I was with kelvin, (agent in denmark.) from 1966 till 1969, sold the t.8 and T.6 + some r.6 to Danish fishermen, - often Mr. Ian Henderson came over to see us.A happy time with a simple reliable engine, Director was. Mr. Greenhill. and fine people at Glascow.
I worked in the factory from 1967 to 1973 so you might have worked on one of the engines I built...the factory was in dobbies loan townhead glasgow and Mr Greenhill was the company director all 6ft 6in of him english man very posh
I was on the motor barge Roan in 1969, London & Rochester Trading Company. She had a Kelvin 88, which was the 4 cylinder version of this type. M.V. Action was another small Coaster with twin 66's, the three cylinder version. Brilliant, reliable old workhorses! We started on petrol then changed the valve over to run on diesel when it was running. We used to put a drop of petrol in the bowl at the end of the air intake manifold, then squirt some through the vent taps on the side of the heads. All hand crank in those days, no fancy electric start for us back then.
I was on the NOUGHTON she had an 88hp Kelvin engine, never let you down, plodded on and on. great days. Late 60s 70s, That was about the time I was working for Crescent Shipping. then went on to the small Coaster LOBE. running around the southeast coast and across to the Continent, Rotterdam, Belgium, France.
@@brian.7966 Hi Brian,i was on the mv Rodent in the 70s for Crescent Shipping, i think she had a 3 cylinder 66 hp Kelvin engine, a good engine,hard to turn over when you are knee high to a grasshopper, the Skipper was bing Bill Sales
Hi Mo Gordon ,i was on the mv Rodent in the 70s for Crescent Shipping, i think she had a 3 cylinder 66 hp Kelvin engine, a good engine,hard to turn over when you are knee high to a grasshopper, the Skipper was bing Bill Sales
Hi Jeffrey! Have only just come back on here, sorry it's taken this long! I was only on Crescent for a few months as I was waiting for a belated welder/plater apprenticeship to start. John Woolsey from Greenwich was my skipper, a miserable shit and always came back on board pissed! Nearly had us run down twice! Both times up the Thames! I wanted to go on the continental boats like Kiption and ignition but was told they wanted me to learn the Wallasea, Rochford and Medway runs. Not long after leaving them, I joined the Royal Naval Auxiliary service at Chatham and trained as a marine engineer, on inshore minesweepers, mfv's, fleet tenders, a tug and fast patrol boats. Had 16 years with them and ended up a chief P.o. Would have stayed with crescent if I'd got a continental boat.Happy days!,
I was boy on a sailing barge back in the ‘50s and we had this engine - start on petrol and run on TVO at about 10 old pence a gallon. Hand crank of course lol
Good to see her started on the crank, most seem to have electric starts which just seems wrong (I appreciate I'm not the one having to do the starting though!).
That type engine developed 22 bhp per cylinder at 750rpm in fishing working boats, tickover on diesel is 180 rpm with a 9 inch stroke. Indirect injection needs petrol to start and warm cylinders to fire on diesel.
"Indirect injection needs petrol to start and warm cylinders to fire on diesel." Errr, where did you come to that observation? I've worked on diesels for some 45 years (and my father before me) and am aware that the accepted manner of starting an indirect injection diesel is by heating the air in the pre-combustion chamber, via heater plugs or a thermostart system (typical on many small diesels - particularly Perkins). At a pinch, you could stuff a lighted rag into the inlet manifold! Contrary to many people's observations about ether (yer engine gets 'dicted to it - don it), I (and my father) found that if used correctly, many more useful years are given to both starter motor AND battery.
Les Reed The engine has a dual function principal. Meaning, the engine operates gasoline first to warm up the diesel side of the engine. Once the diesel side warms up, you change over the engine to run on diesel. Hence way some old tractor books refer to these engines as Change-Over engines. The gas side is for engine warm up, and the diesel side is for work. International Harvester made series of these engines for all types of applications, like the UD-16 and UD-24. But they were mostly used in dozers and power units applications. So " Indirect injection needs petrol to start and warm cylinders to fire on diesel" is a correct statement, to this video. As the Kelvin engine utilizes this function.
