and I'm sure the jewelry industry is looking into it
crazy how not too long ago 3D prinitng felt like an expensive fever dream, crazy how far we have come
I know it wasn't but even 2 years ago it fell l felt space age and niche. I am sure it had already started revolutionizing engineering and product sampling.
It's been like ten years of sort of mainstream
3D-printing has been available to industrial clients for multiple decades, but it has progressed a lot in the past years and also got a lot cheaper.
Hobby level 3D printing has been around for over 10 years and industrial 3D printing has been around even longer.
Ironically, it was pretty expensive when the hype was at its peak; it's much more affordable now, across all categories.
Aight fair enough, this is actually legitimately really cool.
Pun intended?
@@leonro hehehehe
ba dum tss
Alex looks like he is genuinely enjoying himself. Like a kid in the candy shop
Alex is the perfect man for LTT trade show coverage. This and using his superb technical jankiness is why I'll watch any videos with him.
But where’s the Jank? 😂
As a 3D Printing enthusiast this is actually crazy stuff to see. 3D printing is the future.
"Oh geeze, we nearly forgot to segue to our sponsor!"
My man's career flashed before his eyes.
Okay, the electronics engineer in me was suddenly super intrigued by the 3d printed waveguide for radar Tx's. That's actually fkng dope.
as are defense contractors
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
The thumbnail makes me want to eat pop tarts
ikr?
Forget 3D printing, if you can do this sort of fine-detail targeted electroplating you could probably manufacture low-volume custom PCBs without nearly as many complicated steps. Prototyping PCB designs can take a long time, because while they are pretty cheap per unit you typically need to order a larger quantity than you need and it's days or weeks between prototypes. But in theory this type of printer could dramatically speed that up.
Exactly this, for pcb prototyping id hazard this a borderline breakthrough if you can put it on any kind of proper substrate. Youd still need someway to do vias though, so its not all encompassing, but still. And with the resolution it offers, god only knows what kind of new shit you could do.
For some designs of PCBs there's already 3d printers that use conductive ink to create PCBs fairly quickly. Voltera is one brand. You're not going to make PCBs for super dense BGAs on a four layer board, but for some applications it's a viable alternative in the prototyping stage.
Or you can try to make PCBs manually, I've made some in the past, quick and easy, you just have to take the time to learn
@@1vend7 Oh absolutely. I've been making my own PCBs at home for about 20 years using some pretty crude methods that work great once you're used to it. But sometimes it's nice to have a "proper" solution so to speak.
You can already ‘print’ pcb circuit boards with cnc machines
ECAM is genius. Localised electroplating!
Screw the cold plate, THIS is the tech I want!
I think the coolest part is the shape of the "fins" . The uprights look like a cool spire, with channels to flow not only around them, but through them too.
Great now Asetek is going to get a patent for using 3D printing in water blocks.
they can't patent the manufacturing process, but they can (and will / have) patent all the water block designs sadly
@@originalkhawk That depends on whether or not they can get a patent on an ML generated design. Which will depend on if they can convince a court that the AI was "just assisting" a human designer, or if the court (rightfully) recognizes that the design is fundamentally the work of the learning model.
@@originalkhawkwell they patented something as simple as having the pump on block, so they'll probably get something that prevents anyone else from utilizing 3D printing for blocks. They'll find a way to fuck every other company.
No shit.. I've got to say, I have ZERO respect for Asetek as a company. They feel more like patent trolls than a real innovative company at times.
Super cool design, and even better to see it in action! It’s awesome that our software was part of this exciting project 🚀
Now I am waiting for 3D printted Aircoolers with the same concept. Very intereseting.
That’s so cool!
I can’t help but notice that this report really hit the spot, and your power supply one you did at CES really hit the spot too. Good stuff, I really enjoy the cadence.
Those are really cool, on the close ups I recognised the gyroid infill, is it good for cooling though? I would imagine it would be given its surface area and that is is fully open. The other pattern they used looked even more complicated but it was difficult to see.
How were these printed though? If it was a metal powder process then they would need to get all the powder out of the tiny fine details so how do they manage that? I should have just watched further, I am still surprised with how precise they can get, they need to have just the right concentration of copper and hope that there is enough dissolved copper where it is needed, then they need to tune the expose time too, if they leave it on too long it could just pick up too many copper atoms and basically electroplate it, but too short and they won’t build it up large enough.
