Measure a 45 Offset | Advanced Plumbing
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ม.ค. 2024
- Measure a 45 Offset | Advanced Plumbing
Dive deep into the essentials of plumbing with Measure a 45 Offset | Advanced Plumbing. This tutorial focuses on the crucial skill of measuring 45-degree offsets in plumbing, a fundamental technique every plumber should master. Whether you're a professional plumber or a DIY enthusiast, this video offers detailed instructions and expert tips on achieving precise pipe measurements and fittings. Enhance your plumbing skills and ensure accuracy in every project with this in-depth plumbing tutorial. Ideal for both experienced plumbers and those new to the trade, this video is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to perfect their plumbing practices with precision and professionalism.
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Thanks for watching! I'm Roger Wakefield, The Expert Plumber, and welcome to my channel. On this channel, it's ALL about plumbing. We play games, we experiment, and we have FUN here, talking and learning about all things plumbing!
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Love this man. It’s nice to see older guys try to get young guys involved in plumbing. It’s a great trade if you really take pride in your work because it really feels like art a lot of the time.
(𝖦𝗈𝗈𝖽 𝗆𝗈𝗇𝖾𝗒 𝗍𝗈𝗈)😂
Thank you so much. I have always loved this trade. All the trades really. But I think plumbing is the most amazing profession…
Im 24 and i always feel accomplished after work
Kids. This is a REAL social media influencer. This video is gold. Thank you for teaching us an important step in plumbing. True craftsmanship. Thank you Roger.
Glad you enjoyed it!
couple of clowns over here 🤣
If you do this on a construction site ,it will be your last day. Boss" wheres johnny?" Foreman" he spent 2.5 hours to run a 2" vent x 3' long
😂😂
I call it bs. Because these"smartguys" measure once cut 8 times and still short
I know many of them don't have enough fingerings toes to count them. Just like home owners that can do the job,they just don't have the time to do the own diy's
I really appreciate the time you take out of your day to gives us a little brain food
Facts this is for the test they make it more difficult than it is time is money on the field.
Roger just wanted to say thanks. Also 5 year commercial plumber. I started out with a guy that did no math but I can tell you that 9/10 times he got his cut without math. And he would always get compliments from everyone because he’s been doing it for long he could eye ball
as a Plumbing contractor of 23 years, I just use the old school method, "eyeball it" I'm good enough at my profession to do that! have never used the formula since I took the plumbing test! great video non the less! All apprentices need to know how to do the math too! 😁👍
Right on, where you ever taught how to use the formulas? While eyeballing does work for most people...I think it's a good foundation that everyone at least knows the formulas
@@RogerWakefield I have always (or almost always ha) use the formula. I was taught to memorize what 1.4 times 2 through 9 is. 1.4 is close enough unless you are welding. That way, you can do the math in your head. If eyeballing it works for ya, more power to ya. Just know that the numbers don't lie.
Here we go again having yet another plumber with zero confidence blowing his own horn to let the world know that "YOUR THE MAN".
@@RogerWakefieldyou have to tilt your head a little bit for the eyeball method lol.
I love the “it’s ok it’s in the wall.”😂
I hope they don't pay u in hours
Great vid, teaches how it works AND why it works, a MUST for a tradesman even though it may be eyeballed most of the time.
Okay, I can certainly apply the Pythagorean Theorem to calculate the length of the center to center offset for both. Let’s back up and refigure the two 45 degree ells first. We have to visualize a right triangle in the stud bay to visualize it. Go to 8:30 in the video and then superimpose the horizontal tape measure visually and you will see a triangle. That is a 45-45-90 right triangle and can even be drawn in the stud bay with pencil to make it easier to explain.
We know the length of the tape measure side is 12”. We will call that side A and by definition the other leg of the triangle (which is mostly covered by 2” vertical PVC on the right that is about to be cut off) must also be 12”. There’s our A and B sides and the center to center length of the diagonal pipe (plus a bit of fitting on either end) is C, our hypotenuse.
Apply the Theorem. A squared plus B squared equals C squared. 144” + 144” = 288”. C squared equals 288, so find the square root of 288 for the length of the diagonal, which is 16.97”. That is closer to 17 by a hair, but we could call it 16 31/32” to split the difference and be very close. Subtract off the 1 1/2” from both sides for the fitting and that pipe is cut a smidge shorter than 14”. Same result different paths.
Go back to that same imaginary triangle to get our difference in height. That leg of the triangle is 12”. Add 1 1/2” fitting allowance on both sides to get an extra 3” and there is your 15” vertical difference. Figuring that part is tremendously easy now.