Hello. Don't like to cut and paste - but if it helps.... "An indirect injection diesel engine delivers fuel into a chamber off the combustion chamber, called a prechamber, where combustion begins and then spreads into the main combustion chamber. The prechamber is carefully designed to ensure adequate mixing of the atomized fuel with the compression-heated air." You seem to be saying to me that because this engine operates over a dual fuel system, that it is an indirect injection engine: that would only be the case if it had a "pre-combustion chamber/Ricardo chamber". If it does, then you are correct, but you've made no mention of this chamber - only that it uses petrol to warm up - and then switches to diesel. Does it have a pre-combustion chamber, which is separate from the main combustion chamber? Cheers, Les.
Engines of this nature are usually of the indirect injection kind. If not, they should have two different combustion chambers; one for diesel(main chamber) and one gasoline/petrol(starting). The chambers are separate and sit over the cylinder. Arrangement of the chambers varies, depending on the manufacturer. Some heads are set up with the diesel combustion chamber at the uppermost part, or diagonally. A valve is what separates the chambers. Then is moved when converting the engine to run on straight diesel.
Pre combustion chambers. Like my Mercedes 240d. It will drink any liquid that burns as long as there are no lumps in it. Used engine oil, paraffin with 100:1 2 stroke mix used chip fat etc,etc,etc Harry Ricardo- a genius.
@@annajeannettedixon2453 I think you mean governor which controls the rack. 44hp could not be made at 600rpm only 750. Look up the Kelvin book on line.
I'd appreciate that, I've been in transportation forever and really like engines of all kinds. I got turned on to this style of engine through a recommended video of a June Munktell powered fishing boat. So relaxing to listen to. Might get a boat with a low speed diesel just to unwind. Thank you for the response.
We used to own fishing boats and one,a 65 ft vessel had a lister JP 6 which at working speed would sometimes only consume 1 gal. per hour. We could calculate fuel use because the engine had a day tank where fuel used during the day could be observed. A lot of these engines are similarly economical.
I am told this engine is 22 BHP Using the formula BHP x .055 = gallons per hour in US Gallon. There are 1.25 US gallons in 1 imperial gallon. That gives us 1.2 US Gallon. Knowing how little power it takes to keeping a narrow boat moving it is likely they use something around 1/2 a imperial gallon an hour cruising.
Presumably you still own the narrow boat this engine lives in I have seen another video done by " Cruising The Cut " and his engine is a wee bit easier to start than yours as his is equipped with an electric starter. Not that you don't start her easily but we are all getting older and pushing a button instead of manually cranking her over may make you feel better. Cruising The Cut videos has three videos about classic old engines like yours in a proper engine room. Do you still hand crank your car? Time to consider installing a electric starter. Other than the starter all you really need is a geared flywheel. Merry Christmas! Cheers!
Engines like those are likely more about nostalgia then ease of use. Like a status symbol. Otherwise I would guess that a conversion to a modern diesel engine would have been done. It’s very cool in my opinion. Crank on and cheers!
Jeremy Kamel this actually looks like a newish boat judging by the steelwork. Likely it was constructed with the intention of installing a classic showpiece engine. Conversion was never a consideration!
If you knew propeller torque curves, you'd know that low end torque isn't necessary since propeller horsepower consumption is the highest at the highest RPM. But having a 1942 engine is unique. Give me a modern 3 cylinder water cooled engine that you simply turn a key to start.
@@Tchristman100 Quite presumptuous about what I know and what I don't know - but thanks anyway. I'd love to stay and chat - but I'm a busy engineer and not an armchair youtube critic
Big old two lung thumper. Around the same time this engine was designed International Harvester had a number of large diesels that also started on gas then switched over to diesel. Thanks for sharing the video and seeing the old beast being started and running.
That rings a bell! In 1970 I knew a farmer who had an IH crawler tractor that he started on petrol then switched to either kerosene or diesel ... I can't remember which ... to carry on. It was a bullet-proof engine that, typically for much farm machinery, received only very basic maintenance, yet went and went and went ... left outside in all weather of course!