Alex is so enthusiastic i could listen him all day... :) and the product is also really exciting and finally a good use for AI clever
Uh, the antenna PoC really makes me interested in a deeper dive of that 3d-printing technique.
Yall better not auction this cold plate
😂
Impressive insights on fabric 8 Labs' innovation in water cooling. The potential impact on overall CPU performance is intriguing.
COMPLETE FREEDOM COMPLETELY
...wich is not completely stupid
I can't wait to 3D-print the next heir of my family-clan.
7:30 I am pretty sure the reason it is designed the way it is, is to be able to maintain a relatively constant water flow and pressure across the entire cold plate, in other words a larger volume of water is flowing across the entire cold plate.
Can't wait for 3d printed metal to be patented again lmao
Lol I just commented something similar. If I were Asetek I'd sue you rn. 😂
Asutek don’t make 3d printers, they just contract it to a company with an industrial SLS machine
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
The thumbnail looks like a cybertronic poptart
what happened to the air jet project ? That was so good.
I hope that the no news is a waiting period for testing longevity of the product in real applications, like for laptop manufacturers
Props to Alex, and the whole crew honestly, I can't imagine doing this. Huge loud crowds that are all saying the same thing, pressure from all sides to make the product look good, flashing lights everywhere, I would be very uncomfortable. Great work on the coverage so far.
Forget the water blocks, where do I get the printer tech? Printing in metal sounds great, and this sounds like it would be possible to print at home cheaply.
In Costa Rica, we need light to see the street even more, here we have some holes that are huge and we got the next to each other and several of them jejeje
Can we replace ethernet cable between routers if the wifi signal from these 3D printed antenna is much precise and efficient.
thats so cool. this technology was actually used in nuclear fusion plant. except they used pipes in their water tank. very old tech matter of fact but no one has ever came up with that idea outside of nuclear plant. i remember myths buster try to find ways to how chill coke fast and they couldnt find any. i already knew how to chill fast beside using salt that doesnt work. more surface area mean more rapid themal transfer, also sometime pulse contact also mean faster themal transfer as well.
You’ll be thrilled to hear about reaction engines
Where can i find more information about the 3D printed radar sensor?
Wow this is really cool. I'm almost certainly going to use this for my next PC build later this year / early next year.
Welcome back PIA :)
This could work with any plating material right? Not just copper.
They could 3d print ultra fine silver mesh for use in filtration.
Love Technical Explanations by Alex 😄❤
looks like it will be a pain to clean if you get contaminants in the coolant, bad enough with standard plates, but they look like they would be a scrap it and get another?
Worth the click just to see the skiving - I had no idea that's how they did that.
I would love a non asetek one... a custom loop with a D5 would love it.
I just gotta Say, Alex is the best presenter of tech at LMG (imo), love the enthusiasm, passion and knowledge af! Greetings from EU
Now that’s some cool tech! I’d love to see labs test it against other water and air cooling methods once it comes out
This is SO cool, I hope it comes to custom water cooling too. Though those complex structures would probably make good air coolers as well, maximising surface area. Maybe we could finally see VRM coolers get a bit smaller again, but without giving up cooling performance with all the extra surface area.
Another advantage not mentioned is retooling. For most processes, the setup is fixed. That tool will only ever make the one part, and to make a different part you need new tools, though the same machine might be used. As with SLA, it only takes uploading a new file and as long as the print bed is big enough, that's it.
Only issue I see that those narrow flow paths require very clean fluid and any impurities will glogg up and tank performance.
Hopefully someone decides to do this for open loop water blocks. The heat transfer between the CPU dies and the coolant is one of the limiting factors when it comes to open loop cooling and this could really help with that.
Like in car manufacturing where metal 3D print has been used, and AI for design optimization. It makes sense it would get to cooling as well.
It's not often that I see something totally new and REALLY cool. Well done!!
So a 65 Watt cpu would only be less than 1.5°C cooler? Doesn't seem wotth6it unless it's the same price or close enough.
Won't that metal be porous? what about air bubbles & gunk getting stuck?
Why don’t you just hook up ln2 or something that periodically blasts it?
some charts about the performances should be good to see, i can't wait.