To solve the problem of a two 22 1/2 degree fittings making the offset go back to 8:30 on the video. That 45 degree angle between the two pipes that form the bottom of the triangle is now bisected. What that does is the pipe travels half as far to the left in that 12” vertical, so the vertical leg must be doubled to bring the diagonal all the way over 12”. This makes it an inconsequential 22 1/2 - 67 1/2 - 90 degree right triangle, but what is important is understanding A still = 12” and now B = 24”. Square those both and add them together for 720 = C squared. The square root of 720 is 26.8328”. A 16th of an inch equals.0625 so we are just a hair over 26 13/16” total. With 11/16” fitting allowance for the 22 1/2 degree ell on both sides, I am thinking that piece of 2in PVC needs to be cut a hair over 25 5/8”.
Anyway that’s my Euclidean Geometry offset math because remembering the Pythagorean Theorem is easier than memorizing trigonometry coefficients. Admittedly we weren’t allowed to use calculators on the exam so that means squaring the multiple choice answers and comparing them to the C squared calculation on scratch paper if you aren’t good at pulling square roots out of your hat.
The 1/6 bends are even easier to figure because a 30-60-90 right triangle is also called a 3-4-5 right triangle and it makes figuring out lengths a matter of ratios and that can be done in your head without thinking about square roots.
And for the bored silly folks I lost with that one, two words: exploding piñata
I'm with you, that's how I did it doing pipefitting with my grandfather. You can do it that way or figure out the hypotenuse by doing adjacent (12in) x 1/cos(45°) [where the 1.414 number comes from]. That should spit out 12 * ( 1 / ( sqrt(2) / 2 ) ) aka 12 x ( 2 / sqrt(2) ) which comes out to 24 / sqrt(2) or 16.971
Not sure if everyone has a calculator that can do sin, cos, tan, etc on the job site, though..
Hoping people know where the 1.414 number comes from now.
I used that same logic when figuring an offset with 22.5s. Though it seems logical, this isn’t the correct length of pipe you’d need. The constant for figuring a 22.5 offset is 2.613, which gives you 31.356, subtract 11/16 for fittings and you’re looking at roughly 30-5/8.
After scratching my head on it a while, I realized even though you’re doubling the angle, it doesn’t double your rise.
@@jordanchaplin1334 Thanks for setting me straight if you’re right. I’ve been wrong before and I will be wrong again. It’s been four months so I don’t care enough to double check it. I was just being a know-it-all because the jerks at massage school put me in the remedial class and fed me test answers. It was an insult to my intelligence therefore the online persona overcompensated-which is better than mowing a bunch of people down.
More practical videos like this please.
GREAT JOB!! As a union journeymen plumber in chicago who didnt take the whole 5 yrs to get state license i was taught the first 6 months of apprenticeship the formulas for all offsets. My instructor use to call ppl that eyeballed measurements clowns and would roast them. For the ppl that say you'd be fired for doing math obviously dont know how to do math because while your eyeballing fitting to fitting ive figured out every cut piece just by pulling measurements. But each their own i understand some may not be mathematically inclined but keep up the great videos mr. Wakefield im sure your helping alot of ppl
Was that instructor frank from the 130 school?
@@jakekennedy9161yep uncle frank probably one of the smartest ppl I've ever meet
@courtneyelkins2366 are you still in Chicago... im always looking for a good plumber.
You could eyeball it, screw up, do it again to do it twice to fix it and still be done faster than this guy! A chain vise for PVC, give me a break!
@beingmoody7577 yes I'm still In Chicago
I'm a plumber in NC and I have never seen this method i will try it it next time i come across a 45° vent situation. I love your videos Mr.Wakefield.
Once you learn and practice plumbing with math, it really speeds the job up. You can use it a lot of different ways, with a lot of different fittings.
I'm not a plummer, but I've known a lot of very good turd wranglers in my life. Without watching the video I wrote down 13 3/4". My thinking was 12 squared plus 12 squared equals 288. And 17 is the squareroot of 269, Acouple of things I've know for nearly 50 years. Then my guess was the fittings would take up about 3" subtract that from the 17" minus a little more and you will be close. "CLOSE ENOUGH CONSTRUCTION" As far as the 22.5 degrees I'd need my framing square and figure it like a rafter. BTW I a vintage carpenter and will check more of your videos.
2.6 multiplier. Great video!
Much appreciated. Thank you for sharing.
My pleasure! Is this how you measure an offset?