We had two John Deere "Johnny Poppers" that could start on gas (petrol) and switch to just about anything runnier than lard once they warmed up. But they were spark-ignition engines on all fuels, not diesel. They did blow smoke rings when burning kerosene, which we thought was pretty cool.
I've been around a ten or so of those crawler tractors. A couple were really big too. Saw two of those engines set up as gensets and one driving a sawmill.
Music to this ole mechanics ears...
Thanks for sharing this beautiful old engine with us!
Lovin it! Forget TV, this is the best watch.
I was with kelvin, (agent in denmark.) from 1966 till 1969, sold the t.8 and T.6 + some r.6 to Danish fishermen, - often Mr. Ian Henderson came over to see us.A happy time with a simple reliable engine, Director was. Mr. Greenhill. and fine people at Glascow.
well I was a marine engineer and have rebuilt the k4 kelvin 88 hp
I worked in the factory from 1967 to 1973 so you might have worked on one of the engines I built...the factory was in dobbies loan townhead glasgow and Mr Greenhill was the company director all 6ft 6in of him english man very posh
Simply fantastic. Thanks a lot for taping editing uploading and sharing.
8.1/4 litres.... yet the tick over is so slow and calm, amazing.
500+ cubic inches of soothing music.....lovely💗
I was on the motor barge Roan in 1969, London & Rochester Trading Company. She had a Kelvin 88, which was the 4 cylinder version of this type. M.V. Action was another small Coaster with twin 66's, the three cylinder version. Brilliant, reliable old workhorses! We started on petrol then changed the valve over to run on diesel when it was running. We used to put a drop of petrol in the bowl at the end of the air intake manifold, then squirt some through the vent taps on the side of the heads. All hand crank in those days, no fancy electric start for us back then.
I was on the NOUGHTON she had an 88hp Kelvin engine, never let you down, plodded on and on. great days. Late 60s 70s, That was about the time I was working for Crescent Shipping. then went on to the small Coaster LOBE. running around the southeast coast and across to the Continent, Rotterdam, Belgium, France.
@@brian.7966 Hi Brian,i was on the mv Rodent in the 70s for Crescent Shipping, i think she had a 3 cylinder 66 hp Kelvin engine, a good engine,hard to turn over when you are knee high to a grasshopper, the Skipper was bing Bill Sales
Hi Mo Gordon ,i was on the mv Rodent in the 70s for Crescent Shipping, i think she had a 3 cylinder 66 hp Kelvin engine, a good engine,hard to turn over when you are knee high to a grasshopper, the Skipper was bing Bill Sales
Hi Jeffrey! Have only just come back on here, sorry it's taken this long! I was only on Crescent for a few months as I was waiting for a belated welder/plater apprenticeship to start. John Woolsey from Greenwich was my skipper, a miserable shit and always came back on board pissed! Nearly had us run down twice! Both times up the Thames! I wanted to go on the continental boats like Kiption and ignition but was told they wanted me to learn the Wallasea, Rochford and Medway runs. Not long after leaving them, I joined the Royal Naval Auxiliary service at Chatham and trained as a marine engineer, on inshore minesweepers, mfv's, fleet tenders, a tug and fast patrol boats. Had 16 years with them and ended up a chief P.o. Would have stayed with crescent if I'd got a continental boat.Happy days!,
I was boy on a sailing barge back in the ‘50s and we had this engine - start on petrol and run on TVO at about 10 old pence a gallon. Hand crank of course lol
What a beautiful engine.
Absolutely beautiful.
Amazing!
Good to see her started on the crank, most seem to have electric starts which just seems wrong (I appreciate I'm not the one having to do the starting though!).
Even the most diehard of diehards give it up after a while.....no shame really....swinging those big pots over wears the back out a bit.
Good engine and good luck , good video to .
Beautiful nothing else to say.
It has a very good starter.
Certenly Not push button nor stealth … but prized by oily aficionados … Cheers !
That type engine developed 22 bhp per cylinder at 750rpm in fishing working boats, tickover on diesel is 180 rpm with a 9 inch stroke. Indirect injection needs petrol to start and warm cylinders to fire on diesel.