I remember comments about this technology a few years ago: "It's too slow, it will never have any use outside of prototypes"
Slow, yes..... but it can do otherwise impossible things and is highly scalable.
How do they get the crystalline structure right for maximum thermal conductivity when 3d printing? Also, isn't 3d printed metal inherently porous/less dense? Smells like buzz
whats the price on the printer?!? thats the interesting bit imo
Cool stuff, And when the next socket comes out the ECAM can make those too.
PIA is back? I remember the time, that PIA was the goat of the sponsors for LTT.
FYI, PIA is also the first sponsor who appears in Short Circuit.
LTT posted a video explaining it 9 days ago!
@@wilhellmllw3608 The video = "I like money"
@@JamesWright1919 who doesn’t 🤷♂️
How long is print time?
1mm in height per hour, so it's a bit slow. But it's not expensive to scale as he said.
I was waiting for something like this! 3D printing is the future!
Daymn Alex is hot!
I would have to turn the heat on to warm up my thumbs enough to press the like button.
2.3 degrees improvement from the cold plate alone is insane
Are you gonna auction off the prototype?
Not convinced by the variable density fins... Seems like you'd just get less flow through the dense fins at the same pressure as the rest of the system.
I was literally thinking "Dude this is amazing, wait until they use AI to figure out the most efficient pattern". One sec later 1:33
Gotta admit I thought the thumbnail for this video was of a Poptart.
Now I'm kinda hungry.
Nice tech this printer! thanks
Those are some tiny holes for the water to pass through. You better tell Linus not to cheap out on tap water for his loop. 😉
the surface area is also amazingly improved for water contact > that is huge and hopefully they start using that for the annode and cathodes in new l-ion batteries too, i have been waiting for the battery tech, and aio's beat them to it, lol
I want that 3d Printer!
I guess you've never heard of a CNC machine.
Apple Silicon responds: Apple-flavored . . . Kool Aid?
Can I buy the printer, is 10K enough? Why is it request quote?
This would be really cool for making laptop vapor chambers!
Would be cool to see it mounted and in active use.
I thought that was a Resin 3D Print at first
How can you have any pudding if you don't yeet your heat
Great to see r&d in aio production! But, I shudder to think about the price!!
Alex, that's backwards. On TR, the cores are on the outside, I/O on the inside. I/O needs FAR less cooling than cores. The flow should mostly be directed to the outside of that coldplate.
Unfortunately everything tends to the same temperature, being in close proximity. And IO does use many watts of power when driving 24 PEX5 lanes.
Oh he's holding something they might have to auction that too
That IS cool, or should I say, "cooler." ~ I couldn't resist.
The fact that you can 3d print copper at room temperature feels absolutely insane to me.
hello it's not clear to me how we should apply this to the aio or water pump. should we mod them? are they going to release custom cooler with this solution ?
I'm honestly surprised that this wasn't already being implemented by the current WC component manufacturers..
5:09 Bad Apple but played in copper?.
I like the close up
I was like: its a resin printer.
"Magnets instead of UV"
Oh thats clever
This is so cool to be there, but I am here doing my bachelor degree in telecommunications
And this YEET... to our sponsor
The thumbnail looks like he's holding a pop tart.
Guess it's lunch time for me.
almost 7 degrees Celsius on a 300w seeeeeeems INSAAAANE from just this one bit of improvement.
It's improvement when compared to their previous AIO, so it's not quite as impressive as it might seem.
This looks like something that needs fluid topology optimization... Would be a cool project to work on.
But production is probably very expensive.
The only problem I foresee with this... if it moves to the DIY Water-cooling sector... is mixing metals (at all.)
In cases with 3D-Printed cold-plates, the same, or compatible materials should also be used in the radiator and any other cold-plates in the loop. Corrosion within a cold plate like that would be devastating.
"It's not that expensive" is his pitch to Linus to buy one.
Gyroids have 2 surfaces. 2 liquids could seperately flow through that in a closed system, couldn't they? The print as a 3D membrane between those liquids could have super interesting electrochemical applications, where we currently use mostly membranes!
Better have some good filtering and corrosion control in a loop using those base plates.
Would be clogged within a month otherwise :D
4:42 Science is wild
All that they need is the "Andrés García" Pump.
Don't let LTT have it, they will just auction it off.
Then Der8auer said no2 pot that is 3d printed will cost $10k. So how much are these gonna be?