@RogerWakefield I'm new school, but apparently, I've been doing it old school the entire time. 😅
Solid video, reminds me of the journeyman i was taught under, plumbing since he was 13 as his uncles were both plumbers, guy use to be spot on with eyeballing measurements made it look easy lol
Been using this trick now since this video came out. I do central vacs, not plumbing, but this situation definitely applies. Even down to the dimensions of the tubing fittings. It definitely goes quite fast when you’re just doing it and not explaining.
I had done a small offset about a year ago in my laundry room to modernize the plumbing to in-wall laundry box faucets and drain. I had used Roger's method to do the offset correctly- most difficult part was finding the offsets at the HD.
an oscillating tool works great for cutting 1-1/2" pipe in tight spaces, I use mine all the time! if they made longer blades it would work on Bigger sizes of PVC pipe!
Nice tip!
Awesome, plumber here and I forgot how to do a 45 offset using 1.41. I’ll probably end up using it now to make those 45s crisp and less room for error. I’m used to eyeballing now but always trying to improve
Good info thank you for the video.
This was a great video for basic Plumbing. I think you should also put one out there of how to properly use the transmission and motor switch on a sewer machine to send and retract the line properly. Many people buying the snake inside the drum just an idea.
Good info.
Thanks! Are you an eyeballer or a math genius?
I am old school and was taught math early on as well as marking locations and dropping a plumb line and snapping chalk lines. Then adding fittings and drilling hangers. To be a good plumber you need to spend about 4 years in all types of plumbing and then pick which one to stick with or do like we did and just do all of it
Are u gonna have to cut travel piece and and glue this for journey man test or just find the offset with the 1.41 equation
The chicago license exam we had to do a rolling offset using math only,, a regular 45 set that isn't to log you can use a square edge say 12" mark 12 one way And 12" the other wayand measure 2 end points minus your 2 take offs for 1/8 bends
2.613 been a plumber for 5 yrs
So we had a bathroom bulit in our basement with standup shower and sink All run into sani flo upflush macerator toliet. We had about year now and just bad smell figured was building up in macerator. I looked at sani flo Descaler and it’s $70 for gallon 2 uses. So I been buying Zep Calicum lime remover $20. But it deff helps but still a smell I put my nose in toliet and shower don’t smell it. Where could it be coming from?
I learned i am oldschool from this video lol. Spent 10 years plumbing in the oilfield if eyeballing ia good for 10kLbs of pressure. Its gooding enough for drain line. If things pool or siphone throw a brick on it or under it lol.
I use a stick rule. It gives you the hypotenuse. Then you just gotta do the fitting take off. Stick rule is the best.
For all that's curious. He used 1.41 because that's the secant of theta 45 degrees..... If you have a different angle that needs to be made, use your calculator and type in that degree of angle you want then the (sec) button. The number you see you then multiply by your, "center to center" measurement.
I would use the 1.41 equation when running an offset in larger size pipe or if I was working with cast iron, its much easier that way. But I never bother with 1/16” increments
do American plumbers not have fitting handbooks ? Up here in Canada we get given a book in our first year of plumbing that outlines the throw, pressure ratings ID.OD and engagement of any plastic, black iron, welded , copper, plastic pipe ect I know this as i just today finished my first bout of plumbing school.
It’s time companies make rotary lasers, with an 45 angle option. We do a lot of concentric piping for gas boilers. Those pipes have different beginning and ends. We made a bracket/adapter to fit on the gas boiler pipe-end, so the laser is centred. So we can measure mid-air to our exit point. We made a table/formula to calculate how much pipe we need to ‘add’ for a specific rice of height. The laser produces 2 centre lines, perpendicular to each other. It works fast and precise.
Good video sir,you could use a metal cutting blade instead of that wood blade, will cut a lot smoother.
Definitely a good way to figure out the length for that offset but realistically you'd only do this if you were an hourly worker. Like Roger showed, the first way is way faster and usually just fine😄
Rolling offset 45 x1.414
22-1/2" x 2.613. Honestly this is more for pipefitters. Its good information to know but In the time it takes to make the calculation and execute, I could have completed job.
There is a reason why you need these calculations. You need the proper amount of air per cubic foot to vent a drain RIGHT
It's not a rolling offset bud. It's a 45° offset. You need a whole other mathematical equation to figure a rolling offset. A offset just changes width along the same plane. A rolling offset changes in width and elevation. Nice attempt at trying to flex though.
That formula also works on sheet metal 45 * elbow , been using this formula for years on duct ells !!
Great idea for an educational video brother. I hear this question all the time.
But I'm old school. You lost me when you pulled out the tape measure and started talking math.