"Indirect injection needs petrol to start and warm cylinders to fire on diesel."
Errr, where did you come to that observation?
I've worked on diesels for some 45 years (and my father before me) and am aware that the accepted manner of starting an indirect injection diesel is by heating the air in the pre-combustion chamber, via heater plugs or a thermostart system (typical on many small diesels - particularly Perkins). At a pinch, you could stuff a lighted rag into the inlet manifold!
Contrary to many people's observations about ether (yer engine gets 'dicted to it - don it), I (and my father) found that if used correctly, many more useful years are given to both starter motor AND battery.
Les Reed The engine has a dual function principal. Meaning, the engine operates gasoline first to warm up the diesel side of the engine. Once the diesel side warms up, you change over the engine to run on diesel. Hence way some old tractor books refer to these engines as Change-Over engines. The gas side is for engine warm up, and the diesel side is for work. International Harvester made series of these engines for all types of applications, like the UD-16 and UD-24. But they were mostly used in dozers and power units applications.
So " Indirect injection needs petrol to start and warm cylinders to fire on diesel" is a correct statement, to this video. As the Kelvin engine utilizes this function.
Hello. Don't like to cut and paste - but if it helps....
"An indirect injection diesel engine delivers fuel into a chamber off the combustion chamber, called a prechamber, where combustion begins and then spreads into the main combustion chamber. The prechamber is carefully designed to ensure adequate mixing of the atomized fuel with the compression-heated air."
You seem to be saying to me that because this engine operates over a dual fuel system, that it is an indirect injection engine: that would only be the case if it had a "pre-combustion chamber/Ricardo chamber". If it does, then you are correct, but you've made no mention of this chamber - only that it uses petrol to warm up - and then switches to diesel. Does it have a pre-combustion chamber, which is separate from the main combustion chamber? Cheers, Les.
Engines of this nature are usually of the indirect injection kind. If not, they should have two different combustion chambers; one for diesel(main chamber) and one gasoline/petrol(starting). The chambers are separate and sit over the cylinder. Arrangement of the chambers varies, depending on the manufacturer. Some heads are set up with the diesel combustion chamber at the uppermost part, or diagonally. A valve is what separates the chambers. Then is moved when converting the engine to run on straight diesel.
Pre combustion chambers. Like my Mercedes 240d. It will drink any liquid that burns as long as there are no lumps in it. Used engine oil, paraffin with 100:1 2 stroke mix used chip fat etc,etc,etc Harry Ricardo- a genius.
K2 is 44 HP very good engine top rpm 600
750 rpm for K Kelvins.
@@billalbion that depends on how your fuel rack is set up
@@annajeannettedixon2453 I think you mean governor which controls the rack. 44hp could not be made at 600rpm only 750. Look up the Kelvin book on line.
Starts on petrol but runs on diesel? What kind of sorcery is this?
Beautiful
For an engine with this slow speed torque, surely it would have to drive a Huge prop!,& with no reduction gear!? What prop size?
81.4 L that is a huge engine
Lindsey Lariviere learn to read, 8 and 1/4 litres.
Great engine! This engine starts in January and only stops in December may be without diesel!!!Sorry my bed english.Tk.
Video starts at 2:00
I included the whole priming part just in case anyone wanted to know how it was done :)
I've been watching videos like this and was curious about the fuel efficiency, how many gallons per hour does this engine use during idle and cruise?
I dont have a clue - i know the engine has MASSIVE amount of torque and really low revs - I shall ask the owner next time i see him.
I'd appreciate that, I've been in transportation forever and really like engines of all kinds. I got turned on to this style of engine through a recommended video of a June Munktell powered fishing boat. So relaxing to listen to. Might get a boat with a low speed diesel just to unwind. Thank you for the response.
We used to own fishing boats and one,a 65 ft vessel had a lister JP 6 which at working speed would sometimes only consume 1 gal. per hour. We could calculate fuel use because the engine had a day tank where fuel used during the day could be observed. A lot of these engines are similarly economical.
