Grief Should Have Been Banned l Unsleeved Podcast #28 l Magic: The Gathering Podcast MTG
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ก.ย. 2024
- There was a pretty big B&R announcement Monday by WotC but one card in particular was left off of it...
Cedric and Patrick go over why Grief should have been banned in Modern and what to expect moving forward
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Credits:
Directed by: Jonathan Choi
Produced by: Cedric Phillips and Jonathan Choi
Edited by: Jonathan Choi
Written by: Cedric Phillips and Patrick Sullivan
Graphics by: Ray Dill
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Thank you for mentioning how fantastic of a job Gavin does giving us an explanation about pauper ban, like he actually cares. Every single player is envious of that level of care and transparency for every single format.
My take is that R&D has put too many eggs in the basket of creature ETB's to deliver their key chase cards. While simultaneously printing almost zero maindeckable effects that counter/punish creature ETB's. Evoke elementals are just a symptom of a larger systemic problem. You want more evidence, see Atraxa, Grand Unifier, the new Etali, Bowmasters, etc. as other 2023 chase staples that have comically over the top effects upon entering.
I’m actually SO suprised that grief AND orcish bow masters missed the ban lol.
Thankfully too cause i got a playset of OBM at 30$ a piece for NM looked on TCG today and they r like 50$ smh got them in time lol...
They’re hoping Fury will be enough. It makes the developers and designers look bad to ban cards.
Orcish Bowmasters is just because LOTR is still “on the shelves”, best selling set of all time. Can’t bite the hand that feeds.
Regardless of any feelings on Grief itself, this is such a good nuanced take from Patrick. I've seen tons of people talking about their reactions to the bans, whether they agree with it or not, why or why not. I haven't heard a single person talk about this concept of messaging and how it affects the emotional reaction of people. A+ content here folks.
I can't stop coming back to this video. It was so elegant, salient, and unfortunately prophetic.
because it was mentioned, a huge shoutout to Pauper - it's by far my favorite format to play. Tons of cool cards, new and old, and interesting matchups and gameplay patterns
They’re definitely going to have to ban grief, it’ll probably get more attention now without fury
The “they’re just going to switch to Orzhov scam” line reminds me of the Pauper Initiative bans. Gavin and the Panel said we’re banning all the 4-drop initiative creatures because of lotus petal+dark ritual starts, and we’re banning Underdark Explorer (the 5-mana black one) because we could wait to see how this shakes out, we kinda already know where this is going: either turn 1 off of double ritual, or just on turn 2 which is still too fast for the format
Scaxes was legit deck already for many months, bosh n roll put a good result with it long ago
Patrick: Once you're in that world...
Me: i was isekaid to a world where nobody is happy with the banlist
THANK YOU!!’ Grief is much more oppressive than people want to admit. Such a sucky card that creates non-games on TURN ONE without giving you an opportunity to respond. 😡😡😡
You take out Fury and then Scam as a deck falls apart. Who wants to run 8+ reanimate spells when Grief is the only target. But totally agree the 'not talking about Grief' was a weird take by Wizards. You statement of Dark Rit, Thoughtseize, Hymn, 4/3 Menace... yup, it's horrible for Magic in general. They should have just errata'd the Evoke mythics.
The deck only played 6 to begin with, but even still the undying effects aren't awful on their own, it still has synergy with Dauthi and is good against non white removal. I don't think scam is that bad, it just has to play actual removal spells now (while still having the awful grief undying experience)
who wants to run all those reanimate spells when fury is the only target, at least banning grief reduces the number of unfun games being played.
This aged like milk lolol
Having just found a steal of a price on a borderless foil version for my Commander deck, I'm glad it wasn't banned.
My favorite time in Magic was when Vendilion Clique and Tarmogoyf were the best creatures in the game.
The last decade of cards have demolished the first 20 years of fun card design
I mean that was at the beginning of intentionally restructuring design around creature spells rather than non-creature spells. Of course nearly 20 years since those cards would have to be powercrept out of viability.
@@TheEvolver311 "of course"
I disagree. The whole point of a standard rotation is to keep the power level in the same spot
Agreed
@@ZackeroniAndCheese not actually that has never been the point of Stsndard rotation
I do think there is a big enough difference between the play patterns of fury and bowmasters to justify banning only fury. Fury (especially flickered) directly punishes wide boards of small creatures of various sizes, whereas bowmasters only knocks out a single x/1 unless you are doing other things. Bowmasters probably keeps in check the right kind of deck; mainly ones that spin their wheels with lots of cantrips and card draw, creating long turns, and can be more easily accounted for when building creature decks.