😂 just kidding 😂
Great video! 2.61
I thought I was gonna learn something. I’ve used the eyeball it method since I started plumbing and will be sticking to it.
Man I just close my lazy eye and make the cut like I’m pulling the trigger
How often does that work for ya? 😅
I use this to find where to start a wye so its diagonal lands perfectly at a fixture or stack that's at the end of that section. If you're really good at this, it makes a big underground so fun. Other guys are using more fittings... guessing at perfection... never quite hitting it. While I'm smoking them by slamming waste and vent groups fast and clean and tight as a gnats ass... ah, good times 😊
I also use this to turn a horizontal 45° ell right before a closet bend... if I know the offset distance I can Calc backwards and add the fitting take off to land the 45
Tits on a Ritz
Im a service guy just got my journeymen license and went to commercial. This week was my first time doing top out and my work looked better than the commercial guys I just work a bit slower. I have more knowledge than them and they hate it. This week I’m moving to the finish crew
I’ll just stay eyeballing it thanks
3 weeks to rough in a 2 bathroom house with this pace lol
That's how hourly guys get their money
lol that is one way of looking at it. thank you for your videos roger! i have learned alot, and applied the knowledge to my business.@@RogerWakefield
You should do a plumbing school channel, I bet it would be hugely popular
@5:23 Roger, I'm runnin' circles around ya with the Reed DEB4! I quit packing files in my tool caddy after getting one.
Thank you so much for this comment. I've been looking for a tool like that for so long.
Its not cheap, but I have used it every day on every cut of PVC for the past 6 months . Then I hit the inside with a pencil deburrer, and everything glues up way nicer.@@23tracy91
An old school plumber would already have that cut and glued before you did any of those calculations. And it would have looked good too! If you do a lot of rough ins and top out its quicker to "eye ball" it. I have seen this method a long time ago, but I just didn't use it.
Same mulitipliers we use for conduit offset.
What app are you using sir? 4 year apprentice and taking my journeyman test at the end of this month
Its called tech tools on the app store...its a red and black circle
The answer to your question regarding the 22.5 degree angle is 1.08 x the horizontal distance, assuming like the physicist says that it is really a 90 + 45, or 90 + 22.5 angle in this case. The angle that we are computing from is the horizontal, and thus we can subtract 90 and work with either 45, or 22.5..The right triangle trigonometry approach from my high school days is: We know the horizontal distance, which is 12, and we know the angle down from the horizontal, 22.5. We want to know the length of the hypotenuse. The cos 22.5 = the adjacent over the hypotenuse. Solve for the hypotenuse. Multiply both sides by the hypotenuse, and divide by the cos 22.5. This will yield 1.08 times the adjacent. The vertical drop from the horizontal will be computed from the Tan 22.5 = opposite(vertical side) divided by the horizontal. Multiply both sides by the horizontal, and the vertical = horizontal times tan 22.5, or .4142 times the horizontal.
I would call it geometry and the simplified version pythagorus theorem when an and b are equal. So basically take the length and multiply by sqrt of 2 which is 1.4.
The length is 10? The length you cut is 10 * 1.4 = 14.14 or about 14 1/8.
I got lost when you measured the hubs. So horizontal offset is 12", and vertical is 16"? What was the 2 1/2" and 1" make up hubs?
Eyeball and dry fit. Then grasshopper measure center to center and subtract takeoff/makeup.
Eyeballing gets it for me every time 😂 25 years strong
for the record, I googled hypotenuse ratio on a 22.5, 90 triangle
I knew it was a ratio of angles, which could also be applied with sin but I did it the lazy way
1/sin22.5 degrees
Your answer is correct, if you are multiplying by the vertical distance shown in the video, and then the multiplier is 2.613, however we don't know the vertical distance. I believe the the question was based on the horizontal distance between the two pipes, then the answer is 1.08, or (1 divided by the cos 22.5) times the horizontal distance between the pipes.
Measure the horizontal run. Take that number + 1/2 that number & add it. The nearest whole # go back that many 16ths.
Can you use a laser of some sort?
Ok, how do you do a 22.5?
You need to do it this way, say you’re working in a sewer treatment plant and it’s 36 inch pipe, then you absolutely have to do it this way
Find C2C x 1.414 whatever number that is subtract your fittings thats your cut length, thats basic pipe fitting, constant moving rate of 45 degrees is 1.414
I’m sure you know that the offsets and cut sheets are in the code books
Great way to doit right, What's the app name?
I wish I knew this the first time I did a water main offset. Eye balling 12" water main 10' down in the ground doesn't work the best.