I am told this engine is 22 BHP Using the formula BHP x .055 = gallons per hour in US Gallon. There are 1.25 US gallons in 1 imperial gallon. That gives us 1.2 US Gallon. Knowing how little power it takes to keeping a narrow boat moving it is likely they use something around 1/2 a imperial gallon an hour cruising.
@@Femmpaws thank you for the response. My trucks would consume a gallon US per hour at idle and 10 per hour loaded ( or more ) at speed.
Did it even get running on it’s own before the video stopped?
Its running in this video. It starts on petrol and then switches over to diesel
It's what they call a "hit and miss" engine. They fire a few times, then coast a few strokes, the hit a few times.
😍😍😍
Presumably you still own the narrow boat this engine lives in I have seen another video done by " Cruising The Cut " and his engine is a wee bit easier to start than yours as his is equipped with an electric starter. Not that you don't start her easily but we are all getting older and pushing a button instead of manually cranking her over may make you feel better. Cruising The Cut videos has three videos about classic old engines like yours in a proper engine room. Do you still hand crank your car? Time to consider installing a electric starter. Other than the starter all you really need is a geared flywheel.
Merry Christmas!
Cheers!
James Shanks it’s not my boat - mines not as cool as this
James Shanks it does have electric start I think - but it was disconnected at the time of filming
Engines like those are likely more about nostalgia then ease of use. Like a status symbol. Otherwise I would guess that a conversion to a modern diesel engine would have been done. It’s very cool in my opinion.
Crank on and cheers!
Jeremy Kamel this actually looks like a newish boat judging by the steelwork. Likely it was constructed with the intention of installing a classic showpiece engine. Conversion was never a consideration!
Gosh - It looks like it be;ongs in one of them WW1 tanks
Comes to something when you need to have a sit down and a cuppa between the priming and start phases!! Its nice, but who can be arsed with this!! :-D
There is a starter motor fitted - but hadn’t been hooked up at the time of filming.
It’s definitely a gorgeous thing though!
Well, I for one could be arsed with this, its a beautiful piece of engineering.
M.....i could just sit there looking at it with me cuppa without even starting it!
men...real men
Beautiful engine but the electronics to the right don't quite fit the picture!
Best engine start I've found so far is this one: th-cam.com/video/yPzubVpLYAc/w-d-xo.html
what an advert ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for yanmar.
I’ve fitted a few Yanmars - They’re very good - but souless
if thats soul , ill take an electric start button every time ,,,
ottis reading was soul , thats torture.
@@tomthompson7400 different strokes for different folks👍
I do love yanmar...
did you not read the text in the post fool its a1942 engine simple and reliable for when men were men and not little annoying spotty faced soyboys
Why didn't they simply make the cylinders smaller and make it an even firing three cylinder-silly design.
Because you would reduce the overall torque low down - while increasing the rpm for the desired output.
also - its a 1942 engine. what are you expecting?
If you knew propeller torque curves, you'd know that low end torque isn't necessary since propeller horsepower consumption is the highest at the highest RPM. But having a 1942 engine is unique. Give me a modern 3 cylinder water cooled engine that you simply turn a key to start.
@@Tchristman100 Quite presumptuous about what I know and what I don't know - but thanks anyway. I'd love to stay and chat - but I'm a busy engineer and not an armchair youtube critic
@@deffojeffo well said👍
Big old two lung thumper. Around the same time this engine was designed International Harvester had a number of large diesels that also started on gas then switched over to diesel. Thanks for sharing the video and seeing the old beast being started and running.
That rings a bell! In 1970 I knew a farmer who had an IH crawler tractor that he started on petrol then switched to either kerosene or diesel ... I can't remember which ... to carry on. It was a bullet-proof engine that, typically for much farm machinery, received only very basic maintenance, yet went and went and went ... left outside in all weather of course!
We had two John Deere "Johnny Poppers" that could start on gas (petrol) and switch to just about anything runnier than lard once they warmed up. But they were spark-ignition engines on all fuels, not diesel.
They did blow smoke rings when burning kerosene, which we thought was pretty cool.
I've been around a ten or so of those crawler tractors. A couple were really big too. Saw two of those engines set up as gensets and one driving a sawmill.