Now as for Grief, I have no idea why they didn’t ban that pos. Play pattern is miserable every time. I’ve been saying it for years, but I think both modern play design and ban considerations need to be more empathetic to the play experience of both players when considering cards. Way too many cards that are fun to play, but miserable to play against, are making their way into formats.
Its fun when you eat out two crashing footfalls. Or die to that ? Bowmasters is fine. Grief is doing work against temur rhinos. Just about the only thing that stops it. Or i can eat rhinos and then solitude and ephemerate, losing a card and a casting one.
I stopped playing Modern due to Modern Horizons. These sets are, to me, against the appeal of the entire format.
There's a big difference between "Wow, look at all the combos and synergies you get from mixing these cards designed a decade apart" and "Wow, look at this combo designed by WOTC that they intentionally put in this format."
And, based on MTGTOP8's metagame breakdown, at least 40% of the metagame is decks playing Modern Horizons cards that would cease being decks were these sets removed. As in, their strategy is based on playing Horizons cards and would cease to be competitive if these cards didn't exist. That really bugs me and it takes away a lot of fun.
Finally someone gets it
Grief seems very fun for the Grief player.
Is this show not on Apple Podcasts?
its a patreon exclusive show
Didn't they mention awhile ago that they wanted to reduce the number of non-games a turn 1 Grief/Fury from Rakdos Evoke produced? You said it yourself, Turn 1 Fury is usually just a really good creature that can be dealt with before it kills you; Grief destroys your hand. I think they were too focused on banning cards in both Rakdos Evoke and 4C Omnath, so they just banned Fury because it goes in both, and that's why they also banned Beanstalk, even though banning Fury makes Beanstalk a bit worse. Banning Grief and Bowmasters makes both Rakdos and Orzhov Evoke worse, to the point that they're just not good enough, and banning Fury as well then makes aggro much better, and aggro should be good against the slower 4C Omnath deck, especially with Fury banned.
Oh and wrenn and six should be banned as well, it allows people to create mana bases that they otherwise shouldn't, also ban the triomes onto that as well as people for some reason are able to too easily make 5 color mana bases, the fetches will never be banned because they serve as reprint equity.
There are a lot of needed bans. But I would start with all supplementals sets.
you are completely insane and will never be in charge of any important decisions w/r/t magic
You mean like how the format was before they started arbitrarily rotating it? Wow, if only WotC could have such a novel idea.
@@cameroncorrado3935 absolutely
@@cameroncorrado3935I mean WotC actually pushed against making supplemental products for Modern and it was from the vast majority of Modern players pushing for them to produce sets that circumvent the requirement for cards to entire via standard only that lead them to create the MH sets.
@@TheEvolver311 I don't personally remember there ever being such an outcry from Modern players, but even if there was, I doubt that they were hoping the format to turn into the rotating one we see today, where at least 50% of their cards are rendered obsolete by each new iteration of a Horizons product.
The ban should have been grief, beans, and violent outburst. Fury was a HUGE miss.
Instant speed cascade is just ridiculous. Getting rid of beans and outburst makes it REALLY hard to justify and support fury outside of 4c. Even then, 4c likely goes back to running 2 copies at most and that’s about it. No one is running RB or WR just to scam fury.
Grief has a horribly unfun play pattern. Getting rid of grief makes scam unplayable because undying becomes an off color cost.
Beans was just a dumb card that shouldn’t exist in modern.
Welp, grief’s gone
Wow someone who agrees with me
free cards have always been a problem, wizards doesnt care ... see phyrexian mana, delve, etc etc etc
someone put it into words i could not. Grief isn't fun. for all the fun that fury isn't if you want to punish creature decks there's a million ways to do it, how many 3 drop board sweepers are there in red, half a dozen modern playable white board wipes at 4, a handful of 2 for 1 effects at 2 and everyone in red, white, and black is already interacting with your board on turn 1. fury being gone doesn't make elves, goblins or humans betters it just makes the games a little longer while you creature decks sit in garbage time, grief is a miserable unfun experience for everyone.
Not banning grief and bowmaster is a mistake.
I'll never understand why WotC thought printing free spells would be a good thing. I'm all for more bans. Mistakes happen. They can't possibly predict which cards will be format warping. Its nearly impossible. The idea that having less bans, the better is ridiculous
Evoke is the problem. It needs a Companion level re-write.
Evoke was first printed on creatures in 2007. I'll give you a hint on what the problem is, and I don't think it's the 16 year old mechanic that has never been problematic before.
lets ban spitebellows just to be safe@@sslusky
This is easily the worst take on the MH2 Evoke cycle I have ever seen, so I'm really hoping it was a joke. But the fact you said 're-write' and not 'errata' makes me think you're serious, and that you've never heard of Mulldrifter
@@Scrimshaw_DuBois42I love me some mulldrifter. One of my favorite ever cards.