Guessing it works the same when going from a horizontal to vertical piping?
Where did the 1.41 come from. What would it be for a 22, 90, 60... just curious
If you have a square that is 1" by 1". The diagonal measuring is about 1.414". If you find the square root of 2 on a calculator, you will get the exact number.
So if you have to travel horizontally by 1", or by 16.5", or by 7', you just multiply your horizontal measurement by the factor 1.414.
If you're a carpenter who cuts roof rafters, a hip or valley rafter are always thought to be sloped at x (x is whatever your roof slope is- 4, 6, 8, 12 are all common roof slopes) in 17. A normal roof rafter would be sloped at 4/12, but the hop rafter that fits that roof is 4/17. That's because 1.414 times 12 is 16.97, or almost 17. So for a carpenter who doesn't use a calculator, cutting your common rafters at 4/12 and your hips or valleys at 4/17 works very well.
The rafter example assumes the hip is a "regular" hip, not a bastard hip. Google that if you want, but it's a bit far afield from answering your question.
Thank you. Helps to know how the number got its place rather than " this is what" on a video
the most impressive part of this vid was that straight sawzall cut... rogers a freaking laser
Teach about rolling offset
Done it
How do you get 1.41? I did not figure out how you came up with that number.
It's the square root of two. The decimal goes on infinitely like pi, so we just use 1.414
We call the measurement technique 'Leading edge to leading edge' in the electric business.
👍👍
If the multiplier for 45 degrees is 1.41 then the multiplier for 22.5 degree should be .705, no?
If pvc pipe cost the same as solid gold pipe, this would make sense, but it’s just pvc if it’s a little long trim it, if it’s short cut another, use the piece somewhere else. Also use a chop saw, smooth clean cuts every time.
I believe it’s 2.613 for 22 offsets
I just take my two 45s line em up with my eagle vision havent been wrong since. Could be off like 1/32” maybe, but hey whats that. I was blessed with eagle eyes.
A gift very few have ever received
Rog..Where does the 1.41 come from?....Please.
RMS, or root mean square, the square root of 2.
Easy way to do this glue your 45 on and a long enough piece running to the other pipe. Once you get that done cut the other pipe to fit into hub and your done
Plumber go broke havin to go thru all these steps. Kinda dig at us "old plumbers"
The math might seem onerous for a 2” chunk of PVC, but it it’s an 8” cast iron rain drain and it’s 20 feet in the air, doing the math makes a lot more sense.
Just dry fit and dont cut too short and that will make eyeballing easier
And meanwhile the rest of us made 3, maybe 4 cuts, fit it and are half way through the next task
Why not dryfit a section of pipe to the 45 you had in your hand and mark directly on the pipe where you needed to cut instead of eyeballing. That also avoids the triple checking with the tape measure. Marking directly on the parts is typically the faster and more accurate way to cut to size.
Eyeball is best
2.6
22.5 COSECANT is 2.6
There's usually a formula for everything, but realistically nobody's going to use it. Good demo though, Eyeball city and 9/10 you're good.
That app he just gave us is = to a collage textbook 📕
This Electrical apprentice who loves bending emt pipes says the multiplier for 22.5 offsets is 2.6
Where does 1.41 come from?
FOUND IT: If you have a square that is 1" by 1". The diagonal measuring is about 1.414"
It is the cosecant of the angle
To find an angles cosecant divide 1 by the sin of the angle
1÷(sin)45° = 1.414
Try it with a 22½
1÷(sin)22.5° = 2.613
Cosecant for 30° = 2
This isn't advanced plumbing this is level one shit 😂
Just thinking, you and Collin Furze need to do a video together.
I would love to make an invention for him!
U literally did the look at the end of this lolol I get the split measurement tho
2.82.
2.6 couldn't get to the comment section quick enough. Electrician though (king of the trades) we bend our pipe though, none of this cut to fit nonsense lol
If there ever comes a day you wanna join a real trade, I’m sure some plumbing company out there will gladly give you a shot. Just (we tell all sparkys’ this) please, 🙏 please.. leave your Ryobi tools and your murse at home. Have a blessed day, Mr. 99c store executive club card holder!
🎉👏🏼 🎉👏🏼 🎉
Ain't got no table either boss on the site lol
Pythagorean theorem kids. Your high school teacher couldn’t give you any practical application for trigonometry because that high school teacher had no life experience to relate a curriculum lesson to real life. A2+b2=c2. It’s that simple to get that hypotenuse.
0.70
0.414
You sound very proud of yourself 😂 but I guess that's Chicago
2.61